Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Mathius]

Hook and Rumple/Gold (I don't have a clue what to call him anymore) fight on the deck of the JR. Dark Swan puts Rumple through the paces to make him "brave", and I wouldn't even put it past her that she conjured up that massive bear.

 

I'm fairly sure Hook fights Gold to protect Emma, since Merida's last line in the recent episode reveals that she's intending on making Gold a hero so that he can turn against Emma and take her on.

 

It just seems that whatever Emma may have been hell bent in not seeing happening in Camelot may have come to pass in Storybrooke, so she's essentially done everything for nothing.

 

That'll be the tragedy, I bet: she embraced the darkness to protect Hook, and it's ultimately because of that and all that she does afterward that the very thing she was trying to prevent happens.

[RadioGirl27]

So now we are taking a paparazzi's theory as if it came from A&E themselves, OK then. I mean, Hook sacrificing himself is the worst option, repetitive and unimaginative, so of course A&E are going to choose it, but Larry is just a paparazzi who likes to harass the actors, not someone who works on the show. He doesn't know everything that is going on.

 

And, really, Hook going to the underworld doesn't mean he is going to be the focus of the arc. The focus could be in the rescue party, with Colin appearing from time to time, or in the ones that stay behind, because no way they are all going in the rescue party.

 

And of course, no-one is gonna try a hand-holding ritual to get him out of it.  I swear to God, this show....

Well, of course not. He is not Regina. As season 4 finale showed, Hook dying would only affect Emma.

 

It just seems that whatever Emma may have been hell bent in not seeing happening in Camelot may have come to pass in Storybrooke, so she's essentially done everything for nothing.

Again, she is not Regina (or Rumple), so of course she (and Hook) are going to pay a price for what is happening this half season.

Edited October 26, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I'm fairly sure Hook fights Gold to protect Emma, since Merida's last line in the recent episode reveals that she's intending on making Gold a hero so that he can turn against Emma and take her on.

 

Agreed. I guess 5x10 will draw parallels from 5x06, when Gold is trying to protect and save Belle from the bear and Merida's arrows.

[mjgchick]

I'm rooting for Merida. Oop.

[OnceUponAJen]

Well, if Hook does end up "dying" the final scene between him and Emma is bound to be pure gold....heartwrenching stuff. I'm here for it!!

[Curio]

Well, if Hook does end up "dying" the final scene between him and Emma is bound to be pure gold....heartwrenching stuff. I'm here for it!!

 

Yep, all 23 seconds of it! #StillBitter

[Mathius]

 

Again, she is not Regina (or Rumple), so of course she (and Hook) are going to pay a price for what is happening this half season.

 

Actually, it is at least similar to Rumple, he did point out that his justification for most of his evil was to find his son, and that ultimately he ended up losing his son due to the circumstances that were set in motion by him reuniting with him.  

 

The only iffy thing here is, with both Neal and Hook, it's pretty unfair that someone's life has to be the price for someone else's misdeeds.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

Actually, it is at least similar to Rumple, he did point out that his justification for most of his evil was to find his son, and that ultimately he ended up losing his son due to the circumstances that were set in motion by him reuniting with him.  

 

The only iffy thing here is, with both Neal and Hook, it's pretty unfair that someone's life has to be the price for someone else's misdeeds.

But is it really misdeeds in Hook's case, or a choice that he makes? Neal made the same choice. He decided to bring his father back knowing there was a price to pay.

 

The biggest problem is that we have no idea what happened in Camelot, though I'm pretty sure Emma will see history repeating itself. If Hook makes the decision of sacrificing himself for Emma in Camelot, then he will make the same decision in Storybrooke when he figures out the sword, the scroll and everything else. 

[Serena]

I'm very curious for the Storybrooke filming tomorrow and Wednesday!

[Rumsy4]

I'm sort of disappointed that Excalibur is apparently broken again. The question is whether someone else (or Gold) is now the Dark One. What is the point of the arc if the Darkness is not defeated? Unless this is a season-long arc, and 5B will end with its final defeat, whatever that may be.

[LizaD]

 

That'll be the tragedy, I bet: she embraced the darkness to protect Hook, and it's ultimately because of that and all that she does afterward that the very thing she was trying to prevent happens.

 

I'm sure that's it but by the time we get to that point in the story it'll feel old and redundant. Like everything else on this show. Because we're seeing that play out right now. She's trying to get rid of the darkness in order to protect everyone and not lose them but trying to get rid of it is exactly what is costing her everything. Whatever went down with Hook in Camelot isn't going to be as climatic as I suspect they hope it will.

 

There's also Nimue? reappearing all glammed up Rump style. How does she fit in now and where's Merlin? Now I just want to see his pretty face but it feels pretty empty that he's not around when all this is going down.

 

Maybe Snow's bright idea is to send the DO to the underworld ala S2 when she wanted to send some apocalyptic bomb back to the EF to save Woegina. Only this time Hades get really pissed at them sending him their problem.

[Mathius]

What is the point of the arc if the Darkness is not defeated? Unless this is a season-long arc, and 5B will end with its final defeat, whatever that may be.

 

I'm pretty sure that's it.  The Darkness plot is like the Author one last season, it spans both story arcs.

 

I'm just glad Emma isn't the Dark One for both of them, that would have been tiresome.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Emma better have Archie on a retainer after this mess.

[retrograde]

I think the Hook underworld thing is a plausible theory, but still very much a theory at this stage that mostly holds up because we have so little info at all.

I don't recall many predicting Emma would become the Dark One until the dagger scene was filmed, but I do recall a whole bunch of crazy predictions people were "sure" of that didn't pan out.

[Rumsy4]

There's also Nimue? reappearing all glammed up Rump style. How does she fit in now and where's Merlin? Now I just want to see his pretty face but it feels pretty empty that he's not around when all this is going down.

I forgot about the spoiler about the female Dark One in Storybrooke filming scenes. Definitely seems like Nimue. Maybe she found a way to rebuild her body a la Voldy. But then why does Gold have the Dagger back?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

I don't recall many predicting Emma would become the Dark One until the dagger scene was filmed, but I do recall a whole bunch of crazy predictions people were "sure" of that didn't pan out.

 

I think some of us called it after 4x15 aired, but there was a quick shut down of that one. 

 

Emma better have Archie on a retainer after this mess.

 

I feel I need Archie.

 

I've been wondering if the actual visit to the Underworld won't be for the season finale.

 

Like Serena, I'm looking forward to Steveston.

[Souris]

It definitely looks like Emma has one of Hook's rings on a chain around her neck. I can imagine their hands being ripped apart as he's pulled away and his thumb ring slipping off into her hand.

 

Emma, Hook and an unknown woman filmed a scene together last Friday night. I'm guessing that whatever spell Gold does with the dagger (perhaps his blood is used because he's someone who died and came back) is used to allow Emma to communicate with Killian's spirit via the woman (Nimue? Persephone?). Since the TVLine spoiler (which I think may be about Hook) indicated it would look like the death is permanent, I'm guessing Unknown Woman tells them that there is no way to come back from the Underworld, so it's a goodbye scene between Hook & Emma. Very bleak cliffhanger!

 

I cry. The fandom burns the Internet to the ground over the hiatus.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Souris

[OnceUponAJen]

^It looks like his chain too. I don't remember Emma wearing a necklace that long before.

[mjgchick]

I don't recall many predicting Emma would become the Dark One until the dagger scene was filmed, but I do recall a whole bunch of crazy predictions people were "sure" of that didn't pan out.

A lot of people did after Hooks rant about wanting to stab Rumple with it and Emma said "then it would have your name on it." since then everyone assumed It would be Emma.

Haven't a lot fans theories come true for this show a lot. I remember when people speculated about Neverland before Pan was mentioned. And Camelot before Merlin was mentioned as well.

Emma has never warn a chain that long since taking off that Swan chain.

Edited October 26, 2015 by mjgchick

[pezgirl7]

^It looks like his chain too. I don't remember Emma wearing a necklace that long before.

 

Hook's chain really isn't that long though. photo

From the side it looks like it could be one of Hook's rings, but from the front, it doesn't.

[PixiePaws1]

wow...this thread exploded while I was asleep!

First. ..in Greek/Roman mythology 'sacrificing' to go to the Underworld didn't always mean you had to die to go there..Hercules and Persephone for example (I think she Demeter's daughter? ?). my guess Hook is trapped there but didn't actually have to die (wishful thinking? - maybe)

Second. ..RC always said he not interested in ever playing 'good' Rumple..at best he's going to be duplicitous.

Third..I am sure it is Killian's ring and it will be used like the baby blanket to locate through a portal/underworld.

[OnceUponAJen]

If Hook goes to the Underworld, I'm guessing it will be with Charon, if they're going to go full out Greek mythology. I don't think Charon cared if his passengers were dead or not as long as he was paid for the trip. It's been a while since I've read Greek mythology!

[PixiePaws1]

If Hook goes to the Underworld, I'm guessing it will be with Charon, if they're going to go full out Greek mythology. I don't think Charon cared if his passengers were dead or not as long as he was paid for the trip. It's been a while since I've read Greek mythology!

in most versions that is correct. they had to meet certain conditions if they weren't actually dead...

[tri4335]

My new crack theory is that Rumple has been manipulating Emma since the the 3B finale to get to the Underworld to free Neal.  He is using Emma and Hook's true love to get to his son just as he used her parents' true love to get to the LWM.  Rumple wants his son and to keep his power but we will find out that all of his schemes (hatting Emma, turning her dark) wouldn't work. He needed her to defeat the DO but somehow he will absorb the ability to keep doing magic without the complications of the DO essence.  He will also free his son from the Underworld and if Emma or Hook get stuck there, who cares as only his wishes matter.  Thus Emma can parallel her parents TL and Regina's life by being manipulated by Rumple. This is why they keep bringing up Neal in these episodes and it goes along with those who think that Rumple would never just take a memory potion to forget his son. I expect we will see some flashbacks to see how Rumple was slowly  moving his pawns to create the scenario he needed just as he did with the first curse.  Now the hole with my theory is who would he save Neal or Baelfire? And what would happen with Belle?  With all that said, chances are my theory is just bunk.

[LizaD]

 

The Darkness plot is like the Author one last season, it spans both story arcs.

But the Author wasn't the major storyline in both arcs. It was introduced then popped up again in the finale and whenever Woegina popped up to whine about her life which miracles of all miracles, wasn't every episode in 4A.

 

Here the DO is THE plot and the only plot going on. We're getting the first DO, why the DO existed, and the current and most recent former DO. I guess they could make it a B or C plot for 5B to even it out but it still feels a little cheated and probably would be tiresome to most by the time 5B rolls around, no matter who the DO is or isn't.

 

What's comparable to the Author is the Underworld thing, being introduced then we see it again in the finale. It does look like Hook goes to the Underworld but the only red flag is well how is that Woegina centric? We all know the Bs are all about her. Maybe they can split up. Hook and Emma and maybe Rump goes under, while Hades goes to Storybrooke. I'm only throwing Rump in there cause you just know Rumbelle have to be split up again. They're so allergic to writing those 2 together. I wish for the same affliction for Woegina and Emma.

[Souris]

My new crack theory is that Rumple has been manipulating Emma since the the 3B finale to get to the Underworld to free Neal.  ...  Now the hole with my theory is who would he save Neal or Baelfire? And what would happen with Belle?  With all that said, chances are my theory is just bunk.

 

Actually, the hole in the theory is that Michael Raymond-James is a regular on a midseason show for NBC.

[kili]

Has Belle been seen filming lately? Maybe she and Hook get sucked into the Underworld (she always gets to pay the price for Rumple) and that is why Rumple is helping the mission?

 

Having a number of characters sucked into the Underworld might be more interesting because they too will have something to do. Plus, it gives more people reasons to help. 

[mjgchick]

Yeah I think I rather have Hook and someone else lost in the Underworld than just Hook. It would make sense why people are actually trying to help find Hook or maybe the Charmings actually do care about the guy.

[YaddaYadda]

or maybe the Charmings actually do care about the guy

 

Even if they don't care about him, their daughter loves him, and he possibly just sacrificed himself to the Underworld so that she can go back to being who she really is. You have to be a special brand of ungrateful jerks to not care, or feel something. 

 

I know A&E are massive trolls, but the words they've been using, like Hook is "hell-bent", "come hell or high water"...and then there's that scene from 3x21-22 with Hook and David around the fire, when he tells David he'd go to the end of the world or time for Emma, but he isn't sure she'd do the same for him. Guess we're about to find out!

 

There's the line about Marian having Satan's spawn, and now Zelena is pregnant. Hook also told Emma he knew she always had a little pirate in her, so I'm gonna start preparing myself for this one, for when it becomes literal.

Edited October 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

I do think it likely for both Belle and Killian to have been drawn into the Underworld. Because there's no version of Gold that would help save Hook's life at this point. Maybe Belle was the Price Gold had to pay for becoming the Dark One again (if he is indeed). 

[Shanna Marie]

or maybe the Charmings actually do care about the guy.

Considering that they named their kid after the guy who knocked up and abandoned their teenage daughter, what will they have to do for the guy who's made so many sacrifices for her -- now apparently including his life, twice?

 

Though Emma may not give them much of a choice. She might apply a guilt trip.

[OnceUponAJen]

So, this scene with Killian possibly going to the Underworld would play exactly the opposite from the scene where Emma took on the darkness:

HOOK: Emma, please don't do this!

EMMA: Killian, please don't do this!

I really hope they don't ever get separated again after this.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I do think it likely for both Belle and Killian to have been drawn into the Underworld. Because there's no version of Gold that would help save Hook's life at this point.

 

I can't see them forming a storyline around Belle when the actress is pregnant. There are just too many things that can go wrong with that should Emilie become unavailable. I mean, they could freeze her into sleep for most of the arc, but they'd have to wake her up and rescue her at some point. And they'd need some kind of continued Belle sightings in dreams or whatever for Rumpel to show his sad face and get all motivated again. 

 

In terms of everyone's stories, I suppose we could have Emma/Gold questing to save Hook/Belle while Snowing, Regina & Robin stay in Storybrooke and deal with their children and the Zelena pregnancy.

[kili]

I can't see them forming a storyline around Belle when the actress is pregnant. There are just too many things that can go wrong with that should Emilie become unavailable.

They built a substantial story around Snow White when Ginny was pregnant. The in-show baby was key to the time-travel spell.

[Rumsy4]

I can't see them forming a storyline around Belle when the actress is pregnant. There are just too many things that can go wrong with that should Emilie become unavailable. I mean, they could freeze her into sleep for most of the arc, but they'd have to wake her up and rescue her at some point. And they'd need some kind of continued Belle sightings in dreams or whatever for Rumpel to show his sad face and get all motivated again. 

 

That might be easier with Belle in the underworld. Just put her in a frozen sleep in the Underworld. Shoot from waist up or hide her tummy with Underworld-fog to cover up the pregnancy for other scenes.

 

In terms of everyone's stories, I suppose we could have Emma/Gold questing to save Hook/Belle while Snowing, Regina & Robin stay in Storybrooke and deal with their children and the Zelena pregnancy.

 

That would be FANTASTIC. Separate the baby-drama and Snow/Regina bonding from the rest of the action! That way I can fast-forward all Storybrooke scenes.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Rumsy4

[retrograde]

Regardless of what happens with Hook or the underworld or whatever else, I'm inclined to think Belle isn't around just become she tends to not be around very much because the show doesn't have much to do with her. Honestly, she has barely been spotted filming all season long.

[KAOS Agent]

 

They built a substantial story around Snow White when Ginny was pregnant. The in-show baby was key to the time-travel spell.

 

Yes, but Snow wasn't important to the story. She could have been in the hospital on bed rest in story if they'd needed to explain her absence. They even wrote a finale that could have been put together without Ginny's participation at all if need be. That wouldn't be true of a Belle stuck in another realm with Hook. My thought is that Belle is very rarely used in the show as it is, so that works to their advantage if Emilie is unavailable. Why would you suddenly give her character a more important role when you know she'll be limited? She certainly won't be available for 14 hour shoots towards the end of the season. 

 

I am not at all happy with the idea that Rumpel is the Dark One again. So Emma's sacrifice was all for nothing and Rumpel gets all his power and a clean slate on his previously black heart? No, no, no. Not acceptable. This better be something different from that.

[Mathius]

I don't think he's the Dark One again.  If he is, I would rage pretty hard about it.

[retrograde]

If Rumple isn't the Dark One again, what are they even going to do with his character? The showrunners say he doesn't have magic on his own. So now he's just... some grandpa? That would be a waste.

[KingOfHearts]

 

If Rumple isn't the Dark One again, what are they even going to do with his character? The showrunners say he doesn't have magic on his own. So now he's just... some grandpa? That would be a waste.

I wish they'd just kill him off. Make him the price of destroying the Dark One or something. I couldn't imagine him living peacefully in Offscreenville with Belle, unless they moved to the Enchanted Forest. I'm very tired of Rumple's power grabs because they've been done to death. He makes heroes look dumb. (Especially Belle.) Here in 5A, he seems so superfluous. The whole needing-a-hero-to-pull-Excalibur is just a lame reason to keep him relevant.

[KAOS Agent]

I was wondering how if Emma has the dreamcatchers and is able to see everything like her parents being under the influence of sand, how is it that Jen said that Emma thinks her family did something to her in Camelot? She'd know. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Serena]

I was wondering how if Emma has the dreamcatchers and is able to see everything like her parents being under the influence of sand, how is it that Jen said that Emma thinks her family did something to her in Camelot? She'd know. 

When did Jen say that? Is it possible she had only read up to episode 4 at that point, and she assumed like we did that Snowing did something to her while sanded?

[KAOS Agent]

I thought she said something at NYCC, but the best I can find is an interview with Adam & Eddy from the premiere where they state that "Going forward, the big question will be what the group could have done to Emma — or what she thinks they did to her — to cause her to reject them so fully. And everyone will struggle with that," which makes my question more valid because they would have been deep into writing/editing the finale episodes at the time of the interview well past the dreamcatcher spying stuff.

Edited October 27, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[PixiePaws1]

Promo for 5x06.....

"find her and put an arrow through her heart...."

Do you think Emma would really let/make that happen???

I don't mean will it happen because we all know they aren't knocking Belle off ..but do you think Emma, would let it happen?? is she that lost to Darkness?

[Rumsy4]

Promo for 5x06.....

"find her and put an arrow through her heart...."

Do you think Emma would really let/make that happen???

Dark Emma seems quite ruthless, doesn't she? This looks like another tactic to make Gold "Brave". This is not the first time villains have used Belle to get at Rumple. Regina has done that several times, as did Hook. The QoD did that. Now Emma as well, apparently.

[mjgchick]

Dark Emma is a savage. lol I'm rooting for the bear...

[chrisvee]

Poor Emma. Nobody has to suffer like she does. :(

[Curio]

In Storybrooke, Regina, Mary Margaret and David discover the spell that would allow one of Merlin’s chosen to communicate with him, but when Arthur fails to reach the missing sorcerer the heroes grow suspicious.

 

How much do you want to bet that the twist at the end of the episode will be that Hook is accidentally able to communicate with Merlin?

 

Marco D’Angelo as Lord MacGuffin

 

Please be an actual plot MacGuffin...

Edited October 27, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Press Release for 506

Oh, poor Arthur can't catch a break! I feel sorry for the guy. You are not the chosen one, goodbye!

 

 

 

How much do you want to bet that the twist at the end of the episode will be that Hook is accidentally able to communicate with Merlin?

That'd be awesome, and it would confirm that Merlin is still alive.

 

It doesn't seem like Regina tells Snowing that Merlin was released in Camelot. Maybe they should go to his mansion and see if he's there chilling in front of the fire place in his comfy sweats and thick socks.

Edited October 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[sharky]

Does anyone get confused reading these press releases lately? "In Camelot... In Storybrooke... Meanwhile in Emma's house... In Misthaven which is really the Enchanted Forest... In DunBrogh... there's a bear." Ugh. Poor press release writers can't do much considering what they've been given by A&E.

 

I got really excited when I saw that David, Hook and Belle will run into Merida. What are the three of them doing together? Because whatever it is, I'm there for that. A Charming Captain Book bromance will definitely make up for whatever mess the rest of this episode will be.