Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Mari]

Why would you think that especially since they're going to the Underworld? I see Hook getting tons of screentime he's not just gonna be sleeping. I suspect he's wandering around the Underworld trying to find a way out and I think he reunites with his father in the closing moments of the finale. Makes so much sense especially when we know his father is introduced in the mid-season finale and is probably immortal but that's just a guess.

It would make sense.  But, well, it's TS,TW, and as well-liked as Hook is on this board and Tumblr, the show has a history of featuring him in the A block, often with Emma, and a giving his character a couple of centrics.  

 

He's been pretty prominently featured so far with the Dark Swan arc, and we know there are flashbacks coming, but have we seen any spoilers where his father is featured in current day?   It might happen, but this is the same show that introduced Belle's mother, with comments that indicated she would have a longer arc, and then featured Belle in pivotal scenes in the 4A finale, only to have Belle mostly disappear in the 4B arc.

 

Based on that, I think it's more likely that 5B will prominently feature Rumple and Regina, with the others playing varying amounts of supporting role.  While I'd really like them to shake up their previous patterns, I'm going to need more evidence before I believe they're ready to do it.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Mari

[PixiePaws1]

I am putting this here and not the actual spoiler thread because i think it might be coonsidered heresay rather than an officially verified spoiler. i just thought it could be of value. if you read the tweets that go with those photos of Emma and Gold and she is looking de-darked, there is a reply from the guy who i think took the photos. He wrote;

Idon't think so; I think there is no more Dark One and the darkness has been destroyed for good ... but not without cost

l don't know if this is just wild spec on his behalf or if he was close enough to hear any of the dialog...

Edited October 24, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Shanna Marie]

Well they're gonna find a way for him to go because he and Regina coming face to face with all their victims is gold.

And that's why it'll never happen. They don't even like to acknowledge that Regina and Rumple really have victims, especially not dead ones, and if they faced their dead victims with anything short of extreme remorse they'd look even more sociopathic than they are, but the writers always shy back from letting Regina especially feel at all bad about her past sins. As entertaining as it would be to see the mobs of their dead victims swarming over them, it's never gonna happen.

 

I'm not going to get too excited about any Underworld/Hades/#SaveHook plot based on the very few real facts we have.

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe it happens after Hook brought Cora's "body" to Regina. I rewatched the scene in "The Queen of Hearts", there might be some wiggle room for that. Or just before Regina sends Hook to Wonderland to kill her mother. As to why these particular memories have never been brought up before--simple. The writers just thought of it! Just like the million other plot points they have shoved into flashbacks. :-p

I keep thinking they're going to retcon that heart ripping potion. But it doesn't work, because she enchants the hook and sends him off in the same scene. Since she's wearing the same dress, it would probably have to be before that. There are possibilities, but it's still retcon-y.

I don't hate the idea of a Rumple/Regina arc in 5B. Mostly because anything would be better than that awful Author plot. It should explore, "Okay you're redeemed now. But you still need to confront your past and decide what you want to do now." Those characters need to move on into new phases. We get it, show. They're heroes now. But where do they go from there?

Edited October 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

*grumbles*

Here's to sticking with the 1% chance of Regina and Hook miraculously not sharing a flashback together, even if they're dressed in the same clothes. I'm fine with them interacting in the present, I'm just forever on Team No about them sharing flashback adventures other than the Cora stuff.

ETA: *something that gives me hope: regina's in the blue outfit, but we've only seen Colin in his standard pirate outfit (and not the one he wears when he goes to kill Cora). Granted, they could have filmed all their scenes in-studio and/or no one managed to see Colin in that outfit, or Hook changed outfits over the course of the day. Either way, let me dream. Let me dream.

The only way I'll possibly except it is if by the end of the adventure, we get a glimpse of Cora and she and Hook begin to enact her evil plan. Glorious Cora, I miss her so.

Someone pointed out on tumblr that the necklace Emma is wearing (while it could be a great many things, like one of Hook's rings) could also be the clover disguising necklace. I thought that was some fun speculation.

Edited October 24, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[pezgirl7]

I don't think Emma's necklace looks like one of Hook's bigger rings, but I guess it could be his thumb ring. It doesn't seem long enough to be Zelena's necklace, but its hard to tell from that blurry photo. I wonder if Colin parting his hair on the opposite side than he usually does means anything? Like maybe just a slight change that the audience wouldn't be able to put their finger on, but might still feel like something was different about him?

[KingOfHearts]

I could imagine Neal being trapped in the Underworld because death was the price of resurrecting Rumple, much like saving Robin. He could come back as someone scarred and changed by being there. I'm thinking sort of a demon-ish form, but much more cognizant than Daniel's zombie. That would spook Emma, Rumple and Hook. However, Dark Swan already did the whole "corrupted hero" villain thing. If he ever came back, that's how I would want it to be.

 

Neal just has that kind of backstory that would make him a vengeance-seeker. What's ironic is that almost all the heroes but maybe Charming and Belle do as well. It's Rumple and Regina who are most revenge-minded, yet they have much less to complain about.

Edited October 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Hookian]

I could imagine Neal being trapped in the Underworld because death was the price of resurrecting Rumple, much like saving Robin. He could come back as someone scarred and changed by being there. I'm thinking sort of a demon-ish form, but much more cognizant than Daniel's zombie. That would spook Emma, Rumple and Hook. However, Dark Swan already did the whole "corrupted hero" villain thing. If he ever came back, that's how I would want it to be.

 

Neal just has that kind of backstory that would make him a vengeance-seeker. What's ironic is that almost all the heroes but maybe Charming and Belle do as well. It's Rumple and Regina who are most revenge-minded, yet they have much less to complain about.

 

Neal is not coming back . MRJ is a series regular on a rival network. At best we get teenage Bae in the Underworld seeing Rumple again.

 

He's been pretty prominently featured so far with the Dark Swan arc, and we know there are flashbacks coming, but have we seen any spoilers where his father is featured in current day?   It might happen, but this is the same show that introduced Belle's mother, with comments that indicated she would have a longer arc, and then featured Belle in pivotal scenes in the 4A finale, only to have Belle mostly disappear in the 4B arc.

 

His father is introduced in the mid-season finale. There's a big difference between that and a random episode during the middle of an arc like Belle. 

 

That's why all signs point to his father being immortal and alive.

 

Also Adam on Twitter suggested that he didn't abandon Killian/Liam by choice. Me thinks he was forced by Hades.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Hookian

[PixiePaws1]

Also Adam on Twitter suggested that he didn't abandon Killian/Liam by choice. Me thinks he was forced by Hades.

Wow!! He actually threw that out there?

You know....

wouldn't put it past Merlin to have put a finger in that pie if his precious prophecy shows Killian had to wield the remade sword. Who knows what or who else he meddled with...!

[YaddaYadda]

wouldn't put it past Merlin to have put a finger in that pie if his precious prophecy shows Killian had to wield the remade sword. Who knows what or who else he meddled with...!

 

You're singing my song...I think he meddled with the 3 people who are affected by the sword directly

 

We already know he went to both Emma and Arthur with different messages. We know what he told those two. I'm expecting we'll find out he also went to Hook at some point. Knowing Hook, he likely filed it away, unless he was around Emma and Arthur's age when he got that particular visit.

 

What makes it interesting if Merlin went to Hook when he was around Emma/Arthur's age would be that it's right around the time his father left.

 

3 orphans, 3 destinies that are tied together.

[KAOS Agent]

That scene with Young Emma & Merlin was added much later, so I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the idea that Merlin's visits were setting up some grand thing storywise. I suppose it's possible that they thought about it when they were writing Merlin's first appearance, but I think it's more likely they just thought it would be all mysterious to have him give some stupid cryptic message to Emma that highlights the theme of the season - that doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong. The Young Emma trailer showed up when they were filming episode 5 and I assume that's when they filmed that opening scene since that's the first time Elliot Knight was available on set for filming. 

 

Just something to think about for 5B, Emilie is pregnant, so regardless of whether they write it in or not, I wouldn't expect them to have Belle traveling into another realm on an adventure because that would leave the actress with a heavier workload than maybe she'd like and/or could handle should complications arise with the pregnancy. It would also make it difficult to hide her behind the counter or boxes or whatever to cover her growing belly. This would lead me to believe that Rumpel will not be in need of rescue from another realm. They knew before they started writing these episodes that she's expecting, so I can't imagine they wouldn't take that into account with the story just as they did with Ginny's pregnancy.

[Hookian]

Wow!! He actually threw that out there?

You know....

wouldn't put it past Merlin to have put a finger in that pie if his precious prophecy shows Killian had to wield the remade sword. Who knows what or who else he meddled with...!

 

I think Hades is responsible for his father being immortal if he is. Hades owns his soul.

[Rumsy4]

Wow!! He actually threw that out there?

 

Not really. IIRC, he gave some non-committal answers when asked why he abandoned his sons. That's hardly confirmation of that theory!

 

Any chance the female Dark One like-person mentioned in the new spoilers is Persephone? After all, the furies seem to be back for the scene. (Multiple furies--so no chance of a Guardians of the Galaxy resolution)

[PixiePaws1]

I am thinking this woman who appears in costume like a female version of DO Rumple might be the Darkness as a sentient entity. If the Darkness had become separate from Rumple then it would be male. If she was filming before Ems was de-darked then I could see her being the first or a previous DO...but given the timing. .. unless she is just a demom from the Underworld etc..

[RadioGirl27]

Maybe the furies are there to take this woman, whoever she is (the first DO, the darkness personified) to the underworld, and not Hook, Emma or Regina, and someone takes the opportunity to escape from the underworld, leading to Hades himself coming to Storybrooke to get him/her and 5B. That way we have "hell", some characters facing their pasts and no separation for Hook and Emma, and we avoid the terrible CGI.

Edited October 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[scenicbyway]

I don't think Emma's necklace looks like one of Hook's bigger rings, but I guess it could be his thumb ring. It doesn't seem long enough to be Zelena's necklace, but its hard to tell from that blurry photo. I wonder if Colin parting his hair on the opposite side than he usually does means anything? Like maybe just a slight change that the audience wouldn't be able to put their finger on, but might still feel like something was different about him?

I wondered if the necklace might be Hook's necklace with the skull  etc.  it's about the right length.

 

If Emma goes into the woods as Dark Swan and comes out wearing her red jacket, does this mean a TLK worked?  They did film Hook and Emma off by themselves.

 

I may have to stop watching after Dark Swan is resolved, I'm so not excited for this Underworld plot for the exact reason that it will revive hope for Neal and Liam.  Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson?  I also can't believe they're going there on a "family" show.  Will this play well in December/March?  It seems like it would've fit better now close to Halloween.

[Curio]

Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson? I also can't believe they're going there on a "family" show. Will this play well in December/March? It seems like it would've fit better now close to Halloween.

 

The spring season usually goes from March through May. You know what holiday falls in there? Easter—aka the holiday where a dead guy comes back to life. 

[scenicbyway]

The spring season usually goes from March through May. You know what holiday falls in there? Easter—aka the holiday where a dead guy comes back to life. 

Yes, but this particular episode will air in December.  Even with Easter in March, I'm not excited.

 

On another note, it doesn't appear that Lancelot has been filming with the gang. I know there was speculation that he and Guin would rule Camelot together, but it doesn't look like he made it to Storybrooke...

[HoodlumSheep]

I've been thinking about Lancelot. If he didn't make it to Storybrooke, and it was because his heart was used to cast the curse, how does that work exactly? If Guinevere was the one who crushed it..doesn't that mess with the magic sand stuff? If she's under the sand spell, wouldn't Lancelot's heart not work because she loves Arthur the most?

[YaddaYadda]

I may have to stop watching after Dark Swan is resolved, I'm so not excited for this Underworld plot for the exact reason that it will revive hope for Neal and Liam.  Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson?

 

This is exactly why I don't think they're going to the Underworld as much as it's coming to them.

 

And dead means dead only when they want it to mean just that. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm more for the Underworld coming to them too, but if they did go to the Underworld, couldn't they just pull a Charmed or something where they've been dead too long to be resurrected? That way, if we did see the likes of Nealfire and Liam, we wouldn't have to worry about them coming back to life.

Edited October 25, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

I may have to stop watching after Dark Swan is resolved, I'm so not excited for this Underworld plot for the exact reason that it will revive hope for Neal and Liam. Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson? I also can't believe they're going there on a "family" show. Will this play well in December/March? It seems like it would've fit better now close to Halloween.

Nealfire is never ever coming back. A&E make sure to emphasize that over and over again. There might be cameo appearances from dead people, but I doubt anyone is going to to be brought back from Hades or wheever the Underworld is.

[RadioGirl27]

 

Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson?

I hate the idea of them going to the underworld, but not because of this. There are "logical" options to avoid it. The person that goes there can be still alive, or there can be a rule that says that they can bring back only one person.

[CatMack]

I'm not an expert on Greek mythology by any means but I'm fairly certain there's at least a few stories of people going into the underworld and coming back without it totally undoing the idea of death and meaning anyone can come back to life at any time. Even IF someone actually goes to the physical underworld we don't know that it's because they've actually died rather than choosing to journey there. Even if the spec turns out true that Killian ends up in the underworld after a sacrifice and they go to get him that doesn't mean he actually died. Same goes for anyone else who might sacrifice themselves. I can see plenty of ways they could go there without it invalidating death.

I also don't see an automatic problem with them potentially facing a god like Hades. Aside from the fact that killing a god or god like being is not new in fiction (Buffy and the His Dark Materials trilogy come to mind immediately but there are many more) there's no reason the end result has to be killing anyone. Regina, Rumple, Hook, and Zelena are all villains or former villains who weren't killed. It might actually be nice if they came up with another resolution, since they have dipped into the "heroes don't kill but an awful lot of the villains end up dead anyway" well quite a bit.

That being said this show does have a habit of playing fast and loose with logic when it comes to mythology and world building. I won't be sad if they don't actually go to the underworld. It's just fun speculation.

[scarynikki12]

The Hero traveling to the Underworld is an important element of epic stories.  It's a way for the Hero to gain information that will aid him on his quest.  Odysseus speaks to his dead mother and war friends, learning of the situation back home in Ithaca and that fame from a glorious death pales in comparison to living (straight from dead war hero Achilles).  Aeneas speaks to his dead father, is rejected by his dead lover, and sees glimpses of the future of Rome to let him know that his quest to Italy will prove fruitful generations in the future.  Even Harry Potter travels to the Underworld, which begins technically when he uses the Resurrection Stone to speak to his family before his proper visit with Dumbledore where he learns the final pieces to help him defeat Voldemort.  I feel like Emma has to visit the Underworld at some point before her Hero's Journey can conclude. 

 

The thing about visiting the Underworld is that a sacrifice must be made.  It's usually an animal sacrifice, as the blood is often used during the journey, but different stories do it in different ways.  It's entirely possible that any trip that Once takes to the Underworld will include a sacrifice so that the journey may happen but what I find most interesting is that the sacrifice in epics is one that the Hero makes willingly.  So, I'm wondering if Once will do the same and, if a trip to the Underworld is truly coming, if they'll show someone willingly make the sacrifice.  I can't see Emma sacrificing anyone else so I'm wondering if the reason she's so pissed at her parents and Regina is because they were willing to sacrifice someone (Hook most likely since the Charmings are under a sand spell and Regina doesn't give a damn about him) and this is Emma's way of stopping it from completing?  Maybe we do see the completion of that sacrifice and that's what opens/brings the Underworld? 

[YaddaYadda]

So, I'm wondering if Once will do the same and, if a trip to the Underworld is truly coming, if they'll show someone willingly make the sacrifice.  I can't see Emma sacrificing anyone else so I'm wondering if the reason she's so pissed at her parents and Regina is because they were willing to sacrifice someone (Hook most likely since the Charmings are under a sand spell and Regina doesn't give a damn about him) and this is Emma's way of stopping it from completing?

 

This certainly falls in line with the whole "Now life is precious to you" line that Emma threw at Regina when Regina said she wouldn't sacrifice anyone for Robin's life in order to pay the price. 

 

I wonder how long Snowing are under the sand magic though. From the BTS, it seems that Lancelot, Merlin, Hook. David, along with Belle are working together. It wouldn't make sense if they're still under the magic's effect, or that Lancelot wouldn't recognize that they are especially since their hides don't get thrown in a jail cell. 

[scarynikki12]

To be honest, I can see the Charmings sacrifice Hook without being under a spell, but I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this spec. 

[RadioGirl27]

I can't see Emma sacrificing anyone else so I'm wondering if the reason she's so pissed at her parents and Regina is because they were willing to sacrifice someone (Hook most likely since the Charmings are under a sand spell and Regina doesn't give a damn about him) and this is Emma's way of stopping it from completing?  Maybe we do see the completion of that sacrifice and that's what opens/brings the Underworld?

Jennifer Morrison said in an interview that everything Dark Swan is doing is because of her love for Hook. So I think that she surrends to the darkness so she can save him. And this is another reason why I hate this scenario of "Hook sacrifices himself to save Emma and goes to the underworld". Emma keeps sacrificing herself for the others and paying an incredibly high price for it, while Rumple and Regina get to live happily ever after with their loved ones. A&E must really hate Emma.

 

To be honest, I can see the Charmings sacrifice Hook without being under a spell, but I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this spec.

Oh, absolutely. They can't care less about him. The supposed friendship between Charming and Hook is a fandom thing with no base in canon. This is way I find all the fandom talk about the Charmings, Regina, Robin and even Belle and Gold, all being willing to go save Hook a bit ridiculous, because any of those characters care for him. Emma would have to force them to go with her.

Edited October 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

To be honest, I can see the Charmings sacrifice Hook without being under a spell, but I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this spec. 

Oh, they'd do it without blinking an eye.

 

I think we caught a bit of that in 5x01, when Snow and Hook didn't want Regina to give Zelena the wand even though she was holding Robin hostage. And they both spoke up against Emma using her powers to heal Robin. David didn't say anything because he's not really allowed to talk. 

 

If it came down to it, Hook will happily sacrifice his life and Snowing will not stop him from doing it. At the end of the day, that might be triggering for Emma, that no one stops him. She'd still see this as a betrayal.

[Dianthus]

YaddaYadda, on 25 Oct 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Oh, they'd do it without blinking an eye.

 

I think we caught a bit of that in 5x01, when Snow and Hook didn't want Regina to give Zelena the wand even though she was holding Robin hostage. And they both spoke up against Emma using her powers to heal Robin. David didn't say anything because he's not really allowed to talk. 

 

If it came down to it, Hook will happily sacrifice his life and Snowing will not stop him from doing it. At the end of the day, that might be triggering for Emma, that no one stops him. She'd still see this as a betrayal.

If that's the case, Snowing would really be caught between the Devil(ishly handsome) and the deep blue sea. Hook's an adult who can do what he wants/feels is necessary. Even if they tried to talk him out of it, it wouldn't matter if he'd made up his mind. Nor could they fault him for it. He loves Emma, they love Emma, they all want her de-Darkened. Even if David or Snow were willing to do the same, they've got Baby Do-Over to consider, and Henry's not an option.

[Rumsy4]

Regina is the only person Snowing will keep from sacrificing herself. Everyone else is free to sacrifice themselves if they want to, especially Emma. I definitely think this plays into Emma's decision to embrace the Darkness. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

Adam and Eddy have said that "dead means dead" but if you're going to the Underworld to bring back a series regular, then what's the point or lesson?

Someone can apparently be sent to the Underworld without dying. It looked like the Fury was going to physically carry a living Robin away. If the Guardians of the Galaxy move hadn't worked, then presumably they could have gone after him.

 

Or it could be a particular situation -- under the right circumstances with the right tools and the right knowledge, there's a loophole. So maybe someone who dies not of illness or physical injury but rather in one of those "life for a life" situations can be saved, if the body is in stasis or on life support right away, they get a portal to the Underworld right away, and have some way of buying freedom. So maybe Neal could have been saved if they'd been able to act right at that minute, but Rumple's magic was being constrained by Zelena and Emma didn't know anything about the Underworld to do anything about it, but they've learned something in the meantime so in this other case they're able to go after the person, and alas, Neal's body is already too far gone to be able to save him.

 

It's possible for them to set it up in such a way that I'd buy it. The trick isn't not undermining what happened before, but rather keeping the possibility of serious stakes in the future. They can learn something that they can use now and in the future that they didn't have available in the past -- like they were able to save David from the Dreamshade thanks in part to what Hook learned from Liam's death, and that will make it harder to use Dreamshade to kill in the future, but they can't go back and save Liam with the new knowledge.

 

I'm still not necessarily sold on the idea that the clues we have mean they're going to the Underworld or that it's about Hook.

 

But speaking of Hook, in those recent BTS pictures, it looks like he's had a wardrobe change (if he's in costume and that's not just Colin not in costume yet). Looks more like black jeans than the leather pants, and a regular shirt rather than the vest. Maybe that wool-looking coat from the fight scene pictures under the down coat? And if must really be cold if Colin is wearing a coat over his costume between scenes. Usually everyone else is all bundled up while he's just in his costume clothes, even between scenes.

[YaddaYadda]

I definitely think this plays into Emma's decision to embrace the Darkness.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if she does it to save his life/bring him back.

 

ETA - I know some might roll their eyes at this, but it is kind of epic and all kinds of ironic that he might sacrifice himself or try to in order to bring her back to the light, and it completely backfires because she embraces the darkness for him/because of him (if that's what happens), before they figure out that they can share the burden of the darkness by the time 5x10 rolls around (purely speculative on my part).

Edited October 25, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

Regina is the only person Snowing will keep from sacrificing herself. Everyone else is free to sacrifice themselves if they want to, especially Emma. I definitely think this plays into Emma's decision to embrace the Darkness.

Because unlike Emma, Regina actually worked for her happy ending!

Edited October 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Regina is the only person Snowing will keep from sacrificing herself. Everyone else is free to sacrifice themselves if they want to, especially Emma. I definitely think this plays into Emma's decision to embrace the Darkness.

I wonder if the writers even notice this? They all jumped to save Regina but watched their daughter get sucked by black goop. Emma's been getting punished pretty much since the day Snow popped her out.

How come the person with the least amount of darkness in them is the one getting tested left and right but the rapist, murderers and spousal abusers get these quick redemption?

Edited October 25, 2015 by mjgchick

[scenicbyway]

I'll be ticked if Hook sacrifices himself for Robin, who seems like the likely Fury candidate.

[YaddaYadda]

I'll be ticked if Hook sacrifices himself for Robin

 

Why would that happen? 

[Dianthus]

YaddaYadda, on 25 Oct 2015 - 3:20 PM, said:

Why would that happen? 

It would, in some way, parallel Emma sacrificing herself for Regina and her happy ending. Or he wants to go for some kind of saving Emma reason. Other than that, I got nuthin'.

[Mathius]

How come the person with the least amount of darkness in them is the one getting tested left and right but the rapist, murderers and spousal abusers get these quick redemption?

On that note, I'm conflicted about the news that Arthur goes back home as a prisoner. Because I'm really glad that even if he's repentant, which he probably is, it doesn't mean he can just be king again, be back with Guinevere, and get off scot free since that would be stupid....but I'm also shaking my head at how, at the same time, Regina and Rumple are STILL not being given the same treatment despite doing the same things and worse, on a larger scale and longer period of time, and neither of them are repentant in any way, shape or form.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

I didn't see Gold's cane in any of the recent pics. Does that mean he doesn't even have his limp anymore? Rumpel seems to have really benefited from Emma's sacrifice without doing anything to deserve it.

 

Do you think it's possible that everyone gets dragged to hell, but it's really more like an alternate version of Storybrooke? They can't escape because it isn't in this world, but everything would look the same so there's no need for bad CGI or new sets.

[formerlyfreedom]

Topic will be locked until sometime Monday. Thanks for posting at Previously.TV!

 

[YaddaYadda]

Gold cutting his hand with the dagger.

 

Ok, so Excalibur is broken apart again in 2 separate pieces?

 

And if Gold is there using blood magic, then I'm thinking the Dark One hasn't been destroyed?

 

It's a pretty bold statement on his part that Hook has died sacrificing his life to save Emma's (and yes, I'm fairly certain it's going to happen). That ring around Emma's neck looks a hell of a lot more like wedding band than one of Hook's massive pirate rings.

[Mathius]

I don't think Hook dies-dies, chances are that the darkness is just sealed back to whence it came (the Underworld) and Emma as the Dark One would be dragged down with it, but somehow whatever connection Hook now has with Emma (symbolized by his name on the full Excalibur) he uses to make it so that he takes her place and Emma is set free.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Ok, so Excalibur is broken apart again in 2 separate pieces?

 

And if Gold is there using blood magic, then I'm thinking the Dark One hasn't been destroyed?

 

Well that's anticlimactic and disappointing. Did Gold stab Hook with Excalibur and become the Dark One again (as both Emma and Hook's names were on it)? That would be boring. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

^ Doubt it.  I would think someone would have seen that being filmed if that happened.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mathius

[Stuffy]

Larry did say it was his speculation Hook sacrificed himself, and they're going to the underworld.  He still doesn't know for sure.

[sharky]

Larry did say it was his speculation Hook sacrificed himself, and they're going to the underworld.  He still doesn't know for sure.

Exactly. I mean, I think that's what we're all speculating at this point anyway and he may have a bit more insight because he's actually watching them film. But he's also Larry. It's not like the crew tells the set rats all the secrets.

[Hookian]

Exactly. I mean, I think that's what we're all speculating at this point anyway and he may have a bit more insight because he's actually watching them film. But he's also Larry. It's not like the crew tells the set rats all the secrets.

Larry has speculated in the past and turns out 100% right, he just says it's his theory because he doesn't want to get in trouble.

 

I don't think Hook dies-dies, chances are that the darkness is just sealed back to whence it came (the Underworld) and Emma as the Dark One would be dragged down with it, but somehow whatever connection Hook now has with Emma (symbolized by his name on the full Excalibur) he uses to make it so that he takes her place and Emma is set free.

 

 

This is what I believe as well. Hook pays Emma's price.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Hookian

[Mathius]

Right, but at this point it all seems so obvious.  With this show, if everyone is guessing it, then it's usually right. Remember everyone calling the "big twist" of Emma becoming the Dark One?  These writers are pretty predictable. 

 

This is what I believe as well. Hook pays Emma's price.

 

And of course, no-one is gonna try a hand-holding ritual to get him out of it.  I swear to God, this show....

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

I have to say though, I find this whole dynamic that's going on right now really, really intriguing.

 

Hook and Rumple/Gold (I don't have a clue what to call him anymore) fight on the deck of the JR. Dark Swan puts Rumple through the paces to make him "brave", and I wouldn't even put it past her that she conjured up that massive bear.

 

Emma and Gold are standing there together, he doesn't have his cane, and he seems to actually be helping her out. So there's clearly something going on there. I don't think Gold has any reason to help Emma out, especially if she's trying to save/get Hook back.

 

Excalibur is broken into two pieces again. Is there a new name on the dagger? Does that mean Gold has magic again? There is no other reason for him to be with the dagger. I really wonder what the outcome of that duel on the JR is. 

 

It just seems that whatever Emma may have been hell bent in not seeing happening in Camelot may have come to pass in Storybrooke, so she's essentially done everything for nothing.