Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Free]

Dear Regina,

"You've had a second chance. And a second SECOND chance. Stop painting yourself as a victim. It's absurd."

Love,

Your blatant hypocrisy in your self-righteous speech to Zelena

 

The nerve of her, didn't she recently encounter 1 of her many victims in the last episode?  XD.

[Rumsy4]

Regina is always controlling someone or the other in Merlin's Tower.

[KingOfHearts]

Just weeks ago Regina was sympathetic to Ursula and Cruella, saying they deserve another chance. She knew they weren't to be trusted yet did it anyway. Just saying.

Regina is always controlling someone or the other in Merlin's Tower.

No wonder they're putting her in a Mother Gothel dress.

Edited October 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Regina is always controlling someone or the other in Merlin's Tower.

 

She also seems to enjoy shutting up Zelena.

 

You know, this has to be happening for a reason. She keeps silencing her.

[Rumsy4]

She also seems to enjoy shutting up Zelena.

You know, this has to be happening for a reason. She keeps silencing her.

It would be apposite if Zelena's the reason Regina gets exposed as the Not!savior,

[mjgchick]

If Regina wants to be a savior she also has to try to give even someone like Zelena a second chance. Isn't that what Emma did with EVERYONE who has screwed her over? I'll forever be disgusted at this whole savior bullshit.

[YaddaYadda]

It would be apposite if Zelena's the reason Regina gets exposed as the Not!savior,

 

Arthur already knows she's not the Savior though. He just chose to ignore that little fact because as he told Gwen, "these people are meant to be here."

[Souris]

I think Little John should take Roland and Baby Green, run away with them to England and rise them as his own. It's the only way those two kids would stand a chance.

 

Even if Little John were still a flying monkey, he would be a better option.

 

The show still trying to have its cake & eat it, too, with Regina, presenting her as both The Bestest Savior Evah! and the Evil Queen.

[Rumsy4]

Arthur already knows she's not the Savior though.

Does he, though? He knows she's the Evil Queen, but he called her the savior. Or do you think he was just playing along?

[october]

If Zelena sees her baby as someone to love her (rather than a person in its own right whom she wants to be safe and happy) then Regina's threat seems pretty weak. It doesn't give Zelena much incentive to not keep trying to run away.

 

Also, STFU Regina. You can't be complaining one episode that everyone only sees you as the Evil Queen, then whip out the persona and threats of murder when it suits you. I'm convinced the real reason you have the biggest house in town is that it's the only one with enough room for you, Henry, AND your victim complex.

[YaddaYadda]

Does he, though? He knows she's the Evil Queen, but he called her the savior. Or do you think he was just playing along?

 

He said that if she saved Robin's life, then she must be the Savior. I think Arthur is just going along with whatever. He's not questioning anything because Merlin's prophecy said these people are supposed to be in his kingdom. He's desperate to put his hands on the dagger, so I think he'll just go with whatever until he can't anymore.

[Free]

If Regina wants to be a savior she also has to try to give even someone like Zelena a second chance. Isn't that what Emma did with EVERYONE who has screwed her over? I'll forever be disgusted at this whole savior bullshit.

 

She was the one pouting about how everyone else would treat her if they knew she was the Evil Queen and then she pulls this out in the very next episode.

[Souris]

OK, I’ve been holding on to this idea since the CS movie: the idea that Emma will have to travel to the Underworld to bring Hook back from the dead/purgatory. And that Hook's father is Davy Jones/Charon. What triggered it was Hook’s line about following Emma to the end of the world or time, but not being sure if she’d do the same. Well, what is more the end of time than death? And what is Davy Jones’s Locker but basically a sea-faring version of the Underworld?

 

When Charon showed up the last ep, I was like, “Holy crap! What if they actually do it on the show???” Hook’s father could be the OUAT version of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean, tasked with ferrying the dead to the Underworld – basically, Charon. Andrew Chambliss even tweeted "Who's in the boat?" during his live-tweet of the ep, bringing more attention to him.

 

I always planned to do a long fic where Emma has to go after Hook and bring him back from the Underworld/Davy Jones’s Locker (but with a decidedly happier outcome than Orpheus and Eurydice). But of course I never found the time to do it, and now I guess the theory is all over the fandom.

 

Serves my lazy ass right.

 

But now I'm wondering if they may do this story but with Regina/Robin instead, since he was the one who the Fury tried to collect and I'm still not convinced the price won't come up again. Sean tweeted to Robert Carlyle the other day a tweet that intimated that Sean was in Scotland, but then deleted it soon after. That makes me think that Sean has a longish break from filming, if he took a trip to Scotland during it. Apparently Sean hasn't filmed since Monday.

 

I swear, if they take my CS idea and make it about OQ, I will NOT be a happy camper.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Souris

[Lieutenant]

Rage. That Mills sisters sneak peek has put me in a table-flipping rage faster that anything I've seen on this show yet. I don't care about the bloody context. The only way Regina's self importance, hypocrisy, and insufferable ego will have been worth swallowing (choking the whole way) on this show is if she bites it big in the end. I just want her gone. *flips final table in room*

[RadioGirl27]

OK, I’ve been holding on to this idea since the CS movie: the idea that Emma will have to travel to the Underworld to bring Hook back from the dead/purgatory.

This theory is really popular right now on tumblr, but I don't think they are doing it, for a number of reasons, but mainly because A&E would never make Hook the main character of an arc. But I can see them doing it with Regina being the one dragged to the underworld and everyone else going there to save her. This is another reason why I don't think it would be Hook, only Emma care for him, but almost everybody cares for Regina.

Adam (or Eddy, I'm not sure) said something about some seeds of 5B being planted in 5A, so maybe it's this Regina has to pay "The Price".

[KingOfHearts]

The Underworld would give leeway for a lot of mythogical creatures or gods. Davy Jones or Hades as a Big Bad would be cool. I read somewhere that 5A will explore the origin of magic, which might lead into dark arts fueled by the Underworld. We know they're linked because of the Fury.

[Mathius]

WOW.

That hypocrisy from Regina had BETTER have been intentional on the writers' parts, or else they are officially delusional to a terrifying degree.

[Rumsy4]

That hypocrisy from Regina had BETTER have been intentional on the writers' parts, or else they are officially delusional to a terrifying degree.

 

Well... 

[Mathius]

Seriously, Zelena has had a second chance, and a SECOND second chance.

Whereas Regina has had a second chance, a SECOND second chance, a SECOND second second chance, a SECOND second second second chance, a SECOND second second second second chance, a....etc., etc.

It also seems unfair that Zelena should be denied her child that she wants for the selfish reason of self-gratification, whereas Regina keeps the child that she wanted for the exact same reason....the only difference is that Zelena hasn't had the opportunity to abuse her child yet!

[scenicbyway]

Good grief, I really hope they don't explore the "underworld."  I would think after Daniel's death and re-death they would be done with that kind of storytelling.  In fact, if Robin was truly dead, how did Emma bring him back to life just with her magic?  If it was possible than why didn't Rumple save Baelfire?

 

As for that sisterly sneak peak...  Regina knows better than most what it's like to share a child and potentially have one taken away.  It's shocking that she still would want to take away crazy Zelena's kid after everything that she's learned.  I'm not saying that Zelena should get to keep the baby, she is nuts, but this should be a conversation between Robin and Zelena vs. Zelena and Regina, perhaps there is a scene between them before this one.

 

This episode seems like it's going to be really painful.  I still think it's odd there's been no sneak related to Charming's adventure considering this is supposed to be his centric.

[sharky]

I think there was an interview this summer with Colin talking about a potential project he's trying to work on. At the time, we speculated that it may be a movie during their winter break. I could see them pulling a "Gold" with Hook and killing him off, giving Colin a chance to do his movie while giving the Nevengers a project for the next half season. Frankly, I would actually like that. It would bring in Greek mythology and you could still have the Dark Swan arc going. Perhaps she kills Hook, realizes what she's done, and decides to fight the darkness by traveling into it.

[kili]

After watching that latest Sneak Peak, I don't know what to think.

 

In a normal show, I would think that they were setting Regina up for a big fall. How can she spend an entire episdoe whinging about people not giving her a second chance, feature her traumatized victim as the bad guy for not giving her a second chance (and callously letting him die) and her victims rallying to save her and her loved one and then show us  this scene?

 

Zelena has had one second chance. One. Regina has a bazillion. I'm reminded of the Bible parabell when a rich guy graciously forgives the large debt of a lesser rich guy and then the lesser guy goes out and beats up a peasent who owes him 10 cents. It did not end well for the lesser rich guy when the rich guy found out.  How many times have Regina's victims given Regina a second chance only for her to  commit more crimes against them? How many much worse crimes have we seen Regina do than Zelena? Just last week, we found out about a second village she had massacred.

 

And let's talk for a minute about that second chance Zelena got. Regina's second chance to Zelena was to leave her powerless without protection knowing that a powerful being wanted to murder her and that's exactly what he did before the hour was out. It was only because a magical freak of nature that she was revived. Compare that to the protection and support that Regina's victims have given her.

 

Although Zelena is talking about this baby like a self-involved teen, she might grow to love the baby since it will love her (babies are pretty forgiving). Zelena just needs one iota of love. And I don't think Regina ruthlessly controlling Zelena counts as love (or much of a second chance). I can see why she might want to mute Zelena in mixed company, but muting her in the middle of an argument while bragging about being the Evil Queen is just gross. Regina still has Henry despite all she has done to him and his biological family - why should Zelena not have a chance to know her child?

 

But this is not a normal show. I know I'm supposed to cheer at Regina's take charge moment and hiss at the evilness that is Zelena. Just as I was meant to hiss at Percival last week for not giving Regina a second chance and feel sorry that people cannot forget she was once the Evil Queen. I'm meant to want her to be the mother of her sister's child because how could somebody so evil ever be trusted with a child?

 

My mind boggles. I don't care writers. I shall be contrary to you. #TeamZelena.

 

I now hope that Zelena is paired with Emma in some long con to defeat evil and that Regina at long last gets her commeuppance. I shall invest heavily in Ikea stock because my hopes will be dashed.

[Rumsy4]

As for that sisterly sneak peak...  Regina knows better than most what it's like to share a child and potentially have one taken away.  It's shocking that she still would want to take away crazy Zelena's kid after everything that she's learned.  I'm not saying that Zelena should get to keep the baby, she is nuts, but this should be a conversation between Robin and Zelena vs. Zelena and Regina, perhaps there is a scene between them before this one.

 

Taking this discussion to the Regina thread.

 

ETA: This does not bode well for 5B. It's going to be Regina-centric, with lots of focus on the green baby drama. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

I think there was an interview this summer with Colin talking about a potential project he's trying to work on. At the time, we speculated that it may be a movie during their winter break. I could see them pulling a "Gold" with Hook and killing him off, giving Colin a chance to do his movie while giving the Nevengers a project for the next half season. Frankly, I would actually like that. It would bring in Greek mythology and you could still have the Dark Swan arc going. Perhaps she kills Hook, realizes what she's done, and decides to fight the darkness by traveling into it.

Honestly, if Colin's not on-screen, I'm not interested. If they take him off the canvas permanently -- or for awhile -- I'll tune out. And I don't even want to imagine the distress and flame wars in the fandom if they kill off Hook or even just make it look like they did.

[Serena]

Yeah, them giving Colin time off is never gonna happen. ABC wouldn't allow it. They didn't give it to Josh for a Marvel movie, I don't see Colin being any different.

[Rumsy4]

So, looking at these tweets about the upcoming episode, I know my heart is going to break with the CS angst. I'm glad we get Daddy!Charming, but why not do the second sneak peek on that?!!! 

[mjgchick]

Yikes, rip my heart out why don't you show.

[Rumsy4]

Well I feel fully spoiled thanks to this tumblr account. I have NO self-control. Warning:It's extremely spoilery. I'm really confused about what Emma wants. And I'm also heart-broken already. :-/

OMG WE'RE GOING TO MEET BABY HOOK!!!!!111 For REAL!!!

 

ETA: Lots of questions answered:

Someone did cast a Dark Curse to bring them back to Storybrooke. (Once again, I think it was Nimue, and she crushed Merlin's heart to cast the curse).

 

Mr. Gold is already up. He is the Hero to pull Excalibur out? Like wtf??!!

 

5B will have a different arc.

 

They're looking to cast Baby Killian! ANd Daddy Killian! (And Liam Jones I presume). And we may be getting that Underworld arc after all. Are the Nevengers going to Davy Jones' locker in 5B??

 

We'll get another 2 h episode this season with Mulan, Ruby and Merida!!. I hope it's not just Emma standing outside a door for 45 minutes this time!

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

Emma is heart broken at what Hook's response to him loving her? Good, now she knows how he feels. lol

 

I'm not sure I trust that other stuff unless those were the things coming out of A and E's mouth.

 

 

ETA: I decided to click on that link. Damn I'm weak. So are they really doing the underworld stuff or is that fans theories?

Edited October 9, 2015 by mjgchick

[KingOfHearts]

I guess Gold sort of makes sense since his heart is pure and untainted now. I'm interested to see how he acts when he wakes up.

UGH on the Dark Curse. Stop with the curses already, show! You're giving viewers every right to be fed up with the repetition.

[mjgchick]

Gold does jackshit all season and get's to pull out Excalibur? Sounds fake but ok.

 

So it's probably Mulan/Ruby that's happening. Unless this show is into three somes that is.

[Rumsy4]

ETA: I decided to click on that link. Damn I'm weak. So are they really doing the underworld stuff or is that fans theories?

 

Apparently The word "hell" was used to describe 5B. So, people are REALLY running with the Underworld/Davy Jones theories. I think it's a fun speculation.

[mtsmvfn]

During JMO's interview on EW Radio she said that she knew that she was going to go dark as far as the 3rd season. She still says that she turned dark to save everyone even-thou the writers have her and Hook saying that she did for Regina.. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by mtsmvfn

[PixiePaws1]

Whacked out theory...let me know if I am wrong because I haven't found a way to watch season 5 online safely here in Australia but if Lancelot is missing from SB (cos i can't tell) then my guess is shady Guinevere crushed his heart to cast the curse...

Or Merlin crushed Nimue's to get Dark Emma out of Camelot..

[Shanna Marie]

I swear, I step away from the computer for half an hour, and suddenly all sorts of stuff comes up. Daddy Hook for real! And before the break, not in a "it would be fun to explore that" or "we'd be disappointed if we didn't see that" reference to the next arc.

 

If they follow their usual pattern, the big two-parter will be Nov. 1 because I have a concert that night. They always do pivotal episodes on nights I have concerts. And I have a solo in this one, so I can't suddenly declare myself an extraneous soprano. But I have a DVR now, so ha! I mock their scheduling whims.

[LizaD]

 

I guess Gold sort of makes sense since his heart is pure and untainted now. I'm interested to see how he acts when he wakes up.

And there's a full circle feel to it. Rump used baby Emma to break his dark curse and now she's using him to do whatever. He was the DO for the longest time so it's apropos he should be involved in the Excalibur DO stuff. I hope this means we'll get blank Gold/DS/head DO Rump scenes. Should be great fun if they know what to do with it.  We've got DO Rump "mentoring" DS and in turn DS mentoring hero Gold.

 

 

UGH on the Dark Curse. Stop with the curses already, show! You're giving viewers every right to be fed up with the repetition.

This. I was hoping that the twist was that there is no dark curse. Why the fuck do they need a dark curse to get back to Storybrooke anyway? We've clearly seen 1 million ways to do so. Hell just 2 days ago their time, the crew came to Camelot via another way. Merlin is strutting around in his fancy black robe for gawd sakes! We've seen him draw a door out of thin air to anywhere. This also means that the cheap from a spray can cheesiness of Snowing's heart sharing is also being repeated?

 

I'm guessing they're doing Hercules next with Hades as the new big bad? Maybe the next big twist is that Zeus fathered everyone on the show!

Edited October 9, 2015 by LizaD

[Rumsy4]

If they follow their usual pattern, the big two-parter will be Nov. 1 because I have a concert that night. 

 

November 15th will be the double episode. 

[Shanna Marie]

This. I was hoping that the twist was that there is no dark curse. Why the fuck do they need a dark curse to get back to Storybrooke anyway?

Yeah, I thought the reason behind the Dark Curse was that it was the only way to get to the Land Without Magic. But while Storybrooke exists, it's possible to go through portals, so the Dark Curse isn't necessary. You can open doors, ride a tornado, use a magic bean, be wished there by a necklace, get a mermaid or sea witch to send you on a ship, etc., etc. Plus, the curse creates Storybrooke. Storybrooke was already there. All that happened was that Granny's returned, with the people inside it, and then apparently the Camelot crowd arrived in the woods. The memory spell was separate from the curse when it was the missing year amnesia. The curse also created the Storybrooke personas, but they already had their Storybrooke personas.

 

Unless it's two separate events -- the Storybrooke gang returned via return tornado, but the Camelot crowd chased them via Dark Curse, and all of them lost their memories along the way?

 

And yay, I won't have to worry about the double episode. There's no way I'll have another concert so soon.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Shanna Marie

[mjgchick]

 

And there's a full circle feel to it. Rump used baby Emma to break his dark curse and now she's using him to do whatever. He was the DO for the longest time so it's apropos he should be involved in the Excalibur DO stuff.

Now that you said that it does make sense for him to break the DO curse with Excalibur. I wonder if this will leave him with out powers or does Emma lose her light magic as well as her dark magic?

[RadioGirl27]

Yay for baby Hook, but a big boo for it being in an episode that would be "focusing heavily" not only in Hook but also in "Lana Parilla’s Evil Queen".

The idea of Hero Rumple makes me want to puke.

Edited October 9, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[LizaD]

 

Australia but if Lancelot is missing from SB (cos i can't tell) then my guess is shady Guinevere crushed his heart to cast the curse...

 

Wait I think Arthur crushed Lancelot's heart cause they were bffs, before Lancelot tried to steal G. And that's why Arthur can no longer pull out Excalibur for Emma! But it's still lame that Arthur had to cast the dark curse at all, especially when clearly he's not in control.

Edited October 9, 2015 by LizaD

[maryle]

I read the spoiler and I mostly liked it.

I love that CS have focus even if it seems hurtful!

loved the little Hook and his dad spoiler, not sure if I dare dreaming it is important for a underword 5b story.

Happy that Emma still the real savior, and totally fine if Rumple pull the sword.

And it does seem light toward Regina, so yeah!!

[Mathius]

Emma planning for Gold to be the one to pull out Excalibur makes PERFECT sense, actually. I've said since the S4 finale that his white heart symbolized total blankness, and now that is confirmed, he is "nothing" and thus vulnerable to influence, hence Emma's desire to fill his heart with bright redness and purity and heroism all so that he can be her pawn.

It will be hilarious if, at the last second, Gold falls prey to his old ways and becomes ineligible to pull the sword out.

November 15th will be the double episode.

So last time it was 4x08, now it's 5x08.

This screws up their plans for 4B's premiere as the 100th episode, now it'll be the 4A finale.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Mathius

[OnceUponAJen]

OK, what? They are casting Hook's father? Are we finally getting some things we really want?!

[SiobhanJW]

Emma planning for Gold to be the one to pull out Excalibur makes PERFECT sense, actually. I've said since the S4 finale that his white heart symbolized total blankness, and now that is confirmed, he is "nothing" and thus vulnerable to influence, hence Emma's desire to fill his heart with bright redness and purity and heroism all so that he can be her pawn.

It will be hilarious if, at the last second, Gold falls prey to his old ways and becomes ineligible to pull the sword out.

So last time it was 4x08, now it's 5x08.

This screws up their plans for 4B's premiere as the 100th episode, now it'll be the 4A finale.

I don't think it'll screw it up. I tnink they just count it as one big episode?

[Hookian]

This is all good and so painful.

 

Hook and Regina are gonna team up, something goes wrong and Hook dies. 5B will have them all going to save him from The Underworld with Emma leading the cause(obviously)

 

It's basically gonna be a retelling of the Eurydice and Orpheus story and I cannot wait. I love Greek Mythology so much. Bring on Hades and Davey Jones(Killian's father).

[RadioGirl27]

Really, people, A&E are not going to give Emma both arcs this season and they are NOT going to give Hook a whole arc.

I think 5B is going to be "Save Regina" more than "Save Hook". It looks like the half season finale is a Hook/Regina centric. If they really are doing the underworld, I think there are more chances that Regina is the one dragged to the underworld and all of them go there to save her.

Davy Jones can still be Hook's father and the big villain.

Edited October 10, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[kili]

If they really are doing the underworld, I think there are more chances that Regina is the one dragged to the underworld and all of them go there to save her.

 

Why are they trecking to the Underworld to save Regina or Hook or whoever? They've killed of characters before. If one could travel to the underwold, wouldn't Rumple have already tried that to get Bae back? The dude plotted for 300 years to get his son back, he wouldn't let death stop him unless that was that.

 

I just really hope there is no bringing people back from the dead because then we'd have to go get back everybody who died. And it will ruin any tension in the future - nobody could ever die again.

 

Plus, the CGI they would have to do for the Underwold would be horribly bad and I can't watch that for weeks on end.

[Mari]

Would it have to be the literal underworld? 

 

Because if Regina ended up under a sleeping curse, and then kidnapped by Zelena, they would still have to launch an expedition to rescue her, but it would't be literal "Hell."

 

Or, since they've established there's lots of story lands out there, maybe it's like a "Hell dimension" on BtVS--not literal, afterlife hell, but a horrible, hellish realm.

[Shanna Marie]

They've killed of characters before. If one could travel to the underwold, wouldn't Rumple have already tried that to get Bae back?

There may be a difference between being really killed and being dragged alive into the underworld as some kind of price or payment, like it seemed was going to happen to Robin. So all those other cases were regular dead vs. being dragged/ferried into the realm of the dead.