Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

The writing is on the wall - Elizabeth Mitchell is Elsa's mom. Bonus points if the dad is Prince Jonathan.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

The writing is on the wall - Elizabeth Mitchell is Elsa's mom. Bonus points if the dad is Prince Jonathan.

Bwahahaha.

 

Please, if they have to be from roughly the Regina/Snow/Charming era, please, please let this be so.

 

Actually, I wish they had made Hans "Prince Jonathan".

 

Unfortunately that doesn't line up with the timeline. He would be too old to be Hans, who is around Anna/Elsa's age

 

But, @KingOfHearts, they play around and completely ignore all the other timelines.  Can't they ignore this one, too?  Please?  Pretty please? 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

 

Actually, I wish they had made Hans "Prince Jonathan".

Unfortunately that doesn't line up with the timeline. He would be too old to be Hans, who is around Anna/Elsa's age.

[retrograde]

New (I think) Frozen photos in paper edition of TV Guide. 

[myril]

(from media thread)

 

So they don't want to hire the original cast for that reason, but they'll make the ones they picked look exactly like their Frozen counterparts? If it's not a sequel to Frozen, why are the events of the movie going to remain the same?

 

 

The characters on screen were animated characters, voiced by Kirsten Bell, Idina Menzel and others in the English version of the movie. Do Kirsten Bell or Idina Menzel look anything like the animated characters on screen? No. It was great voice acting, but I don't see what is the big deal, that Once casts people looking like the animated characters and is not casting the English voice cast (in other language other actors did the job anyway). TV and movie are still primarily visual media.

 

 

Definition of sequel: "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one."

 

I wouldn't call what they're doing on Once a sequel, whatever word definitions say. It's the Once universe, and like other characters from other stories came into it, so will characters from the Frozen story come into it. Right, it looks like they don't plan to do some of the more crazy twists they've done with others characters, but their basic approach is the same. Frozen is a toy in the toy shop of the show, of Once Upon a Time, they will use it like they used other toys, for fun, toss it away, and that's it. They don't continue the story, they play with it, but for a change without much changes.

 

[Emma]

http://www.tvguide.com/PhotoGallery/2014-Returning-Fall-Shows-1084772/1084811

 

 

Where We Left Off: After going back in time to see her parents Snow White and Prince Charming meet and fall in love, Emma realized that Storybrooke was where she and Henry truly belong. But the time portal they used to return to town brought along two familiar faces: Frozen's Elsa, who was locked up in Rumple's vault, and the long-dead Maid Marion, whose arrival will surely mess up Robin Hood and Regina's future.

What's Next: Elsa won't be the only Frozen character coming to Once. We'll also meet Anna and Kristoff, whose wedding is upon us, as well as Pabbie and Hans. Elsewhere in Storybrooke, Emma will be dealing with having a stable relationship for once, Belle may uncover the truth about Rumple changing the dagger, Regina will set her sights on destroying those standing in the way of her happy ending with the help of Sidney (Giancarlo Esposito), Henry will go into the family business working with Mr. Gold at the pawn shop, and Snow and Charming will be figuring out parenthood.

 

Stable relationship? I like the sound of that.

 

But Regina? GTFO.

 

*ETA*

 

They're filming in Delta right now. Colin and Georgina sighted so far.

 

http://emyjr.tumblr.com/post/93980474777/hookier-colin-georgina-on-set-08-06-14-x

Edited August 6, 2014 by Emma

[Souris]

Colin and Georgina on set today. Both still in their usual costumes. I'm not sure if they're still on ep 3 or they've moved onto ep 4 by now.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock in that TVG preview. It sounds like they simply cobbled it together from Comic Con stuff and other releases and may have assumed some things that may not happen that way (the Regina-Sidney scene could be a dream, for instance).

Edited August 6, 2014 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

I had half hoped that the Sydney/Regina scene was a dream sequence. But it looks like Regina's really back to square one now?? What a loser!! On the other hand, we haven't heard that the actor has been back for more scenes. So, who knows??

I too like the sound of "stable relationship". ;-)

[RadioGirl27]

Source. Comments to article suggested Don Quixote.

Not sure how this character fits into the storylines we know about.

As a Spanish girl who has grow up with Don Quixote this makes me cry. I hope this is just crazy talk from the fans and not something the show can really consider.

I too like the sound of "stable relationship"

Yeah, I love it too. But anything the actors have say gives that impression.

Edited August 6, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

I agree with @Souris 100% -- that's just a TV Guide intern doing a subpar job of summarizing spoilers.

[KingOfHearts]

The characters on screen were animated characters, voiced by Kirsten Bell, Idina Menzel and others in the English version of the movie. Do Kirsten Bell or Idina Menzel look anything like the animated characters on screen? No.

 

If that were the actual reason, I'd be fine with it. But it's not what they said. If they had said, "The original voice actors don't look like their characters", that would make sense. But there is very little so suggest Frozen on Once isn't a sequel. They're not changing it, and it's no different from the movie. The only difference is this is on the small screen. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck.

 

I don't care if they use the original voice actors, but the reason they're not that they said isn't logical, even if it weren't a sequel. We can use the same story, designs, characters and costumes, but using the voice actors makes it a sequel? No other adaptation on the show is as close to its original material as Frozen.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

If they had said, "The original voice actors don't look like their characters", that would make sense. But in every way, the Frozen episodes are a sequel to Frozen. They're not changing it, and it's no different from the movie. The only difference is this is on the small screen. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck.

I have a sneaking suspicion this is a Disney issue. There have been reports that a high higher up at Disney has been on set, which likely means that Disney is signing off on these scripts. So my guess is they can't use the original actors or call it a sequel because of the Disney machine, but Adam and Eddy can't actually say that. The parent company can make alot of money off their own cartoon sequels so they're trying to use obtuse language to protect the characters in Walt Disney's vault from the black sheep of the family over at that network television station. It's essentially Frozen fanfiction that has the blessing of Disney but will never become canon.

 

That being said, I do wonder how this will affect the scripts this season in terms of how heavy a hand they will have on it. Did Disney honchos approve the general storyline? Did they approve the actual scripts? Because if they're getting detailed about it, this could be very interesting for the show. Either Disney has a special script supervisor that can iron out some of the issues that crop up in a typical campy OUAT script or the OUAT characters will be compromised so Disney can protect its interest in Frozen.

 

As for the photos, are Colin and Georgina the only two who actually showed up to film? In which case, what's up with that? I'm really starting to wonder what kind of connection Hook had with Elsa and what that means in terms of when exactly Elsa was put in the urn and sent to Rumple's place.

[Souris]

As for the photos, are Colin and Georgina the only two who actually showed up to film? In which case, what's up with that? I'm really starting to wonder what kind of connection Hook had with Elsa and what that means in terms of when exactly Elsa was put in the urn and sent to Rumple's place.

 

Josh and JMo also showed up, according to the girl who posted the photos.

[Shanna Marie]

It's essentially Frozen fanfiction that has the blessing of Disney but will never become canon.

I suspect that's what "we're not making a sequel to Frozen" means. The Once Upon a Time story involving the Frozen characters will not be considered canon within the Frozen universe, and therefore it's not actually a sequel to Frozen. The Once version will be an alt-universe story.

[myril]

If that were the actual reason, I'd be fine with it. But it's not what they said. If they had said, "The original voice actors don't look like their characters", that would make sense. But there is very little so suggest Frozen on Once isn't a sequel. They're not changing it, and it's no different from the movie. The only difference is this is on the small screen. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck.

 

I don't care if they use the original voice actors, but the reason they're not that they said isn't logical, even if it weren't a sequel. We can use the same story, designs, characters and costumes, but using the voice actors makes it a sequel? No other adaptation on the show is as close to its original material as Frozen.

 

No, it's not what the writers said. It's what I wrote, because I don't understand what the big deal is that for example HuffPost is making with their headline. As if it's huge insult against the voice actors of the movie that the showrunners of Once haven't approached them for a role on their project. It's not. It could be geek fun to have some of the cast do cameos, but otherwise I find it understandable, that the show doesn't want to mash up things on that level as much with the movie. That is the point: They want to do their own thing and not a sequel, even if they might stay very close to the movie with their story and take of the characters.

Why should Adam and Eddy have any interest to do a sequel to Frozen inside of their own show? As they've done with pretty much every other character they're using popularity maybe to get people interested, but they never sounded like they were trying to shove in a sequel by the back door. Adam and Eddy want to use Frozen as they used other stories, a new toy to toy around with for a while for fun, while the show itself still is mainly about Regina, Rumple, Emma, Snow, Charming. Frozen is practically a playground, which the Once team will imitate and mix with their own stuff. The difference I see, and why I think that it is indeed not right to call it a sequel, regardless how close they will stay to the movie story as background for the Frozen characters, the difference is, that they will only play around with Frozen. Frozen is not going to take over Once, it's just another world being taken into the Once universe. I don't think that Disney gave them even instructions not to call it sequel, it quite simply is not meant as that.

I know, with the casting news rushing in it looks sometimes, as if Frozen might take over the show, but the casting says nothing about how much screentime and story they actually will have. I expect it  to be not that much different from Neverland, only that Arendelle will be a thing of fairy backs, and the main present story plays out in Storbrooke, just that the main Frozen characters will be still mostly like they have been in the Disney movie.

The problem I see is, I think a lot of people do expect the show to do a lot more than that, than just playing around, and so probably will be disappointed. Looking at it more as fan fiction is a good idea.

 

If Disney would like to do a sequel and as TV series then they would do so, and not as half season and probable spin-off of Once. Once is a different take on their movies, but not a sequel of any Disney movie, it makes use of the Disneyverse but it's more of an alternative universe of it. If Once can use Frozen succesfully, good for the company, because, ABC production, otherwise Disney is at the moment developing a stage version and rejoicing about the merchandise sales. If Once helps to keep these merchandise sales high, great, but that is more of a welcome extra than long time strategy. I don't think the company has to protect anything here, they can sit back quite relaxed see what will happen.  Adam and Eddy are taking the bigger risk, they will get the crapstorm from the audience if people dislike what they make of the popular Frozen characters.

 

If one likes we can call it a sequel, because from a narrative point of view it might look much like one, like plenty of fan fiction more or less could be called sequels, story wise many are. But from a business point of view it certainly is not a sequel, won't be marketed as that, and I think that is okay.

Edited August 6, 2014 by katusch

[RadioGirl27]

Of course they would never say this a sequel of Frozen, but in reality it is. They are just going to continue the story from the film without any twist or big change.

I think this a lose/lose situation for A&E, because it's going to be impossible to please everybody (Once fans, Frozen fans, Disney). In the end someone, or probably everyone, is going to be pissed. I'm already pissed and the season hasn't started yet.

[Souris]

Michael Socha was also on set today, according to one of the fans who went out there.

 

From her description, it sounds like there were scenes with Elsa/Hook (talking, fan couldn't hear anything), Emma/David and Emma by herself (?). She thought Will filmed with Emma/David. JMo's stunt double had on the same outfit, so that leads me to believe there was action involved.

 

I actually don’t know for sure but I THINK it was Jen and Josh… I think. Georgina and Colin filmed together (that I know for sure because I watched that scene), but the other scenes were all blocked or further in the park. Jen and Josh for sure filmed together, and I think Jen did some on her own… because Josh was out with us and they were still rolling and she was the only one still in there haha.

 

@KingOfHearts, I'm equally perplexed about him being there Ana-less. The only thing I can come up with that makes sense and doesn't scuttle their happy ending is that he needed something he left behind in Storybrooke and gets caught up in the crisis du jour. Given how much they compress time, the season could take just a week or two in their timeline.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

I'm still perplexed on how he'll be on the show but not Anastasia, and why he even goes back to Storybrooke. He's the White King in Wonderland ruling alongside his wife, so I'm not sure how he ties in. If we get to see Wonderland - then yay!

[Emma]

http://captainswanouat.tumblr.com/

 

Some pics with the cast and a few comments.

 

Jen, Colin, Josh, Georgina, Michael.

 

I want Emma's new jacket.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Emma

[retrograde]

I want Emma's new jacket.

Was just going to say the same thing. 

 

Both she and Charming seem to be wearing pretty light jackets, so if the town froze over in 4.02, it must have returned to normal already. I think this also clinches the Knave as Charming's old friend WHO LITERALLY CHANGED HIS LIFE YOU GUYS. 

[Souris]

Nerdist interviews with the cast and A&E from Comic Con. Nothing really new on the spoiler front, but I felt like Eddie's side-eye reaction to the question of whether Hans has something to do with Elizabeth Mitchell's character was potentially telling. I could see Hans seeking out the Snow Queen to help him take revenge on Elsa and Anna.

 

Another fan recap of filming today.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Souris

[retrograde]

Vaguely spoilery from the DVD commentaries:

 

They were amazed they were able to keep the final scene a secret but no cast or crew members got the scene in the script. Another scene was there but they hope to use this in the future so will not talk about it.

 

 

Hmmm. Wonder what could have been there that fit at the time but would still fit in the future?

[stealinghome]

Emma really does get the best jackets!

 

It looks like Charming's back in his 3B jacket, which I have to confess I'm not a huge fan of. I'm not sure why, but something about the fit and style just doesn't quite work for me.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm still perplexed on how he'll be on the show but not Anastasia, and why he even goes back to Storybrooke. He's the White King in Wonderland ruling alongside his wife, so I'm not sure how he ties in. If we get to see Wonderland - then yay!

Ugh, I was wishing he would not appear until 4B or not at all (I haven't seen Wonderland and I can care less about him).

If Emma & co. were dealing with the bad guy from Wonderland or if Will had not had a happy ending in his show, it would have made sense to bring him, but the bad guy is not Jafar (unless he had a sex change during this time) and for what I've read, they gave him a beautiful happy ending with his true love, so I can't see a reason to bring him other than "new toy to play with". (I know he is not new to A&E, but he is new in the context of Once).

Something else that bothers me is that they are bringing him as a regular, when this show has already 8 regulars and half of them lack of screentime and a decent storyline (being someone's love interest is not a storyline).

Edited August 7, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

My greater concern would be that he's not a new toy to play with, so much as a popular character they want to shoehorn in for the sake of it without a decent reason or storyline. "New toy" implies they want to get creative and do things, but I have to wonder whether he will just be the new "roguish British guy" now Hook is a romantic lead and Robin... was never all that roguish in the end. 

[KingOfHearts]

At first I thought maybe he would only appear in flashbacks, but if he has "regular" status, then that's unlikely. If there's some scrutiny on the validity of Marian's story, could the cast call on the Knave to set the record straight? He was in the Merry Men, so could he be a witness?

I also wonder if he has a connection with Regina, since he was cursed to Storybrooke. The writers have a lot to play with since he's connected to several characters. Time will tell if they actually utilize that, though.

Edited August 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

Well both him and Charming were filming in modern clothes yesterday.  I don't know if his "regular" contract means all that much. Megan was one too and they did nothing with her. The contract is probably to lock him down for whatever arc they have in mind so that he can't book another gig.

 

As for Anastasia maybe they'll add her in 4B. They are already on overload with the Frozen cast and have their own "Anna." Personally I hope he spends more time with Charming and do cop buddy adventures. His Merry Men connection sounds dumb. I mean A&E said he was a disgraced Merry Men or something like that? Mr. Bold and Audacious making any moral judgment on Will or anyone is going to be barf worthy.

[MaiLuna]

http://tvline.com/2014/08/07/once-upon-a-time-season-4-belle-backstory/

 

 

 

Do you have any scoop about Once Upon a Time’s Belle that doesn’t involve Rumplestiltskin’s dagger? –Natalie
What if I told you that we just may get to see some of Belle’s life before she met Rumplestiltskin. That would fit the Belle, er bill, yes?

 

I don't know how they're fitting all of these spoilers we're getting in 43 minute episodes! 

[Crimson Belle]

http://tvline.com/2014/08/07/once-upon-a-time-season-4-belle-backstory/

 

 

I don't know how they're fitting all of these spoilers we're getting in 43 minute episodes! 

Easy.  3 minutes for flashbacks that ultimately will prove meaningless.  10 minutes of running around aimlessly, with our heroes looking like incompetent fools, 2 minutes of sad backstory for a villain that will be gone in 10 episodes and 28 minutes devoted to Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

Belle finally gets something outside of being a love interest, huzzah! My only worries is on what the present day events will be about in that episode. If it's another Rumpbelle fight, I pass. If Gaston comes back to life, he and Marian can start a club. Throw Milah and Daniel in there too somehow. It would be a dead lovers intervention!

Edited August 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

If Gaston comes back to life, he and Marian can start a club.

 

She couldn't have cared less about Gaston whereas Robin claimed to have loved Marian (and risked his life for her). Sure, Belle wouldn't have been happy to know that Rumple had turned Gaston into a rose, but his returning would cause her no more pause than Courtier Number 4 showing back up. If we do show Gaston in a flashback, it will be to show us how much she didn't want that relationship.

 

What if I told you that we just may get to see some of Belle’s life before she met Rumplestiltskin.

 

I just hope it's not more "I'm a bird in a gilded cage that just longs for adventure" because we got that from her last two flashbacks already. Maybe we can some background on why she is so trusting of somebody who has repeatedly shown to be untrustworthy. Maybe she got it from her Mom (her Dad seems to be a little more suspicious of people).

[KingOfHearts]

 

She couldn't have cared less about Gaston whereas Robin claimed to have loved Marian (and risked his life for her). 

It's not necessarily how Belle feels, but how Gaston feels. He may have truly loved Belle, but it wasn't reciprocated. Maybe he didn't realize she was unhappy with him. He would probably be disgusted to find out she married the guy who turned him into a rose, as Marian is with Robin. (The "You monster!" stuff.)

 

 

I just hope it's not more "I'm a bird in a gilded cage that just longs for adventure" because we got that from her last two flashbacks already.

 

I totally agree. But when it comes to Adam and Eddie, it would probably end up being that Belle is Elsa and Anna's long lost sister if not the bland gilded cage stuff.

Edited August 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

I totally agree. But when it comes to Adam and Eddie, it would probably end up being that Belle is Elsa and Anna's long lost sister if not the bland gilded cage stuff.

 

I'm actually a little worried about that. We didn't see Belle's Mom and Moe is a bit of an older dad. Maybe Moe and Elisabeth Mitchell's character are Belle's parents, but are also Elsa and Anna's parents who were lost at sea. Moe and Elisabeth started a new family, while Elsa and Anna got urned by Rumple (and stopped aging). That's why Rumple wanted Belle as a servant - he wanted to make sure she had none of her sister's power. Meanwhile, Kristoff is really the long-lost third Jones brother and Hans is Eva's fraternal twin. And Sven? He's Malificient's unicorn's second cousin once removed.

[RadioGirl27]

http://tvline.com/2014/08/07/once-upon-a-time-season-4-belle-backstory/

I don't know how they're fitting all of these spoilers we're getting in 43 minute episodes!

It seems too much for just eleven episodes, with Frozen, Emma's issues, the love triangle, Rumple and the dagger, Will, whoever Elizabeth Mitchell is playing and her inevitable sad backstory, Henry working for Gold, Charming's and now Belle's backstory. It is impossible that all this stuff would get a meaningful time. (God, I am not interested in any of this).

About Belle, the flashback would relate to her finding about the dagger, getting mad with Rumple and forgiving him (all in the same episode).

Edited August 7, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

ITA, RadioGirl27. I feel like all these "character storylines" are going to be short Plot B's or C's to accommodate the Frozen Plot A. The spoiler hints have been really random. The most aggravating part is that all the plots will probably conclude themselves by the end of the half season, with little to no long term effects or pay-off. I don't give a crap about storylines like Frozen that are there just for show and not really relevant to the main plot. With this pattern, the writers can just keep dragging skeletons out of Rumple and Regina's closets when they need new Big Bads.

[Rumsy4]

What if Will's storyline in OUAT-Wonderland is not considered canon for the purposes of the mother-show? It would piss off the people who did watch Wonderland, but then, there are admittedly not that many of them. Something like the writers doing a twist on a fairy tale, but this time, it's their own show. That would give them a lot of freedom on how to writer for the character, and keep him on for a longer term if need be (and ignore the Anastasia storyline). 

 

I'm kinda resigned to all these new additions now, and am even excited to see Georgina Haig as Elsa. But like I said before, I wish they would have done a season-long arc, and a longer timespan over the season. If Disney agreed to let A&E play with Frozen, I doubt it would matter if it was for half-season, or a full-season. I think the reason they are not calling Frozen a proper sequel because when Frozen 2 comes out, Disney would want to have the freedom to do develop it without considering the OUAT storylines. Besides, would Rumple and Regina really be part of the original Frozen Universe? So, I don't quibble with A&E saying they are bringing their own twist to Frozen.  

Edited August 7, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I feel like all these "character storylines" are going to be short Plot B's or C's to accommodate the Frozen Plot A.

Yeah, probably a random fairyback or two that sort of thematically connects to what's going on in the A plot or explains one thing about a character but that is otherwise meaningless. So, in an episode in which Belle does a particular thing in dealing with either Rumple's betrayal or the Frozen stuff, we may get a fairyback about her life before Rumple that reflects or explains her actions in the present.

 

Like, before season 3, the mention that Ursula and Tinkerbell would appear would have made it sound like major storylines, but it turned out to be one episode for Ursula, and most of that time it was Regina pretending to be Ursula, and then Tinkerbell was barely around, not enough presence to really eat up story time, and her fairybacks were mostly about Regina and Robin's potential relationship and Hook's romantic issues.

[legaleagle53]

What if Will's storyline in OUAT-Wonderland is not considered canon for the purposes of the mother-show? It would piss off the people who did watch Wonderland, but then, there are admittedly not that many of them. Something like the writers doing a twist on a fairy tale, but this time, it's their own show. That would give them a lot of freedom on how to writer for the character, and keep him on for a longer term if need be (and ignore the Anastasia storyline). 

 

Except that there were several direct cross-overs with the main show (Cora as the Queen of Hearts was revealed as the one who taught Anastasia how to do magic; Alice knew about Storybrooke from Will and had the White Rabbit take her and Cyrus there to retrieve Will's heart; and part of one of the first episodes in fact takes place in Storybrooke on the night that the Wraith appeared), so it would be a little difficult to dismiss Wonderland as non-canon.

Edited August 8, 2014 by legaleagle53

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe Curse 2.0 sucked Will out of Wonderland and back to Storybrooke, and part of the story will be about him finding his way back to Wonderland and Ana. Since 3B covered such a short timespan, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think he might have been lying low, especially since he didn't leave Robin and the gang on great terms. Once he knew they were in Storybrooke, he might have made himself scarce. Supposedly, he was in town for all of Curse 1.0 and we never saw him (since it seemed the Rabbit found him soon after the curse broke, and all of the Wonderland series must have taken place during season 2 and 3A), so there's no reason he couldn't have been around but unseen for Curse 2.0.

 

I'm not sure why he and not Ana would have been cursed in the first place, unless maybe Ana's magic saved her or unless that was a spillover from when Maleficent owned the curse and she blamed him for taking the mirror, so he was cherry-picked for the curse when it was getting the people on the list from various other realms, like Jefferson and Whale.

[retrograde]

Looks like they're filming all day in Steveston on Tuesday. 

[KingOfHearts]

If the Knave was swept in with Curse 2.0, which pretty much has to happen to avoid a plot hole, you'd think Ana would have the White Rabbit go look for him there.

 

 

unless that was a spillover from when Maleficent owned the curse and she blamed him for taking the mirror, so he was cherry-picked for the curse when it was getting the people on the list from various other realms, like Jefferson and Whale.

I'd say he was definitely cherry-picked, but I don't know if it was by Maleficent. She was very adamant about never using the Curse and making sure no one else ever did. I'd say only the caster could make the Guest List of Evil, but the Curse rules are so vague and breakable that I have no real leg to stand on with that one.

Edited August 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

They could undo the events of Wonderland if it turns out that Emma and Hook changed something in the past that prevented Will from meeting Ana or going to Wonderland. Like Will was supposed to meet Hook at that tavern and it was supposed to changed the course of his life but he didn't because Hook was passed out on his ship or those were Will's mum's peasant clothes that Emma stole and Will spent hours searching for them when he was supposed to be meeting Ana or something. That would be very difficult to pull off though and I don't really want OUaT in Wonderland's canon to be changed.

 

Extremely unlikely retcons aside, if I want one thing from Will's time on the mothershow, it's to find out what he was doing in Storybrooke in the first place.

Edited August 8, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[RadioGirl27]

What if Will's storyline in OUAT-Wonderland is not considered canon for the purposes of the mother-show? It would piss off the people who did watch Wonderland, but then, there are admittedly not that many of them. Something like the writers doing a twist on a fairy tale, but this time, it's their own show. That would give them a lot of freedom on how to writer for the character, and keep him on for a longer term if need be (and ignore the Anastasia storyline).

I haven't seen Wonderland and I couldn't care less about it, Will or Ana but if they do this I would be really pissed. It would show such a lack of respect for that show (one they created) and its fans that don't think I would ever watch another show of them. And really, it would demostrate their lack of imagination and how they don't have a long term plan and are making things along the way.

 

I'm kinda resigned to all these new additions now, and am even excited to see Georgina Haig as Elsa. But like I said before, I wish they would have done a season-long arc, and a longer timespan over the season. If Disney agreed to let A&E play with Frozen, I doubt it would matter if it was for half-season, or a full-season. I think the reason they are not calling Frozen a proper sequel because when Frozen 2 comes out, Disney would want to have the freedom to do develop it without considering the OUAT storylines. Besides, would Rumple and Regina really be part of the original Frozen Universe? So, I don't quibble with A&E saying they are bringing their own twist to Frozen.

Frozen original story is so thin and simple that it would be impossible to drag it for a whole season.

Edited August 8, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

As someone who watched only one episode of Wonderland because I thought it was incredibly awful and who hasn't seen Frozen, I really can't say that I'm excited in the least about this.  For me, everything will be an obscure reference if they start taking about what the Knave or the White Rabbit and Alice did.

[ShadowFacts]

I thought Wonderland was bad at first, skipped a few weeks, went back to it, and I liked it much better, to my surprise.  Will Scarlett was the best thing about it.  Since I don't care much for Frozen--it's a bit refreshing as Disney stories go-- and I am not swoony over CaptainSwan, and Regina grates on my last nerve, really the appearance of the Knave is about the only thing that's a bit intriguing.  This show needs a huge shot in the arm, and this guy Michael Socha can bring a lot of humor, he really delivers a line.  But last season was so shark-jumpy, and I'm so not swept up in the Frozen wave, that as yet the spoilers haven't hooked me back in.

[Rumsy4]

Frozen original story is so thin and simple that it would be impossible to drag it for a whole season.

I liked Frozen a lot. While it may have been a simple tale, it was hardly simplistic. Besides, OUAT is not redoing the movie. If the writers could get back somewhat to the pacing of S1, I don't see why they can't have the Frozen arc last through the Season.

This burning through guest characters for each half season is getting ridiculous. The time-line for the action has been shrinking too. At this rate, the whole of S4 might last a sum total of 5 days! Why care about any of the guest characters if they'll be gone in a few days in-show? If the Emma/Elsa friendship lasts all of three days, and entails two conversations, it will seem pointless. If they paced themselves over the season, it would be more rewarding for the writers and for the viewers.

[sharky]

This burning through guest characters for each half season is getting ridiculous. The time-line for the action has been shrinking too. At this rate, the whole of S4 might last a sum total of 5 days! Why care about any of the guest characters if they'll be gone in a few days in-show? If the Emma/Elsa friendship lasts all of three days, and entails two conversations, it will seem pointless. If they paced themselves over the season, it would be more rewarding for the writers and for the viewers.

I have the same problem, which is why I'm hopeful that they made Michael Socha a series regular. To me, that signals that he's going to be there the whole season and therefore will pull in some extra needed continuity between 4A and 4B -- perhaps Sherwood Forest is the next stop or, crazy of all crazy, they don't bring in anyone else for 4B and let the original characters breathe with the added fresh meat from Will to provide an extra storyline. As it stands though, we don't have any clue what 4B is going to be, do we? If I remember correctly, last year we didn't know about Oz until after the winter finale so I'm assuming we won't know how the rest of this season plays out until mid-November at the earliest.

[KingOfHearts]

Since they're bringing in the Knave, 4B could be Aladdin with the return of Jafar. Unless of course Disney releases another animated blockbuster this year...

Edited August 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

 Knave is about the only thing that's a bit intriguing.  This show needs a huge shot in the arm, and this guy Michael Socha can bring a lot of humor, he really delivers a line.  But last season was so shark-jumpy, and I'm so not swept up in the Frozen wave, that as yet the spoilers haven't hooked me back in.

 

Well the problem is the writers have such a special talent for ruining all characters, (see Snow for the best example)  that there's  a 100% guarantee that the Knave too will be ruined if he's here long term and more than window dressing. I wouldn't want these people to touch any characters or stories I like. With Frozen, I'm hoping that there's some heavy duty micromanagment going on and I bet there is.  I mean left to their own devices A&E would probably have Elsa and Woegina commiserate over their "similar" lives and persecution instead of Elsa and Emma.

[RadioGirl27]

I liked Frozen a lot. While it may have been a simple tale, it was hardly simplistic. Besides, OUAT is not redoing the movie. If the writers could get back somewhat to the pacing of S1, I don't see why they can't have the Frozen arc last through the Season.

I don't know, I was really disappointed with the film. Maybe it's because a lot of people was saying how good it was and how different it was from other Disney films that I was expecting too much from it. The only thing I truly liked was the fact that it was the love between the two sisters and not a romantic love what saved Anna.

 

This burning through guest characters for each half season is getting ridiculous. The time-line for the action has been shrinking too. At this rate, the whole of S4 might last a sum total of 5 days! Why care about any of the guest characters if they'll be gone in a few days in-show? If the Emma/Elsa friendship lasts all of three days, and entails two conversations, it will seem pointless. If they paced themselves over the season, it would be more rewarding for the writers and for the viewers.

They have been burning characters and stories since season 1 (Cinderella). And the time-line is ridiculous at this point.

 

As it stands though, we don't have any clue what 4B is going to be, do we? If I remember correctly, last year we didn't know about Oz until after the winter finale so I'm assuming we won't know how the rest of this season plays out until mid-November at the earliest.

If they follow the pattern of 4A, I can see them bringing all the characters from the Arthurian Cycle in 4B (only in the Round Table they have 24 knights to choose).

In fact, I think that "elderly, grizzled and unflappable knight" they were casting is Percival.