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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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If that were the case, and Captain Swan got married, Regina would be Emma's half aunt-in-law and Henry would be both Hook's step-son and adoptive cousin. So much weird.

(Oh and Roland would be Hook's half-brother and Hook would have flirted with his own grandmother.)

 

 

Ginny: "... but I will say that the choices Emma makes as the Dark One are full of just as much integrity as the choices she makes as Light Emma."

I'm not sure what she means by this. It seems contradictory to how Dark Swan has been portrayed thus far.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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If that were the case, and Captain Swan got married, Regina would be Emma's half aunt-in-law and Henry would be both Hook's step-son and adoptive cousin. So much weird.

(Oh and Roland would be Hook's half-brother and Hook would have flirted with his own grandmother.)

 

This is why David once wryly observed that it's a good thing that Thanksgiving was not observed in the Enchanted Forest, because that holiday dinner would suck!

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I just read someone speculating that the trailer that was seen on set for "Young Emma" for episode 5.04 could have been for the actress playing Even Younger Emma (Mackenna) and not for Abby Ross (I think she was somewhere else entirely during filming!).

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New TV Line Article - Eddy says Regina is not the Savior, she just owes Emma (LMAO - all that wank for nothing). Plus, Emma is "hiding something from the audience".

 

So if Emma is hiding something from the audience, that means she's hiding it from the characters and everyone will find out at the same time, no? Or maybe she tells her secret to one person (Snow) who spills to the rest of the world, because Snow...

 

Wonder what she's hiding.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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if Hook is active over 1st 10 episodes to save Emma does that seem to indicate she is no longer the Dark One after 10 eps, Hook gets put on ice after 10 eps or they just haven't plotted further than 10 eps? Enquiring minds want to know!

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Emma has a secret? I can't wait to find out that even-younger!Emma revealed a secret just like her momma when she was young. Joking, joking.

Maybe the secret is that she's not really the Dark One, tethered to the dagger, being tempted by darkness (or something like that)??? Maybe she's just using this chance (where everyone thinks she's the Dark One,etc.) to indulge herself and have a vacation and some fun.

That would be twisty. Doesn't make any sense (and could ruin Emma's character), but it's this show. If people can ignore the fact that Regina had a whole village slaughtered, what's to say we can wave Emma ripping out hearts and stuff for fun?

Hopefully Hook is actually active like they say he will be. All I remember is how little we got to see him in season 4. Or at least it feels like we didn't see him much.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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[Emma's] clearly going to be hiding something from the audience that will be revealed as the first half of the season unfolds.

My wild guess is that Merlin shared some sort of prophecy with wee Young Emma; something like she would have to become the Dark One to ultimately defeat the Dark One, once and for all. But Emma didn’t take Merlin's prophecy seriously (naturally, because who the hell would) and forgot all about it until this situation with Dark Flubber happened. So, all this time Dark Swan is going around doing things that seem “dark" and "evil” to everyone, including the audience (though knowing this show her actions are more gray and less dark), but later her actions are revealed to have a greater purpose behind them -- the secret she's been hiding -- that everything she's done that appears dark has been done in an attempt to ultimately defeat Dark Flubber.

 

In this way, when this 5A Dark Swan arc starts off everyone will be against Dark Swan ('cause she seems crazy evil), but then Emma's secret is revealed to the audience, which is that she's got a very good reason for why she's doing what she's doing -- she's trying to get rid of Dark Flubber forever. A reveal like this would be somewhat similar to how Rumpel was all crazy Dark One in s1 doing things for no apparent reason, but then it's later revealed that Rumpel had an ultimate reason for building his nutty Rube Goldberg machine of Dark Curses and manipulating everyone.

…I don’t know. That’s the only kooky theory I have that jibes with the things that have been said in interviews with regards to Dark Swan: she's “driven" by a purpose, she’s hiding a secret from everyone, things aren’t as they appear, and Ginnifer Goodwin saying that Dark Emma’s choices have as much “integrity” as Light Emma.

 

(Meh. I've tried to be optimistic about this Dark Swan arc --truly I have -- but it's not happening for me. Nothing that's been said and nothing I've seen is motivating me to tune in for S5, despite the impression they are giving of it being focused on Emma. It's TS;TW; All Hail Regina. They're just going to ruin Emma once and for all. I have no desire to be witness to that.) 

Edited by regularlyleaded
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Well, maybe there already a full moon, because I totally loved that arcticle with A and E.

1) it really seems they understood some concern over the Regina is the new savior things are real. They wants to downplay it.

It's smart even for Regina as a character because she should have her own struggle and I can buy ,actually,the (she doesn't like to own Emma) so much more than the shiny new savior image.

2) They really hitting that Hook will be important.

But, why just for 10 episodes? After, that he just going to be in the background again? The DS' arc is completely over and the show focus will return naturally on Regina and hers baby drama. Forget the aftermath and consequences for Emma and hers loved ones of the DS.

3)Emma returned as the protagonist of the show!

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KITSIS | He is hell-bent on saving Emma, so he is going to be quite active over the first 10 episodes.

I would believe this (or that Regina is not the Savior) when I see it. I don't trust anything A&E say, they have lied before. But I think this pretty much comfirms that the DS nonsense ends in episode 10, unless it means that Hook is killed in episode 10 (at this point, I don't know which option I prefer).

 

KITSIS | She’s clearly going to be hiding something from the audience that will be revealed as the first half of the season unfolds.

This would be something super contrived that would make no sense and would contradict what we already know about her childhood.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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I think they just mean the first 10 episodes are of him being active has to do with the fact that they are only promoting the first half of the season. Why would they promote the second half as well? I don't think they even know what they are going to write for the second half yet to be honest.

I'm not even going to try to understand I what secret Emma is hiding because ever sense we found out the pettiness of why Regina hates Snow I just always assume each secret is petty. Even Rumples reason to turn into the Dark One is petty to me or Hook spending 200 yrs getting revenge on someone.

I'm cackling that Eddy essentially threw Lana under the bus.

Edited by mjgchick
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This would be something super contrived that would make no sense and would contradict what we already know about her childhood.

 

Maybe it's something that could easily save her, but she's grown so accustomed the darkness she doesn't want to be cured. Not that she's like being evil, but I think she'll appreciate getting the power to do what she's always wanted and not be afraid.

 

Or you know, just some hidden contrived goal like Rumple wanting to turn Emma dark in 4B or Zelena's time travel spell.

 

 

The only thing is, I doubt Merlin would introduce himself as Merlin to wee!Emma. Maybe he tells her she's special and some day she'll find out, like it's his way of giving her hope or something and she wouldn't remember that until she comes face to face with him.

Yeah. Lots of people in exposed stuff to Emma in her past and she ignored them because they sounded crazy. Ingrid and Lily, for examples.

 

OUAT doesn’t just add characters for the sake of tie-ins. Sure, Frozen was still extremely popular when Elsa and Anna came on the show, but their storyline also introduced us to more of Emma’s past (and hinted at her dark side).

 

Because of out of control magic = dark side? Sometimes I wonder if the people who writes these articles are watching the same show.

 

 

“For us, our inspiration was always The Simpsons. You don’t see Disco Stu in every episode, but when you do, you know who he is. You know who Moe is. You know who runs the Kwik-E-Mart. You know who Principal Skinner is. You don’t see them every episode, but it fills the world out.”

That's a bad comparison, imo. Once Upon a Time has a universe that an elaborate lore and timeline. You can't just make characters disappear and reappear with no explanation like in a sitcom or cartoon. Especially with a character possessing such importance as Ruby.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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My wild guess is that Merlin shared some sort of prophecy with wee Young Emma that she would have to become the Dark One to ultimately defeat the Dark One, once and for all. But Emma didn’t take Merlin's prophecy seriously (naturally, because who the hell would) and forgot all about it until this situation with Dark Flubber happened. So, all this time Dark Swan is going around doing things that seem “dark" and "evil” to everyone, including the audience (though knowing this show her actions are more gray and less dark), but her reasons and actions have a greater purpose in that she’s trying to actually bring about a final end to Dark Flubber.

 

I could see it happening.

 

The only thing is, I doubt Merlin would introduce himself as Merlin to wee!Emma. Maybe he tells her she's special and some day she'll find out, like it's his way of giving her hope or something and she wouldn't remember that until she comes face to face with him.

 

I'm not sure that's it though because whatever Merlin tells wee!Emma, we're probably going to very likely be privy to. 

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From the Yahoo article linked to in the spoilers only thread (referring to Merida, but also referring back to the Frozen stuff):

 

OUAT doesn’t just add characters for the sake of tie-ins.

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this or I'd need a new laptop.

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I'm not sure that's it though because whatever Merlin tells wee!Emma, we're probably going to very likely be privy to.

Unless they handle it like August's reveal to Nealfire when August showed him *something* that convinced Nealfire to go along with whatever August said and dumping Emma in jail.  In that episode they didn't show the audience what Augusts "proof" was, they only showed Nealfire's reaction and the conseqeunces of his choice. It wasn't until several episodes later where Augustocchio's mystery "proof" was finally revealed to the audience (and it turned out to be a dang typewriter with a page in it that read, "I know you're Baelfire." *facepalm*. You seriously couldn't have just said that aloud, August/writers??? The writers strung along the audience about August's great mysterious proof and in the end revealed a. typewriter.)

 

ETA

The only thing is, I doubt Merlin would introduce himself as Merlin to wee!Emma. Maybe he tells her she's special and some day she'll find out, like it's his way of giving her hope or something and she wouldn't remember that until she comes face to face with him.

Ya, I'm just spitballing. Merlin doesn't necessarily need to tell wee!Emma who he is. Emma just needs to have that memory triggered so that she recalls what he told her when she was wee!Emma and that would set things into motion (assuming of course that Merlin interacts with wee!Emma at all and doesn't just lurk in the background...or maybe he just curses her as she walks by. Who knows...).

Edited by regularlyleaded
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I expect next season we'll see Emma murder a bunch of recurring characters (as explanation for why they're never around) and the mains will seriously discuss whether or not they should kill her. Bonus points if she kills Lily right after they learn Charming is Daddy.

I was looking at the first few pages of the Operation Mongoose reaction, and in light of the "Emma does something particularly evil." spoilers we were discussing earlier--and whether or not Emma would do stuff like kill Red, thought it was worth bringing over.

 

This idea has been bouncing around for a while.

 

Although I'm really hoping ScaryNikki's wrong about Charming being Lily's dad.

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I was looking at the first few pages of the Operation Mongoose reaction, and in light of the "Emma does something particularly evil." spoilers we were discussing earlier--and whether or not Emma would do stuff like kill Red, thought it was worth bringing over. 

 

I read a theory that Emma might end up killing Lily. Not sure how likely that is, but we haven't see the actress playing Lily in any of the spoiler pictures yet. Maybe that is Dark Swan's evil act that turns her over the edge... 

 

Although I'm really hoping ScaryNikki's wrong about Charming being Lily's dad.

 

That would be extremely unlikely, considering Lily's dad is supposed to be half-Dragon like Mal. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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I thought the primary speculation was that Charming killed Lily's dad while he was in dragon form when he was doing his princely dragon slaying. It would be the retcon of all retcons if Charming is Lily's dad because that would mean the previously unrevealed ability to turn into a dragon plus finding a way to fit that into the timeline, which is already packed pretty tight in that era. Depending on the dragon egg gestation period and how long the war lasted, that would have required Charming to have managed to turn into a dragon and have a fling with Maleficent either during the time he was being held prisoner by George or Regina or during the war.

 

I've wondered -- how much of the full-on Dark Swan thing is for real or is it possibly an act, and that's Emma's secret? She might be having to make everyone think she's all dark in order to carry out her plan, even though it's killing her to see how that hurts her loved ones, but she doesn't dare let them know because it could ruin the plan and put them in danger. She might still have the Darkness in her, but she might be managing it better than they realize. The all-black wardrobe, slicked-down hair and all that might be her cover, especially since it doesn't look like she just automatically or naturally looks like that upon becoming the Dark One.

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I've wondered -- how much of the full-on Dark Swan thing is for real or is it possibly an act, and that's Emma's secret? She might be having to make everyone think she's all dark in order to carry out her plan, even though it's killing her to see how that hurts her loved ones, but she doesn't dare let them know because it could ruin the plan and put them in danger. She might still have the Darkness in her, but she might be managing it better than they realize. The all-black wardrobe, slicked-down hair and all that might be her cover, especially since it doesn't look like she just automatically or naturally looks like that upon becoming the Dark One.

I could get on board with this and would kind of love it if Emma has a plan, but I am firmly convinced the writers want to make Emma more comparable to Regima so it's going to have to be something more than deception to tilt the scale more heavily to evil for Emma.

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I could get on board with this and would kind of love it if Emma has a plan, but I am firmly convinced the writers want to make Emma more comparable to Regima so it's going to have to be something more than deception to tilt the scale more heavily to evil for Emma.

I agree. And, speaking for myself, I feel like I'm starting to latch on to wishful thinking theories and speculation that maybe Emma is faking being evil simply because I find the Dark Swan storyline completely distasteful. (Yes, I'm a broken record. Emma made evil for doing something good will never not be screen smashing, table flipping, finger in the eye, maddening for me.)

 

From the tvline article:

TVLINE | Do you have anything else to say about 5A?

KITSIS | Yes — please watch it. Sundays at 8. Watch it live, the way it’s meant to be. [...]

 

Lies. If watched at all (ye brave souls) the episodes are best watched in the form of 1-2 minute length YouTube clips containing only the scenes with the characters of your liking or at least the ones that don't make you want to smash your screen (OUAT à la carte, as it were). And failing that, the best way to watch this show is with a DVR and your finger pressed down on the fast forward button for the duration. This way you can save up to 40 minutes of your life that you would otherwise never get back and still catch the one or two minutes that are worth a darn.

200_s.gif

Edited by regularlyleaded
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I read a theory that Emma might end up killing Lily. Not sure how likely that is, but we haven't see the actress playing Lily in any of the spoiler pictures yet. Maybe that is Dark Swan's evil act that turns her over the edge...

I'm not sure if killing Lily would give the writers the effect they'd want to go for. None of the townspeople know Lily that well. While it would be a tragedy that they'd be upset at Emma over, it would also be a little awkward. On the meta front, A&E might not want to kill off their Regina + Neal concoction this quickly.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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I read a theory that Emma might end up killing Lily. Not sure how likely that is, but we haven't see the actress playing Lily in any of the spoiler pictures yet. Maybe that is Dark Swan's evil act that turns her over the edge... 

 

A&E said that they wouldn't get to the Lily's dad story in the first five eps but do plan to get to it. (Yeah, I know, their promises and a dollar will get you a dollar.) And killing Lily wouldn't really be something done to Emma's family -- and, honestly, most viewers would probably either shrug or cheer -- so I don't think that's it.

 

I could get on board with this and would kind of love it if Emma has a plan, but I am firmly convinced the writers want to make Emma more comparable to Regima so it's going to have to be something more than deception to tilt the scale more heavily to evil for Emma.

 

Yeah, I'm sure the whole point of this entire arc is to bring Emma down to Regina's level, so she has to do something they can try to spin is as bad as things Regina did. (Emma would have to kill a shit ton of people for that to happen, but TS, TW.) A&E did mention Emma being smart, so it would be great if she has a plan to destroy the Dark One for good. But I have zero faith in these writers, so I don't expect that to actually be the case.

Edited by Souris
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Although I'm really hoping ScaryNikki's wrong about Charming being Lily's dad

It would conveniently explain why Snow saw her child as the Bad Spawn and Charming saw her as a sweet, innocent babe. Snow was seeing the future of her daughter and Charming was seeing the future of his other daughter.

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Emma's actions as Dark Swan have integrity but she does some thing (it was definitely singular in the quote) particularly bad to her loved ones.....racking my brain over that set of clues. ....

I keep coming back to the notion of memory wiping. Killian would hate if he had his memories of Emma removed (cos you know they'd all get them back in 1st ep 5b), theoretically Snowing and Henry would be devastated. Taking away memory of her frees them from the angst of seeing the darkness take over and lets them get on with their lives because they won't be consumed with finding a solution anymore. I can see Emma watching poignantly from the shadows as life goes on around her... then she flits off to enjoy her freedom from Savior-dom.

I don't know ...some thing particularly bad for the sake of the greater good but not quite so good for her family. A+E grade 'bad' on a sliding scale.....holding baby Snowflake hostage until they give him a proper name?

Edited by PixiePaws1
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I think we're probably looking at 5x05 in terms of whatever Emma's secret is and whatever she does. There's that whole line from Regina where she's calling Emma out about being selfish and Emma replies she doesn't have a choice.

 

I thought it might have to do with Henry, but maybe it's a lot more than that. 

 

All of a sudden, Emma is keep a secret that's apparently big enough that she might feel she can't tell her family or her boyfriend. So this is really starting to remind of when Snow went to Regina with hers and David's secret about Lily and Regina going undercover afterwards. If the secret concerns Snowing and Hook and I can see them not being happy about any of it.

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holding baby Snowflake hostage until they give him a proper name?

 

That would be fantastic. I'd stand up and applaud my TV if that happens.

 

Script tease:

She spins on him, livid.

Regina: Watch it. I know what I'm doing.

 

This has to be directed towards Hook, right? The only people who are allowed to call Regina out on her shit anymore are Hook and David, and considering Hook does something to set Zelena free, Regina would probably be the most livid with him at the moment. Or I suppose she could be yelling at one of the dwarves, but I can already foresee the writers setting up a situation where Regina has to "save the day" after Hook did something stupid with Zelena, which leads us to the street confrontation between Zelena and the gang.

Edited by Curio
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This has to be directed towards Hook, right? The only people who are allowed to call Regina out on her shit anymore are Hook and David, and considering Hook does something to set Zelena free, Regina would probably be the most livid with him at the moment.

 

Those are my thoughts and considering the end result of Robin nearly getting choked to death by his baby mama, I'm guessing Regina will be raging at Hook.

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If it makes you guys feel better, I tend to be wrong when I predict stories for shows (unless it's really obvious). The Charming theory will likely not happen, though I stand by thinking Emma will kill random recurrings to demonstrate how evil she is now.

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Those are my thoughts and considering the end result of Robin nearly getting choked to death by his baby mama, I'm guessing Regina will be raging at Hook.

 

Yep, it's a classic OUAT set up. Only Regina will be allowed to rage at Hook, even though Hook has just as much of a right—if not more—to be raging at Regina for being a total bitch to his girlfriend in Season 4 and for being the idiot who thought Operation Mongoose was a good idea, which lead to Hook's temporary death. I mean, I'd say Girlfriend-Is-Missing-And-Is-Now-The-Dark-One > Boyfriend-ALMOST-Getting-Choked if you're looking at who should be more livid during this episode, but that's just me...

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That little girl they cast to play Emma was dubbed "Chucky's bride" by some Y&R viewers. Just sayin'

 

See I always knew A&E were secretly diehard fans of that soap. But seriously her IMDB page looks pretty impressive for a kid. Never saw her anything but TVD and she played a sweet kid for the 2 seconds I saw her. I think this show's casting in general but particularly the kids have been outstanding. Except for the biggest kid part. That one was/is such a huge failure.

 

I'm looking forward to baby Emma and Merlin the most.

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The three women playing Emma all look like they could be related, sheesh. Their was that one post on tumblr I saw where it was a side by side pic of the three with their tongues hanging out. lol

Regina of all people should known what it feels like to.lose a significant other but at least Hook and Emma have been together for months and not 3 hours. She can calm down.

Edited by mjgchick
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But seriously her IMDB page looks pretty impressive for a kid.

 

No, she's good. I think she can act circles around some adult actors.

 

 

 

Regina of all people should known what it feels like to.lose a significant other but at least Hook and Emma have been together for months and not 3 hours. She can calm down.

 

And Regina of all people has been making comments since season 3 about "your boyfriend", "yearning looks and doey eyes", "making eyes at each other", and she was on the receiving end of Emma's confession in the AU and how Emma getting to have Hook back hinged on Regina going to Robin. So it's not like Regina doesn't have a clue about everything that's at stake here, from Henry, Snowing to Hook, to Emma.

 

That being said, I will take Hook and Regina bitching at each other. It always bugged me that they didn't have any scenes together after 3x01 and their talks were good and actually made sense.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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That being said, I will take Hook and Regina bitching at each other. It always bugged me that they didn't have any scenes together after 3x01 and their talks were good and actually made sense.

 

Oh, absolutely. I'll be extremely disappointed if we don't have at least one all-out screaming match between those two at some time during 5A. I can understand the writers not having them talk to each other throughout the entirety of Season 4 because Hook would have completely destroyed Regina's Operation Dumbass notions (And then we wouldn't have had any 4B plot. What a shame.), but Season 5 better have some heated conversations.

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That being said, I will take Hook and Regina bitching at each other. It always bugged me that they didn't have any scenes together after 3x01 and their talks were good and actually made sense.

 

Two villains who centered their lives around revenge for losing their lover on the path to redemption. They may have more in common than you'd think. How they handle it is completely different though, so seeing them together would be neat.

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Two villains who centered their lives around revenge for losing their lover on the path to redemption. They may have more in common than you'd think. How they handle it is completely different though, so seeing them together would be neat.

 

That's true—their motivations for becoming villains are very similar and they're both on similar villain-turned-hero story arcs at the moment. But their personalities and core character traits couldn't be more opposite. It's actually a pretty interesting dynamic that the writers set up and completely non-spoilery so I'll take the rest of my response to the All Seasons thread...

Edited by Curio
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I know this season will inevitably fall apart at some point and we'll all be disappointed in dropped plots and forgotten characters, but until then... this is pretty freaking badass and I need it like right now.

 

please A&E, don't fuck this up. Pretty please with cherry on top.

 

I'll second this. Please don't screw this up...please don't screw this up...please don't screw this up...

Edited by Curio
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