Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[retrograde]

Rumple talking to Regina, Cruella and Malificent. Rumple tears apart a page from the book, then Malificent waves her hand and Regina drops down on the ground.

 

 

This is the episode titled "Best Laid Plans" right? If the Regina double agent speculation is correct (I think it's a solid theory, though would Gold ever have believed her?), perhaps this is the episode where they find out and those plans go awry. 

 

Also, they're continuing to kill it with the Cruella outfits. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by retrograde

[KAOS Agent]

So I hate the all powerful author storyline, but one way I could get behind it is if the "We'll find him, Regina" from the promo refers to Henry and the villains have somehow affected the story so that Henry doesn't exist/is missing for 4B. This would officially make the author my favorite person ever. I can make this fit with these spoilers of Emma looking lost and bedraggled in town and in need of comfort from Hook, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

[kili]

Kind of strange. Are the villains changing reality with the book somehow? And only Emma can tell? She definitely looks bedraggled and confused.

 

Perhaps because Emma and Hook (and Henry) do not appear in the book (except as Princess Leia and Prince Charles), they are not affected by changes and retain their memories? Baby Emma is in the book, though (something A&E would easily hand-wave away if it messed with their plot idea). Or maybe the book is linked in with the Dark Curse and those who were not Dark Cursed (again, Emma, Hook and Henry, but also Marian, Ursula and Cruella) can see the changes?

 

If a page is ripped up, it never happened and one of the alternative pages takes its place effecting the rest of the book. Maybe Robin comes back not because he finds a way back to Storybrooke, but because his pages get re-written. Thus, he never leaves Storybrooke. Perhaps that is a way for them to cleanse the "ick" out of the relationship because New Robin won't have cheated on his dying wife in a crypt with her murderer. Marian and he will never marry. Meanwhile, Marian in our real world (who is not cursed) will be a little confused that Robin disappeared, but will actually be happy to be rid of that moping, drinking, cheating ne'er do well.

[Stuffy]

Emma burned pages in the book season one and nothing happened. There has to be more involved than just tearing the pages out causing change.

[YaddaYadda]

So I hate the all powerful author storyline, but one way I could get behind it is if the "We'll find him, Regina" from the promo refers to Henry and the villains have somehow affected the story so that Henry doesn't exist/is missing for 4B. This would officially make the author my favorite person ever.

 

It's not even funny how so very okay I am with this.  I'd worry that it might turn out to be another #SaveHenry and me weeping in my corner because I really don't want him saved.  I don't know that Rumple would go so far as to erase Henry from existence, but I can see him trying to bring Neal back.

 

I thought about something.  Again, given that Regina is very likely a double-agent [and at this point, I absolutely doubt anyone but Emma and perhaps Hook. (I mention him because of what they said was filmed last week and since we don't know if it was a fairyback or SB day) might know about this] and if Rumple and Co find out what she's doing, then maybe Regina is the one who ends up needing saving.  This is the best excuse the writers have to turn Regina all Evil Queen again in Storybrooke without anyone holding it against her.  It's like the stuff that Hook did, like putting the fairies in the hat which no one will hold against him since he did while he was being controlled.  Regina turning completely might prompt Emma to go and find Robin so that he may save Woegina since clearly, Henry is no longer enough for that woman.  Or maybe Snow can give a TLK or something.

 

 

 

Perhaps because Emma and Hook (and Henry) do not appear in the book (except as Princess Leia and Prince Charles), they are not affected by changes and retain their memories? Baby Emma is in the book, though (something A&E would easily hand-wave away if it messed with their plot idea). Or maybe the book is linked in with the Dark Curse and those who were not Dark Cursed (again, Emma, Hook and Henry, but also Marian, Ursula and Cruella) can see the changes?

I find this super interesting, but since "Charles" and "Leia" became instrumental in Snow and Charming meeting because the whole Snow Fall/Snow Drifts, then this might actually mess up that particular timeline again.

 

There's a pic of Maleficent holding something that looks like a picture from the book, so who knows what they're doing, but I'm actually very much down (surprisingly) with an AU type of thing.

Edited January 21, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

I wonder where is Ursula. I thought Cruella would be the first Queen to fall, but maybe it's her.

[YaddaYadda]

What about Will?

 

i think he was part of the original curse, wasn't he?  I watched the first episode of in Wonderland and he was in Storybrooke when the curse broke.

 

I don't think I can take Henry hanging to Emma's skirts, like seriously, I'll have to fast foward her if that happens (which means I might as well give up watching the show altogether).  I don't know that the Merry Men would even notice anything seeing as they live in the forest and seem to have very little interaction with anyone.  Marian and Robin are outside of Storybrooke so I don't know how they would be affected by any of this though I'm sure Robin and Regina will have some kind of telepathic connection where they can communicate through their souls or some nonsense like that and he'll know there's something wrong.

 

Does Regina living through the Groundhog Day she inflicted on everyone and being cursed, does that make her see the errors of her ways and how wrong what she did was?  I'd wager the answer to that will be a resounding "no".  Even when they returned to the EF last season and Hook congratulated her sarcastically on laying waste to the land, she rolled her eyes at him.  If there was ever a moment where she should have been a little self-aware...

[kili]

i think [Will]  was part of the original curse, wasn't he?

 

He was. It is also suspected that the second curse also dragged him from Wonderland and that is how he ends up in Storybrooke in Season 4.

 

Emma burned pages in the book season one and nothing happened. There has to be more involved than just tearing the pages out causing change.

 

The Continuity Fairy takes a vacation when A&E get a "Great Idea". They'll just hand-wave it away and say "burning isn't enough, you have to rip the page into pieces for it to count" or "MAGIC!"

[YaddaYadda]

So am I the only one getting the whole "Bonnie & Clyde" type of vibe from Maleficent and Cruella standing in those pics next to each other?  I know someone pointed out yesterday that they went all 50s with Maleficent's look and I wonder what the reason behind that is, I mean she even looks like she has a pocket watch.  She looks very gangster.

[Amerilla]

On a whole non sarcastic note, the boots Cruella is wearing make me wanna weep of envy.

 

She's clearly on track to knock Belle out of the running for Highest Heels. And unlike de Ravin, Smurfit isn't a shrimpykins to begins with. Out of curiosity, I looked it up, and she's 5ft8in - the same height as Carlyle, but as you can see in the pics, in those boots, she towers over him.

 

I know someone pointed out yesterday that they went all 50s with Maleficent's look and I wonder what the reason behind that is, I mean she even looks like she has a pocket watch.  She looks very gangster.

 

So Belle will also be out of the running for Gangster's Mol? :-)  

 

It is curious. I didn't see the Jolie movie, but I assume at no point does her Maleificent adopt mid-20th Century gangster couture?

Edited January 21, 2015 by Amerilla

[The Cake is a Pie]

The Continuity Fairy takes a vacation when A&E get a "Great Idea". They'll just hand-wave it away and say "burning isn't enough, you have to rip the page into pieces for it to count" or "MAGIC!"

They can't even use that excuse, since Regina ripped up the page(s) with her and Robin after he left town. We're probably not lucky enough for the show to come back and she acts like they never met. Alas, Continuity Fairy is probably in the hat with the rest of the fairies.

[YaddaYadda]

Regina ripped up that page that appeared out of thin air, so since it had never happened, it probably would not affect anything.  When the pages that were part of Emma's story (being in placed in the wardrobe and so on) were burned, magic wasn't used to do so.  A&E can just hand wave it and say that Rumple & Co used magic and spells to alter whatever.

[Shanna Marie]

Are the villains changing reality with the book somehow? And only Emma can tell? She definitely looks bedraggled and confused.

I have sometimes joked that this show and Haven are essentially the same show, with this just being the Disney version while Haven is the Stephen King version -- snarky blonde in law enforcement and with a mysterious past shows up in a strange Maine town where she seems to be immune to the strange goings on and might be the key to breaking the town's "curse" -- but that really would be a very Haven plot (that they've done several times) if reality is altered and only Emma is aware of the changes. It would be nice if Hook is also immune due to being outside the curse or outside the book so that the two of them would be able to work together (it would at least give them something to do).

[Writing Wrongs]

Whatever happened, happened. Oh wait, wrong show.

[RadioGirl27]

This filming spoiler round-up is depressing. It doesn't include yesterday shooting, but it mentions Colin twice and Emilie once. Everything else is Lana, Robert, Merrin, Kristin and Victoria.

[Souris]

Written descriptions suggest otherwise, but in the Hook & Emma filming photos from last night, he looks to me less comforting than tense/stiff/like he’s holding back. And the way the camera is positioned is to show a close-up on his face. So I suspect he knows something about whatever is going on that he hasn’t told Emma about (::headdesk::), or he’s been changed somehow by whatever the villains may have done to change things via the book. So, dundundun angst.

 

I wonder if he’s still bound by the deal he made with Rumple to do whatever to get his hand removed after the reattachment debacle. I would hope he’d nullify that when he gets his hand on the dagger.

 

I hope yet another body part of his hasn’t been cursed.

 

Also, here's a closeup of the book page the villains had. Looks like a door.

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, he looks stiffen. Maybe it's just that he is tense because of the situation and not because they have problems or because he is keeping secrets from her.

Nah, it's this show. Rumple and his girls have probably cursed him.

[YaddaYadda]

Probably in the minority, but I doubt he's been cursed or anything like that.  There's a number of reasons he can be feeling that way.  R & Co (this is going to be my name for Rumple and the Queens of Darkness moving forward because I refuse to type that mouth full)  are running around, we have no idea what the context of the scenes is.  Apparently everyone and their mother has a history with these women because whatever the writers are batshit crazy.  After the whole lips and then the hand and the heart, I think Hook is off the hook (so did not intend on that, but it stays).  

 

I saw something, a new store front that's called "Animal Feed" (I think that's the name) and it has the picture of a cow and Bo Peeps place is called Chop Shop which made me laugh.  I did not catch if they had that in 4A.

[kili]

I wonder if he’s still bound by the deal he made with Rumple to do whatever to get his hand removed after the reattachment debacle. I would hope he’d nullify that when he gets his hand on the dagger.

 

Hook already broke the deal. That's why Rumple had to lash him to the gate while he was trying to hat Emma and then take his heart. Rumple needed the heart eventually, but he had to speed up the timeline because he lost control of Hook and Hook knew too much. Rumple's deals are of his own making. He can decide to punish you and how if you break the deal. He can also punish you if you keep the deal and he's just in the mood. His deals are just little games he plays to while away the time. He loves setting up deals where heads he wins, tails you lose. Then he laughs at you for being stupid.

 

Hook should just use the dagger to make Rumple unable to harm him or anybody else. That won't work because Rumple can find a way around any rule, but it might slow him down for a few minutes. It's stupid not to at least try it. Surely, A&E will let the heros be at least that smart - no? They can handwave around it, so why not let the good guys have a crumb of intelligence for a few minutes? They have the dagger in their hands for six weeks. Anna managed as much in the 2 minutes she had it.

 

I saw something, a new store front that's called "Animal Feed" (I think that's the name) and it has the picture of a cow and Bo Peeps place is called Chop Shop which made me laugh.

 

I'm a little disappointed with the name of the store "Storybrooke Animal Feed". They aren't even go to bother with a pun? That used to be half the fun of these new store names. Maybe Villian-Happy-Ever-After-World is pun free? Where is that sign? On the wall they built the sherrif's office in front of?

[retrograde]

Some very clear photos of the Snow and Charming scenes here.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Some very clear photos of the Snow and Charming scenes here.

So, it appears Robert was holding as script, not a dagger. That's a little relieving.

 

Anyone else find it weird Rumple and the Queens are just walking around Storybrooke in broad daylight, having little chats?

Edited January 22, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

Anyone else find it weird Rumple and the Queens are just walking around Storybrooke in broad daylight, having little chats?

Yep. I'm pretty sure this is the first time (we know of) that Rumple has been out in daylight in 4B. 

[retrograde]

Discussion with one of the fans on set yesterday:

Kirstie ‏@kirstiejk2191  
@BastardSonVan @LauBayOUAT pic.twitter.com/n9cQE50YJ2

 

Larry Andreutti ‏@BastardSonVan  
@kirstiejk2191 @LauBayOUAT I think when "Regina drops down", she is being poofed away by Maleficent; I think the call is from Henry

Kirstie ‏@kirstiejk2191  
@BastardSonVan @LauBayOUAT what you mean call from Henry

Larry Andreutti
‏@BastardSonVan
@kirstiejk2191 @LauBayOUAT The cue Josh/Ginny got from the director before they answered the phone was "call from Henry"

 

[YaddaYadda]

Larry Andreutti ‏@BastardSonVan 

@kirstiejk2191 @LauBayOUAT I think when "Regina drops down", she is being poofed away by Maleficent; I think the call is from Henry

 

Oh this is going to turn into a #SaveRegina, isn't it?  Gosh, it's not even 7am yet and I already hate my life and how Maleficent is the owner of the sleeping curse and how Regina wanted to put herself under the sleeping curse in 3B and how in 3B, Henry would probably have been enough to awaken her from it, but now we all know Regina has her sights set on someone else.  If she's a double-agent then everyone will do everything they can to save her.

 

These thoughts are so depressing.

[RadioGirl27]

Oh, God. Maleficent is going to put Regina under a very special sleeping course that only her soulmate can break and that way all her victims would unite and put their lifes in danger to go and find him. Depressing indeed.

[Shanna Marie]

Written descriptions suggest otherwise, but in the Hook & Emma filming photos from last night, he looks to me less comforting than tense/stiff/like he’s holding back.

Remember that we're seeing a different angle and framing than the actual TV camera is seeing. For one thing, we're seeing him from the hook side of his body, and I imagine that not only would Hook be careful about how he holds Emma on that side, but Colin also probably has to be careful not to scratch that very expensive leather jacket she's wearing. Then in the part where she's resting her head against his shoulder, for at least some of the takes they'll want her face to be visible, so he might have to cheat and move that shoulder forward a bit and he wouldn't be able to squeeze her as tightly as someone might in that situation in real life because they wouldn't want to smoosh her face up against him. Viewed from the other side, it might look perfectly okay -- like, I wonder how the part where Hook held Emma while she watched Snow be burned at the stake would have looked if we'd seen the opposite angle. And we're missing context. His face looking grim and intense could mean "I hate that I can't tell Emma that my big toe is cursed" or it could be "I hate that Emma is this upset and it makes me want to go hunt down and hurt whoever did this to her" or it could be "I want to comfort Emma, but I have no clue how we're going to get out of this."

[Souris]

JMo is at Sundance. It's obvious when she's not filming, as opposed to some of the other cast, because she always leaves town. I swear, she has been out of town more often than she’s been in Vancouver filming this year. My interest in The Queens of Darkness Show (co-starring Regina and Rumple) aka 4B continues to wane.

 

"Focusing on the core characters," my eye.

[kili]

"Focusing on the core characters," my eye.

 

This is why there needs to be an A&E translator plug-in for this site.

 

"Core Characters" = Regina

 

Therefore:

"Focusing on the core characters,"

roughly translates to "It's all about Regina with a side  serving of Rumple and a soupçon of the rest of the cast".

[KingOfHearts]

 

"Focusing on the core characters," my eye.

Silly Souris - Emma's not a core character! ;)

[YaddaYadda]

The thing is, we don't really know what's being taped at all.  And 3B last season had minimal Emma and then two hours of her and Hook running around the Enchanted Forest.   We were expecting something like this for 4B, so it's not really shocking.  

 

I feel way reasonable right now.

[scenicbyway]

JMo is at Sundance. It's obvious when she's not filming, as opposed to some of the other cast, because she always leaves town. I swear, she has been out of town more often than she’s been in Vancouver filming this year. My interest in The Queens of Darkness Show (co-starring Regina and Rumple) aka 4B continues to wane.

 

"Focusing on the core characters," my eye.

I'm headed to Sundance myself.  If I see her, I'll ask why Emma is MIA so far.  So far it looks like Emma's in what 5 minutes of each episode?  More than Will but less than everyone else.  Speaking of Will, is he even still on the show?  I can't imagine they'll have time for his story too.

 

If they go the "Save Henry" route again, I might have to fast forward through everything but Captain Swan.

[retrograde]

A very sharp eye on tumblr points out that the door and background in the torn storybook page from Tuesday's filming looks a lot like Jefferson's hat portal.

 

Apparently Josh, Ginnifer, Victoria, and Merrin filmed today.

 

Adam posted a very blurry BTS pic. No idea what that is even supposed to be. 

[YaddaYadda]

So those graphic novels, would they have anything to do with the show?  I never really paid attention to those things.  I mean they have no reason to go with Jefferson since he is no longer on the show (unless they're planning to recast because I doubt Sebastian Stan has the time for this), and now the door in the book might have a connection to him in some form.

 

Then looking at Regina's heart box, the drawing, I never really paid attention to what the physical box looked like and I know a lot of people are not down with the whole PoTC, but that box is straight out of the Dead man's chest, not to mention the whole "Poseidon's Bone Yard" vs "Davy Jones' Locker".

 

I put this in here because of the page from the book "discussion".

[Selina K]

 

And 3B last season had minimal Emma and then two hours of her and Hook running around the Enchanted Forest.

 

I'm going to focus on this in an attempt to get a little more enthusiastic about 4B.  If I can get another finale with two episodes of Emma and Hook, I'll settle in to watch the 8 previous episodes where they are minimized.  What other iconic 80's movies can they squeeze into the show? Raiders or the Lost Ark? Breakfast Club?  Pee Wee's Big Adventure? ET? Return of the Jedi?  There must be some fanfic out there with all or a combination of these, right?

[retrograde]

So those graphic novels, would they have anything to do with the show?.

I'm just guessing, but I'd be surprised if they impacted the plot much, just because the vast majority of people who watch this show probably do so pretty casually and have no idea the comics exist. I assume they are canon, though.

That said, the door thing IS weird for sure, because I agree it's unlikely Sebastian Stan is dropping I for a cameo. Maybe there are other ways to get to that portal room?

[Serena]

I'm going to focus on this in an attempt to get a little more enthusiastic about 4B.  If I can get another finale with two episodes of Emma and Hook, I'll settle in to watch the 8 previous episodes where they are minimized.  What other iconic 80's movies can they squeeze into the show? Raiders or the Lost Ark? Breakfast Club?  Pee Wee's Big Adventure? ET? Return of the Jedi?  There must be some fanfic out there with all or a combination of these, right?

Same. An Emma-focused 4A didn't give me nearly as much satisfaction as the 3B finale. If they do it again, I'll be all for it.

[Mari]

That said, the door thing IS weird for sure, because I agree it's unlikely Sebastian Stan is dropping I for a cameo. Maybe there are other ways to get to that portal room?

If they really wanted the character, they might recast--they've done it before, with Robin and Ursula.

[Amerilla]

I think the graphic novels will exist separate from the show - writers are usually given little slots in the timeline where they can play without doing anything that really impacts the story that's been told (or might be told) on the show. Usually, it's considered canonical to the superfans that keep track of canon, but it doesn't change anything for the general fans who only watch the show itself.

 

At least, that's how it worked back in the Dark Ages, when I had an embarrassingly large collection of Han Solo/Star Wars novels. :-)

[SilverShadow]

If they really wanted the character, they might recast--they've done it before, with Robin and Ursula.

 

Way back around season 2 there were rumors that they wanted to do a Mad Hatter spinoff and recast the character since Stan is so busy. Fans were not happy at the idea of a recast. And said so. Loudly.

[YaddaYadda]

I really didn't care for the Mad Hatter (or Sebastian Stan though I do enjoy him as the Winter Soldier), but it's always nice to see fandom dictating what things should be.  Can't they just put on their big boy pants and stop catering.  It drives me nuts to read stuff about how fans are so vocal about something that the writers give them what they want.  I wish I could go back to simpler time and be blissfully ignorant.

 

But now I can't because I'm like a fucking addict.  I blame all of you for my condition btw.  I'm just sayin'.

[Shanna Marie]

What other iconic 80's movies can they squeeze into the show? Raiders or the Lost Ark? Breakfast Club?  Pee Wee's Big Adventure? ET? Return of the Jedi?

I'm actually a little disappointed that they didn't work The Empire Strikes Back into the Frozen arc, with Hook frozen in ice rather than carbonite as the cliffhanger.

 

It's weird that they apparently recognize the ratings value of a grand Emma and Hook adventure, since they dedicated two hours of season finale to that, but they don't bother to fit their stories into the regular episodes very often and instead tend to focus on stories and characters that are associated with ratings drops.

 

I think with most tie-in material, the "rule" is that they're supposed to be based on the canon at the time they're written and could be considered canon until or unless the source material show goes in a different direction, and the source isn't obligated by canon established in tie ins.

[Serena]

Recasting Jefferson would be a mistake. However, if they need to do a story featuring his hat (rather then the 45225 other methods of world-hopping they've shown), it'll be easy enough to go "here's this guy, he also has a magic hat/he used to own the hat before Jefferson and knows how to use it/etc). It's a simple enough alternative to recasting. But I mean, I thought making current!Robin the child of Lacey!Robin and Marian, who's also called Robin after his father, would have been an obvious alternative to recasting, and they didn't take it.

[KingOfHearts]

They don't need Jefferson to go to the hat room. Regina came into possession of the hat, so it could be her who is portal jumping.

[legaleagle53]

If they really wanted the character, they might recast--they've done it before, with Robin and Ursula.

 

That had been the plan, originally, but Sebastian's fans raised such an uproar at the suggestion that the plan was abandoned.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Recasting Ursula and Robin were fine, because the first didn't even physically appear on the show and the other was only on a single ep way back when. Jefferson would be too hard to recast because he was in multiple episodes and had actual interaction and chemistry with the rest of the cast.

I would like to have him back, but I don't think he will be. It's likely they're looking for the hat. I guess Regina still has its tattered remains.

[kili]

They don't need Jefferson to go to the hat room. Regina came into possession of the hat, so it could be her who is portal jumping.

 

They can only do that in a Fairback The wraith (or whatever) destroyed Jefferson's Hat. They would need to recast the hat as well.

 

A very sharp eye on tumblr points out that the door and background in the torn storybook page from Tuesday's filming looks a lot like Jefferson's hat portal.

 

Will we just see the consequences in Storybrooke of the destruction of the page?  Why do I think they think the succes of the 3B finale was because they re-wrote Fairybacks and now they are going to have an entire half-season where they are re-writing them. Man, that would be a total gift to A&E where they can retcon anything they want. It's like they are living a Fairytale. I hope that we get some new stories and not just "choose-your-own-adventure" versions of the ones we already have.

[MaiLuna]

Matt's Inside Line

 

 

Is there any chance for Captain Swan scoop from Once Upon a Time? I miss them dearly! –Sarah
Series coceator Adam Horowitz tells me that when Season 4B arrives on March 1, “The tables are turned” for the Storybrooke lovebirds when “Hook, after having Emma return his heart, will now have to fight to protect Emma’s heart.” From what, I/we can only wonder….

 

I thought we were gonna see Emma fighting for Hook this season...I love CS but I would want them to be a little less one-sided.

[kili]

“The tables are turned” for the Storybrooke lovebirds when “Hook, after having Emma return his heart, will now have to fight to protect Emma’s heart.”

 

How is that turning the tables? Unless that is a 360 degree turn of the tables. She spends the entire season completely oblivious to his heart issue and then spends one 23 second scene shoving his heart back in. What, is his "fighting to protect Emma's heart" going to consist of? Spending one 23 second scene convincing her not to eat a french fry?

 

And OMG!!!!!ELEVENTY-ONE!!!!Somebody's heart is in need of protection. What a novel new concept for this show. It's nice we are getting such new and innovative plot ideas this season. Not at all old plots wearing a new (re-casted) hat.

[KingOfHearts]

 

They can only do that in a Fairback The wraith (or whatever) destroyed Jefferson's Hat. They would need to recast the hat as well.

Yes. Regina used it for Hook to get to Cora in the fairybacks. It could also be that the page is in fact from the events of Hat Trick.

 

 

I thought we were gonna see Emma fighting for Hook this season...I love CS but I would want them to be a little less one-sided.

Well considering all Emma did was shove Hook's heart back into his chest, Emma hasn't really done any fighting at all. She took no part in saving Hook.

Edited January 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

::headdesk:: repeatedly. Clearly we have seen NOTHING of the promised Emma fighting for Hook. Shoving his heart back in with one foot out the door to go drink with Regina is NOT fighting for him. But, sure, Adam, Hook fighting to protect Emma is completely turning the tables from what we've seen so far. In the sense that it's completely NOT.