Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[retrograde]

I'm not sure the ice cream truck is relevant. There was a BTS comment last fall saying that production uses the truck to transport stuff.

Oh yeah, I know that, I just find it funny that they do. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Having said that, he'll probably turn out to be the Sorcerer.

I'm putting my money in that basket for sure. It's this show after all.

 

(I'd love for Blue to be the Author, Sorcerer and Black Fairy rolled into one, but nothing that clever would ever happen.)

Edited January 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

Bit more info from Deadline:

 

On Once, Fischler will play a peddler (name used on the breakdowns is Gorin) who comes across as well-intentioned but is actually a quick-witted, arrogant man with reckless impulses. His character will be seen in both worlds — the fantasy one and Storybrooke — and is said to be crucial to the show’s mythology.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Crucial to the show's mythology? Or to the show's PLOT? I'm not sure there's a difference with this show.

[RadioGirl27]

Crucial to the show's mythology? Yeah, he is either the sorcerer or the Author, probably both.

I "love" how the writers said that they were going to concentrate in the core cast but they keep adding new recurring characters.

Edited January 16, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I swear, the cast of this show is so bloated, it's not even funny anymore.  I'm assuming he'll be getting his own back story since he is important to the show's mythology, whatever that means.  

 

ETA-

So Peddler is actually part of the Aladdin movie, he's the storyteller from what I gather?  I haven't seen the movie in like aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages!   So these people might actually be standing around with the Author to whom that big mansion belongs since apparently a bunch of empty books that look like the Once Upon a Time book is a clue.  *sigh*

Edited January 16, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

Okay, so we heard yesterday that Regina, Hook and Smee filmed with this peddler, and we were speculating it was in the EF. Hey, I know! They meet the peddler/author in flashbacks, Hook is polite but Regina makes a crack about how he should lay off the buffett because he's fat. The vengeful author takes offense and starts interfering with Regina's happy ending, even though she was just concerned for his health and was really trying to do a good deed!

[Amerilla]

I think the writers need to be asked if they know who the core cast is at this point.

 

I'm sure the Accounting Department has a good idea what the core cast is: the people getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, a year to stand around gap-mouthed while the Special Guest du Jour exposits their eeeevil plans, or acting out the same six scenes over and over and over again. I'm sure they can tell you how much they shell out every time Carlyle utters "cleave," or how much they're contributing to Jared's college fund each time he says "mom," or the per-minute cost breakdown of Emilie "sleeping" on-screen through three entire episodes. It's a lot of talent they have standing around, spinning their wheels.

 

Another Lost alumni.

 

Wow, they're really draining that well, aren't they? 

[YaddaYadda]

I guess that's a reason they don't have the budget to give Emma her own place.  I doubt any of these recurring characters especially this upcoming second half is cheap even if they pay them per episode or whatever.  

[RadioGirl27]

I guess that's a reason they don't have the budget to give Emma her own place. I doubt any of these recurring characters especially this upcoming second half is cheap even if they pay them per episode or whatever.

Yeah. And they have to pay Socha for appearing in the credits.

Every new spoiler makes me less and less interested in 4B. It's going to be such a trainwreck.

Edited January 16, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[kili]

The man with many caps is a Peddler. Maybe he just stands around and shakes his fist at the other characters until they throw hats at him.

 

So Peddler is actually part of the Aladdin movie, he's the storyteller from what I gather?

 

This is Once, so they would probably cast one of the few non-European Disney cartoon characters with an actor of European descent.

 

Maybe they could afford to give Emma a tent.

 

Robin's is now free.

Edited January 16, 2015 by kili

[Emma]

Every new spoiler makes me less and less interested in 4B. It's going to be such a trainwreck.

Same here. Especially since we have a big bag of nothing for Emma.

I was optimistic when the evil trio were brought in. That was under the thinking they were going to enter SB and snark and tear stuff up. Instead they're BFFs with Regina and working with Rumple to find happy endings.

I can't even get excited about the few Hook tidbits we've gotten.

[YaddaYadda]

Actual spoilers will probably start trickling in sometime in the second or third week of February.  It was like that last season.  Even the promo they're showing right now is the same one they showed from the winter finale.  I'm sort of surprised nothing came out of the TCA.  Actually, I'm not even sure Once was present.  

 

Never mind, scratch that.  I really don't keep track of these things and rely on your guys to inform me, so one of you is not doing their job ;)

[Curio]

I'm sort of surprised nothing came out of the TCA. Actually, I'm not even sure Once was present.

 

According to this live feed update of the TCA event, it looks like Once wasn't talked about...well...once. (Sorry.) 

Edited January 16, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

According to this live feed update of the TCA event, it looks like Once wasn't talked about...well...once. (Sorry.) 

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

[retrograde]

There is some talk on Twitter that there will be filming in Steveston on Tuesday, so there will probably be a few spoilers there.

[Selina K]

This wouldn't happen, right - where Hook and Regina confront the peddler / possible author and he says well you can have a happy ending but not the one you think you get and then he writes Regina and Hook instead of Regina and Robin.  That wouldn't happen, right?  See the dark places you lead my mind to, writers, with your lack of follow through - I just assume you're jumping on some bizarre crazy train. 

[Souris]

My guess is that the peddler isn't the Author, but might be a conduit to him because he gets around, knows people and acquires/sells lots of things, probably of a magical origin.

[sharky]

I wouldn't worry too much about the TCA snub. They use the meeting to push their new shows. I am surprised we didn't get anything from the media party last night but again, the media will probably report on those things later after the focus on the new shows dies down.

[Serena]

No Once people were at the TCA party. The actors were filming in Canada, so it's understandable they wouldn't come just for a party, but usually A&E attend. I'm guessing they were busy this time!

[RadioGirl27]

No Once people were at the TCA party. The actors were filming in Canada, so it's understandable they wouldn't come just for a party, but usually A&E attend. I'm guessing they were busy this time!

They probably were deciding wich Lost actor cast next (dudes, Josh Holloway is the only right answer) or trying to find something to do to Michael Socha.

In other news, Sean Maguire has confirmed in some convention what we already knew, that Robin is coming back.

[KAOS Agent]

In other news, Sean Maguire has confirmed in some convention what we already knew, that Robin is coming back.

 

Which just makes all the endless angst about Robin leaving forever a waste of time and space. Compare and contrast the ten minutes of Robin leaving in the 4A finale with the twenty seconds of Hook's goodbye to Emma in 3A and tell me which one was more emotional and effective. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Selina K]

Pretty good summation of 'what we know so far' about Seasons 4B from Zap2it.

 

On the CS front, I'm not sure I had heard / read that Hook will try to be there for Emma as Elsa has left to return to Arendelle.  My first instinct there was to write 'fill the void'' and then I changed my wording.  I'm kind of interested to see if they really integrate Jiminy Cricket into the season or if we basically get a reaction shot, "Oh no, it's Cruella! Run Pongo!" and then we never hear about it again.

[Serena]

I hope something totally bonkers happens during filming in Steveston next week, because I'm so bored with the spoilers so far. Maybe Snow and Rumple can make out.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Flashbacks will focus on pre-curse Storybrooke: The "OUAT" bosses also say that a lot of the flashbacks will occur in the Enchanted Forest and in Storybrooke during a Season 1 timeframe, before Emma (Jennifer Morrison) came to town and the curse was broken. This means more Evil Queen Regina (Lana Parrilla) and some familiar faces returning.

This is the only section of the article I found intriguing. Pre-Emma Storybrooke might have some interesting events, as long as its nothing like Welcome to Storybrooke. They've got 28 years to fill here.

 

 

However, [Hook] will be seeking revenge against Rumple.

I know this is just the article writer talking, but no. Just no.

[Amerilla]

My favorite knee-slappers from Zap2it:

 

 

"Our Cruella may have a different backstory than the one that people may remember from the movie."

 

Adam-speak for "this character will bear absolutely no resemblance to Cruella other than physical." Watch Pongo turn out to be her long-lost brother, turned into a dalmatian by Rumpel for drunkenly peeing on a carpet in the Dark Castle.

 

 

Eion Bailey returns as August/Pinocchio

 

AW, HELL NO. Why?? Whhhhyyyy....!!!

 

 

"For us, we wanted to introduce him [Will] in the first half and slowly integrate him into our world so that the audience would start asking these questions and demand to see more of him,"'

 

Yeah, Eddy, that's not happening. There's no Knave-buzz building. It's more like people wondering why he's still hanging around. I can't name a character that's had a slower roll out than this guy. My assumption is still that the franchise was contractually stuck with him after OUATIW got axed, and it's cheaper just to put him in the credits than pay out.

 

 

O'Donoghue explained during a recent Zap2it set visit that Hook will help fill the void left by Elsa (Georgina Haig) going back to Arendelle.

 

As many of you know, I couldn't locate my interest in Hook with a high-powered microscope and pair of tweezers, but even I feel a little bad that the guy whose been following Emma like a starved dog for what feels like the last 90 years or so is left "filling the void" created by a person Emma knew for less than two weeks.

 

 

 

Maybe Snow and Rumple can make out.

 

Now that would be a Shocking! Twist!! I'm totally down with that.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Amerilla

[Serena]

This is the first time I've heard about S1 Storybrooke flashbacks. Are we sure it comes from the writers, and it's not something zap2it made up to add some interest to their article?

 

If it's true, you know what it means: some more retconning about how Regina was just an OMG so loving and wonderful! mother in season 1 all along.

[Camera One]

They also said more pre-Curse flashbacks.  

 

So basically ret-conning left, right and center.  Making certain characters look bad (probably Snow and Charming, and maybe even Emma), while making other characters look better (Regina, maybe Rumple, and probably August).

Edited January 17, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

Flashbacks will focus on pre-curse Storybrooke: The "OUAT" bosses also say that a lot of the flashbacks will occur in the Enchanted Forest and in Storybrooke during a Season 1 timeframe, before Emma (Jennifer Morrison) came to town and the curse was broken. This means more Evil Queen Regina (Lana Parrilla) and some familiar faces returning.

I really do not care at all about pre-Emma Storybrooke. They can't show Henry in those flashbacks anymore since he's too old now, Emma won't be there, and Hook wasn't brought over in the curse. So that's two of my favorite characters I can count on not showing up for any of those flashbacks. (Take a wild guess which two out of the three I listed are my favorites...) God, 4B just does not sound fun.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Curio

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not sure how they could make Emma look bad pre-curse. Unless she spit up on the floor causing Regina to slip and fall, thus making it impossible for Regina to kill the life ruining Emma. Pre-Emma Storybrooke isn't interesting either since we've already seen them doing basically the same thing over and over again. Retconning that would be stupid and counterproductive because the whole point of "Welcome to Storybrooke" and even "Save Henry" was to show that Regina was bored and unfulfilled by the monotony of Storybrooke. And if we get a bunch of happy mommy/child scenes between Henry and Regina, I'm done with this show.

 

 

Maybe Snow and Rumple can make out.

 

Ginny & Bobby should get right on that. It needs to happen right in the middle of Main Street. They should recreate the Snow! Charming! moment of the Season 1 finale. If there's no stopping the horrible author story, my new dream is that he agrees to write it differently and starts fucking with everyone by creating things like Golden Snow.

[Camera One]

I really do not care at all about pre-curse Storybrooke. 

 

By pre-Curse flashbacks, they meant Enchanted Forest (Storybrooke would still be after-Curse).  So I guess there'll be flashbacks of Evil Queen/Snowing/Rumple/Queens of Darkness plus some flashbacks of Storybrooke after Emma arrived.  Both of those could involve retconning.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

By pre-Curse flashbacks, they meant Enchanted Forest (Storybrooke would still be after-Curse). So I guess there'll be flashbacks of Evil Queen/Snowing/Rumple/Queens of Darkness plus some flashbacks of Storybrooke after Emma arrived. Both of those could involve retconning.

 

Sorry, I fixed my original post. I meant I don't care about pre-Emma Storybrooke. I interpreted the spoiler to mean that we wouldn't be getting flashbacks of Storybrooke after Emma arrived.

[Camera One]

In that case, I agree that wouldn't be very interesting.  Didn't they already establish it was pretty much Groundhog Day?  And clearly, they're not going to be able to show Henry, so what's the point.

[RadioGirl27]

Pretty good summation of 'what we know so far' about Seasons 4B from Zap2it.

Nope, there's nothing there that makes me intetested in 4B.

[Mari]

They should recreate the Snow! Charming! moment of the Season 1 finale. If there's no stopping the horrible author story, my new dream is that he agrees to write it differently and starts fucking with everyone by creating things like Golden Snow.

Now I want this.  I want this enough to ignore that their ship name reminds me of the dog park in winter.  (Only for an episode or two, mind, but I still want it.)

[KingOfHearts]

 

They should recreate the Snow! Charming! moment of the Season 1 finale. If there's no stopping the horrible author story, my new dream is that he agrees to write it differently and starts fucking with everyone by creating things like Golden Snow.

 

Replying in Wish thread.

[Souris]

Pretty good summation of 'what we know so far' about Seasons 4B from Zap2it.

 

Oh my God, it all sounds so utterly BLECH! And the article really didn't even go into the godawful Author plot, even the thought of which is trying to suck out my soul even as I type.

 

I think I'm going to get much more enjoyment out of this forum than the show.

[retrograde]

I mean, a lot of those spoilers are just little tidbits, not so much massive plot points. But just to be the voice of dissent, there is some stuff in there I am excited about:

 

• More evil Rumple
• The Ursula episode sounds like it could be really interesting
• August's return. I feel like there were a lot of loose ends with that character.
• Hook backstory
• I liked what I saw of Cruella in 4.11, and I'm interested to see what they do with her and how she fits into the Enchanted Forest

 

Anyway. I know this show has a bad history with its second half-seasons and there is a danger that they will try to cram way too much into 11 episodes, but I am remaining optimistic until that actually happens. A lot of people said "this sounds terrible!" to every. single. spoiler from 4a, and in the end, I think it turned out pretty good (the weak finale notwithstanding). That season also added three major-ish characters (Elsa, Anna, DQ) and a bunch of supporting characters for their backstories, but I don't think that was a problem in the end. 

[Dianthus]

Pretty good summation of 'what we know so far' about Seasons 4B from Zap2it.

 

On the CS front, I'm not sure I had heard / read that Hook will try to be there for Emma as Elsa has left to return to Arendelle.  My first instinct there was to write 'fill the void'' and then I changed my wording.  I'm kind of interested to see if they really integrate Jiminy Cricket into the season or if we basically get a reaction shot, "Oh no, it's Cruella! Run Pongo!" and then we never hear about it again.

I remember reading that 'on the CS front' bit, and I wonder about it. Emma and Elsa's friendship was based on them both having magic and how they each had trouble controlling it and being misunderstood/feared by others. Hook doesn't have magic, so that's out. Maybe it's just them spending more time together (not hard). Maybe he'll be Emma's Anna in some way? Just being her friend (when he wants to be so much more) doesn't seem like much of a promotion, but I guess you could argue it's a start.

[Souris]

Honestly, I doubt it will mean much of anything. It sounds to me like Colin projecting or assuming rather than it being an actual plot point. Much like JMo saying that Emma would play a big part in Hook getting his heart back. I mean, technically I guess it was correct in that she put/shoved it back, but it didn't mean anything close to what we thought.

 

So any Storybrooke flashbacks will be minus Emma and Hook, who weren't there yet; Charming, who was in a coma; and Henry, who they can't  de-age that much despite their insistence that he's still pre-teen. The last one, meh, but given that the others are my three favorite characters -- I couldn't care less to see the flashbacks. They'll be all Regina, Rumple and Mary Margaret, with perhaps some dwarves or the like thrown in. Snore.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Souris

[RadioGirl27]

Honestly, I doubt it will mean much of anything. It sounds to me like Colin projecting or assuming rather than it being an actual plot point. Much like JMo saying that Emma would play a big part in Hook getting his heart back. I mean, technically I guess it was correct in that she put/shoved it back, but it didn't mean anything close to what we thought.

I wouldn't think too much about this. That quote is from an interview done the weekend of the finale, so of course Colin was asked about Elsa and the void she was going to leave, and he gave a very normal answer (Emma is going to miss her friend but she would have her boyfriend to help her). Anyway, A&E want us to believe that Emma and Regina are BFF, so I doubt they are going to show Emma missing Elsa, maybe a mention of her but nothing more.

[Amerilla]

Per Tumblr, Twitter: Robert and Emilie were filming something Friday - Saturday that required a stunt double for Robert.

[Shanna Marie]

You know, when you put all the info about 4B together, it starts to sound suspicious similar to 2B:

 

We have multiple villains -- Hook, Cora, Greg and Tamara and a flip-flopping Regina in 2B; the Queens of Darkness and likely a flip-flopping Rumple (assuming he's going to want to try to get back into Belle's good graces) in 4B. This setup would lend itself to a final flip, a la 2B, in which Regina got to become a hero by stopping the doomsday thing she created and put in motion, since Rumple's going to have to do something to be able to stay a regular character. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he gets to save the day by somehow stopping the Queens, and even though he was the one who brought them to town, he'll be considered a hero and everyone will trust him.

 

We have potential for a Sad Regina plot line -- in 2B she wanted Henry back; in 4B she wants Robin back. In 2B she was able to be manipulated by Cora because her victims didn't want to suddenly let her be their friend/family member. In 4B she wants her happy ending. Will that make her easily manipulated? Is that what the spoiler photos of her with the Queens mean, that she decides to team with them to get her happy ending?

 

We have some mysterious offscreen figure driving events -- in 2B it was the Home Office. Now we've got the Author. Hmm, I wonder if they'll deal with the Author the same way as they did the Home Office and realize at the last minute that it's not working at all, then make it be merely a front for some other villain that's manipulating things, which drives us into season 5 and a new villain.

 

There's even a chance that we could have a rehash of the Hook wants revenge against Rumple plot, though I'm hoping the inclusion of that in the roundup was based on his defiant boast to Rumple that he would hunt him down in hell. A man who thinks he's about to die might say that, but would he really risk everything he's built, including his relationship with Emma, to get revenge in spite of having learned how empty it is? Though at this point, Rumple should be enough of a threat to be given shoot on sight status, so would going after him count as revenge or self-preservation and securing the safety of the entire town?

 

They've also hinted about darkness in Snow's past that ties in to the villains, so we get to tear her down just the way they did in 2B, when she got a dark spot on her heart for killing the villain and was reduced from sassy badass to groveling wimp.

 

Actually, this has the ingredients to be worse than 2B because at least we already had Hook's backstory in 2A and they just gave Greg, Tamara and Cora one flashback episode each rather than trying to build their whole story the way they did Zelena and Ingrid. Colin's broken leg kept them from having to deal with Hook during the heart of the Cora arc. Just imagine how little screen time the main characters will get if we have to do a full, multiple-episode backstory for all those villains plus deal with all of them in the present. The morality may get even wonkier than in 2B if Regina and the villains are after the same thing for the same reason but it's good for Regina, who must be helped by all the good guys, and bad for the villains, who must be stopped.

 

If we're following patterns, do we want to start guessing which of the villains gets redeemed, which gets killed early, and which gets killed as an afterthought in the transition to the next plot?

[Geeni]

 

If we're following patterns, do we want to start guessing which of the villains gets redeemed, which gets killed early, and which gets killed as an afterthought in the transition to the next plot?

 

Maleficent; Ursula; Cruella, respectively.

 

 

Robert and Emilie were filming something Friday - Saturday that required a stunt double for Robert.

 

Let's hope it's a scene where Belle punches Rumple as she hands him divorce papers.

[YaddaYadda]

Let's hope it's a scene where Belle punches Rumple as she hands him divorce papers.

 

It's probably a scene where Belle apologizes for growing a spine and goes back to telling him he has a true heart.

 

But hope springs eternal!

[daxx]

I so want a scene with Belle telling Killian she was wrong about his black heart and she should have heard him out when he told her about Milah.

[AnotherCastle]

 

I so want a scene with Belle telling Killian she was wrong about his black heart and she should have heard him out when he told her about Milah.

And I think Hook should (sincerely, not in for of a question and not because that's what Emma wants him to do ala 3.15) apologize to Belle for all the times he nearly killed her and the time he erased her personality and thank her for saving his life first before she has to say anything to him.

[FabulousTater]

And I think Hook should (sincerely, not in for of a question and not because that's what Emma wants him to do ala 3.15) apologize to Belle for all the times he nearly killed her and the time he erased her personality and thank her for saving his life first before she has to say anything to him.

Meh, she's The Dark One's moll. She cleans the blood of Rumple's victims off of his apron for him and declares him as having a good heart. It's not like she's completely ignorant of his evil. She actually loves him for it! So, meh, on her getting further apologies.

 

Rumple kills Milah and is beating Hook to death (because Hook wants revenge against Rumple for murdering Milah) and Belle is all, "Rumpy-poo, sure you killed your wife, Milah, but who cares?! I know you have a good heart not like the jerk that you are beating to death who is unreasonably upset at you for killing his love even though you enjoyed killing her and taunt him with her death all the time. My Rumpy-poo is the best! I spit on the pirate scum who is angry at you for a killing no one cares about!"

 

I'm not saying Belle deserved to get shot by Hook or locked up by Regina, but Rumple kills people left and right and she still stands by him. I mean, it's not like she should be getting gift baskets. Maybe a condolence card "Sorry you're an idiot. My condolences on your nearly fatal stupidity"

Edited January 19, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Souris]

Merrin Dungey tweeted about heading back to Vancouver from LA for shooting. Jeez, are the Trio of Evil ever NOT filming? Soooooooo glad the show is focusing on the main characters and the guest stars aren't sucking up the screen time like the past few arcs. (Careful, you may cut your fingers on my sarcasm.)

 

Can't remember if it's been posted here, but they're also supposed to be filming in Steveston on Tuesday, so I expect there will be BTS spoiler pics. I believe they're on 4x16.

[FabulousTater]

So has this been discussed?(I scrolled back a few pages but didn't notice any talk about it):

 

In that promo where Snowing is talking to Emma, on the road just behind Emma, in the background are both Ursula and Cruella just standing next to Cruella's car waiting for Snowing & Emma to finish their talk. I wonder if Ursula and Cruella come into town to try and con everyone into thinking that they are here only to "help" and expose Rumple's plan of revenge (or whatever) and are pretending they are on the "good" side 'cause hey, if The Evil Queen can be "good" why can't any old villain be good, and it's all just part of a big trap/con.

 

Sort of like how Zelena pretended to be a midwife to get in with Snow. Except Ursula and Cruella are just playing up the "Yes we were villains, but we've changed, just like Regina has!" angle (which, Ha! "Regina changed her ways"! I don't care what the writer's say that's still a 1000% flaming horse shit) and of course everyone falls for it because the writers love making everyone that's not Rumple or Regina come off as vegetables for brains stupid.

Edited January 19, 2015 by FabulousTater