Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[RadioGirl27]

Ignoring Zelena's curse bugs. I would've laughed off the contrivance if Emma had been like, can't you curse Hook's lips again or something? Then we would've gotten Rumple's epic look of disgust.

But that happened last season, so they probably have forgotten, like they did with the fact that Cinderella's baby was a girl and she should be two.

 

Anyway, it seems they have decided to use the shards in the eyes to make "comedy". This is from Scott Nimerfro twitter (the same guy who wrote episode 5):

 

@ScottNimerfro: OUAT Staff watched 4X10 over lunch today and laughed (and cried a little). Our actors are fantastic. You're gonna love it.

Another missed opportunity :-(

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Ugh. I don't know why I read that interview.

 

I'm sticking with my vow not to read any more Lana interviews.

 

Ah, yes, such comedy to see everybody in town attacking one another! Hardy har har.

[YaddaYadda]

I think i'm going to skip right over hot and steamy. No one will convince me that this relationship isn't all about sex.

And Rumple has the spell of convenience right there, waiting to use it? So doesn't that mean he's actually double-cro ssing DQ? Because i'm assuming that the last thin she wants is for Emma to lose her magic because it makes her family not so special anymore. I'm thinking we'll be having one pissed off DQ.

[kili]

She's made amends with Emma and Snow?

 

I must have fallen asleep during that part. All I saw Regina do was insult Emma who had done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

Ignoring Zelena's curse bugs. I would've laughed off the contrivance if Emma had been like, can't you curse Hook's lips again or something?

 

Zelena's curse wasn't permanent. After she was defeated, her curses no longer had any effect. Emma just didn't have her magic back until she...er...was lonely...wanted her family...pep talk...REASONS! Rumple is claiming to permanently get rid of the magic, so that's a slight difference. Presumably, he is arguing that should  he lose his power, she won't get her magic back.

 

Buit, yes, it's mostly ignoring the Zelena curse which is stupid because they are actively recycling the plot cursing bits of Hook and making him hide the truth just so Emma can get mad at him again.

 

I would love nothing more than for Hook and Emma to be playing a ruse, which means they actually won't and it'll just be contrived angst. Even though the writers will set up a perfect parallel between Anna-lying-to-Elsa and Hook-lying-to-Emma, they'll somehow finish this episode by having Elsa understand that Anna would never try to hurt her as they come up with a plan to stop the Snow Queen, but Emma will probably do the opposite - freak out and break up with Hook.

 

They already set a precedence for just that. In the Hook/Anna episode, Hook who knows Rumple is easily tricked and enslaved by Rumple. Anna, who does not know Rumple, easily tricks him and enslaves him.  Hook helps Rumple to use the Hat while Anna steals the hat from Rumple preventing him from using it. Hook is inherintly evil and that is why Rumple can control him, but Anna is inherintly good so she escapes. They seem to be setting Hook up to be the anti-Anna.

 

Meanwhile, all the sisterly energy is going to the Regina/Emma relationship with a twist. Both are magical. We start out with Emma doing the "Do You want to Build a Snowman" scene with Regina as Elsa. Then, we have the Regina as Elsa episode where Regina/Elsa lash out at Anna/Emma (Elsa sent the Marshmalllow to chase off her sister and accidently froze her heart). So, yes, sadly, I expect Hook to do everything the opposite of Anna (even though he's been Anna to Emma's Elsa for two seasons) while Regina is the true hero. Snow gets to play Gerda.

[KAOS Agent]

My guess is that the magic removing spell doesn't do what he says it does. It could be some reverse kiss curse in that Emma will now harm Hook if she does a specific something. That works to Rumpel's advantage in that he doesn't directly harm Hook, Emma will go completely nuts for hurting him and Rumpel gets whatever he needs for the hat to work.

[RadioGirl27]

They already set a precedence for just that. In the Hook/Anna episode, Hook who knows Rumple is easily tricked and enslaved by Rumple. Anna, who does not know Rumple, easily tricks him and enslaves him.  Hook helps Rumple to use the Hat while Anna steals the hat from Rumple preventing him from using it. Hook is inherintly evil and that is why Rumple can control him, but Anna is inherintly good so she escapes. They seem to be setting Hook up to be the anti-Anna.

 

Meanwhile, all the sisterly energy is going to the Regina/Emma relationship with a twist. Both are magical. We start out with Emma doing the "Do You want to Build a Snowman" scene with Regina as Elsa. Then, we have the Regina as Elsa episode where Regina/Elsa lash out at Anna/Emma (Elsa sent the Marshmalllow to chase off her sister and accidently froze her heart). So, yes, sadly, I expect Hook to do everything the opposite of Anna (even though he's been Anna to Emma's Elsa for two seasons) while Regina is the true hero. Snow gets to play Gerda.

 This is me after reading this.

 

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Mitch]

Zelena's curse wasn't permanent.

 

They never explained if Zelena's curse was real or not. It looked to me that Emma just didn't want to deal with her magic and thought that was an easy way out, but she still had it..she just "beleived," she didn't. 

[YaddaYadda]

I am completely at the other end of the spectrum on the whole Hook issue. For one thing, it seems like Hook is risking his life for Emma, so her breaking up with him over his secret makes no sense at all especially after they'be been shown to be going through similar things. Hook had his hand removed because he was wotried he might end up hurting someone he cares about. Rumple preyed on his insecurities much like DQ did with Emma.

I still say that if there's a break up, it will be just for show. How long can Rumple keep his secrets once Anna has been found? I still think the ultimate goal in all of this is to get the hat because it is the quickest way to take care of DQ and Hook has access.

If I'm wrong, i'll eat my pretty Hermione hat that I just finished.

[kili]

For one thing, it seems like Hook is risking his life for Emma, so her breaking up with him over his secret makes no sense at all especially after they'be been shown to be going through similar things.

 

He risked his life to save Henry and the entire family broke up with him. Breaking a trust is a big thing to them. If they don't trust you and you are their enemy that tries repeatedly to kill them, they can forgive you without even being asked.

 

I'm really worried about that happy, town celebration in 4.10. If Emma knows that something has happened to Hook while he was risking his life to save her, then wouldn't she have a note of sadness in her happy hugging? If he is mysteriously missing, wouldn't somebody be looking around for him during their great victory? He's been fairly active in the battle to defeat the "Snow Queen".  Why isn't he there? Charming and he are practically joined at the hip this season when trying to figure out this latest mystery. Emma is forever sending him on errands. So, for him not to be there and everybody to be okay with that, he must be on the outs with them.

 

At the same time, I see A&E wanting to prove what a hero St. Regina is. Even though they are 100% on Team Regina in the Marian/Regina/Hood triangle, I can see they would really want a moment where she is a hero to offset what some might find unpalatable about the affair while Marian lies dying. What better thing than to have her save Emma? They need angst in the Hook/Emma relationship anyway because they can't have two happy couples in the same episode. They have to spread that out a bit.

 

I like slow burn relationship, but if you keep having the characters make the same mistakes in order to contrive the slowness, it eventually becomes not worth it anymore.

 

A&E have taught me to be cynical. Regina may seem distracted, but she can pop up anytime to save the day.

Edited November 14, 2014 by kili

[Serena]

Are we sure the happy town reunion is in 410? They went back and shot stuff for 408 when ABC told them to make it two hours. It would make sense if they reunite in 408, right? Because the episode is "Break the Mirror", so they'll probably unite and then the shard thing will happen and they'll be at odds again. 

Also, there's the possibility that Hook wasn't at the family reunion because he and Emma have a separate reunion either earlier or later. Maybe they want to give them a romantic moment and doing it while the Charmings are there wouldn't work? If he somehow convinces Emma not to give up her magic and go back to her family, she could do that while he goes enact whatever plan they decide on? I'm just throwing out best case scenarios here.

[Souris]

I often forget which spoiler goes with which ep. This is a good roundup, though I notice it doesn't reference the seeming Emma/Henry/Hook scene that JMo tweeted a pic of.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Souris

[kili]

Are we sure the happy town reunion is in 410? They went back and shot stuff for 408 when ABC told them to make it two hours. It would make sense if they reunite in 408, right?

 

I would argue that a rumble on Main Street that culminated in the defeat of the Snow Queen's mirror shard scheme would be a fairly critical scene. It doesn't seem like the kind of scene they would have occur off-screen in the original 4x08 and decide to film when they got the extra hour.  I think the extra scenes added for 4x08 would have been less plot-related scenes - scenes that could be jettisoned and not effect the core plot. I think the rumble on Main Street is in 4.10. I think 4x08 is just going to keep more of those St. Regina moments that they have had to cut for time all season.

[RadioGirl27]

I often forget which spoiler goes with which ep. This is a good roundup, though I notice it doesn't reference the seeming Emma/Henry/Hook scene that JMo tweeted a pic of.

 

They have a lot of things out of place, so I don't know how reliable is this roundup. And I don't think that the pic of Marian in modern clothes means she is going to change.

 

I would argue that a rumble on Main Street that culminated in the defeat of the Snow Queen's mirror shard scheme would be a fairly critical scene. It doesn't seem like the kind of scene they would have occur off-screen in the original 4x08 and decide to film when they got the extra hour.  I think the extra scenes added for 4x08 would have been less plot-related scenes - scenes that could be jettisoned and not effect the core plot. I think the rumble on Main Street is in 4.10. I think 4x08 is just going to keep more of those St. Regina moments that they have had to cut for time all season.

The extra hour was added here to include the "hot and steamy" crypt sex between Regina and Robin.

 

kili, you are really depressing me today. If Emma and Charming break up with Hook because of the hand stupidity while they keep cuddling Regina, I just hope he runs away with Marian and Roland and leaves behind this mess.

 

Lots of very spoilery pics of Elsa and Anna reunion here.

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Lots of pics of the Elsa/Anna & Kristoff reunion.

[YaddaYadda]

Both Emma and Elsa are stI'll wearing the yellow ribbons. Which episode is this? 10?

And Kili, totally get where you're coming from, but I'll be the positivity fairy for a change ;)

[Souris]

Both Emma and Elsa are stI'll wearing the yellow ribbons. Which episode is this? 10?

 

I suspect this is going on at the same time as the brawl or right before, since Anna and Kristoff are there at the post-brawl reunion.

[RadioGirl27]

 

I suspect this is going on at the same time as the brawl or right before, since Anna and Kristoff are there at the post-brawl reunion.

I think the beach reunion would be at the end of episode 9 or the beginning of 10, then in 10 we have the brawl (that it's going to be "oh so funny" per the screenwriter), Emma and Elsa facing the Snow Queen (and getting rid of the ribbons) and the happy reunion of Emma and her family, with Hook nowhere to be seen (the positive part of me wants to think he is in a secret mission, but the realist in me thinks he is dead, locked up somewhere or that Emma has broken up with him and he is getting drunk in the Rabbit Hole). Maybe I'm wrong but I think Kristoff is not there either during the reunion (I remember worrying about both him and Hook when I saw the BTS pics).

 

Some spoilers from EW (it's nothing new, we know both Emma and Elsa are going to wear them)

 

Any scoop on the two-hour episode of Once Upon a Time? — Farah

Remember the Snow Queen’s yellow ribbons? You should definitely be worried about them because they’ll come back into play in a very major way. (Hint: I may have spotted certain people wearing them while I was on set.)

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

Lots of very spoilery pics of Elsa and Anna reunion here.

 

 

So they've been in a giant chest? In one picture Kristoff is in it like he had just been lying in there with Anna this whole time. How does that even work? Magical contrivance, here we come. It's a wooden stasis chamber!

Edited November 14, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

then in 10 we have the brawl (that it's going to be "oh so funny" per the screenwriter), Emma and Elsa facing the Snow Queen (and getting rid of the ribbons) and the happy reunion of Emma and her family, with Hook nowhere to be seen (the positive part of me wants to think he is in a secret mission, but the realist in me thinks he is dead, locked up somewhere or that Emma has broken up with him and he is getting drunk in the Rabbit Hole).

But would Emma be all happy if her boyfriend was dead or if she'd broken up with him because he was working with Rumple? Even if she's pissed-off at him, there was enough trust and vulnerability there for her to be hurt about things falling apart. So maybe it all comes crashing down after that point, and that's when she finds out about him and Rumple and the hat -- the big emotional sucker punch with the good stuff happening, followed immediately by bad news. That part of the plot may propel into the next half-season.

[RadioGirl27]

But would Emma be all happy if her boyfriend was dead or if she'd broken up with him because he was working with Rumple? Even if she's pissed-off at him, there was enough trust and vulnerability there for her to be hurt about things falling apart. So maybe it all comes crashing down after that point, and that's when she finds out about him and Rumple and the hat -- the big emotional sucker punch with the good stuff happening, followed immediately by bad news. That part of the plot may propel into the next half-season.

I don't expect any kind of consistency, especially a sentimental one, in the writing of this show. So, if things start to go downhill for them in episode 8, by episode 10 it's perfectly plausible for her to be that happy. Hell, Hook was all gloomy at the end of episode 4 because of the hand and super happy at the beginning of episode 5.

I don't know, today I'm very nitpicky.

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[legaleagle53]

They never explained if Zelena's curse was real or not. It looked to me that Emma just didn't want to deal with her magic and thought that was an easy way out, but she still had it..she just "believed," she didn't. 

 

It was real.  The white magic was clearly shown leaving her body after she was forced to lock lips with Hook in order to save his life.

[YaddaYadda]

He risked his life to save Henry and the entire family broke up with him. Breaking a trust is a big thing to them. If they don't trust you and you are their enemy that tries repeatedly to kill them, they can forgive you without even being asked.

 

They're not in the same place anymore though.  If they don't see everything he's done for them, then maybe he's the one who should break up with them.

[RadioGirl27]

More spoilers from EW. I just don't care anymore.

 

“They’re thinking maybe it’s the best thing for her, to get rid of all of this burden that she seems to have that she carries the world on her shoulder,” Josh Dallas tells EW. “Maybe she can just be normal and she doesn’t have to be the savior.” But being normal could come at a steep price. What Emma (Jennifer Morrison) may not realize is that Rumplestiltskin (Robert Carlye) is far from redeemed after doing everything in his power to get his hands on the Sorcerer’s Hat.

So the Charmings want that Emma gets rid of her powers so she can be normal, but Hook wants her to keep them because they are a part of her (or at least that's what he thought last year). Great, another source of contrived angst.

 

Whatever happens between Emma and Rumple, the pair will share a deeper moment of understanding during a scene added on once the episode was expanded into two hours. “Emma sees herself as a villain because she feels like she’s made so many mistakes in her life and she’s always trying to redeem the mistakes that she’s made,” Morrison says. “Gold can only see her as a hero. The fact that he sees her as a hero in the way that he does is really impacting to her to hear him say that. Those words are really powerful to her.”

A powerful scene that is an afterthought because it was added when they got the second hour. And Emma sees her as a villian?

I can't with this show.

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[maryle]

I decided to wait after the 2 hour episode before judging the pace of CS but if my fear that the showrunner separe them ( because angst) without any kind of pay off, after all the buzz.

I want a refund!

 Mostly the show is a copy of Frozen without  real creativity maybe the big episode will prove me wrong.

 

Well the original creativity has been for OQ so far but with such a  twist on a love story I'd rather  they  continue the slow burn road with CS.

[stealinghome]

He risked his life to save Henry and the entire family broke up with him.

Not really, though. They were over it literally within an hour--and given that it was partly Hook's actions that endangered Henry in the first place, they did have a right to be peeved.

[Emma]

Eww. Do not want. That Snowing bit sounds awful. I don't care if they only consider Emma losing her magic being a plus for 30 seconds.

I always enjoy Emma-Gold scenes so there's that to look forward to.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not 100% convinced this two hour episode is going to be all that cohesive, but I'm willing to wait and see how it all unfolds. Emma seeing herself as a villain is plain BS, but in-keepings with A&E's reasonings, though. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

So the Charmings want that Emma gets rid of her powers so she can be normal, but Hook wants her to keep them because they are a part of her (or at least that's what he thought last year). Great, another source of contrived angst.

This makes zero sense. They're seriously putting themselves in jeopardy because they'll no longer have the Savior to save them every time a low-cut-wearing witch comes to town.

 

 

“Emma sees herself as a villain because she feels like she’s made so many mistakes in her life and she’s always trying to redeem the mistakes that she’s made,” Morrison says.

JMo you're awesome, but where the heck is this coming from? Since when has Emma done anything wrong after she got out of prison? She really hasn't made that many mistakes to consider herself even remotely close to a "villain". Not that there's a morality meter, but I don't feel she's done enough for her to feel this way. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree when it comes to guilt complexes, it seems to be.

 

There is one blurred area in the show I just can't deal with - the classification of "heroes" and "villains". If they want to be that black and white about, they need to lay it out better. I sound like a crazy person trying to throw sense into this mess...

Edited November 14, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

So the Charmings want that Emma gets rid of her powers so she can be normal, but Hook wants her to keep them because they are a part of her (or at least that's what he thought last year). Great, another source of contrived angst.

 

I took the "they" in Josh's quote to refer to Emma and Gold thinking that, not the Charmings. If it does refer to the Charmings, it was badly written, because Emma and Gold were the only people introduced in the story previously.

 

And, yes, it's complete and utter BS to think that Emma would see herself as a villain. Jesus wept, this show and its morality!

[YaddaYadda]

Emma seeing herself as a villain is plain BS, but in-keepings with A&E's reasonings, though.

 

She's obviously not a villain and it's a very strong word to describe the things that she has done in her life, including stealing to feed herself, but it's all about her perception of herself at this point and what she's done that she isn't proud of.  She still drives a car that was technically stolen, so...

 

I'm willing to roll with it.  If they're dredging up her past, her insecurities and everything else, then might as well get everything out in the open.

Edited November 14, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

I took the "they" in Josh's quote to refer to Emma and Gold thinking that, not the Charmings. If it does refer to the Charmings, it was badly written, because Emma and Gold were the only people introduced in the story previously.

I don't know, maybe I just misunderstood the quote.

The more I now about this half season, the more clear I see that everything is an afterthought and that A&E didn't have a plan and are making it up on the fly.

Edited November 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Emma]

Not sure where JMo gets the villain bit either. Unless it's all part of her magic out of control, her emotions out of whack, etc. Possibly that snow shard she was hit with? Making her doubt everything.

Hurting Henry would certainly do a number on her mindset.

[KAOS Agent]

Emma sees herself as a villain? Seriously? That's the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. She's with people who've literally murdered entire villages. Her past mistakes include car theft and shoplifting which are barely a blip on the villain continuum. Feeling bad about past mistakes is one thing. Categorizing herself as a villain is quite another. I'm not at all impressed with where they are taking this story.

[Jean]

Well I think life ruining activities count towards the villain column and like it or not A&E sees her as a life ruiner. Mass murder however nets a victim status.

 

We'll see how the conversation goes with Rumple. I finally get some real scenes betweem them so I'm not complaining just yet. Also can we get a meaty scene with Emma and Elsa? She's horning in on the Frozen beach reunion so let's make their friendship more substantial so it's not as awkward. Just because you tell the actresses to talk about it in interviews does not make it true onscreen.

 

ETA:  Dare I hope the Rumple sees Emma as a hero bit is about her giving up her magic for her kid? Something that Rumple wasn't able to do himself. Of course like with everything else with Rumple, I like the extra layer that he's also playing her like a fiddle to get her to where he wants her.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jean

[Souris]

It's just all a part of the entire Snow White lineage being presented as awful, horrible, evil villains, while Regina and Cora are the biggest victims ever and really the heroes of the piece.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I took the "they" in Josh's quote to refer to Emma and Gold thinking that, not the Charmings. If it does refer to the Charmings, it was badly written, because Emma and Gold were the only people introduced in the story previously.

The quote was taken out of context, so it could go either way. I still think he's talking about the Charmings, though.

 

The more I now about this half season, the more clear I see that everything is an afterthought and that A&E didn't have a plan and are making it up on the fly.

A&E have proudly admitted to not having a plan. The whole just going from one arc to the next with no longterm planning is not good at all. It's a breeding ground for inconsistency and detachment. 

 

 

Also, I haven't seen this posted yet: Sneak Peek. Emma asks Gold for some help.

Wow. So this spell was just... lying there all this time. I'm sorry, but I just can't with these convenient contrivances. So why is it so difficult to remove dark magic from a person, but it's so easy to remove light magic? If we've got metal cuffs, concealing gloves, urns, kiss curses, light magic removal spells and handcuff candles, why are magic people such a threat?

 

 

No kidding. Any time you have to go back and add a scene you never intended on showing originally is not a good sign. I feel like we're going to have to sit through a good 40 minutes of filler on Sunday.

 

This is going to be one slow night. It's a 40 minute episode stretched over two hours. How many morning after scenes are we getting?

Edited November 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

“They’re thinking maybe it’s the best thing for her, to get rid of all of this burden that she seems to have that she carries the world on her shoulder,” Josh Dallas tells EW. “Maybe she can just be normal and she doesn’t have to be the savior.”

 

This doesn't make any sense. Why would Emma giving up her magic mean that she doesn't have to be the savior anymore? She was perfectly fine playing the savior role in Season 1 before she knew she had any magic. Hook, David, and Snow all don't have magic but they still fight villains on a daily basis, so why would Emma stop helping the town if she's "normal?"

 

I'm not 100% convinced this two hour episode is going to be all that cohesive

 

No kidding. Any time you have to go back and add a scene you never intended on showing originally is not a good sign. I feel like we're going to have to sit through a good 40 minutes of filler on Sunday.

[Jean]

 

I still think he's talking about the Charmings, though.

I do too. I think the setup is pretty interesting but the execution will undoubtedly suck. What I think they're trying to do is draw a parallel with Ingrid/Elsa/Emma. Ingrid got the "urn her to stop her magic" treatment by her family. Elsa via Anna wants Elsa to keep her magic and all that specialness or whatever as Lail said in that same article. Emma gets the middle of the spectrum, with the Charmings being ok with getting rid of her powers but it's because they think it's best for her.

 

It would be a cool story if they really dived into the complicated feelings and relationships at play here but they're not going to do that. They can't do that.

[YaddaYadda]

Honestly, when it comes to Emma, I think it's just one of those things where her perception of herself is completely off.  I think it's self-esteem, self-loathing issues coming to the forefront for her.  And it all started with that godforsaken Lily flashback.

[kili]

However, killing her own sister wasn’t quite the catalyst for the Snow Queen’s transformation into a villain after being hidden away from society at such a young age. “She was already on the road to crazy,” Mitchell says. “Without people to really guide her towards choices and having to hide and not being able to be the person she is, she just never came into her own.”

 

This show is always so weird. They constantly give us examples of a good person who has faced much worse situations than the villain, but then they expect us to understand/sympathize/relate with the villain.

 

Take the Snow Queen. Did Ingrid have a rough childhood? It seems she did though largely of her own making. She had two fantastic sisters, one of who appeared to be a saint, who gave her nothing but unconditional love for decades. Her parents seemed to be okay with her too - they seemed open to her going to a ball. Ingrid decides her magic needs controlling and makes a deal with the Dark One. For whatever reason, she does not wear the gloves she trades for and ends up accidently killing one sister and urned by the other. Does this killing make her snap? No, it apparently does not. It is the years of not having anyone to guide her and having to hide and  not be the person she is.  As a result, she becomes a villain.

 

Meanwhile, the show also gives us Elsa. Elsa nearly kills her beloved sister as a child because her sister is horsing around  (Elsa was attempting to build a snow hill for Anna to land on - Anna was jumping too quickly from hill to non-existent hill). From that time on, she is locked in a room by herself and taught to conceal her magic. That her magic is bad. That she is out of control. That she should not feel.  Her sister also almost dies due to her magic, but saves herself with an act of love just as she is dying. As a result, she becomes a hero.

 

Shouldn't locked-in-a-room-and-made-to-feel-horrible-about-herself Elsa be the crazy one and loved-unconditionally-by-her-sisters Ingrid be the sane one? The same thing has already happened with Emma who had a much rougher life than Zelena or Regina.  Or Snow having a much rougher life than Cora.  And on and on.

 

Of course, we now know that Emma and Snow are the real villains, so I guess I'm the one who does not understand.

[KingOfHearts]

 

As a result, she becomes a villain.

There is no way that the Snow Queen could have become who she is now from what we saw in 4x07. She had to have been un-urned at some point before Elsa found her. Even if she had control over her powers, where did she learn to do a teleportation spell? How did she know what the hat did? Was she secretly taking lessons with Rumple from the short time between being un-urned and Anna's return?

[sharky]

I can totally see Emma believing she is a villain. In a 24-hour period, she has almost killed three people she loves. And in the sneak peek, she specifically tells Gold she is there because she hurt Henry. Even when it's an accident, there is something about accidentally hurting your child that still rattles you. And shocking Henry is definitely more than scratching him. I can see that, combined with the police station and sleeping in her car most likely, as severely clouding her judgment. Don't compare Emma the villain to Gold or Regina. Compare Emma the villain to Emma the savior, and it makes sense as to why she -- rationally or irrationally -- goes to Gold for help.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I can totally see Emma believing she is a villain. In a 24-hour period, she has almost killed three people she loves.

 

I think "villain" was just a poor choice of words, because of the show's... history. She could have said monster or just a dangerous person. I don't believe JMo was comparing Emma to Regina or Rumple by any stretch of the imagination.

[Leia1979]

Just a random thought I had after watching the sneak peek. While dealing with two snow/ice magic women this half-season, Emma's displayed heat magic on a couple occasions (boiling the bottle and the burning of her hand on the book in Gold's shop, which makes me wonder if she accidentally burned Henry with her magic). It seems to me that Emma might have the ability to melt Marian and maybe even the ice wall around town. 

 

But as much as I like this theory, that would deprive St. Woegina of saving everyone with her super-awesome, totally not evil magic.

[KingOfHearts]

Just a random thought I had after watching the sneak peek. While dealing with two snow/ice magic women this half-season, Emma's displayed heat magic on a couple occasions (boiling the bottle and the burning of her hand on the book in Gold's shop, which makes me wonder if she accidentally burned Henry with her magic). It seems to me that Emma might have the ability to melt Marian and maybe even the ice wall around town.

But as much as I like this theory, that would deprive St. Woegina of saving everyone with her super-awesome, totally not evil magic.

Makes sense since Emma's magic is powered by love. That could constitute as an ATL. Besides that, who knows? No one truly loves Marian at this point. Edited November 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

ET interview with Elizabeth Mitchell (I can't see this posted anywhere, anyway).

[Shanna Marie]

Honestly, when it comes to Emma, I think it's just one of those things where her perception of herself is completely off.  I think it's self-esteem, self-loathing issues coming to the forefront for her.

Yeah, as long as the show isn't telling us Emma's a villain and it's just Emma feeling that way about herself, I can buy it. It's a sign of a good person if someone feels bad about bad things she's done or about hurting other people, even if she's not really at fault and wasn't doing it deliberately. Being aware of one's faults is how you can change and become a better person (as long as you don't spiral too far down into guilt). Meanwhile, it's a sign of a bad person to feel like a good person and have no regrets about things you've done that hurt others. Not to name names, or anything ...

 

Hell, Hook was all gloomy at the end of episode 4 because of the hand and super happy at the beginning of episode 5.

I didn't see him as super happy, just not brooding. Hook's baseline is a sort of mid-level melancholy. Even when he smiles, his eyes are still usually sad. That's how you can tell the difference between a behind-the-scenes picture of Colin in costume and a picture of Hook in character. Colin's smiles reach his eyes, and Hook's seldom do. But I also don't think Hook's current situation calls for a lot of sad brooding, unlike the Zelena threat. With the kiss curse, he really felt like he was in a no-win situation. Either he did something that he felt would hurt Emma or Henry would get hurt, and he didn't see a good way out. In this situation, the threat is more vague. He just knows that at some undefined point in the future he's going to have to choose between doing some as yet undefined task for Rumple or having Rumple reveal his role in what happened to the Apprentice to Emma, and Hook has no leverage because if he tries to say anything to Belle, Emma could get hurt. That's all pretty vague, since he doesn't know what he'll be asked to do or when, and he has time to try to figure out a way out of it. The worst-case scenario is that Emma ends up hating him, as opposed to her being hurt, as in the Zelena threat. So he's probably going to put on a brave face and carry on until he knows exactly what he's getting into, and getting deeper into it may even be a way to better learn what Rumple's up to.

 

But while they are wildly inconsistent with anything character-related, and no emotional arc seems allowed to span more than a single episode, I do still think that Emma's not so likely to be really happy if she knows that Hook has died or has betrayed her. That's likely to come next to dampen the joy. Or maybe they'll surprise us all and Hook will actually tell her once he realizes he can't go through with what Rumple wants. The two of them could then come up with a plan for him to play along so he can see what's going on, and that may be what gets him "killed."

[Writing Wrongs]

ET interview with Elizabeth Mitchell (I can't see this posted anywhere, anyway).

I love that all the commenters managed to take away from the interview was that Mitchell was talking about "Outlaw Queen". God, I hate Regina and Robin with a fiery passion.

[RadioGirl27]

I love that all the commenters managed to take away from the interview was that Mitchell was talking about "Outlaw Queen". God, I hate Regina and Robin with a fiery passion.

At least, they got it right. In tumblr some fans think she is talking about Hook and Emma.

[HeimrArnadalr]

From the interview:

 

But at the same time I also see that there's nothing more fun than a healthy antagonist, somebody that we kind of love to hate because the antagonists bring out the best in our beloved protagonists. That's one of the things that I love about these characters is that it really is kind of okay to hate them.

 

 

I like how she isn't under any delusions that she's playing a misunderstood hero.