Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

So, if she and Ingrid disappeared in childhood, when did they get back? Did Ingrid kidnap her own sister and they grew up somewhere like Babes in the Wood? They return, and maybe the Gerda/Kai story plays out with Elsa's parents. After that Helga disappears again, for good this time, and Ingrid gets Urned. 

 

And then, there's this tweet. Maybe the Price of Magic was Helga's life. 

[maryle]

The OQ disaster has pass in funny zone for me instead of fast forward their scene I am going  to laugh! At this dose of soapy it is better than prozac.

But I'm beginning to worry that after misleading quote like Emma will fight for Hook OQ will have the real developpment and nothing significant will happen for CS.

The OQ disaster has pass in funny zone for me instead of fast forward their scene I am going  to laugh! At this dose of soapy it is better than prozac.

But I'm beginning to worry that after misleading quote like Emma will fight for Hook OQ will have the real developpment and nothing significant will happen for CS.

[Bluerang1]

I'm guessing Helga dies as well since the synopsis said that Ingrid's powers had "deadly consequences" or they were "deadly powers" something like that. Either way someone dies.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Bluerang1

[YaddaYadda]

Helga dying might be what gets DQ urned.

[Shanna Marie]

You can tell the DQ is evil because of others have their cleavage covered up.

I was going to say that it looks like the one in the middle (Gerda?) has no magic at all and the one on the right (Helga?) has possibly moderate powers. Ingrid is the powerful one. The power is in the cleavage.

 

As for all the other info, I'm so glad I put that bottle of Riesling in the fridge. And I have some rum. And chocolate chip cookies. I'm fortifying myself.

[Serena]

Another script tease.

After that terrible "Robin saw Regina and thought it was Marian" spec, I'm thinking Henry asks Regina was happened when she didn't go into the tavern.

 

Regina has the storybook here. Maybe her not going into the tavern is there and that's how Robin puts 2 and 2 together?

Edited November 9, 2014 by Serena

[Rumsy4]

I think so. Well, at least I'm prepared for the OQ dumbness. lol. Hopefully, DQ's story and Emma's freak-out will more than make up for it! haha

[HoodlumSheep]

Those script teases...maybe Rumple casually mentions a magic sucking item to henry, then emma hears henry mention it at some point, causing Emma to go to Rumple in 4x08?

Will/Robin interaction? We'll see how it goes.

As for the sketch/pic looking more like emma than helga. Maybe the artist was taking creative liberties?

[snarkastic]

Elsa and Emma wearing the ribbons in 4.09

[KingOfHearts]

 

Elsa and Emma wearing the ribbons in 4.09

Just then you thought the Snow Queen's plan couldn't get any creepier.

[Jean]

DQ is too cheap to get real friendship bracelets? Is hair braiding next?

I bet the ribbons are actually what will protect Emma and Elsa from the mirror spell and/or protect them from getting hatted by Rumple. I think she totally lied to Rumple about the last thing Rumple needs for the hat to work. He's going after Emma cause of what the DQ told him? But why would he think DQ would want Emma to be hatted and de-magicked.

Or is it going to be something lame like an act of true love is going to get the hat souped up without sucking in the person?

[snarkastic]

DQ is too cheap to get real friendship bracelets? Is hair braiding next?

I bet the ribbons are actually what will protect Emma and Elsa from the mirror spell and/or protect them from getting hatted by Rumple. I think she totally lied to Rumple about the last thing Rumple needs for the hat to work. He's going after Emma cause of what the DQ told him? But why would he think DQ would want Emma to be hatted and de-magicked.

Or is it going to be something lame like an act of true love is going to get the hat souped up without sucking in the person?

 

Good call on the protection via bracelets.

 

And I'd assume the DQ told Rumple about needing to go after Hook, hence the glee. I can't see him taking pleasure with hurting anyone else. I assume whatever she said was a LIE, of course, but if she just said 'suck in a non-magic person to seal the magic' he might believe her. And then she can play the 'join me Emma, and I'll save your boyfriend from Rumple'.

[InsertWordHere]

I think Rumple would be gleeful about Regina too, but I agree it's most likely Hook, since it's obvious he's going to play more of a role where Emma's powers are concerned. I just hope this isn't another Neverland, where sidelined Regina comes out of left field with no regrets and thus we get a tie in with the seemingly stand alone Emma/Regina episode.

 

I'm just not sure where the Hook is Rumple's unwilling henchman reveal will be placed. Will it be part of the catalyst for Emma to lose her powers?

[Shanna Marie]

One possibility is that Ingrid is setting up Hook to play Helga in a scenario that will end up with Emma lashing out and hitting the person she loves so she'll feel like a monster and only Ingrid can love and accept her.

 

Or there will be the big reveal about Hook being Rumple's henchman, which makes Emma feel like she can't trust anyone.

 

At any rate, Hook's in danger because a loving boyfriend who totally accepts Emma and cheers for her, no matter what, is rather an impediment to Ingrid's "just us girls here in the snow globe" plan.

[Souris]

Elsa and Emma wearing the ribbons in 4.09

 

Emma must still have her magic, because DQ wouldn't let her be in the Magical Blonde Club otherwise.

[retrograde]

Canadian promo.

[Serena]

Yeah, I have no doubt she still has her magic in 409. I think Hook manages to get her to stop the de-magicking but either the Rumple deal comes out, or something else happens and they break up. 

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, I have no doubt she still has her magic in 409. I think Hook manages to get her to stop the de-magicking but either the Rumple deal comes out, or something else happens and they break up. 

 

I don't think DQ wants an "ordinary" in her circle.  The preview shows that Hook's head is actually bleeding, so who knows where that comes from.  Also, call me an optimist, but I doubt they break up and if they do, it will be for show.  It looks likely that both DQ and Rumple want Hook gone.  DQ because he actually gets Emma which you can't have and Rumple because of his quest for whatever and because he just hates the guy, period.

[Serena]

I definitely don't think a permanent break up, but I kind of feel they will be more distant in 409-410? Just because of the fact that Hook was nowhere to be seen at the reunion with Emma's family in the streets. We know he's involved in her plot in 408, and I feel like that'll cultiminate in them being apart - maybe Emma accepting the DQ's ribbon to save Hook?

[YaddaYadda]

maybe Emma accepting the DQ's ribbon to save Hook?

 

Again, there's some kind of a parallel between Emma and Hook in that they're doing someone else's bidding.  I thought last night was just filled with those.  Last night's episode was Emma's "Apprentice".  DQ might be looking for a family that accepts her, but I think that's just a small fraction of this "everything" villains want.  Rumple in the Frozenbacks (tm whomever, you know who you are!) said that a sisterly bond is worth its weight in magic. I think there's a whole of a lot more to what DQ wants especially since she wants Storybrooke for some reason as well.

 

Emma takes the ribbon as a deal to maybe keep Hook (her family) safe and Elsa takes hers as a deal to find out where her sister is.

Edited November 10, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

And I'd assume the DQ told Rumple about needing to go after Hook, hence the glee. I can't see him taking pleasure with hurting anyone else. I assume whatever she said was a LIE, of course, but if she just said 'suck in a non-magic person to seal the magic' he might believe her.

 

The hat could only be activated by somebody who had not given into their darkness (that's why Rump needed Anna) so there may be something other good and pure that needs to occur for the hat to really work. I wonder if that might be an act of True Love? Somebody has to sacrifice themselves for the hat to start working. There are lots of canonical True Love couples in Storybrooke, but I can see Rumple willing to give Hook a chance to prove his True Love if it meant he died. If it doesn't work, Hook is still dead and there are lots of back-ups around.

 

The smile Rumple gave was just to self-satisfied for it not to mean something bad for one of his irritants.

 

And then she can play the 'join me Emma, and I'll save your boyfriend from Rumple'.

 

Yes, the Snow Queen might be one of the few people who can out maneuver Rumple. She could have asked for the ribbons at any time, but waited until now. She clearly has a plan and she's going to use Rumple to further that plan. Rumple is okay with that if he thinks that moves his own plans forward - I'm hoping for another Zelena "Oops" moment from the Snow Queen when Rumple realizes that he didn't have as strong a grasp of the big picture as he thought he had.

[sharky]

Was it 4x09 that we also see everyone in the street with Hook noticeably absent? Or is that episode 10? Either way, I think the scenes they shot with Emma talking to the Snow Queen and without Hook may be another indication that something happened to him and the Snow Queen does have a hand in that. It would tie in very well with the ribbons.

Edited November 10, 2014 by sharky

[kili]

Was it 4x09 that we also see everyone in the street with Hook noticeably absent? Or is that episode 10?

 

I think that is 10.

[scenicbyway]

I haven't seen last night's episode and can't until Wednesday.  I did take a look at the promo, and I think since the theme seems to be sacrifice,  I think we'll see Hook sacrifice himself so that Emma can keep her magic.  I'm not sure what to expect from Emma in the episode.  We know she ends up wearing the "sister" ribbon in the next episode and we know that everyone is around in episodes 9 and 10, except for maybe Hook?  I almost think Hook must get "urned" (even though that particular urn has been destroyed.)

 

I'm not sure that the hat will play a role with Hook since it seems that only magical people can be sucked in.  I could see DQ revealing to Emma that Hook knows about the hat and wants to trap her in it and maybe that's a catalyst for separating them.  We know that some how DQ got Anna and Elsa to turn on each other momentarily, whether through a spell or lies.  I'm guessing we'll see the same treatment with Hook and Emma since Hook is Anna to Emma's Elsa.

 

Is it 4.11 yet?  The angst is hard to take.

[RadioGirl27]

I think that Hook is going to be locked up, the same way Anna was, so Emma thinks he has left her just like Neal did, or that she has killed him.

Edited November 10, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[FurryFury]

After this episode, I'm really hoping they'll stick Snow's TLK to Emma somewhere in the mid-season finale, because this relationship needs something positive, pronto. Hook/Emma can wait until the end of the season - really, they had so little development in their relationship this season it would probably feel unearned if it happened before that.

[YaddaYadda]

From some of the spoilers, it sounds like we have a reunion scene of Emma with her parents and Henry, but no sign of Hook. However, Colin has been seen filming other things and JMo's recent pic of him, her, and Jared would indicate that he's still around in 4.11. So I'm not sure what to make of that?

 

We can never be sure what they filmed, where they filmed and so on.  My headcanon is they both know what's going on with the other and are going to try and play both Rumple and DQ, each on their own end and they meet at night somewhere.  Hook could be after the hat to use against DQ.  It's when they're found out that the shit hits the fan.  That's my tale and I'm sticking to it.

[Joanh23]

I don't think it will just be Hook who saves Emma - her trigger was her relationship with her family and specially her parents so I think they need to be involved in saving her as well.

[scenicbyway]

From some of the spoilers, it sounds like we have a reunion scene of Emma with her parents and Henry, but no sign of Hook. However, Colin has been seen filming other things and JMo's recent pic of him, her, and Jared would indicate that he's still around in 4.11. So I'm not sure what to make of that?

 

The other question is my mind right now is what residual issue will the Snow Queen leave behind? Pan left the curse that sent everyone (sans Henry and Emma) back tot he Enchanted Forest. Zelena left behind the time portal. What will Snow Queen leave?

 

I think Hook is missing or frozen for 4.09-4.10, he's back in 4.11 because it's the mid season finale and everyone gets back together before they tear everyone apart again.

 

As for what the Snow Queen will leave behind....probably ice cream.

 

I am curious about Rumple.  He desperately wanted Snow and Charming together because they are true love.  He even didn't kill Hook all those years because he knew that Hook needed to live.  Whenever he needs something from Hook or Emma is threatens the other.   Why now try to kill both of them?  Does he not think they are true love?  Or does he not need them to be together anymore since Neal is gone and other than being bad, there's no role for him?

I don't think it will just be Hook who saves Emma - her trigger was her relationship with her family and specially her parents so I think they need to be involved in saving her as well.

But again?  I feel like we've been through this several times before.  Snow going through the portal with Emma to the EF.  Emma choosing Storybrooke as her home last season.

 

Why can't it just be about Hook and Emma this time?  She'll always feel some form of rejection from how she grew up, but does every arc have to revisit that?

[Souris]

I'm putting this here because it contains a spoiler picture. Awesome theory about Killian's parentage. I love it beyond measure. Because it's so awesome, it won't happen.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm putting this here because it contains a spoiler picture. Awesome theory about Killian's parentage. I love it beyond measure. Because it's so awesome, it won't happen.

 

Aww, I posted something similar in the Hook thread a few days ago.  One thing I'm actually looking forward to is Hook's backstory in 4B and finding out who he traded the Roger to. 

 

Also, because I forgot earlier.  Some of the preview scenes are at the honeymoon house.

[stealinghome]

She'll always feel some form of rejection from how she grew up, but does every arc have to revisit that?

But this arc has been set up explicitly to be about her parental issues, much moreso than 3B was, tbh. To me, with the story they've established so far, it would be a massive cop-out to not have the finale involve Snowing+Emma really, finally hashing through their issues.

 

Also, imo, Emma's journey on this show is about her family. That's always going to be her core story, for better or worse.

[angelwoody]

I'm putting this here because it contains a spoiler picture. Awesome theory about Killian's parentage. I love it beyond measure. Because it's so awesome, it won't happen.

Can you describe it under spoiler bars, please?  I can't click on the link at work (well I can click it, it's just blocked).

[Jean]

I don't know if I buy that this is about Emma and parents' issues more than her own issues like in 3B. That was presented as an Emma thing too, not an Emma/parents thing. Yeah I know they had the Snow stuff last episode, but a split second after Snow messed up, she realized it. I think it was Georgina who said that Elsa tries to help Emma through it and she does that by saying that she has to love herself right? Which is kind of funny because I don't think Elsa has absorbed that lesson either. She's been using Anna as a crutch. Those 2 are a classic case of the blind leading the blind and add in DQ and it's a massive clusterfuck. That's also DQ's problem. She's looking for external validation but it's really herself that she hates and fears. I would be fine if those 3 somehow figured a way out together.

 

After last episode I think my earlier spec about the hat bringing magic to all of the land without magic is where they're going. So it won't be only Rumple that can cross Storybrooke and do magic but others can as well. Not to mention if there are magic users out there that have been dormant cause they've been stuck in land without magic, they'll be revved up to go now. This is so going to suck. No matter how many yellow cabs they plant, Vancouver doesn't look a thing like NYC. Or any other real world city they want to visit.

[FurryFury]

I don't really like this theory. Well, I definitely like the father, but it's a very, very old guess (circa s2), but an awesome one, so I really hope it happens. Mother, however... That would be too much for my liking. Plus, a direct reference for a story that, in my mind, doesn't quite fit the show (although if they've done Frankenstein, they could do this one too). And I really don't want Hook to have any sort of unexpectedly revealed powers. He's too old for that. If he had something like that, it should have manifested years ago.

Edited November 10, 2014 by FurryFury

[retrograde]

Again, there's some kind of a parallel between Emma and Hook in that they're doing someone else's bidding. 

There is also now a parallel in that each thinks there is something monstrous about themselves deep down. I don't think Emma did previously, but the DQ seems to have convinced her there is. And Rumple basically talked Hook out of coming clean to Emma by saying she would find out he's still a villain at heart. That might be the prism through which she forgives the whole hand/Rumple thing (assuming she does).

 

Assuming he tells her everything in 4.08 (seems a safe assumption), and she gets pissed at him (seems a logical reaction), I think they are unlikely to make up while he is under the mirror spell (she will be busy and he will be acting like an asshole). So if they are going to reunite after the spell is broken (4.10), I can see why he wouldn't be skipping down Main Street whooping with joy -- he'll still be wallowing and assuming it's all over. I can see why the writers would make their reunion separate --  she will either have to go looking for him, or he will find her later when she's alone. 

[Souris]

Can you describe it under spoiler bars, please?  I can't click on the link at work (well I can click it, it's just blocked).

 

I'm not using spoiler tags, because this is the spoilers thread so no need for those. Basically, long story short, Hook would be the child of Davy Jones and Calypso, and DJ somehow created the honeymoon house for Hook, based on a bunch of clues from items in the house.

 

I'm fully on-board with Davy Jones being Hook's father, and I know it's long been bandied about in the fandom. I think Davy being a fugitive from his servitude to the sea, but then being retaken (by Calypso? Poseidon? Ursula?) during the brief voyage with wee Killian, would fit what we know already. Maybe he didn't abandon Killian; maybe he was simply pulled back into the sea.

 

The Calypso idea is cool, but I'd be perfectly fine with Ma Jones being just a normal human woman. I really like the house tie-in in this particular theory.

[KingOfHearts]

 

He's too old for that. If he had something like that, it should have manifested years ago.

You know, the marketing always calls A&E the "master storytellers" but they're really the "master retconners".

[angelwoody]

This theory makes me giggle because when I think Davy Jones, I picture the one from The Monkees (RIP).   

[retrograde]

TV Fanatic interview with Elizabeth Mitchell. Nothing super spoilery but she drops a few little things about the future.

TVF: Moving forward, will we find out what she whispered to Gold at the end of the episode?

EM: Yes! We will find it out. I mean, I had it figured it out and I kind of have to put it all together and I got it right so it’s very possible that all the thoughts that people are putting together are fairly accurate. But, yes, we will find that out for sure.

If someone who has only been on the show a few episodes (and probably doesn't watch it regularly) figured it out, it must be something pretty straight forward.

[kili]

If someone who has only been on the show a few episodes (and probably doesn't watch it regularly) figured it out, it must be something pretty straight forward.

 

Given how pleased Rumple looked, I bet the DQ whispered "To get the hat to work, you must kill a one armed man and eat him with some Fava beans and a nice Chianti".

[Shanna Marie]

So if they are going to reunite after the spell is broken (4.10), I can see why he wouldn't be skipping down Main Street whooping with joy -- he'll still be wallowing and assuming it's all over. I can see why the writers would make their reunion separate --  she will either have to go looking for him, or he will find her later when she's alone.

Or maybe that's when he's spending some time dead for angst purposes. There's the "yay, the spell is broken!" happy reunion with everyone, and then after a while Emma starts to wonder where he is and there's that emotional about-face.

[scenicbyway]

So the key to Rumple's world domination is killing Hook after all?  He's got to be kicking himself for not doing it years ago or even yesterday.

 

I can see why the DQ wants Hook out of the picture, she just wants her sisters back and as long as one of them loves someone else even a little, she thinks there's no room for her.  She got rid of Anna and now she'll get rid of Hook, without actually doing the dirty work.

 

So we'll have angst for the next 3 episodes and then a happy family reunion (Hook, Emma & Henry) in 4.11.  I bet poor Charming will want to know where Hook is as well...

[El Seed]

If someone who has only been on the show a few episodes (and probably doesn't watch it regularly) figured it out, it must be something pretty straight forward.

 

 

OUaT is like a grown-up version of Blue's Clues; the obvious answer is most likely to be correct and about as subtle as a hammer.

 

So Rumpel finally gets to kill Hook, but how mad will he be when it turns out Hook is only mostly dead? "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

[maryle]

Really great theories here!

It gave me hope to see some normal CS evolution in this half.  I guess we will see sooner than later. Hook in the next episode will try to protect Emma. But I want to see her do something for him so there a new dynamic.

 

Emma and her parental relationship are too complex for this show; it's always  too similar (lost girl,the last final...) Emma felt abandoned, unloved... something happens and she finally realizes they love her.

So, not sure if snowing saving Emma could bring anything new at this point. But it will be probably a team effort that's fine with me.

[Jean]

The most obvious answer is an act of true love/sacrifice isn't it? Maybe Ingrid figured that out through Anna/Elsa but separated them before the hat was fully activated. She's not really after the hat's powers after all.

 

I love this part of EM's interview. Maybe she (and Robert) should sit in on the writers' pow wow as the voices of reason.

 

 

At this point and time? No! She’s doing horrible things to everyone. You can have sympathy for her but still try to stop her. That would be my mentality. I think in this particular circumstance, what choices do you make and she made a lot of not great, really selfish choices but hopefully she’ll figure it out. But should we be rooting for her? No! We’ve got to take her down but feel sympathy for her, too, but I wouldn’t want her to hurt the people they love!

[Rumsy4]

Knowing that Operation Mongoose is set to extend all through S4, it probably means that Robin is going to keep vacillating between Regina and "honor". I wonder how Regina will handle that, and how it is going to play into her arc. I still think Marian is a goner by the end of 4B, as I doubt divorce will be considered romantic enough for the Show.

[InsertWordHere]

Remember the mission Robin is supposed to have for Will in the 4.08? After the events of The Snow Queen, I'm worried he's just sending Will to the forest to pick up some pine cones so he can woo his audacious queen.

[HeimrArnadalr]

I'm putting this here because it contains a spoiler picture. Awesome theory about Killian's parentage. I love it beyond measure. Because it's so awesome, it won't happen.

I've liked this theory ever since I learned Hook's last name was 'Jones'.

 

David Jones would certainly be someone who could

a) have a magic bean, and

b) be willing to trade it for a brig made of enchanted wood.

 

They could also bring back Ursula in this manner, by making her and Calypso the same. 

[Bluerang1]

That's a super intersting theory about Killian! What'sa sad though is that A&E will probably use it, or it's already in their plans since the theory came from clues they put in place. The internet always figures out their plans.