Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

Just as we suspected, the Emma flashback episode is heavy on Emma/Regina scenes in the present.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm glad it looks like Lily is a friend of young Emma instead of a love interest for Henry!

[RadioGirl27]

 

How could any of them trust Hook again if he keeps two big things (the dagger and the hat) from the people who he now supposedly cares about?

What I think would happen: he keeps the secret longer enough to make everyone look stupid, everything blows up in his face, Emma and her family are mad at him for half an episode until he sacrifices his life for them, Emma saves him and everything is forgoten until the next villian decides to curse some other part of his body (I know we are all thinking the same one), and everything starts all over again.

 

Anyway, it seems that Colin said in an interview (I'm trying to find the link) tha Hook won't keep secrets from Emma, so I guess that means he would tell them someday.

Edited October 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

I'm torn on the blackmail thing. I really like Rumple and Hook together, and anything keeping Rumple in a villain role and not interacting with Belle on my screen is a good thing. On the other hand (hur hur), I'm very not fond of stories where a whole bunch of problems happen when one person keeps something from another person for no particularly good reason other than throwing up frustrating obstacles for the storyline, and I'm pretty sure that's what's happening.

 

I wish I could share others' optimism that Hook will tell Emma soon and there will be a long con of Rumple, but I don't see it happening -- Emma seems like she's going to be too busy dealing with other things in the next few episodes.

 

I am intrigued by how the Emma flashback fits into the whole story. 

[Jean]

So Lily is the friend whose life teen Emma ruined right? I wonder if it's a magical or normal variety. With a police and manager involved I'm guessing they both try to steal something and one turns on the other. (Please let it be a cheap sorcerer's hat from the Disney store.)

 

Since they didn't include "in Arendelle past" are Elsa's parents figments of her imagination or DQ shapeshifts as them? Maybe the DQ is making them face your worst nightmare scenario. Both Elsa and Emma think they are life ruiners?

[Serena]

I know, I know! Emma saves Lily's father's life (he's in the press release) BUT the father is actually terrible and abusive and Lily was running away from him, and by saving him Emma doomed her!

[KingOfHearts]

 

Both Elsa and Emma think they are life ruiners?

If Regina is just a figment in the graveyard, then I'm game. I want to know why she's so determined to find DQ all of a sudden.

Edited October 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

So Lily is the friend whose life teen Emma ruined right? I wonder if it's a magical or normal variety. With a police and manager involved I'm guessing they both try to steal something and one turns on the other. (Please let it be a cheap sorcerer's hat from the Disney store.)

 

That sounds about right. The casting call described her as having a "charming, take-no-prisoners punk exterior and the heart of a secretive, insecure opportunist." I wonder if she (and her father) con Emma?

 

What am I saying? Of course the ep will have Emma come off looking bad in comparison to Regina. I'm really pissed off at the show for making me dread the ep where they FINALLY give Emma backstory by tying it to Regina.

 

I want to know why she's so determined to find DQ all of a sudden.

 

Because DQ's magic has bested her, and that can of course not be allowed?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Souris

[maryle]

What am I saying? Of course the ep will have Emma come off looking bad in comparison to Regina. I'm really pissed off at the show for making me dread the ep where they FINALLY give Emma backstory by tying it to Regina.

 

 

Regina is the one I have a real problem with I just do not care anymore about her in general.

Honestly I skipped her scene so far.  Sadly my reaction is cause of her soapy SL but also because of what I learned about some of her fans. It just tarnish the character to me. Cannot help it.

So next week will be problematic. I want the Emma story without the whiny 

(You destroy my life)

Regina !

 

 

So I'm rea

[KAOS Agent]

So two days ago Snow was so worried about losing Baby Snowflake that she wouldn't even let David hold him, but now she's totally okay with handing him over to Belle? Why not Granny and her crossbow? Or Red and her wolf powers of protection? When you have long term friends who have demonstrated skills at protection and battle and in Granny's case, child care, why would you leave your baby with Belle? I don't care if Belle lived with them for a few months in the missing year, she's the last person who should be taking care of Snowflake.

 

Also, they're going to make me regret hoping for an Emma flashback, aren't they? 

[Amerilla]

I'm going to speculate with absolutely no foundation whatsoever that Snowflake is originally going to be farmed out to someone like Granny or Red but they get called away and Belle gets volunteered at the last minute to preserve the sanctity of Date Night - which is totally what the parents of a three week old baby would do, go out for a Date Night.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Amerilla

[MaiLuna]

Episode 5 stills: http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery5/gallery5/gallery.htm

Edited October 20, 2014 by MaiLuna

[Souris]

Ha, is Regina carrying Sidney around in a compact mirror?

 

Poor Elsa, she looks so sad.

 

I feel like we’re going to get Elsa facing off against the Snow Queen and Emma facing off against Regina in this ep. Which bothers me because I wanted this ep to be all about Emma and her backstory, darn it.

[Jean]

I think it's kind of funny that dimwit Belle is stuck babysitting and new mom Snow is out chasing Will. They're at least making an efford to give Snow something to do even with her shorter working hours. Any chance Snow and Will know each other?

 

Also they must've shifted all the wardrobe budget to the CGI dept or something because Elsa's cape looks like the cheapest polyester material ever. Why the hell is it bright purple? That makes it worse. In the movie it was some dark color right?

 

Poor Emma. She looks so damn happy with Elsa and then you see her with the black hole and clearly it's sucking out her soul. Glue yourself to Elsa's side! Even if she has to turn into Olaf's new best friend, it's still preferable.

[scenicbyway]

Why is Elsa even wearing a cloak?  I thought the cold never bothered her anyway!

[Souris]

I had a thought about the next ep. In the previews, we saw Elsa seeing Anna in the forest. I'm pretty sure Anna isn't actually there, so I wonder if the DQ is creating illusions to mess with Elsa. I don't see why anybody else would create such an illusion. If so, might she do the same thing to Emma?

 

There was that interview where JMo said something about Emma and Regina hashing things out without actually hashing things out, which I thought was worded rather oddly. So perhaps there's a point where Emma and Regina are together in the forest, but Regina is actually an illusion that the DQ is using to mess with Emma. 

[Emma]

Poor Emma. She looks so damn happy with Elsa and then you see her with the black hole and clearly it's sucking out her soul. Glue yourself to Elsa's side! Even if she has to turn into Olaf's new best friend, it's still preferable.

First thing I noticed.

I hope those scenes with Elsa come after the ones with Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why is Elsa even wearing a cloak?  I thought the cold never bothered her anyway!

It looks like a Halloween witch cape from a dollar store.

[CatMack]

Why is Regina wearing 90s slacks? Is that a thing now? Is that the trend that's coming back next?

[Minneapple]

Also they must've shifted all the wardrobe budget to the CGI dept or something because Elsa's cape looks like the cheapest polyester material ever.

I have noticed this show's costumes photograph terribly but look OK on screen. Elsa's blue dress, for example. And Emma's date dress from last night -- meh in pictures, but not bad on screen.

 

To add to the annoying "Can Emma and Regina overcome their differences to become BFFs" theme is this from TVLine (don't think it's been posted):

 

Regina, of course, has been a bit wary of the Savior as of late, given the fact that Emma’s time-travel hijinks are what waylaid her budding romance with Robin Hood in the first place. So in this episode, titled “Breaking Glass,” Jennifer Morrison said, “You’re going to see Emma really fight to prove to Regina that she wants to be a friend, that she wants to have a good relationship with her.”

 

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE FRIENDS WITH REGINA? DIDN'T SHE TRY TO KILL YOU? Did the writers forget about this part? Am I just insane?

 

Ahem.

 

http://tvline.com/2014/10/20/once-upon-a-time-emma-regina-centric-episode/

 

Poor Emma. She looks so damn happy with Elsa and then you see her with the black hole and clearly it's sucking out her soul. Glue yourself to Elsa's side! Even if she has to turn into Olaf's new best friend, it's still preferable.

 

INORITE? I'd give a thousand dollars to the writers if they kept Elsa around and made her best friends with Emma. Sniff. I already miss the Frozen characters and they're not even gone yet.

[pezgirl7]

I just saw the set photos again of Hook holding the hat, and he has his hook, so I don't think he's getting his hand back anytime soon.

http://hookier.tumblr.com/post/99639753569/colin-on-set-10-09-14-x

I wouldn't mind so much if Emma wanted to be on friendly terms with Regina for Henry's sake, but to do it because she feels like she has to help Regina get her happy ending is just lame.

[Jean]

I'm gonna go sacrifice some virgin chickens in the hopes that some Disney lackey is sitting in the editing room going: "What is this crap? Cut it. We need more Elsa and Anna. Milk those Frozen billion dollar teats!"

In all seriousness, I do think Elsa is underutilized and the present stuff is really lacking the Frozen presence. I can't imagine the "tuning in only for Frozen" fans being all that interested if that's all they're here for. The Anna character journeys are great but they feel like a character study piece not a story.

On a brighter note that still of DQ kneeling with Elsa is fabulous. It screams single white female, with a weird motherly undertone.

[Rumsy4]

Man, Elsa's purple cloak is hideous! I hope it looks better on-screen. I just want Regina to go away... 

[InsertWordHere]

Man, Elsa's purple cloak is hideous! I hope it looks better on-screen. I just want Regina to go away... 

It didn't look good in the promo, TBH.

[KAOS Agent]

 

"It takes off from the idea that we saw in the [season] premiere, that Emma [as Savior] has to bring everyone a ‘happy ending,’ including Regina.”

 

Emma doesn't have to do jack shit, Adam. And to say that she has to give the happy ending to the woman who stole hers and that of an entire kingdom is really, really sick. I hate this kind of thinking. Everyone is responsible for their own happy endings, it's not even close to right to put the mantle of fix everyone on Emma.

[Jean]

I forgot to add, I hope teen Emma is a good actress and has great chemistry with EM. Anybody seen her in anything to have an opinion? She's got some pretty big shoes to follow after all the great young actors/actresses that have been on Once. Kid Snow, both Baes, Rumple, Wendy, and even Roland were all great. How old is Robbie Kay? Can we count young Papa Rumple among that company?

Ironic that the main kid on the show, is the only one I find lacking.

[Souris]

Some filming info:

Tonight’s entertainment consists of watching my dog growl out the window at crews setting up to film a #OUAT scene outside our condo.

Snow Queen + blonde teen having confrontation at a bus stop

 

And YVRShoots posted that they were filming a Snow Queen and teen Emma flashback, but deleted it:

Deleted earlier tweet. It is an Emma flashback but not with Snow Queen apparently, people there tell me.

#OnceUponaTime filming some kind of flashback scene (possibly Emma's) at Commercial & Venables in east Vancouver tonight.

 

So one source says it's DQ and Emma flashback, another says just Emma. I tend to believe the first source, since she's actually there.

[Emma]

Even more Emma flashback scenes?? What a lovely surprise.

[Serena]

This is for episode 10, right? Nice.

[kili]

So two days ago Snow was so worried about losing Baby Snowflake that she wouldn't even let David hold him, but now she's totally okay with handing him over to Belle? Why not Granny and her crossbow? Or Red and her wolf powers of protection?

 

Maybe they think that Rumple is just a command away from saving the day?

[RadioGirl27]

I'm really happy with all this spoilers about Emma, but I'm also very worried. I'm wary about the retconing they are going to do with what we know about Emma's past to adapt it to whatever story they want to tell about the DQ. The other thing that worries me is that, with so much Emma in 4A, we are not going to see her much in 4B.

[YaddaYadda]

It's not necessarily retconning though seeing as we have zero clue about Emma's past is other than what happened with Neal and the little things she said here and there.  4B will clearly be focused on Regina, sadly.  I'll be busy with YouTube then.

[Emma]

I'm going to enjoy every minute of Emma in 4A. Warts and all. I'm taking every smile, laugh, strength, vulnerability, cheesy lines, kisses, magic, family time, Elsa, and everything in between and hold on dearly. It will help me get through the horror of 4B.

[RadioGirl27]

It's not necessarily retconning though seeing as we have zero clue about Emma's past is other than what happened with Neal and the little things she said here and there.  4B will clearly be focused on Regina, sadly.  I'll be busy with YouTube then.

Yeah, maybe retconing is not the right word. But, because we only know little bits about Emma's past, they can totally make the DQ the only responsible of Emma's crappy childhood, dismissing Regina's role there, or even worse, they can make Emma look like a brat responsible of her own crappy childhood. That's what worries me.

Anyway, it seems there was some shooting last night in Stevenson, probably with Rumple and Regina.

[Emma]

I'm keeping hope that they'll do right by the Emma flashbacks. Not only because we've had like one but they're really focused on Emma this arc. Plus the Frozen tie in being handled more tightly than other stories.

[YaddaYadda]

dismissing Regina's role there

 

They've already dismissed Regina's role in this as well as Rumple's.  So that's done and over with.  I'll die of shock if something comes up ever about Regina fucking up Emma and everyone's lives for her stupid revenge.  If Regina tells Emma she ruined her life, then Emma should technically reply that Regina ruined her life too and tried to kill her.  I refuse to over-analyze anything to do with Regina.  I barely talk about her anymore, I don't go in her thread and I ignore her scenes.  I feel much better about it even though I'll never ever be down with Emma trying to be her friend.  She should just package Henry to Regina and adopt a cat, they're actually more loyal.

[Curio]

I just had a really depressing thought. So we know Emma's powers start to go haywire soon (I forget which episode it's going to happen) because of the behind-the-scenes filming showing her running away from everyone and the lamp post falling over. I think we also know from that filming that Hook reaches out to her and she flips out and says don't touch me. What if her emotions are causing her powers to go whacky because she's upset with Hook because she found out about him lying to her about his Rumple shenanigans?

 

Ugh, someone please tell me this won't happen.

[YaddaYadda]

I think that might be 407 or 408 (I think it's 408).  And Rumple and Belle are also there, so who knows.  I find it odd that Emma would suddenly lose control over her powers just like that.  My money is on DQ doing something.  She was able to block Elsa's powers which they didn't care to elaborate on (and I don't care about that deleted scene which we're supposed to take at face value which again is completely stupid) so I'm guessing this will come back when it's time to address Emma's powers going wonky.

[Jean]

EM pretty much sold me on the Emma/DQ backstory with that one scene/word of "Emma." But I remain the right to revise my opinion later. Also they can't muck it up too badly when it's tied so closely to the Frozen folks.

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10/19/once-upon-a-time-georgina-haig-on-becoming-elsa-and-if-the-frozen-characters-could-stick-around

Not sure if this Haig interview was posted. Nothing spoilery but this was interesting when talking about DQ/Elsa.

 

 

Well, like relatives in real life, sometimes things can be complicated. It’s funny, because in the Storybrooke world she has such a different relationship with her to the Arendale world, because obviously she’s approaching it from two different sets of realities and memories. That’s been really fun to get to play. But either way, in both worlds, she’s drawn to her - even though in the Storybrooke world she is mistrusting, she’s still drawn to her because she’s like her and she’s never met anyone like her. I guess she still feels like she could learn from this person.

I think that's a clever way to do it. It also gives the actresses room to do a lot of different things with it. At the same time, clearly Emma and young Emma will be having the same type of stuff with DQ so that's another layer along with Elsa/Emma being friends. I know they won't even begin to touch the potential of this story but even doing it on a shallow level will still be heads and shoulders above S2 and some of S3.

 

 

The other thing that worries me is that, with so much Emma in 4A, we are not going to see her much in 4B.

I suppose that's fair. I think they've always tried to split it between Emma/Rumple and then soul sucker/Snow.

 

I can deal with less Emma and Rumple only if they don't have to play prop to the soul sucker. There's a world of difference between 3B and 4A. They're making a concerted effort to give the soul sucker her own story that's entirely separate from Frozen. When she's involved, she takes the starring role like the saving Marian stuff. Rumple's hat story will dovetail with the Frozen stuff later but in the meantime he's leading his own material. On the flip side, Emma doesn't get her own story, she's stuck playing prop and patsy to the soul sucker. Her first backstory since S2 (and only 2nd in the entire series) has to be shared and spent with propping that black hole. "Emma/Rumple's" arc involves different characters and they get to be their own characters. For example Charming/Elsa saved the day in 4x02 and Emma saved the day in 4x03. There's always room for other characters to shine and step into the spotlight.

 

In the black hole's arc and what they like to pretend is also Snow's, it's usally just Mary Sue Victim, guest starring cardboards and victimizers. In one scene of 4x03, the DQ has managed to be more complex and a character in her own right than the entire run of Zelena. Part of that is probably Frozen effect/Disney control but a big part of that is whose story she's involved with. A&E came up with Zelena because they wanted to know what would happen if someone was jealous of the leech. I'm 100% positive no one was even thinking of Emma when they initially came up with DQ.

[NotBothered]

I wonder if when her memories become unblocked her powers become unblocked as well?  

[KingOfHearts]

 

What if her emotions are causing her powers to go whacky because she's upset with Hook because she found out about him lying to her about his Rumple shenanigans?

Well, there's your Let It Go parallel. She can't hold her magic back any more. I was worried Regina was going to be Elsa after she secluded herself, but I'm happy it turns out to be Emma.

Edited October 21, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

Given there are at least three flashbacks to Emma's childhood (that we know of), I have to assume her magic freak out will be more related to that and DQ. Hook lying or pulling away could make things worse, though.

Edited October 21, 2014 by retrograde

[RadioGirl27]

Given there are at least three flashbacks to Emma's childhood (that we know of), I have to assume her magic freak out will be more related to that and DQ. Hook lying or pulling away could make things worse, though.

Yeah, I think they are going to draw a parallel between the DQ messing with Elsa in Arandelle and with Emma in the past, and with both of them in Storybrooke. Hook would play Anna´s role.

Edited October 21, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[kili]

Ugh, someone please tell me this won't happen.

 

You never know with these writers. They have said that Hook will be Anna to Emma's Elsa, so if they follow that, shutting Hook out is like when Elsa stormed off into the mountains shutting out Anna. Hook's calm confidence in Emma's magic has often been what has caused her to be able to control and use it. She has often used her magic to save him and others she loves. So, it would show continuity if he continues to serve as a levening agent until she gains better control herself. They even made a point of Anna still being necessary to help Elsa control her magic.

 

Perhaps one of the lessons Emma learns this season is to not only accept the people who love her, but to let them love her. To let them help her.

 

Of course, with Hook being a dumb a$$ and letting himself become Rumple's assistant and doing evil again and not telling her about it, Emma is right not to trust him.  So, I don't know where the writers are going.

[Souris]

Ep 10 title.

 

Ugh with Regina peeking around the side of the script. If they give her and Robin the Gerda/Kai story I WILL FLIP EVERY TABLE IN EXISTENCE. I WILL FLIP THE PERIODIC TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE WATER TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE TABLE OF CONTENTS OF EVERY BOOK IN EXISTENCE.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Souris

[maryle]

4 b is really mysterious because the focus this arc is essentially on Emma, Frozen plus The Charming plus Hook.

Rumple has a really interesting arc too

 

 So I really dreadful 4b to be like 3b(The worse arc, for me) but the fact is they actually do really good rating wise with this formula and if Regina is clearly a favorite character she is also very hate and just do the same Witche - Evil arc will be so much a repeat of last year.

That I believe it cannot be that bad. I hope for Maleficient to be a fae and not just focus on Regina.

 It will have a backstory of Hook and we  will learn about his father ( David Jones, I hope) in 4b too and I'm still believe an official declaration( TLK or ILV) of love between Emma and Hook  before the 4b final.

[RadioGirl27]

 

Ep 10 title.

 

Ugh with Regina peeking around the side of the script. If they give her and Robin the Gerda/Kai story I WILL FLIP EVERY TABLE IN EXISTENCE. I WILL FLIP THE PERIODIC TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE WATER TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE TABLE OF CONTENTS OF EVERY BOOK IN EXISTENCE.

I've been dreading that since the beginning. And knowing the love this writers have for Regina and the fact that it makes no sense at all to give that storyline to them, of course they will.

Edited October 21, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

Shattered Sight. Breaking Glass. Smash the Mirror. 

 

I'm sensing a theme here...

Edited October 21, 2014 by Curio

[maryle]

If they give her and Robin the Gerda/Kai story I WILL FLIP EVERY TABLE IN EXISTENCE

 

 

But  but it will make no sense at all to build up CS and Emma in this arc. For at the end just give the most compelling story to the triangle of Doom. Ofc they will do it !

 It will be exactly like a horrifIc nightmare, CS will repeat the 4b arc (secret not told) and Regina will have  to do an arc of love toward Robin or Marian ( her love is from the soul) and it will be the most romantic love story of all the time and all the realm.

[angelwoody]

Ep 10 title.

 

Ugh with Regina peeking around the side of the script. If they give her and Robin the Gerda/Kai story I WILL FLIP EVERY TABLE IN EXISTENCE. I WILL FLIP THE PERIODIC TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE WATER TABLE. I WILL FLIP THE TABLE OF CONTENTS OF EVERY BOOK IN EXISTENCE.

Your threats of mass table violence amuse me greatly.  :-)