Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

Because there's nothing that the fans of a couple enjoy watching more than half of their OTP dying, even if it's of old age....

A&E still have their fingers on the pulse of what their fans want to watch, I see.

Honestly, if that's what happens, how it that supposed to want to make RB fans stick around?????

[cappoe]

5 minutes ago, Souris said:

Because there's nothing that the fans of a couple enjoy watching more than half of their OTP dying, even if it's of old age....

A&E still have their fingers on the pulse of what their fans want to watch, I see.

Honestly, if that's what happens, how it that supposed to want to make RB fans stick around?????

I'm assuming that Rumple will want to break the DO curse so he can die and be reunited with Belle in the afterlife but to me this just reeks as another way to get rid of a character they have no interest in exploring anymore.

Did they ever care for Belle though? Yall ready for that 0.4 on Friday?

It's been what 5 years in SB, 5 years in SB equates to a whole lifetime in another realm. That makes zero sense but this show is so convoluted at this point.

Edited October 24, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

Wow!! This is bad. Really bad. Worse than Wish!Belle being reduced to a bag of bones in the Wish Realm. Poor Belle. I guess Rumbelle never got that TLK either, if Rumple is still the Dark One. But maybe he isn't the Dark One, and that's the Big Shocking Twist. 

[KingOfHearts]

Sara Tomko, the actress who plays Tiger Lily, posted on her Twitter that she's coming back to OUAT. However, she later deleted the tweet.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Why would they even *want* to go to a realm where time moves faster for them than it does for the people they know and love/hate in Storybrooke?

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe Henry aged faster because he went to visit his grandparents, spent a few years with them, then came out aged faster than everyone else. They said it would be explained in the first two episodes, but maybe they meant first four.

While they do seem to be doing some Up parallels, I keep thinking of the "Who Wants to Live Forever" sequence from Highlander, where he's immortal and doesn't age as he watches the woman he loves grow old and die.

[Rumsy4]

36 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Why would they even *want* to go to a realm where time moves faster for them than it does for the people they know and love/hate in Storybrooke?

Rumbelle tended to isolate themselves from the rest of the Nevengers, unless either group needed the other group's help (isolation is a classic tactic used by abusers, but we're all going to ignore that). So, I'm not surprised they left Storybrooke. Family dinners like that Last Supper would've been super awkward as a regular event. Even if time moved differently in that realm compared to Storybrooke, it's not rapid ageing. I might feel bad for Belle, but I really don't, because she chose that life, and I guess we are supposed to believe Rumple stayed "good". 

[CCTC]

7 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Rumbelle tended to isolate themselves from the rest of the Nevengers

That made the last supper scene in the finale seem a little off and awkward, that and the fact that they copied The Last Supper....

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, CCTC said:

that and the fact that they copied The Last Supper....

I know! Why they thought it was a good idea, is beyond me. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

15 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Why they thought it was a good idea, is beyond me. 

Once Upon a Time: A Summation

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Rumbelle tended to isolate themselves from the rest of the Nevengers, unless either group needed the other group's help (isolation is a classic tactic used by abusers, but we're all going to ignore that). So, I'm not surprised they left Storybrooke. Family dinners like that Last Supper would've been super awkward as a regular event. Even if time moved differently in that realm compared to Storybrooke, it's not rapid ageing. I might feel bad for Belle, but I really don't, because she chose that life, and I guess we are supposed to believe Rumple stayed "good". 

Not technically, but you'd think Rumple at least would resent that it meant Regina, Hook, the Charmings etc. would "outlive" his wife. And Belle at least seems like someone who would want friends. Of course, why do I bother, when the characters are serving the plot rather than the other way around?

[Souris]

If RB was living in some other realm and having no contact with other realms, would they even know that time was passing differently for them than SB folks?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Souris

[cappoe]

Seriously yall it's clear that CS and Snowing got the best end of the deal. 

They're peacefully in SB, raising their families and being near all their friends. 

Charming and Snow get to be a grandpa and grandma

Killian and Emma get to be a mother and father.

Regina and Rumple are out of SB.

And WE the fans can leave the show.

It's like the best deal, at least we don't have to see any of our characters die on screen. IDC if it's of old age. I 100% prefer what they did with CS then what they're doing w/ Rumbelle. They're taking away the imagination. 

[Rumsy4]

19 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Belle at least seems like someone who would want friends

Yeah. She used to. Before her life became all about redeeming Rumple. 

[Camera One]

8 hours ago, cappoe said:

I laugh though that they think Rumbelle fans want to see Belle die, even if it's of old age.

These are people who believed Outlaw Queen fans were clamouring to see Not!Robin acting shady and ditching Regina for The Evil Queen.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Souris said:

If RB was living in some other realm and having no contact with other realms, would they even know that time was passing differently for them than SB folks?

You'd expect Rumple to be on top of that kind of thing.

[Camera One]

Did we really need to see Gideon again?  Just because of him, they needed to age Belle up to almost death?  Hopefully, her fate is not as bad as Old Snowing.

I'm guessing Rumple froze Belle to get himself some of Rapunzel's magic hair.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I've never watched "Up" before and had heard good things about it, so the idea that maybe the Rumbelle episode will take elements from "Up" made me borrow from the library and watch it tonight.  I liked it but didn't think it was great.  I guess it was partially ruined because I kept thinking about how it related to Rumple and Belle.

Rumple is nothing like the old man in the movie.  More likely, he's the one killing the bird to get its magical feathers.  

Edited October 25, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

13 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

So Belle, Ms. I Want to See the World, is living in a secluded cottage for the rest of her years? We can also assume she has undergone more years of Rumple's abuse. Being stuck with him isn't exactly a happy ending, imo. If anything, it validates bad relationships.

And the quote in the trailer from Belle, "All I want is a life with you, Rumple."  That's ALL she wants?  She could have been an interesting character had she broke things off with Rumple in Season 2, or in Season 4, or in Season 5, or in Season 6, and moved on.  

11 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Sara Tomko, the actress who plays Tiger Lily, posted on her Twitter that she's coming back to OUAT. However, she later deleted the tweet.

I don't get why Tiger Lily was brought back for flashbacks in the Season 6 finale.  Did they think she was such a hit with the idiotic Black Fairy origin story?  I'd rather see Original Recipe Blue.  Did they want to delay the announcement for a more marketable time?  

Edited October 25, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Rumple is nothing like the old man in the movie.  More likely, he's the one killing the bird to get its magical feathers.  

And yet the writing in OUAT would inevitably woobify the one killing the bird. The writers seem to think a few callbacks to iconic scenes from different movies will make Rumbelle more romantic.

[Amerilla]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

So Belle, Ms. I Want to See the World, is living in a secluded cottage for the rest of her years?

 

Yeah, but Belle's desire to "see the world" that was always pretty spotty characterization on the show's part. It popped up occasionally to drive a plot-point, but like the rest of the characters, Belle was stuck in Storybrooke by the demands of the premise. And with Emilie not getting picked up for S7, they obviously just decided to play that through to the end. 

(As someone who unashamedly really liked the final season of Lost, I think it would have been interesting if Jen and Em had stayed on and they had played out that premise of Emma/Hook Prime and Belle/Rumpel getting new personas in the real world and meeting up all over again. I know I'm probably a lone voice in the wilderness on that.)

Even in a better show, where Belle was more fully-realized as an autonomous character, I could see it playing out as it seems to be in the upcoming episode. After everything that happened to her S1-6, it makes sense that a Post-S6 finale Belle and Rumpel would find some sort of refuge where they could raise Gideon without drama or trauma.

In its own weird way, this premise is more true to Belle's character as it was shown, not told. Belle spent most of her life in isolation. She spent decades in captivity. Her chosen life partner is someone who essentially sold his soul to gain an illusion of the safety. Most of her outside relationships have been shown to be fairly transitory and transactional. So the idea that she's be comfortable retreating to seclusion with her own small family and (presumably) a long reading list has some logic. 

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

I laugh though that they think Rumbelle fans want to see Belle die, even if it's of old age.

I think Rumbelle fans have already written 56,875 iterations of that scenario over the years, and 99% of them probably did a better job of it that whatever they're going to see on Friday.

[Mabinogia]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

The writers seem to think a few callbacks to iconic scenes from different movies will make Rumbelle more romantic.

Nothing will make that relationship  romantic to me. It's an abusive relationship in my eyes and it makes me sad that Belle was trapped in it all that time. At least if she had died a tragic young death she would have escaped from her controlling, lying, manipulative spouse. Poor Belle. She's one of my favorite Disney women and this is what they did to her, stuck her in a perpetual loop with a man who lies to her until he loses her, then wins her back only to lie to her again, and again, and again, apparently for decades. UGH They are the worst romantic pairing the show has....had, until we got Henry and Murderella.

[Mitch]

21 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Why would they even *want* to go to a realm where time moves faster for them than it does for the people they know and love/hate in Storybrooke?

True,..wouldn't you want to go to a realm where things moved slower so you could pop back and watch your enemy as an old invalid...I would think Rump would want to see Zelena in a walker to taunt her.

I know the realm "time moves differently" thing is purely plot driven, but why didn't they use that in the past, to explain why the Enchanted Forest was still stuck in the middle ages ..and why we would have their stories...they always acted like time moved the same...

 

18 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

20 hours ago, CCTC said:

 

Well, the weird way Regina was looking at Rumple during that dinner was creepy enough for me.

Oh God, no more of the Rump/Regina."we always had a connection" crap...UGGHHHHH

So now that freakin' cottage of Rump's is going to be idiot Lucy's version of Henry's Black Castle play set...at least the cottage doesnt have those weird sharp edges...but that does not look like something a bunch of multicultural hipsters would choose to put in their kids playground...a cartoon version of a European cottage?

[Camera One]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Belle won't die.  The Belle-is-Old scenes will likely be revealed near the end as a POSSIBLE future that Rumple sees, causing him to make the oh-so-difficult decision to leave his loved ones and try to save them.  Even if Belle is old for real, one flick of the wrist and she'll be young again, so I have trouble believing that it will stick.  After all, they just made Old Hook young again and that wasn't hard.  They de-aged Pinocchio and Gideon.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Camera One

[Mitch]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that Belle won't die.  The Belle-is-Old scenes will likely be revealed near the end as a POSSIBLE future that Rumple sees, causing him to make the oh-so-difficult decision to leave his loved ones and try to save them.  Even if Belle is old for real, one flick of the wrist and she'll be young again, so I have trouble believing that it will stick.  After all, they just made Old Hook young again and that wasn't hard.  They de-aged Pinocchio and Gideon.

Your right about that..(it will be kind of like Walking Dead where they had a weird shot of Rick as an older man..was it a dream....everyone else is the same age..or a flashforward) but...again, the writers are too lazy to think thing through...if turning young again is so easy, why does anyone age? Why didn't Cora turn herself back into Vixen Cora???

[Serena]

On 25/10/2017 at 0:39 AM, cappoe said:

Seriously yall it's clear that CS and Snowing got the best end of the deal. 

They're peacefully in SB, raising their families and being near all their friends. 

Charming and Snow get to be a grandpa and grandma

Killian and Emma get to be a mother and father.

Regina and Rumple are out of SB.

And WE the fans can leave the show.

It's like the best deal, at least we don't have to see any of our characters die on screen. IDC if it's of old age. I 100% prefer what they did with CS then what they're doing w/ Rumbelle. They're taking away the imagination. 

Yeah, seriously. This is actually great for the only people I care about, CS and Snowing. They are together and happy with all their friends, Emma gets another chance to be a mom with a child who's hopefully gonna be less annoying and will have zero Bagel genes, and they don't even have to pretend to be friends with Regina and Rumple anymore. If someone had asked me to say what my ideal ending was for OUAT, I would have totally said this while being resigned to the fact that Emma would NEVER get rid of Regina. AND YET SHE DID. 

Of course, A&E did all this *without* meaning to create the greatest happy ending ever. Their obsession with Rumple and Regina, for once in their/our lives, played out in our favour. 

EDIT: also, you know what's gonna be great?

Quote

When will we get more Drizella on Once Upon a Time? — Kurt
During Friday’s Halloween-themed hour, Henry will bring out a new side to her Hyperion Heights counterpart Ivy in a way that may make fans, hmm, a little nervous. “No one’s ever really taken the time or come close enough to actually ask her how she’s doing or try and see something more than this façade she puts on to hide all of her pain,” Adelaide Kane tells me. “Henry’s just the first person, and I would say probably the first man, who is gentle with her, asks some difficult questions, and takes a genuine interest in her feelings, in her life and what her experience is for her. He tries to find out maybe a little bit why she is the way she is, why she is so nasty and petty because people aren’t just born like that.”

How they're doing the above because they want to make Ivy the new Abigail and instead they'll have people shipping Henry and Ivy because they're that incompetent. Quote me on this, people WILL ship this more than they ship him with Murderella.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Serena

[cappoe]

Quote

When will we get more Drizella on Once Upon a Time? — Kurt
During Friday’s Halloween-themed hour, Henry will bring out a new side to her Hyperion Heights counterpart Ivy in a way that may make fans, hmm, a little nervous. “No one’s ever really taken the time or come close enough to actually ask her how she’s doing or try and see something more than this façade she puts on to hide all of her pain,” Adelaide Kane tells me. “Henry’s just the first person, and I would say probably the first man, who is gentle with her, asks some difficult questions, and takes a genuine interest in her feelings, in her life and what her experience is for her. He tries to find out maybe a little bit why she is the way she is, why she is so nasty and petty because people aren’t just born like that.”

Oh yay, a love triangle how original.

Irony is she probably has more chemistry with Henry then his true love. I mean his own mother has more chemistry.

Edited October 26, 2017 by cappoe

[Kktjones]

17 minutes ago, Serena said:

  Quote

When will we get more Drizella on Once Upon a Time? — Kurt
During Friday’s Halloween-themed hour, Henry will bring out a new side to her Hyperion Heights counterpart Ivy in a way that may make fans, hmm, a little nervous. “No one’s ever really taken the time or come close enough to actually ask her how she’s doing or try and see something more than this façade she puts on to hide all of her pain,” Adelaide Kane tells me. “Henry’s just the first person, and I would say probably the first man, who is gentle with her, asks some difficult questions, and takes a genuine interest in her feelings, in her life and what her experience is for her. He tries to find out maybe a little bit why she is the way she is, why she is so nasty and petty because people aren’t just born like that.”

This actually made me wonder if maybe Ivy isn't the LGBT character they promised would be identified by the fourth episode. I REALLY hope they don't do some kind of "she's nasty b/c she's had to hide who she really is" story. Not that it isn't a worthy topic worth exploring, but in the hands of these writers it would be a disaster! 

 

On a completely different note, can someone that's still watching tell me - is Rogers wearing eyeliner?? I just saw a gif of him in his "detective uniform" and it totally looks like he's still sporting guyliner. If so, has it ever been acknowledged?

[cappoe]

6 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

This actually made me wonder if maybe Ivy isn't the LGBT character they promised would be identified by the fourth episode. I REALLY hope they don't do some kind of "she's nasty b/c she's had to hide who she really is" story. Not that it isn't a worthy topic worth exploring, but in the hands of these writers it would be a disaster! 

 

On a completely different note, can someone that's still watching tell me - is Rogers wearing eyeliner?? I just saw a gif of him in his "detective uniform" and it totally looks like he's still sporting guyliner. If so, has it ever been acknowledged?

Of course she isn't the LGBT character, it's Alice.  Ivy is gonna be in love with Henry and there will be a boring love triangle and she will have more chemistry with him then his true love. Which goes to show how much of a flop this entire reboot is. Being on the shoulders of a pairing that have zero chemistry and whose heroine cannot act at all.

 

I completely think more people will love and enjoy this relationship over the true love one.

Edited October 26, 2017 by cappoe

[Shanna Marie]

23 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

On a completely different note, can someone that's still watching tell me - is Rogers wearing eyeliner?? I just saw a gif of him in his "detective uniform" and it totally looks like he's still sporting guyliner. If so, has it ever been acknowledged?

I don't think so. It's just that Colin is very fair-skinned and has very dark eyelashes -- with his coloring, he could get away without wearing eyeliner or mascara even if he were a woman trying to look made up. Rogers looks very different from either of the Hook incarnations, with his eyes showing up as lighter and brighter without the eyeliner. I think it's amusing that Rogers looks (to me) a lot younger than real Hook, even though he's actually "old" Hook after a de-aging spell.

[cappoe]

http://www.tvguide.com/videos/play/once-upon-a-time-costumes-adelaide-kane/

I spy with my little eye Dr. Facilier, the only good part of the Princess and the Frog movie. 

[KingOfHearts]

I've noticed no one has said a word about Drizella/Ivy. She's just kind of there. No hateable, no likable, just behaving like a background prop. She'll probably end up betraying Tremaine, only to be killed al a Graham. In all the press releases, she is listed as a guest star. From the way 7x04 is being talked about in the spoiler room, it sounds to me like she'll befriend Henry or at least consider his words. Or... she betrays Tremaine because she doesn't want Anastasia resurrected, and thus gets killed from being even more "evil" than her.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

5 hours ago, Serena said:

Quote me on this, people WILL ship this more than they ship him with Murderella.

I already do, just from that blurb alone!

[Mabinogia]

Yep, I'm already rooting for Ivy to break up Henry and Borella. She'll get bonus points if she either kills Cinders or casts some spell that turns her into a totally new (and at least competent) actress. If I thought for a hot minute they would actually rethink the pairing and break up their "Chosen Couple" I'd come back to the show just for that. 

[Camera One]

We will shed a tear for Ivy because all she ever wanted was the love of her evil mother.  Since we have never seen that before.  A&E teased she will be more evil than she seems.  No doubt she will do stuff to break up Hinderella.  Too bad no one cares.

[cappoe]

Just the countdown to cancellation at this point. This season is going to be completely ignored a year from now. I don't even think they'll even bring it up in conventions.

 

But I would love for Adam and Eddy to go to a convention I would personally rub it in their face that this season failed and how does it make them feel. BC to me I sleep with their tears of failure.

Edited October 26, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

38 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

If I thought for a hot minute they would actually rethink the pairing and break up their "Chosen Couple" I'd come back to the show just for that. 

They shot themselves in the foot by giving Henry and Failurealla a child together. Otherwise it would have been much easier to cut their losses. With Robin, it took them two seasons to kill him off, and even then, they brought him back to give Clone Queen a boyfriend. A&E will continue to double down on their mistakes. 

[cappoe]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

They shot themselves in the foot by giving Henry and Failurealla a child together. Otherwise it would have been much easier to cut their losses. With Robin, it took them two seasons to kill him off, and even then, they brought him back to give Clone Queen a boyfriend. A&E will continue to double down on their mistakes. 

They can't double down on this mistake cause this is the last season. But lucky for them nobody will ever acknowledge this season as canon or at all. 

[Camera One]

Has anyone watched that sneak peek with Weaver and Victoria in her office?  Victoria is just as bad in terms of acting as Jacinda.  Again, it makes no sense.  How would Victoria know what prescription the "street rat" Alice was on?  Weaver was stupid enough to leave behind evidence that Victoria could use against him?  If she has evidence on him, surely, he has evidence on her.  This whole scenario with corruption is so idiotically unrealistic I can't take it seriously at all.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

28 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This whole scenario with corruption is so idiotically unrealistic I can't take it seriously at all.

It's cringe-worthy. Forget Real Life, do A&E not watch any of the million crime/cop shows out there? lol Such amateur writing!

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

They shot themselves in the foot by giving Henry and Failurealla a child together. Otherwise it would have been much easier to cut their losses. With Robin, it took them two seasons to kill him off, and even then, they brought him back to give Clone Queen a boyfriend. A&E will continue to double down on their mistakes. 

I'm still waiting on Lucy to be revealed as the Pen.

Edited October 27, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[VoicePlaya]

I just watched the sneak peek and I think my eyes almost rolled right out of my head. I can't take Victoria seriously at all. Cringeworthy is the perfect description for that scene.

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm still waiting on Lucy to be revealed as the Pen.

Haahaha. That would be perfect!

[Camera One]

After watching that Sneak Peek, I really take what Matt Mitovich is saying with a gargantuan grain of salt.  The writing is just as bad as the last few episodes.  As for the "so emotional" Rumbelle stuff, I still don't think Rumple deserves a happy ending, so why would I be happy for Belle?  She shouldn't be saddled with him for life.  Despite this episode being Jane Espenson's fav and despite how "fantastic" Matt considers it to be, I think it's just best to watch this show with Underworld level expectations.

[CCTC]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Has anyone watched that sneak peek with Weaver and Victoria in her office?  Victoria is just as bad in terms of acting as Jacinda. 

It was kind of bizarre with strange pauses - I thought for a minute she might have a seizure.  Robert seemed kind of bored, or maybe he just did not how to respond to her acting.

 

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

, I still don't think Rumple deserves a happy ending, so why would I be happy for Belle? 

Yes -- their relationship is a text-book abusive relationship, and Rumple has never really shown true remorse for anything that did not directly affect him.    Belle was at her most interesting when she stood up to him for a few minutes in the beginning of season 6 and when she forced him over the town line whenever that was.  Too bad they always had her go back to him.

[Camera One]

I couldn't tell what the hell Victoria was saying so I watched that Sneak Peek again.

Apparently, she telephoned Alice's doctor and got a bottle of her pills?  Uh, last time I checked, a doctor doesn't give out confidential patient information (even to real estate developers), and you can't pick up some stranger's prescription from the pharmacy either.  What type of "real world" experiences are the Writers basing their scripts on?

Edited October 27, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

If Belle dies of old age, it'll put the "Disney Princesses can't die" to rest. So I guess we have that to possibly look forward to? This show's canon gets weirder every episode.

That Sneak Peek was horrendous. Talk about bad flashbacks of Ingrid/Rumple. The woman playing Victoria did a terrible job of acting in that scene, running through so many words to get out as much exposition as possible in a short amount of time. The writers were trying desperately to recreate the Mayor Mills/Mr. Gold dynamic from S1 and S2, even using some of the same shots. Yet, they failed miserably. Victoria is no Regina, and Weaver is just Rumple in jeans. He's not Mr. Gold by any stretch.

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

(even to real estate developers)

OK- this made me laugh.

[Camera One]

Has anyone watched the second Sneak Peek, this time with Flashback Rumple and Belle?

Despite the warm colors and the music and a familiar race, which got to me a little, I'm not totally feeling it.  It seems like they skipped the actual interesting part - Rumple coming to the realization that he no longer wanted to be The Dark One.  Instead, suddenly, he's ready to be mortal because the last 10 years have been so happy.  I mean, this should have been a character arc for at least a full season.  But now, after a billion flip flops, he claims the dagger has been a "burden to me for so long".  He was a "slave" to its power?  Yeah, tell yourself that.  Are we supposed to believe he just changed overnight?  I find it all a little manipulative, just so we would feel a little sorry for him when he loses this happiness, probably through another last-minute bad decision.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

Wow - that clip just seems contrary to everything we have seen from Rumple the last 6 years, esp. since he duplicity took up the dark mantle again when he had already been with Belle and just spent a lot of time and trouble recovering from a faulty heart from his first stint as the dark one.  The situation seemed as fake for the character as the CGI of the setting.