Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[mjgchick]

In the AU Rumple had Bae2.0 and he was still a jackass which is why I hope Jennifer's comments on not fully trusting Rumple does come back because she and Hook just accepted that Hades threw Milah in the river and he manages to escape Hades? How did those two especially Hook not see he was lying?

I hope they end him and Belle makes Hook and Emma the god parents out of spite tbh.

[YaddaYadda]

I am really looking forward to 5x17 to see how all of this is going to play out.

 

Also, spoiler alert, they're having a boy in case you guys missed it. I'm going for Gaston as first name and Milo as middle name.

[Mathius]

Yeah, James does return, but Charming does not have a centric, sad to say.

[mjgchick]

Gaston Milo would be another low blow on top of Captain Swan as this kids god parents. I really want Belle to just say to hell with Rumple. She can be a single mom and have the baby visit Rumple in a cell he can't get out of.

ETA: Rolling my eyes at Henry. This is why he should've stayed with Belle and them.

Edited March 21, 2016 by mjgchick

[HoodlumSheep]

I find the press release to be rather interesting. For one the first sentence. Did I miss something? It seems weird that Hook and Emma are singled out with the whole "try to return to Storybrooke with Snow, etc." because isn't snow, regina stuck too, or is their situation different? How's snow getting back? The wording seems odd to me.

Also the "Liam makes a surprising visit" and "hades plays the characters against each other".

Hmmmm....

Also...yay! mickey's coming back! I bet he knows about that book!

Edited March 21, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Souris]

So the Apprentice is in the next ep. I guess he's in the UW? I wonder if Henry seeks him out as his solo project?

[Mathius]

Hell yeah!  Despite being written into dumb plots, I really like Timothy Webber's kindly performance as the Apprentice.

[HoodlumSheep]

Hell yeah! Despite being written into dumb plots, I really like Timothy Webber's kindly performance as the Apprentice.

He's one of my favorite side characters. Timothy Webber does a good job.

I wonder if only Henry will run into him because of the author thing. I wouldn't mind Hook and Mickey sharing another scene together.

[Curio]

Henry secretly takes matters into his own hands while the others search for the book.

 

The adventurous search for the murdered pen plot thickens! Sigh...

 

Hmmm, maybe Liam is being forced to do something by Hades.

[Mari]

On another topic . . .

I know there's been quite a bit of speculation that they're killing off Robin. Has that been confirmed anywhere? Because looking at how much interaction they've had with Robin/Regina, I don't know if that makes sense. If they were going to kill off Regina's boyfriend, wouldn't they have some scenes between them showing their affection, so that Regina can be appropriately devastated and possibly vengeful?

[Curio]

If they were going to kill off Regina's boyfriend, wouldn't they have some scenes between them showing their affection, so that Regina can be appropriately devastated and possibly vengeful?

 

I give you Evidence 4B: Emma's big revelation in the season finale was that she wasn't able to tell Hook she loved him. You'd think that would have had some appropriate build-up throughout that half season, but instead we got Emma taking shots with Regina, Emma working on Operation Dumbass 24/7, Emma dealing with the Lily drama, and Emma dealing with her parents' egg baby nonsense. This show isn't particularly good at setting these kinds of things up.

[Serena]

Add to that evidence 3B: Neal was increasingly pointless after his rescue in 3A, and completely absent from 3B until it was time to kill him off. So actually, Robin's supposed death would be following a pattern.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Serena

[scenicbyway]

On another topic . . .

I know there's been quite a bit of speculation that they're killing off Robin. Has that been confirmed anywhere? Because looking at how much interaction they've had with Robin/Regina, I don't know if that makes sense. If they were going to kill off Regina's boyfriend, wouldn't they have some scenes between them showing their affection, so that Regina can be appropriately devastated and possibly vengeful?

While I do think Robin is killed off, simply because Sean is no longer filming or in Vancouver.  I think it's interesting that Snow, Charming, Hook and maybe Zelena probably get sucked through the same door that the Merry Men, Roland and Camelot people have just gone through.  So I suppose it's possible that he's not really dead (the only one who seems to be is Neal and he even comes back occasionally).

 

I agree that the show is bad at payoffs.  CaptainSwan is a prime example of building towards emotional payoffs only to have the torn away at the last moment.  All those hints at engagements and weddings in the first half and then she ends up having to kill him.  Seriously?  So at least they aren't doing that with Regina and Robin only to tear them apart.  There's already a little distance, Robin already has no part to play so when he leaves for good, Regina should recover more quickly than she did with Daniel.  It will be her chance not to take the dark path of revenge this time around.

[scenicbyway]

I find the press release to be rather interesting. For one the first sentence. Did I miss something? It seems weird that Hook and Emma are singled out with the whole "try to return to Storybrooke with Snow, etc." because isn't snow, regina stuck too, or is their situation different? How's snow getting back? The wording seems odd to me.

Also the "Liam makes a surprising visit" and "hades plays the characters against each other".

Hmmmm....

Also...yay! mickey's coming back! I bet he knows about that book!

 

Here's the thing, everyone is in the Underworld with "unfinished business" and presumably who they have that business with shows up eventually, otherwise they are stuck.  So, it's in Hades best interest to keep those people separated.  Liam and Killian would likely not meet up down there because Hades would keep them apart.  Hades steals the hope away so people aren't even trying to look for each other so they can move on.  So I think that's why Liam's visit is "surprising."  I also wouldn't be surprised if Hades wants Killian to move on, now that he's got Emma, Regina and Snow trapped.  He'd want to take Emma's hope away and Killian is the whole reason she's there.  I look for there to be conflict with Snow and Charming too.  I think a boat will become available and she'll push Charming to get on it to get back to Neal.  Regina and Snow will be pushing Charming, Robin and Henry to get out before their names end up on a stone too.

[Mari]

All of the payoff commentary is true, but that was Emma-centered, mostly. She usually doesn't get emotional payoff scenes.

We see every single time Regina's feelings might be the littlest bit slighted. We spent how many episodes focused on Regina's overwhelming sadness because she wasn't allowed (in the past) to kill the wife of her boyfriend of a few days? Most of Regina's interaction with others (until the last few episodes, where she is absurdly everyone's motivational speaker) boils down to snarky insults, threats, or tears of ultimate victimhood.

Would they really pass up the opportunity to drama Regina's life up? Considering that they've set so many stories aside so that they could tell her story?

Edited March 21, 2016 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

Unless Sean Maguire wanted off half way through the season, and the writers didn't have the time/interest to do a rewrite to give him a better sendoff.

[InsertWordHere]

Robin Hood is following the similar pattern of the writers not writing for Ruby, not writing for Will, and whatever they were attempting to write for Neal. On most shows, you would think they would amp up a character a little before writing them off, but yeah, I could buy that they stopped writing for him and so he asked to be let go or opted not to renew his contract, similar to the Meghan Ory situation. 

[KingOfHearts]

So the Apprentice is in the next ep. I guess he's in the UW? I wonder if Henry seeks him out as his solo project?

Or he's an Obi Wan ghost.

"No, Henry! Don't use the pen! You can't give into the dark side!"

Edited March 21, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

Unless Sean Maguire wanted off half way through the season, and the writers didn't have the time/interest to do a rewrite to give him a better sendoff.

The puzzling thing is, it's not like he had another project lined up, so why wouldn't he finish the season out?  He stopped filming at the beginning of March, why would filming til April 1 have been out of the question?

 

I doubt it's a situation of the actor wanting out, it's more likely the writers talked with him about a Robin exit, probably something that had been in the works since last season but they didn't know when to carry it out and now is the time.  Perhaps he was only signed to a one year regular contract.

[CheshireCat]

scenicbyway, on 21 Mar 2016 - 3:43 PM, said:scenicbyway, on 21 Mar 2016 - 3:43 PM, said:

The puzzling thing is, it's not like he had another project lined up, so why wouldn't he finish the season out?  He stopped filming at the beginning of March, why would filming til April 1 have been out of the question?

 

I doubt it's a situation of the actor wanting out, it's more likely the writers talked with him about a Robin exit, probably something that had been in the works since last season but they didn't know when to carry it out and now is the time.  Perhaps he was only signed to a one year regular contract.

 

Since the show is already in its 5th season, I would assume both he and Mader signed for a year only. But now that we more or less know he's the one who dies, there are things which happened during the first half of the show which could be considered as signs which point to an exit that was planned all along.

 

Wasn't there supposed to be an Hook-Robin episode coming up?

Edited March 21, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Souris]

So, it looks like Liam is a bartender & Hades comes to see him. Then Liam shows up at Emma's house, which contains her entire baby nursery, even the tree, and where she's just healed Hook & they've been having a serious conversation. And Cruella drives Henry to see the Apprentice.

[SiobhanJW]

So, it looks like Liam is a bartender & Hades comes to see him. Then Liam shows up at Emma's house, which contains her entire baby nursery, even the tree, and where she's just healed Hook & they've been having a serious conversation. And Cruella drives Henry to see the Apprentice.

Looks like Liam has been given some sort of task from Hades to tear the two apart. Interesting. 

[ABitOFluff]

Ok, first the nursery now all the baby toys in the kitchen. Whaaaaat?

 

It looks like babies are going to be a big theme, at least in the second half of the arc. In fact, was Hades still holding Rumple's contract in some of the BTS pictures of Firebird?

 

As for the sneak peek: oh look, Charming has something to do. Of course, Cruella is getting it on with James!

Edited March 21, 2016 by ABitOFluff

[Rumsy4]

Looks like Cruella got with the other Sherif Chiseled Chin. ;-)

 

Aaaa..... Liam and Killian and Emma!!

 

What's with all the creepy toys in the kitchen?

 

Shut up and sit down, Henry. 

[CheshireCat]

So, are we to assume that since the horse and the pen had/have unfinished business, Emma's nursery does, too, since it was destroyed by the fire Emma set? But wasn't the unicorn mobile in Gold's shop at one point? So, how come it ended up in the Underworld? The crib, I get. It was never used (so does it have unfinished business with Emma, Regina or Snow or the three of them?) but the tree? Why does the tree have unfinished business? After all, it was used exactly for what it was meant to be used for, right? And does that mean we can expect the tree to be used?

Edited March 21, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Souris]

Emma & Hook's condoms must be down there, too, since they clearly have unfinished business.

[mjgchick]

Emma's crib should be Snow and Regina's right? Snow because she never had the chance to raise her daughter in it and Regina hopefully actually apologizing for being a raging asshole all those yrs ago. And she better not say some mess about Snow finding Emma because it was the other way around.

Hook and all that jelly on his jacket is killing me. lol

Emma has not smiled in a while that I forgot Jennifer had dimples. Captain Swans babies are gonna have dimples at least and maybe that chin.

Also, does that crib mean Hooks hit that?

Edited March 21, 2016 by mjgchick

[HoodlumSheep]

Noooo!!! My heart. So it looks like Hades is making Liam cause trouble after all? Or makes a threat or puts an idea in his head?

And Liam as a bartender...the same as his father was the last time we saw Papa Hook. Did they do that intentionally?

And the house filled with baby stuff is just plain weirding me out at this point.

Lol @ that sneak peek. Love you Cruella.

Edited March 21, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Sarcastica]

I am all in for Cruella and James. Chug some gin and get it gurl.

So Hades is gonna be messing with Liam. Boo

 

Cruella & James 4Evah

Edited March 21, 2016 by Sarcastica

[ABitOFluff]

I am all in for Cruella and James. Chug some gin and get it gurl.

 

 

Cruella & James 4Evah

Dahlings, I'd like you to meet my boo, Sheriff Chisled Chin's brother,  Evil Sheriff Chisled Chin.

[RadioGirl27]

So Liam is a bartender, just like Brennan was when Killian killed him. I don't think that's unintentional.

 

And lol at Cruella and James. We need a ship name for them :-)

[Rumsy4]

And lol at Cruella and James. We need a ship name for them :-)

How about Twin Devil or Cruel Twin? :-p

[mjgchick]

Snow and David are even and I guess Snow tells David, James had kissed her off screen?

Get it Cruella. Does this mean James js cheating on Jack?

[Curio]

So, are we to assume that since the horse and the pen had/have unfinished business, Emma's nursery does, too, since it was destroyed by the fire Emma set?

I think the decorations are just decorations, kind of like the framed photo of Snow and David in the loft. I doubt the photo has unfinished business.

 

I can already tell I'm going to love this episode. And I have to laugh at Charming and Cruella rounding more bases on screen than Emma and Hook have.

Emma & Hook's condoms must be down there, too, since they clearly have unfinished business.

Okay, this actually made me snort out loud. Ha.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Curio

[Souris]

Spotted Dimples is my fave for the Cruella and James ship. Or Devil Dimples. Or Devil Twin.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Souris

[CheshireCat]

Curio, on 21 Mar 2016 - 7:43 PM, said:

I think the decorations are just decorations, kind of like the framed photo of Snow and David in the loft. I doubt the photo has unfinished business.

 

 

On the other hand, their entire furniture seems to be there, covered as if in an abandoned building whereas Emma didn't really decorate with her nursery furniture or used it as her furniture and it was destroyed. Just like the pen was.

[scenicbyway]

Why were there so many bears in Emma's nursery? There are a crazy amount in the kitchen!

It's nice to see Hook and Emma finally in their home together for a quiet moment while she heals him.

I love that Liam's a bartender. I doubt that Hades has to do much scheming there. Telling him Killian's in town at the home of his murderer princess girlfriend should be enough.

Finally some good pictures and a fun sneak peek.

[KingOfHearts]

Charming makes a sexist remark about James kissing Snow, then he proceeds to kiss Cruella. Great.

Also, it's crazy how much the writers are acknowledging Emma's parental/childhood issues are her unfinished business with all the toys.

Edited March 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

I think the decorations are just decorations, kind of like the framed photo of Snow and David in the loft. I doubt the photo has unfinished business.

 

I think the decorations are the embodiment of Emma's unfinished business.  The crib.  The tree that sent her away as a baby.  The toys she didn't have as a child.  All in the house that Hook found for her.  I'm pretty sure that there is even a figurine of Disney Snow White in the kitchen.

 

That or the writers are trolling us so we'll say 'really all these things right in front of their faces and the Charmings still can't have an actual conversation about their family stuff and the past.  Really?"

Edited March 22, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[mjgchick]

Good lord I hope the Charmings and Emma FINALLY have that conversation. Snow and Emma kind of had one in S2 in EF but she needs one with both Charming and Snow. Since its in Hook and Emma's place it must come up at least once right? Or are we asking for to much?

[ParadoxLost]

With Zelena having a lot of scenes with Hades, I wonder if they are going to loophole Rumple's agreement and sub in Zelena via Runple's agreement with Cora as a substitute for a biological child.

[Rumsy4]

I think the decorations are the embodiment of Emma's unfinished business.  The crib.  The tree that sent her away as a baby.  The toys she didn't have as a child.  All in the house that Hook found for her.  I'm pretty sure that there is even a figurine of Disney Snow White in the kitchen.

 

It represents Emma's abandonment issues. Emma is the problem!!! Always!!!11

 

Good lord I hope the Charmings and Emma FINALLY have that conversation. ... Or are we asking for to much?

 

Sadly, more than likely we are asking for too much. 

[Dianthus]

I was thinking we were gonna see Emma catch even more shade for being selfish with Hook, so I'm glad to hear that Hades might be making him do it. It kinda makes sense, though, if Liam does have an issue with someone for going against Killian's express wishes on more than one occasion.

Oddly, now I wanna see a throw down between Liam and Charmz:

"That's my daughter you're talking about!"

"Look how my little brother's suffered thanks to her!"

[InsertWordHere]

I ship Twin Devils so much. I just want those two kids to be happy!

 

I hope someone else is encountering James while this is going on. With my luck it will be Henry, who's off on his little adventure. He would totally fall for the evil twin trick, although in his defense, I don't think anyone has bothered to warn him about his great-uncle. 

[Katherine]

Do we know if Rachel Shelley has been spotted in Vancouver since 5x14? The more I think about it, the more frustrated I am that Hook and Milah never interacted. Hook spent hundreds of years seeking revenge for Milah's murder, yet when he finds out Milah's soul has been lost forever, we barely get to see him react? I refuse to accept that.

[Curio]

Seriously. If Regina gets to say goodbye to a fucking horse, Hook deserves to get to say goodbye to Milah properly. Also, Henry should be able to see his grandmother since he got to meet Henry Sr.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Something that struck me in the episode description in the press release:

the bond between the two young Jones brothers is tested and strengthened on a merchant ship heading into a dangerous storm

That makes it sound like this is before they were in the Navy if they're on a merchant ship -- perhaps this is the origin story of how they ended up in the Navy, based on what happens to them here? If so, then given that they're using the adult actors, they must have risen quickly through the ranks. For his timeline to work out at all, Killian would have to be a teenager before he was in the Navy.

 

From the promo pics, it looks like when Emma heals him, she resets him to "Storybrooke Hook" rather than Dark One Hook. His jacket and jewelry go back to normal, and the earring goes from dangling to being that small stud.

 

I'm rather impressed that her sweater is still pristine and white after she hugged him and was half carrying him while he was soaked in blood.

[Mathius]

Do we know if Rachel Shelley has been spotted in Vancouver since 5x14? The more I think about it, the more frustrated I am that Hook and Milah never interacted. Hook spent hundreds of years seeking revenge for Milah's murder, yet when he finds out Milah's soul has been lost forever, we barely get to see him react? I refuse to accept that.

 

When she came on, it was said that she'd be "in at least one episode", meaning another appearance is possible, however it would likely be filmed against a greenscreen and not needed to be done in Vancouver, and somehow I doubt it would involve her and Hook interacting, just her among other souls being freed. 

[mjgchick]

Hooks jacket looked like the jacket he's always worm in Storybrook to me. Its his jewelry that was the same as his dark ones.

I'm really annoyed that Henry thinks its a good idea to bring Cruella back because he thinks his mom is a murderer and not you know someone who saved his ass.

[CheshireCat]

mjgchick, on 22 Mar 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

Hooks jacket looked like the jacket he's always worm in Storybrook to me. Its his jewelry that was the same as his dark ones.

I'm really annoyed that Henry thinks its a good idea to bring Cruella back because he thinks his mom is a murderer and not you know someone who saved his ass.

 

I agree. I kind of expected more from Henry, like to tell Cruella to go to... well... hell... He's seen first-hand what happens when the power of the quill is abused. It's why he broke it in the first place. (And considering that the Apprentice applauded his actions, one as to wonder why the quill does have unfinished business... )

 

As far as Emma's toys are concerned - didn't she accept being an orphan in S3 and wouldn't that mean she made peace with it? So why does she suddenly have unfinished business about that? (I know, I know, because the writers say so... But still, I gotta have to ask ;-))