Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

And that's probably how Robin knew about the wand when he needed to save Marian's life back when he loved her and all.  I guess Robin went to Rumple to tell him that he had failed at his mission, that's the only place the scene might fit.  

 

I noticed that a few scenes might have been cut from last week especially from the BTS we got.  I know the scene with Snow crouching and looking at tracks did not make it on screen.

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, it seems they cut a lot of scenes. There was also a scene with Emma, Hook and Henry that it's missing from the episode. I guess that Robin being stupid and Zelena monologuing were more important.

Edited April 18, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

https://twitter.com/OnceABC/status/589516253523533824

 

Teaser gif showing Cruella putting on a dalmatian coat in flashbacks.

[YaddaYadda]

Cruella looks all kinds of righteous.  The coat, the 20's get up.  I'm very much looking forward to her.  Cruella, it's been good knowing ya.

[FurryFury]

Let's hope she goes out on top. You know, transforms Henry into a dalmatian, or something (not that it would be much of a change, but still).

[OnceUponAJen]

I love the 1920s fashion, so I'm going to love this!

[BoPeeps]

Cruella wearing a Dalmatian coat?

Well, that's just fucked.

 

First they take all the smolder and spark out of Hook so that he is just trotted into a backdrop scene for a non-dialogue, watered down eye candy (non)fix, then David dives headfirst into the mediocre bin, Snow turns into a bitch-princess wacko, Maleficent, a once tremendously powerful villain is shown to be easily defeated, wimpy and sappy, Ursula is retread-Ariel having nothing to do with the actual Ursula of terrifying sea powers, the author is a smarmy little weasel shit, Rumple is so confused he loses his accent in a flashback scene, Robin Hood proves himself to be an even worse dick-brained spooge, Zelena the snarling Wonder Witch has lost every marble she never had and is still chomping the set design to pieces, and Emma has disappeared into unfocused angst.

 

Now, Cruella is putting on a Dalmatian coat.

Totally fucked.

[maryle]

Its really funny people said Hook or CS will drowning the show but when I look at the real screen time, rating and spoiler it seems that

1 turning The Evil Queen as a soapy character and OQ

2 totally forget the clan Charming as unit and problem solver . Worse they become Shadow of their season one counterpart.

3

Use of Emma (the lead) and Cs as tease in promotion but without really gave Emma a real meaty storyline .

[MaiLuna]

I haven't seen this spoiler banner for tomorrow's episode posted. I know almost nobody cares about Rumbelle here, but there you go anyway.

[retrograde]

(I don't think this has been posted yet?) TV Guide's finale preview:

 

Can The Author grant the villains a happy ending? That question will be answered in what co-creator Edward Kitsis calls a "two-hour concept episode" that will include pretty much everybody in Storybrooke. Also, Emma and Hook's relationship will be explored further, and it will become clear where Regina and Robin Hood stand. But where is our horned friend Maleficent in all this? Hoping for a reunion with her long-lost daughter Lily, who will make an appearance as well. By the end of the two hours, one person will be gone forever (as much as they can be on this show), and everyone will be left this season with a big "change in condition" that will carry over into next season.

 

Edited April 19, 2015 by retrograde

[Serena]

Uh, well, I'm happy about the confirmation about CS being explored, but who knows what that means with this show?

[RadioGirl27]

 

Can The Author grant the villains a happy ending? That question will be answered in what co-creator Edward Kitsis calls a "two-hour concept episode" that will include pretty much everybody in Storybrooke. Also, Emma and Hook's relationship will be explored further, and it will become clear where Regina and Robin Hood stand. But where is our horned friend Maleficent in all this? Hoping for a reunion with her long-lost daughter Lily, who will make an appearance as well. By the end of the two hours, one person will be gone forever (as much as they can be on this show), and everyone will be left this season with a big "change in condition" that will carry over into next season.

I don't like the sound of any of this. "Concept episode" sounds like they are trying to be original and, with this writers, we know what that means, a lot of crap that makes no sense at all. And I fear the "change in condition".

And I think we (and the characters) are going to be left thinking Emma is gone forever, but she would reappear in season 5 premiere. That or they are going to kill  Rumple. I hope it's the second, but I'm getting ready for the first one.

 

Uh, well, I'm happy about the confirmation about CS being explored, but who knows what that means with this show?

That means they would share a couple of scenes in the finale, and maybe, big maybe, there would be an ILY before Emma sacrifices herself. 

[FurryFury]

I think concept episode means something in the vein of 3B finale, and I don't mind, anything would be better than the current storyline.

[myril]

CS explored further, aha. Now I picture the episode starting with a scene of Emma and Hook on the ship, in the morning, waking up together, a long kiss, a loving intense look into each other's eyes, Hook saying "I love you", Emma answering "I love you too", and then her mobile phone rings and she's called for Sheriff's duty probably by Major Regina Mills. And I see them not having much of a moment together again before the angsty Emma sacrifice moment to the end of the 2 hours.

Edited April 19, 2015 by myril

[Selina K]

I read the 'it will be clear where Regina and Robin Hod stand' as they get the ILY and the 'explore' CS as they will admit they are thinking about maybe they kind of sort of like each oth ... oh wait look, dagger might threaten Regina's happy ending cya bye!

[YaddaYadda]

Where Regina and Robin stand should be where Emma started in 4A, feeling guilty that she inadvertently "destroyed" Regina's relationship by bringing Marian to SB.  You know, Emma feeling bad and freezing Hook out until she had her near death experience in the ice cave.

 

If Regina has any self-awareness, she might consider that this whole thing that's happening with the Author, them ending up in some sort of AU and Emma possibly going poof is really because everyone (Emma) was bending over backwards to give her her happy ending.  

 

I haven't got a clue what they mean when they say "exploring CS".  My brain goes in all kinds of places, but since this is the one relationship on the show that they haven't tried to fuck up...

 

I'm guessing the Author is the one who is gone forever.

[sharky]

One person who will be gone forever will be Emma -- there's a reason they put a note in after about as "dead" as can be on this show.

 

If Regina has any self-awareness, she might consider that this whole thing that's happening with the Author, them ending up in some sort of AU and Emma possibly going poof is really because everyone (Emma) was bending over backwards to give her her happy ending.

I actually like this idea. If she doesn't have self awareness about it, I can at least see Hook going full force after her and calling her out on it. He, like her, is a villain who finally found his happy ending and somehow she's the reason it's gone now. Something like "Emma worked so hard to give you your happy ending. You better work your ass off to get her happy ending for her." Of course, that would really mean Hook needs his happy ending back. And let's be honest, based on the character assassination of Snowing, it's going to have to be Hook that steps up and not Emma's parents.

 

Or hell, as much as I hate to say it, maybe it's time for Henry to call Regina out and tell her that she needs to get Emma back for him too. Of course, this could also lead to Henry being a fucking idiot and trying to find a solution himself and hey! Jafar! Leaked script pages! Woo! Seriously, it would at least make sense. My mom once said the dumbest people on the planet are teenage boys and Henry is pretty close to being one now.

[YaddaYadda]

If she doesn't have self awareness about it, I can at least see Hook going full force after her and calling her out on it. He, like her, is a villain who finally found his happy ending and somehow she's the reason it's gone now. Something like "Emma worked so hard to give you your happy ending. You better work your ass off to get her happy ending for her." Of course, that would really mean Hook needs his happy ending back. And let's be honest, based on the character assassination of Snowing, it's going to have to be Hook that steps up and not Emma's parents.

 

This is what's sort of interesting with Hook.  He seems to have accepted (if we are to believe) the "rules" of the book (at the very least they haven't let him have further POV than what he said in 415), that he is/was a villain and that he will eventually lose his happy ending.  In 408, in that voice mail he left Emma (you know the one that was never mentioned again), he said that he hoped she never forgave him because it means she managed to save herself.  He'd rather she's alive somewhere than just completely gone.  

 

Hook is very a much a no nonsense character who doesn't care for magic all that much and I could see him call Regina out for messing with things she didn't understand or that were beyond her.  I don't know if the writing will let him though.  It should, Hook and Regina speak the same language and they understand each other and the constant struggle.  Those two haven't had a conversation since 301.  There has to be a reason for that.

 

The BTS from 421/422 with Emma holding the dagger, Hook is very much at the center of that and Snowing are looking at him.  I don't know if they're hoping he'll manage to stop Emma from whatever it is she's doing.  I get the impression that the relationship between Emma and her parents is still on the rocks.

 

ETA - 

So both JMo and Colin promoted tonight's show.  JMo re-posted a bunch of links and clips about tonight's episode and Colin said that tonight will be epic.  I don't know if it will be epic, but I tend to trust their judgement.  The last episode JMo tweeted about was Poor Unfortunate Soul which I thought was the best one so far in this half-season.

Edited April 19, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

Or hell, as much as I hate to say it, maybe it's time for Henry to call Regina out and tell her that she needs to get Emma back for him too.

I'm hoping against hope that we are going to see Henry blaming Regina for Emma's sacrifice and that it would lead to some bonding with Hook. The same way Hook offered Bae to be his family, I can see him taking care of Henry. The kid is both Milah's grandson and Emma's son, the only thing left from the women he loves.

 

I read the 'it will be clear where Regina and Robin Hod stand' as they get the ILY and the 'explore' CS as they will admit they are thinking about maybe they kind of sort of like each oth ... oh wait look, dagger might threaten Regina's happy ending cya bye!

The only reason why I think that maybe there is an ILY between Hook and Emma is that it would make Emma's sacrifice more painful.

 

ETA -

So both JMo and Colin promoted tonight's show.  JMo re-posted a bunch of links and clips about tonight's episode and Colin said that tonight will be epic.  I don't know if it will be epic, but I tend to trust their judgement.  The last episode JMo tweeted about was Poor Unfortunate Soul which I thought was the best one so far in this half-season.

Colin also promoted last week episode, and we all know how that turned out to be. He probably just did it because Victoria Smurfit is Irish, the same way he promoted the previous one because Sean is his friend.

Edited April 19, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[OnceUponAJen]

I am definitely not ready for the hiatus. But....bring on the angst if we must have it. Hopefully, Emma will be returned shortly and maybe we'll get an epic Nevengers adventure out of it.

Those finale spoiler pics definitely look like an ILY may be coming. Where are my tissues? Emma cries, I cry.

Edited April 19, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[KingOfHearts]

I haven't seen this spoiler banner for tomorrow's episode posted. I know almost nobody cares about Rumbelle here, but there you go anyway.

Makes me want to gag. I can only hope it's part of the ruse to blackmail Rumple.

[Bluerang1]

The kid is both Milah's grandson and Emma's son, the only thing left from the women he loves.

 

That's seriousy creepy. This show.

 

"Ivolving everyone in Storybrooke" hopefully means a Ruby appearance. *wishful thinking*. Perhaps the change in condition is a trip back to the Enchanted Forest. I wonder who the next big bad will be if there will be one. It seems like the Author will be the focus point of 5A. And then where does Will come into play?

[daxx]

 

"Ivolving everyone in Storybrooke" hopefully means a Ruby appearance. *wishful thinking*. Perhaps the change in condition is a trip back to the Enchanted Forest. I wonder who the next big bad will be if there will be one. It seems like the Author will be the focus point of 5A. And then where does Will come into play?

Oh, no! I just had a terrible thought. What if Emma is removed from existence ala Fringe and they don't remember her ever existing and she will be wherever she is fighting to get back to them. Then they don't remember her when she does make it back. Has to get Hook to fall in love, which should be easy frankly, then TLK brings back the memories of her for everyone.

Was there a scene of the others reacting to her being gone once she was all the way gone in the BTS spoilers?

[FurryFury]

God I've hated that season of Fringe so much I've stopped watching (especially when they've killed altLincoln, on of my fave characters and a part of my fav ship). Although I don't object to it on principle, I'm not sure it warrants a half-season. I'd watch an episode or two of that and then want to get everything back.

Edited April 19, 2015 by FurryFury

[Rumsy4]

What if Emma is removed from existence ala Fringe and they don't remember her ever existing and she will be wherever she is fighting to get back to them. Then they don't remember her when she does make it back. 

 

That was literally the worst thing that happened to Fringe, and it never recovered from it, IMO. Thankfully, I doubt they would permanently alter things like that in OUAT--the disappearance of Storybrooke from Going Home barely even lasted one episode.

 

 

Was there a scene of the others reacting to her being gone once she was all the way gone in the BTS spoilers?

 

IIRC, the bts pics showed Hook staring forlornly at the spot where Emma had disappeared. So, I'm guessing they all remember. It is important they do for Hook to immediately take off on a quest to find Emma on the Jolly Roger (with people tripping over portals everywhere, it ought to be easy to find one). 

[daxx]

I hope they remember, that would be the worst.

[Souris]

Uh, well, I'm happy about the confirmation about CS being explored, but who knows what that means with this show?

 

Come on, we know what it means on this show. They'll share a sentence or two.

 

So both JMo and Colin promoted tonight's show.  JMo re-posted a bunch of links and clips about tonight's episode and Colin said that tonight will be epic.  I don't know if it will be epic, but I tend to trust their judgement.  The last episode JMo tweeted about was Poor Unfortunate Soul which I thought was the best one so far in this half-season.

 

Bless Colin's heart, he also said last week's was a great one. He's a loyal soldier, especially if it's about a friend.

 

Nobody is going to call out Regina or blame her for what happens to Emma (which makes the THIRD time Snowing have lost their daughter because of Regina), because that's simply not allowed on this show. Or if by some miracle somebody actually does, it will be presented as they're in the wrong and poor Regina being blamed for something that's her fault, now please eat her lasagna. I'd fall down in a faint if they ever started having characters react realistically to Regina.

[YaddaYadda]

Bless Colin's heart, he also said last week's was a great one. He's a loyal soldier, especially if it's about a friend.

 

He did mention Cruella's backstory in one of his interviews before 415.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

Oh, no! I just had a terrible thought. What if Emma is removed from existence ala Fringe and they don't remember her ever existing and she will be wherever she is fighting to get back to them. Then they don't remember her when she does make it back. Has to get Hook to fall in love, which should be easy frankly, then TLK brings back the memories of her for everyone.

I've wanted this to happen, but with a curse. Everyone would not recognize her because they would all have fake memories, Henry, Hook and Regina included.

Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[BoPeeps]

Not all that interested unfortunately. A&E have done a fine job of systematically destroying my joy level with the show. Ultimately it is my own choice to be disappointed in the story they tell and I can always click the remote, but it is sad all the same.

"Explore further" means squat with these guys. We have heard that term for too long (about any character) and for this couple it usually means a few seconds of repetitive, Angst riddled lines tossed in to appease the CS faction but has absolutely nothing to do with exploring anything deeper or more specifically fun with Hook and Emma. Deja Vu all over again (snork) Their sexy and sassy relationship that was so well addressed leading up to the second half has been sanitized and squandered to the point of predictable mediocrity. They have dumbed them both down and in the process assumed the fans of the once smolderingly interesting couple are shallow and stupid, too.

Where do Robin and Regina stand? In a puddle of muddied and distasteful muck. In spite of the appeal of the actors, they have given us a decidedly tawdry "love story". Any ending where she ends up with that spineless slug is gag worthy.

Someone gone forever? Please. Quit insulting us. Just STOP.

Concept episode? No one knows WTF that means, least of all the Writers.

Condition change? This happens every.single.episode.

Am I somewhat bitter?

Yeah.

They have screwed around and pretty much messed everything to the point of causing a loyal and fun loving fan (moi'!) to be suffering from severe eye rolling strain and worse...series boredom.

When a show loses the ability to tell its story ON SCREEN and litters what IS on screen with massive amounts of disingenuous plot hoohaa and personality-shifting characters who have lost any rational kind of definition, they are in a creative Hell hole.

I hope for the sake of my love of quirky fantasy adventure that they wise up and pull themselves out of that hole. I want the intelligent wit and fun back.

Grumble grumble grumble. Damn it. Grrrrr.

[FurryFury]

I've just had a thought - the only way the show can not lose me after everything is either going into a fairytale/story I really care about (Aladdin, Camelot,Fairy mythology) or just getting rid off Robin. I never thought I'd hate anyone more than Neal, but Robin is just the worst. What do you think, how likely is Sean joining the main cast next year? I put it at 80%, but I still wanna hope it won't happen.

Edited April 19, 2015 by FurryFury

[Souris]

I'm afraid I think you're out of luck on the Robin front, FurryFury. I'm almost certain he'll be a regular next season.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm afraid I think you're out of luck on the Robin front, FurryFury. I'm almost certain he'll be a regular next season.

Wouldn't be surprised if the 5A finale included an Outlaw Queen wedding.

[FurryFury]

Ugh. I mean, I understand it logically... But it's SO BAD! Also, why the hell didn't they include Sean as a main in s4? At that time, I've thought it was a good sign.

God, I think that I'm just looking for signs to not drop this show. I guess i'll check out the next ep because Cruella's kinda fun, and then the finale because it may be different... But otherwise, I guess it's the end. The only other show I've seen that has dropped the ball as much as Once is Glee, and I could only handle it by binge-watching when it was over while spoiled about major outcomes.

[HoodlumSheep]

Having finally caught up (I finally watched the last 3 eps!), I'm gonna take a guess and say the heart elixir stuff is gonna be used on Ms. Total Darkness Lily, if there's any left. I don't think they made it clear if it was completely used up by Rumple/Zelena/whoever. Or that episode was too confusing, and that stuff flew over my head.

I'm sure people have guessed this 10 pages back, but I haven't been following the spoilers as closely since I've been behind on watching the episodes.

Oh well.

[Souris]

Interview with Josh.

 

The series has a nice habit of teasing the next big bad. Will that be the case here, too?

Yes, absolutely. It’s a big reveal. The new big baddie is going to be really bad. It’s the unimaginable. It’s the worst thing that could possibly happen. It’s going to be tough for everybody. It’s going to be distressing for fans.

 

So I guess Emma is the Big Bad for S5. I am not here for this. You know it's only to show Emma could be even more evil than Regina, so we can't hold Regina to her crimes. And, of course, Regina will be the one to bring Emma back from darkness, because she's learned and changed so much and is the only one who can understand what Emma is going through. All hail St. Regina!

 

I think I'm done. That sounds like the straw that will break this camel's back.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

 

So I guess Emma is the Big Bad for S5.

Not sure how they're going to do this and keep it, well, Once-villain-ish. It seems like she would have to be some iconic villain like Morgana to make it marketable. I can imagine it train wrecking really, really bad though. It's becoming apparent we're all going to need that live chat for support during the finale.

Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

If Emma is revealed as the big bad, then she can't also be the person that is "gone forever" right?

[Souris]

Unless that means the Emma we know & love is gone forever.

[YaddaYadda]

The series has a nice habit of teasing the next big bad. Will that be the case here, too?

Yes, absolutely. It’s a big reveal. The new big baddie is going to be really bad. It’s the unimaginable. It’s the worst thing that could possibly happen. It’s going to be tough for everybody. It’s going to be distressing for fans.

 

My heart!

 

And, of course, Regina will be the one to bring Emma back from darkness, because she's learned and changed so much and is the only one who can understand what Emma is going through.

How?  Is she going to TLK her?

 

If this has to do with the dagger and Emma absorbing its power, we know how that will end.  

[Rumsy4]

I do think Emma's going to be the next "Big Bad". Maybe the last shot of the season will show Emma in some distant realm, having become the new Dark One. It's a little too early to be negative about S5, even though it's TS TW.

 

S5A may end with Hook breaking Emma's Dark One's Curse via TLK. That would be poetic, considering Hook's centuries-long quest to defeat the Dark One, and the Rumbelle's failed TLK. Hook is kinda anti-parallel to Rumple, so it could narratively make sense if they go that route.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Rumsy4

[retrograde]

On the one hand, I don't really want a whole half-season without the character of Emma (as we know her). On the other hand, I'd kind of love to see an evil doesn't-give-a-f Emma finally call all the other characters out on their bullshit -- especially her parents and Regina. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

And, of course, Regina will be the one to bring Emma back from darkness

 

S5A may end with Hook breaking Emma's Dark One's Curse via TLK.

This sort of makes the end twist "meh" since we all know they're not going to let her be evil or gone forever. Not that I would want that, but on the other hand I'm tired of consequences not lasting long-term. It's like the big goodbye at the end of Going Home or The Fall. It doesn't have as much weight because we know it'll be resolved. (Well, we didn't in 3A, but 3B was when everything became ridiculously book-ended)

Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

How?  Is she going to TLK her?

 

It's Regina. She can do anything! Probably with the pure light magic of the hangnail on her little toe.

 

I assume she will talk to her about her life and feelings and will eventually break through Emma's evil with the power of her words, getting Emma to choose light. Or some such Regina nonsense.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

The good thing about a potentially bad Emma is that the show might actually re-focus on the core characters.  It means they don't have to bring in some new villain and tell us their sob story.  

[FurryFury]

It's becoming apparent we're all going to need that live chat for support during the finale.

 

I really hate live chats. Living in another time zone (Once airs when it's about 4 or 5 AM here) and often having to wait for subtitles to watch the show really puts a damper on it (I mean, I can understand most of the cast just fine, but when it comes to characters like Cruella, oh boy).

 

On the other hand, I'd kind of love to see an evil doesn't-give-a-f Emma finally call all the other characters out on their bullshit -- especially her parents and Regina.

 

This will only be used to contrast new and improved Regina with Evil!Emma, and we will be supposed to root for Regina. No thanks.

[Mari]

Even if Emma is intended to be next season's villain, doesn't mean it's actually going to work out that way.  This season seems to be tanking--everybody seems to hate it, to the point where not even A&E can completely ignore it.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to get what we want next season, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if their  summer planning meeting is a bit panicky, with all sorts of unexpected changes.

[retrograde]

I'm still wondering if the person who will be "gone" is actually Rumple. I just don't know what they're going to do with that character after this season.

[YaddaYadda]

This will only be used to contrast new and improved Regina with Evil!Emma, and we will be supposed to root for Regina. No thanks.

 

I know we tend to look at things through Regina colored perma-boner glasses, but is this really the point of turning Emma evil?  She sacrifices herself for the people she loves and the town and fulfills her Savior role.  Every good person on every show has walked on the dark side.  

 

Emma is all light magic, so I'm guessing there will be some kind of fight for her very soul (I know how I sound).

[Souris]

I can't decide whether I think they're stressed and worried about how 4B is going, or they honestly think everything is hunky-dory with the show. In any case, panicky decisions never result in anything good.