Approach The Bench: Law & Order General Discussion Thread

[Xeliou66]

I love Briscoe, my favorite detective, a lot of depth to his character. That’s why I would’ve liked to have seen Briscoe interact with Daniels, I don’t think he would’ve had near as much sympathy as Green did. I thought it was OOC how much sympathy Green showed Daniels, he never showed sympathy for dirty cops in any other episodes, and I thought it was absurd that no one pointed out to Daniels that by framing Grimes he prevented the real murderer from being caught.

[cfinboston]

On 9/24/2018 at 5:56 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I love Briscoe, my favorite detective, a lot of depth to his character. That’s why I would’ve liked to have seen Briscoe interact with Daniels, I don’t think he would’ve had near as much sympathy as Green did. I thought it was OOC how much sympathy Green showed Daniels, he never showed sympathy for dirty cops in any other episodes, and I thought it was absurd that no one pointed out to Daniels that by framing Grimes he prevented the real murderer from being caught.

Wasn't it that Green and Daniels had previously worked together? Green mentions them having been in the same precinct and Daniels says something about not having heard from Green for a ling time. Having Briscoe there may have made it seem more like an interrogation,   rather than just a talk. Daniels IMO comes off as sympathetic and has the complexity the fans appreciate. It's not all black and white. Green says beforehand how much "by the book" Daniels had been, so it shows how deeply affected he was that his mistake cost justice for Julie Sayer.  

[KHenry14]

Every now and then an EP shows up and it really bothers me. S10 E1 Gunshow  is one of these. This is the ep where McCoy goes after the gun manufacturer Rolph for making a weapon that is too easily converted into an automatic machine pistol. Trial goes all the way to the end and McCoy gets his conviction, only to have the judge issue an directed verdict of not guilty. My issue is that it makes no sense to have a trial and a verdict only to overrule it. If that was going to happen it would have happened after their case's in chief were done, not after a verdict. But that wouldn't make for as good TV I guess. Just imagine if you were a juror, you'd want to know why the judge wasted your time

This EP just sticks in my craw because of this procedure.

[Charlesman]

6 hours ago, KHenry14 said:

Every now and then an EP shows up and it really bothers me. S10 E1 Gunshow  is one of these. This is the ep where McCoy goes after the gun manufacturer Rolph for making a weapon that is too easily converted into an automatic machine pistol. Trial goes all the way to the end and McCoy gets his conviction, only to have the judge issue an directed verdict of not guilty. My issue is that it makes no sense to have a trial and a verdict only to overrule it. If that was going to happen it would have happened after their case's in chief were done, not after a verdict. But that wouldn't make for as good TV I guess. Just imagine if you were a juror, you'd want to know why the judge wasted your time

This EP just sticks in my craw because of this procedure.

 

But I thought that's how it really happens, right? A judge can set aside a guilty verdict (and only a guilty verdict) after it's reached. The reason it's not always done before the verdict is because the decision to overrule a verdict can be appealed (and a judge might be held accountable in re-election), but, a 'not guilty' verdict can't be appealed since jeopardy has attached. 

Although you're right that the defense could have moved for a directed verdict before the jury deliberated if they could argue that the people failed to make their prima fascia case. 

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, cfinboston said:

Wasn't it that Green and Daniels had previously worked together? Green mentions them having been in the same precinct and Daniels says something about not having heard from Green for a ling time. Having Briscoe there may have made it seem more like an interrogation,   rather than just a talk. Daniels IMO comes off as sympathetic and has the complexity the fans appreciate. It's not all black and white. Green says beforehand how much "by the book" Daniels had been, so it shows how deeply affected he was that his mistake cost justice for Julie Sayer.  

Yeah Green and Daniels did work together, and yeah Briscoe not being there did make Green and Daniels interaction seem more like a friendly conversation than an interrogation, but it still would’ve been interesting to see Briscoe question Daniels. Daniels wasn’t at all sympathetic though, first he beat a confession out of Grimes, ruining the case against him for the murder he did commit, then he framed him for a murder he didn’t commit, as a result the real killer got away and justice would never be served, and Daniels didn’t feel any remorse for this. I don’t see how anyone could find Daniels sympathetic except for someone that has no problem with police misconduct. 

As for Gunshow and the overturned verdict, I think Wright was right in his ruling to overturn the verdict, but I think he could’ve granted a defense motion to dismiss the case after the prosecution rested had they moved for that. McCoy never should’ve had the gun manufacturers charged, it was a matter for civil courts and the legislature to sort out.

[WendyCR72]

Heads up to anyone that watches the Mothership on WE. Looks like WE is changing the schedule AGAIN. At least according to the Zap2It listings. It will air tonight (Sunday night!) from 10:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m. on Monday. It then airs from noon Monday until 3:00 a.m. Tuesday morning. CSI: Miami is taking its former Tuesday slot.

[wknt3]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Heads up to anyone that watches the Mothership on WE. Looks like WE is changing the schedule AGAIN. At least according to the Zap2It listings. It will air tonight (Sunday night!) from 10:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m. on Monday. It then airs from noon Monday until 3:00 a.m. Tuesday morning. CSI: Miami is taking its former Tuesday slot.

Thanks! Now I'll be prepared for a DVR alert if I'm still watching football at the point. I never watch the WE mothership eps live as I find the promos annoying enough FFing through them, can't imagine actually sitting through them...

[Xeliou66]

I’m watching season 18 on WE today, and I have to say I don’t like the episode Bogeyman very much, I think the episode would’ve been much better if the main villains had been the Systemotics cult, it seemed like the writers were afraid to go after a cult based on Scientology, which is strange considering they’ve gone after groups like that as well as prominent figures many times. I also disliked how Cutter pretended to be in Systemotics at the end to manipulate the killer into pleading guilty, that was underhanded and unethical IMO. I also wished they had given a little bit more time to Bernard coming over to Homicide from IAB, instead we just got a couple of comments, I wish we had known how long he had been there with this being his first episode as a regular.

The episode had an interesting premise but it could’ve been executed a lot better IMO.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Spartan Girl]

Saw "Doped" the other day.  Words cannot express how much I hate the guy that basically caused the accident.  He spiked her drink and nasal spray ON PURPOSE just because she wanted to give the lawsuit money to charity.  "Oh but I just thought she'd get into a little fender bender!"  FUCK YOU.  An intoxicated driver on the road in NEW YORK FUCKING CITY?!  Somebody was going to get hurt.

20 to life was too good for the bastard.  He should have gotten the death penalty.

[catrice2]

I love Law and Order......that's all! 

[Xeliou66]

On 10/23/2018 at 12:22 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Saw "Doped" the other day.  Words cannot express how much I hate the guy that basically caused the accident.  He spiked her drink and nasal spray ON PURPOSE just because she wanted to give the lawsuit money to charity.  "Oh but I just thought she'd get into a little fender bender!"  FUCK YOU.  An intoxicated driver on the road in NEW YORK FUCKING CITY?!  Somebody was going to get hurt.

20 to life was too good for the bastard.  He should have gotten the death penalty.

Agreed, he should’ve gotten longer, I hated him as well. However, since he tried to stop the crash by calling the victim and then calling 911, plus the fact that he could argue he never intended to kill anyone and didn’t know the kids would be in the car, that would obviously affect the sentence he got, so I can see why they agreed to a plea deal of 20 years. 

It’s a good episode, I liked the first half with Lupo and Bernard trying to figure out what happened a lot, it was interesting as once the culprit was arrested there wasn’t a whole lot more to the case, but that isn’t a bad thing, the second half was still good, a lot of the best L&O episodes don’t have constant twists. That episode has probably the bloodiest scene in L&O history when the perp stabs himself in the neck in the bathroom. I also remember ME Rodgers comes by the police station in that one, one of the few times she does that in the franchise.

[Spartan Girl]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed, he should’ve gotten longer, I hated him as well. However, since he tried to stop the crash by calling the victim and then calling 911, plus the fact that he could argue he never intended to kill anyone and didn’t know the kids would be in the car, that would obviously affect the sentence he got, so I can see why they agreed to a plea deal of 20 years. 

 

Yeah, I don't care about any of that. Not intending anyone to die doesn't take away the fact that it was a risk factor. And it sure as hell doesn't take away the fact that he was willing to let everyone think she was drunk and take the blame for the ones that died. His suicide attempt wasn't from remorse, he was trying to take the coward's way out. 

Like I said before, I have no pity for eleventh-hour guilt. This guy was a greedy, stupid coward, and fact that he was sorry for it after the fact doesn't change it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, I don't care about any of that. Not intending anyone to die doesn't take away the fact that it was a risk factor. And it sure as hell doesn't take away the fact that he was willing to let everyone think she was drunk and take the blame for the ones that died. His suicide attempt wasn't from remorse, he was trying to take the coward's way out. 

Like I said before, I have no pity for eleventh-hour guilt. This guy was a greedy, stupid coward, and fact that he was sorry for it after the fact doesn't change it.

I agree with you, I loathed the bastard and thought he deserved life in prison, I’m just pointing out some of the arguments his lawyer would’ve made to argue for a reduced sentenced, which is why they agreed to 20 years IMO, also they avoided the time and cost of a trial. I agree he deserved life though, he was a piece of shit.

Another scene I liked from Doped was McCoy standing up to the CEO of the drug company who had made a donation to McCoy in the past. 

[WendyCR72]

What a lucky voter!

[Xeliou66]

So I watched Red Ball today, and I noticed a pretty big hole in the episode : at the end when the kidnapper reveals where he’s holding the girl, he says he’s holding her in his mom’s basement : first of all, wouldn’t the police have already searched all of the property belonging to his family? Second of all, didn’t Green and Fontana interview his mom earlier in the episode and she lived in an apartment? And was his mom involved in the kidnapping? None of that was clear or made sense.

I still liked the episode, the tension between McCoy and Branch was interesting with both making good points, and I liked the reference to Cragen and SVU. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 17 on WE today, this was hands down the worst season of L&O, not only was there the terrible Detective Beauty Queen but the writing was just clunky and off in most of the episodes. 

For example, Talking Points was just on, really weak episode, it seemed like it was just trying to be as outrageous as possible for the sake of shock value without having any intelligent dialogue, it just threw in a bunch of controversial political statements and cartoonish characters without an ounce of nuance or interesting dialogue. The defense attorney throwing out slurs at the jury would result in an immediate mistrial and sanctions against the defense lawyer. And I didn’t like how sympathetic they seemed to the Ann Coulter expy, they seemed to let her spew her talking points without any pushback because of the way the case was the killer being against the right wing pundit so the DA’s had to make her look like less of an asshole. And McCoy saying at the end that he didn’t talk politics was bullshit, he had never shied away from giving his opinion on issues before, that was just the writers not wanting him to give his opinion. 

Usually L&O dealt with controversial subjects with nuance and didn’t try to be outrageous just for the sake of being outrageous, that wasn’t the case in a lot of season 17, it frequently tried to be as controversial as possible just for shock value, and the writing was clunky and weak, the twists didn’t work well usually, and the episodes just weren’t well written and didn’t seem to have the realism of earlier episodes. I did like the legal side with McCoy/Rubirosa/Branch and there were a few good episodes, but it was definitely L&O’s weakest season, I’m really glad it avoided cancellation and the show improved drastically starting in season 18.

[andromeda331]

Watching Grief from season eight I love how Jamie keeps bringing up throughout the episode what a horrible thing the mother did. I think we're suppose to think the Mother wanted a grandchild since her daughter would likely never get better. But that's not really how the Mom comes off. She keeps talking about the baby and wanting a grandchild. Even when she talks about her daughter, son-in-law and that pregnancy she comes off more focus and interested in the pregnancy. Maybe if they added a few lines that it was her only link to her daughter or something? I hated how Jack kept defending what she did as a grief stricken parent or something. She paid a man to rape her unconscious daughter. Who the hell does that? She's just as despicable as the man she paid who actually did it. 

[Spartan Girl]

I saw "Good Faith" yesterday, aka the one where the psycho religious dad kills the teacher he thinks had sex with his daughter and tries to blame it all on the fact that he was teaching evolution.  Except it was the guidance counselor who did it all along.  I know the daughter was technically molested and all -- and God knows the guidance counselor is the one to blame for crossing that line and trying to cover his ass after -- but man did I hate the daughter.  Yeah, she didn't know her dad would kill him, but still.  Her mewling to her dad in Jack's office about how she "just didn't want (the guidance counselor) to get in trouble" just made me go "SO YOU WANTED AN INNOCENT TEACHER TO GET IN TROUBLE INSTEAD?!"

Also, Melnick is still the worst.  I have no doubt she'd be defending those zealot bakers who won't make cakes for same sex couples because it offends their delicate "religious freedom."

[andromeda331]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I saw "Good Faith" yesterday, aka the one where the psycho religious dad kills the teacher he thinks had sex with his daughter and tries to blame it all on the fact that he was teaching evolution.  Except it was the guidance counselor who did it all along.  I know the daughter was technically molested and all -- and God knows the guidance counselor is the one to blame for crossing that line and trying to cover his ass after -- but man did I hate the daughter.  Yeah, she didn't know her dad would kill him, but still.  Her mewling to her dad in Jack's office about how she "just didn't want (the guidance counselor) to get in trouble" just made me go "SO YOU WANTED AN INNOCENT TEACHER TO GET IN TROUBLE INSTEAD?!"

Also, Melnick is still the worst.  I have no doubt she'd be defending those zealot bakers who won't make cakes for same sex couples because it offends their delicate "religious freedom."

Oh so did I. That response? Zero guilt over what her actions did? She got an innocent man killed! Where was her fucking remorse? I don't care that she didn't know that would happen. She had no problem naming him instead and letting him get in trouble? He could have gotten fired and had his entire life destroyed because of her lie.  Would she had said anything if that happened? Would she had spoken up if he had been arrested? If he had been convicted?

Yes Melnick is the worse. Too bad that cult didn't do a better job and killed her when they had the chance. I still don't know how she wasn't serving time after what she did in that episode.  

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I saw "Good Faith" yesterday, aka the one where the psycho religious dad kills the teacher he thinks had sex with his daughter and tries to blame it all on the fact that he was teaching evolution.  Except it was the guidance counselor who did it all along.  I know the daughter was technically molested and all -- and God knows the guidance counselor is the one to blame for crossing that line and trying to cover his ass after -- but man did I hate the daughter.  Yeah, she didn't know her dad would kill him, but still.  Her mewling to her dad in Jack's office about how she "just didn't want (the guidance counselor) to get in trouble" just made me go "SO YOU WANTED AN INNOCENT TEACHER TO GET IN TROUBLE INSTEAD?!"

Also, Melnick is still the worst.  I have no doubt she'd be defending those zealot bakers who won't make cakes for same sex couples because it offends their delicate "religious freedom."

I saw Good Faith as well, it’s actually one of the more interesting season 17 episodes IMO, I disliked the daughter as well with how she scapegoated the teacher, but I had some sympathy for her as I think her nutjob father really fucked her up with his rants about demons being everywhere and her mother burning in hell. And yeah I loathe the self righteous Melnick, she always took on some of the most repugnant clients and had a very self serving agenda, her defense of justifiable homicide because the victim was teaching the killer’s daughter evolution was beyond preposterous, the daughter can make up her own mind how the world was created, religious people always make a big deal about having free will, and yet the defense was acting Iike the victim was controlling the daughters brain, not to mention how absurd it is that god would punish someone for not believing in creationism when there are millions and millions of people who don’t have any religious beliefs at all that are doing just fine, as McCoy stated. The whole thing was ludicrous and crap like that is why I abandoned religion.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

So I watched Driven today, that episode pisses me off with how both defendants got the same sentence at the end. The guy who actually fired the shots was much more responsible than the mom IMO, yes the mom did escalate the situation but the shooter’s son and his friends started the whole altercation by stealing the basketball and I feel that they did have the right to get their ball back, and that fact was ignored. I didn’t think it was justice at all that both received the same sentence, they shooter should’ve gotten much more time than the mom IMO.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

So I watched Driven today, that episode pisses me off with how both defendants got the same sentence at the end. The guy who actually fired the shots was much more responsible than the mom IMO, yes the mom did escalate the situation but the shooter’s son and his friends started the whole altercation by stealing the basketball and I feel that they did have the right to get their ball back, and that fact was ignored. I didn’t think it was justice at all that both received the same sentence, they shooter should’ve gotten much more time than the mom IMO.

I was actually thinking it was the other way around. The mom brought her kids there with weapons (baseball bats).  Her actions were premeditated.

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, Katy M said:

I was actually thinking it was the other way around. The mom brought her kids there with weapons (baseball bats).  Her actions were premeditated.

But the other kids started it by stealing the basketball. They had the right to get their ball back, although charging in with baseball bats did escalate the situation, they could’ve gone about it differently, but the son of the shooter and his friends started it, and then the dad fired the shots because he was pissed off about what was going on in the community. I don’t feel at all that both sides were equally responsible.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

But the other kids started it by stealing the basketball. They had the right to get their ball back, although charging in with baseball bats did escalate the situation, they could’ve gone about it differently, but the son of the shooter and his friends started it, and then the dad fired the shots because he was pissed off about what was going on in the community. I don’t feel at all that both sides were equally responsible.

Stealing basketballs isn't a capital offense.  You can not go after someone with weapons due to petty larceny.  If they have a right to get their ball back, then they call the police.  And, I also don't feel that both sides were equally responsible. The mom was way more responsible because she is the one who gave her children weapons in order to solve a petty disagreement.

And, if your argument is that the son started in, then the son should have been charged also.

Also, if I remember correctly (I haven't seen this episode in a while), the jury found them not guilty of the murder of the kid the father was actually trying to shoot and only found them guilty of manslaughter of the innocent little girl. Which tells me that the jury saw the main object of the shooting as justifiable.  And, the mom is the one that sent that crazy kid out with a baseball bat.  That was someone else's kid, right?  His parents should sue her for wrongful death.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Katy M

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Stealing basketballs isn't a capital offense.  You can not go after someone with weapons due to petty larceny.  If they have a right to get their ball back, then they call the police.  And, I also don't feel that both sides were equally responsible. The mom was way more responsible because she is the one who gave her children weapons in order to solve a petty disagreement.

And, if your argument is that the son started in, then the son should have been charged also.

Also, if I remember correctly (I haven't seen this episode in a while), the jury found them not guilty of the murder of the kid the father was actually trying to shoot and only found them guilty of manslaughter of the innocent little girl. Which tells me that the jury saw the main object of the shooting as justifiable.  And, the mom is the one that sent that crazy kid out with a baseball bat.  That was someone else's kid, right?  His parents should sue her for wrongful death.

Stealing something isn’t a petty disagreement, it’s a crime, and the shooter’s kid and his friends picked the fight by stealing the basketball. I’m not saying they had the right to go in with baseball bats but I am saying that they had the right to stand up for themselves and the person who fired the shots was much more responsible than the mom. 

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Stealing something isn’t a petty disagreement, it’s a crime, and the shooter’s kid and his friends picked the fight by stealing the basketball. I’m not saying they had the right to go in with baseball bats but I am saying that they had the right to stand up for themselves and the person who fired the shots was much more responsible than the mom. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Because the mother was the one who brought in weapons for vigilante justice, and the father was protecting himself with a weapon he already had at his home.

[andromeda331]

Teenage Wasteland was on last night. It really is the best episode with Nora. While she still drives me crazy at some of her shock at them wanting to seek the death penalty against an eighteen year old. It did a better job of presenting both sides. They show her struggling with the decision but ends with her following the law. I like the scene with her in the room going through law books trying to find a precedent but couldn't and her talk with Abby. If they had done that with Nora in the other episodes it would have made her seasons on the show much better. I like the discussion around the table with the other DAs too what it looks like if they apply it or don't apply it. I don't remember who said it but I did like the remark about how when its a black kid there would be no hesitation or struggle but because its a white boy who looks like the kid next door they are all trying to find reasons not do.  Its exactly right.  

[Xeliou66]

So is this where we discuss L&O now? Since L&O has its own forum now I’m guessing this is where we can discuss past episodes and stuff, I’m just checking since the other discussion thread has been locked.

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

So is this where we discuss L&O now? Since L&O has its own forum now I’m guessing this is where we can discuss past episodes and stuff, I’m just checking since the other discussion thread has been locked.

Yep, this is the right spot.

[Door County Cherry]

23 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

So is this where we discuss L&O now? Since L&O has its own forum now I’m guessing this is where we can discuss past episodes and stuff, I’m just checking since the other discussion thread has been locked.

There are also threads for every previous season that you can use 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

So is this where we discuss L&O now? Since L&O has its own forum now I’m guessing this is where we can discuss past episodes and stuff, I’m just checking since the other discussion thread has been locked.

Yay! Our old Forum has been revived!!!!😁

[WendyCR72]

Never knew Sam Waterston had a daughter that is also an actress, but apparently, Katherine Waterston will have a role in the second season of Perry Mason on HBO.

From the description, it sounds like she may be a love interest for ol' Perry.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Never knew Sam Waterston had a daughter that is also an actress, but apparently, Katherine Waterston will have a role in the second season of Perry Mason on HBO.

From the description, it sounds like she may be a love interest for ol' Perry.

There’s only ONE Perry, and that was Raymond Burr.

And Della was the woman he loved. Sure, it took over 40 years for them to get together, but it’s Raymond and Barbara.

Matthew Rhys ain’t Perry.

What?

[Xeliou66]

So I watched the first episode of season 15 tonight, Paradigm, and Fontana just rubbed me the wrong way, he was a dick right off the bat - I found him to be extremely disrespectful to Van Buren, saying that he “didn’t know he was transferred in to the local chapter of Amnesty International” and his entire attitude towards her and Green was just that of an entitled prick. I know that Lennie was impossible to replace, and I’m glad they made Fontana different from him, but goddamn Fontana was downright unlikable at times. 

I do like the episode, even if the show did kind of overdo Iraq War themed episode around this time - this was one of many episodes where Serena and Arthur clashed, they just flat out disliked each other most of the time, and Arthur wound up firing her this season. I was on Arthur’s side for the most part in this one regarding the legal issues even though I disagree with a lot of his politics. Serena’s whiny behavior just got on my nerves. I thought Jack made a really strong closing argument and I agreed with the jury’s guilty verdict, this was a revenge killing and revenge killings/vigilante justice have no place in a civilized society, vigilantism was one of McCoy’s pet peeves, he never tolerated it. 

[paigow]

When the revival finally launches, will there be a sub - forum to avoid scrolling 20 seasons of episodes?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well DAMN. I thought we had all seasons revived, but I guess not.

I'm trying to be fair and watching the RohmBOT years. I just finished season 13 and GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY. Watching "Open Season", I would have thought that TWAT, Melnick would have learned her lesson. But NOPE. We had to see her again in "City Hall", "Faith", and FINALLY in "America, Inc." where Jack FINALLY, FINALLY told her off in that glorious "I don't give a DAMN what you think!" or was it "who cares...!" Either way, she got off too easy.

And then "Smoke". I...there are not enough words to express my utter RAGE at Rohmbot. She starts off okay, telling Sammy that he needed justice and that that The White Michael Jackson Rip-Off Bender had no right to do what he did. Then she devolved into "But at least they're both alive" nonsense. Seriously??? Did she honestly think that Sammy is grateful to be alive knowing his parents FUCKING SOLD HIM TO BE RAPED? That he has to live with that for the rest of his life?!!!! And she can miss me with her whole "I can't believe that I'm the only one who doesn't have any children who has any empathy..." blah, blah, fishcakes nonsense.

And all I can hear now is "But Davey! Davey! Davey!"

Or "Bodies". That legal aid lawyer, who was so smug and arrogant and gleeful at the chance to represent this serial killer, has the utter gall to act as if he's the 21st century version of Perry Fucking Mason (which he so was NOT!) He can take a million gazillion seats, with how he was acting all above it all, with his "shame on them" after Rohmbot told him the bar review board probably wouldn't have disbarred him.

Don't get me wrong--on the face of it, if he hadn't gone looking for proof to "confirm" that serial killer had indeed murdered all those girls--when he did that--he became a co-conspirator. Yeah, yeah, I'm probably wrong, but, teevee! He should have revealed the location. IF he was told where they were and hadn't gone looking, then, no, I don't think he should have revealed the location. But that's not what happened.

[Xeliou66]

Oh god, Melnick and Serena both really pissed me off - Melnick should’ve been disbarred for her actions in Open Season, she blatantly violated a judge’s order and it got someone killed, I hated how Jack went to bat for her in that one and got her off. And yes in America Inc Jack going off on her was glorious after she put her own interests ahead of her client’s, it was “who gives a damn what you think anyway!!” that he yelled at her at the end, and yeah that was great. And then she returned in Good Faith and was on her high horse the whole time, she infuriated me in that one, saying that defending the religious nutbag who killed the teacher was the “right principle” fuck off Melnick, religious nuts don’t get a free pass for murder, and her defense was incredibly stupid, Arthur was right that the judge should’ve been thrown off the bench for allowing it.

And Serena still feeling sympathy for those garbage parents after learning they knowingly sold their son to a pedophile was the most disgusting thing a main character on the show ever did or said. I have no idea what was wrong with Serena, those people were human trash who let their kid get raped for money, they deserved to rot in prison and Serena still acted like it was a tragedy that they were being put away, Jack was right when he said their children were better off without them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Also forgot to add after watching "Bitch" again, that Lucie Arnaz is so not nearly or even close to the talented actress her mother, Lucille was. It makes me wish that Desi, Jr. had guest starred.  He at least had some talent as an adult. Lucie is...passable.

[Spartan Girl]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:23 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Or "Bodies". That legal aid lawyer, who was so smug and arrogant and gleeful at the chance to represent this serial killer, has the utter gall to act as if he's the 21st century version of Perry Fucking Mason (which he so was NOT!) He can take a million gazillion seats, with how he was acting all above it all, with his "shame on them" after Rohmbot told him the bar review board probably wouldn't have disbarred him.

Don't get me wrong--on the face of it, if he hadn't gone looking for proof to "confirm" that serial killer had indeed murdered all those girls--when he did that--he became a co-conspirator. Yeah, yeah, I'm probably wrong, but, teevee! He should have revealed the location. IF he was told where they were and hadn't gone looking, then, no, I don't think he should have revealed the location. But that's not what happened

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

And word to everything you said about “Smoke.” “At least they’re still alive!” is the most tone-deaf thing Serena has ever said and that’s saying A LOT.

[Door County Cherry]

I've created an Anticipation thread for Season 21.  Until the new season debuts, could we try to keep discussion of upcoming episodes in that thread and discussion of everything else in this thread?

It'll make it easier for people who want to focus more on the new season to find those posts.  

And those of us who'd like to discuss the past episodes ad nauseum can do just that.  

[Jaded]

I recently saw "Smoke" for the first time recently. Apparently it originally aired during a time when I wasn't as much of an avid viewer. It made me loose most of the sympathy I had started to feel towards Serena. That whole episode was so disgusting. It's one I don't care to ever see again. I don't regret having seen it though.

[GHScorpiosRule]

“Ain’t No Love”

Rohmbot’s last episode.

Rohmbot: “Is this because I’m a Lesbian?”

Foghorn: “Of course not! No! Of course not.” (Or something like that)

Rohmbot:”Good. Good.”(in a whisper)

Me: Da Fuck??! That’s her reaction to being fired? Even though it was coming, what with her siding with the defense and being loathe to prosecute and do her job. I don’t remember if they’d announced her leaving or if it was last minute.

Good Riddance. I hate that she had the longest tenure.

 

[Xeliou66]

As I’ve said before, I think Serena’s comments in Smoke expressing sympathy for those pieces of human waste that sold their kid to a pedophile knowing he would be raped is the most disgusting thing one of the main characters ever said or did on L&O. Those parents were worthless trash, and Serena acting like it was some kind of tragedy that they were going to jail was sickening.

And yeah Serena’s exit was just bizarre, very awkward. It was no surprise Arthur wound up firing her, she was too soft and too sympathetic to defendants to be an effective prosecutor, and her relationship with Arthur was hostile much of the time, by far the most hostile relationship between 2 main characters on the show, it seemed to me like Serena made up her mind about Arthur from day 1 just because they had such different views on legal/political issues, and Arthur seemed annoyed with her whining many times.

Serena and Borgia were the 2 weakest ADA’s by a mile, the others were all great. Speaking of Borgia, the main episode where I hate her, In God We Trust, was on today, she was really pathetic in that one, it seemed like she believed that people who were religious should get a free pass for murder if they were remorseful, and that’s bullshit, I liked how Jack pointed out, after Borgia talked about forgiveness being a Christian ideal, Jack replied “and if you don’t believe in Christ you just have to do your time?”. Religious beliefs of defendants shouldn’t affect how they are treated, and I strongly disliked Borgia for implying otherwise.

[Spartan Girl]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:11 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

“Ain’t No Love”

Rohmbot’s last episode.

Rohmbot: “Is this because I’m a Lesbian?”

Foghorn: “Of course not! No! Of course not.” (Or something like that)

Rohmbot:”Good. Good.”(in a whisper)

Me: Da Fuck??! That’s her reaction to being fired? Even though it was coming, what with her siding with the defense and being loathe to prosecute and do her job. I don’t remember if they’d announced her leaving or if it was last minute.

Good Riddance. I hate that she had the longest tenure.

 

They could have fired her back in “Smoke”, but nooooooooo…

Can you imagine if Twitter had existed back when these episodes aired? Serena would have gotten skewered for her constant perp pity.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Can you imagine if Twitter had existed back when these episodes aired? Serena would have gotten skewered for her constant perp pity.

I'm grateful that it wasn't around. TWoP was more than good enough for her to get skewered but good.

I've been avoiding any movies or episodes that deal with any kind of epidemic or pandemic, so I don't know WHY I watched "Fluency" the other day. 

Did people actually think the flu shot/vaccine was 100% effective even back then? It's always been 40-45% effective.

All that aside, seeing the defendant responsible for selling the fake vaccines, tear up and show remorse...I was like, well what the FUCK did you think would happen when you sold the fake vaccines?!!! I loved Jack's analogy to that Orson Welles movie. 

And now that WE is finally airing Season One! Episodes, I'll be modifying my dvr to record only from that network.

[Spartan Girl]

23 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I've been avoiding any movies or episodes that deal with any kind of epidemic or pandemic, so I don't know WHY I watched "Fluency" the other day. 

Did people actually think the flu shot/vaccine was 100% effective even back then? It's always been 40-45% effective.

All that aside, seeing the defendant responsible for selling the fake vaccines, tear up and show remorse...I was like, well what the FUCK did you think would happen when you sold the fake vaccines?!!! I loved Jack's analogy to that Orson Welles movie. 

Oh yeah. Fucker deserved everything he got.

[Jaded]

S1 EP17: Mushrooms was on WE which was S. Epatha Merkerson's first appearance on L&O in 1991 before she came on as  Lieutenant Anita Van Buren in 1993. Her last comment on the episode where she played the Mom of a baby who died from a botched hit by a young teen was really memorable. She commented on how the teen made a deal that would allow him to get out in 7 years when her baby would have been turning 8 and asked the person who posed the question how they'd feel. 

[balmz]

here's a interesting question i saw on reddit once

 

what single episode would you show someone who never watched or even heard of the show that you think would guarantee they would be interested or an episode that would most likely make them not want to watch more episodes 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, balmz said:

here's a interesting question i saw on reddit once

 

what single episode would you show someone who never watched or even heard of the show that you think would guarantee they would be interested or an episode that would most likely make them not want to watch more episodes 

Great question, and a very difficult one to answer - it’s much easier to say the episodes I would avoid showing to a first time viewer, and that would be any episode that deviated from normal L&O formula, such as Aftershock or an episode where a main character gets killed off or an episode that is a follow up to an earlier episode or has a lot of references to one, or episodes with heavy political stuff.

I would want to show to a first time viewer an episode with a stellar case, good investigation and legal stuff, with preferably a great cast lineup. Season 10 has my favorite cast lineup, so a couple of episodes that stand out from that season that I think would be good for a first time viewer are Sundown and DNR. Season 5 has a great cast as well, Purple Heart from that season stands out as a great episode. Also an episode that stands out as one of my favorites is Teenage Wasteland from season 11, that’s a fantastic episode. So those are some episode I think would be good to start with.

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, balmz said:

here's a interesting question i saw on reddit once

 

what single episode would you show someone who never watched or even heard of the show that you think would guarantee they would be interested or an episode that would most likely make them not want to watch more episodes 

Couples. S13x23. One of my all time favorites.  Ed & Lennie have a really bad day. 🙂