Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

The promotion seemed old school too me. TV promos for the general audience were all action and SM threw in some Olicity. Interestingly enough ratings didn't go up but they were in Top 5 twitter ratings.

I find this interesting, because while social media did go with O/F, it did so only in the last couple of days. So that probably helped out with the Top 5, but it was probably too late to reach generic civilian viewer on Facebook whose real world is on fire right now.

[ladylaw99]

If it wasn't for this board, I personally would have forgotten Arrow was even back.

[Midnight Lullaby]

The cliffhanger was supposed to get people back after the hiatus. That was the thing they were counting on and it didn't work.

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder how that's viewed. Hey guys, Laurel/KC didn't boost ratings I guess we need to bring her back to treat her better. Or..... Laurel/KC didn't boost ratings looks like we don't have to bring her back anymore.

LOL - I missed looking at the tea leaves.

You'd have to be Level 20 Spin Doctor to translate a drop in ratings into we need more LL/KC. 

I'm not saying the ratings drop is because of her or anything but, it certainly doesn't help any claim that Arrow needs KC/LL.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm a big believer in the lesson learned in Sullivan's Travels (great movie, btw): When the real world is terrible, lots of people want their entertainment to be, well, entertaining. This is really the perfect time for the show to lighten the heck up.

[EmilyBettFan]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

And everyone was so happy that they were promoting Oliver/Felicity more lol.

People were excited to have Laurel back but it was spoiled to the heavens that it wasn't her so why bother? Their tactic worked against them. 

I know plenty of Laurel fans didn't even bother with this one.

They had two half second scenes in the video promo and those photo stills were from the same scene at the end of the episode. Other than that there was no promo for Olicity whereas they were talking about that cliffhanger until about 1 or so week ago when they started talking about Felicity's actual story and that started to get way more traction because BS wasn't getting them that chatter.

[wonderwall]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sure people will come up with reasons for the ratings... Maybe it was spoiled that it wasn't the REAL Laurel or maybe it's becuase it was a Felicity episode which... ewww. LOL

@Cleanqueen, I knew it LOL

Edited January 26, 2017 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sure people will come up with reasons for the ratings... Maybe it was spoiled that it wasn't the REAL Laurel or maybe it's becuase it was a Felicity episode which... ewww. LOL

IMO It was the cliffhanger but ok.

Arrow has already been down to .6 this year, right?  I'm more curious what next week's numbers look like.  

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

I'm a big believer in the lesson learned in Sullivan's Travels (great movie, btw): When the real world is terrible, lots of people want their entertainment to be, well, entertaining. This is really the perfect time for the show to lighten the heck up.

I don't think I can take another light season of Arrow.  Last time it got me BMD and Felicity in a wheelchair, lol.

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think I can take another light season of Arrow.  Last time it got me BMD and Felicity in a wheelchair, lol.

Actual human version of "lighter," not Guggie's Neptunian interpretation.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

Actual human version of "lighter," not Guggie's Neptunian interpretation.

As long as he gets the memo, I'm all for it!  :D

[Morrigan2575]

[Starfish35]

So LoT beat Arrow by about 58K viewers?

Will be interesting to see the SPN and Riverdale ratings tomorrow to see where it ranks for the week.

[Chaser]

Series low?

[Starfish35]

No, it's hit 0.6 a couple other times this season, and it got 1.61 million viewers for 5.05.  But it's matching their series low in the demo, and it's the second lowest in viewers.  

http://www.spottedratings.com/2016/10/spotvault-arrow-cw-2016-17-ratings.html

Edited January 26, 2017 by Starfish35

[Featherhat]

Given that all CD TV shows returned down I don't think this can be blamed on either actress or a particular storyline. However it probably isn't going to encourage them to write more LL stories that they haven't already planned for.

[Primal Slayer]

5 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

They had two half second scenes in the video promo and those photo stills were from the same scene at the end of the episode. Other than that there was no promo for Olicity whereas they were talking about that cliffhanger until about 1 or so week ago when they started talking about Felicity's actual story and that started to get way more traction because BS wasn't getting them that chatter.

The stills being from one scene doesnt mean anything, it was still used to promote the episode along with them being talked about the most in just about every interview. 

[insomniadreams88]

7 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sure people will come up with reasons for the ratings...

This is what always happens. Earlier this season when MG made some comment about shippers and ratings, LL fans were saying that it was because they killed off Laurel that people weren't watching.

It's what happens with any show really. Groups of fans will claim ratings are lower because a character was killed off or left/a couple broke up/etc. 

But lack of promotion definitely doesn't help and I feel like the CW has kind of been weak in that regard for most of its shows this season. 

[LeighAn]

Or this is just Arrows base audience numbers and has absolutely no bearing on any actor or ship/non ship?

[EmilyBettFan]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

The stills being from one scene doesnt mean anything, it was still used to promote the episode along with them being talked about the most in just about every interview. 

Yeah but the interviews came like the day or two Before the episode and the interviews were about a collective of episodes/arcs not about the specific episode. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

The stills being from one scene doesnt mean anything, it was still used to promote the episode along with them being talked about the most in just about every interview. 

Not sure you can claim the interviews since their romantic relationship is constantly referred to as being over, Felicity's mentions involve getting a story outside of her former romantic relationship with Oliver and getting revenge for Billy's death, and Oliver's main selling point lately is about the "genuine feelings" he's gonna have for a woman who is not Felicity. 

[Guest]

General audience doesn't care about interviews, promo pictures or what's RT'd on twitter though. Usually the episode description and what happened in the previous episode (and maybe the video promo that's been aired during the hiatus) is what gets people tuning in for the next one. 

I think it's really silly to try to blame one side or the other when none of us have any idea why people didn't watch. Plus I think this is genuinely Arrow's numbers now.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Not sure you can claim the interviews since their romantic relationship is constantly referred to as being over, Felicity's mentions involve getting a story outside of her former romantic relationship with Oliver and getting revenge for Billy's death, and Oliver's main selling point lately is about the "genuine feelings" he's gonna have for a woman who is not Felicity. 

I am not referring to Olicity. Oliver/Felicity (for me thats how I differentiate the two) as individuals.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I am not referring to Olicity. Oliver/Felicity (for me thats how I differentiate the two) as individuals.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Oliver/Felicity to me indicates the ship - if I were speaking of them as individuals, I'd just say Oliver and Felicity. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Or this is just Arrows base audience numbers and has absolutely no bearing on any actor or ship/non ship?

I don't know what caused the drop, it's possible people just didn't realize the shows were back. Although, Supergirl and LoT don't seem to support that. It's possible people were just bored with the MSF and decided not to tune back in. It's possible people thought the promo looked dumb and decided not to watch.

I tend to lean towards the last one, mostly because for shows for which I'm a casual viewer, the previews and my appreciation of the previous episode is what gets me to watch or skip the next week.

I do wonder if Arrow has hit it's base/core audience (Ala Supernatural) or if it will dip some more.

[kismet]

I don't see people blaming an actor or character for the drop. I do think we might have found Arrows core Nielsen Numbers. Sadly the new low may be the new normal. However, I do think the lack of a boost in ratings could be used as evidence to not bring that character/actor back for more. Certainly her big cliffhanger didn't bring people back.

I also wonder what the streaming, +3/7 day numbers wil be. I think Arrow has lost a lot of its live audience (myself ibcluded) but some people may still be holding on in the ondemand/stream world.

[EmilyBettFan]

All I know is if they promote right and actually do it starting now by highlighting all aspects of the show, they probably will see an increase.

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, EmilyBettFan said:

All I know is if they promote right and actually do it starting now by highlighting all aspects of the show, they probably will see an increase.

I honestly wonder if they would? It's possible they might not be able to recover any viewers.

[AyChihuahua]

8 minutes ago, kismet said:

I also wonder what the streaming, +3/7 day numbers wil be. I think Arrow has lost a lot of its live audience (myself ibcluded) but some people may still be holding on in the ondemand/stream world.

They have consistently been down around a million viewers in Live +7. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I honestly wonder if they would? It's possible they might not be able to recover any viewers.

If the TVD is any indication, they won't. But they have crossovers to help boost them up.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

All I know is if they promote right and actually do it starting now by highlighting all aspects of the show, they probably will see an increase.

But promotion doesn't matter if it's not what's in the episodes. If they promote an episode with character X but the focus of the episode turns out to be on character Y, people aren't going to be happy and they might not tune in the next week. 

[AyChihuahua]

13 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If the TVD is any indication, they won't. But they have crossovers to help boost them up.

Jenna (@RillaCuthbert) is a statistician who's crunched a bunch of numbers, and basically, once viewers leave a CW show en masse, they don't come back.

[tangerine95]

Didn't arrow manage to get viewers back before tho? Like in season 2 they dropped down to an 0.7 for a while and managed to get it back up for the finale and even more for the season 3 premiere. Maybe it's easier for a younger show tho, in season 5 it feels unlikely. 

I think promo helps ratings the most before a season starts, like the stuff that comes out of comic con and the bigger trailers. Imo the promo before season 5 really hurt the ratings since it was basically promoted as a different show and every big trailer was newbie heavy with barely any of the main characters besides Oliver. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think the older a show gets the harder it is to gain/regain an audience. There are of course exceptions to the rule, NCIS grew its audience after going into Syndication on USA. I think Syndication on TNT helped SPN a bit.

What I see with Arrow is that it seemed to hit S5 and blew a gasket. It seems to be following TVD in some aspects. It'll be curious to see if this is the new norm for successful CW shows. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[MaisyDaisy]

Season 5 of TVD also messed with it's popular characters/ships. Lots of fans left when their ships were seperated, their faves were killed off, and the writers became very arrogant and derisive towards shippers/fans when called out on plot holes, misogyny or racism. They also said crossovers were too hard.

Arrow literally has TVD as a cheat sheet on what not to do.

[EmilyBettFan]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I honestly wonder if they would? It's possible they might not be able to recover any viewers.

I think they could. People are easily swayed. Look at what a few interview did based on Felicity. It's bringing back some of those fans who said they stopped watching.

If they could just get rid of chico.

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

I think they could. People are easily swayed. Look at what a few interview did based on Felicity. It's bringing back some of those fans who said they stopped watching.

If they aren't Nielsen households, they won't affect the ratings. They might give the show the social media buzz that's been absent this season, though.

Edited January 27, 2017 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

I'm just laughing. What happened to the 1+ million people who watched the promo on YouTube to support Ll/KC? ?

[Mellowyellow]

Could it just be a very simple explanation that Lethal Weapon has caned them?

LW is a very good show with two very charming leads. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think Arrow broke its audience back in 415. I've nothing to back this up. My thoughts on this are absolutely framed by my own bias. Arrow went from 2.70 million viewers in 415 to 2.07 in 416. Now, there may have been external factors, I can't remember. What I do remember is 415 is the episode Arrow blew up its popular ship in the most awful way possible and the next episode was watched by 610,000 fewer people. That's A LOT OF PEOPLE. Numbers recovered a little bit after that, hitting a 2.34 for 417 but never higher. Then the EPs spent the summer telling viewers there was nothing of what they enjoy in the coming season. Promotions during the summer emphasized no Olicity, no OTA, focusing instead on the noobs and the return of Laurel. And the show, for the first time in its history, hit a 0.7 for its premiere.

The Flash also saw lower numbers so maybe it's just people getting tired of DCTV shows, but it could also be people getting tired of heroes that end up being selfish dicks. I mean, Flash started the season with the dreaded Flashpoint, . 

I don't think it's necessarily the breaking up of Olicity that sunk the S5 ratings. I think the way Arrow handled that garbage fire BMD storyline put off a lot of viewers and turned them against the hero of the show. Not in a ragey, "I hate Oliver" kind of way but more of a "eh, he's a dick, honey, check what's on other channels" kind of way. It didn't help that it seemed the show paired Oliver more often with characters not named Felicity. A bad thing, IMO, because on his own Oliver is not very likable. I thought TPTB understood this with the adjustments they made in the first season. Maybe they forgot. 

This probably doesn't make much sense. I know I'm rambling. Oh well. G'night.

[thegirlsleuth]

8 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I don't think it's necessarily the breaking up of Olicity that sunk the S5 ratings. I think the way Arrow handled that garbage fire BMD storyline put off a lot of viewers and turned them against the hero of the show. Not in a ragey, "I hate Oliver" kind of way but more of a "eh, he's a dick, honey, check what's on other channels" kind of way. It didn't help that it seemed the show paired Oliver more often with characters not named Felicity. A bad thing, IMO, because on his own Oliver is not very likable. I thought TPTB understood this with the adjustments they made in the first season. Maybe they forgot. 

I do sometimes think that the baby mama drama was the beginning of the end for this show because all subsets of fans lost trust in the writing. 4A let people recover from the melodrama of season 3, and there were a lot of articles written in the first half about how Arrow got its groove back, even by some comic fans who were fine with Olicity as long as it was melodrama-free.  Then that stupid storyline brought the terrible melodrama, and people who disliked Oliver and Felicity together threw up their hands because it meant viewers were in for more melodrama and people who liked Oliver and Felicity threw up their hands because the show runners decided to destroy both the relationships and the characters.  Coupled with season three melodrama, a lot of people started to look at season 2 as a fluke, and stopped trusting the writers to put together a good story.  

I know for myself, I really enjoyed this week's episode, but next week it could go back to Oliver and Felicity acting like strangers and Oliver deciding to kill? avoid killing? what is it this week? and I wouldn't be surprised.  This show is consistent in its inconsistency.

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Arrow went from 2.70 million viewers in 415 to 2.07 in 416.

Wow. I actually completely forgot that the show had a million more viewers less than a year ago.

[dtissagirl]

6 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm just laughing. What happened to the 1+ million people who watched the promo on YouTube to support Ll/KC? ?

They're probably all in foreign lands of piracy living lives of uselessness for the US prime time ratings?

[Midnight Lullaby]

And if 200 people watch something 5000 times it counts only on YouTube. 

[Primal Slayer]

9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm just laughing. What happened to the 1+ million people who watched the promo on YouTube to support Ll/KC? ?

Why watch when it's already spoiled. 

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Why watch when it's already spoiled. 

Why try to make it the "most-watched" promo to prove some kind of a point to the show about Laurel (which, based on what I saw was a concerted effort by her fans) and then not actually watch it to pump up the numbers TPTB actually somewhat care about?

Edited January 27, 2017 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Could it just be a very simple explanation that Lethal Weapon has caned them?

LW is a very good show with two very charming leads. 

I love that show. Everybody has such great chemistry (except, for me, the psychologist). I even like the teenagers, and I love that Riggs is building relationships with every member of the family. And they have tons of homages to the movies that aren't just copies. Everybody is pretty intelligent (I cannot tolerate stupid heroes, OLIVER) and they have an impressive ability to turn heartbreaking moments funny and vice versa.

And it's a similar type of show, imo done better. I definitely think it's hurting Arrow's ratings.

[wonderwall]

57 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Why try to make it the "most-watched" promo to prove some kind of a point to the show about Laurel (which, based on what I saw was a concerted effort by her fans) and then not actually watch it to pump up the numbers TPTB actually somewhat care about?

Bingo. Lmao

The ratings just show that maybe it's better not to bring Laurel back, which I'm sure goes against the reason why people wanted that promo to be the most watched one on YouTube. 

3 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

They're probably all in foreign lands of piracy living lives of uselessness for the US prime time ratings?

No I know. It's just that the hits on the promo was used as a way to prove that laurel is popular... Well the ratings don't prove that at all. 

[Morrigan2575]

For comparison, SPN came back at 8PM with a 0.6 and 1.713. Riverdale not looking too good, IMO.

[Starfish35]

So Arrow came in #5 for the week.

Yeah, that's not a great start for Riverdale.  For comparison purposes, No Tomorrow started with 0.5 and 1.51 million viewers.  Frequency started with 0.4 and 1.35 million viewers.  Both are now likely cancelled.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, if SPN holds in viewers it will be #4 and Arrow #5