The Writers of OUAT: Because, Um, Magic, That's Why

[YaddaYadda]

A Tale of Two Sisters

"This book is why I'm suffering, not Marian.  Every story in it has one thing in common: the villains never get the happy ending, and it's always been right. I thought not being the villain would change things, but this book, these stories, only see me one way."

 

This is so incredibly ridiculous.  How is anyone in the book getting their happy ending at all when the Charmings story ends with them putting Emma in a fucking tree trunk portal?  How does it end well for Ruby who has her boyfriend for dinner or for Whale who fails at bringing his brother back?  How are any of the stories in the book happy endings?  Even freakin' Robin loses his wife, she is presumed dead and no matter how much of a douche he is, he still lost the woman he loved, so how is that a happy ending?

 

I just don't understand the significance of the book anymore.  They decided to forget everything they ever wrote about it being stories that happened.  The book isn't writing itself.  Neither Emma (as a teenager or an adult) nor Hook (who didn't travel with the original curse) were in it.  They became part of it after they time traveled.  

 

This show makes my head hurt.

Edited December 31, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

That inspired me to look up the various explanations for Operation Mongoose in 4A.   Enjoy reading the same thing 11 times.  Creative writing at its finest.

 

Thanks for taking a bullet for us.

 

I do think there is a reason behind all that repetitiveness. They have to keep hitting the viewers over the head with a sledgehammer so that we will stop objecting. Regina was a villain.  Bad things do happen to the heroes. Rumple lost his son like 3 days ago and just finished being held captive by a psycho - how is he having a happy ending?

 

There is no logic in Operation Mongoose at all. I can see Regina being delusional (she frequently is), but why is everybody else cheerfully buying into it? Because they need the audience to buy in too. Repeat the claim frequently enough and have it be unquestioned and then the viewers should follow along.

 

I wish A&E would stop and think for a minute:

1. It's not a great idea if there is no logic behind it.

2. It's not a great idea if it contradicts 3 seasons worth of canon

3. It's not a great idea if it causes multiple characters to act out of character

4. It's not a great idea if you have to keep beating viewers over the head with a sledgehammer to convince them it is a good idea.

5. It's a really horrible idea if you have to do all of the above.

 

I get that they think Operation Mongoose is a great idea, but it's not a great idea in the world they've built. There is no indication that the Evil Queen in the Enchanted Forest wasn't every inch of a villain. I don't care who Eva tripped or Snow told a secret to, it doesn't change that Regina was a straight up, no question villain. And every excuse that she has for being a villain has also happened to the heroes on the show, usually in much worse conditions.

 

So, every time she whines that the book portrays her as a villain, I say "Yes, and the problem is?". The book covers a time when she was a villain. Every time she complains that the book prevents her from getting happy endings because she is a villain, I say "Who does it give happy endings to? You've had it lucky compared to your 'hero' victims."

 

The book idea may be a really great idea, but not for this show. They should have put it in their pocket and saved it for another show or movie in the future.

Edited December 31, 2014 by kili

[Curio]

You know when Henry of all people says, "This is the best idea you've ever had..." it's actually probably the worst idea ever.

 

Why do I get the feeling Henry is just the writers' self-insert character who forces their opinions down our throats? "But she's come so far! She can't go evil again!" "Operation Mongoose is super awesome! Don't worry, just because the Shattered Sight Spell is here doesn't mean we can't keep doing this in 4B!" "You're dating Robin Hood? Cool!"

Edited December 31, 2014 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

That's probably why I hate Henry so much and wish they'd just send him away.  A long ass trip to Europe or in the middle of the ocean then he can send them a postcard and tell them he decided to not come back because he loves his new life so much.  One thing I was happy about with 4A was that it was Henry light.

[Camera One]

I do think there is a reason behind all that repetitiveness. They have to keep hitting the viewers over the head with a sledgehammer so that we will stop objecting. Regina was a villain.  

 

There is no logic in Operation Mongoose at all. I can see Regina being delusional (she frequently is), but why is everybody else cheerfully buying into it? Because they need the audience to buy in too. Repeat the claim frequently enough and have it be unquestioned and then the viewers should follow along.

 

They are very much stating it as fact.  Heck, even Rumple is actively working towards it now.  So that means A&E doesn't recognize the dichotomy between the idea that the Author can change the endings and their previous plotlines about the Storybook, as recent as the 3B finale?  If this is all a big ruse about how delusional the villains are in thinking some Author decides their fate, then why would they have the heroes joining in the quest as well?  

 

Clearly, they decided beforehand that the Author plot needed to be explained in almost every episode in 4A.  But why?  Was it a directive from above, to have it explained to "Frozen" folks tuning in?  I can imagine someone new to the show could just accept the premise, since it's stated to be such. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

How is anyone in the book getting their happy ending at all when the Charmings story ends with them putting Emma in a fucking tree trunk portal?  How does it end well for Ruby who has her boyfriend for dinner or for Whale who fails at bringing his brother back?  How are any of the stories in the book happy endings?  Even freakin' Robin loses his wife, she is presumed dead and no matter how much of a douche he is, he still lost the woman he loved, so how is that a happy ending?

 

The most incomprehensible thing is the only person in the book who got their happy ending was flippin' Regina. WTF, show??!

[Amerilla]

Does it bother anyone else that this show uses the same wording and dialogue so repetitively?

 

 

Yes. It's not even fun as a drinking game anymore, because it's too easy and who wants to start the every week of a season with a hangover?

 

"Cleave myself of the dagger", "When the stars align", "She's a monster", "It's True Love", etc. Who the heck says "cleave" anyway? It sounds gross. Even Hook said it. Wouldn't he say something like, "separate" or "relieve"?

 

I get that they're trying to keep a "fairy tale" vibe to the dialog. The problem is a) they don't do it very well, and b) they don't know from subtle. It's sort of like the birdwing-sized eyelashes they glue on poor Emilie and Jen. These are beautiful women. They just need a couple of delicate brush strokes - not a frigging spackle knife.

 

Setting matters as well. I think some of the things that sound good in the Enchanted Forest setting just don't sound right in the Storybrooke setting. ImpRumpel can use the word "cleave" and sound practically Shakespearian. Gold just sounds obnoxious. In a way, it's a testament to the lead actors' skills at creating distinct "voices" and nuances for their fairytale and Storybrooke personas, but the writing no longer adjusts to those differences, even to the limited degree it originally did. 

[Shanna Marie]

Where we see it as total lack of pay-off for the setup we've been watching, they think they're injecting "surprising twists" into the story. But hate to break it to them, they are doing it wrong (as far as I'm concerned).

The thing is, a surprising twist actually requires more set-up than a more straightforward conclusion. A good twist should be a total surprise when looking ahead but should seem inevitable in retrospect. It also has to adhere to the established rules of the world (or give a really good reason why those rules changed), and it should change the status quo, since the twist then becomes part of the canon for that world. So, the first time you watch a storyline, the twist should be a big surprise, but then when you think about what happened, you should feel like "yes, of course." Then if you rewatch the storyline, it should seem like an entirely different story, given what you now know. You do that by setting it up in a way that there's an alternate, more obvious reason for everything that happens and by laying out red herring setups for the more obvious outcome, which should also have alternate reasons.

 

You could have alien vampire bunnies descend from the sky and devour the bad guys, and it would be a total surprise, but it wouldn't be very satisfying unless you'd already established that alien vampire bunnies exist, that they had a beef with the bad guys, that the good guys knew about this and did something to summon the alien vampire bunnies, and then you're forever stuck with a universe that contains alien vampire bunnies, so in future similar situations you have to explain why they don't just call in the alien vampire bunnies. If they just drop out of the sky, solve the problem, and leave without it having anything to do with any of the plot or character arcs, you've got a twist no one cares about and an anticlimactic ending.

 

I actually think that the Anna solution to the Ingrid problem was pretty well set-up and made sense thematically (so much so that I don't even consider it a twist). It would have been nice if Emma and Elsa had played a greater role or even if Emma had turned around and applied what she'd learned from Ingrid and Elsa to helping save Hook and beat Rumple, but looking at the Snow Queen story as a self-contained unit, it worked. They established the message in the bottle and Anna's resemblance to her mother, then they showed that the issue between Anna's mother and Ingrid had a lot to do with her snapping, while Anna's reaction to Ingrid didn't help matters. Since Ingrid's big issue was that people who weren't like her hated and feared her, it pretty much had to be a non-magical person who could reach her by loving her. Emma or Elsa doing something wouldn't have meant the same thing. I don't think it was well executed, but the bones were there to make it work.

 

The "surprise" twist of Regina defeating Zelena with light magic is in the realm of alien vampire bunnies because there was no setup to lead to it. We've never seen a dark magic user being able to switch to light magic and they'd established that people without their hearts couldn't really love. Regina hasn't been shown to really love any of the people Zelena was threatening (Henry wasn't even present in the barn), and while she showed mercy to Zelena, she showed no signs of wanting to love her as a sister. Regina was a snippy bitch the entire time in the Missing Year, so it wasn't like she reformed and only remembered how much she changed when the memory spell was broken. It was just a case of "Oh, hey, I can do light magic! I guess we didn't need the curse to reach Emma, after all. Oops!" And then they forgot that light magic stuff in the next season, when it was revealed that someone able to use the strongest light magic, stronger even than Glinda the Good, was keeping a man imprisoned (for her crimes) all along and still had the first instinct to murder someone who got in her way. All the magic she's used subsequently has looked like her standard-issue Dark stuff.

[regularlyleaded]

The most incomprehensible thing is the only person in the book who got their happy ending was flippin' Regina. WTF, show??!

I know, right! The other thing about Operation: "Stupider than all the Stupid in the universe" that pisses me off (amongst so many other aspects of this turd plot) is that there's no way it ends in a satisfying way for anyone watching.The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

Option 1:

They find the author and the author says "Yup, I control everyone's fate" and a fight ensues to force the writer to give everyone a "happy ending"; which is dumb beyond measure, and as it's been pointed out, contrary to everything they've had the "heroes" fighting for since day one of this show. What's the point of any of this if everything is in the hands of some uber-author that's controlling these people like puppets? What a load of crap. All the characters might as well just sit around eating pie and not doing anything since there's no point to their struggles.

Writers: Hey, audience, you've been wasting your time watching a show about living puppets who aren't actually in control of anything and are just acting out words on a page....just like the actors!

Audience: *Gasp* Ooooh, how meta! </sarcasm> FML.

Option 2:

They find the author and the author says "Regina, you're a certifiably insane, delusional sociopath. I don't control anything and I'm simply recording your actions and choices. You're a villain because you made yourself one. Look at your life, look at your choices! NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HAPPY ENDING BUT YOU!"

(Remaining) Audience Around the World: NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Thank you for wasting our time with the last 22 episodes to tell us what we already knew, Show. Will season 5 of be about discovering if water is wet? Or maybe you'll be looking into the mystery of "Does a bear shit in the woods?" Because all of that sounds absolutely riveting.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Regina hasn't been shown to really love any of the people Zelena was threatening (Henry wasn't even present in the barn), and while she showed mercy to Zelena, she showed no signs of wanting to love her as a sister.

We were supposed to believe it came from her love for Robin. He was in the barn, and Regina locked her eyes on him several times. He was even holding her heart. I don't buy for a second that she truly loved him, but that seemed to be what they were going for.

 

 

The thing is, a surprising twist actually requires more set-up than a more straightforward conclusion. A good twist should be a total surprise when looking ahead but should seem inevitable in retrospect

 

This. The show was very good about twists in S1 and S2. Rumple using the True Love potion for magic instead of saving Henry was a good played out twist. Cora coming to town with Hook was also setup. Even the cure breaking was constructed well. But in S3 and 4A, most of the "twists" mean nothing in the long run. Daddy Pan didn't change the status quo at all imo, and neither did Twisted Sister in 3B. Panry was just a delay to keep the audience on their toes, and the kiss curse was just there so Emma couldn't save the day.

 

Twists that come out of a hat, like alien vampire bunnies, mean absolutely nothing to me. I watch Once mostly for the story, so you can imagine how disappointed I've been for quite some time.

 

 

The most incomprehensible thing is the only person in the book who got their happy ending was flippin' Regina. WTF, show??!

And it turns out... the Author has actually been changing fate to make sure Regina gets her happy ending and no one else! Psh, with all the ridiculous worshipping she gets, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

The "surprise" twist of Regina defeating Zelena with light magic is in the realm of alien vampire bunnies because there was no setup to lead to it.

Hee! Well, IMO, it's not just that one. Almost all of Regina's story lines are in the realm of alien vampire bunnies. Actually, I hereby request that we call any and all Woegina related plots "Attack of the Alien Vampire Bunnies". 

 

...Now I just want to draw an alien vampire bunny and turn it into a sticker so that we can grade every episode with Alien Vampire Bunny stickers. 5 Alien Vampire Bunny stickers will awarded to "Bleeding Through" for giving us the tripe that a literally heartless Regina doesn't need a heart to feel love (retcon #234) and instead feels with her soul (Gah! I fart in your general direction, writers!) And 10 Alien Vampire Bunny Stickers will be awarded to "Kansas" for giving us a still heartless "I regret none of my evil actions because it won me a pony!" Woegina that can suddenly whip light magic out of her butt that's stronger than Glinda the Good Witch (*aggressively rolling my eyes* what an epic load of crap).

Edited December 31, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Shanna Marie]

One other silly thing about Operation Epic Whine: They just came off an entire story arc about a villain whose evil scheme was to rewrite time so she could live the life Regina had because she was so eaten up by jealousy over what Regina had and she didn't that she literally turned green.

 

So the life someone else was so jealous about that she wanted to rewrite time to get it is so awful that Regina has to enlist everyone she knows in an epic quest to make someone give her a better life.

 

We were supposed to believe it came from her love for Robin. He was in the barn, and Regina locked her eyes on him several times. He was even holding her heart. I don't buy for a second that she truly loved him, but that seemed to be what they were going for.

Yeah, but it doesn't work for me as a motivation for suddenly turning her magic from light to dark. She'd had one good makeout session with him, and it's enough to totally change her? Plus, it wasn't like he was the one in immediate danger so she had to find light magic or he'd die. It came across as "now that I have a boyfriend, I feel so happy that I've turned from the Dark Side." And I really hate that. That's one of the worst things about Operation Epic Fail, the idea that having a boyfriend was what it took to turn Regina's magic from dark to light, and not having a boyfriend counts as an unhappy ending that must be rectified. It makes Regina sound like a fourteen-year-old airhead whose life is, like, sooooo over because she doesn't have a boyfriend.

 

Really, why didn't they start the relationship between Robin and Regina during the missing year instead of just having them snark at each other? If they'd become friends and then lovers, and that was a big part of what helped her get over losing Henry, it would have fixed so much. The light magic because of love would have made more sense, as would her despair when she lost him, and then it would have looked less like adultery when Marian came back if they'd really been together already instead of starting to sleep together only after her return. The Robin and Regina relationship rates about ten alien vampire bunnies.

[KingOfHearts]

 

She'd had one good makeout session with him, and it's enough to totally change her?

But it's Pixie Dust True Love™!

 

 

Really, why didn't they start the relationship between Robin and Regina during the missing year instead of just having them snark at each other?

Amen. This was a dumb choice on the wrtiers' part. It seemed like they hated each others guts in the Missing Year, in a snarky sort of way. How am I supposed to believe a relationship will work if they constantly antagonized each other for months with no signs of attraction? That whole year of nothing, then in Storybrooke they heat up after five minutes? Zelena's farmhouse really isn't that romantic.

 

As a side note, why does Outlaw Queen like to choose the grossest places to show their live in? The farmhouse, the crypt, Granny's bathroom hallway... that just spells creepy.

 

 

There is no logic in Operation Mongoose at all. I can see Regina being delusional (she frequently is), but why is everybody else cheerfully buying into it?

I can too. I'd be fine if this was just Regina's psycho quest that happened to randomly impede on the main plot. "The book is why I'm suffering!" is literally one of the worst line this show has ever produced. I agree it's the fact that everyone else is buying into it that makes it so stupid. What's worse is that not only are the Woegina Fan Club buying into it (with their newest member, Emma Swan), but all of 4B is centered around it! It's the main objective of both the protagonists and the Big Bads. It's not some side character plot for Regina and Henry - it's the whole flipping show now!

Edited December 31, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Wow I was away for a week and this thread literally vocalized every problem I have with show and its promise vs. execution! Honestly this forum for discussion is the only reason I'm sticking around for 4B, because from everything that has been spoiled I'm seeing nothing worth tuning in for. Although, thanks to those old "spoiler" interviews we have further proof that they talk out of their ass and we shouldn't believe anything said in those interviews.

 Oh, there are absolutely editing problems and occasionally directing problems, but at the end of the day, the majority of the blame is going to fall onto the script (which is the blueprint the editors and directors follow) and the show runners. Like you mentioned, the quick 23-second scene of Emma restoring Hook's heart in the midseason finale and the scenes preceding and following it are a combination of writing, directing, and editing failures. The progression between the scenes of the Arendelle wedding (which was completely superfluous and should have been cut), the heart restoration scene near the bathrooms, and the scene of Emma and Regina at the bar were written in that order in the script - that series of events falls onto Adam & Eddy. The director just shoots those scenes as he reads them on the page. He doesn't get much of a say in how they're ordered, especially since the creators wrote the episode, and he probably didn't question Adam & Eddy if it would make more sense if he added a shot of Emma walking Hook up to his bedroom or if it'd make more logical sense if the heart was restored in the clock tower.
 

If the writers don't go back and re-watch their own show and record what's technically canon and what is still in cutting-room-floor-limbo, then I give up. They're professionals; that's part of their job description. It drives me batty when I watch interviews from the Paley Center or Comic Con and Adam or Eddy confess to being confused about whether a scene actually aired or not because they weren't sure if it was on the cutting room floor. Excuse me? It's your damn job to know details like that! I absolutely think there's a reason those two decided not to continue doing episode podcasts after Season 1 because it probably started becoming blatantly obvious that they didn't have enough evidence to answer some of the hard-hitting fan questions about the show. The actors I can give a pass for not remembering what's on the cutting floor and what actually made it to screen because they have to act those scenes out numerous times and it's not in their job description to keep the continuity of the show straight. But the fact that it's Season 4 and we still don't have a clear answer from Adam & Eddy about whether Emma knows Regina killed Graham or not just shows how inept they are at keeping track of what goes on.

First addressing the editing problems: I saw fans who "rewrote" the ending of Heroes and Villains by adding a scene (maybe two) that made it 1000% better from an Emma character perspective to go from the heart scene to the shots scene. That's my biggest problem with the show now-the fans seem to be more invested in meaningful payoff than the writers.

 

I think the second point goes hand and hand with the first in that they are now so worried with their plotplotplotplot and what their next big finale/midseason finale "twist" will be they can't be bothered with remembering (or heck are there no interns who you could tasking with rewatching?) what happened in old episodes (like the Cinderella episode from season 1= age of baby thing). That's why I find it so appalling that Graham BEING MURDERED was their midseason finale and they NEVER RESOLVED IT. At times I think they had forgotten it hence their attitude when people called them on it but then Graham gets referenced in numerous episodes in 4A so which is it? I'm not a Graham fan who was outraged by it, but dammit you don't have someone who's set up as a possible love interest for your main heroine who is murdered at the hands of your main villain (who you are setting up as besties now) and never address that! Uggg these writers SUCK.

 

Seeing the lines about Operation Mongoose (aka the Echo Chamber of Lunacy) written out like that makes my brain hurt. Nothing about it makes sense. There’s not even a wee tiny winkle of logic in any of that. Regina (and the writer who came up with this) is too stupid too live.

Has no one in the writers room read what they wrote? Just look at it. Read it. IT’S STUPID. It’s gibberish. I’ve heard more sense coming from stoners. Operation Mongoose is the pinnacle of idiocy. It’s moronic, stupid, dumb, unintelligent, inane, half-witted, imbecilic, puerile, and I’d call it half-baked but it’s not even one-eighth-baked. It’s all the synonyms of the word ‘stupid’ rolled up into one plot line and put on screen. F**********ck. It’s so stupid it makes me angry. Flipping tables isn’t enough anymore.

….I really just can’t even. 

 

One other silly thing about Operation Epic Whine: They just came off an entire story arc about a villain whose evil scheme was to rewrite time so she could live the life Regina had because she was so eaten up by jealousy over what Regina had and she didn't that she literally turned green.

 

So the life someone else was so jealous about that she wanted to rewrite time to get it is so awful that Regina has to enlist everyone she knows in an epic quest to make someone give her a better life.

And this asinine plot that we read and say "WTF" is what they chose to be their season-long arc. Pick ANY OTHER STORYLINE from 4A and it would be a better season-long arc than this. I would rather watch a storyline exploring what happened to Sven while the Frozen gang was gone than this book shit. Oh and thanks to all those who vocalized what I told my husband after the first episode of this season, "ummm at the end of the book Regina is the only one who has a happy ending". The book doesn't keep writing what happens now (whatever the hell the timeline is). It ends with Regina casting the curse and if you listen to her in the pilot "this is my happy ending" so they are now rewriting the premise of everything they built in season 1. Throw in the whole premise of Wicked vs. Evil they loved from 3B where Regina's sister was jealous she got everything and it proves they have the attention span of knats.

 

It cannot be stressed enough that this show holds up like shit upon rewatch or further analysis.

[Camera One]

I'm not a Graham fan who was outraged by it, but dammit you don't have someone who's set up as a possible love interest for your main heroine who is murdered at the hands of your main villain (who you are setting up as besties now) and never address that!

 

I think A&E probably thinks Emma mentioning Graham is "addressing" it.  They'll probably say Emma doesn't need to find out since Regina is a different person now.  She has changed.  

[The Cake is a Pie]

What's interesting is that most tv shows (if not all) have a script supervisor whose main job is to maintain continuity and make sure scenes flow together within episodes and to check continuity across episodes in a season. So either they didn't bother hiring one for this show (doubtful), someone isn't doing their job very well (maybe), or the script supervisor IS pointing out things that don't make sense to the showrunners only to have them shrug and say, eh, who cares (most likely). 

[regularlyleaded]

...Now I just want to draw an alien vampire bunny and turn it into a sticker so that we can grade every episode with Alien Vampire Bunny stickers. 5 Alien Vampire Bunny stickers will awarded to "Bleeding Through" for giving us the tripe that a literally heartless Regina doesn't need a heart to feel love (retcon #234) and instead feels with her soul (Gah! I fart in your general direction, writers!) And 10 Alien Vampire Bunny Stickers will be awarded to "Kansas"

The Robin and Regina relationship rates about ten alien vampire bunnies.

Alien Vampire Bunnies stickers done! Here ya go.  :D

 

(No, I really didn't have anything better to do than to make alien vampire bunnies. It's not like I'm the designated driver tonight. Woohoo!)

Edited January 1, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[YaddaYadda]

I think A&E probably thinks Emma mentioning Graham is "addressing" it.  They'll probably say Emma doesn't need to find out since Regina is a different person now.  She has changed.

They're pretty naive if they think this has been addressed in any shape or form. Regina taking away people's happy endings is all fine and dandy until it comes to her own. Wasn't one of the first lines ever uttered by Regina "I shall take your happy ending even if it's thelast thing I do"???

Also, rewatching New York Serenade is a bit jarring for lack of better word. Emmais still wearing Graham's shoe lace around her wrist. What's the explanation for that seeing as she had no memory of him?

[Mari]

 

Alien Vampire Bunnies stickers done! Here ya go.  :D

 

(No, I really didn't have anything better to do than to make alien vampire bunnies. It's not like I'm the designated driver tonight. Woohoo!)

 

Thank you.  I cannot say this enough.  Thank you.

 

As a side note, why does Outlaw Queen like to choose the grossest places to show their live in? The farmhouse, the crypt, Granny's bathroom hallway... that just spells creepy.

On a show with actual professional writers with actual professional writer skill, that would be foreshadowing that the relationship was creepy and wrong.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

 

On a show with actual professional writers with actual professional writer skill, that would be foreshadowing that the relationship was creepy and wrong.

On any other TV show...

 

* Belle would be signing actual divorce papers.

* Emma would have her own place.

* Emma would have told Regina how absurd Operation Mongoose was.

* Regina would be labeled a psycho.

* Emma and Charming would be going on Father Daughter breakfast dates.

* Someone would have heard the voicemail.

* Marian would be alive to show Regina how wrong she was.

* Regina would have been deeply startled by her mirror flashback.

* The book crap would be just that.

* Elsa and Emma would have gone shopping.

* Snow and Emma would have regular heart to hearts in the loft.

* Rumple would be evil with no excuse.

* There wouldn't be black and white "heroes" and "villains".

[YaddaYadda]

One more

Emma wouldn't feel the need to apologize for doing the right thing. Saving a life shouldn't be wrong.

[KAOS Agent]

The only way to get me remotely interested in Operation Idiocy at this point is if the villains succeed and it becomes a world where the villains always win. And that only because I can't see what exactly would change for Regina. What more can they give her? As Emma pointed out, the heroes lives continue to suck, the main villain has more than she could have ever dreamed of, so how does a world where the villains win make any difference? The author already wrote a book where Regina won, so what would he change? I'd love to know what the writers (and Regina) think it means for her to have a happy ending. What more could she have that she doesn't have already? Seriously, where are they heading with this author plot? Given their ooh shiny! outlook on plotting, I wonder if they've even thought far enough ahead to ask themselves what Regina would force the author to give her. Is there no writer in the writers room that has asked what is the goal here? What does Henry think Regina's happy ending means? If Regina's unhappy with sharing Henry, does it mean that Emma is no longer in his life? Marian makes Regina unhappy. Should she die? Never meet Robin or have Roland? It's utterly nonsensical that they've repeated over and over and over what Regina's doing without ever even beginning to say what that might actually mean other than a vague "happy ending" which she's already gotten several times.

 

I hate any story where some all powerful author is pulling everyone's strings like puppets and they have no choice in whether they are the villain or the hero. I'd still like the writers to explain to me how Emma managed to be a hero without the book's say so. I'd also like some character on the show to ask this question. Someone. Anyone. Maybe some alien vampire bunnies could beam themselves down and ask. They could make that work. The AVBs could be some sort of twist on Watership Down.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Faemonic]

One more

Emma wouldn't feel the need to apologize for doing the right thing. Saving a life shouldn't be wrong.

Totally. In the new Doctor Who, Rose Walker went back in time to save her father's life, and extra-dimensional eldritch abominations swept in to eat up the parallel universe that splintered off from that event because it was aberrant. That's the time to apologize. Marion getting alimony and partial custody of Li'l Ro? Boo-fudging-hoo!

[RadioGirl27]

 

I'd love to know what the writers (and Regina) think it means for her to have a happy ending.

Well, in season 1 was destroying Snow's life, last season was Henry, now it's Robin Hood. Who knows what would be next.  A pony? A bigger mansion? World peace? Her own baby? Oh God, it's going to be that. Next season Regina's happy ending would be her own baby.

[Camera One]

The only way to get me remotely interested in Operation Idiocy at this point is if the villains succeed and it becomes a world where the villains always win.

 

I think there is some hope in that, since that would be "fun" to write and since A&E always have their eye on the endpoint with little attention to how they would get there (like 3B basically written so they could have Emma McFly and Hook do "Back to the Future").  

 

A two-hour finale for 4B where all the fairy tale stories are turned upside down and the villains are victorious (after the Queens of Darkness kidnap the Sorcerer/Author) would be right up their alley.  Somehow Emma and Regina drop into that world because they're wearing magical friendship bracelets and by the end of the hour, they save the Sorcerer/Author, and return things to normal, with Regina doing this for the sake of Emma and her family since she's now fully a hero.

 

The problem is they haven't clarified if the Sorcerer/Author writing the villains a happy ending would change the past.  If the past cannot be changed, they cannot bring back the villains that have already died, to show them enjoying a happy ending.  If the past can be changed, then it just becomes a mess.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

A two-hour finale for 4B where all the fairy tale stories are turned upside down and the villains are victorious (after the Queens of Darkness kidnap the Sorcerer/Author) would be right up their alley.

It would be like Back to the Future Part 2, with a dystopian society built off of it. I would want Regina to be that in adventure because I'd want her to see why villains should not get "happy endings" through their evil ways. 

 

 

The problem is they haven't clarified if the Sorcerer/Author writing the villains a happy ending would change the past.  If the past cannot be changed, they cannot bring back the villains that have already died, to show them enjoying a happy ending. 

I wouldn't doubt that the Author/Sorcerer can change the past. If he can put in portals to the Land Without Magic and bend fate, it's probably in his repertoire. 

 

 

If the past can be changed, then it just becomes a mess.

They should have never introduced Time Travel. It's just messy, period.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[ShadowFacts]

 

Well, in season 1 was destroying Snow's life, last season was Henry, now it's Robin Hood. Who knows what would be next.  A pony? A bigger mansion? World peace? Her own baby? Oh God, it's going to be that. Next season Regina's happy ending would be her own baby.

I think so, what else is there?  We didn't see crypt sex for nothing.  And if not Regina, then Belle for sure.  They're equally soapy, but maybe there's more drama in Rumple getting a do-over baby and custody-battling with Belle.

 

[Camera One]

Well A&E said one of the things they want to explore in addition to "What is a hero?  What is a villain?" is "What is a happy ending?"  Can't wait...

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think so, what else is there?

Competing against Glinda to become the Goodest Witch to Ever Good.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Well A&E said one of the things they want to explore in addition to "What is a hero?  What is a villain?" is "What is a happy ending?"

 

I have zero faith in these writers and their analysis of any of these things, but even a brief glimpse into their thoughts on what a happy ending is should tell me whether I want to continue watching this show. I want to know if they consider that everyone's idea of happy ending is different and  I want specifics here on when this so called happy ending is achieved (life goes on, it doesn't stop when everything's perfect). Also they need to address the notion that their heroes haven't gotten theirs either. If the focus is only on Regina and Rumpel's happy endings, I'll most likely finally quit this show for good.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

That alien vampire bunny sticker is a true work of art. Just how I pictured them. :-)

 

To add to the alien vampire bunny analogy, on this show the problem isn't just that they throw in the alien vampire bunnies as the surprise twist to resolve the arc. The real problem is that they do an entire arc about the good guys' struggle to defeat this round of bad guys, in which their research uncovers the fact that only one particular ninja master in another realm can defeat them. They sacrifice everything to reach this master, only to have him say he can't go with them to come to their aid, but they manage to persuade him to train them. Through much blood, sweat and tears, they struggle and train, feeling like it's hopeless, until finally they have the huge breakthrough. The master sends them back as ninja masters in their own right. And just as they're about to square off against the bad guys, using their newly acquired powers and skills, the alien vampire bunnies show up and one character who's done nothing all arc long but stand around and snark about what everyone else is doing and get knocked on her ass by the bad guys says she just remembered that these bad guys once wronged the alien vampire bunnies, so she sent a signal to them. And she gets hailed as a great hero who saved them all.

 

The writers pat themselves on the back for springing such a huge surprise twist that no one saw coming while the audience goes, "But ... but I wanted to watch the characters actually use those ninja powers they spent all season developing."

[KingOfHearts]

 

Well A&E said one of the things they want to explore in addition to "What is a hero?  What is a villain?" is "What is a happy ending?"

 

I have zero faith in these writers and their analysis of any of these things, but even a brief glimpse into their thoughts on what a happy ending is should tell me whether I want to continue watching this show.

 

I too am interested in what resolution they'll come to when it comes to these questions, and the book's role by extension. I doubt it's 100% a farce, but then if its real, it negates everything A&E have ever said or "taught" on the show. I believe it will only be partially true, with a twist. I'm not sure what that would be, though.

 

So if Regina deserves a happy ending, why not the Queens of Darkness and Rumple? Why can't they have happy endings too? They're goal is just as justifiable as Team Storybrooke's.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Also they need to address the notion that their heroes haven't gotten theirs either. If the focus is only on Regina and Rumpel's happy endings, I'll most likely finally quit this show for good.

I feel the same way. There is way too much focus on the villains--whether guest or regular. The writers have stopped caring about Snowing, and the writing for CS is very uneven. Even when Emma is the focus of an arc, it somehow ends up being about someone else (Regina, Anna, Belle, etc.). The only person whose internal thoughts and motivations were are consistently privy to is Regina. With 4B promising to be OQ heavy, and with three guest villains, it may be the season I quit the show.

[RadioGirl27]

 

So if Regina deserves a happy ending, why not the Queens of Darkness and Rumple? Why can't they have happy endings too? They're goal is just as justifiable as Team Storybrooke's.

Yeah. Is Regina the only villain who deserves a happy ending? What about the rest? Not only the Drag Queens of Darkness and Rumple, what about Zelena, Ingrid, Pan, Cora, George, Blackbeard, Hans? Don't they deserve a happy ending?

And what about Hook? Is he a villain who deserves a happy ending? Or is he a hero now? 

I hate this storyline so much already.

Edited January 1, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Camera One]

Based on those quotes of Operation Mongoose, A&E are saying Regina deserves a happy ending because she is trying to change, and those other characters presumably did not (with the exception of Ingrid and Rumple).  The fallacy is they're saying Regina should get a second chance, when she has already been given at least 20 chances to change from what we've seen, and they still have her decrying that no one is on her side.  Hello Regina, your happy ending is that you didn't die.  Thank your lucky stars and shut up.

[kili]

I'd love to know what the writers (and Regina) think it means for her to have a happy ending.

 

 

There is so much idiocy in this plot idea, I don't even know where to begin.

 

Things that have made Regina unhappy:

1) Cora was a crappy Mom.

2) Daniel, her first "True Love", was killed by her crappy Mom.

3) She chose to walk away from her "soul mate"

4) Snow refused to just die.

5) Regina was forced to kill her father in order to truly make Snow suffer.

6) Owen was a brat and refused to live with her and his dad needed killing

7) Graham remembered he was being raped and had to be killed

8) Henry refused to be gaslit anymore and went and found his real Mom

9) The curse was broken

10) Her boyfriend of two day's wife came back from the dead.

11) Random people called her evil and refused to eat her lasagne.

 

So is her happy ending living in a cursed Storybrooke with her two husbands ("True Love" and "Soul Mate"), her two kids (Owen and Henry), her two loving parents and Graham locked in a room for "Boy Toy" time? The villagers all love her and she wins "Best Lasagne of the Year" every year much to the chagrin of Grannie? Snow dead? How does that all happen? If Daniel never dies, how does her reign of terror...er excuse me...reign of boldness and audaciousness  even begin?

 

If Henry Sr. and Daniel are to remain dead, why don't they get their happy endings? Not evil enough? Can you ever be truly happy knowing your murdered your Dad for selfish reasons (although, I suppose that Regina thinks that it is Snow's selfish reasons for not dying more easily).

Edited January 1, 2015 by kili

[KAOS Agent]

I think there also needs to be some exploration of the idea that some people's happy endings might involve another person losing theirs. If Regina and Robin are together and Marian ends up alone/dead isn't she stripped of her happy ending? Without Emma's intervention wasn't she already stripped of her happy ending by dying? Regina only got to start a relationship with Robin because Marian had been out of his life for years all due to Regina's terrible actions in the first place. 

 

I just need some coherency by the writing team with this storyline and have a feeling it's going to be much like the general views they take on their arc villains. Regina/Rumpel deserve 80 million chances because reasons while everyone else doesn't. Regina is sometimes a decent human being and life has sometimes made her so sad, so she gets all the shinies while Marian has always been a good person, but as a hero, she should just be happy with the crap hand she's been dealt. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think there also needs to be some exploration of the idea that some people's happy endings might involve another person losing theirs. If Regina and Robin are together and Marian ends up alone/dead isn't she stripped of her happy ending?

This is why Regina's notion of what defines a happy ending is asinine. A happy ending is being content with what you have, and that is why it will always escape her and Rumple. Snow is not her joyful self because she has a husband and two children. She's happy because she chooses to be every day, no matter how much crap is thrown at her. Heck, she was still smiling when she was thrown out of her own home or even when she was cursed.

 

Fate's got nothing to do with it. Something is always going to go wrong, whether you're a hero or a villain. Be joyful in hope, and patient in affliction. That's how happy people roll.

Edited January 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Actionmage]

kili? I am petting your post and hugging it and telling it about the alien vampire bunnies.

 

The criticisms we have of the storytelling on the show, and our appreciation of S1, got me to thinking: (sorry)

 

What if S1 was the only way A&E could get ABC/Disney to go along with their bold & audacious plan of telling how the Evil Queen gets her Happy Ending? That as the show got more popular/profitable, the guys were given more freedom, the end result is what we have been watching since season 2? 

 

Nothing really hangs together except a slow turn to Regina-propping by some of the main cast and Regina's No Regrets philosophy. There is no need for a Continuity Person when you are trying to turn a show on it's head! It's Bold! It's Audacious!  ::rolls eyes:: We are one season from a potential syndication deal, so why would anyone bother "nitpicking" the show, except the handful of "nuts" on internet boards who are "obsessive" over "piddly" details, like how magic works or how people react. It's fairy tales, so the "nuts" need to get over what the show has done, quit taking the show so seriously or stop watching if we are so mad.

 

The disconnect between what we see and what they talk about, as well as the dismissive tone towards viewers in interviews, has got to prove that. Maybe?

 

Seeing that we are a half-season from the magical fifth season, A&E can claim that, depending on ratings for 4b, S5 is about Regina finding her Happy Ending and end it however they wish, as long as Regina comes out on top. Their mission? Completed.

[ShadowFacts]

 

This is why Regina's notion of what defines a happy ending is asinine. A happy ending is being content with what you have, and that is why it will always escape her and Rumple. Snow is not her joyful self because she has a husband and two children. She's happy because she chooses to be every day, no matter how much crap is thrown at her. Heck, she was still smiling when she was thrown out of her own home or even when she was cursed.

 

Happiness may be something akin to acceptance of what you have, or more expansively, changing what you can, accepting what you can't, and knowing the difference.  With Regina and Rumple, since they have magic up the kazoo, they should be able to change pretty much anything to their liking, and have done many times.  But it's never enough.  Kili just enumerated Regina's choices that have caused her unhappiness -- she doesn't choose wisely and whines endlessly, so acceptance isn't going to be coming anytime soon.  Although there was some progress on the Marian front, I have to admit.

 

ETA:  In answer to whether one can ever be happy when they've killed the person they love most (or any person) to enact a curse, I don't think so.  No self-defense, no mitigating circumstance whatsoever, just to get vengeance on a little girl's innocent action, no, there can't be peace of mind after that.  In fact, i'd like to see the writers address how she deals with that, maybe she can explain to Henry how/why she killed his grandfather.  On second thought, no, I wouldn't want to hear Henry say that she's changed and is now a hero. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by ShadowFacts

[Camera One]

From the new EW article that Curio posted, Adam Horowitz explained why 3 villains.  The writer of the article begins with the formula that fans have "complained" about, where a villain in introduced, does evil things and then is given a flashback which makes viewers empathize.

 

Adam: What we want to do is hopefully tell new stories for our characters. These villains were very interesting to us, not just because of who they were as villains, but because of the possibilities we saw of how they could connect to our characters and what they could reveal about our characters. What does their arrival mean for Regina? What does their arrival mean for Emma? What does it mean for Snow and Charming? We have some answers to those questions and we’re very excited about it.”

 

I think Adam sees how new characters "connect" to our characters as the same thing as what they "reveal" about the characters.  Maybe they realized that Peter Pan only revealed character moments for Rumple (and to a lesser extent Emma and Hook), while Zelena only revealed character moments for Regina (this is a perfect example of how Zelena was "connected" to Rumple, but actually revealed nothing about him).  

 

Having 3 villains is an easy way out in terms of writing.  It allows them to have variety.  With 3 villains, they can give each villain random connections to various characters.  

 

This was in essence what they did in "Frozen", except they also had one villain and two protagonists - Elsa and Anna, to work with.  It was also three people.  So Anna could be inserted into a Charming and a Belle story, while the Snow Queen inserted into a Rumple and Emma story, and Elsa could be paired with various characters in the current-day.  

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[kili]

What we want to do is hopefully tell new stories for our characters

 

Maybe he can try writing new stories. It would help if lessons learned in one episode could cause the character to change and grow. Then we wouldn't have to have them learn the same stories multiple times (like letting your walls down, accepting yourself and revenge leaves you empty).

 

Hint: Cursing somebody's hand instead of their lips does not constitute a new story.

[HeimrArnadalr]

I know, right! The other thing about Operation: "Stupider than all the Stupid in the universe" that pisses me off (amongst so many other aspects of this turd plot) is that there's no way it ends in a satisfying way for anyone watching.The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

Option 1:

They find the author and the author says "Yup, I control everyone's fate" and a fight ensues to force the writer to give everyone a "happy ending"; which is dumb beyond measure, and as it's been pointed out, contrary to everything they've had the "heroes" fighting for since day one of this show. What's the point of any of this if everything is in the hands of some uber-author that's controlling these people like puppets? What a load of crap. All the characters might as well just sit around eating pie and not doing anything since there's no point to their struggles.

Writers: Hey, audience, you've been wasting your time watching a show about living puppets who aren't actually in control of anything and are just acting out words on a page....just like the actors!

Audience: *Gasp* Ooooh, how meta! </sarcasm> FML.

Option 2:

They find the author and the author says "Regina, you're a certifiably insane, delusional sociopath. I don't control anything and I'm simply recording your actions and choices. You're a villain because you made yourself one. Look at your life, look at your choices! NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HAPPY ENDING BUT YOU!"

(Remaining) Audience Around the World: NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Thank you for wasting our time with the last 22 episodes to tell us what we already knew, Show. Will season 5 of be about discovering if water is wet? Or maybe you'll be looking into the mystery of "Does a bear shit in the woods?" Because all of that sounds absolutely riveting.

There's one problem with Option 1: If the Author does control everyone's fates, he's certainly not going to let Regina & co. force him to do anything. All he has to do is write that their search failed and that's that. So for this plot to happen at all Option 2 is the only credible ending, which is terrible for the reasons you've already pointed out.

 

I have this feeling that the writers of the show are going with Option 1, though, with how they're having the villains and the heroes and Regina going after the Author.

[Camera One]

Given the writers' pattern, the Sorcerer/Author will be easily found and he/she will be powerless/otherwise useless (cue The Apprentice, Glinda and the Blue Fairy).  The Queens of Darkness will succeed to an extent.  Either they will be killed but their nefarious plot lives on (eg. Zelena, Peter Pan), or they will succeed in their plot and die after (eg. Snow Queen).

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[regularlyleaded]

There's one problem with Option 1: If the Author does control everyone's fates, he's certainly not going to let Regina & co. force him to do anything. All he has to do is write that their search failed and that's that. 

Yes, I realize this. And in fact Option 1 is far more reaching than that. If there is an uber-author then he/she should have already written all these characters to be unaware of his/her existence, and therefore the characters shouldn't even be looking for him/her. If their (the character's) fate is being entirely controlled by an external being then the idea of free will is moot. What kind of uber-author makes his/her puppets aware of the puppet-master's existence? It's not like this is going to amusingly end like in the play "Into The Woods" where the story narrator suddenly gets sucked into the story himself and gets character treatment. It's this show and these writers. They're simply not that clever.

 

My point (in presenting those options) was to say, the plot line of Operation Stupid is not going to end in any way that will be satisfying for the audience, no matter how you slice it (it fails on so many levels of logic and is truly irrational). Even if the author doesn't exist at all and the book is merely an enchanted item that records history, the result is nonetheless similar to Option 2 where we've been dragged through 22 episodes of story so that homicidal villains can have the Anvil of Truth dropped on their heads for the billionth time -- that they are villains because of their choices and actions, and no one else's (and as usual, they'll keep right on not learning anything from this)

Edited January 2, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Shanna Marie]

I think there also needs to be some exploration of the idea that some people's happy endings might involve another person losing theirs. If Regina and Robin are together and Marian ends up alone/dead isn't she stripped of her happy ending? Without Emma's intervention wasn't she already stripped of her happy ending by dying? Regina only got to start a relationship with Robin because Marian had been out of his life for years all due to Regina's terrible actions in the first place.

There's absolutely no way out of this mess while going with the concept that anyone "deserves" a happy ending based on their actions. Robin and Marian are heroes and their lives suck now, worse than Regina's, since she at least seems to have a home and a source of money.

 

The really crazy thing is that even within the same episode they keep showing how little this makes sense. According to the book and that page showing Marian and Robin's wedding that Regina kept crying over, Robin and Marian got their happy ending. And yet now they're exiled to a strange world, stuck with each other when they both know he's in love with someone else (and that's after she was imprisoned by the Evil Queen and they were separated from each other). The book doesn't tell the whole story, obviously. So if the book shows them having a happy ending and this is what happens to them, then why does Regina think the book has anything to do with what's happening to her in the present?

 

In answer to whether one can ever be happy when they've killed the person they love most (or any person) to enact a curse, I don't think so.  No self-defense, no mitigating circumstance whatsoever, just to get vengeance on a little girl's innocent action, no, there can't be peace of mind after that.

And that's another issue with this stupid "I deserve a happy ending, so now let's all go on a quest to find the author so I can get one" plot. They made it very clear that Regina would always have a hole in her heart if she cast this curse. Has she not considered that this action may be a reason she can't have a happy ending, since she did something she knew would keep her from really having love? I just wish they'd be willing to make consequences stick. She cast the curse knowing the cost, then went and found a son to replace her dead father and then she gets to find a true love who's only separated from her because his wife's life got saved. Then she cast the curse undoing, with Henry supposedly the cost. She had to give him up forever. But she got him back a year later and everything's peachy, he's totally on her side and even believes the book was wrong about the evil actions it depicted (yeah, the same kid who tracked down his birth mother because he'd realized his adoptive mother was the Evil Queen and that she was continuing to do evil things, and the same kid who was the only person who figured out that Regina murdered Graham).

 

Poor Henry, half his grandparents have been murdered by his other grandparents/step-grandparents/whatever. One grandmother murdered by his grandfather, one great-grandfather murdered by his adoptive mother/step-great grandmother, another great-grandmother murdered by his adoptive grandmother, his adoptive grandfather murdered by his adoptive mother.

[Writing Wrongs]

Have A&E said what the end goal is for the show or how long they want it to go? I've started re-watching Lost and if I remember right, I think it may have had a set plan on how long and how it was going to end. I'm hoping Once gets at least 5 years. Any more is stretching it.

[Camera One]

On "Lost", it was during 3A that the writers negotiated an end-date with ABC, and they decided on about 40 more episodes.  I think Damon L and Carlton C. were thinking of a total of 5 regular-length seasons, and ABC decided to go for a total of six seasons, each season slightly shorter.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/01/lost_producers_.html

 

In some ways, though, I think "Lost" needed a specified end-date a lot more than "Once Upon a Time".  Even in Season 4 of "Lost", there were still a ton of unanswered questions, including the huge ones about the nature of the island and if there was a reason the survivors ended up there.  There were still separated couples, secrets yet to be revealed, and many of the characters still had somewhere to go.  

 

"Once Upon a Time" has pretty much answered the core questions along the way (and any remaining questions have been dropped).  Character-wise, all the main characters have remained mostly static (except Regina and Rumple, who have been erratic). So much focus is on external factors and characters that "Once" can continue to hobble along due to that, since the writers clearly have no interest in actually delving into the heroes' personalities and relationships.  If "Once" wanted to stretch things along, they could have spent an entire half-season on the ramifications from "Going Home", but they clearly did not and had no interest to.  They seem to plan half-season by half-season, which are often completely unrelated to one another.

 

And frankly, I think "Lost" totally squandered its end-date, and it did little to nothing to creating a satisfying ending, character-wise, or even mythology-wise.   

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

Or was the "Joan" alias just meant as an Easter egg wink-wink reference to the movie, without any implication that Anna actually was referring to Joan of Arc?

The writers generally don't care about details like this. It's my conspiracy theory that the reason there is so much plot is that they want us to quickly forget certain elements so we don't think about them too hard. The worldbuilding is closer to a children's story than high fantasy. They want you to eat their cake without actually putting in the effort to bake it, then finish fast enough to where you don't notice all the missing ingredients. Before you can wonder the ethics of Rumple killing Zelena, we've already jumped into a time travel adventure then Frozen, for example.

 

In classic fairy tales, there are many contrivances and backstories that are left unexplained. At first I thought Once was there to fill in those holes with twists on why things are the way they are, like why the Evil Queen hates Snow White or how Jiminy was a talking cricket. Now the show throws so many random elements and unanswered questions in that a lot of the needed groundwork vanishes, like magic rules and worldbuilding. The current half-season formula really encourages this.

 

The writers probably don't want to us to think that the Author is in charge of all fate. They only want us to focus on "villains never win". Their vision gets very narrow to avoid addressing critical issues. They'll put in time travel, but they'll tell us not to mind the paradoxes. They'll show what's eating Emma, but it's only to push Ingrid's plans forward. It's all very much "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

[Camera One]

They want you to eat their cake without actually putting in the effort to bake it, then finish fast enough to where you don't notice all the missing ingredients.

 

 

 

Their vision gets very narrow to avoid addressing critical issues. They'll put in time travel, but they'll tell us not to mind the paradoxes.

 

Well said.  They'll open a can of worms, but only insist you look at one of the worms, and ignore all the other ones, even though there are usually multiple consequences on plot, world-building and character development.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Camera One