S01.E07: 7

[EtheltoTillie]

I guess I'm confused about their filming things in the "future," e.g., 2016.  Seems an unusual thing for TV to do when it's a realistic story and not a time travel story.

[Boundary]

The problem with the spouses' POV is that we'd retreading the same timeline, it'll feel redundant if nothing "new new" is told. As for the timeline, I think it reminds me of How I Met Your Mother, which takes place essentially in the past, they filmed future scenes but kept them locked up for 8 years. This show is showing us snippets of those future scenes. If we get to the third season, our timeline will have caught up with the future timeline.

[GeminiDancer]

 

Regarding the drowning death of Gabriel. There's never been any hint at who was responsible. There's always someone responsible when a four year old drowns. My theory is that Cole was teaching Gabriel to either fish or surf and he drowned on Cole's watch. I think that may be a reason that Alison put up a psychological wall between them, because even though it was an accidental death, she might blame Cole and resent him for it.

 

I think that the show hints at Alison being present for Gabriel's death. She's can't swim and he drowned. Cole said that he and Ma Lockhart had to bathe her when she was afraid to go in the water. Ma Lockhart also implied that if she had more help, Gabriel would have been alive.

 

I think Alison's anger at Cole has to do with his seemingly easy ability to move on from the grief, all the while not realizing that he was containing his own grief to help Alison through hers.

Edited November 26, 2014 by GeminiDancer

[Maximona]

 

I think Alison's anger at Cole has to do with his seemingly easy ability to move on from the grief, all the while not realizing that he was containing his own grief to help Alison through hers.

 

 

I think her anger has to do with the fact that she's fallen out of love with him.  Presumably falling in love and marrying him was what kept Alison in Montauk.  But I don't think she likes Montauk.  When she was walking up the subway stairs that first moment in Brooklyn, she gave a little smile and for a split second, she looked... happy.  She doesn't look happy very often.  I think she was overjoyed to have exceeded escape velocity for whatever reason.

 

Her idiot friend, of course, is fixated on the True Romance aspect of Alison's world, and that makes Alison instantly unhappy again.

 

I don't like Cole at all.  On my planet, enlisting your wife as a corner boy in the family coke business is a far greater transgression than a little friendly (or unfriendly) messing around between the sheets.  Not to mention all those innumerable and horrible Lockhart family breakfasts poor Alison had to suffer through.

 

 

[GeminiDancer]

She was pretty clear that her anger had to do with Cole's ability to "move on" from Gabriel's death. She said that to Noah in an earlier episode.

 

We know that they also married young, and she is more like her mother than she's willing to admit. She's trapped in Montauk, and Noah was something new for her. With regards to the coke dealing, Alison has much of a choice being involved as Cole does. She doesn't get a pass from me for that.

[Maximona]

Nope, I don't think she does have a choice about dealing coke.  Not with the full weight of Ma Lockhart and all that testosterone bearing down on her.  Uh uh.  It's worst than peer pressure in high school.  

 

Maybe she is mad at Cole because he can go on living.  If she were still in love with him, she'd find that trait charming.  But she's not.

 

I find it interesting, too, that a lot of the reactions people on this board seem to be having to the characters in this TV show seem to be based on their like or dislike of the actors playing the roles.  (Does that mean the casting director did a great job?)  I, for example, like Ruth Wilson a lot, so I feel myself ... well.  Not identifying with her.  But definitely rooting for her.

[Boundary]

I'm splitting the difference here. I think Alison should take her share of responsibility for dealing in drugs. She knew the potential consequences but didn't care, because of grief anything will be a relief compared to losing Gabriel. Having said that, she is angry at Cole not because he's able to move on (clearly not true) or because he was responsible (clearly not true in a criminal negligence sense - no one's in jail); she's angry at Cole because he's alive and their son is dead. A completely irrational feeling but one she feels nonetheless. She's still with him even though she's fallen out of love with him because it'll feel like she's punishing him unfairly. Those completely opposing feelings exist simultaneously within her: to blame Cole and not to blame Cole. (It made more sense in my head ...)

Edited November 27, 2014 by Boundary

[Higgs]

I think her anger has to do with the fact that she's fallen out of love with him. ... On my planet, enlisting your wife as a corner boy in the family coke business is a far greater transgression than a little friendly (or unfriendly) messing around between the sheets. Not to mention all those innumerable and horrible Lockhart family breakfasts poor Alison had to suffer through.

With the usual disclaimer that I have no idea what the terms mean, Alison, as is quite normal, probably isn't "in love" with her long-time husband, but she may very well still "love" him. That wouldn't prevent her from being "in love" with Noah. (The same applies to Noah vis a vis Helen.)

Alison: "For Christ's sake, Cole, the whole town knew [that they deal coke]!"

We don't know if, like Carmela Soprano, Alison was well aware of her boyfriend's business before she married him.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Higgs

[JenE4]

I guess I'm confused about their filming things in the "future," e.g., 2016. Seems an unusual thing for TV to do when it's a realistic story and not a time travel story.

It will be the "present" by the time the series ends. Or, presumably some point point we'll catch up to it and proceed from there to resolve the murder mystery. It makes sense to me because if this show goes three seasons but only covers a certain period of time in the past and future, then the time line will never be "right now." It's not like 90210 that started off with a new school year every fall premiere, you know?

[Indi]

She was pretty clear that her anger had to do with Cole's ability to "move on" from Gabriel's death. She said that to Noah in an earlier episode.

 

We know that they also married young, and she is more like her mother than she's willing to admit. She's trapped in Montauk, and Noah was something new for her. With regards to the coke dealing, Alison has much of a choice being involved as Cole does. She doesn't get a pass from me for that.

 

Yeah, she's as guilty as Cole, IMO. In the previous episode she didn't seem to have a guilty conscience about it at all. She just didn't care.

 

I don't think she was ever forced to do it. Cole doesn't seem to be able to make her do anything against her will and his mother only seems to be able to manipulate Alison through guilt trips, not actually force her to do anything.

 

Both Cole and Alison are really shitty people.

[JudyObscure]

Yeah, she's as guilty as Cole, IMO. In the previous episode she didn't seem to have a guilty conscience about it at all. She just didn't care.

 

I don't think she was ever forced to do it. Cole doesn't seem to be able to make her do anything against her will and his mother only seems to be able to manipulate Alison through guilt trips, not actually force her to do anything.

 

Both Cole and Alison are really shitty people.

For some reason, within a show like this, I seem to forget the drug dealing from one episode to the next and just see sad, grieving parents in pain.  But you are so right, Indi.   In real life, yes, they are shitty people.  They might not be selling on play grounds but they are causing parents to lose their jobs or become neglectful.  They are selling to teens who will sell on playgrounds. In one way or another  they are hurting children, children just like Gabriel.

 

When it was first discussed around that lovely, big Walton's style,, family table.  Allison may have spoken against it, but at some point she not only agreed to let it happen, but was willing to take part in it. A woman who can go out at night without telling her husband where she's going and doesn't feel an explanation is required when caught in a lie about staying home, is not a woman who is too frightened of her husband to stand her ground on a huge issue like this.

[Higgs]

Both Cole and Alison are really shitty people.

Cole and Alison are people who do a shitty thing. However, in scientifically objective terms, for resultant death and destruction they don't hold a candle to the guys and gals of "Mad Men" who push nicotine and alcohol, and it's highly likely that the number of people who get drunk at "The End" and die and kill in car accidents on the way home exceed by an order of magnitude those who suffer permanent harm from Lockhart coke. (And while we're looking for characters who are not up to our own high moral standards, let us not forget Noah, who, by risking the ruin of a much better-than-average marriage, was placing his two youngest children in psychological jeopardy. Thank goodness we have Helen's pure heart and mind to set an example.) But I digress.

In literature, the author can tell us everything that drives the characters. In film, a great deal is left to the discretion of the viewer. We all have a choice to make in "The Affair". Alison and Noah can be reduced to horny, self-centered, ungrateful, "shitty" adulterers, or viewed as flawed and complex individuals (as are their spouses) who find some needed solace and fulfillment in each other, necessary in Alison's case to be able to stay in her marriage, as possibly Cole understood in being able to forgive her. It's obvious that the second option is my personal deconstruction of the story, and without it Ruth Wilson could not bring me (almost) to tears and I could return to worrying about whether or not Rachel Berry makes it back to Broadway (Matthew 7:1).

Happy Thanksgiving.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Higgs

[WaltersHair]

I find the two couples...meh. The one I really dislike is Mah Barker. Making your sons so enamored of the Ranch, they'd risk everything and everyone to keep it? Ouch.

And I freakin' love Mare Winningham. I mean, she was in the original Brat Pack.

[JudyObscure]

Higgs quote:

(Matthew 7:1)

 

Since you're throwing scripture at Indi and me: 

 

First, calling someone "shitty," is not the same as casting judgment and consigning them to Hell.  It's remembering that, even though we've said we are sympathetic to their grief, the drug trade has far reaching damage to millions of people including things like 43 dead college students in Mexico.  Of course, there are worse things, but we weren't running a comparison study, just thinking about that one decision the Lockhart family made. 

 

Second:  When Jesus said not to judge people, I don't think he was talking about criticizing fictional characters written for TV shows.  Judging real people on message boards?  Maybe.

[Higgs]

The "Matthew 7:1" reference was placed before the period in a sentence which I ended by copping to watching "Glee". It was an ironic self-deprecating joke. I apologize for any confusion and distress it may have caused.

[JudyObscure]

Higgs:  I see. I apologize too then. I thought the Bible verse went with the preceding two paragraphs and not the final  reference to Rachel Berry, of whom I never heard.

 

I do agree that we all have choices as to how we view these characters but, I at least, am not speaking about the entire, complex personality in every post.  I can feel moved by both Cole and Allison when they talk about their son and irritated a few minutes later when they start trying to justify the drugs. An actress like Mare Winningham can give me cold chills one minute and win my sympathy the next when I think about how much her character cares about her family.

 

That's  what I like about the show and the conversations we all have about it.  All of the protagonists are fully developed and even someone as "perfect," as Helen has flaws.  She is the sort of woman I would like to have as a friend, but realize she probably wouldn't want to be friends with me. I identify with her more than any of the other characters and her reaction to hearing about the affair was almost exactly how I think I would react, but, at other times, I see that little bit of superiority slipping out and, at those times I don't like her. 

 

So, I think before we can accuse people of not understanding the complexity of the characters we would need to look at all of their posts and put them together.  A sentence after a single episode about one event or remark doesn't represent  a complete character analysis and isn't meant to.

[jeansheridan]

I'm enjoying this forum group a lot.  It's adding a lot to the show for me. 

 

One thing that interests me in the show is how it explores "bad actions" and guilt.  The affair is the obvious main action, but there's also the drug dealing.  And as many mistakes as Noah has made, I do think his reaction was authentic and correct.  He was repulsed by it.  As much as I like Joshua Jackson as a performer (he just seems innately nice!), his utter lack of guilt about dealing drugs kind of startles me.  He's so relaxed about it.  And practical.  Clearly their operation has gone on for quite some time, they're so at ease with the details.  I don't think anyone in that family really feels guilty. I think Allison is a bit ashamed at being caught by Noah and she did seem a bit nervous doing the delivery to Scotty, but she seems to dislike Scotty (and why not ...slimy!).

 

But Noah's family isn't much better.  The daughter isn't all that repentant for being a bully.  The son can't explain why he let the horse go and he doesn't seem to feel any guilt at all.  He's a bit of a creepy blank really.  Their grandfather has no guilt over anything--his own affair, not giving his wife credit, etc ...

 

So who does feel guilt?  I would argue Noah.  He does have panic attack.  His confession was entire and full (Dude, I couldn't believe he admited to 8 weeks!  Gah!)

Helen's reaction was nuanced to the point I'm suspicious of her.  I know she's allegedly a WASP, but I can't believe things weren't thrown.  Or that he didn't sleep on the sofa. 

 

Oh and I did love seeing Noah's entire family (except fo the baby) take such glee in their grandparents' fight.  It fits with their general uncaring natures.  I think in another language there's a great word for taking pleasure in a another person's setback.    I kind of felt like the whole family sort of enjoyed seeing their grandfather lose it.  That was one of the few times they felt like a uniform family to me.  That and when they hugged their father after his scare.  That actually seemed geniune to me.  The threat of losing dad is a very scary thing. 

Edited November 30, 2014 by jeansheridan

[Bcharmer]

 

I think in another language there's a great word for taking pleasure in a another person's setback.

 

Schadenfreude?

[jeansheridan]

Bcharmer!  Thank you!  Schadenfreude is the word I wanted. 

[Bcharmer]

It's a good'n!  :)

[LilaFowler]

Yay, a forum for this show.  I just discovered The Affair and binged watched to catch up.  Dammit at there not being a new episode tonight.

 

There have been a couple of posts about the issue of time.  So, the affair happened in the present, and the police interviews are in the future?  Honestly, the entire time I was watching the show, I thought the affair was a couple of years ago and the interviews were in the present.  But I now remember that Allison told Noah that her son had died two years ago, and that the date on his tombstone was 2012.  Okay, but still.  Maddening.

 

Max.  Why was he so against Noah confessing to Helen?  Surely a man who can just wave away $10k and has a nice corner office in the sky knows that someone like Oscar is going to continue the blackmail indefinitely.  Is he going to bankroll that, too?  Something is fishy with him.  Maybe he is having an affair with Helen and thinks that if Noah confesses, Helen will confess, too?  I've always found it odd that Whitney thought that Helen was the one having the affair, when it seemed like Noah was the one who was always away from the house.  Where was Helen?  What was she doing?  A troubled teen confronting a parent about having an affair is no small thing, especially since Helen was the more "sympathetic" parent in regards to the whole bullying thing.  So I'm assuming Whitney had her reasons for thinking that.

 

Which leads me to my next point:  the detective asking The End receptionist if there was a Solloway in the computer records.  We all think he meant Noah, but he could have been investigating Helen, too.  Maybe Helen joking about finding a pool boy was more than a joke?  Maybe she was Scotty's brunette?

 

The Store Visit: it was from Allison's POV so she could have just been feeling guilty about seeing her lover's wife and remembering her tone as accusing, but I don't know.  Helen is no dummy and she probably suspected an affair (or a fling) before Noah actually confessed.  The woman grew up with infidelity in the house, she probably recognized the signs.  Not to mention, a day or two prior Max had confirmed that Noah was MIA after they'd partied together and that "what's her name" had been there, too.  Not to mention how agitated Noah had gotten when Max expressed interest in Allison.  Helen had also wondered aloud if Allison was flirting with Noah at her parents' party.  And then for Allison to randomly show up at her store in Brooklyn the day after they get back?  Too many coincidences.

 

I enjoy this show immensely (wouldn't have had a marathon otherwise) but sorting out even the most minor details is frustrating.  I can't help thinking that this show would be better if it had been told straight up. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by JacqaloonLaurita

[GeminiDancer]

The timeline is that the affair happens in the present, and the investigation is in the future.

 

I think Max didn't want Noah to tell Helen because he didn't want Noah to ruin his marriage to Helen. Max was distraught at his own marriage ending, and he didn't want to see his friend suffer the same fate. At least for this season, we won't know what Helen was doing because it's all Noah's recollection. If he's with Alison, he wouldn't know if Helen was chilling at home or screwing the pool boy. I think it's always easy to blame the woman when a marriage goes wrong, that it's her fault that he has a wandering eye in the first place. Alison was the one who tempted him into the affair. It's never his fault. He was feeling weak.

 

I think it's established that he's not investigating Helen, mostly because he's been reading Noah's book and got it all marked up with post-its. We shall see, though.

[Boundary]

I enjoy this show immensely (wouldn't have had a marathon otherwise) but sorting out even the most minor details is frustrating.  I can't help thinking that this show would be better if it had been told straight up. 

 

Nah, sorting out the minor details is a major part of the fun during the week whilst waiting for the next episode. You've been on the binge, just wait till you have had time to ponder the details. Soon you'll be writing essays, no wait ....

 

Welcome to the forum!

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boundary

[JudyObscure]

JL quote:

Maybe [Max] is having an affair with Helen and thinks that if Noah confesses, Helen will confess, too?  I've always found it odd that Whitney thought that Helen was the one having the affair, when it seemed like Noah was the one who was always away from the house.

My thoughts on this were like GeminiDancer's, that Max really cares about Helen and doesn't want to see her hurt, and I thought Whitney had misinterpreted the joking around Max and Helen did at the party as something real.  Children don't always understand that sort of thing.

 

However!  I really like your idea that Helen is having an affair herself!  If we ever get a  "Helen's Point of View,"  series that would make it extremely interesting.

[Boundary]

I agree that Whitney misinterpreted Max and Helen's kiss, besides if they did kiss like that in front of the family it wouldn't be real would it? I don't think Helen's having an affair herself, for me it wouldn't add up. From what we've seen she's content in her relationship. I'll take the point that even Noah wasn't discontent in the relationship but he had other pressures that, on the surface, don't apply to Helen. From a dramatic point of view, it turns their marriage into a mess, which takes away the guilt and struggle that Noah should have as a consequence of cheating. 

[jrlr]

I agree that Whitney misinterpreted Max and Helen's kiss, besides if they did kiss like that in front of the family it wouldn't be real would it? I don't think Helen's having an affair herself, for me it wouldn't add up. From what we've seen she's content in her relationship. I'll take the point that even Noah wasn't discontent in the relationship but he had other pressures that, on the surface, don't apply to Helen. From a dramatic point of view, it turns their marriage into a mess, which takes away the guilt and struggle that Noah should have as a consequence of cheating. 

Agree completely.  It doesn't make sense that Helen would have an affair to me.  She's got four kids, she owns a store and she is upset that Noah isn't having sex with her.  It's that old (Freudian? Jungian?) thing about marrying your own parent.  Helen probably thought Noah was about as far away - morally - from her father as it's possible to get.  And then, blam! She learns he's a cheater, too.  

 

Alison is MUCH more of a mess than anyone else here, and I would guess that her obvious darkness (as Noah calls it) is a big part of her attraction.  Helen seems to have it all together, from money to calm temperament to kids, store and seemingly happy marriage.  She doesn't really seem to lack or need anything.  Alison is the polar opposite, and I could see a man like Noah (who has been pretty effectively emasculated, especially in Montauk) being strongly attracted to a woman who he thinks needs him.

[stillshimpy]

You know, I wonder if it's going to turn out that Alison is working as a Nanny in the city?   Weird thing to wonder, I know, but we know at one point she refers to having to pick up "[her] kid"?  She was a pediatric nurse, wasn't she?  Seems like she'd be able to get a Nanny job fairly easily.  

 

Just that might make more sense than the investigation taking place so far into the future that Alison has had time to produce a child.  We saw the detective sort of wandering around the Island in this episode, looking a strange roadside planter and then going out to The End to ask about Noah's name on the registry, all as if it would have occurred within a short enough time period for pictures of that planter to matter.  

 

Anyway, I have read the thread.  I don't take any issue with Helen being so condescending and snobby about Alison's position in life.  I don't even know that it really has to do with Helen being a snob, although it may, I think it's actually fairly human and natural response for someone to take a very dim view of, and look down upon the person who is screwing your spouse....despite that person knowing your spouse is married, with children.   Alison could have been a blue blood to the core and I think Helen still would have said something about Alison that would have deemed her trashy.  It's just human nature to redirect that disdain and anger towards someone other than your spouse, who is really the person who deserves it in a situation involving infidelity.  

 

Just saying, it's not just "She's a WASP" at play, I don't think.  I think Noah is the father of their four children and that makes it a little more difficult to not want to try and salvage the relationship.  Safer to imply and state that Alison is trash, rather than calling Noah human refuse.  She's sort of stuck with Noah for at least a bit.  

 

But anyway, I don't think it's quite that simple, that whoever cheats is scum.  I don't think Noah really understands why he cheated, but I think Alison does.  She needed a life-preserver of some kind and Noah seemed  to represent that.  

 

Going to Helen's store was sad, desperate and also the actions of a person who wanted Noah to be busted along with her.  You don't go and hang around the place run by your paramour's wife unless you're hoping to start something.  

 

I find the two couples...meh. The one I really dislike is Mah Barker. Making your sons so enamored of the Ranch, they'd risk everything and everyone to keep it? Ouch.

 

And I freakin' love Mare Winningham.

 

Finally that scene in the hospital and during the "Cherry discovers the note" scene explained why they cast Mare Winningham.  I think there's supposed to be a lot more menace to Cherry than would first appear to be the case.  Her son is lying in a hospital bed, insanely lucky that drug-dealers -- not known for their under-reactions -- opted out of outright murdering him and using his head in some "we deliver a message with this" manner.   That's when she's objecting to getting out of the entire thing?  

 

Cherry was scary in the "use a sharper knife" exchange, although again, I don't really take a bunch of issue with being pissed off to that extent.  I still don't think it was Cole that was with Gabriel when he drowned.  I also still don't think that Alison is unable to swim.  Unable to bear being in the water now, clearly, but I think she's so terrified of the water and can only do things like watch Cole surf because Gabriel was with Alison and she wasn't a strong enough swimmer to save him from an undertow.  

 

Cherry's blazing anger about "after all we've done for you" and feeling free to just ORDER Alison to stay suggests to me that Alison was responsible for Gabriel's death and that Alison's anger with Cole isn't about allowing Gabriel to die, but for a) not hating her over it (it can be difficult to be forgiven too) b) being able to continue living and acting like he had a reason too.  But mostly I think her anger is because he kept loving her after and that having an affair with Noah was an attempt to force him to stop.  

 

It's always bothered me that no matter whose version is closer to the truth, Alison was FAR TOO obvious for a woman every local would know.  

 

I don't think Cole actually went to the city believing that Alison had told someone who then knew where the cocaine was, I think he had to know who Noah was regardless.  

 

Noah continuing to present Alison as a predatory creature also just rings of self-justification.  

 

As for Helen's reaction, or lack thereof,  I think that she is also from a class of people where infidelity is often ...if not expected...rather common.  Her mother saying she wouldn't leave and just allow her husband to shack up with his mistress.  This weird open-secret of infidelity for the very rich.  That's Helen's template for how one reacts to infidelity.  

 

As for Max telling Noah not to unburden his soul and clear his conscience, I'm fairly certain we're to take it that Max did that and it was the thing that ended with him being a divorced forty-year-old coming out to see his married friends on Montauk and having to borrow cash to cover some blow.   

[Milburn Stone]

How many penetrating insights can you cram into one post, stillshimpy? That one was amazing. Thank you.

[stillshimpy]

Thanks, Milburn, since I am having one of those mornings when I am swiftly becoming convinced that I suffered some hyper-specific and irreparable form of brain damage , in some manner I completely can't remember,  that is causing me to be a complete ditz?  I really appreciate that in particular today :-)  

[Higgs]

Just that might make more sense than the investigation taking place so far into the future that Alison has had time to produce a child.

Time lapse from the affair to the investigation =

Trevor's age when writing a school paper (on the subject of Huck Finn's racism) sufficiently complex as to require a thesis statement - Trevor's age in the year of the affair

> Maximum (Nine month human gestation period plus age before infant would be left with a sitter; time to apply for and be granted adoption; time to meet and marry another man who already had a child; time to plan and execute the kidnapping of a stranger's child;

time for Noah and Helen to separate/divorce;

time for Noah's second novel to be written, edited, published, and successful enough that Noah has developed the arrogance required to call the detective interrogating him on a murder case an "asshole" in response to a seemingly innocuous question)

One thing that strikes me about the adulterous pair at the time of the investigation is that, regardless of whatever their career/financial/marital/child-rearing successes, neither appears happy. Noah has become something like his detested father-in-law, and Alison acts as agitated as someone who might be managing drug distribution in Bushwick for the Brighton Beach Russian mob.

How did they get there? Will there be an act 3, after the murder case is solved?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Higgs

[Boundary]

I too think sufficient time has passed. For some reason I have 3 years in my mind's eye, I have no proof for that whatsoever and I don't know if that is enough to cover Higgs' events, especially Trevors' education and Alison's kid's age. But if so,why would the detective be asking about careful details from a 3 year old affair? Noah thought it was accident; Alison wants the killer caught but you get a sense that it's not exactly her priority; and the murder scene doesn't yellow police tape around it anymore, in fact it looks like it's been repaired. I think this detective is investigating a cold case.

[Higgs]

...why would the detective be asking about careful details from a 3 year old affair? Noah thought it was accident; Alison wants the killer caught but you get a sense that it's not exactly her priority; and the murder scene doesn't yellow police tape around it anymore, in fact it looks like it's been repaired. I think this detective is investigating a cold case.

The case is quite warm. The detective is with the Suffolk County Police (as can be seen on the inscription above the entrance when Alison goes outside for a cigarette break), not with a department in a town nearby to Montauk. He's taken over the case because he doesn't "believe in accidents", as the untrustworthy local authorities were (too) quick to label Scotty's death. (There would never have been a "murder" scene.) Not knowing the territory, and suspecting foul play, he says that he's interviewing everyone who attended a party (wedding?) the night of the incident in order to understand the relationships amongst them.** (Only a carefully censored summary of the details shown in the remembered flashbacks were relayed to the detective.) And that's also why he reads Noah's second novel, where he finds something that sends him to "The End", about which Noah had claimed to be clueless. (In an unfortunate twist of irony for Noah, his lie will itself become a clue.) The detective doesn't (yet) know about the drugs.

What Noah "thought" and Alison "wants" were merely words spoken to a murder-investigating detective by lyin', cheatin', drug-dealing/knowing, ass-covering adulterers who may still be in love with one another. At this point, not everything they say can be taken at face value. (See "fling" and the mother of all his lies,"she came after me pretty hard", a statement so pathetic that it would make him look even worse if it were true.)

**This detective is no fool. While everyone has recognized his mind games in providing completely different narratives to Noah and Alison regarding his own marital circumstances in order to get them to be more forthcoming in their responses, what impressed me the more was the clever way in which he elicited crucial testimony to get at the underlying emotional dynamics of the affair. He asks each what they first noticed about the other, rather than what they first felt, for example. Unlike the latter question, his indirect one was perfectly well-defined and required only a simple, spontaneous, and, therefore, more trustworthy answer. Imagine the different conclusion he (and we) might have drawn if instead of "her face", Noah had said "her legs", or instead of "holding his daughter", Alison had said "he was handsome". Murder can result from the ultimate fallout of a passionate love affair, but less likely from a summer's sexual diversion. The detective derived some genuine insight not only on what first drew them together, but also on possible lingering emotions that might make them hide some of the whole truth and say things not the truth.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Higgs

[JenE4]

...

Only a carefully censored summary of the details shown in the remembered flashbacks were relayed to the detective.) And that's also why he reads Noah's second novel, where he finds something that sends him to "The End", about which Noah had claimed to be clueless. (In an unfortunate twist of irony for Noah, his lie will itself become a clue.) The detective doesn't (yet) know about the drugs.

...

**This detective is no fool. While everyone has recognized his mind games in providing completely different narratives to Noah and Alison regarding his own marital circumstances in order to get them to be more forthcoming in their responses, what impressed me the more was the clever way in which he elicited crucial testimony to get at the underlying emotional dynamics of the affair. He asks each what they first noticed about the other, rather than what they first felt, for example.

 

This is an awesome post, Higgs! I completely agree with you. They're not telling the detective ALL of these details--I suppose they're just the memories that flash through their minds. Each episode, the detective asks one or two questions (and I think one episode, he didn't ask any) and we get a one sentence response to the detective. I've assumed that is ALL they're saying. As you said, Noah, specifically told the detective that he's never been to The End, so he's obviously NOT then contradicting himself and telling the detective every detail of when he WAS actually there--including helping his friend buy drugs--that's just his mind flipping to his memories of when he was there. Same, too, as you said about what do you remember when you first saw each other. They gave a one-word/phrase response each, but the home viewer gets the whole memory of that first day they met. So, it's not like they're giving the detective every detail of this affair, but the detective is just asking a few questions to see how they know each other. And I love your explanation of how he's tailoring his OWN background and phrasing the questions in a certain way to get the most bang for his buck as to how they'll answer his questions. Now I wish I paid better attention to the specific Q&As from each episode!

Boundary, on 03 Dec 2014 - 5:37 PM, said:

I too think sufficient time has passed. For some reason I have 3 years in my mind's eye, I have no proof for that whatsoever and I don't know if that is enough to cover Higgs' events, especially Trevors' education and Alison's kid's age. But if so,why would the detective be asking about careful details from a 3 year old affair?

 

In one of the threads on this board (media, perhaps?) it was said that this show was designed as three seasons and that it was renewed, so I, too, assumed it was 3 years in the future for that reason.

Edited December 4, 2014 by JenE4

[jrlr]

What puzzles me is why Alison is in Montauk to answer the detective's questions.I'm assuming she now lives in NYC because she says she has to get back to the city.  Surely she wouldn't just hop over to Montauk for questioning - the cops would go to see her in the city, right?

[Higgs]

There was an instance where details were indeed given.

Noah: "And is this really what you want to know? Details on some fight I had with my wife?"

Detective (chuckling): "Not really."

I believe it's not the details per se that most interested the detective, but the level and type of passion involved. (If the detective had "not really" wanted Noah's details, he would have stopped him.) Passion can kill.

The interviews are taking place at a Suffolk County Police location, most likely at its headquarters about halfway from Brooklyn (which Alison would also have referred to as "the city") to Montauk. Cops "bring people in" to create a fear factor so that they'll spill as many beans as possible, especially including the ratting out of someone else. Suffolk County does not provide normal police services to its easternmost towns, so the detective would not know that much about Montauk (56 mi. away), its denizens or their relationships.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Higgs

[jrlr]

Thanks, Higgs.

[Boundary]

 As you said, Noah, specifically told the detective that he's never been to The End, so he's obviously NOT then contradicting himself and telling the detective every detail of when he WAS actually there--including helping his friend buy drugs--that's just his mind flipping to his memories of when he was there.

 

You almost convinced me there, it's a really good argument. I've always assumed that what we see is what they tell the detective, mainly because of the transition from flashback to the interview scene. Higgs just mentioned the one about Noah's argument with Helen. Another example would be when Alison saw Scotty at the restaurant,  after that scene Alison told the detective,(paraphrasing) "you asked about when I saw Scotty and Oscar together, I just told you". Which to me confirmed that the flashback scene was also being relayed to the detective. The thing about The End, when Noah met Alison and then discovered about the drugs - the detective never appeared in that episode at all. So he can't have been told about the drugs, which makes sense.

[Higgs]

The biggest mystery for me in all that's been shown is Noah's lie about "The End".

Here's what we know:

Scotty died on the road to "The End".

"The End" is a club frequented almost exclusively by tourists.

Noah was a tourist.

Noah met Alison at "The End" during the affair.

That Noah and Alison had an affair was fully known to the detective.

There were no drugs involved in the tryst at "The End".

Given all this, what reason would Noah have to say not only that he'd never been there, but that he'd never even heard of it? The latter statement is implausible on its face due the frequent visits of the (tourist) Solloways to Montauk, and serves no purpose that I can imagine, especially as a lie, any lie, big or small, about anything, would immediately arouse the suspicions of a detective. Unless...he was spooked and blurted out an unthinking lie because something much more sinister had happened there since that summer. (Is not a public club a common place to hire a hit man?)

If I turn out to be wrong about the exact nature of the "uncomfortable truth" of the next episoide, I will publically apologize.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Higgs

[JenE4]

Hmm. Now Boundary's and Higgs's posts above have got me thinking... You're right, Boundary; the detective asked about The End in the previous episode, then the next episode was all about The End. Was The End episode the one episode in which there was no interrogation scene? And then because there WASN'T an interrogation scene with a memory in The End episode, was Noah purposefully lying as per Higgs's post? I don't know that that's the case. I have memories of being places without remembering the NAME of the place. Could it be that Noah remembers going to a club but just doesn't know it's the same club that the detective is asking about? Then again, the way the detective described it, it sounds like it's the only club like that out that direction, so now maybe Noah WAS lying. I know that we viewers saw that The End blue surfboard sign. That was in Noah's memory, right? If he remembers seeing that sign, then he has to know it was The End or it wouldn't have been in HIS memory, only in Allison's memory...  So, now I'm back to thinking he DOES remember and he DID lie...unless someone can confirm that The End sign was NOT visible in Noah's memory and only in Allison's...but I'm pretty sure we saw it right away to say "Oh! He LIED in the previouslies they just showed us from last week!!"  (I'm just talking myself into circular a tizzy over here like the poison scene in The Princess Bride, lol.)

[Higgs]

That [the sign] was in Noah's memory, right?

Right, as confirmed by rewatching. The next scene was the coke buy in the taxi, without Alison.

There is, however, a larger point to be made here. A serious TV drama series has a purpose and a style to which it has to remain true. The purpose of this show is given on its official website: "The Affair explores the emotional effects of an extramarital relationship". A key aspect of its style is that, while it doles out information piecemeal, purposely differing in the principals' POV, and incorporates a possible murder mystery, it hasn't yet resorted to teasing misleads or surprising plot twists. For example, it hinted at drug-dealing, then delivered drug-dealing. I can't recall anything in an episode that wasn't substantially as suggested in the preview. SImply put, if you have been led to believe Noah lied, he lied.

There are also significant hints given by the stated purpose. Helen could not possibly have already cheated with Max, not it because it's unrealistic, but because "affair" and "relationship" are singular, not plural, and, more importantly, if she had then Noah's guilt and Helen's pain would both be dramatically diminished, and there would go the "emotional effects". Also, the show is not called "The Fling", because if that were all that had happened then Noah and Alison would not suffer the conflicts of emotions and life choices necessary to sustain audience involvement for at least another season. And maybe Scotty would still be alive (not that anyone except Ma Lockhart, maybe a few horses, and the unlucky convicted perpetrator really cares).

Edited December 6, 2014 by Higgs

[Boundary]

Noah lied about The End, that much is clear. What's intriguing is why he lied. Having told the detective about embarrassing/emotional/personal stuff about his affair, it really looks like such an innocuous thing to lie about - unless it's not. We already know about the drugs, so maybe he's protecting Alison. Except that he could equally protect her without such a lie. So Noah's presence at The End points to something significant about his or her complicity in the murder somehow; Noah knows this, the detective also knows this. Maybe Noah was protecting Max.

[missy jo]

I don't see another place for this - anyone know the reason for the long break between episodes? I actually started to think the series was over, and just had abrupt ending.

[Higgs]

"The Affair explores the emotional effects of an extramarital relationship".

If the story line is to be tightly drawn to the very end, and continue to follow the basic precepts of ancient Greek tragedy**, Scotty's death should also be one of the "emotional effects" of the affair, and cause the downfall of a flawed "hero". That would rule out others in the drug trade, corrupt Montauk cops (Lockharts' "eyes and ears in the precinct"), Ma Lockhart (the Livia Soprano of Montauk) as a necessary sacrifice to save her other boys and all their assets from government seizure, and, alas, even Whitney (by then a long-gone college junior/senior), Then the culprit would have to be a main character, and they would have to have done it for noble emotional reasons, not to save their own neck. That leaves Noah, only. Why?

Scotty died on the road to "The End", where locals so seldom go that Alison and Noah had no compunction in engaging in a very public display of dirty dancing. What was Scotty doing way out there? Selling drugs to partying tourists, in all likelihood.

The interrogating detective knew nothing about the Lockharts' drug business. If/when he found out, most threateningly through Scotty (impetuous, violent, stupid, and stubborn, the Sonny Corleone of Montauk) being caught, Alison could eventually be implicated.

Who is the one and only person whose feelings for another were completely due to the affair, and who loved so deeply that he would kill on their behalf?

QED

**https://mobile.twitter.com/sarahtreem/status/536651595824390144

Edited December 7, 2014 by Higgs

[AmandaPanda]

I don't see another place for this - anyone know the reason for the long break between episodes? I actually started to think the series was over, and just had abrupt ending.

 

It'll be back this Sunday. They took last week off since it was Thanksgiving weekend and used it as a chance to marathon the whole series to get more viewers for the last three episodes.

[lidarose9]

I let all these episodes stack up and just watched them, bringing me up to date, and I have to say, I hate this show and I hate all these people.

 

Yes, it's a nifty device to storytell from two different points-of-view, hurrah. Congrats. But wtf is up with the story, man? Is this really an examination of the consequences of an extra-marital affair? Cuz so many of those involve drug smuggling and dealing, small town political backstabbing, oh yeah and MURDER. Happens all the time. I was expecting a chase scene or an explosion. Dysfunctional family, devoted family with dirty secrets... the hard lives of the working class locals in a tourist economy. Throw half a dozen genres into a blender and voila. Let me serve you a piping hot steaming plate of MESS.

 

And they all act like spoiled children. Even Helen and Cole, who are less repugnant than the others. 

 

And while the adults are all off acting like children, the children are in big trouble: we've got drowned children, choking children, children faking suicide, children attempting suicide, puking children with cancer, and for good measure, suggestions of child abuse. The whole thing is a mess. A MESS.

 

And a terrible waste of the considerable talents of the cast. I can't fault a single one of them, and yet it adds up to a bunch of nothing. Unlikeable people being miserable. What fun. And the lack of ANY kind of chemistry between Noah and Alison is just staggering. I didn't know it could be so bad. I love McNulty, and the poor guy is acting his ass off but it's all bouncing off a blank wall. I also love the actress who plays Alison but she has not got her bearings here at all. She is all over the map, I have no idea who she is. Maybe that was what they were going for. I don't know. I don't care. 

 

And I for one am sick to death of this crap of them making you wade into episode 3 or 4 before you even get the basic set-up. This is not the first time I've seen it, and I feel it is manipulative, sloppy storytelling. Hate it. Want it to stop. 

 

I will finish out this mess, I suppose, but I won't be joining the fun for Season 2. 

[neonlite]

Since I don't believe that Sarah Treem and Hagai Levi are lazy or superficial writers (based on "In Treatment"), I'm wondering why the affair takes place in the present and the interrogation in the future, rather than a more conventional affair in the past and investigation in the present? There are so many insightful comments on this page, I'm hoping someone will weigh in.

[izabella]

I never thought the investigation was in the future.  I thought it was in the present, the affair was in the past. 

 

If the investigation is in the future, what is in the present?  If the affair is in the present and the investigation in the future, how exactly is that different from the affair being in the past?  Meaning, how do we know the affair is in the present?

[JenE4]

We know it's in the present because Allison's son's gravestone says he died in 2012, so this affair takes place in the summer of 2014. We've discussed this in some other thread, but since I'm not sure which one, I'll recap here. It was announced in some interview that this series was planned to be three seasons, so some of us just assume that means the interrogation is taking place three years from now and eventually we'll "catch up" in time by the series finale. That is just speculation, though. 

[izabella]

Thanks, JenE4, that helped me a lot.

 

I hope that doesn't mean we will be waiting 3 seasons to find out who killed Scotty.  I will not be sticking around if that's the case.

[Pallas]

Here's how I see the events of the episode laying out chronically.

 

Noah, Day 1

Morning: With Helen, makes the decision to leave that day.  

Afternoon: Leaves note in Alison's bike basket.  Has dispiriting conversation with Oscar, who -- informed that Noah is leaving Montauk -- threatens to tell Helen and gives Noah 1 week to come up with $10K; Oscar notes, "I have your cell." Noah picks up Martin at the ranch. The family returns to Brooklyn.

Evening: Pizza for dinner!, and unsuccessful love-making with Helen.  

Late night: Receives a text from Oscar (identified as coming from Oscar Hodges): "Miss me?" Noah lies awake.

 

Noah, Day 2

Morning/Noontime: Visits Max and receives the check for $10K.  

Afternoon: Goes jogging, suffers panic attack.  

Late afternoon: In the ER and now joined by Helen: Noah confesses the affair.  

Evening: Returns home with Helen (Noah still wearing his jogging clothes, Helen in the same clothes she wore at the hospital). Half-family half-hearted group hug, which Noah interrupts to shut the drapes.

Late night: Noah receives a second text from Oscar: "How's Helen?"  

 

Noah, Day 3

Morning: Noah calls Oscar, who smarms, "Noah!  I've been waiting for your call!"  Noah breaks his heart.

 

Alison, Day 1

Morning/Afternoon:: Goes to the Lobster Roll to pick up her last check, which Oscar refuses her. Steals pies and bikes to the ranch.

Late afternoon: The Lockhart men decide to visit Oscar that night to make peace, while Alison and Cherry have a little talk in the kitchen. Cherry burns Alison, along with the note stuck to the bottom of the pies.  

Evening: Alison and the Lockhart boys, dressed as they were that afternoon and at dinner, visit Oscar (wearing the same shirt he wore earlier that day in both Noah and Alison's memories.). Scotty sabotages the peace plan and Oscar erupts about "the guy she's fucking."  He is pummeled for his trouble.

Late evening: Alison and Cole return home, where Alison tells Cole that he doesn't know the guy. Cole leaves it there.   

 

Alison Day 2

Early morning: Alison tells Cole she might go away for a few days. Cole agrees this is a good idea.

Afternoon: Alison arrives in Brooklyn, visits with her friend, gets stoned, gets the munchies, hears about the internet.  

Mid-afternoon: Alison and friend visit Helen's store.  After Helen thanks Alison for saving her daughter, Alison flees: in the background, Helen is called to the phone ("It's your husband.  He said it was...")  Alison parts ways with her friend.

Evening: Alison, seen checking her phone (for the address, googled?) walks down the sidewalk opposite Noah's house. Through the window she sees a different, complete version of the family hug, with Helen snuggled under Noah's arm and Noah facing out toward the street, staring straight at Alison. Noah closes the drapes. 

Late evening: Alison returns to the friend's apartment, where she finds Cole, who claims to need to know who Alison was fucking because that person might have been the one to dig up the now-missing stash.  Alison and Cole take a walk, where she confesses about Noah and Cole opens up about the deaths of his father and their son.  

 

Alison, Day 3

Morning/Noon: Alison and Cole drive back to Montauk together.

Afternoon: Alison and Cole visit Hal and family in the hospital. Cole declares the ranch must be sold, and leaves with Alison

Evening: Alison and Cole begin to make love, Cole proposes that they try to become pregnant.

 

I think the three days in each narrative are teh same three days and occurred sequentially.  I don't see any sign that Oscar informed Helen before Noah did. Oscar's text to Noah on the first night (likely after the visit from the Lockharts -- it's very late when Noah receives the text, and he gets the signal when it comes in); his text late on the second night, and his tone with Noah the third morning all suggest otherwise.