S05.E01: Guess Who's Coming to the White Party?

[vrocotamy]

I don't know if this would be considered manipulation but twice last season I saw Lisa try and keep an argument going.  The first occurred when Brandi stormed out of SUR after losing her battle with Michael and Joyce-Lisa seem perturbed that Yolanda "had let Brandi go".  Yolanda I think acted as a good friend but the resulting conversation afterwards made the entire table sans Joyce and Michael look like fools with all their Brandi excuses.  I kind of enjoyed Brandi having to dodge the likes of Martin and Mohamed at this year's White Party-what a difference a year makes.  The second time I saw Lisa try and keep the battling factions going was at the Mauricio/Ken birthday party, after Carlton had said she didn't care if it was Mauricio birthday and continued her verbal barrage, Lisa went after her and her husband and asked them to stay and work it out.  A third example may be in Lisa pulling Brandi aside and asking her to congratulate Scheana on her engagement.  I don't know that Lisa considers it manipulation but the continuation of either fight may have made for good TV.  Both instances are also good examples of playing the RH game and ending up looking rather ridiculous.

 

As elaborated elsewhere on this forum, I think these are instances of Lisa helping production to develop storyline. It was a role she'd been playing from the show's onset, but she probably got more heavy-handed at it by Season 4. In previous seasons, if she'd had any moments of such obvious persuasion, production would have edited it out. But production was left grasping for a storyline during Season 4, since Carlton and Joyce didn't deliver as planned. As a result, they threw Lisa under the bus to craft a storyline about Lisa being "manipulative", building on Brandi, Kyle, and Yolanda's resentments. What you ended up with was a very meta-referential season about the cast member's actions in the light of being on a candid reality show.

 

As said before, the other HWs all have strategies, which are negotiated (in practice, if not explicitly) between them and production. I don't see Kyle's not shooting back insults at Brandi at Carlton's luncheon as a sign of her personal virtue. If it were off camera, she probably would have - and I don't doubt Kyle was stifling herself. After Kyle got a huge backlash for her nastiness to Brandi at Game Night in Season 2 - and Brandi developed a fan following - Kyle has been wary of attacking Brandi. She decided it was safer to be virtuously indignant and hurt, even as production (with heavy assistance from Lisa, Brandi, Carlton, and Yolanda) tried their hardest to push her buttons with the Mauricio tabloid allegations. Playing the victim in Seasons 3/4 has been a strategy on Kyle's part. It's helped her look good, and it's helped production by creating a conduit for the return of old drama (particularly with Lisa.) In order to enact her strategies, Lisa has mostly used persuasion and suggestion to lead the other cast members to action, rather than acting herself. She's intelligent enough to pull this off, and it worked for her (and production) until TPTB turned on her last season.

 

Re: Lisa and Ken's finances (or lack thereof), as discussed up-thread: I don't think the Vanderpump-Todds are nearly as wealthy as they'd like people to think, and probably are bumping up against the walls of their means with their extravagant lifestyle. Zoeysmom mentioned that they sold their businesses in the UK sometime in the '00s for 10 million pounds (about 20 million US dollars) and relocated from France to Los Angeles. They probably also sold whatever residences they had in France and the UK, and arrived with that in California. They're filthy rich compared to about 99.9% of people, but I doubt their savings are that deep or that their cash-flow - beyond Lisa's ventures with Bravo - is so mighty. The latter is likely a big reason as to why Lisa has worked so hard at promoting her business ventures on the show. As revealed by Karina Bustillos' lawsuit, their restaurants have been operating at a loss and Ken and Lisa are inattentive to their finances, at least in that respect. Whatever Midas Touch Ken and Lisa had in London with restaurants, clubs, and pubs in the '80s and '90s, I don't think they have it in relation to contemporary audiences in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills.

 

I do think, however, that Lisa and Ken have a very nouveau riche pomposity about their wealth and a huge amount of class entitlement, as indicated both by on-show comments and actions and people's off-show experiences (Ken and Lisa's behavior at a charity function or their smug comments about their wealth.) My theory of Ken and Lisa is that part of the reason they lived outside of the UK for so long - in addition to protecting their earnings from the taxman, like many Britons - is that they're considered middle-class millionaires in the UK, not really part of true high society. Class in Britain is still based, largely, on heredity, not income, and people don't really change classes in their lifetime. Lisa and Ken are not from the gentry. They're at the wealthiest end of the wealthy middle-class of Victoria Beckham and Kate Middleton's parents, and are not as wealthy as the entertainment/sports new money, with whom they'd probably like to rub shoulders (e.g. Neil Tennant or Elton John.) In California, they can play these wealthy, classy, witty Britons out of a W.H. Auden play and they're not questioned about their middle-class upbringings, whereas they're not truly part of he upper-crust in the UK.

Edited November 22, 2014 by vrocotamy

[zoeysmom]

As elaborated elsewhere on this forum, I think these are instances of Lisa helping production to develop storyline. It was a role she'd been playing from the show's onset, but she probably got more heavy-handed at it by Season 4. In previous seasons, if she'd had any moments of such obvious persuasion, production would have edited it out. But production was left grasping for a storyline during Season 4, since Carlton and Joyce didn't deliver as planned. As a result, they threw Lisa under the bus to craft a storyline about Lisa being "manipulative", building on Brandi, Kyle, and Yolanda's resentments. What you ended up with was a very meta-referential season about the cast member's actions in the light of being on a candid reality show.

 

As said before, the other HWs all have strategies, which are negotiated (in practice, if not explicitly) between them and production. I don't see Kyle's not shooting back insults at Brandi at Carlton's luncheon as a sign of her personal virtue. If it were off camera, she probably would have - and I don't doubt Kyle was stifling herself. After Kyle got a huge backlash for her nastiness to Brandi at Game Night in Season 2 - and Brandi developed a fan following - Kyle has been wary of attacking Brandi. She decided it was safer to be virtuously indignant and hurt, even as production (with heavy assistance from Lisa, Brandi, Carlton, and Yolanda) tried their hardest to push her buttons with the Mauricio tabloid allegations. Playing the victim in Seasons 3/4 has been a strategy on Kyle's part. It's helped her look good, and it's helped production by creating a conduit for the return of old drama (particularly with Lisa.) In order to enact her strategies, Lisa has mostly used persuasion and suggestion to lead the other cast members to action, rather than acting herself. She's intelligent enough to pull this off, and it worked for her (and production) until TPTB turned on her last season.

Kyle has mentioned before since game night she has always been nice to Brandi.  She is also smart enough to blog she is not close to Brandi.  I don't see Kyle as playing victim as her main storyline point but last season there seemed to be way too many victims. Lisa was a victim, Kyle was a victim, Brandi was a victim, Yolanda was a victim of Lyme's disease, Joyce was truly a victim at Brandi's hands, Kim was a victim of the world not paying homage to her great cultural contribution of "Hello Larry" and of course Carlton was the poster child of being a victim of Wiccan abuse. Carlton's behavior was so overboard concerning Kyle that it was not even good TV.

 

I will predict that there will be a major blowout between Kim and Kyle and Brandi will be in the middle of it.  Once Brandi realized she can't get create havoc in the Umansky marriage she will go to Kyle's Achilles heel and question and create drama between the sisters.  Kim is stupid enough to fall for the attention from Brandi and the chance to make her sister out to be a villain.  Brandi seems to be relying on past storylines to stay relevant.  The sister dynamic will be what Kim has to do to keep her relevant to the show.  It didn't work with Lisa being the bad guy by not attending the stupid graduation party but by season end Kim will be dying for a replay of the limo scene between she and Kyle and Brandi will be the driver.  I will say Lisa and Ken did a pretty good job in Paris of trying to drive a wedge between the sisters and it failed.

 

The reason I don't jump on the bash Kyle bandwagon is throughout the run of the show no matter what was thrown at her she has basically been honest or at least not caught in some outrageous lie.  Camille, Taylor, Kim, Yolanda, Brandi x ten, Lisa (with the fake what is Cedric doing here at SUR), Adrienne, Carlton have all pretty much lied.  I will say much of Lisa's lies it is as you say for production purposes.  I think with some of her recent legal woes more will surface.

 

I have resigned myself to the fact we won't see anymore Kyle/Lisa drama only because I don't think there was a strong hate quotient to begin with between the two of them.  To me, it always seemed as if they were both handed a boatload of fame and chose to run with it in very different directions.  Both are now fabulously wealthy because of it and have the sense to see what works and what was a big fail.  I think the relationship will have a detractor in Brandi but the two new women coming aboard will draw Lisa and Kyle closer.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Very good sum-up, vrocotamy, on the level of the Todd-Vanderpump wealth.  And let's look at it in terms of LA wealth.  The T-V wealth really doesn't rate high up there.  I'm an entertainment lawyer and altho I'm based in NYC, I have much knowledge of many in the entertainment industry in LA.  When you factor in the supremely successful -- not just actors, but writers & producers & higher-level studio executives, among countless others in the industry, the T/V "wealth" is kinda laughable in comparison.  In fact, there really is no comparison.  The T-V's are worth a pittance compared to the likes of them.

 

Just look at Rinna & Hamlin.  They've done pretty well.  They've both had many long-term, great-paying gigs.  I wouldn't say they're super wealthy at all, but I bet they're worth way more than the T-V's.  Really, the only one I've seen on the show so far who I'm sure is impressively wealthy is Mohamed.  And from what I understand he has most of his money elsewhere -- maybe cuz he wants to hide it from Yo so she can't get any more than what was settled on in the divorce or he just doesn't wanna get taxed on it.  Sheesh, just dat house of his alone looks like it's worth a 100 mil.

 

The show has become a great smokescreen for the T-V's -- and it's also a PR gimmick & an advertisement for their businesses.  Why else would Lisa tolerate the company of & then being slandered & now actually slapped in the face by a trashbag like Brandi?  Of course Lisa will take this crap -- cuz at this point she has to.  If Satan Andy said to her that Brandi was gonna dump a bucket of pink paint all over her on camera, I'm quite sure she would agree to dat too.  She's Satan Andy's slave now.  Let's see how much he's gonna humiliate her.  Cuz I know just how evil he is & I predict he will.

Edited November 22, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[KFC]

I'd wager King David is every bit as wealthy as Mohammed. Producing is where the big money is in the music industry, and with the longevity and breadth of his catalog, I'd venture that his fortune just as substantial if not more. I think he's just less ostentatious about displaying it. (Just the Grammys. ;-))

[ScoobieDoobs]

I'd wager King David is every bit as wealthy as Mohammed

 

 

No way.  It's not known for sure what Mohamed's wealth is cuz he only has a tiny fraction of it here.  But many sources say he is a billionaire -- many times over.  KD is not a billionaire.  He's not in the position of a Geffen.  Absolutely nowhere near it.  He may have produced, but he hasn't owned a major studio & he hasn't done it on an enormous level (with ops for taking bigger & bigger percentages) -- dat's where the mega bucks are.  Yo might wanna puff up KD.  Me, not so much.

Edited November 22, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[RedheadZombie]

After last season's reunion, I didn't follow the fall-out.  Did anything happen regarding Yolanda's claim that Ken manhandled her, and her resulting hysteria?  That's a major accusation, and it's strange that all's forgotten.

[ScoobieDoobs]

It's what I can't stand bout this show.  Satan Andy thinks we're idiots that forget everything immediately.  There have been such great posts on this thread alone confirming many haven't forgotten a thing.  Maybe I have, but it looks like plenty haven't.

[vrocotamy]

Kyle has mentioned before since game night she has always been nice to Brandi.  She is also smart enough to blog she is not close to Brandi.  I don't see Kyle as playing victim as her main storyline point but last season there seemed to be way too many victims. Lisa was a victim, Kyle was a victim, Brandi was a victim, Yolanda was a victim of Lyme's disease, Joyce was truly a victim at Brandi's hands, Kim was a victim of the world not paying homage to her great cultural contribution of "Hello Larry" and of course Carlton was the poster child of being a victim of Wiccan abuse. Carlton's behavior was so overboard concerning Kyle that it was not even good TV.

 

I will predict that there will be a major blowout between Kim and Kyle and Brandi will be in the middle of it.  Once Brandi realized she can't get create havoc in the Umansky marriage she will go to Kyle's Achilles heel and question and create drama between the sisters.  Kim is stupid enough to fall for the attention from Brandi and the chance to make her sister out to be a villain.  Brandi seems to be relying on past storylines to stay relevant.  The sister dynamic will be what Kim has to do to keep her relevant to the show.  It didn't work with Lisa being the bad guy by not attending the stupid graduation party but by season end Kim will be dying for a replay of the limo scene between she and Kyle and Brandi will be the driver.  I will say Lisa and Ken did a pretty good job in Paris of trying to drive a wedge between the sisters and it failed.

 

The reason I don't jump on the bash Kyle bandwagon is throughout the run of the show no matter what was thrown at her she has basically been honest or at least not caught in some outrageous lie.  Camille, Taylor, Kim, Yolanda, Brandi x ten, Lisa (with the fake what is Cedric doing here at SUR), Adrienne, Carlton have all pretty much lied.  I will say much of Lisa's lies it is as you say for production purposes.  I think with some of her recent legal woes more will surface.

 

I have resigned myself to the fact we won't see anymore Kyle/Lisa drama only because I don't think there was a strong hate quotient to begin with between the two of them.  To me, it always seemed as if they were both handed a boatload of fame and chose to run with it in very different directions.  Both are now fabulously wealthy because of it and have the sense to see what works and what was a big fail.  I think the relationship will have a detractor in Brandi but the two new women coming aboard will draw Lisa and Kyle closer.

 

To be more specific, I think Kyle decided in relation to Brandi the best tactic was to remain calm and not counter-attack. I agree with you about Kyle's honesty and consistency. There are different kinds of dishonesty. There are housewives who are fundamentally dishonest about the realities of their lives, or who feel they have to overcompensate for an area of insecurity (Yolanda, Camille, Kim) - even if their general and there are housewives who directly lie compulsively (Carlton, Brandi.) Taylor was both. To me, Lisa straddles both categories but falls mostly in the former. As I said in my previous post, I think Lisa and Ken have an unquestioned cache in Bravo-land because of the image they project - with Lisa's '80s glamor house and her diamonds and Joan Collins wardrobe - but that they're living a $100 million lifestyle on a $30 million budget and their wealth lies atop a bed of shoddy business practices. They - particularly Ken - feel entitled to their class position and feel that anyone who works for them is privileged to have the pleasure of fetching scones for them. Unfortunately, it seems like Lisa has a redemption arc this season. I think Bravo worried that Lisa fans were turned off by the negativity about her last season and is in overdrive to portray her, once more, as she seemed in Season 1, to keep ratings up.

 

I think this season will be Brandi's demise, however. Andy's routine with the "hot po-titty" on WWHL with Camille, Taylor, and Adrienne was a set-up for it. My predictions are a bit different than yours as to how things will happen with Kyle, Kim, and Brandi. Part of it is that I have a different view on (or simply like) Kim, even if I acknowledge she's a self-centered, exhausting mess. I think she actually does have strategies that she tries to execute with production, and that the dumb, "wacky", free-spirited Kim of last season is an example of good acting. The thing is, Kim is and always will be marginal to the show, so any strategies she's executing along with production - with the ultimate goal of her remaining relevant and staying on the show - will not end up making her look great.

 

The issue with being assigned to being the wacky, unpredictable character is that part of doing your job is doing dumb shit, e.g. calling Ken a "stupid old man" (or whatever she called him) or being pissed at Ken and Lisa for not attending Lil' Kim's graduation party. If you're an actor, that's your character; if you're a reality TV actor, that's you. I do have to say it's believable because Kim has exhibited similar (but not so exaggerated) characteristics prior to Season 4, and that production plays off that. I don't know if Kim, off camera and off the record, would say she really cared about Ken and Lisa attending or not attending Lil' Kim's shindig. She would probably say that she doesn't like Ken and Lisa - that she believes that Lisa's concern for her is disingenuous and that Lisa has always been contemptuous towards her* - and that production (her "hairdresser") told her Lisa arrived back in Los Angeles earlier than planned and told her to make a big deal out of it. She then channeled that dislike into a performance.

 

Kim and Brandi clearly had a friendship at the season's beginning. Kim, Kyle, Brandi, and Camille were spotted out together in West Hollywood off camera. There were also clips in the preview that indicate that Brandi and Kyle actually became friends for a bit. My guess is that Kim, Brandi, and Kyle get into a blow-out. Brandi first takes Kim's side. Kyle and Kim patch things up and then probably shut Brandi out, and it becomes her demise on the show. The sisters will only briefly side with another housewife against the other, although they will treat each other like crap if they're in a disagreement (as is often the case with family.) I don't think Kim is eager to make her sister out to be a villain, from what we've seen, unless she's the one doing it. Kyle and Kim were lovey-dovey on Instagram up through Halloween, before the dog-biting, so they had to have patched up their discord by the end of the season. Kim actually had a fair amount going on in her personal life in the past two years beyond Brandi, with her son's mental breakdown, her eldest daughter's marriage, and her first husband's illness. Bravo couldn't showcase the first, but I'm curious to see if they will the latter two (she's caring for her first husband, eccentric supermarket heir Monty Brinson.)

 

*I think Lisa feels defensively contemptuous towards Kim out of a weird competition - they are both actresses, beautiful in youth, 3 years apart in age, who married young (and well) at a similar age. Lisa was formally trained, but her career was a no-starter and she became rich (but not as rich as she'd like us to think.) Kim was a top-billing child and teen star who dug gold twice - and dug gold the second time, with Gregg Davis, an heir to the Davis Oil fortune - better than any of these gold-diggers could imagine, but came out with her pockets half-empty. As Lisa did with Adrienne, she still feels the need to show she's better than Kim, instead of just taking it for granted. Kim makes some of these women nervous  - Taylor as well as Lisa - contrast because she represents how their greatest dreams - fame, beauty, and rich husbands - can turn on you and make you into a wreck like her.

[WireWrap]

To be more specific, I think Kyle decided in relation to Brandi the best tactic was to remain calm and not counter-attack. I agree with you about Kyle's honesty and consistency. There are different kinds of dishonesty. There are housewives who are fundamentally dishonest about the realities of their lives, or who feel they have to overcompensate for an area of insecurity (Yolanda, Camille, Kim) - even if their general and there are housewives who directly lie compulsively (Carlton, Brandi.) Taylor was both. To me, Lisa straddles both categories but falls mostly in the former. As I said in my previous post, I think Lisa and Ken have an unquestioned cache in Bravo-land because of the image they project - with Lisa's '80s glamor house and her diamonds and Joan Collins wardrobe - but that they're living a $100 million lifestyle on a $30 million budget and their wealth lies atop a bed of shoddy business practices. They - particularly Ken - feel entitled to their class position and feel that anyone who works for them is privileged to have the pleasure of fetching scones for them. Unfortunately, it seems like Lisa has a redemption arc this season. I think Bravo worried that Lisa fans were turned off by the negativity about her last season and is in overdrive to portray her, once more, as she seemed in Season 1, to keep ratings up.

 

I think this season will be Brandi's demise, however. Andy's routine with the "hot po-titty" on WWHL with Camille, Taylor, and Adrienne was a set-up for it. My predictions are a bit different than yours as to how things will happen with Kyle, Kim, and Brandi. Part of it is that I have a different view on (or simply like) Kim, even if I acknowledge she's a self-centered, exhausting mess. I think she actually does have strategies that she tries to execute with production, and that the dumb, "wacky", free-spirited Kim of last season is an example of good acting. The thing is, Kim is and always will be marginal to the show, so any strategies she's executing along with production - with the ultimate goal of her remaining relevant and staying on the show - will not end up making her look great.

 

The issue with being assigned to being the wacky, unpredictable character is that part of doing your job is doing dumb shit, e.g. calling Ken a "stupid old man" (or whatever she called him) or being pissed at Ken and Lisa for not attending Lil' Kim's graduation party. If you're an actor, that's your character; if you're a reality TV actor, that's you. I do have to say it's believable because Kim has exhibited similar (but not so exaggerated) characteristics prior to Season 4, and that production plays off that. I don't know if Kim, off camera and off the record, would say she really cared about Ken and Lisa attending or not attending Lil' Kim's shindig. She would probably say that she doesn't like Ken and Lisa - that she believes that Lisa's concern for her is disingenuous and that Lisa has always been contemptuous towards her* - and that production (her "hairdresser") told her Lisa arrived back in Los Angeles earlier than planned and told her to make a big deal out of it. She then channeled that dislike into a performance.

 

Kim and Brandi clearly had a friendship at the season's beginning. Kim, Kyle, Brandi, and Camille were spotted out together in West Hollywood off camera. There were also clips in the preview that indicate that Brandi and Kyle actually became friends for a bit. My guess is that Kim, Brandi, and Kyle get into a blow-out. Brandi first takes Kim's side. Kyle and Kim patch things up and then probably shut Brandi out, and it becomes her demise on the show. The sisters will only briefly side with another housewife against the other, although they will treat each other like crap if they're in a disagreement (as is often the case with family.) I don't think Kim is eager to make her sister out to be a villain, from what we've seen, unless she's the one doing it. Kyle and Kim were lovey-dovey on Instagram up through Halloween, before the dog-biting, so they had to have patched up their discord by the end of the season. Kim actually had a fair amount going on in her personal life in the past two years beyond Brandi, with her son's mental breakdown, her eldest daughter's marriage, and her first husband's illness. Bravo couldn't showcase the first, but I'm curious to see if they will the latter two (she's caring for her first husband, eccentric supermarket heir Monty Brinson.)

 

*I think Lisa feels defensively contemptuous towards Kim out of a weird competition - they are both actresses, beautiful in youth, 3 years apart in age, who married young (and well) at a similar age. Lisa was formally trained, but her career was a no-starter and she became rich (but not as rich as she'd like us to think.) Kim was a top-billing child and teen star who dug gold twice - and dug gold the second time, with Gregg Davis, an heir to the Davis Oil fortune - better than any of these gold-diggers could imagine, but came out with her pockets half-empty. As Lisa did with Adrienne, she still feels the need to show she's better than Kim, instead of just taking it for granted. Kim makes some of these women nervous  - Taylor as well as Lisa - contrast because she represents how their greatest dreams - fame, beauty, and rich husbands - can turn on you and make you into a wreck like her.

It is quite possible that Lisa does have contempt for Kim but it is because of Kyle. Kim has put Kyle through the ringer because of her addictions. Kyle is on record as saying that she, Kim, has been an addict most of her adult life, that is a long time to be a leach sucking on your families emotions. I think Taylor's reactions to Kim could stem from the same frustrations, watching your friend be put through the wringer because of an addict sisters behaviors can build resentments toward the addict. I have no doubts that Kyle has spoken to both Lisa and Taylor, off camera, about her worries about finding Kim dead of an overdose, those are real fears she has mentioned on the show.  

 

 I do think Kim is jealous of Lisa though, as well as Taylor to a lesser degree. I think Kim dislikes both women, or really anyone, that she perceives as closer to Kyle than she is. Kim desperately wants Kyle to look up to her, as she is the older sister of the 2, and to put her needs/wants before any outsider/friend. I don't think Kyle does this, nor should she, and Kim blames the other women instead of Kyle or Heaven forbid, blames herself and her addictions/behaviors.

[ottergirl]

I am sure the "dream team" had a few chuckles over lunch how Kyle would just die if it ever came up on camera.  And cue Brandi once the cameras started rolling, "So Kyle what do you think about the tabloids saying Maurcio cheated?" or whatever she said.  This is what I think Brandi meant.  Lisa never told her to say anything, but I can totally see Brandi thinking she would win big brownie points with Lisa by doing shit like this.

I think this statement was a function of Bravo editing.  IIRC, Brandi had a friend that worked at the magazine and gave Kyle a head's up off camera/before they started shooting that the tabloid was publishing the story.  I think that statement was about that and Bravo put it in the show in relation to the luncheon.

 

Maybe that's it -- I always thought it was unbelievable hypocrisy that Brandi kept yelling, on camera, "I gave her a heads-up so she could QUASH it!"  It's like, dude, you're not quashing it if you're talking about it (and telling her about it) in front of a camera!  You're giving it a megaphone!  The whole thing about "I was being a girls' girl" when Brandi, at the time, was constantly attacking Kyle, was just silly.  

 

To me, this shows what the dynamic of the show was at the time:  the "Dream Team" was viewers' choice after the last reunion, and they believed they could do no wrong.  They could trash Kyle and Mauricio, attack their integrity, their marriage, openly mock them and laugh at them, and the viewers would remain on their side.  And they could do the same to anyone (i.e. Joyce) who seemed like she might be on Kyle's team.

 

What's funny to me is that at some point in the season, Lisa (the master chess player) figured out that the tides were turning: whether it was Brandi and the tampon string, or finally realizing that the constant ganging up on Kyle would backfire, or that Joyce might get a better edit than they expected, Lisa realized that she better get some backup alliances in place.  So she backed away from Brandi (as Ken admitted on camera during the reunion), and started reaching out to Kyle and Joyce.  It was strategic.  (Was she also remorseful?  I think that depends on how you see Lisa.  I don't think so, but who knows for sure.) 

 

What's funny is that when Yolanda and especially Brandi realized Lisa had changed strategies and was forging new alliances, they freaked out.  Hence Brandi trying to turn Kyle against Lisa ("she told me to put tabloids in the suitcase!") and both of them wondering (in footage that was shown in the "this season on" previews but never in an episode) whether Lisa/Ken were blackmailing the Umanskys.  I do believe Yolanda when she said that Lisa "never had anything good to say about Kyle, at all," so she didn't understand why Lisa was suddenly buddying up to her again.  I also think that the reason the Lisa take-down didn't work was because it was all about what she was doing FOR THE SHOW, and Bravo will never show that.  

 

As others on this very smart thread have said, the amount of production interference really comes through in the way on-camera conflicts are portrayed.  They couldn't say that the fight was over agreements they had made about who to befriend and what to say or do on camera, because we're supposed to pretend that none of this is planned.  (For the record, I also believe fully that production knows Lisa wanted to bring the magazines, and that production told Kyle that.  I ALSO believe that production may have encouraged Lisa to encourage Brandi to bring the magazines, so Lisa's defense is that "Production told me to," making the whole thing a vicious circle that they can't explain without bringing the whole house of cards tumbling down. The biggest accusation against Lisa is that she stirs the pot.  I think she does stir the pot; I also think she often does so at production's request, so again, it's hard to put the accusations against her on camera.)

 

As others have said, I think Kyle knows all of this - then and now - but also learned that no matter what, Lisa will stay fan favorite, so it's better to be on her team than against her.  Kyle is being strategic and playing chess too.  So's Lisa.  I don't believe they're really friends anymore.  I believe they're strategic allies, on camera.  And Brandi is FURIOUS to have been left behind.  But Brandi, you deserve it, so I will not waste one second feeling sorry for you.   Joyce, of all people, called Brandi just right:  she says horrible things, then cries and plays the victim when she is called on it.  It's so old it's ancient, and I'm just glad that the world has finally seen through it.  Brandi needs to go.

 

I also want to agree with those who have said that one thing you can say for Kyle is that she's honest.  I have never liked Kyle as much as I want to (she does have mean girl tendencies, she's not funny like she thinks she is, and I don't like how she has treated Lisa) - but she, more than possibly anyone, acts the way she thinks is right, regardless of how it will look on camera. She was a good friend to Taylor LONG after the public turned on Taylor, she backed up Adrienne even when the popular girls had turned on her, she was nice to new girl Joyce when the Dream Team was picking on her.  Kyle is a lot of things, but one of them is honest.  To be fair, I think we should give her that.  :)

Edited November 22, 2014 by ottergirl

[Gracie]

Drunk Otis is a damn mess and I wish she was off this show.

That's an insult to Otis.

[quinn]

As elaborated elsewhere on this forum, I think these are instances of Lisa helping production to develop storyline. It was a role she'd been playing from the show's onset, but she probably got more heavy-handed at it by Season 4. In previous seasons, if she'd had any moments of such obvious persuasion, production would have edited it out. But production was left grasping for a storyline during Season 4, since Carlton and Joyce didn't deliver as planned. As a result, they threw Lisa under the bus to craft a storyline about Lisa being "manipulative", building on Brandi, Kyle, and Yolanda's resentments. What you ended up with was a very meta-referential season about the cast member's actions in the light of being on a candid reality show.

 

As said before, the other HWs all have strategies, which are negotiated (in practice, if not explicitly) between them and production. I don't see Kyle's not shooting back insults at Brandi at Carlton's luncheon as a sign of her personal virtue. If it were off camera, she probably would have - and I don't doubt Kyle was stifling herself.

[snip]

In order to enact her strategies, Lisa has mostly used persuasion and suggestion to lead the other cast members to action, rather than acting herself. She's intelligent enough to pull this off, and it worked for her (and production) until TPTB turned on her last season.

If Lisa has been truly manipulating things and her clumsier efforts never made it to air or she was shielded by production, I don't consider it throwing her under the bus to finally show the "real" Lisa. I can believe that she got a little sloppy but I think in Lisa's case that there's just so long that a faker and a fraud can get away with their crap, fraud is too strong of a word but I can't think of another. Lisa has been on camera stirring the pot since season one, she has been explicitly called out for stirring the pot and other misdeeds since season 2. IMO the main reason that Lisa had the wind at her back was that the audience liked her more than they liked her adversary, so if there was no smoking gun, many chose to believe that the person going up against Lisa was lying, jealous or crazy. Actually IMO there was a smoking gun a time or two, but it was ignored or rationalized.

Again I think that if you hang around long enough on a candid reality show, some kind of fall is inevitable, especially if you are being fake and engaging in gamesmanship. However much more than production throwing Lisa under the bus or being ganged up on or plotted against by resentful castmates, Lisa did it to herself, because she stated at the very first reunion that the cameras capture the true person and then went on to boast about how honest, honorable, ballsy and straight-forward she was and then proceeded to contradict / not live up to her self-proclaimed hype.

Lisa did it to herself by:

- guffawing and then excusing Brandi's abhorrent behavior towards new girl Joyce. I think that it was particularly telling to see Lisa belly laughing at Brandi antics and even doing talking heads saying that the crap that Brandi was doing wasn't right but it was funny <laugh, laugh> and IIRC she made another comment to the effect that Joyce was getting mean girled and big whoop. And then that gets juxtaposed that against later in the season Lisa crying to Ken on the beach and telling him in a little girl voice that the others were being mean to her, and then later on leaving the dinner and then checking out of the hotel.

- calling people out as she has done throughout the series culminating in her going after Kyle and Mauricio at the season 3 reunion, discussing the tabloid rumors about Mauricio and then justifying it as the elephant in the room, and then showing ultra-sensitivity when she was called out in Puerto Rico and when Brandi brought up her past financial issues.

- other small scenes of Lisa being gossipy, pot-stirring and / or shady.

- being part of Vanderpump Rules, specifically showing her vulgar and classless side and tolerance of unsavory people and their shenanigans.

Lisa is still very popular and her place on the show is well-cemented, but the luster on her Queen Bee crown has definitely been tarnished and IMO Lisa herself and the passage of time are the main culprits, as opposed to Lisa being conspired against or thrown under the bus.

Edited November 22, 2014 by quinn

[quinn]

I think that David Foster has earned a boatload of money over the years but has lost significant chunks of his earnings in divorces.

[zoeysmom]

I think that David Foster has earned a boatload of money over the years but has lost significant chunks of his earnings in divorces.

And dropping a boatload of money on the Malibu house.  Lot was 6 million and the house was another 7 million to build.  I think he and Yolanda thought they could pull a Mohamed, have it showcased on TV and then sell it for a huge profit.  Trouble is no one is looking to buy it in the $20 million range. 

[quinn]

Maybe that's it -- I always thought it was unbelievable hypocrisy that Brandi kept yelling, on camera, "I gave her a heads-up so she could QUASH it!"  It's like, dude, you're not quashing it if you're talking about it (and telling her about it) in front of a camera!  You're giving it a megaphone!  The whole thing about "I was being a girls' girl" when Brandi, at the time, was constantly attacking Kyle, was just silly. 

To me, this shows what the dynamic of the show was at the time:  the "Dream Team" was viewers' choice after the last reunion, and they believed they could do no wrong.  They could trash Kyle and Mauricio, attack their integrity, their marriage, openly mock them and laugh at them, and the viewers would remain on their side.  And they could do the same to anyone (i.e. Joyce) who seemed like she might be on Kyle's team.

What's funny to me is that at some point in the season, Lisa (the master chess player) figured out that the tides were turning: whether it was Brandi and the tampon string, or finally realizing that the constant ganging up on Kyle would backfire, or that Joyce might get a better edit than they expected, Lisa realized that she better get some backup alliances in place.  So she backed away from Brandi (as Ken admitted on camera during the reunion), and started reaching out to Kyle and Joyce.  It was strategic.  (Was she also remorseful?  I think that depends on how you see Lisa.  I don't think so, but who knows for sure.)

What's funny is that when Yolanda and especially Brandi realized Lisa had changed strategies and was forging new alliances, they freaked out.  Hence Brandi trying to turn Kyle against Lisa ("she told me to put tabloids in the suitcase!") and both of them wondering (in footage that was shown in the "this season on" previews but never in an episode) whether Lisa/Ken were blackmailing the Umanskys.  I do believe Yolanda when she said that Lisa "never had anything good to say about Kyle, at all," so she didn't understand why Lisa was suddenly buddying up to her again.  I also think that the reason the Lisa take-down didn't work was because it was all about what she was doing FOR THE SHOW, and Bravo will never show that. 

As others on this very smart thread have said, the amount of production interference really comes through in the way on-camera conflicts are portrayed.  They couldn't say that the fight was over agreements they had made about who to befriend and what to say or do on camera, because we're supposed to pretend that none of this is planned.  (For the record, I also believe fully that production knows Lisa wanted to bring the magazines, and that production told Kyle that.  I ALSO believe that production may have encouraged Lisa to encourage Brandi to bring the magazines, so Lisa's defense is that "Production told me to," making the whole thing a vicious circle that they can't explain without bringing the whole house of cards tumbling down. The biggest accusation against Lisa is that she stirs the pot.  I think she does stir the pot; I also think she often does so at production's request, so again, it's hard to put the accusations against her on camera.)

 

I actually think that Lisa re-connected with Kyle because she knew that despite being Queen Bee of RHoBH that she was a third wheel on the Dream Team.  The Dream Team was not a house built on a solid foundation, rather it was a house built on sand with Yolanda talking crap about Lisa in France was the first salvo.  Early in season 4 the indicators were there that Brandi and Yolanda were tight with each other but neither one was super-tight with Lisa.  Lisa initially took the hair flip incident out on Joyce because she thought that Joyce was angling for air time when she took Lisa aside to discuss the matter, but according to Joyce the main reason she took Lisa aside was because Brandi and Yolanda bad-mouthing Lisa to her and when Yolanda did it, it was filmed. 

 

IMO Lisa dismissed Joyce but later on, after other incidents, it sunk in what Joyce was trying to tell her.  Then in Palm Springs you have Brandi making the "strategize" comment which Yolanda did not react to on camera, or at least we did not see it, but in a talking head she commented on Lisa maneuvering things and people in order to get a desired outcome.  Brandi also started getting snippy with Lisa over her "mothering" and Yolanda backed Brandi.  The ultimate IMO was when Brandi was invited back to her hometown for a parade and book signing and she chose Yolanda to accompany her.

 

You may be right that Brandi and Yolanda freaked out when they saw Lisa "changing" strategies, but an argument can be made that Lisa did it in reaction to Brandi and Yolanda gradually icing her out.

Edited November 23, 2014 by quinn

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hey wait a minute, forget Lady Pump, ain't Portia now da Queen Bee in Beverly Hills?

[vrocotamy]

It is quite possible that Lisa does have contempt for Kim but it is because of Kyle. Kim has put Kyle through the ringer because of her addictions. Kyle is on record as saying that she, Kim, has been an addict most of her adult life, that is a long time to be a leach sucking on your families emotions. I think Taylor's reactions to Kim could stem from the same frustrations, watching your friend be put through the wringer because of an addict sisters behaviors can build resentments toward the addict. I have no doubts that Kyle has spoken to both Lisa and Taylor, off camera, about her worries about finding Kim dead of an overdose, those are real fears she has mentioned on the show.  

 

 I do think Kim is jealous of Lisa though, as well as Taylor to a lesser degree. I think Kim dislikes both women, or really anyone, that she perceives as closer to Kyle than she is. Kim desperately wants Kyle to look up to her, as she is the older sister of the 2, and to put her needs/wants before any outsider/friend. I don't think Kyle does this, nor should she, and Kim blames the other women instead of Kyle or Heaven forbid, blames herself and her addictions/behaviors.

 

I think it's probably both what I said and what you said. You're right that Kim probably resents Lisa and Taylor because they were closer to Kyle at times than she was, and you're right that - at least in Lisa's case - her contempt for Kim likely stems, at least in part, from what Kyle has said about her. If Taylor and Lisa were asked off-the-record, they'd probably say that. But I also think people have unconscious and semi-conscious motivations for their actions, and that Kim scares them because she's living proof that their greatest dreams (beauty, fame, rich marriage) can turn into nightmares. Kim, by the sheer fact of her presence and personal history more than anything she says or does, makes them question their system of values, which is an uncomfortable process. In her dramatic function, Kim is the vanitas of RHOBH; she's the skull on the table, amidst the riches of the HWs, that reminds them of their mortal vanity.

 

I also don't think Taylor and Lisa actually respect Kim and Kyle's bond enough to just dismiss Kim out of solidarity with or affection for Kyle; they've tried to drive a wedge between the sisters on multiple occasions. Lisa calling Kathy (Avanzino Richards) Hilton last season to discuss Kyle's lack of support for her, as zoeysmom mentioned, proves that Lisa doesn't have a ton of regard for Kyle's familial security.

[lunastartron]

Last season's finale is on and rewatching highlights the erratic, nonsensical quality of Yolanda's behavior when contrasted with the recent premiere. In addition to the bizarre "don't touch me! don't you ever touch me!" outburst, she also claims Ken "pointed" at her (she even does a nice little demo in her th) when he called her stupid in Puerto Rico. The editors helpfully juxtaposed her claim against a flashback that shows he did no such thing. The fantasies she seems to believe make me wonder if she has some sort of personality disorder previously kept under wraps. Also of interest was a pan over the placeholders at the Dream Team supper; she spelled "Ken" "KENN."

[GreatKazu]

For some reason, the Foster Malibu Castle looks big when they show an outside shot, but when there are indoor scenes, the house seems small. I am guessing we are only worthy of looking at that piano, the kitchen and the fridge.

 

Regarding the Palm Spring house business, I don't believe that Kim was duped out of it by Kyle and/or Mauricio unless I'm willing to believe that they also managed to dupe Kathy, a 1/3 owner of the house, as well.

Going by how Kim is twisting the pit-bull attacks to put the blame on the victims, my opinion is Kim is, and has been since day one, that she is  full of shit when it comes to her allegations about the house. In her pickled mind, how she lost the house doesn't matter, in the end she is the victim. Isn't that Kim's whole shtick? She is/was an addict. Addicts are the perpetual victims of everyone. Addicts will throw shade at anyone and everyone for the things they do when it is in the best interest of the addict and those around them. If Kim was told her portion of the home was going to be transferred for the best interest of the property and all involved, in her mind, that is thievery.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I don't like any of these women very much but I find myself coming to Lisa's defense time and again. She is not as bad a person as she's made out to be.

 

I think it's probably both what I said and what you said. You're right that Kim probably resents Lisa and Taylor because they were closer to Kyle at times than she was, and you're right that - at least in Lisa's case - her contempt for Kim likely stems, at least in part, from what Kyle has said about her. If Taylor and Lisa were asked off-the-record, they'd probably say that. But I also think people have unconscious and semi-conscious motivations for their actions, and that Kim scares them because she's living proof that their greatest dreams (beauty, fame, rich marriage) can turn into nightmares. Kim, by the sheer fact of her presence and personal history more than anything she says or does, makes them question their system of values, which is an uncomfortable process. In her dramatic function, Kim is the vanitas of RHOBH; she's the skull on the table, amidst the riches of the HWs, that reminds them of their mortal vanity.

 

I also don't think Taylor and Lisa actually respect Kim and Kyle's bond enough to just dismiss Kim out of solidarity with or affection for Kyle; they've tried to drive a wedge between the sisters on multiple occasions. Lisa calling Kathy (Avanzino Richards) Hilton last season to discuss Kyle's lack of support for her, as zoeysmom mentioned, proves that Lisa doesn't have a ton of regard for Kyle's familial security.

 

Lisa is either a good friend to Kyle or she isn't. Having contempt for Kim on behalf of Kyle says she does but she also wants to destroy Kyle's marriage and destroy her relationship with her sister? 

 

I doubt very much Lisa has fears about her marriage with Ken thus feels like Kim's future could be her own.

 

The notion that she is even slightly jealous of the drugged out Kim is ... nope, not seeing it either.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't go to a friends' sister to intervene in our friendship if I didn't believe in their familiar bond.

Last season's finale is on and rewatching highlights the erratic, nonsensical quality of Yolanda's behavior when contrasted with the recent premiere. In addition to the bizarre "don't touch me! don't you ever touch me!" outburst, she also claims Ken "pointed" at her (she even does a nice little demo in her th) when he called her stupid in Puerto Rico. The editors helpfully juxtaposed her claim against a flashback that shows he did no such thing. The fantasies she seems to believe make me wonder if she has some sort of personality disorder previously kept under wraps. Also of interest was a pan over the placeholders at the Dream Team supper; she spelled "Ken" "KENN."

 

But but but it is Lisa who is shady, who doesn't admit to anything, let alone apologize.

 

The damn reunion was all about Lisa admitting and apologizing to these hags. 

[Lakewood27]

Watching the original cast - is a reminder what has sorely been missing - the opulent Beverly Hills lifestyle - that was suppose to set it apart from the housewife franchise. Instead, we're stuck with low class Brandi Glanville, who really brought this show down when she came on board.

Yup. I stopped watching when Brandi became an official 'housewife', but continued to follow the goings-on via TWoP. This is my first time back, as I'm hoping Brandi gets the comeuppance she deserves this season.

[vrocotamy]

If Lisa has been truly manipulating things and her clumsier efforts never made it to air or she was shielded by production, I don't consider it throwing her under the bus to finally show the "real" Lisa. I can believe that she got a little sloppy but I think in Lisa's case that there's just so long that a faker and a fraud can get away with their crap, fraud is too strong of a word but I can't think of another. Lisa has been on camera stirring the pot since season one, she has been explicitly called out for stirring the pot and other misdeeds since season 2. IMO the main reason that Lisa had the wind at her back was that the audience liked her more than they liked her adversary, so if there was no smoking gun, many chose to believe that the person going up against Lisa was lying, jealous or crazy. Actually IMO there was a smoking gun a time or two, but it was ignored or rationalized.

Again I think that if you hang around long enough on a candid reality show, some kind of fall is inevitable, especially if you are being fake and engaging in gamesmanship. However much more than production throwing Lisa under the bus or being ganged up on or plotted against by resentful castmates, Lisa did it to herself, because she stated at the very first reunion that the cameras capture the true person and then went on to boast about how honest, honorable, ballsy and straight-forward she was and then proceeded to contradict / not live up to her self-proclaimed hype.

Lisa did it to herself by:

- guffawing and then excusing Brandi's abhorrent behavior towards new girl Joyce. I think that it was particularly telling to see Lisa belly laughing at Brandi antics and even doing talking heads saying that the crap that Brandi was doing wasn't right but it was funny <laugh, laugh> and IIRC she made another comment to the effect that Joyce was getting mean girled and big whoop. And then that gets juxtaposed that against later in the season Lisa crying to Ken on the beach and telling him in a little girl voice that the others were being mean to her, and then later on leaving the dinner and then checking out of the hotel.

- calling people out as she has done throughout the series culminating in her going after Kyle and Mauricio at the season 3 reunion, discussing the tabloid rumors about Mauricio and then justifying it as the elephant in the room, and then showing ultra-sensitivity when she was called out in Puerto Rico and when Brandi brought up her past financial issues.

- other small scenes of Lisa being gossipy, pot-stirring and / or shady.

- being part of Vanderpump Rules, specifically showing her vulgar and classless side and tolerance of unsavory people and their shenanigans.

Lisa is still very popular and her place on the show is well-cemented, but the luster on her Queen Bee crown has definitely been tarnished and IMO Lisa herself and the passage of time are the main culprits, as opposed to Lisa being conspired against or thrown under the bus.

 

Hey, I think you're right that Lisa's fan favorite status saved her in Seasons 1-3 from being called out for manipulation and pot-stirring, and that Lisa's own bravado has been part of her undoing. I don't think Lisa being "thrown under the bus" is so exceptional; as you say, it's part of the cycle of being on candid reality TV.  Bravo tends to cultivate trust with certain cast members for a few seasons by giving them good edits and then exposing their ham-handed machinations (which are themselves encouraged by production.) From the season's first two episodes, I  think Bravo will do a lot this season to shore up Lisa in order to protect the show's declining ratings. Brandi (and maybe Kim?) are the ones up for the chopping block.

 

Lisa is either a good friend to Kyle or she isn't. Having contempt for Kim on behalf of Kyle says she does but she also wants to destroy Kyle's marriage and destroy her relationship with her sister?

 

I doubt very much Lisa has fears about her marriage with Ken thus feels like Kim's future could be her own.

 

The notion that she is even slightly jealous of the drugged out Kim is ... nope, not seeing it either.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't go to a friends' sister to intervene in our friendship if I didn't believe in their familiar bond.

 

 

Methinks you've read my interpretation differently than I intended. I never said Lisa was jealous of Kim as she is now - but maybe she's a bit jealous of Kim as she was 30 years ago. I don't think Lisa would feel such a need to make her contempt clear about Kim if she (or, better said, her personal history) wasn't a bit of a vanitas to Lisa's diamonds and roses, since Lisa is so clearly superior to Kim. I also don't think showing contempt for a friend's beloved, but fucked-up sibling (even if that friend has severe issues with their sibling) is a sign of being a good friend. Friends shouldn't screw with family. Nor is going to the other sister to discuss your issues with that friend, particularly if she was trying to drive a wedge between Kathy and Kyle. I think it's possible that these people have often complex and contradictory motivations in their actions. I think these women are all strategic, but also - like all people - have actions that exceed their intentionality.

 

I think that David Foster has earned a boatload of money over the years but has lost significant chunks of his earnings in divorces.

 

 

ITA. Also in agreement with zoeysmom that they probably lost a lot of money on the Malibu house, both the lot and the construction. If you google David Foster, he has an estimated net worth of $30 million. Not too shabby, but it's not, as Scooby said, an impressive sum compared to people like Clive Davis, Berry Gordy, Rick Rubin, Russell Simmons, etc. who have had longer and more diversified careers as producers and spent more time as record company executives (even if David Foster is now chairman of Verve Music Group.) David Foster's producing career has been largely confined to "bombastic pop kitsch", as Rolling Stone said in 1985. I also think he lost some money in the '90s on a failed "boutique" record company (143 Records).

[FozzyBear]

Re Yo and David's finances: there's a difference between making a boatload of money and having a boatload of money. Some people can always find a way to be broke no matter what, just like some people can always find a way to be ok. I think most people fall in the middle, but I am amazed at some people's ability to constantly be on the edge no matter what. No idea if this applies to David F though. I do wonder if he's not as generous as Yo would have us believe. I've always suspected that the bestie act with Mohamed may be about the rather significant purse strings he controls. Maybe DavidF isn't willing to chip in for the kids (not his responsibility, just saying) or to send money to Yo's family or something.

[GreatKazu]

Did anything happen regarding Yolanda's claim that Ken manhandled her, and her resulting hysteria?  That's a major accusation, and it's strange that all's forgotten.

I did bring this up about four pages ago. With all the chatter about the housewives demanding apologies from one another, I posted asking about what about the apology YoFo owes Ken for her faux assault claims. Someone posted in response that YoFo had given an apology of sorts at the reunion. I can't remember all the deets from the reunion.

 

Fo shure Bravo and production has a hand in the show including what the cast can and can't reveal on air. Just recently, Brandi mentioned how Bravo added sound effects to that slap that we've seen in the trailer. Well, of course they did. As if that slap was hard enough to give off that sound. What it is all about, remains to be seen:

 

“I swear they added a sound effect to it! I might have been there and I don’t think it was like that,” she insisted. “I can’t tell you anything. I’ve got a list of what I’m allowed to talk about and I think I’ve broken all those rules.”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1623475/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-star-brandi-glanville-claims-bravo-added-sound-effects-to-slap/#0HuFwdAfp6pEwFvJ.99

Edited November 22, 2014 by GreatKazu

[vrocotamy]

Re: Mohamad's finances. I agree that the $200 million net worth estimate given by Google is probably quite low for him. The home featured on the show - the Palazzo Di Amore - is being offered at $195 million: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/9505-Lania-Ln_Beverly-Hills_CA_90210_M24262-15928?row=1.

Edited November 23, 2014 by vrocotamy

[WireWrap]

I did bring this up about four pages ago. With all the chatter about the housewives demanding apologies from one another, I posted asking about what about the apology YoFo owes Ken for her faux assault claims. Someone posted in response that YoFo had given an apology of sorts at the reunion. I can't remember all the deets from the reunion.

 

Fo shure Bravo and production has a hand in the show including what the cast can and can't reveal on air. Just recently, Brandi mentioned how Bravo added sound effects to that slap that we've seen in the trailer. Well, of course they did. As if that slap was hard enough to give off that sound. What it is all about, remains to be seen:

 

“I swear they added a sound effect to it! I might have been there and I don’t think it was like that,” she insisted. “I can’t tell you anything. I’ve got a list of what I’m allowed to talk about and I think I’ve broken all those rules.”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1623475/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-star-brandi-glanville-claims-bravo-added-sound-effects-to-slap/#0HuFwdAfp6pEwFvJ.99

I do not remember Yolanda apologizing to Ken at the reunion about her "assault' claim, wasn't it more of a "that's how I felt" thing, like some HWs are prone to do/say after they are proven wrong/mean? LOL

 

There have been reports that Brandi also has a Bravo/production Handler when she gives interviews anymore.  http://www.realitytea.com/2014/11/20/brandi-glanville-accuses-bravo-editing-making-look-worse-real-housewives-beverly-hills/

[WireWrap]

Hey, I think you're right that Lisa's fan favorite status saved her in Seasons 1-3 from being called out for manipulation and pot-stirring, and that Lisa's own bravado has been part of her undoing. I don't think Lisa being "thrown under the bus" is so exceptional; as you say, it's part of the cycle of being on candid reality TV.  Bravo tends to cultivate trust with certain cast members for a few seasons by giving them good edits and then exposing their ham-handed machinations (which are themselves encouraged by production.) From the season's first two episodes, I  think Bravo will do a lot this season to shore up Lisa in order to protect the show's declining ratings. Brandi (and maybe Kim?) are the ones up for the chopping block.

 

 

Methinks you've read my interpretation differently than I intended. I never said Lisa was jealous of Kim as she is now - but maybe she's a bit jealous of Kim as she was 30 years ago. I don't think Lisa would feel such a need to make her contempt clear about Kim if she (or, better said, her personal history) wasn't a bit of a vanitas to Lisa's diamonds and roses, since Lisa is so clearly superior to Kim. I also don't think showing contempt for a friend's beloved, but fucked-up sibling (even if that friend has severe issues with their sibling) is a sign of being a good friend. Friends shouldn't screw with family. Nor is going to the other sister to discuss your issues with that friend, particularly if she was trying to drive a wedge between Kathy and Kyle. I think it's possible that these people have often complex and contradictory motivations in their actions. I think these women are all strategic, but also - like all people - have actions that exceed their intentionality.

 

 

ITA. Also in agreement with zoeysmom that they probably lost a lot of money on the Malibu house, both the lot and the construction. If you google David Foster, he has an estimated net worth of $30 million. Not too shabby, but it's not, as Scooby said, an impressive sum compared to people like Clive Davis, Berry Gordy, Rick Rubin, Russell Simmons, etc. who have had longer and more diversified careers as producers and spent more time as record company executives (even if David Foster is now chairman of Verve Music Group.) David Foster's producing career has been largely confined to "bombastic pop kitsch", as Rolling Stone said in 1985. I also think he lost some money in the '90s on a failed "boutique" record company (143 Records).

I really do not think Lisa is jealous of Kim at any time period, past or present, I don't think any of them are except maybe Kyle (past). I do think Kyle has influenced both Lisa and Taylor in how they view Kim but she, Kim, has also proven herself to the other HWs as unreliable, inconsiderate, unstable, selfish (beyond normal HW standards) all on her own without any help from Kyle. I would think the words disgust, pity and scorn would be better words for how Lisa and the other HWs feel about what Kim threw away due to her lifelong/adult addictions, not jealously.

 

As far as Lisa going to Kathy about Kyle, is anyone, other than Kim, making this claim? Did Kyle confirm this happened, did Kathy confirm this happened or did Lisa admit to meeting with Kathy for the sole reason of the Kyle/Lisa fight? I only remember Kim making that claim but I could have missed someone else confirming it. If it is only Kim, then I am suspect that it happened at all or that it happened the way Kim said, she will do/say anything, IMO, to make Lisa look bad. Kim has never, ever liked Lisa at all and has been very blatant about it just as Lisa has always shown distain for Kim.

[GreatKazu]

I do not remember Yolanda apologizing to Ken at the reunion about her "assault' claim, wasn't it more of a "that's how I felt" thing, like some HWs are prone to do/say after they are proven wrong/mean? LOL

Ooh, I have no clue, none. LOL  Like I posted, I can't remember all that was said at the reunion. If someone wants to provide a link to that, I'd love it. I am still wondering if Kim ever apologized for blasting Lisa and Ken for missing her daughter's grad party, even though they SENT A GIFT!  Shit! All of these mofos get their panties in a twist over some of the most petty crap, it is pitiful. Kim is so fucking self-centered, but, that is the life of an addict. Unless, she was always a selfish prick. Blaming an addict's behavior on their addiction, is sometimes too good of an excuse for someone who just has bad character and qualities.

Edited November 23, 2014 by GreatKazu

[lunastartron]

I do not remember Yolanda apologizing to Ken at the reunion about her "assault' claim, wasn't it more of a "that's how I felt" thing, like some HWs are prone to do/say after they are proven wrong/mean? LOL

 

There have been reports that Brandi also has a Bravo/production Handler when she gives interviews anymore.  http://www.realitytea.com/2014/11/20/brandi-glanville-accuses-bravo-editing-making-look-worse-real-housewives-beverly-hills/

 

 

Ooh, I have no clue, none. LOL  Like I posted, I can't remember all that was said at the reunion. If someone wants to provide a link to that, I'd love it. I am still wondering if Kim ever apologized for blasting Lisa and Ken for missing her daughter's grad party, even though they SENT A GIFT!  Shit! All of these mofos get their panties in a twist over some of the most petty crap, it is pitiful. Kim is so fucking self-centered, but, that is the life of an addict. Unless, she was always a selfish prick. Blaming an addict's behavior on their addiction, is sometimes too good of an excuse for someone who just has bad character and qualities.

 

Yolanda definitively did NOT apologize to Ken at the reunion. In fact, she doubled down on her claim. Ken categorically denied the accusation and pretty accurately described what happened (that he was raising his finger in emphasis and she swiped down), then said, "play the tape," or something synonymous. For whatever reason, Andy did not take the opportunity to create that gotcha moment. He seemed weirdly deferential to Yolanda for most of the reunion, even stating that she was doing a "good job of breaking everything down." Even though that's his own job. Yolanda, when pressed with Ken's challenge about the footage, declared something like, "I don't need to see the tape. I know what happened."

[WireWrap]

Ooh, I have no clue, none. LOL  Like I posted, I can't remember all that was said at the reunion. If someone wants to provide a link to that, I'd love it. I am still wondering if Kim ever apologized for blasting Lisa and Ken for missing her daughter's grad party, even though they SENT A GIFT!  Shit! All of these mofos get their panties in a twist over some of the most petty crap, it is pitiful. Kim is so fucking self-centered, but, that is the life of an addict. Unless, she was always a selfish prick. Blaming an addict's behavior on their addiction, is sometimes too good of an excuse for someone who just has bad character and qualities.

LOL I know, they can come across as so petty/childish over some of the stupidest things to get upset about! I swear, sometimes my 3 year old G is more mature!  The short time that Kim was shown "sober/clean" on the show have shown her to be a very selfish and nasty woman over all with a quirky/twisted sense of humor at times. Of course, life long addiction can and usually does damage the brain so we may never know what she was really like as a person before her addictions took over.

Yolanda definitively did NOT apologize to Ken at the reunion. In fact, she doubled down on her claim. Ken categorically denied the accusation and pretty accurately described what happened (that he was raising his finger in emphasis and she swiped down), then said, "play the tape," or something synonymous. For whatever reason, Andy did not take the opportunity to create that gotcha moment. He seemed weirdly deferential to Yolanda for most of the reunion, even stating that she was doing a "good job of breaking everything down." Even though that's his own job. Yolanda, when pressed with Ken's challenge about the footage, declared something like, "I don't need to see the tape. I know what happened."

I think Andy is enamored with Yolanda, or more so David and what he can bring to the show guest wise. I am sure that he is counting on that connection for his WWHL show as well.

[vrocotamy]

I really do not think Lisa is jealous of Kim at any time period, past or present, I don't think any of them are except maybe Kyle (past). I do think Kyle has influenced both Lisa and Taylor in how they view Kim but she, Kim, has also proven herself to the other HWs as unreliable, inconsiderate, unstable, selfish (beyond normal HW standards) all on her own without any help from Kyle. I would think the words disgust, pity and scorn would be better words for how Lisa and the other HWs feel about what Kim threw away due to her lifelong/adult addictions, not jealously.

 

As far as Lisa going to Kathy about Kyle, is anyone, other than Kim, making this claim? Did Kyle confirm this happened, did Kathy confirm this happened or did Lisa admit to meeting with Kathy for the sole reason of the Kyle/Lisa fight? I only remember Kim making that claim but I could have missed someone else confirming it. If it is only Kim, then I am suspect that it happened at all or that it happened the way Kim said, she will do/say anything, IMO, to make Lisa look bad. Kim has never, ever liked Lisa at all and has been very blatant about it just as Lisa has always shown distain for Kim.

 

It's kind of pointless to keep arguing my point, I suppose - since I have a more sympathetic view of Kim (and, at this point, Kyle) than most people here do - but jealousy wasn't the word I used in my initial post about Kim and Lisa/Taylor, etc. The replying poster put the word in my mouth and misread my post in the process, removing all nuance. The word I used was contempt, but it's contempt based on a certain insecurity on the other cast members' part, about their mortality, as it were.

 

At least in her dramatic function on the show, Kim is the vanitas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanitas.  She's a symbol of the futility of the other women's material striving. She's the "Hotel California" of the show, proving that you can check in any time you like to the race for the good life, but you can never leave. The other women (and many others) might try to blame her misfortunes - she had the best entertainment career and married the best of any of them, but now has the least - solely on her addictions*, but the moralistic part of me would like Kim to be on RHOBH to show that the cast members' materialism and fame-whoring is doomed to turn against them in the end. Whenever Lisa declares bankruptcy and Yolanda's King David leaves her, they'll realize the skull is in their dressing room or their glass refrigerator, staring them in the face - and it was there all along.

 

Or I'd like to think they will. We don't really know what any of these women are like in their lives outside the show. We do know, however, how they're portrayed on TV - and, if this were a purely "fictional" series, Kim would only be there to be the vanitas.

 

*It's also easy to assume that Kim's career and marriages failed because of her addictions, but I suspect it's more that her career and marriages failed in the '80s and early '90s and the alcoholism came along in the process (as well as her anxiety disorders) because of her inability to cope. Maybe it's a chicken or the egg question. Sometimes things fall apart.

Edited November 23, 2014 by vrocotamy

[WireWrap]

It's kind of pointless to keep arguing my point, I suppose - since I have a more sympathetic view of Kim (and, at this point, Kyle) than most people here do - but jealousy wasn't the word I used in my initial post about Kim and Lisa/Taylor, etc. The replying poster put the word in my mouth and misread my post in the process, removing all nuance. The word I used was contempt, but it's contempt based on a certain insecurity on the other cast members' part, about their mortality, as it were. At least in her dramatic function on the show, Kim is the vanitas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanitas.  She's a symbol of the futility of the other women's material striving. She's the "Hotel California" of the show, proving that you can check in any time you like to the race for the good life, but you can never leave. The other women (and many others) might try to blame her misfortunes - she had the best entertainment career and married the best of any of them, but now has the least - solely on her addictions*, but the moralistic part of me would like Kim to be on RHOBH to show that the cast members' materialism and fame-whoring is doomed to turn against them in the end. Whenever Lisa declares bankruptcy and Yolanda's King David leaves her, they'll realize the skull is in their dressing room or their glass refrigerator, staring them in the face - and it was there all along.

 

*It's also easy to assume that Kim's career and marriages failed because of her addictions, but I suspect it's more that her career and marriages failed in the '80s and early '90s and the alcoholism came along in the process (as well as her anxiety disorders) because of her inability to cope. All that glitters isn't gold.

Ok, so I gather that you think Kim serves as a "warning" to the others that what they have, fame, fortune, ect, is fleeting. If that is the case I think you are far deeper than any of the HWs are. I don't think any of them, Lisa, Taylor, Camille, Adrienne, Yolanda, Brandi or even Kyle go that deep thinking about anything let alone trying to figure out Kim or their feelings toward her. I think they have basic reactions to her behavior both and off camera in the time they have known her, along with what Kyle as told them and that is the basis of their contempt/pity/frustrations of/for/with her. 

 

I do not like Kim at all but I do have sympathy for Kyle in regards to Kim. As for her divorces being due to her addictions, that I do not know about, the book HH, says that she cheated on both husbands and that she divorced them after meeting and cheating with the new guy each time. Both Kyle and Taylor have said that Kim has been an addict most of her adult life and I believe them. I think Kim was messed up well before she ever married and had kids, her mother did a job on all 3 girls IMO.

 

I am sorry if you felt I was trying to argue with you, that was not my intent at all. For me it is a discussion, 1 in which I see how others view Kim, or any of the HWs and a chance to learn/see a different point of view. A learning experience.

[vrocotamy]

Ok, so I gather that you think Kim serves as a "warning" to the others that what they have, fame, fortune, ect, is fleeting. If that is the case I think you are far deeper than any of the HWs are. I don't think any of them, Lisa, Taylor, Camille, Adrienne, Yolanda, Brandi or even Kyle go that deep thinking about anything let alone trying to figure out Kim or their feelings toward her. I think they have basic reactions to her behavior both and off camera in the time they have known her, along with what Kyle as told them and that is the basis of their contempt/pity/frustrations of/for/with her. 

 

I do not like Kim at all but I do have sympathy for Kyle in regards to Kim. As for her divorces being due to her addictions, that I do not know about, the book HH, says that she cheated on both husbands and that she divorced them after meeting and cheating with the new guy each time. Both Kyle and Taylor have said that Kim has been an addict most of her adult life and I believe them. I think Kim was messed up well before she ever married and had kids, her mother did a job on all 3 girls IMO.

 

I am sorry if you felt I was trying to argue with you, that was not my intent at all. For me it is a discussion, 1 in which I see how others view Kim, or any of the HWs and a chance to learn/see a different point of view. A learning experience.

 

No problem. I actually decided I was too tired to work tonight and took a look at House of Hilton and - whoo boy! - does that book fill in some gaps about the Richards family. There are some major inconsistencies and moments of bad writing in the book, but most of the sources on Kim, Kyle, and Big and Little Kathy are pretty reliable: Kim's exes Monty Brinson and John Jackson (Brooke and Lil' Kim's father), Kyle and Kim's half-sister and stepmother Diane and Sylvia, Lil' Kathy's biological father's sister, and Kyle and Kim's step-sister Micky.

 

To be exact, following House of Hilton, Kim started seeing Gregg Davis while married to Monty Brinson, and then Gregg Davis divorced Kim at the request of his parents (his mother Barbara Davis is said to be much like Big Kathy, but richer.) Lil' Kathy then tried to fix up Kim with Donald Trump, apparently, which failed. Kim is featured fairly prominently in House of Hilton; her portrayal isn't as definitively negative as that of Big Kathy and Lil' Kathy (who are described as "devilish" and "cruel"), but she is described as very much her mother's pawn and echo, as "spending money like water", alcoholic, selfish, immature, and prone to tantrums, even if not malicious, scheming, or strong-willed like her mother or elder sister (see the account of her behavior around her father's death). Kimberly's father, seen on the show at the end of Season 4, very much blames Kim's issues on Big Kathy, who he says exerted a remarkable amount of control over her and who Kim misguidedly saw as a "moral compass" and model for her behavior. He relates that Kathy used to have Kim drive to pick Big Kathy up at various bars in LA and "perform" for her men-friends (nothing too dirty, but still...)

 

In contrast to the wealth of information on Kim, Kyle barely appears in the book. Mauricio and his mother are mentioned positively (she helped admit Kyle and Kim's father to Cedars Sinai), Kyle is said to have "chased" a man out of her mother's bed, and Kim and Kyle are said to have been played against each other by their mother after Kyle became more successful than Kim ca. 1980 with Watcher in the Woods.

Edited November 23, 2014 by vrocotamy

[swankie]

I'm reserving judgement of Lisa Rinna. I don't know her or her husband from previous work.

 

 

I don't watch Mad Men either but I will always remember the mad crush I had on Harry Hamlin from the movie Clash Of The Titans (1981 version) and the 80's show LA Law.  I also remember the big deal wedding to Nicolette Sheridan that turned out to only be a two year union.  She left him for Michael Bolton!  LOL!

[Kat20]

 

Regarding the Palm Spring house business, I don't believe that Kim was duped out of it by Kyle and/or Mauricio unless I'm willing to believe that they also managed to dupe Kathy, a 1/3 owner of the house, as well.

 

In her book, Kyle explains the selling of the Palm Springs house and the limogate. She also says that she's like Big Kathy in the sense that she devotes a lot of time to her kids. Big Kathy once remarked, "It's hard for me to be married. All I care about is my kids." BK married four times.

[swankie]

Why in the world would Brandi announce on tv that her sons sleep in the same bed with her?  I did hear that correctly, right?

 

Those poor boys.  But I'm sure they won't be teased about that (sarcasm).

 

 

Brandi is just stupid enough to think that her boys still sleeping with her makes her a good mother.  She has no idea what being a good parent is.  Why her husband hasn't sued her for custody is beyond me.  He may not be much of a person morally, but at least he cares enough to keep them off camera so that maybe their friends won't associate them with their drunken wretch of a mother so easily.  I feel for them also.

[zoeysmom]

LOL I know, they can come across as so petty/childish over some of the stupidest things to get upset about! I swear, sometimes my 3 year old G is more mature!  The short time that Kim was shown "sober/clean" on the show have shown her to be a very selfish and nasty woman over all with a quirky/twisted sense of humor at times. Of course, life long addiction can and usually does damage the brain so we may never know what she was really like as a person before her addictions took over.

I think Andy is enamored with Yolanda, or more so David and what he can bring to the show guest wise. I am sure that he is counting on that connection for his WWHL show as well.

I have often wondered if perhaps Andy goes a little easy on Yolanda because of her Lyme's brain.  I also think that Ken repeatedly calling Yolanda stupid is not something Andy wants to showcase.  It was fairly obvious Ken did not manhandle or really touch Yolanda.

 

To me Yolanda is irksome because she constantly insists that men not be involved in the women's discussions.  Perhaps it is because Dvid is often absent-although he was a t the Beverly Hills Hilton the night of last season's finale.

[swankie]

I'm disappointed to learn Lisa Rinna caved to the pressures of Hollywood and its standards of beauty *again*, despite knowing the blowfish lips were not a good look on her. Makes me think much less of her since this wasn't her first trip to the rodeo.

 

 

I'm thinking that maybe she went back to the blowfish lips because they have basically become part of her persona.  When she had them reduced, she didn't look like herself anymore.  Kind of like the way Jennifer Gray looked so different after getting her nose fixed that nobody recognized her and her career literally ended afterward.  I know I can't remember Lisa Rinna without her gigantic lips.  Those before pictures in that article don't even look like her to me.  I'm just used to seeing her with that punched in the mouth look.

[zoeysmom]

It's kind of pointless to keep arguing my point, I suppose - since I have a more sympathetic view of Kim (and, at this point, Kyle) than most people here do - but jealousy wasn't the word I used in my initial post about Kim and Lisa/Taylor, etc. The replying poster put the word in my mouth and misread my post in the process, removing all nuance. The word I used was contempt, but it's contempt based on a certain insecurity on the other cast members' part, about their mortality, as it were.

 

At least in her dramatic function on the show, Kim is the vanitas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanitas.  She's a symbol of the futility of the other women's material striving. She's the "Hotel California" of the show, proving that you can check in any time you like to the race for the good life, but you can never leave. The other women (and many others) might try to blame her misfortunes - she had the best entertainment career and married the best of any of them, but now has the least - solely on her addictions*, but the moralistic part of me would like Kim to be on RHOBH to show that the cast members' materialism and fame-whoring is doomed to turn against them in the end. Whenever Lisa declares bankruptcy and Yolanda's King David leaves her, they'll realize the skull is in their dressing room or their glass refrigerator, staring them in the face - and it was there all along.

 

Or I'd like to think they will. We don't really know what any of these women are like in their lives outside the show. We do know, however, how they're portrayed on TV - and, if this were a purely "fictional" series, Kim would only be there to be the vanitas.

 

*It's also easy to assume that Kim's career and marriages failed because of her addictions, but I suspect it's more that her career and marriages failed in the '80s and early '90s and the alcoholism came along in the process (as well as her anxiety disorders) because of her inability to cope. Maybe it's a chicken or the egg question. Sometimes things fall apart.

I think this season will be interesting when it comes to dealing with Kim's anxiety and addiction issues.  I saw an interview with Eileen Davidson where she was asked about Teresa's Giudice's prison sentence-very straight forward response-why go on a reality show if you have committed crimes or are committing crimes.  So with Kim and her stories of being such a hard worker in the entertainment industry (granted Kim worked for about 10 years a s a child) it will be interesting to see how her excuses fly with Eileen.  I may be wrong but I am under the impression the soap actors are truly hard workers and with Eileen she is on not one but two soaps currently and played two roles on one of the soaps.

 

I am sympathetic to Kyle or any family member that has had to deal with a family member with an addiction problem.  Not only has she had to clean up Kim's messes but Kim has held her to an unrealistic standard of denying and keeping Kim's addiction under wraps even though it was being chronicled on film.  If I were in Kyle's position, I too would question much of Kim's behavior and wonder if it was substance fueled.  I don't see it as wishing her sobriety to fail but more as a realistic check after Kim has used the old taken the wrong prescription med as a excuse for her behavior.  I have often wondered if Kim is such a poor traveler-why doesn't she just ask to be flown out a day or so before the others so her travel clock can adjust?  It seems like a pretty simple fix and one I think she is entitled to and should not include a leave early clause.   So far Kim has had a rough time of travel on the show. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Anyone know if Kim's got a boyfriend?  Remembering that awful Ken gives me shivers.

[copacabana]

Re Kim's addictions and Kyle feeling obliged to clean up after her, it's hard as hell to do but Kyle might have done her sister a bigger and more long lasting favor by not fixing her messes.  No way to tell really but Kyle might have gotten some much needed help and support from either Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. Kim has been both exploited and coddled all her life -- now Bravo is doing it.  She'll never get well as long as she's on TV.  She doesn't need a dog really and certainly not that one -- She needs a tough, experienced, and supportive sponsor and probably an extended period of time in rehab. 28 days isn't going to do it for her.  6 months, court ordered, might be more like it.  Along with an in-depth reevaluation of whatever meds she's currently taking.  It's amazing how many doctors and psychiatrists prescribe without knowing what they're doing and end up making the situation worse. 

 

Re Yolanda and men staying out of women business (Nene tm), this is classic courtesan behavior and highly ironic given that Yolanda's, for all her talk of "balls" (yuck!) and earning her keep since childhood, is heavily dependent on the rich, successful men she's managed to snag with her beauty.  She basks in their accomplishments, why not?, and prides herself on being the house-managing engine that makes it possible for them to continue to work work work.  Nothing wrong with any of that and it can be gratifying but one can see how basically she remains an empty vessel.  That's what Gigi is there to do -- give her that outlet and pick up where she left off.

 

If it's true that Gigi has already dropped out of college to pursue modelling full time, then I would wager that Yolanda was probably more than okay with that -- stupidly. I got the impression that Yolanda thought a college education at this point was a waste of time. She will be grooming her daughter to follow her path down to the letter.  Here's to hoping that the young lady gets back to some form of studying at some point. 

 

Interesting to note also that the Gigi modeling pictures we saw on screen all involved a glaring lack of clothing. She's going in for the sexy beast line of work -- let's hope Tom Ford makes better use of her and puts some garments on that frame. 

 

Re Kim serving as a warning to the other HWs, per vrocotomay, I tend to agree with this.  She's obviously a cautionary tale in the flesh, a prime example of a front-loaded life, and a further example of how the good life can fall apart as the result of bad decisions, bad habits, and bad luck.  I would imagine the other ladies probably talk about this when the cameras aren't rolling.  It's a classic Hollywood story and while these ladies may not be all that deep, I'm sure they've seen A Star is Born, Valley of the Dolls, The Patty Duke Story, and any number of Lifetime movies.  Maybe even The Day of the Locust -- not likely. 

 

For all of their pretending otherwise, it's pretty clear that they feel contempt for Kim--and fear the lack of control and loss of success she represents.  Whenever she really takes her dysfunctions too far and the other women are put in a place where their true feelings for her just can't be disguised, their disgust with her comes tumbling out and they find a way to further humiliate her, verbally.  She has no real friends in that group and, aside from the occasional alliance, she seems incapable of being a real friend herself.  It's no accident that she identifies so strongly with Kingsley.  

[Lisin]

OK Gang! We've let you get a bit off topic and for that I apologize. Please take in depth discussion of fights/events from past seasons to the Past Seasons topic and in depth discussion of a Housewife that doesn't have much to do with this specific episode to that Housewife's topic.

 

Off topic posts from here on out will be moved with no warning so if you are looking for something that was here and isn't now it is likely in the Past Seasons topic or a particular Housewife's topic. Thank you.

[heebiejeebie]

 Mo popped up first show in.  I want bets on how many episodes he manages to finagle this season.

Edited November 23, 2014 by heebiejeebie

[zoeysmom]

 Mo popped up first show in.  I want bets on how many episodes he manages to finagle this season.

I want Mohamed to keep popping up until he and Brandi are forced into a conversation.  I think seeing Mohamed had far to do with Brandi's anxiety than seeing Andrienne.  He seems to be Lisa's go to side kick.

[tulip555]

Last season's finale is on and rewatching highlights the erratic, nonsensical quality of Yolanda's behavior when contrasted with the recent premiere. In addition to the bizarre "don't touch me! don't you ever touch me!" outburst, she also claims Ken "pointed" at her (she even does a nice little demo in her th) when he called her stupid in Puerto Rico. The editors helpfully juxtaposed her claim against a flashback that shows he did no such thing. The fantasies she seems to believe make me wonder if she has some sort of personality disorder previously kept under wraps. Also of interest was a pan over the placeholders at the Dream Team supper; she spelled "Ken" "KENN."

IMO, most of these women have a personality disorder, LOL....I think it's required for "admission" 

to a reality show cast.

[Lura]

I went to BRAVO today to read the cast blogs about this episode, but I didn't find any.  I was interested in their takes on the White Party and also how they felt about each other after one episode.  Did I miss the blogs, or are they not up yet?  Thanks!

[WireWrap]

I went to BRAVO today to read the cast blogs about this episode, but I didn't find any.  I was interested in their takes on the White Party and also how they felt about each other after one episode.  Did I miss the blogs, or are they not up yet?  Thanks!

They are all there, well, except for Kim's blog. She rarely writes 1 to begin with and with the Kingsley biting problem and if she is really helping to care for her sick/dying ex husband, I doubt we will see a blog from her at all this season. Oh, and there is no blog from Eileen, she does not appear on the show until episode 3.

[ScoobieDoobs]

For all of their pretending otherwise, it's pretty clear that they feel contempt for Kim--and fear the lack of control and loss of success she represents.  Whenever she really takes her dysfunctions too far and the other women are put in a place where their true feelings for her just can't be disguised, their disgust with her comes tumbling out and they find a way to further humiliate her, verbally.  She has no real friends in that group and, aside from the occasional alliance, she seems incapable of being a real friend herself.  It's no accident that she identifies so strongly with Kingsley.

 

 

Sheesh, this makes me think bout how Kim has THE fuckin' worst work ethic.  Whether it's due to her addictions or alcoholism or "recovery" or whatever, it's amazing to me Satan Andy is still willing to put up with her.  Knowing how Satan Andy operates, I'm sure it's only to use her as either an object of humiliation or as someone for the others to fight with.  

 

I'm wondering how she's gonna get along with Rinna & Eileen.  Both of these gals are extremely professional & have an exceptionally strong work ethic.  Don't be fooled by Rinna's ditzy personna.  In many ways she's extremely no-nonsense & I suspect will have absolutely no patience for Kim's bullshit.  Certainly, neither will Eileen.  I see a ton of friction ahead.  I'm buckling up my couch seat belt cuz it's gonna get awfully bumpy.

 

We know Kim's a mess.  But is she a pitiable mess at this point?  Caring for a sick & dying ex-hubby could make us care bout her again.  But this shit with her sticking so stubbornly to a dog that has horribly bitten her niece, her best friend & several others, will pretty much wipe out any ops for audience sympathy for her.

 

I want Mohamed to keep popping up until he and Brandi are forced into a conversation.

 

 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but I'm kinda fascinated by Mo.  No, not by his hair.  I honestly don't give a shit bout that at all.  And it's not just his house or his general aura -- which I find both infinitely interesting.  But it's how everybody reacts to him.  Make no mistake, Mo is a billionaire.  And he's the only billionaire on the show.  And everybody he interacts with on the show knows he's a billionaire -- whether the audience knows it or not.  And they treat him as such -- with a mixture of respect & deference & maybe some undercurrent of fear.

 

I'd like to say Yo is a sensible gal cuz she has said some very sensible things.  But she's also contradicted herself often & has said things which made absolutely no sense at all.  When it comes to Mo, Yo always sounds mostly upbeat, casual, easy/breezy & sensible.  At least that's what she wants to portray on camera to the world.  Has she always felt this way bout Mo?  Me suspects not.  

 

Yo had to know what she was getting into when she married him & if she didn't, she ultimately found out.  I remember her making a comment that she left him cuz he couldn't be faithful to her -- and that being faithful wasn't his style at all.  Remember the time she noted how disdainful he was when she went to his place & was wearing sneakers?  She said he only liked "the beautiful Yolanda", who was always made up, with perfect hair & makeup -- the glamour gal, forever in high heels & an evening gown.  Who has the strength to keep that shit up?  Maybe Yo knew she couldn't or was too exhausted keeping that shit up.

 

Anyhoo, in the scheme of things -- divorcing a billionaire, Yo got a shitty settlement.  Well, she musta had a crap pre-nup, but Mo may have been somewhat more generous than what the pre-nup stated.  So while Yo has stated over & over & over (ad nauseum & maybe even in this ep too cuz she says it non-stop) how she wants to get along well with Mo for the sake of the children, we know better.  

 

Yo knows & we know it's in her best interest to keep Mo happy.  Would anyone treat the Godfather or Tony Soprano any differently?  I remember, after Mo's very marked disapproval of Yo wearing sneakers, the next time we saw her at his house she was wearing uncomfortable, impractical high heels & had to be carried across a garden where they were filming.  Seems like whatever Mo wants, Mo gets.  Guess it's good to be a billionaire.  They get what they want & anyone nearby serves their wishes.  Anyone seen Foxcatcher?  Ahem.

 

But I dig it when Mo pops up.  On the surface, he seems very, very nice & almost kinda fun.  He's never anything other than friendly & genial & well-mannered and he seems to have a really good sense of humor.  And yet there's that sorta skeery undercurrent -- that this is a billionaire & ya better be respectful to him or . . . 

Edited November 24, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[WireWrap]

Sheesh, this makes me think bout how Kim has THE fuckin' worst work ethic.  Whether it's due to her addictions or alcoholism or "recovery" or whatever, it's amazing to me Satan Andy is still willing to put up with her.  Knowing how Satan Andy operates, I'm sure it's only to use her as either an object of humiliation or as someone for the others to fight with.  

 

I'm wondering how she's gonna get along with Rinna & Eileen.  Both of these gals are extremely professional & have an exceptionally strong work ethic.  Don't be fooled by Rinna's ditzy personna.  In many ways she's extremely no-nonsense & I suspect will have absolutely no patience for Kim's bullshit.  Certainly, neither will Eileen.  I see a ton of friction ahead.  I'm buckling up my couch seat belt cuz it's gonna get awfully bumpy.

 

We know Kim's a mess.  But is she a pitiable mess at this point?  Caring for a sick & dying ex-hubby could make us care bout her again.  But this shit with her sticking so stubbornly to a dog that has horribly bitten her niece, her best friend & several others, will pretty much wipe out any ops for audience sympathy for her.

 

 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but I'm kinda fascinated by Mo.  No, not by his hair.  I honestly don't give a shit bout that at all.  And it's not just his house or his general aura -- which I find both infinitely interesting.  But it's how everybody reacts to him.  Make no mistake, Mo is a billionaire.  And he's the only billionaire on the show.  And everybody he interacts with on the show knows he's a billionaire -- whether the audience knows it or not.  And they treat him as such -- with a mixture of respect & deference & maybe some undercurrent of fear.

 

I'd like to say Yo is a sensible gal cuz she has said some very sensible things.  But she's also contradicted herself often & has said things which made absolutely no sense at all.  When it comes to Mo, Yo always sounds mostly upbeat, casual, easy/breezy & sensible.  At least that's what she wants to portray on camera to the world.  Has she always felt this way bout Mo?  Me suspects not.  

 

Yo had to know what she was getting into when she married him & if she didn't, she ultimately found out.  I remember her making a comment that she left him cuz he couldn't be faithful to her -- and that being faithful wasn't his style at all.  Remember the time she noted how disdainful he was when she went to his place & was wearing sneakers?  She said he only liked "the beautiful Yolanda", who was always made up, with perfect hair & makeup -- the glamour gal, forever in high heels & an evening gown.  Who has the strength to keep that shit up?  Maybe Yo knew she couldn't or was too exhausted keeping that shit up.

 

Anyhoo, in the scheme of things -- divorcing a billionaire, Yo got a shitty settlement.  Well, she musta had a crap pre-nup, but Mo may have been somewhat more generous than what the pre-nup stated.  So while Yo has stated over & over & over (ad nauseum & maybe even in this ep too cuz she says it non-stop) how she wants to get along well with Mo for the sake of the children, we know better.  

 

Yo knows & we know it's in her best interest to keep Mo happy.  Would anyone treat the Godfather or Tony Soprano any differently?  I remember, after Mo's very marked disapproval of Yo wearing sneakers, the next time we saw her at his house she was wearing uncomfortable, impracticable high heels & had to be carried across a garden where they were filming.  Seems like whatever Mo wants, Mo gets.  Guess it's good to be a billionaire.  They get what they want & anyone nearby serves their wishes.  Anyone seen Foxcatcher?  Ahem.

 

But I dig it when Mo pops up.  On the surface, he seems very, very nice & almost kinda fun.  He's never anything other than friendly & genial & well-mannered and he seems to have a really good sense of humor.  And yet there's that sorta skeery undercurrent -- that this is a billionaire & ya better be respectful to him or . . . 

It is funny to see there is at least 1 person on this show that can keep all the HWs and their husbands behaving! ITA about Mohammad, they all but bow to him when he walks in! LOL

Edited November 24, 2014 by WireWrap

[ScoobieDoobs]

It is funny to see there is at least 1 person on this show that can keep all the HWs and their husbands behaving! ITA about Mohammad, they all but bow to him when he walks in! LOL

 

 

And that certainly includes Kim too.  If Kim ever had to meet Mo, even she knows she'd have to wake herself the fuck outta whatever drug or booze induced haze she's sure to be in -- or suffer the consequences.  And just what would those consequences be -- of not heeding Mo's requests (orders)?  Well, Tony Soprano had Paulie Walnuts do his bidding.  Don't know the specifics on Mo, but I'm sure he has his . . .  er, henchmen.  Cue sinister/skeery music.

Edited November 24, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs