Thunderdome: Glee fandoms

[fakeempress]

 

Or why would Darren have a beard? It would hardly ruin his career if people thought he was gay.

Well, generally speaking, it still is a career risk. Even if things have progressed a lot, there's still stigma. Chris has mentioned how after being cast in Glee, he was told by some industry people he won't be getting to play certain roles because of his gay character. That, unfortunately, plays into the tinhattters' delusions, and they apply it indiscriminately to Chris&Darren, th 1D guys, the Teen Wolf guys, etc., often at the same time.

 

The thing with the CC tinhatters is that (most ) are in the extreme of the Klaine fandom, for obvious reasons. They took a few things the cast said or did when they weren't so painfully aware of the 24/7 fandom scrutiny, and blew it up beyond compare. For instance, in the Glee Live movie cast interviews, Ashley, Mark, and Darren joked that if Darren and Chris got married, Chris' name will be Chris Criss (which was a bit cringeworthy to say in public but I'm sure they've joked in private between themselves), and Darren quipped, never say never -- what  caracas mentioned as Darren playing around with it for a bit. He likes to play up to fandom - more in the beginning when things were new and exciting - but the no-boundaries fans took it as all serious. Or they took how Chris quipped "I need a cigarette now" in the Original Song BTS about the Klaine kiss, as completely earnest, and took the Klaine stage kiss at the final night of the second tour concert as real life because Darren joked how he was overcome with love for Chris. Such jokes and pranks totally fly over the head of some people without a sense of humour or reality boundaries. 

 

Don't know if it was done or just talked about as a plan - that a few tinhatters rented a house near Chris' old house, presumably to stalk him and Darren, who they expected to see there. 

 

The other thing with the tinhatters is they are Darren stans for the most part, and Chris is their self-insert. That's why the bulk of their hate goes to Mia, Will, Chris' friends, also Chris most of the time. They woobify Darren, convinced he is forced to be in the closet by his team against his will, and he is always totally unhappy in Mia's presence -- even when the guy is draped all over her in photos -- and that he sends them secret messages in various ways, like they have this elaborate fiction about the rings he wears being promise rings from Chris. Right now some are convinced that Chris was photoshopped next to his boyfriend in the picture Ashley posted from the Elton John's Oscar party, and that even Ashley is his PR friend, not real one. 

 

 

It was also why I was actually waiting for the Chris and Adam Lambert shipping when Adam joined the show, especially with how many who loathe Blaine, who was shipping Kurt and Elliot. I especially anticipated it because Adam Lambert himself has had his share of crazy shipping. Like Chris, he had people who hated his real life boyfriend and were convinced the guy was a beard and that Adam was really dating his bass player who for reasons unknown could not be publicly out.

I don't think there was ever any danger of tinhatting Chris and Adam Lambert, because usually this kind of tinhatting is about the obsession of fans (who often are straight females) with the straight guy (or guys as in the JJs case), not really about the gay guy/s, and it involves a conspiracy theory about having to hide. Adam and Chris won't have to hide for anything, as they're both out. Adam was heavily tinhatted with Kris Allen during their AI days, I think mostly by Kris' fans. I don't know about the bass player but if he "can't be publicly out" it's again the rationalisation about a "secret"; I know some fans just didn't like Adam's bf.

 

I think the tinhatting has been a grave eyeopener for Chris especially, like a sign of complete disrespect for his, and Darren's integrity, painting them as liars and manipulators. 

 

I've heard about the crazy Achele shippers as well, the same rules apply with "reading of cues", scrutinising random pictures, making up conspiracies. 

 

I am curious if any of it will make it into the YA book about the actor and his fans, that Chris announced with his last batch of fairy tale fiction. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by fakeempress

[phoenixrising]

I'm on my phone and quoting is a pain on the mobile version, but thank whoever said that Chris being jokey about CrissColfer would be probably be taken as predatory by some. I tried to explain this to my one Klaine friend (who isn't a RPSer) and she didn't get it. Also just doesn't seem to be Chris's personality.

[Danielle87]

Hmm, then maybe he's inconsistent because I'm pretty sure it was Wendy Williams show I saw that interview and he said that they'd been together for 7 years, since college. Or maybe I dreamt that. 

 

They've definitely been together since before Glee, there are pictures/videos of them together pre-Glee haircut, which makes the CC shipping even more funny.

[Ceeg]

The reason why the CrissColfer shippers are a different level of crazy than Achele or Monchele or Heya or any of the others is because they use the lack of Chris/Darren interaction as evidence of a secret love affair. The less Chris/Darren have to do with each other, outside of Glee, the more they tinhat. It's very strange. And they all feed into each other which only heightens the crazy.

 

And yeah, someone mentioned earlier, but there were some crazy Klainers who got in a twitter fight with Dot's wife because Dot was asked on twitter "Klaine or Brittana" and she answered back "Brittana", and that set some people off, and said she wasn't a good friend to Darren and Chris, and how could she not pick them, she doesn't respect them or their talent, etc. etc. and Dot's wife took the bait I guess.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Ceeg

[starri]

Chris Colfer was unfortunately in a very awkward position, there was no template for an out actor being paired with his straight co star with whom he had been linked in an onscreen romance that exploded in popularity.

Randy Harrison and Gale Harold on Queer as Folk.  It may not have had the reach that Glee did, but their IRL shippers were every bit as...ahem...tenacious.  There are some that are still carrying a torch, after more than a decade.

[camussie]

The reason why the CrissColfer shippers are a different level of crazy than Achele or Monchele or Heya or any of the others is because they use the lack of Chris/Darren interaction as evidence of a secret love affair.

 

 

I can't speak for other groups but I know the vocal but few crazy Achele shippers have done this as well.    There is also a video out there of Cory/Lea leaving, what I think is that Paley center event where Ryan was honored, with one or two of them in the crowd chanting to Cory go away.  We want Dianna.  And yet even with all of that I wouldn't say that fandom is more extreme than others.  It is just that most fandoms have a few vocal crazies (both supporters and detractors) that unfortunately end up drowning out the much larger reasonable middle.

Edited March 1, 2015 by camussie

[Ceeg]

I can't speak for other groups but I know the vocal but few crazy Achele shippers have done this as well.    

 

Well, yeah they do that now, but the bulk of Achele shipping hinges on the early days of Glee, when Lea and Dianna lived together and hung out a lot. Without that, there would be no basis for that ship. There is no such foundation for a CrissColfer ship.

 

But to clarify, I think all real person shippers are some level of delusional, because they all clearly have issues blurring fantasy and reality. I just think the CC shippers have far more fantasy and far less reality than the others. If Chris and Darren weren't playing an actual ship on television, there would literally be nothing left for these RPS kids.

 

ETA: I also think it's unfortunate that twitter gives these people the platform they need to participate in targeted harassment at anyone who does something to contradict their headcanon about whatever is happening. But, I guess there's really nothing that can be done about that, short of everyone deleting social media, which I doubt anyone's publicist would let them do. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Ceeg

[fakeempress]

 

The reason why the CrissColfer shippers are a different level of crazy than Achele or Monchele or Heya or any of the others is because they use the lack of Chris/Darren interaction as evidence of a secret love affair.

 

It's all so very irrational with the CCers. They take every lack of interaction as a sign of a secret affair because the guys are "forced to hide it", yet always expect and want them to be next to each other in all their public appearances. They wailed on Ashley's IG from the EJAF Oscar party: where is Darren, why is Darren not with them -- when Darren tweeted he was home. And funny thing, there is a strong Russian CCer contingent that always makes itself known on Chris' or Ashley's IG, and they know Chris' publicist can read Russian. 

 

 

There is no such foundation for a CrissColfer ship.

Yeah, it's a bit of a different mechanism, the foundation is all Klaine and self-inserting themselves as Chris for a LI for Darren. This is why Chris isn't shipped with Chord for instance, when Chord is usually papped solo (no evidence of gf should be even better for the rp shippers), and he and Chris seem quite friendly, and there are quite a few candid cast photos where they are hugging or physically close.  

Edited March 1, 2015 by fakeempress

[spiritof76]

So I wasn't really aware of any sort of fandom or what that entailed until Glee. And even then It wasn't until about the 2nd Season when I encountered it. The thing that really blew my mind, was the fan fiction. Not the actually Glee fan fiction about the characters (although some of that was a bit out there). No, I'm talking about the real-life fan fiction that people wrote about the real actors. I was not aware this was a thing! So people write stories (usually pretty graphic and sexual) about the real life actors in relationships. I actually like some fan fiction and I don't mind that it usually is of a sexual nature. But those are characters. There is just something that creeps me out about people writing super graphic stories about real people. Like I imagine if I was Lea or Dianna or Chris or Darren or Mark (the fanfiction people seem to pair him up with everyone) and I read something like that about myself I would be horrified. Maybe that's just me.

 

ETA Just imagine one of them at some fan event. "Hi! Nice to meet you? I write real-life fanfic. I just wrote one about you and two of your cast mates having a three-way. You should read it. Can I get a picture real quick?" 

Edited March 1, 2015 by spiritof76

[fakeempress]

 

Like I imagine if I was Lea or Dianna or Chris or Darren or Mark (the fanfiction people seem to pair him up with everyone) and I read something like that about myself I would be horrified.

Funny you should say that, cause I was just thinking about the explicit Glee RP fiction. 

 

During the book tour last year, Chris was asked in one interview if he was getting fanfic for his character. I think his mind immediately jumped to the RP fanfic you talk about. He started by saying he doesn't look at that because it's terrifying, how (his usual soundbite) some young girls think Glee is a documentary and try to validate everything on the show through the actors -- and then said he doesn't mind it if it's the characters, but when it's the actors "doing things to each other", it's uncomfortable, and too far because they are like siblings.

 

This interview was shredded to pieces by some people from these quarters:

1) Character ficcers - they thought Chris said all fic is terrifying and scary, and berated him how his books are also fanfic (which he has said himself actually) -- without realising that he was talking about the explicit kinds.

2)Those who took offense that fanfic is written by young girls (because a lot is by adults), and how Chris was denigrating young girls with the documentary remark (not realising he meant the CCers). 

3) RP ficcers who took enormous offense that Chris was appalled with RP fiction. They took him to shreds that he doesn't realise it is a form of literature, it's a means of self-expression, how there are amazingly talented RP writers - and the underlying tone was how dare he not be on 7th heaven when he gets explicit RP fic, drawings, manips, etc. about himself and a co-worker and not praise it at legitimate literature.  --- Such comments I saw myself, coming from grownups -- allegedly sane rational individuals, not tinhatters -- who didn't even pause to think how he must feel, and instead made it all about themselves and their huge entitlement.  They wrote whole miles long tumblr posts "calling him out".

 

If you'd like an example of how fans commodify the actors - here it is. 

 

Some actors are able to shrug RPF off, or even play up to the fans. I think Misha Collins from Supernatural is a name I've heard in this regard (not too sure cause I don't follow the show), but it depends a lot on the individual personality, and how able they are to dissociate themselves.

Edited March 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

While people have a right to write and read Real Person Fiction ( choices and all) why in the world would they APPROACH or offer such things to their actual subjects?

It just smacks me of delusional self entitlement to be that insensitive.

[fakeempress]

It's self entitlement and also lack of any boundaries. If you're fan, they owe you their life. Also, seeking validation though the actors.

 

Take the selfie craze. They have to take a selfie with you because you're a fan and you made them a star. A selfie validates you and your importance. I've seen people write vile tweets what a bitch Lea is and how she treated them like shit -- only to become clear that they were shouting at her from across the street as she was walking ahead and away, and when she didn't run towards them across traffic to take a selfie but just smiled at them and went her way -- what a bitch!

 

Or when some guy posted a video on UT of Chris and his family at Disneyworld, and ranted what a jerk Chris was. In the video you could hear the guy shouting at him to come take a picture, as Chris and family -- with bodyguard in tow no less -- were getting onto a ride. 

 

There are no lengths some cray fans and also legit stalkers will go. Didn't Ryan Murphy say how a fan somehow appeared on his doorstep (trespassing apparently), to hand him a script or fanfic ?

Edited March 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[Florinaldo]

Every fandom has its extreme factions and manifestations. I remember stumbling on a Doctor Who fanfic once where some of his various incarnations (or it may have been the actors themselves; it was a bit confused and I quickly stopped reading) got into group sex with each other. It turned me off fan fiction for good!

 

Many fans or even casual viewers do not know the meaning of boundaries and relentlessly pursue actors or any celebrities when they spot them in public, even those they do not particulary like, for an autograph, a selfie or a hug that they are "entitled" to. Some actors have no tolerance for it, others try to play along at least up to a point. A good number of them must hire people to intervene at the right moment to put an end to it or to prevent it from happening at all.
 

Given that the label has shown absolutely nil interest in ever releasing Darren's album, their outrage is a bit misdirected.

I don't think we know exactly why the album has not been released yet. There have been indications that he is reworking some or all of it, but there is nil evidence, unless one has a secret tap into the minds of Columbia executives, that the label has lost interest in it.

 

The other thing with the tinhatters is they are Darren stans for the most part, and Chris is their self-insert. That's why the bulk of their hate goes to Mia, Will, Chris' friends, also Chris most of the time.

Is this just an assumption or is there evidence to it? Myself, I thought it was the reverse since I remember that many CC fans thought at first that DC was cast as a "gift" to him from RM and that all of the other friends and "imaginary" significant others were just interfering with that plan.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Florinaldo

[fakeempress]

 

Is this just an assumption or is there evidence to it? Myself, I thought it was the reverse since I remember that many CC fans thought at first that DC was cast as a "gift" to him from RM and that all of the other friends and "imaginary" significant others were just interfering with that plan.

Not an assumption. Darren being a special gift to Chris, and SOs and friends interfering, is exactly what a tinhatter for whom Kurt is a self-insert in Klaine, and from there Chris in CrissColfer, would say. The CC tinhatting started with Klaine, and it wasn't about Chris, else he would've been tinhatted with Chord by the Kum shippers. There were a lot of Kurt fans who were disgruntled by the addition of Blaine because he interfered with their shipping preferences, but they didn't tinhat Chris with Chord.

 

 

Evidence is plenty available in the crisscolfer tag on tumblr, twitter and IG.

Edited March 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[mercfan3]

I think it's what Chris  actually said once, which is young women identified with him. Yes, he was a gay male character. But he was an outsider and different, and was often cast aside for other people (rachel). So when he got Blaine (the pretty object of his desire), a lot of young women reacted strongly to that because the character they identified with got his dream guy. It's just like young women inserting themselves into Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey. (Oh look, I found two relationships that Klaine is significantly healthier than.) 

 

I don't know that I would describe those people as Darren Criss fans, I'd say they are more fans of the relationship that they connected too. (CrissColfer/Klaine fans.)

 

I think the Darren Criss fans want him for themselves. So Mia just gets hit from two groups. 

 

Regardless, It's still just sad and creepy. Darren and Chris couldn't stand next to each other without people going crazy. And it clearly made them both uncomfortable. 

[fakeempress]

 

I don't know that I would describe those people as Darren Criss fans, I'd say they are more fans of the relationship that they connected too. (CrissColfer/Klaine fans.)

 

They are relationship-based, for sure. But then the rank order of their preferences is Darren predominantly. CCers I've seen also want Darren to themselves, and their workaround is through Chris as the self-insert, because if Darren were gay, there's a good reason they can't be with him. If you see their twitter handles, their blog names - lots of variations of Darren's name, Blaine, Klaine, CrissColfer -- and just a few, if any remaining, which are a variation of Chris's or Kurt's name only. Same with their icons. And it goes from there into the contents and the way they tweet to both guys. 

 

People have talked about tinhatter girls showing up at Chris's book signings wearing the pink glasses or Darren t-shirts. He still gets Darren questions at his Q&A. I haven't read about anyone showing up at Darren's tour with a Chris or Kurt related anything on them, or asking about Chris at their meet-and-greets. 

 

That's why I say they're predominantly Darren fans, as opposed to predominantly Chris's fans. Chris's own fans can't wait for the CC tinhatting to die off. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

Exactly .

I'm surprised that some people still question that the majority of. CC fans are predominantly Darren/Blaine stans. Chris himself gets a lot of hate in his Twitter/ social media when he's with his BF Will .

Edited March 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[mercfan3]

I think they are fans of Darren in that, as you said..they see Darren as the object of their self insert. But not quite Darren fans. Because, if they were..wouldn't they be at Darren's stuff instead of being so obsessed with what Chris thinks of Darren? 

 

But I think they are fans of Chris in that they see Chris as themselves. So they ask him about Darren because it makes sense to do so. 

 

So in a sense they are fans of both..and in a sense fans of neither..Because they and their significant others receive hate from these so called fans. 

 

Granted, it's hard to analyze it. It's just kind of weird. And I think rational fans of the individual actors would like it to stop. 

 

And I'll say this, as fans of both..I actually think they have a fun chemistry together. As in, I think they could work together and come up with something really fun..(whether it be hosting a show...or whatever collaborations could come up between the two. Actually, I think they'd be fun in an improv setting together.) But I think the tinhatters ruined that possibility.  

Edited March 2, 2015 by mercfan3

[dizzyizzy01]

I think they are just crazy and delusional.

[fakeempress]

 

 

Because, if they were..wouldn't they be at Darren's stuff instead of being so obsessed with what Chris thinks of Darren?

But I think they are fans of Chris in that they see Chris as themselves. So they ask him about Darren because it makes sense to do so.

So in a sense they are fans of both..and in a sense fans of neither..Because they and their significant others receive hate from these so called fans.

Theirs is a very peculiar brand of "logic".

 

Say you live in Atlanta, last summer there was nothing Darren-related happening nearby or even across the country; and if you don't have the cash, you couldn't go to the London con to see him. So, when Chris's book tour rolls into town, you'll go there because as a tinhatter in love with Darren and for whom Chris is the self-insert (you like Chris but he's a means to an end, and not the one you really lust after even if you think they're both gay), you'd want to be as close to the closest person to Darren, right? You'd like to see evidence of their love.  So you may wear your Darren shades and t-shit, and give Chris a letter to pass on to Darren (this has happened). Then may ask Chris about Darren at the Q&A because you want to vicariously live your Darren love through Chris's alleged heart eyes.  

 

But if Darren's tour rolled into town and you go to the meet-and-greet, you don't ask him about Chris, don't look to see any heart eyes for Chris, don't wear anything Chris-related. You wear your Darren shades and t-shirt, and want to take all kinds of pretend-dating pictures.

They see Chris as themselves, exactly. Stanning yourself is a bit hard, but you can easily stan the person you want to see through Chris's eyes. Chris is like a conduit for them, final destination is Darren / Blaine.

 

This is my armchair psychoanalysis. I wish they seek real help for their delusions.

Edited March 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[KatWay]

As crazy as these girls are, that kind of fandom isn't really at all about the actual actors - they just latched onto a pairing and how they write the actors/pairing usually has verrrry little to do with how the actors themselves behave, etc., they simply become avatars for the writer's own idea of the protagonist (Chris, i.e. self-insert) and ideal love interest (Darren, who ranks from broody dark guy to funny joker, i.e. writer's dream guy). It doesn't really have much to do with either of the actors, just like norma (Kurt/Blaine)l fanfiction written by those more immature fans usually portrays them as out of character too, entirely depending on personal preferences. For the most part, even they are completely harmless. It's a little fantasy played out on the internet. That said there is that small, vocal (the extremes are always vocal) segment that takes it too far by badgering the actors/writers/actual people involved. That's not cool.

 

Achele has died down now, kind of, but I remember when it was going strong, parts of that fandom did basically exactly the same thing, as do the J2 fans.

[Danielle87]

I think it's what Chris  actually said once, which is young women identified with him. Yes, he was a gay male character. But he was an outsider and different, and was often cast aside for other people (rachel). So when he got Blaine (the pretty object of his desire), a lot of young women reacted strongly to that because the character they identified with got his dream guy. It's just like young women inserting themselves into Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey. (Oh look, I found two relationships that Klaine is significantly healthier than.) 

 

The Twilight/50 Shades comparison is spot on. And this is why I feel sad for them, because the CC people are probably very lonely and the obsessive shipping is their escape. It's not about the actors or even the characters themselves, it's about the fact that they desire to have a great romance and are probably very much alone in real life.

[fakeempress]

Ultimately, all fanning, stanning, and related obsessions are about the vicarious needs of the person who engages in them

[caracas1914]

Once a show is off the air, inevitably it all peters down to a trickle, as there is not much to feed the fandom.

With no books, music, movie, touring, reunion or musical planned any time soon it will fracture off to actor fandoms.

[Florinaldo]

I'm surprised that some people still question that the majority of. CC fans are predominantly Darren/Blaine stans.

It's very easy to question that conclusion; one simply has to keep it rational.

 

Evidence is plenty available in the crisscolfer tag on tumblr, twitter and IG.

That evidence is barely circumstancial, at best. The accompanying demonstrations miss the mark in my view because they are confused as to the respective roles of the various players involved.

If one goes to the Web sites and discussion boards devoted to CC, as well as ones dedicated to TV in general that have a Glee and CC section, it is clear that the object of admiration, even of adoration in many cases, is CC, no one else. Everything must geared towards him; everything, including imaginary pairings for the silly CrissColfer faction, must serve only one function, i.e. be in service to him and to his greater glorification. As a matter of fact, that is how it works for extreme fans of any celebity.

This is why many of them imagined DC as being an "offering" to CC. Some eventually turned on the former because his public image did not remain subversient to the central idol and he started gaining popularity on his own; there was also the refusal to publicly confirm their fantasies or to behave in accordance with those, which did not go well with a group of them. Other (perhaps slightly less extreme) fans turned on DC because they decided he was usurping part of the limelight from his co-star and was allegedly being given screen time to the detriment of CC. A cardinal sin in their eyes because it violates the basic premise of their CC-centric fantasy world.

The object of worship here is CC; he is the target of their affections and if there is any fantasy self-insertion at work here, it is because they themselves wish they were the ones to get closer to their star. DC (or others) are just the vicarious means to realise that worship and they are not the subject of identification, just a substitute figure for fantasizing being closer to CC. The final destination is CC/Kurt, not the interceding channel who just plays an utilitarian role. But there is still a safe fantasy quality to using him as that conduit, because he is a celebrity, he is on TV, and has thus attained some of the same idealised status as CC. The latter's real-life boyfriend however is all-too-real, and I think that is why he is the object of particular venom and of accusations of being complicit in hiding the truth, because he holds a much bigger potential of bursting their bubble. This is why I see the notion that DC fans are the ones most prone to this sort of CC fantasy-making as being erroneous.

I am sure that all of the sane people, whether they are directly involved or simple observers, cannot wait for the tinhatting to cease, but I fear that such hope might be in vain because that behaviour is a constantly self-renewing resource. And it is far from new. If you look at movie fan magazines from the 40s and 50s, you will see that obsessive fans existed back then and that there was an huge amount of material being produced to feed their never-sated interests. I am not taking about regular newspaper articles here, but of lavish and extended pieces.

The difference is that back then gossip and news reports (true or manufactured) usually appeared in those publications weeks if not months after they happened. Contact with celebrities (imagined or real) was not as continuous and instantaneous as today; for example, it might take some time for fans to learn where stars spent their vacations, with whom, how they dressed on the beach or at exclusive parties, what movie or play they went to see, etc. Today, photos, tweets and news items appear within the hour on the Web, while direct electronic communications between fans amplify and self-sustain the process. This is what creates a false sense of proximity, which needs outlets to express itself, including in all sorts of tinhatting and imagined relationships.

Besides, crazy CC fans existed even before Blaine or Klaine appeared on the scene. CC did have to hire a bodyguard after all.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Florinaldo

[fakeempress]

 

That evidence is barely circumstancial, at best. The accompanying demonstrations miss the mark in my view because they are confused as to the respective roles of the various players involved.

First hand evidence as the tinhatters supply in their blogs and social media isn't circumstantial. It's what an academic studying them will call primary evidence. The only better evidence is to interview them personally in direct conversation. 

 

 

If one goes to the Web sites and discussion boards devoted to CC, as well as ones dedicated to TV in general that have a Glee and CC section, it is clear that the object of admiration, even of adoration in many cases, is CC, no one else. Everything must geared towards him; everything, including imaginary pairings for the silly CrissColfer faction, must serve only one function, i.e. be in service to him and to his greater glorification. As a matter of fact, that is how it works for extreme fans of any celebity.

This I would like to see the evidence for-- the crisscolfer tinhatters adoring only Chris and no one else, and their tinhatting being in service to him and to glorify him. LOL, if only. 

 

I can say the weather is absolutely freezing when it's 95 F outisde, but it won't make it any less scorching hot. 

 

 

Besides, crazy CC fans existed even before Blaine or Klaine appeared on the scene. CC did have to hire a bodyguard after all.

Chris's  fans are being confused with the tinhatters. Two different groups of people. Tinhatters are all Klainers, while there is a large section of Chris's fandom who aren't Klainers; and barely any (if at all) who are crisscolfer tinhatters. We've been talking about the tinhatters specifically -- who emerged when Blaine appeared on the show. If it was about Chris / Kurt, he would have been tinhatted with Chord / Sam, or Cory / Finn, etc. already.  

 

If you want to talk about those in the Chris/Kurt fandom who hate Darren/Blaine with the fire of a thousand suns -- go ahead. But they are the farthest from tinhatters you will ever see, and are a completely different conversation. 

 

Darren / Blaine has crazy fans as well who don't waste any love on Chris / Kurt -- don't know how this has escaped your attention, since there's mountains of evidence of it as well in the social media / tumblr tags. 

 

ETA: Ryan has mentioned explicit threats against Chris as the reason to have increased security for him personally. This was said during the second Glee tour.

Edited March 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[indeed]

Is "CC" being used to cover two separate sets of fans here (CrissColfer vs. Chris Colfer), because I think there may be some confusion regarding which set is being referred to in these posts (or maybe it's just me!)?

[caracas1914]

This I would like to see the evidence for-- the crisscolfer tinhatters adoring only Chris and no one else, and their tinhatting being in service to him and glorify him

 

Tell me about it.  There is no evidence.  At last none one can read , see or quantify..LOL.

 

Seems some Darren/Blaine stans are embarrassed by the subset of his  fans who are hard core Criss/Colfer nuts.  It happens.

Edited March 3, 2015 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

Is "CC" being used to cover two separate sets of fans here (CrissColfer vs. Chris Colfer), because I think there may be some confusion regarding which set is being referred to in these posts (or maybe it's just me!)?

Not just you. It's conflating both, which is very strange since they are two entirely different groups of stans. 

[tom87]

All I know from the stuff I have seen if I had to place bets on who crisscolfer fans prefer, Darren or Chris my money would  be placed on Darren.   I might even double down.

Edited March 3, 2015 by tom87

[caracas1914]

All I know if I had to place bets on who crisscolfer fans prefer, Darren or Chris my money would  be placed on Darren.   I might even double down.

 

Ha! I'd do better, I'd triple dog dare you. 

 

But not back east on an exposed winter day.  ("A Christmas story" reference)

[tom87]

Ha! I'd do better, I'd triple dog dare you. 

 

But not back east on an exposed winter day.  ("A Christmas story" reference)

I'd rather lick a flag pole in winter then enter some of those crisscolfer blogs.

[truthaboutluv]

From the little I observed, it was hard to tell because they were just psycho period and far as I could tell, they hated Chris' boyfriend in equal parts as they hated Darren's girlfriend so it was hard to say that they were stanning more for one. I do think making an emphatic claim either way is probably subjective. Bottom line it's a bunch of freaks who need to get a life and worry about their own real life relationships versus one fabricated in their heads. 

[caracas1914]

Forget the boyfriend or girlfriends.

Here's the difference, they actually sent hate directly Chris way, in his Twitter and social media. Chris. Not talking about Will or Mia , but Chris himself.

So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the rest.

Goodness knows Chris has his own subset of looney fans , but it's stretching it to claim the Criss/Colfers are Chris Colfer fans primarily.

[fakeempress]

Of course both Chris's boyfriend and Darren's girlfriend will be hated by the tinhatters - both are majorly in the way of their fantasy.  This is like, tinhatter 101, lol.

Edited March 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[mercfan3]

Forget the boyfriend or girlfriends.

Here's the difference, they actually sent hate directly Chris way, in his Twitter and social media. Chris. Not talking about Will or Mia , but Chris himself.

So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the rest.

Goodness knows Chris has his own subset of looney fans , but it's stretching it to claim the Criss/Colfers are Chris Colfer fans primarily.

 

I have to ask why? Was it because he supposedly hates the Blaine pairing? Something Darren has never said out loud.) 

 

BTW: Darren got A TON of hate for "coming out as straight." To the point where people were pissed off at him for questions interviewers asked him. (Even when you could tell he was visibly annoyed by the questions. I think the Wendy Williams show, where he got very sarcastic about it, and Kathy Griffin's show..where he flat out ignored her the first two times she mentioned him being straight..suggested he had nothing to do with the questions being asked.) And who do you think would send Darren "hate" for saying he's straight. (It's not too hard to figure out...) 

 

I still say it goes back to what each represents to them. Chris is their self insert, Darren is their teenage dream. When either one of them don't fit their fantasies/template, they lash out. I'm not sure people are really an actual fan of either. 

[phoenixrising]

It's hard for me to get why it matters who various actors date. wouldn't self-insertion be easier if they were single?

[mercfan3]

It's hard for me to get why it matters who various actors date. wouldn't self-insertion be easier if they were single?

 

The self insertion is really with the Kurt character. Where the CCs have blended the characters with the actors that play them. And it's really the fantasy. Kurt/Blaine and in extension Chris/Darren is about getting your teenage dream. That's the self insertion. They love the pairing because they love that fantasy. Just like the "making the bad boy fall in love with you" fantasy gets played out in a lot of fiction. 

[fakeempress]

Tinhatters have some inexplicable need for the actors who play a favourite fictional romantic couple, to date irl. There was tinhatting of Kate and Leo after Titanic. And the Notebook when Rachel McAdams and Gosling were indeed a couple for a while after the movie, the McGoslings went ballistic after they split up and carried the torch for a long while. The Robsten crazies who are still convinced Kristen and Robert had a secret child and are secretly married. That's what it is with Kurt and Blaine too for them, the extreme projection of the fictional love story onto the actors. And it's true as someone mentioned that Klaine isn't the first fictional gay couple to be tinhatted, there was at least the Queer as Folk US actors, one of whom was gay, and the other straight. To this day, their fringe tinhatters still "find clues" that Randy Harrison and Gale Harold had an affair. 

 

The hate/ crazy tweets to Chris go into overdrive whenever something happens or doesn't happen that puts a wrench in the tinhatter fantasy (which often happens), so they lash out, sort of like self-preservation mechanism. And indeed they don't like that unlike Darren he stopped promoting Klaine (which ironically they inflicted upon themselves) and doesn't feed their Klaine and by extension the CC fantasies, and that he keeps repeating this soundbite "Glee is not a documentary".The first time the acknowledgment page of his book included his boyfriend, it was horrendous. Last year the same thing when the page was released, they hate-tweeted him (even if at the same time they still think "crisscolfer is on", go figure) why he doesn't put Darren in it, tweeted pics of the page with Will's name blacked out or replaced with Darren's, regularly send him manips of him and Darren, even manip Darren's face onto his boyfriend. Around Darren's birthday, it also gets pretty crazy in Chris' twitter mentions. It's a lot of stuff, going on for a long time.

Edited March 4, 2015 by fakeempress

[phoenixrising]

So, one thing that really bugs me about the Klaine fandom is their false sense of important, and their belief that Klaine is the end-all, be-all of LGBT representation. First of all, whether you love it or hate it, you have Santana, Brittany, Unique, Bieste, now Spencer, and a lot of other side characters. They also act like Klaine is the only important thing about this show. Which, maybe it is to the Klaine fandom, but seriously, don't speak for everyone. Being in the Brittana fandom, I've heard plenty of stories about how they've been helpful to LGB people, and I'd bet it would apply to Unique and Bieste as well. And, do these people not know about any of the other shows that have way more interestingly written LGBT characters (basically every other show)? I mean, I'll give Kurt and him actually getting a boyfriend who he can kiss some credit, but they aren't the beginning and the best of the gay rights movement. Aaaaaaaaarghhggghg.

[caracas1914]

So, one thing that really bugs me about the Klaine fandom is their false sense of important, and their belief that Klaine is the end-all, be-all of LGBT representation.

 

THIS so much!!

 

The hilarious thing is their total antipathy if not downright hatred for such pairings as Kurt/Adam or Blaine/Karofsky. 

 

Wait, what, aren't those also LGBT representation?   

 

It' fine to ship Klaine but their indifference/dislike of other gay pairings just shows it's because Klaine is Klaine and has nothing to do with gay representation to them.  Don't get me started on Klaine shippers who trumpet themselves as Lesbians  but don't give a rat's ass about Lesbian representation including Britanna.  I get that some may not like the pairing of Santana and Brittany specifically, but still, the difference of support is glaring.

Edited March 5, 2015 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

To be fair, I've read many posts and stories about people who shipped Brittany/Santana who hated Kurt/Blaine because they felt the writers gave them more attention (as if that's actually a good thing on this show). I saw plenty of back and forth at TWOP between the two sides. Anytime anyone said something about the lack of affection between Blaine and Kurt, particularly in Season 3, others would counter it with how much worse things were for Brittany and Santana. Seems to me both fandoms have people who have an antagonistic view of the other pairing and considers their pairing the "better" one. 

 

As for Kurt/Adam and Blaine/Karofsky, to be fair, there aren't many people who root for mid-game love interests when they ship a pairing, at least not in my observation of fandoms throughout the years. Also with regards to these two pairings, with Adam and Kurt, honestly I don't think  Adam was around long enough or even relevant enough that the hatred truly got out of control. Yes, before it's stated,  I'm well aware there probably were some nutty ones, there always are - just saying it's not like he ever really posed enough of a threat for the shippers to truly care. Same with rooting for them as a pairing. What was there to root for - dude lasted all of a total of maybe 30 minutes of screentime and then he vanished. Blame the writers for that one.

 

And as for Blaine and Karofsky, even as someone who has zero interest in Klaine, I can speak on this and say maybe the problem was less their Klaine obsession and more that anyone with any sense of character consistency and storylines that made sense realized how fucked up and gross that relationship was? I'm all for LGBT pairings and I thought that pairing was disgusting on every level because wanting LGBT representation in my opinion does not mean rooting for or appreciating pairings that make zero sense. I'd feel the same about a straight couple. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Ceeg]

So, one thing that really bugs me about the Klaine fandom is their false sense of important, and their belief that Klaine is the end-all, be-all of LGBT representation. First of all, whether you love it or hate it, you have Santana, Brittany, Unique, Bieste, now Spencer, and a lot of other side characters. They also act like Klaine is the only important thing about this show. Which, maybe it is to the Klaine fandom, but seriously, don't speak for everyone. Being in the Brittana fandom, I've heard plenty of stories about how they've been helpful to LGB people, and I'd bet it would apply to Unique and Bieste as well. And, do these people not know about any of the other shows that have way more interestingly written LGBT characters (basically every other show)? I mean, I'll give Kurt and him actually getting a boyfriend who he can kiss some credit, but they aren't the beginning and the best of the gay rights movement. Aaaaaaaaarghhggghg.

 

Preach it. I kind of felt like that part of Santana's rant at Kurt was aimed a little bit at the Klaine fandom, when she said Kurt thinks he and Blaine were the apex of the gay rights movement even when they cooked mac and cheese or farted.

Once, I read a post from a Klainer that said, in 10 years, the only good thing anyone will remember about Glee is Klaine. I literally laughed out loud. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ceeg

[phoenixrising]

To be fair, I read many posts and stories about people who shipped Brittany/Santana who hated Kurt/Blaine because they felt the writers gave them more attention (as if that's actually a good thing on this show). I saw plenty of back and forths at TWOP anytime anyone said something about the lack of affection between Blaine and Kurt, particularly in Season 3 and others would counter it with how much worse things were for Brittany and Santana. Seems to me both fandoms have people who have an antagonistic view of the other pairing and considers their pairing the "better" one.

I didn't really talk to other fans until season 4, so I wasn't aware of that. I'm sure there are Brittana shippers like that too. I haven't really seen it much, but probably because I avoid the crazier brittana fans (and I know a lot of people in that fandom were leaving out during season 4).

I do feel like there's a difference though between liking your gay ship most, and totally ignoring other lgbt representation, and claiming it's not important at all. I hate Klaine, but I try to give credit where it's due (like that first kiss being a big deal). I also have zero feelings about spencer/whatever his name is, but it's nice they're there, at least. I don't think you have to like a lgbt character just because they're lgbt, but it does get weirdly competitive and comes off as only caring about pretty guys. I think coming from the Klaine fandom, it extra-bugs me, because most of them are straight, and I've seen too many brittana shippers get lesbophobic slurs in their tumblr. I'm sure there's brittana fans that send stupid stuff too, but i don't think they tend to come with homophobia. I don't know, the weird competitiveness of the whole thing annoys me.

[Ceeg]

Yeah it's one thing to say you like Klaine more than Brittana. It's totally different to say that Klaine is the most important gay ship ever, and zomg we love representation so much and Klaine is SO important for representation, but lol Brittana are such a joke how could anyone actually ship them and the only reason Brad wrote Brittana is bc he has a lesbian fetish, and DID YOU KNOW KLAINE WERE FEATURED IN A SOCIOLOGY TEXTBOOK Brittana would never bc no1curr

 

And I won't even touch on the slurs some of the more nasty Klainers like to hurl.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ceeg

[ComfySweater]

I want Spencer to go away and stop taking space, but I can see it's some sort of representation for the asshole brigade. Glee hasn't lacked in filling that niche, but it's not like any other shows are chock full of asshole gays.  I guess it's something.

[fakeempress]

 

Wait, what, aren't those also LGBT representation?

The fighting about which LGBT+ ship is a better representation is just rationalisation, shipping fights by other means.  For the die-hards who attack the other pairings (because not all Klaine, Brittana, etc,. shippers do that) , it's about shouting down the other fandoms to "prove" their "ship" is the fairest of them all, or alternatively, the most neglected etc. -- anything most. It's about the shippers' own validation and self-importance in the final count, through the ship they have come to super-identify with. 

 

There is no shame in admitting your fancy was stricken more with this ship than with that for whatever reason. But when the rationalisations go into attack mode or SJW territory -- is when the perspective is lost. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

Yeah it's one thing to say you like Klaine more than Brittana

 

Which fair enough, but  the so called Lesbian fans of Klaine who seem to loathe Brittana or don't care a whit about Lesbian representation on Glee at all,  that seem more like cyber pseuduolesbians,not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

It's like PDA's on Glee, when all you squeal about is for just  Klaine to get them , fine, but let's call a spade a spade.  Don't hide behind you are all (insert moral indignation)  for LGBT representation, etc, etc when it's transparently just about one particular ship. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by caracas1914

[Ceeg]

The fighting about which LGBT+ ship is a better representation is just rationalisation, shipping fights by other means.  For the die-hards who attack the other pairings (because not all Klaine, Brittana, etc,. shippers do that) , it's about shouting down the other fandoms to "prove" their "ship" is the fairest of them all, or alternatively, the most neglected etc. -- anything most. It's about the shippers' own validation and self-importance in the final count, through the ship they have come to super-identify with. 

 

Right. But like phoenixrising said, when you use LGBTQ representation as a reason why Klaine are so important, and then in the same breath criticize Brittana by calling them unimportant or a result of Brad having a fetish (yes, I've really read that several times, which, what even?), it becomes even more problematic than regular shipper wars.  

 

It was even more plainly obvious when Klaine broke up and Adam came on the show, when the shippers could no longer use the ~representation argument, since it was still two gay characters.  Then, they went back to the "but Klaine are so important TOGETHER". 

 

The Klaine fandom has been especially nasty to Brittana shippers this past season, I think because they felt threatened and angry that Brittana got a happy S6 arc, while Klaine got a shitty one, so they're using any kind of argument they can to validate their ship, since it was practically ruined in canon. Most of the reasonable, sane Klaine shippers left fandom sometime around Season 4, I think. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ceeg

[truthaboutluv]

True, but the thing is many fandoms have fans guilty of the same thing. Like I'm sure some Brittana fans were angry about Klaine usurping their wedding and feeling that it should have just been them and their pairing deserved to have their wedding just like I'm sure some Klaine fans were pissed that all they got was a throwaway at another pairing's wedding. And I'm sure some Brittana fans probably crowed about wanting to see LGBT representation and the importance of watching a same sex couple get married but at the same time turned around and railed about Klaine getting married as well. So in other words, it was important to see THEIR same sex couple get married. Ultimately, that's the thing about fandoms - it's a breeding ground for hypocrisy and everyone always believes they are the right and justified ones and it's other fans guilty of the same behavior they exhibit. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by truthaboutluv