Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[Sandman]

44 minutes ago, Vince1178 said:

Just once I’d like for someone (please let it be Gabi) to take a deep breath, look Julie in the eyes, and run through every horrible thing a Horton has done over the last 50 years.

Every. Last. Thing.

I would imagine just the list of Remember The Shite Julie Pulled? would take the better part of a day, leaving out every other Horton ever born. 

44 minutes ago, Vince1178 said:

But the transgressions of Rafe’s family have nothing to do with his keeping a secret from Hope. Nothing.

Quoted just for emphasis.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Sandman

[TeeVee329]

Now, I ain't saying Leo's a gold digger, but he ain't messing with no broke grand old dames or jerky businessmen whose two exes are now Doing It with each other.

[Silver Raven]

I wish Show had had Sonny and Leo get close and then show us that he's working him.

[YupItsMe]

I literally LOL'd at Victor's PTSD remark. Not that PTSD is anything to joke about, but his delivery was perfect. :D

I think I like Dr. Laura better than Abigail, not that I like Abby, but I do enjoy Laura's attitude.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

I wish Show had had Sonny and Leo get close and then show us that he's working him.

Not even having seen today's episode yet, I'm struck by what a fundamental storytelling flaw this is. Everything on the show seems accelerated, or shown in the wrong order.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Sandman

[Silver Raven]

Does  Will's amnesia mean he no longer knows what March Madness is?

Chad really thinks being a DiMera means he can just walk out of a foreign jail.  Oh, what, what am I thinking?  Of course it does.

Where is Will living?

The Abigail/Gabby transitions were pretty creepy.

Ugh, Leo's a total creep.

"You should pack up this act and head back to Bollywood."

Stop teasing us with Shelle, Show, if they're going to disappear again in a week or so.

[peachmangosteen]

26 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Where is Will living?

I think he lives across from Paul in, uh, that building that a bunch of the characters live in.

I was actually interested in the Gabigail stuff today. I just can't when she's Gabby and Stefan is trying to fuck her.

Ugh, I love Belle. I wish her and Shawn would be brought back on at least a more consistent recurring basis.

Edited March 27, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[bobcat1946]

18 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Maybe Rafe can start to seek meaningful job opportunities in other cities.

Even better had he never come to Salem.

[buffynut]

3 hours ago, YupItsMe said:

I literally LOL'd at Victor's PTSD remark. Not that PTSD is anything to joke about, but his delivery was perfect. :D

I think I like Dr. Laura better than Abigail, not that I like Abby, but I do enjoy Laura's attitude.

I laughed at Victor's shudder. 

And I think I like BOTH Dr. Laura and Gabby better than Abigail.

 

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

Everything on the show seems accelerated, or shown in the wrong order.

 Everything is accelerated.  Even Sonny & Leo's date.  They met, and presumably ordered and either had drinks or ate, and left in the same amount of time it took Vivian and Kate to discuss Viivian's "massage".

 

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

Chad really thinks being a DiMera means he can just walk out of a foreign jail.  Oh, what, what am I thinking?  Of course it does.

How exactly did Belle get the charges dropped in like 2 seconds.  I mean, drug charges in China is not a minor misdemeanor.   And what was that stupid line about Belle staying at the station in case they brought Chad in again!

[Tress]

1 hour ago, buffynut said:

How exactly did Belle get the charges dropped in like 2 seconds.  I mean, drug charges in China is not a minor misdemeanor.   And what was that stupid line about Belle staying at the station in case they brought Chad in again!

I know.  I hope they just don't breeze through this and really explain it.  I mean, we've been through so much of this Abby, Gabby, Fabby, McNabby, Dr. Laura crap - I think that we deserve an explanation.  

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I wish Show had had Sonny and Leo get close and then show us that he's working him.

 

6 hours ago, Sandman said:

Not even having seen today's episode yet, I'm struck by what a fundamental storytelling flaw this is. Everything on the show seems accelerated, or shown in the wrong order.

 

No, I don't see this as a fundamental storytelling flaw - it depends on how the story is supposed to go. My favorite romantic trope is that of the con artist who falls in love with their mark (all of my top three all-time soap pairings started this way, and so did my top book romance), and that always starts out with the viewer/reader knowing the truth about the con artist so that you get the frisson of them slowly falling in love with their mark, and wondering if or at what point they'll give up the con for love and whether it'll be in time to save the romance. (It's also easier to forgive the con artist and root for the pairing if you've been along for the whole ride from the con artist's POV rather than finding out later in the story.) So if Leo has, or could have, longterm potential on this show, that's the way to go.

But I agree with the point about storytelling in general on this show.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Black Knight

[TeeVee329]

Oh Show, finger on the pulse, I'm sure lot of gay dudes usually debate which show in the "Chicago Fire" franchise is their favorite on the first date. #eyeroll

Edited March 28, 2018 by TeeVee329

[Sidney]

I can't believe Ron is writing Stefan this creepy. He stood there and watched while Abby had a complete meltdown, and all he cared about was getting the alter back. Sick!!

[Sandman]

4 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

No, I don't see this as a fundamental storytelling flaw - it depends on how the story is supposed to go. My favorite romantic trope is that of the con artist who falls in love with their mark (all of my top three all-time soap pairings started this way, and so did my top book romance), and that always starts out with the viewer/reader knowing the truth about the con artist so that you get the frisson of them slowly falling in love with their mark, and wondering if or at what point they'll give up the con for love ...

Fair point, and I probably should at least see it before making a snap judgment, but the (legitimate) structure you mention does take some care in the build-up -- which has become passing rare on this show. Though I would be happy if the show proved me wrong in the end.

5 minutes ago, Sidney said:

I can't believe Ron is writing Stefan this creepy.

Oh, I can.

[Black Knight]

So I was rather excited/apprehensive to see how the ballyhooed Horita sex went today, and unfortunately my second feeling (apprehension) was more warranted. CM still isn't comfortable with these types of scenes, even as tame as something like this that just calls for a little kissing and topless action. I could see where CS, who doesn't have these hang-ups, tried to pull him close in a very natural way, but CM kept doing that thing with his arms he always does while kissing that oh-so-conveniently keeps the other guy's body a foot away. It's not surprising how short and mild they kept it given what they had to deal with in CM. Horita 1.0 was so much better. So was OLTL's Kish - did they ever have it going on.

I've always liked Greg Rikaart. It'd be nice if they did make Leo viable instead of running him into the ground like they are Stefan. At this rate Stefan will have to be killed off in a few months.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, Tress said:

I know.  I hope they just don't breeze through this and really explain it.  I mean, we've been through so much of this Abby, Gabby, Fabby, McNabby, Dr. Laura crap - I think that we deserve an explanation.  

That's it: I'm calling her "Fabby McNabby" from now on!

13 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I've always liked Greg Rikaart. It'd be nice if they did make Leo viable instead of running him into the ground like they are Stefan. At this rate Stefan will have to be killed off in a few months.

Well, yes -- but also, Sonny is being catfished BY VIVIAN. (And St. Maggie of the Anvils has already sussed it out.) So it will be horrendous. And possibly awesome. Remotely possibly awesome. (I don't see Rikaart staying on the show long-term, though.)

17 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

CM still isn't comfortable with these types of scenes, even as tame as something like this that just calls for a little kissing and topless action. I could see where CS, who doesn't have these hang-ups, tried to pull him close in a very natural way, but CM kept doing that thing with his arms he always does while kissing that oh-so-conveniently keeps the other guy's body a foot away. It's not surprising how short and mild they kept it given what they had to deal with in CM.

It didn't seem awkward to me, respectfully.

[Silver Raven]

Any  bets on showing Horita in the throes of passion, or will they just cut to the afterglow?

[Frozendiva]

Will is going to apply for a Salem Spectator reporter position? Given his track record for working for the tabloid? Maybe Jennifer will give him a break. Adrienne, not so much. And what happened to Anne?

Maggie is right about the catfishing. Sonny can't see that is too soon, and too convenient?

Chad could just have Belle help him out and not have to deal with the pesky US Consulate or Embassy in Hong Kong? Hong Kong is now in China's hands and not a British 'colony'. There would be some diplomatic intervention.

Abi/Gabi/Fabigail are not really interesting anymore. Chad finding 'Abs' in a GabiChic or whatever dress? What a waste of a trip to Hong Kong!

Kate's leopard print suit was a bit, um, much.

Will and Paul - not hugely interested. New guy - didn't care for him.

[DisneyBoy]

Quote

And what happened to Anne?

Thank you!

And isn't she manager of personnel at the (invisible) Spectator? Wouldn't she be hiring Will?

I'd gladly trade Rafe, Abby, Stefan, Lani and Sonny for some Anne Milbauer right about now.

[Swartz]

I hate this DID story and MM is sucking up screentime with her suckiness.

[Apprentice79]

32 minutes ago, SnK said:

I hate this DID story and MM is sucking up screentime with her suckiness.

She is awful. I cringe every time she plays sexy or flirtatious.   It cannot be said enough, but, Stefan is vile.  He is gross, there is nothing likable about him. Ron still has not learned his lesson when it comes to sex and  explicit consent. Stefan and the alter Gabby will have sex. It is only a matter of time.

[boes]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Thank you!

And isn't she manager of personnel at the (invisible) Spectator? Wouldn't she be hiring Will?

I'd gladly trade Rafe, Abby, Stefan, Lani and Sonny for some Anne Milbauer right about now.

Oh God YES!!!  

[boes]

5 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Oh Show, finger on the pulse, I'm sure lot of gay dudes usually debate which show in the "Chicago Fire" franchise is their favorite on the first date. #eyeroll

 

Word.  One of the reasons I'm not too interested in the Will/Paul/Sonny storyline - the main one - is that their portrayal of gay men is so ...... fake is the kindest thing I can say.  Gay male myself, and to say I'm underwhelmed by the "Gee, aren't we JUST like everyone else" portrayal is putting it mildly.  Annoyed, resigned, pissed off, is more like it.  DOOL isn't alone in that, most - no, ALL soaps - took the After School special approach, the Kish OLTL storyline a partial exception.  

This is 2018 and it still feels like they're playing that old "Don't be scared, we're just like everyone else" tune and I'm beyond tired of it.  

ETA - at least show finally hired an actual gay man to play a gay man with Greg Rikaart.  That matters to me.  JMO.

Edited March 28, 2018 by boes

[DisneyBoy]

Of course, they've had gay men playing straight men for years!

Quote

This is 2018 and it still feels like they're playing that old "Don't be scared, we're just like everyone else" tune and I'm beyond tired of it. 

And it's such a startling juxtaposition to how the show handled gay characters when they were first being introduced to the canvas (2011?). Remember how foreign Sonny and his friends from the gay club scene seemed to be to Will back then? The show didn't go too deep into that, but it also wasn't shying away from owning the fact that the gay journey is unique in certain ways.

The bottom line is that all too often this show lacks flavor. They've brought on so many gay characters and none of them were in any way interesting. Where are the more flamboyant gays, for the more shy gays? it would be kind of interesting to see Sonny transition into being more of a bear type...whatever that actually means for his character's narrative I could't say (he'd be more into twinks...?) There just isn't any flavor.

The same can be said for the dull Latin American characters we were subjected to during Dena's reign. And then there's black autistic Theo, whose storylines seemingly had nothing to do with either of those traits. How....compelling?

But then we also have no-legged Philip, whose physical handicaps have had no part of the show in recent years. And open heart surgery Brady, who in spite of having narrowly escaped death twice in the last 2 years, has made absolutely no lifestyle changes and seems determined to destroy his liver. But then, former alcoholic Eric and former drug addict Jennifer act like they were never addicts to begin with when they first started their relationship.

All this to say, the show doesn't do much with its raw ingredients...

This whole dating app thing is probably the first indication of Ron trying to work real world Gay Culture into the show. And even then, he's using something that isn't exclusive to the gay community...

Here's a question to ponder - Did Will, being new to gay sex, prepare for his intimate evening with Paul? Did he instinctively know what to do, or was he just winging it? Including some shade of that element of the situation certainly would have brought some added realism to it.

[swtrgrl]

14 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Does  Will's amnesia mean he no longer knows what March Madness is?

 

Maybe not. He doesn't remember who he is. He remembers Nashville only. He doesn't remember that he was into sports, etc... In general he may know what MM is but not how to do the brackets based on knowing the teams, etc...

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

So I was rather excited/apprehensive to see how the ballyhooed Horita sex went today, and unfortunately my second feeling (apprehension) was more warranted. CM still isn't comfortable with these types of scenes, even as tame as something like this that just calls for a little kissing and topless action. I could see where CS, who doesn't have these hang-ups, tried to pull him close in a very natural way, but CM kept doing that thing with his arms he always does while kissing that oh-so-conveniently keeps the other guy's body a foot away. It's not surprising how short and mild they kept it given what they had to deal with in CM. Horita 1.0 was so much better. So was OLTL's Kish - did they ever have it going on.

 

The thing with the arms is a carried over joke from WilSon (Freddie and Chandler)...they would "fight" with their arms to signal who was topping. It was a Freddie/Chandler thing. I think that may translate on screen to Chandler keeping his partners at arms length. 

9 hours ago, Sandman said:

It didn't seem awkward to me, respectfully.

I agree. I thought it was just awkward enough...being Will's first time (in his mind since he doesn't remember).

9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Any  bets on showing Horita in the throes of passion, or will they just cut to the afterglow?

Oh, we'll just get afterglow. WilSon's first time was like that. Admittedly we got more of a lead up/slow burn with the undressing with them than we did yesterday but still... afterglow.

6 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

The bottom line is that all too often this show lacks flavor. They've brought on so many gay characters and none of them were in any way interesting. Where are the more flamboyant gays, for the more shy gays? it would be kind of interesting to see Sonny transition into being more of a bear type...whatever that actually means for his character's narrative I could't say (he'd be more into twinks...?) There just isn't any flavor.

Here's a question to ponder - Did Will, being new to gay sex, prepare for his intimate evening with Paul? Did he instinctively know what to do, or was he just winging it? Including some shade of that element of the situation certainly would have brought some added realism to it.

Sonny is totes a bear who loves twinks. LOL. 

And as to the last thing... there is no way in hell a network show, daytime or prime time, is going to get into that. I wish they would, even in hints or passing mentions,  b/c the reality of penetrative gay sex is that it's not spontaneous. There is prep. My assumption for the purpose of this situation is that Will googled and watched A LOT of porn and did what he needed to do. But then again... the boys (Freddie, Guy and Christopher) have all said that it's obvi that they're all 3 verse so who knows what happened how.

And omg, I read way too much gay romance fiction and have way too many male gay friends. I'm not a gay man and I just straight(ish) girl-splained gay sex to you guys and gals. I apologize. 

[Apprentice79]

8 hours ago, boes said:

Word.  One of the reasons I'm not too interested in the Will/Paul/Sonny storyline - the main one - is that their portrayal of gay men is so ...... fake is the kindest thing I can say.  Gay male myself, and to say I'm underwhelmed by the "Gee, aren't we JUST like everyone else" portrayal is putting it mildly.  Annoyed, resigned, pissed off, is more like it.  DOOL isn't alone in that, most - no, ALL soaps - took the After School special approach, the Kish OLTL storyline a partial exception.  

This is 2018 and it still feels like they're playing that old "Don't be scared, we're just like everyone else" tune and I'm beyond tired of it.  

ETA - at least show finally hired an actual gay man to play a gay man with Greg Rikaart.  That matters to me.  JMO.

 

Boes, I have always been curious about what would be your ideal gay storyline. I am Black and I have no expectations that a soap will ever really get Black characters.  I just go with the flow. I think that the Young& The restless got very close to doing it  right because they let the Black actors have input in their characters dialogue and storylines. Victoria Rowell  who used to play Drucilla, may be nuts,  but, she was right in wanting creative control when it comes to Black culture and how it is portrayed. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Sandman]

Hey, what happened to Flirty McManbun, Bartender to the Stars? (And by "stars," I obviously mean "stiffs and walk-ons sparsely populating the Brady Pub and mumbling 'rhubarb, please Lord, rhubarb' into their beer mugs filled with apple juice.")

[TeeVee329]

12 hours ago, Black Knight said:

So I was rather excited/apprehensive to see how the ballyhooed Horita sex went today, and unfortunately my second feeling (apprehension) was more warranted. CM still isn't comfortable with these types of scenes, even as tame as something like this that just calls for a little kissing and topless action. I could see where CS, who doesn't have these hang-ups, tried to pull him close in a very natural way, but CM kept doing that thing with his arms he always does while kissing that oh-so-conveniently keeps the other guy's body a foot away. It's not surprising how short and mild they kept it given what they had to deal with in CM. Horita 1.0 was so much better. So was OLTL's Kish - did they ever have it going on.

It did feel very tame, even the music and the antique furnishings of that set added to that vibe.  And you know, I get that it's a soap on a broadcast network trying to appeal to a wide audience.  But you know the show's not gonna be that tentative when Stefan eventually beds a mentally ill woman, barf.

I was trying to think how much of Lucas and Brad we saw when Ron was writing "General Hospital".  I feel like I remember one insistence where one of them kinda tackled the other onto the bed, but for the most part, we joined them shirtless in the afterglow.  And thinking about Kish (which I often do lol), in addition to that scene being really good, the show actually did a good job with the buildup to it over the course of that month arc.  This just...yeah, I dunno.

[Apprentice79]

6 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

It did feel very tame, even the music and the antique furnishings of that set added to that vibe.  And you know, I get that it's a soap on a broadcast network trying to appeal to a wide audience.  But you know the show's not gonna be that tentative when Stefan eventually beds a mentally ill woman, barf.

It still pisses me off. I have seen many racy loves scenes between straight people on the show. I remember Shane going down on Kim in a bathtub...It was the 80's...lol I was a kid by the way. I did not understand what was going on, at the time..lol

In 2018 and you cannot show two men enjoying each other sexually.. The double standard is grating. I am not saying that we should see gay porn, but, come on..

[TeeVee329]

6 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

It still pisses me off. I have seen many racy loves scenes between straight people on the show. I remember Shane going down on Kim in a bathtub...It was the 80's...lol I was a kid by the way. I did not understand what was going on, at the time..lol

In 2018 and you cannot show two men enjoying each other sexually.. The double standard is grating. I am not saying that we should see gay porn, but, come on..

Meanwhile, I remember the GASP-ing that happened in 2013 when there was implied oral sex on the online AMC and OLTL.

And again, I get that it's broadcast TV and that there's plenty of places on the entertainment dial to find something more racy/risqué if that's your jam.  But, and I think Ron said this at the time about Kish, the approach to this soap couple Doing It for the first time shouldn't be different because they're gay.  And I remember, in that episode, that Gigi and Schuyler also Did It and the scenes were pretty comparable.  And that was just over eight years ago.

[sugarbaker design]

Longtime viewer here, who hardly watches anymore, just read the thread in case anything sounds interesting.  Watched Tuesday's episode this morning, it was the first DOOL episode I've watched in its entirety in years (I did FF through commercials).  I really enjoyed it.  It did feature my faves:  Kate (and her leopard pantsuit!), Vivian (catfishing), Will, Paul, Maggie, Victor.  

I loved the Abigail/Gabigail/Jean Randolph, er I mean Dr Laura scenes.  I know this is an unpopular opinion on this thread but I thought MM was actually quite decent in conveying A's fear and mistrust, and Laura's concern for Abigail.  Stefan is still a cipher and I wish the writers would beef up his motivation (either through dialogue or exposition) with Abigail.

I loved seeing Greg Rikaart again, thought he looked great in that blue shirt.  But here's a note to producers:  Stop with sport jackets and gay men in their thirties, it just doesn't happen that much.  And if you're going to put Sonny in one, make sure it fits.

Victor and Maggie were a hoot, and scenes with Belle and SD were so nice, what a treat for old-timers like me.  I've always crushed on Brandon Beemer.

I could watch Kate and Vivian reading the menu at Taco Bell.  All day.

And Paul and Will's first since Will lost his memory, awww.  Why is this ok and sex with Gabigail isn't?  Aren't they both mentally incapacitated?  Just sayin'.

Best thing about this episode:  No Hope, No Julie, No Lani, No Rafe...and thank you baby cheeses, No Jennifer!

Edited March 28, 2018 by sugarbaker design

[TeeVee329]

56 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Hey, what happened to Flirty McManbun, Bartender to the Stars? (And by "stars," I obviously mean "stiffs and walk-ons sparsely populating the Brady Pub and mumbling 'rhubarb, please Lord, rhubarb' into their beer mugs filled with apple juice.")

I still have my fingers crossed that MBB is involved in this Vivian/Leo thing somehow.

[Vince1178]

I’m torn on the portrayal of gay characters on the show. As a gay man, I’m glad they exist and are allowed to have romances just like everyone else. Perhaps the sex scenes are not as racy as some would like, but they do exist. And that's something.

On the flip side, there is nothing about the characters that really suggests they are gay beyond the fact that they are attracted to members of the same sex. And that’s mildly frustrating. But it also feels like a consequence of the medium.

As DisneyBoy mentioned, other minority characters lack truly realistic portrayals as well. Perhaps that’s because it’s daytime television, and the audience is likely largely made up of more conservative, older viewers. But I also think it’s more about the fact that soaps are essentially plot driven. It’s about the romance and the intrigue. It’s not about the deep inner lives of the characters. Characters are less defined by who they are than by what the story line requires of them.

And that's true of all the characters. We don't know what movies Marlena enjoys or what kind of music Chad listens to. We don't get those personal shades for any characters really. It would be weird if they constantly mentioned that Sonny is a big Cher fan just to give him more of a "gay" personality.

I did have a moment yesterday when I wondered if they would dare make Leo bisexual. It would be really interesting to have a character that could romantically move around the canvas without the constraints of being attracted to only one gender—especially if that character is a gold-digging schemer.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Vince1178

[TeeVee329]

17 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

And Paul and Will's first since Will lost his memory, awww.  Why is this ok and sex with Gabigail isn't?  Aren't they both mentally incapacitated?  Just sayin'.

The argument I would make is that Will knows he has amnesia while Abigail doesn't know she has a mental health issue/D.I.D. and Stefan is concealing that fact from her.

[sugarbaker design]

1 minute ago, TeeVee329 said:

The argument I would make is that Will knows he has amnesia while Abigail doesn't know she has a mental health issue/D.I.D. and Stefan is concealing that fact from her.

That is a huge difference, thanks.

[TeeVee329]

15 minutes ago, Vince1178 said:

I did have a moment yesterday when I wondered if they would dare make Leo bisexual. It would be really interesting to have a character that could romantically move around the canvas without the constraints of being attracted to only one gender—especially if that character is a gold-digging schemer.

I'm still waiting for two gay characters to have classic soap hate sex.

[Vince1178]

Just now, TeeVee329 said:

I'm still waiting for two gay characters to have classic soap hate sex.

Well ... now that we have a whopping five of them in Salem at the moment, the odds are better than ever before!

[Sandman]

19 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

loved the Abigail/Gabigail/Jean Randolph, er I mean Dr Laura scenes. 

Ha!

19 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

And Paul and Will's first since Will lost his memory, awww.  Why is this ok and sex with Gabigail isn't?  Aren't they both mentally incapacitated?  Just sayin'.

I don't think not remembering your past is the same as thinking you're someone you're not, no. Will doesn't currently think of himself as EJ Dimera (I don't think.) Will has present capacity to make informed choices. It might be different if Paul were telling Will they were currently together, and manipulating him somehow into "carrying on as normal." (Though I do think Will's "blank slate" is somewhat convenient for Paul, in some ways -- it doesn't feel to me like Will is misinformed to the point of compromising his ability to consent, which is what I'm getting from Fabby McNabby and her hair parade.)  

[sugarbaker design]

6 minutes ago, Vince1178 said:

Well ... now that we have a whopping five of them in Salem at the moment, the odds are better than ever before!

5!  Will, Paul, Leo and Sonny.  Who am I missing?

[TeeVee329]

MBB of course!

[Sandman]

I guess ManBun? Are we still counting Derek? Is he just MIA or did he leave town?

[sugarbaker design]

Doh!  I've seen MBB referred to here on the thread, although I've actually never seen him.

[Sandman]

MBB/Flirty McManbun appears to have been one of Salem's classic "don't blink or you'll miss him" gay people. Like Neil, and Brian. I think The Spot was actually a singularity, and everyone in it might have just blinked out of existence.

[boes]

33 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Meanwhile, I remember the GASP-ing that happened in 2013 when there was implied oral sex on the online AMC and OLTL.

And again, I get that it's broadcast TV and that there's plenty of places on the entertainment dial to find something more racy/risqué if that's your jam.  But, and I think Ron said this at the time about Kish, the approach to this soap couple Doing It for the first time shouldn't be different because they're gay.  And I remember, in that episode, that Gigi and Schuyler also Did It and the scenes were pretty comparable.  And that was just over eight years ago.

The oral sex gasps heard round the world were pretty funny, considering that Erica went down on Phil Brent back in the early 80's.  There were probably plenty of gasps then but no internet to hear about it.

Ron did, as you mention, that 

Quote

the approach to this soap couple Doing It for the first time shouldn't be different because they're gay. 

but it is different.  Often.  Gay coupling and straight coupling don't fit comfortably into the same sleeves.  I understand the restraints of daytime and broadcast but I, personally, are so over what feels to me like forcing gay men into some "we're all the same!" box.  Again, my frustration, but these guy don't reflect reality even through the fractured lens of soaps.  

[TeeVee329]

15 minutes ago, boes said:

Ron did, as you mention, that 

Quote

the approach to this soap couple Doing It for the first time shouldn't be different because they're gay. 

but it is different.  Often.  Gay coupling and straight coupling don't fit comfortably into the same sleeves.  I understand the restraints of daytime and broadcast but I, personally, are so over what feels to me like forcing gay men into some "we're all the same!" box.  Again, my frustration, but these guy don't reflect reality even through the fractured lens of soaps.  

I think he meant - at least as I interpreted it - not approaching them differently within the confines of the soap genre.  That, when a soap couple first gets together, there's a buildup in story to the first time they have sex/make love and that he pitched that idea to the network re: Kyle/Fish and they agreed.

And let's not forget, that was coming after Luke and Noah who, IIRC, waited years, got nowhere near a bed, and then had ice cream with someone's grandmother after.

But, you know, it's also soaps.  I mean, no straight couple ever lights as many candles as some of these people do lol.

Edited March 28, 2018 by TeeVee329

[Vince1178]

15 minutes ago, boes said:

Gay coupling and straight coupling don't fit comfortably into the same sleeves.  I understand the restraints of daytime and broadcast but I, personally, are so over what feels to me like forcing gay men into some "we're all the same!" box.  Again, my frustration, but these guy don't reflect reality even through the fractured lens of soaps.  

Paul and Will banged it out on the second date. And they totally would have done it before then, but a) their casual hookup was interrupted by Sonny and b) their first date got thwarted by some divorce papers. That seems like some pretty realistically gay coupling ... at least in my experience.  ;o)

Edited March 28, 2018 by Vince1178

[Garnett7]

I always loved Greg Rikaart. Y&R was so foolish to let him go. But I am a bit confused on something and I admit that I FF some characters but how did Vivian set this up? It's a stretch for me to believe Sonny just so happened to download a dating app and chose the one guy on her payroll. Wouldn't an "accidental meeting" have worked better? Or maybe Leo was catfishing for wealthy marks on dating sites and she somehow found out Sonny chose his profile and offered to pay him herself? I'm baffled.

Sonny is starting to read like a person who can't be alone and jumps too fast into serious relationships. He knew Paul for a brief time in the past before proposing to him. Was with Will not that long before marrying him. Then engaged to Paul after they got back together. Dude, it's ok to casually date or even be single for awhile.

ITA that CM seems uncomfortable in love scenes or kissing scenes. CS seems to be totally cool with it and I have no trouble believing his Paul is into guys but CM's Will is too rigid in romantic scenes. He's fine in the flirting scenes but tenses up in the intimate ones. That said, I still really do like Will/Paul, certainly more than I liked either one of them with Sonny.

So I'm calling it now -- Will's work at the newspaper will lead him to exposing Leo somehow, thus "saving" Sonny and they will start to bond and then he'll get his memories back and poor darling Paul gets screwed again.

 

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And Paul and Will's first since Will lost his memory, awww.  Why is this ok and sex with Gabigail isn't?  Aren't they both mentally incapacitated?  Just sayin'.

JMO but a big whopping difference to me. Will can't remember the past. That's not the same as having a serious mental illness, having blackouts and not knowing what you're doing. Will knows who he is, Abigail does not "know" her other personalities. Will is in full control of his actions and has free will. Abigail has no control over her alters, no knowledge that they even exist. She's mentally ill, Will isn't.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Garnett7

[TeeVee329]

13 minutes ago, Garnett7 said:

I always loved Greg Rikaart.

I don't watch Y&R so my association with GR is Jack's super boring boyfriend during the last season of "Dawson's Creek".  So Leo's already an upgrade lol.

[Sidney]

Will and Paul would be better as friends. They just don't don't work as being a romantic couple, IMO. TBH, Chandler doesn't look comfortable in these kinds of scenes.

[Silver Raven]

Quote

Here's a question to ponder - Did Will, being new to gay sex, prepare for his intimate evening with Paul? Did he instinctively know what to do, or was he just winging it? Including some shade of that element of the situation certainly would have brought some added realism to it.

Do we know that Will was celibate while he thought he was EJ?

6 hours ago, swtrgrl said:

Sonny is totes a bear who loves twinks. LOL. 

Sonny's an otter.

3 hours ago, Vince1178 said:

Well ... now that we have a whopping five of them in Salem at the moment, the odds are better than ever before!

Five? Will, Sonny, Paul, Leo, who else?