S06.E07: Message Discipline

[AndySmith]

 

After an initial seeming choke in court, Ramona smoothly gains control and, anticipating Diane's argument, counters that since Peter has nothing to contribute, the subpoena should be quashed. 

 

They should have sent Alicia instead of Diane. Because, you know, Alicia in Unbeatable Lawyer Person.

 

Good episode overall.

[cheyz]

Alicia has never been the actual candidate before, it is a new role for her. She's used to being the good wife, the attorney, but not the politician asking for votes and support. That's why she is so lost.

[calico]

Finn also knew from Trey Williams that Cary was totally innocent and Castro didn't give a damn about that either.  Castro was itching to convict even an innocent man to further his career.  He's not just being political; he's actively being a bad guy.

 

And if Finn does nothing to stop an innocent man go to prison he's just as bad.

 

My guess is that Castro is the mole - that Castro is closely allied with Bishop. He's going after Cary for political gain, but I don't think he wants to go after Bishop.  I will admit that, if my theory is correct, it creates many inconsistencies - like why should Bishop set up the PAC for Alicia if he already owns Castro

 

This is my guess as well.  The car accident was obviously a hit, and who else knew about the impending confession other than Castro, Kalinda/Dianne/Carey, and Finn?  The whole "going after Cary for political gain" is a red herring with the added benefit of messing with Alicia's campaign.  Bishop would just be hedging his bets by backing both players in the game.  I expect him to make some kind of move on DHP next.

 

In the courtroom scenes almost everyone in the background is either standing up, walking around, talking to others, talking on their phones, etc.  Since when is this legal in a courtroom?

 

Which is not nearly as distracting and ridiculous as the Grand Central Station activity going on in every single scene inside the law firms.  I've worked in many law firms - small, large and in between.  99% of the time people are sitting at their desks, ya know, working not scuttling about files in hand looking all busy-like or yakking in the hallway. 

[Sandman]

Alicia has never been the actual candidate before, it is a new role for her. She's used to being the good wife, the attorney, but not the politician asking for votes and support. That's why she is so lost.

 

Oh, I know that's what the show is going for; I just don't believe that "candidate" is such a new role for her that her brain essentially ceases all recognizable cognitive function.

[apgold]

I noticed the "Frasier" reference too.  It would've been too precious if he mentioned he loved his Jack Russell terrier, too!

 

Even if this show makes no sense half the time, I just enjoy the actors - they all seem to be having fun with each other.   And what took DHP so long to guest on this show?  They've had practically every other major theater actor on already, it reminds me of a Drama League luncheon.

[Cosmocrush]

Also, it was good to see Geneva again and did anyone pick up on the little call back to Frasier when Prady says his dad was a cop who only talked about sports?

Nice catch Milkyaqua!

 

They need lawyers, yet Alicia tells Finn to just rent out space on the 27th floor instead of asking him to join the firm?  I do know if he joins the firm he can't give evidence/info on Cary's case.

That was crazy considering Diane basically recruited half a dozen people to join FA, including Howard Lyman for crying out loud.  The only reason I can come up with is that Carey might have not appreciated employing the guy who was trying to put him away.  Then again, Alicia has basically vetoed every one of Cary's objections regarding the direction of their firm so...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What is the story of that judge on Cary's case? I mean why is he such an asshole all the time. He's constantly yelling and pissed off. I know that most of the judges on this show have some kind of quirk, and I usually like them or at least don't mind them. But this guy is just angry all the time and it's getting very annoying to watch. I'm about one or two scenes away from fast forwarding him. He's horrible.

I actually like him because he doesn't put up with the lawyers overtalking, interrupting, and generally arsing around/wasting the court's time. I prefer a judge who straight up has no patience for the usual lawyers' courtroom antics than the other quirky judges who are supposed to be amusing. I can't stand overtalking and interrupting so I'm totally with him.

 

What were the exact conditions on Cary and Kalinda? Is it just that she has to be 30 feet from him or are they barred from all contact? I don't think that standing 30 feet away and calling him is a great idea but at least that's in their office and they were using internal phone lines so there would really be no way for anyone to prove that Kalinda and Cary were talking. But texting? Hello, there are records of your texts! You guys know this!

 

I know Kalinda is usually stone cold about most stuff but I thought maybe the death of Trey and his cousin will make her feel guilty enough to leave.

[Kel Varnsen]

Enjoying the election storyline, though. Steven Pasquale is excellent as Alicia's campaign manager.

There is one thing I don't get about the campaign manager. Eli basically said that she would have to hire someone else to run her campaign because he was too busy working for Peter. But in ever scene where they work on her campaign Eli is there and he is basically calling the shots and can over rule the campaign manager guy. 

 

Also with the witnesses being dead, can't Kalinda testify that the lab tech told her that she took the cocaine to help her cousin. And can't Kallinda also testify that she was in the room when the Trey guy admitted over to the SA that he knew Cary was innocent and he was willing to testify against Bishop. I know that can sometimes be hearsay but aren't there sometimes exceptions given if the witnesses are dead. Plus just proving that the lab tech was related to a Bishop lieutenant I would think be enough for reasonable doubt that Cary didn't take the drugs.

[needschocolate]

Kalinda may not be a credible witness, given her relationship with Cary and the fact that the court ordered her to stay 30 feet away from him because she is dangerous (even if she didn't have a relationship with him, the fact that she has been labeled as dangerous may make her untrustworthy).

 

Then again, Kalinda and her magic vagina have strong convincing powers, so, as long as the jury isn't made up of gay men and straight women, they may believe her.  

[Kel Varnsen]

Kalinda may not be a credible witness, given her relationship with Cary and the fact that the court ordered her to stay 30 feet away from him because she is dangerous (even if she didn't have a relationship with him, the fact that she has been labeled as dangerous may make her untrustworthy).

 

Then again, Kalinda and her magic vagina have strong convincing powers, so, as long as the jury isn't made up of gay men and straight women, they may believe her.  

Your probably right about the credibility factor.

 

Also I know the Trey guy was killed but who was killed with him. Was it his church going aunt who convinced him to do the right thing (who also witnessed his phone call to the SA) or his cousin the lab tech who got rid of the coke? Since either one of them would be a valuable witness for Cary. 

[romantic idiot]

She's got proof on her side though - the lab tech's kinship, and the money in the bank account. She could use that even if the confession is hearsay, right? 

[Kel Varnsen]

Also why are they still talking about Zach's girlfriend's abortion (the campaign manager guy brought it up doing interview prep)? Would that really be a big deal for a State's attorney race. Plus last time I checked Zach is not a woman, so shouldn't the standard answer just be something like "since Zach is not a woman, it is biologically impossible for him to get pregnant. Since he was not the one who was pregnant, he doesn't really get any choice in the matter of whether or not his girlfriend has the abortion or not" or something like that. It would be just nice to point out that in a case like this Alicia has no power with respect to the legal choice that Zach's girlfriend makes.

[Sandman]

She's got proof on her side though - the lab tech's kinship, and the money in the bank account. She could use that even if the confession is hearsay, right? 

 

Without direct evidence, I'd say it would be easy to cast doubt on the source of the money; it and the relationship between Trey and the lab tech are circumstantial evidence, and Kalinda can't testify about whether what the lab tech told her was true or not without breaching the hearsay rule; I'm pretty sure the deaths of the two sources don't change the impact of the rule.

 

Then again, Kalinda and her magic vagina have strong convincing powers, so, as long as the jury isn't made up of gay men and straight women, they may believe her.  

 

ETA: needschocolate's proviso has put an image in my head of Kalinda (and the Boots) before a jury: if we hear an expostulated "work it, girlfriend!" does that mean her convincing powers have a wider reach than we thought?

 

Politically, isn't the meaning of Anissa's abortion really more on the level of "family values"? Not what Alicia had the right to do about it, if anything, but whether Zach is a "good kid" (in a very old-fashioned sense, admittedly) and whether Alicia knew (and covered it up) or didn't know (and is an uninvolved parent).

Edited November 5, 2014 by Sandman

[TV Diva Queen]

Nice catch Milkyaqua!

 

That was crazy considering Diane basically recruited half a dozen people to join FA, including Howard Lyman for crying out loud.  The only reason I can come up with is that Carey might have not appreciated employing the guy who was trying to put him away.  Then again, Alicia has basically vetoed every one of Cary's objections regarding the direction of their firm so...

Howard hasn't joined FA.  He is Diane's proxy to have someone present at LG.  The lease said that she must be present on-site in order to continue to have her be the "landlord"....UNLESS she assigns a proxy. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Without direct evidence, I'd say it would be easy to cast doubt on the source of the money; it and the relationship between Trey and the lab tech are circumstantial evidence, and Kalinda can't testify about whether what the lab tech told her was true or not without breaching the hearsay rule; I'm pretty sure the deaths of the two sources don't change the impact of the rule.

But they have as much direct evidence that the lab tech took the cocaine as they do that Cary took it (ie none). And I would say the circumstantial evidence against the tech is stronger than that against Cary (which isn't that what reasonable doubt is all about).

 

As for the hearsay thing I thought there were exceptions if the person dies shortly after they tell someone something, then again I may have picked that up from law and order. Either way I am still not sure who else besides Trey died, his Aunt or his cousin. Because the lab tech lady was not the person who was sitting at the table with Trey when he was talking to Finn.

[Sandman]

Howard hasn't joined FA.  He is Diane's proxy to have someone present at LG.

 

But didn't they bribe Howard with a partnership in order to get him to be her proxy? (Partner or not, I still don't get how it can be retroactive: Howard's been there the whole time, of course, but he can't have been acting in Diane's interest before Kalinda and Diane approached him.)

 

I seem to remember an exception to the hearsay rule for things said on one's deathbed. I honestly can't remember if there has to be an expectation that the person making the statements will soon be dead, but I think it's something like that.

[readster]

Very true. The problem is, the cocaine was at the lab and that it was all of a sudden gone. Cary was suppose to sign it out but didn't and as we know it leads to something he was doing for Peter. Of course, the problem is, HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL! Just because someone was suppose to sign it out and then all of a sudden its gone. The witness saying he took it doesn't hold up and there is no evidence that Cary took, sold it or for that matter gave it to someone. There is also no video documentation on it. You don't take that much of a illegal drug and there is no surveillance or anything. Even how Castro and the DEA have been treating Cary from the point he was arrested to throwing out his legal rights. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I'm convinced that Castro is in Bishop's pocket and and Bishop is trying to have at least one State's Attorney on his side if Alicia or Castro win. Of course, if DHP wins then he's screwed. Good job LG for having him as a client you let him get into everything. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by readster

[Kel Varnsen]

But didn't they bribe Howard with a partnership in order to get him to be her proxy? (Partner or not, I still don't get how it can be retroactive: Howard's been there the whole time, of course, but he can't have been acting in Diane's interest before Kalinda and Diane approached him.)

They definitely bribed him there was lots of talk about him being an active member of the firm and being in court and crap like that. Which makes no sense, because until that one time they needed him Howard never came into the office. Now he comes into the office and sleeps on his couch all day. Why would they think he wants to do actual work?  For that matter why would a partnership at Florrick, Agos and Lockhart be worth giving up his partnership at L/G? 

[Sandman]

It'd be kind of funny if Howard slept through the whole "Let's trash the office just to get Diane's goat" gambit, and just woke up one day to find that the new firm had sprung up around him in his sleep.

 

I don't think they were bribing him with the financial gain of the partnership per se, but flattering his ego with how much respect he'd command (... I know.)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Sandman

[Cosmocrush]

But didn't they bribe Howard with a partnership in order to get him to be her proxy? (Partner or not, I still don't get how it can be retroactive: Howard's been there the whole time, of course, but he can't have been acting in Diane's interest before Kalinda and Diane approached him.)

 

I seem to remember an exception to the hearsay rule for things said on one's deathbed. I honestly can't remember if there has to be an expectation that the person making the statements will soon be dead, but I think it's something like that.

 I thought that's exactly what they did sandman along with lots of flattery.  And I thought the whole thing was lame filler.     

 

You're right about the legal exception to hearsay, it's called a dying declaration. but I think it only applies if the statement concerns the the person's death. 

 

  From http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/dying_declaration

Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, a dying declaration is defined as a statement made by a declarant, who is now unavailable, who made the statement under a belief of certain or impending death, and the statement concerns the causes or circumstances of impending death. A dying declaration is admissible as an exception to the hearsay rule in any criminal homicide case or a civil case.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[wellread]

     While I do agree that the overall level of The Good Wife has sunk to near soap opera level at times, some things are still very well done.  The way that Alicia's increasing isolation from the firm was suggested by her rapping on her office window and pantomiming a brief supportive message as Cary's situation worsened foreshadowed her complete unawareness of Trey's death at the end of the episode.   Message Discipline indeed! 

[Dowel Jones]

I was also a little disoriented by the return to LG offices

 

.Whatever happened to the offices that FA was supposed to move into before David Lee shanked them with that fumigation order?  I thought they had a lease on that property, and it should be ready by now, for Pete's sake.  Maybe LG will take on the landlord as their client in a lawsuit against FA for breach of contract.  Now that would be convoluted, but interesting.

[merylinkid]

Whatever the dead witnesses told Kalinda is hearsay.    It is not a dying declaration because it was not made at the time of death.   If Kalinda ran up to the car after the accident and they gasped out 'Bishop did it."   That would be an exception.    But if she just says "Hey they told me in a room while they were fine that Bishop did it" that would not be an exception.    Because the guys are available to be cross-examined.   If the statements were made under oath and they were not available due to being, you know, dead, those statements would be admissible.   

 

Basically by offing the witnesses, there went their comments to Kalinda.   At least in the real world.   IN GW World, some judge will let it in.

[jjj]

Yes, they would need to focus on the motive and agents who killed Trey and his relative in order to pursue this line of defense for Cary. 

[Kel Varnsen]

That s probably what i saw on law and order, where a crime boss was killing witnesses so hearsay was allowed. Since they were being murdered to prevent testimony.

[needschocolate]

Also I know the Trey guy was killed but who was killed with him. Was it his church going aunt who convinced him to do the right thing (who also witnessed his phone call to the SA) or his cousin the lab tech who got rid of the coke? Since either one of them would be a valuable witness for Cary. 

 

I am pretty sure that it was the lab tech cousin who was with him and was killed.  So the aunt is the only one of his relatives that could be a witness, but her testimony would be hearsay and inadmissible, if I am understanding correctly.  

 

However, I thought Finn taped the the phone call with Trey.  Maybe he was just putting him on speaker phone or maybe it was the way they trace calls?  Seems odd to show Finn putting the phone down and then not have it be that he was taping it - there should be some sort of explanation, because it wasn't necessary for the viewers' benefit.  

[Kromm]

This election storyline was ill advised from the beginning, but its still early in it and it's ALREADY tiresome.

 

The wacky shenanigans of Cary and his trial are even more tiresome.  And if this witness is now dead, what are we supposed to conclude about Kalinda?  We didn't see her after that was stated.  And to our knowledge the only people know knew were her, the guy's family, and the people at the SA's office.  So is the SA himself dirty?  Is that the whole point here?

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kromm

[romantic idiot]

Too bad the NSA aren't tapping Kalinda. 

 

re: the death thing - didn't TGW use it in Season 1 - against that George character who pretended to die so he wouldn't have to lie, but his statement could be taken as proof? Did I just dream that up? Or is this a completely different thing?

[Kel Varnsen]

I am pretty sure that it was the lab tech cousin who was with him and was killed.  So the aunt is the only one of his relatives that could be a witness, but her testimony would be hearsay and inadmissible, if I am understanding correctly.  

I wonder if the aunt could testify that she told her nephew to be a good church going person and tell the truth about what happened with Cary. Would the conversation from her point of view be considered something they could use?

 

This election storyline was ill advised from the beginning, but its still early in it and it's ALREADY tiresome.

I agree, worst part is that we already so most of how an SA election works with Peter. Every time it just seems that something comes up out of the blue and then Eli comes in and saves the day.

[TV Diva Queen]

You're all probably right about Howard being bribed.  I can tell a show doesn't "have" me anymore when I start facebooking during it.  Which is probably exactly what happened here.  Sorry for the mis-info.

[shapeshifter]

...My guess is that Castro is the mole - that Castro is closely allied with Bishop. He's going after Cary for political gain, but I don't think he wants to go after Bishop....

This would be a big relief and way better than my plot resolution of Kalinda and Cary going on the lam incognito for ever. If you're right, then regarding:

...I will admit that, if my theory is correct, it creates many inconsistencies - like why should Bishop set up the PAC for Alicia if he already owns Castro - but the way this show has been going lately, they would easily overlook/disregard those inconsistencies....

I thought Bishop would have assumed Alicia would have to drop out of the race once it became known who was funding her PAC. And if it didn't become known, funding Alicia might be some sort of "evidence" that he was not tied to Castro.

I wonder if the aunt could testify that she told her nephew to be a good church going person and tell the truth about what happened with Cary. Would the conversation from her point of view be considered something they could use?...

According to L&O U, hearsay is admissible if it is a dying declaration. If Trey told his aunt that he was sure he would be killed as soon as he agreed to testify against Bishop, would that make it a "dying declaration?" Edited November 6, 2014 by shapeshifter

[GHScorpiosRule]

This would be a big relief and way better than my plot resolution of Kalinda and Cary going on the lam incognito for ever. If you're right, then regarding:I thought Bishop would have assumed Alicia would have to drop out of the race once it became known who was funding her PAC. And if it didn't become known, funding Alicia might be some sort of "evidence" that he was not tied to Castro.

According to L&O U, hearsay is admissible if it is a dying declaration. If Trey told his aunt that he was sure he would be killed as soon as he agreed to testify against Bishop, would that make it a "dying declaration?"

 

No. Dying declaration is just that--someone saying something/confessing, as they're dying.

[webruce]

Not sure how I feel about a politically savvy Alicia, other than to say "It's about damn time." What kind of a ninny do you have to be to have your very talented politician husband schmoozing all over the state while you sit and play tennis with your friends? Good political spouses also know the game, but Alicia's all, "What? you hired someone because you are friends with her mother? How is that even ethical?" This woman was the worst kind of suburban mom: sheltered and naive. Sheesh. And she went to Georgetown? Graduated near the top of her class? in D.C.? I like her character arc during these six seasons only by suspending belief that she was such a damn fool at season one.

 

Finn can't discuss the case against Cary, now that he has resigned, but can he tell Diane that the attack against Cary was an attack against Alicia and was entirely motivated by politics? 

 

Apparently Connie Nielsen didn't spend her 12 years away from the office sipping wine and playing tennis. She was clearly studying the law which is why her daughter was so neglected and became such a pathetic attention whore of an intern. 

Yes Ramona Lytton and her daughter Lauren fit that to a t.

 

Also, it was good to see Geneva again and did anyone pick up on the little call back to Frasier when Prady says his dad was a cop who only talked about sports?

I did not catch it at the time, but I can so see Frazier in that. Dad and his dog. LOL

Edited November 14, 2014 by webruce

[webruce]

How did Trey Wagner get found out? Was Kalinda sloppy and was she followed? You know the car accident had to be sabotaged But if it cut brake line or something, the it should be found out. Or did Castro pay him to disappear again, and fake an accident?

It is nice to see Geneva Pine. I wish her, Dana Lodge and Matan Brody were on more. Cary protected Peter. I don't remember the specifics.

The missing cocaine evidence makes me wonder who actually lost it? Maybe it will end up being the lab tech, Liana Depaul? I see Trey Wagner took it. Castro didn't care to help Trey Wagner. He was using Cary to get to Alicia, not Bishop? "So you don't care about Bishop, you care about Alicia Florrick??" Finn I thought knew that at least partly. Finn resigned and will move into Florrick,Agos and Lockhart offices.

Frank Prady lying to Alicia didn't ring true for me. He seemed to be on the up and up, and I felt sorry for him at first about the Info. that Eli found on his family. He seemed like a real nice guy at first. "He Katie Couriced you" said Eli. Who would have given that story to Castro's team?

NO Robyn, Carey, Howard, Dean, David Lee, or Canning today.