Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[zoeysmom]

This is why I can't deal with Bethenny and revisionist history- http://www.realitytea.com/2009/07/07/real-ny-housewives-bethenny-frankel-is-getting-married/  Article dated July of 2009-Bethenny getting engaged.  She had been dating Jason for eight months.  Absolutely nothing about it not being exclusive relationship.  Five years later they hardly knew each other and it was a forced wedding by Jason.  I am sure Jason had a ton of pull getting the Four Seasons as a venue.  It probably had nothing to do with Bethenny and her NBC/Bravo connections. 

 

http://blogs.findlaw.com/celebrity_justice/2011/05/bethenny-frankel-sued-for-100m-by-ex-manager.html  From this Kanbar introduction occurred while Hoppy and Frankel were dating-granted in the early days.  So there is a likelihood Jason and Kanbar knew each other from the beginning.  Also a good reason for Kanbar to insist on a pre-nup or something that protected his interests in the partnership.

 

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20355169,00.html  Bethenny recalls meeting a cheesy loser who hangs out in a nightclub and who showed up the on their first date wearing a bad vest.   They met in November of 2008.  Interesting she chose the words to announce her wedding to Jason.

 

By the way in the spirit of research I am posting old articles because it always helps me to remember what has been passed by the public in the past.

 

My recollection of the Bethenny spin off was she had agreed to do one after finishing RHONYC, Season 3 and the premise of the show became her getting married and having a baby.  There was some talk of her being single Bethenny but there were some serious doubts about guys she was truly interested in agreeing to date her on camera.

 

From the trial http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/lawyers-bethenny-frankel-estranged-husband-battle-custody-trial-article-1.1808281  To me, Bethenny calling him "white trash" and throwing water on him as he slept and threatening him with never seeing his daughter again puts she and Jason on equal ground.  This is just what she admitted to.  Wisely, she settled before Jason or his parents took the stand.

 

Anyway some older articles.  Once there is a court decision it is pretty irrelevant what viewers, fans or detractors think of the situation.

Edited May 18, 2015 by zoeysmom

[Mrs peel]

Here you go, the whole text of the article

http://allthingsrh.com/bethenny-tricked-signing-papers-allowed-jason-live-apartment/

“It is also undisputed that neither [bethenny], [Jason], nor the trustee was ever present in the office” of the attorney who allegedly witnessed their signatures on the trust agreement, according to the documents, and none of them had ever met him before the agreement was signed either. Other documents signed by Frankel and Hoppy as part of the purchase are “unenforceable and invalid,” the papers claim, and Hoppy’s own mother is to blame.

Jason’s mom is a notary in Pennsylvania, and her stamp and signature appear on some of the signing documents. However, the documents state “that she is a ‘notary public in and for the State of New York,’” which is not true. Frankel “claims, and [Hoppy] does not deny, that neither party” ever went to Pennsylvania to sign the forms.

So Frankel “questions whether the signature purporting to be hers … is in fact hers at all, [a claim which] Jason does not deny…”

The purchase of the apartment was funded by a loan in the amount of $2,300,000 and by approximately $2,700,000 from an account in Frankel’s name. Frankel claims that she took out the loan. On November 28th, 2011, Hoppy was appointed sole successor trustee of the trust — for privacy reasons, Frankel says she believed. Now that they’ve split, however, that means he gets to stay there.

Bethenny insisted in court papers that Jason “duped her into executing the trust agreement, in order to make the apartment joint property under the prenuptial.” She “alleges that the apartment was purchased with her separate property, and seeks an award of the apartment to her on that basis.”

On May 4th, the judge ruled that “it is undisputed that the signatures of the parties … were not acknowledged in the presence of the person claiming to have acknowledged those signatures. It is also undisputed that the power of attorneys were not even signed in the state where the notary public was credentialed, Pennsylvania.”

“Contrary to [Jason’s] argument,” the judge said, “the trust agreement is a matrimonial agreement, since it was made between spouses and purports to govern property ownership as between them. Accordingly the trust agreement is subject to strict formality requirements.”

“Where no valid trust was created by reason of failure to comply with the formalities … any transfer into or out of the putative trust is null and void. Accordingly the transfer of the apartment into the trust was null and void.”

“The deed must be reformed in order to reflect the proper identity of the purchase, since the trust never existed, and cannot therefore have taken title to the apartment.”

 

ROL is a gossip rag but the parts in quotes seem to come direclty from the judge ruling, as dumb as they are I seriously doubt that they would just go ahead and make up a ruling, especially one that could in any way or form highlight Jason's sahdy nature, ROL has been since the very beginning one of the rags that has been on Jason's (team) speed dial, every article designed to slam her, just few weeks later they had an article stating that Bethenny was refusing to sign the divorce papers and now we find out why, it was because part of the divorce settlement would had given Jason the apartment. If ROL was going to make up something IMBO it would had been against Bethenny.  

They may not be making up the quotes, but the quotes probably look worse to non-attorneys than they do to attorneys.  Believe me, if the judge wanted to say the document was fraudulent, he would have.  Really, the language is formal but not indicating any shadiness on anyone's part, necessarily. 

 

Re-reading it just made me wonder if the lawyer who "witnessed" nothing was actually just a partner of whoever wrote it, so again not as bad as it sounds.  Were they in someone else's office for the signing?  At their apt?  Not being physically present in an attorney's office to sign something isn't that horrible.

 

And it looks like this is a combination of judge's ruling and Bethenny's pleadings - the "papers claim" language is very likely the latter and not any ruling by the Court.  The beginning would also imply that there is another trustee: "Bethenny, Jason, nor the trustee" is 3 people.  Hmmm...

[QuinnM]

 

Not being physically present in an attorney's office to sign something isn't that horrible.

 

True but if the lawyer signed as a witness, which is what the judge said then the lawyer lied on the trust document.  Now a lot of these irregularities might be non-consequential if it was not a marital agreement involving a spousal trust.  It seems that is what B's lawyers successfully proved.  I'm guessing the strict formality requirements is to insure that one spouse cannot argue that it was signed under duress.

 

http://www.lifeandst...y-divorce-32224

 

Interesting to see the vintage articles.  First they say like all of the reports at the time that two weeks after B filed that J filed for the exact same thing.  Plus the language of both was that Jason was a saint and Bethenny was the devil.  So as time as gone on that has equaled out some.  Most now believe neither one is better than the other.

 

All of it is just interesting speculation but no matter how you slice it, the trust being thrown out was a win in Bethenny's side.  So legally Jason lost ground.  If he really has an investor in the lawsuit this is bad.  Still waiting for something other than B's testimony to confirm the investor stuff.

[zoeysmom]

True but if the lawyer signed as a witness, which is what the judge said then the lawyer lied on the trust document.  Now a lot of these irregularities might be non-consequential if it was not a marital agreement involving a spousal trust.  It seems that is what B's lawyers successfully proved.  I'm guessing the strict formality requirements is to insure that one spouse cannot argue that it was signed under duress.

 

Interesting to see the vintage articles.  First they say like all of the reports at the time that two weeks after B filed that J filed for the exact same thing.  Plus the language of both was that Jason was a saint and Bethenny was the devil.  So as time as gone on that has equaled out some.  Most now believe neither one is better than the other.

 

All of it is just interesting speculation but no matter how you slice it, the trust being thrown out was a win in Bethenny's side.  So legally Jason lost ground.  If he really has an investor in the lawsuit this is bad.  Still waiting for something other than B's testimony to confirm the investor stuff.

I wonder if Bethenny used a Ned Racine type attorney to put together the original trust????  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Heat (As to the poorly prepared documents only).

 

I could never figure out why Bethenny wanted, filed and pursued anything other than joint custody.  (I am avoiding sole or primary because it tends to produce volumes of posts and since the parties stipulates to joint custody it is irrelevant.)  Because there was never even a cross examination of Bethenny I tend to take her testimony, as I would Jason's uncontested testimony, with a grain of salt.  I can't decide if Bethenny actually thought the alleged unflushed toilet incident, the men strolling around a private residence in their boxers or the introduction of hot dogs to Bryn's diet as significant enough to warrant depriving Jason of joint custody.  I do know that my opinion for Bethenny changed by the time she hit Season 3 of her own show.

 

Somewhere in Bethenny's mind she feels it is appropriate or healthy to crucify once non public figures or periphery players in her life if she feels betrayed by them.  My husband, who liked Bethenny, for her ability to market her brand and turn cheap tequila and Crystal Light into a multi million dollar brand said the turning point for him with Bethenny was when she kept digging at her parents both dead and alive as part of her story.  All of a sudden he found her to be pretty much a screeching harpy.  He once said to me a big red flag for him when he was dating was any woman who complained ad nauseum about their mother.  So I question after taking some time away from her show why she is once again revisting her mother issues.  Unpleasant.  That is the thing about bringing up living breathing people they may have their own version of events that cause far more harm than good. 

 

I am feeling for the daughter right now because I don't think this desperate attempt to create a family for Bryn is all that healthy.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

I just hope that Brynn doesn't become the target of her ire once she stops being an easy going child and reaches adolescence. I don't have hope for Bethenny not creating the same chaos she experienced growing up. It's hard enough having a parent with body image issues, much less a famous one.

 

By then, Brynn will know how to play nice and deal with mommy's "special friends."  Daddy will probably be married to someone nice and maybe Brynn will have a little brother or sister…  Mommy will be going through menopause, dating a 25-year-old sandy-haired Latvian and screaming, "NO WIRE HANGERS!"

[QuinnM]

I hope that Jason and his family can provide some normalcy for Brynn, but he was skinny dipping on camera with Bethenny. He is weird too.

I just hope she can fill the void of her dead uncle. I know the creepy grandparents are depending on her.

[zoeysmom]

I hope that Jason and his family can provide some normalcy for Brynn, but he was skinny dipping on camera with Bethenny. He is weird too.

 

He is better off naked-he apparently has no taste in clothes.

 

I just hope she can fill the void of her dead uncle. I know the creepy grandparents are depending on her.

Oh my. . . maybe they just love her as a grandchild. 

[crgirl412]

The Daily Mail is showing photos of her holding hands with a cute guy on Monday May 18. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3087047/Bethenny-Frankel-seen-holding-hands-new-mystery-man-weeks-Michael-Cerussi-split.html

[Celia Rubenstein]

Oh my, just the other day Page Six was linking Bethenny with this guy ... looks like she is doing pretty well for herself! http://pagesix.com/2015/05/12/bethenny-frankel-has-a-new-man-in-her-life/

 

also, with pics of him http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/tv/michael-toppel-bethenny-frankels-new-boyfriend/

Edited May 19, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[breezy424]

I just hope she can fill the void of her dead uncle. I know the creepy grandparents are depending on her.

 

Why do you think that the grandparents are creepy?  I wonder because I've never thought of them that way. 

[ZoloftBlob]

I find the pressure to name the girl grandchild after the dead son a bit creepy. I also find the "every weekend together" stuff a bit uncompromising considering the distance. It's not beyond the pale but yeah, wanting the granddaughter named after the dead son is a bit of a squick to me.

[breezy424]

I find the pressure to name the girl grandchild after the dead son a bit creepy. I also find the "every weekend together" stuff a bit uncompromising considering the distance. It's not beyond the pale but yeah, wanting the granddaughter named after the dead son is a bit of a squick to me.

But was that the grandparent's demand or was that decided by Beth and Jason?  I don't recall the grandparents ever even suggesting that they should name Bryn after their son who died.   I also don't recall ever seeing the grandparents saying that every weekend should be spent together. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

I remember what Jason's mom said when they found out the baby was to be named "Bryn" (IIRC the guy's name had been Bryan).

 

She said "I knew you'd find a way to ? fit in in there?" I think is what she said.

 

It creeped me out a bit.  Like this innocent little girl was somehow supposed to keep the dead brother's memory alive. Plus there was this air of entitlement or expectation.  Almost like the parents would have been bummed out if they had decided to not name the kid after the dead brother.   As if some obligation had gone unfulfilled or something.

 

I found that scene both creepy and presumptuous. 

[WireWrap]

I find the pressure to name the girl grandchild after the dead son a bit creepy. I also find the "every weekend together" stuff a bit uncompromising considering the distance. It's not beyond the pale but yeah, wanting the granddaughter named after the dead son is a bit of a squick to me.

Actually, naming a child after a beloved family member that has died, is not uncommon and IMO, is not "creepy. YMMV

[ZoloftBlob]

I mean really if you're asking for video footage proof - I agree I do not have it to provide.

 

Now let's see. The Hoppys have a dead son who they and Jason are devoted to. The female baby is named after the dead son of the Hoppys. Who here thinks that was absolutely 100 percent the decision of Bethenny Frankel with absolutely no input from the three Hoppys?

 

Raise of hands people.

 

Likewise there's no video evidence of the Hoppy grandparents or Jason stating that they have Jason every other weekend visit and then drive to NY to visit therefore making every weekend a family get together. On the other hand - this has been established as how they live to where its been an arguing point that Bethenny should smile and like it - so are people actually arguing that this isn't an established issue? Or are we playing proof games?

[ZoloftBlob]

I find naming a female child after a male relative a bit odd when the name is a bit of a reach. I mean, Brynn is kind of a reach for a girl. I grew up with a lot of kids with ex hippies for parents - having the odd name didn't always help.

 

It sounded like his mom was told they were considering using a variation of his name. Do you really think Bethenny would name her daughter something she was against, because I do not.

 

I think it's conceivable she might have felt some pressure to agree to their wishes. It's three against one and there's the spector of dead Bryan to manage - I can see someone caving.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[WireWrap]

I remember what Jason's mom said when they found out the baby was to be named "Bryn" (IIRC the guy's name had been Bryan).

 

She said "I knew you'd find a way to ? fit in in there?" I think is what she said.

 

It creeped me out a bit.  Like this innocent little girl was somehow supposed to keep the dead brother's memory alive. Plus there was this air of entitlement or expectation.  Almost like the parents would have been bummed out if they had decided to not name the kid after the dead brother.   As if some obligation had gone unfulfilled or something.

 

I found that scene both creepy and presumptuous. 

It sounded like his mom was told they were considering using a variation of his name. Do you really think Bethenny would name her daughter something she was against, because I do not.

[WireWrap]

I find naming a female child after a male relative a bit odd when the name is a bit of a reach. I mean, Brynn is kind of a reach for a girl. I grew up with a lot of kids with ex hippies for parents - having the odd name didn't always help.

 

I think it's conceivable she might have felt some pressure to agree to their wishes. It's three against one and there's the spector of dead Bryan to manage - I can see someone caving.

Then Please explain how I know so many women named "Jamie"? Just because you personally have not heard the name before does not mean no other female has it. May people now days give their children unique, old fashioned names that few know, or old family names that are rarely used now days.

[breezy424]

Actually, naming a child after a beloved family member that has died, is not uncommon and IMO, is not "creepy. YMMV

I agree 100%.  People naming a child after a loved is not creepy at all.  We named one of our children after my deceased grandfather.  Creepy?   No.  Oh yeah, my child considers it an honor.

[ZoloftBlob]

Jamie Lee Curtis is what... 50ish?

 

How many Brynn's do you know? Are you suggesting it was Bethenny's idea and not the Hoppys and Jason's idea to name a female child after Jason's dead brother?

Edited May 19, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[breezy424]

Jamie Lee Curtis is what... 50ish?

 

How many Brynn's do you know? Are you suggesting it was Bethenny's idea and not the Hoppys and Jason's idea to name a female child after Jason's dead brother?

 

We don't know either way.  We do know that this was the name she was given.  Did Beth ever suggest she had a problem with it?  Not that I recall.

Her name is spelled Bryn, only 1 n and here is the link to the meaning of the name, as I said, it is an old fashioned name.  http://nameberry.com/babyname/Brynn

 

I do not know anyone with that name. My own grand daughter has a unique, old fashioned name as well and I love it.......PS, she was named after me.

 

ETA, If Bethenny did not want that name, she would not have given it to her daughter when she was born. IMO, the name fits her daughter to a T.

Congratulations Wire.  That's very special.

[Celia Rubenstein]

It sounded like his mom was told they were considering using a variation of his name. Do you really think Bethenny would name her daughter something she was against, because I do not.

 

It's not that I think Bethenny was forced into doing it or anything.  But I do think she probably felt some pressure.   There seemed to have been an expectation that some variation on the name "Bryan" would be used. As if it was the proper thing to do.  That's the first thing I am not wild about.  I don't think anyone should be expected to name their child after anyone in particular.  Especially not in these circumstances.  The death of Bryan seems to have been too recent, the wound too fresh.  It's like turning Bryn into a living memorial to the guy. It's creepy.

 

Plus I always felt that part of the reason Jason and his parents felt so entitled to demand all these weekends together was because Bryan was dead and the Hoppys were so alone and Jason wanted to be there for them and also be soothed himself.  The whole scenario was about their pain and their needs and their wants and they never took Bethenny's feelings and needs into account.  That is why it bothered me so much when Jason would tell her she was not "normal" because she did not want what he wanted.  Jason never seemed to consider that maybe he and his family were not that normal, either.  

[WireWrap]

We don't know either way.  We do know that this was the name she was given.  Did Beth ever suggest she had a problem with it?  Not that I recall.

Congratulations Wire.  That's very special.

Thank You, I agree. I was blown away that my son and DIL wanted to give her that/my name. I babysit/grand sit for her every day during the week, we are very close. I really think if Bethenny did not love and want that name she could/would have used it as a middle name instead of her first name. I like that name, a lot and as I said, I think it fits that little girl to a T.

[WireWrap]

Everyone needs to chill out. Commercial break courtesy of New Edition.

I agree, Thank You for the reminder!

[sleekandchic]

It's not that I think Bethenny was forced into doing it or anything. But I do think she probably felt some pressure. There seemed to have been an expectation that some variation on the name "Bryan" would be used. As if it was the proper thing to do. That's the first thing I am not wild about. I don't think anyone should be expected to name their child after anyone in particular. Especially not in these circumstances. The death of Bryan seems to have been too recent, the wound too fresh. It's like turning Bryn into a living memorial to the guy. It's creepy.

Plus I always felt that part of the reason Jason and his parents felt so entitled to demand all these weekends together was because Bryan was dead and the Hoppys were so alone and Jason wanted to be there for them and also be soothed himself. The whole scenario was about their pain and their needs and their wants and they never took Bethenny's feelings and needs into account. That is why it bothered me so much when Jason would tell her she was not "normal" because she did not want what he wanted.Jason never seemed to consider that maybe he and his family were not that normal, either.

Bryan Hoppy died in 1991, at the age of 21. His death was not recent at the time of Bryn's birth and naming in 2010.

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.easternpa/59782/mb.ashx

Many people over the years have commented critically on Jason Hoppy's telling Bethenny that she isn't "normal." It's my opinion that those type of comments by JH are usually taken out of context.

During the three seasons of Bethenny Getting Married?/Bethenny Ever After, B spoke often of her deprived childhood and her sorrow and resentments over being "raised by wolves." Her sessions with her psychiatrist, Dr Amador, were regular features on the show, and B often brought up her anxieties about her upbringing and the effects that upbringing had in her present day. She spoke openly of her ongoing estrangement from her mother and her fractured relationships with her dad and her stepdad.

So when we the viewers would see B and J discussing their issues, B herself would use the abnormalities of her young life as reasons and rationales for her reactions and behaviors in her current life; often, that was the situation when Jason would respond. He would agree with her depictions, and repeat that her experiences were not "normal." I always thought he was trying to use active listening and feedback to show her empathy and an understanding of her inner turmoils, as caused by an unusually-chaotic family situation. Of course, jmo.

Re Bryn's name: first, from my POV, if Bethenny was not ok with the name, she wouldnt have allowed anyone to badger her into it. As an example of standing her ground when it came to her child, I use B absolutely refusing J's request (on camera) to designate his parents as Bryn's legal guardians should Bryn's parents die before her majority. B insisted on naming Veronica, who was the personal assistant/nanny at the time. Veronica was a relatively new hire, and I wondered why B didnt want Julie as the legal guardian, especially since they already had named Julie as Bryn's godmother. ( B and Julie had had a longer, deeper relationship than the newbie Veronica.) But Bethenny was adamant.

My point is, B would not be swerved re naming a guardian, so, to my thinking, she would not have given her daughter a name she hated or felt pressured to give. I think the two areas are fair comparisons, or corollaries. Of course, again, jmo, which is based on what I've observed of B's personality. (And Bryn is a very pretty name, imo.)

Finally, I remember the footage of B arriving at the hospial to give birth by C section. Only Jason and (for a brief time) the film crew were in the labor room with her. Later, after the newborn was taken to the nursery, Jason brought his parents there to see the baby (the audience was told; we did not see the Hoppys' intro to Bryn that day).

What we did see was Jason and the parents visiting B in her hospital room. B was in bed, on her side, clinging to the guardrail. She was exhausted and in pain, but a trooper. She wanted to be the one to announce the news. She said, "...and her name is Bryn!" B seemed ecstatic and very proud to give that news to the Hoppys.

Now, I remember thinking at the time that the name-announcement was a reenactment -- the elder Hoppys are not good actors -- and that the Hoppys already knew. Still, Bethenny wanted that moment on camera of giving her in-laws the emotional news of Bryn's name. They smiled and were truly delighted, but there was no crying over, or mention of, the infant's namesake -- at least not in what the audience witnessed.

Just my memory and my perceptions. :)

Edited May 19, 2015 by sleekandchic

[Mya Stone]

It should go without saying that, unless Bethenny and Jason themselves are posting here, NO ONE knows exactly what any document says, or knows precisely what thoughts have crossed their minds.

It is all conjecture.

We're all adults here, and if we can't act like adults on an anonymous internet message board, well, I don't want to live in that world. I hold you all to the same standard: BE RESPECTFUL OF EVERYONE'S OPINIONS. Because really, that's all ANY of this is. Opinion. Hold each other to that standard.

[MatildaMoody]

It's interesting. I never found the Hoppys to be creepy in and of themselves. i always felt it was something about Jason that was creepy and his clingy manner towards them made it seem as though they enabled that creepiness in him. 

 

As for the stuff Jason said being taken out of context. it is possible that sometimes it was. But I do specifically remember him saying things like, "you didn't have a normal childhood, so you wouldn't understand." it's why I never watched the spinoff after they got married. Watching what it took for them to get married showed me all I ever wanted to see about Jason. Seeing Bethenny try so hard to be something that she wasn't in order to make Jason happy was not entertaining for me. 

 

I could see the writing on the wall while they were planning the wedding and even when they were honeymooning and settling into their new life. There were too many red flags that Jason had a controlling, and yes creepy side for me to find their show entertaining. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Bryan Hoppy died in 1991, at the age of 21. His death was not recent at the time of Bryn's birth and naming in 2010.

 

I would have thought it was much more recent given how determined Jason seemed to compensate to his parents for the loss of his brother.  And to expect Bethenny to help him.  This demand on his part seems to have been really taxing on their relationship.  I think it is in part the reason Jason was willing to stoop so low when he was trying to manipulate her into visiting more often.

 

Many people over the years have commented critically on Jason Hoppy's telling Bethenny that she isn't "normal." It's my opinion that those type of comments by JH are usually taken out of context.

During the three seasons of Bethenny Getting Married?/Bethenny Ever After, B spoke often of her deprived childhood and her sorrow and resentments over being "raised by wolves." Her sessions with her psychiatrist, Dr Amador, were regular features on the show, and B often brought up her anxieties about her upbringing and the effects that upbringing had in her present day. She spoke openly of her ongoing estrangement from her mother and her fractured relationships with her dad and her stepdad.

So when we the viewers would see B and J discussing their issues, B herself would use the abnormalities of her young life as reasons and rationales for her reactions and behaviors in her current life; often, that was the situation when Jason would respond. He would agree with her depictions, and repeat that her experiences were not "normal." I always thought he was trying to use active listening and feedback to show her empathy and an understanding of her inner turmoils, as caused by an unusually-chaotic family situation.

 

 

The context in which I remember Jason telling Bethenny she was messed up, not normal, damaged, etc. was when he was trying to get her to do something with his family and she was resisting.  He would use her own words against her in order to shame her into doing things his way.

 

It was hardly a supportive, active listening type exchange in my opinion.  

 

To me it's not active listening when you have an agenda or are seeking to force the other party to do something they don't want to do.  It's just manipulation.  Jason was trying to capitalizing on Bethenny's weakness and fears and past hurts in order to control her.  He should be ashamed of himself.

 

But there is something about his relationship with his parents that suggests to me such manipulations are a family tradition, so there is little chance he will ever see what he did to Bethenny as wrong. 

[WireWrap]

I would have thought it was much more recent given how determined Jason seemed to compensate to his parents for the loss of his brother.  And to expect Bethenny to help him.  This demand on his part seems to have been really taxing on their relationship.  I think it is in part the reason Jason was willing to stoop so low when he was trying to manipulate her into visiting more often.

 

 

The context in which I remember Jason telling Bethenny she was messed up, not normal, damaged, etc. was when he was trying to get her to do something with his family and she was resisting.  He would use her own words against her in order to shame her into doing things his way.

 

It was hardly a supportive, active listening type exchange in my opinion.  

 

To me it's not active listening when you have an agenda or are seeking to force the other party to do something they don't want to do.  It's just manipulation.  Jason was trying to capitalizing on Bethenny's weakness and fears and past hurts in order to control her.  He should be ashamed of himself.

 

But there is something about his relationship with his parents that suggests to me such manipulations are a family tradition, so there is little chance he will ever see what he did to Bethenny as wrong. 

The same could be said about Bethenny, that she was "manipulating" Jason to do what she wanted. Bethenny used her own childhood as an excuse to not do things with the Hoppy's just as much as Jason did the opposite. Pointing out that Bethenny did not understand how a more normal family functions, is not trying to "control" her IMO. I honestly don't know what Bethenny expected when she married a man that is close to his family, that like being around them, nor do I understand what Jason expected marrying someone that isn't close to anyone in her family nor wants to be. Going into a marriage expecting, wanting, demanding your new spouse to change their core beliefs to suit yours is a recipe for divorce IMO.

[Celia Rubenstein]

The same could be said about Bethenny, that she was "manipulating" Jason to do what she wanted. Bethenny used her own childhood as an excuse to not do things with the Hoppy's just as much as Jason did the opposite.

 

I can't agree that talking with your husband about how your family did (or didn't do) things and how it has effected you in terms of being comfortable with his family is manipulation.  I think it's communication. 

 

Taking what your wife said to you about her feelings and characterizing her as being "not normal" is cruel.  When you do it so that you can get her to do something she doesn't want to do, it's being cruelly manipulative imo.

 

Pointing out that Bethenny did not understand how a more normal family functions, is not trying to "control" her IMO.

 

 

I'm sorry but who the fuck is Jason to decide what is normal and what isn't? Normal is a subjective thing and Bethenny's normal was just as valid as Jason's version.  It may not be what many other people think of as standard, regular, or typical, but it was her norm and for Jason to use what she confided in him about her situation in order to alter her behavior does seem controlling to me.

 

The idea that just because Jason's family did things a certain way or most American families do things a certain way means Bethenny has to do things a certain way really galls me.  Jason really showed his ass on that one. 

 

I honestly don't know what Bethenny expected when she married a man that is close to his family, that like being around them, nor do I understand what Jason expected marrying someone that isn't close to anyone in her family nor wants to be. Going into a marriage expecting, wanting, demanding your new spouse to change their core beliefs to suit yours is a recipe for divorce IMO.

 

 

 

I agree 100%

[WireWrap]

I can't agree that talking with your husband about how your family did (or didn't do) things and how it has effected you in terms of being comfortable with his family is manipulation.  I think it's communication. 

 

Taking what your wife said to you about her feelings and characterizing her as being "not normal" is cruel.  When you do it so that you can get her to do something she doesn't want to do, it's being cruelly manipulative imo.

 

 

I'm sorry but who the fuck is Jason to decide what is normal and what isn't? Normal is a subjective thing and Bethenny's normal was just as valid as Jason's version.  It may not be what many other people think of as standard, regular, or typical, but it was her norm and for Jason to use what she confided in him about her situation in order to alter her behavior does seem controlling to me.

 

The idea that just because Jason's family did things a certain way or most American families do things a certain way means Bethenny has to do things a certain way really galls me.  Jason really showed his ass on that one. 

 

 

I agree 100%

Wait, What? So Bethenny can tell Jason that she didn't have a "normal" childhood/family but he can not talk to her about his or the differences between them, isn't that communication as well?

 

Why is Jason being punished for using Bethenny's own words to describe her childhood/family? Isn't Bethenny using her wacked out childhood as her go to excuse a form of manipulation as well? IMO, it is.

 

Bethenny is the one that kept throwing out that she "wasn't normal", that she "was damaged" that she "was raised by wolves" and has done this since season 1 of the HW show, long before Jason entered the picture. What did Jason reveal that Bethenny told him in confidence, something she had not already said on camera time and time again? Maybe I missed something and that is why I am not understanding your point of view.

 

But it is ok for Bethenny to expect Jason to give up all that he wants to live her lifestyle? It goes both ways and IMO, I saw Jason looking for more middle ground while Bethenny dug her heels in refusing to meet anywhere near the middle.

 

JMO

[TaxNerd]

How many Brynn's do you know? Are you suggesting it was Bethenny's idea and not the Hoppys and Jason's idea to name a female child after Jason's dead brother?

My sister's name is Brynn :) Born in the 80s. There are also 3 Brynn's in my daughter's school.

Speaking of school, from many pages back there was a post listing the monthly expenses. Bryn's preschool is only $600 a month? And in NYC? That seems excessively low.

[FozzyBear]

My sister's name is Brynn :) Born in the 80s. There are also 3 Brynn's in my daughter's school.

Speaking of school, from many pages back there was a post listing the monthly expenses. Bryn's preschool is only $600 a month? And in NYC? That seems excessively low.

Wow, that is crazy cheap. Maybe that's a spilt cost, like B pays 60% and J pays 40%? Or maybe Bryn only goes 1 day a week?

[Celia Rubenstein]

Wait, What? So Bethenny can tell Jason that she didn't have a "normal" childhood/family but he can not talk to her about his or the differences between them, isn't that communication as well?

 

I don't want to belabor the points I've already made and bore everyone, and I promise I am not trying to change your mind. But in the interest of answering your question, I will just say that I think Bethenny was explaining herself to Jason when she said what she said, not making excuses.  There is a difference.  And it is my opinion that Jason was throwing Bethenny's self-acknowledged troubled past in her face for no other reason than to make her feel like she needed to do things his way because his way was normal while her way of doing things was sick, wrong, inferior, "damaged" or "not normal."   I don't see that as "communication."  I see that as being manipulative.  JMHO

[slitz]

Speaking of school, from many pages back there was a post listing the monthly expenses. Bryn's preschool is only $600 a month? And in NYC? That seems excessively low.

 

Yeah, I call BS on that.  We live in Florida and pay anywhere from $800 - $1000 a month for daycare.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I would expect the cost of Bryn's preschool to be closer to $600 a week, not a month! 

[WireWrap]

I don't want to belabor the points I've already made and bore everyone, and I promise I am not trying to change your mind. But in the interest of answering your question, I will just say that I think Bethenny was explaining herself to Jason when she said what she said, not making excuses.  There is a difference.  And it is my opinion that Jason was throwing Bethenny's self-acknowledged troubled past in her face for no other reason than to make her feel like she needed to do things his way because his way was normal while her way of doing things was sick, wrong, inferior, "damaged" or "not normal."   I don't see that as "communication."  I see that as being manipulative.  JMHO

Although we disagree about this, I appreciate your explanation. IMO, all you have to do is flip this coin, it works with both sides, Bethenny's or Jason's. The truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle with both having equal guilt/responsibility in the failure of their marriage. I just hope somewhere down the line these two can put aside their personal dislike/distrust of each other to what's best for Bryn, which is both parents working together in her best interest. JMO

[QuinnM]

I would expect the cost of Bryn's preschool to be closer to $600 a week, not a month!

The numbers I see published today didn't list the school cost but did have $600 as Bryn's clothing over month.

[BeachyMum]

  That's the first thing I am not wild about.  I don't think anyone should be expected to name their child after anyone in particular.  Especially not in these circumstances.  The death of Bryan seems to have been too recent, the wound too fresh.  It's like turning Bryn into a living memorial to the guy. It's creepy.

 

  In some religions it is NOT considered "creepy".   My Grandmother passed away 6 days before I was born (unexpectedly) and my Grandfather broke down and asked my parents to name me after her. I grew up with the same first and last name as her and lived in the same small beach town as my Grandmother did. It didn't creep me out, just felt special. :)

[Celia Rubenstein]

I didn't say Bryn would be creeped out.  I said *I* was creeped out.  My perception as her being a monument to her late uncle is totally my own mental creation and I own that.  I don't expect Bethenny or any of the Hoppy's to find it creepy, either.  Otherwise, why would they have done it?

 

I just sincerely hope, for the sake of the Hoppys, having Brynn named for her late uncle brings them some measure of peace.  Losing a child is the worst pain a person can experience.  They seemed so happy to learn Bryn's name, so I am guessing that is the case - it pleased them. Bethenny seemed fine with it.  And that is what really matters, I guess. 

 

 

[sleekandchic]

We're a Swedish-American family with a wide array of Christian names. I have a somewhat unusual first name (in America) that's of Russian origin because I was named for my dad's sister, who died young and long before I was born.

Meanwhile one of my brandy-new nieces has been named Stephanie to honor the memory of her dad's dear brother Steven, who died about a year before the baby was born.

To me, it's quite common to name children in honor of loved ones.

I think Bryn is a pretty name, and I remember being impressed that Bethenny and Jason came up with it, rather than the more conventional Brianna (which is also pretty). To me, Bryn is a complete Hoppy in the physical-looks department (though Bethenny would disagree).

[Grneyedldy]

IIRC Jason's brother, Bryan was called Bryn by the family. His nick name. I think Bethenny liked the name and wanted to make Jason and his parents happy. It's hard to believe now, but there was love between the two at one time.

As for how Jason treated B regarding her upbringing and her being damaged......I think at first he had empathy and wanted to help her heal. Later he used it against her to hurt her deeply. There was a scene in the last season of her show, they were in Aspen. You could tell that Jason could hardly disguise the disgust he felt for Bethenny. He used every opportunity to make digs and embarrass her. That was one of many times I thought Jason showed his true colors. His behavior over the divorce comes as no surprise.

[Celia Rubenstein]

To me, it's quite common to name children in honor of loved ones.

 

I agree, it is.  I was named for my late grandfather, actually.  I think the creepiness entered into it for me due to my perception of Jason seeming to feel the need to compensate his parents for their loss with his constant visits, even to the detriment of his marriage.  It felt like the naming of his daughter was an extension of that and not just an average namesake situation.  Bordering on just a bit unhealthy, maybe.  Again, that's just my own perception.  

[sleekandchic]

I may be misremembering, but didn't Bethenny invoke Bryan's name and memory during her vows at the wedding ceremony? I have a vague memory of feeling a slight discomfort for the elder Hoppys because the camera focused on them when B said what she said, and I was hoping they wouldnt cry. They didn't.

Also, B invited Mrs Hoppy on excursions during the wedding planning. She definitely took her gown shopping, even though most of that was reenactments. Amsale had reached out to B to offer her the loan of a gown, which she accepted, long before the scenes of B and Mrs H shopping were filmed.

Mrs H was also invited to her bridal shower, but Im not sure about the women-only rehearsal dinner.

Bethenny definitely gave the impression at the time that she was happy with Jason's conventional family and wanted to be part of it, in my opinion.

It concerns me a lot that B is now talking about reestablishing relations with her stepdad so that Bryn will have relatives on her side. B has been critical and harsh toward the stepdad in the past, so how would Bryn benefit by exposure to the man? Im guessing he hasnt mellowed with age.

[zoeysmom]

I can't agree that talking with your husband about how your family did (or didn't do) things and how it has effected you in terms of being comfortable with his family is manipulation.  I think it's communication. 

 

Taking what your wife said to you about her feelings and characterizing her as being "not normal" is cruel.  When you do it so that you can get her to do something she doesn't want to do, it's being cruelly manipulative imo.

 

 

I'm sorry but who the fuck is Jason to decide what is normal and what isn't? Normal is a subjective thing and Bethenny's normal was just as valid as Jason's version.  It may not be what many other people think of as standard, regular, or typical, but it was her norm and for Jason to use what she confided in him about her situation in order to alter her behavior does seem controlling to me.

 

The idea that just because Jason's family did things a certain way or most American families do things a certain way means Bethenny has to do things a certain way really galls me.  Jason really showed his ass on that one. 

 

 

I agree 100%

If Bethenny doesn't want to be told about not having a normal childhood perhaps she should refrain from telling whoever will film or listen how damaged she is, or raised by wolves, or how horrible her parents were or how she was unloved blah, blah. http://hollywoodlife.com/2010/07/08/bethenny-frankel-marriage-childhood-abuse-interview-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/  Or go to televised therapy to talk about how she did not have a normal childhood.  I would say telling Bethenny her childhood was not normal is not really a big reach or a huge insult because normal is usually not defined as the way Bethenny has portrayed her childhood filled with alcoholism, drug use and eating disorders.  Maybe Bethenny needs to STFU and listen to other people describe their childhood so she can better understand why they behave the way they do and why they want what they want.   This isn't Kim Richards talking about how she longed for being a regular kid because they ride school buses and go on field trips and she had to be a child actress and be pampered.  Bethenny's issues, if real, are the things nightmares are made of.  After awhile it seems to me that is all Bethenny wanted to talk about by the third season of her show.  The woman brings on a therapist so she can publicly discuss how awful her parents were to her and how awful her childhood is and after suffocating people with the details she throws yet another hissy fit in the form of a million dollar custody battle (Bethenny claims her attorneys fees are in the millions) to tell yet another tale of woe at the hands of her husband. 

 

I am not saying Bethenny is a bad person for not wanting to spend the holidays with her in-laws.  What I have said is there is an opportunity to create a tradition and include her in-laws.  In Bethenny's world she wanted to whisk Jason and the child off to St. Barth's for the holidays - a new tradition for Jason but same old same old for Bethenny.  So Bethenny is essentially telling Jason that it is her traditions she wants for the holidays.  To me, as a wife and mother of two children, I would weigh whose feelings are going to be affected by such a move. In my dreams I would have loved to have been on a sandy beach with just my husband and the kids and then I wake up and realize there are others involved.  It just seems that Jason and his family would be hurt not spending time together.  I guess maybe Bethenny feelings may feel discounted and part of marrying is taking the other person's feelings into account.  I am sure a vacation December 26 through New Years could be just as fulfilling to Bethenny as one that excludes the Hoppys on Christmas Day.  The other option is always the Hoppys go along -if they refuse it is their loss.  These were not monumental issues.  To me, Bethenny tends to make huge issues out of relatively small things in her life.  When it comes to others, this season on RHONYC, she has pretty much zero compassion for anyone else's feelings.  Bethenny makes her life very public  and after 10 years in the public eye she clawed and scratched for she has no business whining about someone using her owns words back at her when debating an issue. 

[sleekandchic]

zoeysmom, going off-topic for a second because your Christmas-vacation-traditions comments reminded me of an episode of Louis C.K.'s show, Louie.

He's the divorced dad of two little girls and though he has custody during holidays, one year his ex asked if he'd be willing to bend, have the girls stay for Christmas Eve, but leave the next day for a warm vacay with mom and her new bf. Louis agreed.

After he watched the girls and the happy couple leave via elevator, he returned to his apartment and slowly began to undress his Christmas tree. He became more and more agitated, ripping the garland and ornaments off like a madman. Then he gave up, opened his l.r. window and flung the tree, ornaments and all, straight out onto the nyc street below! Boom! Very funny, very real to me.

Divorce with little kids involved is just brutal. Hope Bryn survives unscathed.

[Celia Rubenstein]

If Bethenny doesn't want to be told about not having a normal childhood perhaps she should refrain from telling whoever will film or listen how damaged she is, or raised by wolves, or how horrible her parents were or how she was unloved blah, blah .... Or go to televised therapy to talk about how she did not have a normal childhood.  I would say telling Bethenny her childhood was not normal is not really a big reach or a huge insult because normal is usually not defined as the way Bethenny has portrayed her childhood filled with alcoholism, drug use and eating disorders.

 

I guess Bethenny has talked a lot about her childhood because it really bothers her.  The fact that she is so bothered about it seems to me to be a reason why she should not have it used against her in my opinion, as opposed to making it fair game for use as a weapon against her.

 

 

 The woman brings on a therapist so she can publicly discuss how awful her parents were to her and how awful her childhood is and after suffocating people with the details she throws yet another hissy fit in the form of a million dollar custody battle (Bethenny claims her attorneys fees are in the millions) to tell yet another tale of woe at the hands of her husband. 

 

I don't agree with the assertion that a custody battle is a "hissy fit."  But if it is, then I guess Jason is guilty of throwing his own hissy fit, as well.  

 

I am not saying Bethenny is a bad person for not wanting to spend the holidays with her in-laws.  What I have said is there is an opportunity to create a tradition and include her in-laws.  In Bethenny's world she wanted to whisk Jason and the child off to St. Barth's for the holidays - a new tradition for Jason but same old same old for Bethenny.  So Bethenny is essentially telling Jason that it is her traditions she wants for the holidays.  

 

Christmas is not the only holiday, you realize.  There is Thanksgiving, Easter, Halloween, the Fourth of July and Memorial Day, in addition to birthdays and anniversaries.  If Bethenny singled out one holiday in particular that she had a strong preference about how to celebrate, I don't think it is too much to ask.

[car54]

 Bethenny, evidently you are being real, but your mother didn't sign up to be on the show.    

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/bethenny-frankel-claims-mother-tried-commit-suicide-in-front-of-her-rhonyc-sneak-peek-video/

 

I hope she's prepared for whatever Bryn plans to discuss in her tell-all or reality show when she's older.

[WireWrap]

 

Christmas is not the only holiday, you realize.  There is Thanksgiving, Easter, Halloween, the Fourth of July and Memorial Day, in addition to birthdays and anniversaries.  If Bethenny singled out one holiday in particular that she had a strong preference about how to celebrate, I don't think it is too much to ask.

IMO, just mine, starting your own holiday traditions is all well and fine if both people are on the same page and they were not, clearly. Bethenny can not ignore Jason's wishes and his traditions just because she doesn't have any and IMO, that was the crux of the problem, she had no idea how to spend time with people you love that love you back. Asking Jason to abandon his traditions was cold. JMO

[Aunt Kiki]

IIRC Jason's brother, Bryan was called Bryn by the family. His nick name. I think Bethenny liked the name and wanted to make Jason and his parents happy. It's hard to believe now, but there was love between the two at one time.

As for how Jason treated B regarding her upbringing and her being damaged......I think at first he had empathy and wanted to help her heal. Later he used it against her to hurt her deeply. There was a scene in the last season of her show, they were in Aspen. You could tell that Jason could hardly disguise the disgust he felt for Bethenny. He used every opportunity to make digs and embarrass her. That was one of many times I thought Jason showed his true colors. His behavior over the divorce comes as no surprise

Very true.  And I believe Jason was less than comfortable when Bethenny brought him to dinner to meet her father's racetrack friends (who are also part of her upbringing) and they basically dismissed him.  I can''t remember if it was one of the last BEA episodes, but I remember thinking after seeing it that Jason best sleep with one eye open.  I'm not sure if I'd venture to the racetrack if I were him.

 

A few pages back there was conjecture about Jason working.  I seem to remember that he was working as a personal trainer the last season of BEA.