Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[BBHN]

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They may have, they may not have, praising it is the polite and right thing to do either way. 

They were probably also grateful Bethenny made the effort to begin with.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Just now, BBHN said:

They were probably also grateful Bethenny made the effort to begin with.

I agree. I stand that it was a tacky shallow attempt of a gesture from someone who knows better. IMHO of course :-) 

[BBHN]

I stand the opposite. IMHO of course :-) 

[Celia Rubenstein]

26 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I assumed that it was part of filming since they are filming the current season. Did Jill reach out to them or did Andy reach out and say can we film (all) the ladies (not just Bethenny) at the service?

What I read was that Andy Cohen said on his radio show that Jill Zarin invited Bravo cameras to tape outside the funeral but not inside the service. I didn't hear him myself so I'm going by what was written about what he said.

I have to say I would not put it past Andy Cohen to have called Jill Zarin up and wrangled an "invitation" out of her and is just describing it as Jill inviting Bravo to tape so that he sounds like less of a vulture. But I also wouldn't be surprised ifJill Zarin still has Andy Cohen on her speed dial and couldn't wait to get those cameras over there, either.

One thing seems clear, though - Bethenny was not responsible.

I imagine they taped anybody and everybody of interest who was there, not just our Bethey. Im sure they got footage of the other Housewives (past and present) and various other celebrities and notables who showed up.

There's going to be some kind of a tribute to aired Bobby during the season, Andy said. Which is fitting because Bobby is one of the only decent human beings who ever graced Bravo's airwaves in my opinion, and he deserves it.

[Rap541]

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I assumed that it was part of filming since they are filming the current season. Did Jill reach out to them or did Andy reach out and say can we film (all) the ladies (not just Bethenny) at the service?

I think the important point to acknowledge here is that Bethenny wasn't the person who asked for the cameras - which has been stated previously as a fact - and that Andy and Jill, one or the other or a combo of both were the decision makers over the cameras being there, so the narrative of "Then Bethenny showed up to the funeral with the cameras in tow" is incorrect and not true.

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What is respectful is the family praised it. Class. It does not mean they liked it. They did the right thing even if they rolled their eyes at such a tacky thing. 

Which takes us back to the beginning. Bethenny was not a close friend of the family at this point but sent a gift out of respect to the family as they sat shiva for Bobby. She did the right thing. Whether the family liked it or not, they cited gift as a kind act on Bethenny's part. They did the right thing. Everything else, in my opinion, is basically judging a gift by it's perceived quality and not its intent. 

I mean, at the end of the day, is a tray of rolled up roast beef slices really the ultimate statement of affection? It's a mourning session not a party.

[gundysgirl]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I agree. I stand that it was a tacky shallow attempt of a gesture from someone who knows better. IMHO of course :-) 

But it might not be tacky. We have zero idea. Maybe Jill asked her to send over some of her wine. 

The one thing I am fairly sure of is that Jill loved it. Loved that Bethenny sent her over something, and loved that she could tell the world that Bethenny sent something over. I wouldn't be surprised if she told folks that walked into her pad to mourn that Bethenny had sent over some of her wine. Jill has been looking for any small nugget of recognition from Bethenny for a very long time. She got it and I will bet it made her smile and made things a bit easier. Word on the street is that Bobby wanted them to reconcile. This is at least a step forward. 

And the truth is that Bethenny cannot win for the most part. As someone else mentioned, if she had sent over a different brand of wine there would be snickers that she probably didn't think hers good enough in the end to impress a large group of fairly well-off mourners.  Imagine if she had sent a deli tray that didn't include her own products? What, she doesn't think her stuff up to par with what those people would have been looking for? If memory serves, she was criticized left and right for trying to help victims of hurricanes. Because she will always do something that isn't quite 100% right. As if anyone does anything that is always 100% right, and it isn't just a nice thing when someone tries to do something nice. 

[SCS]

3 hours ago, Rap541 said:

 

I mean, at the end of the day, is a tray of rolled up roast beef slices really the ultimate statement of affection? It's a mourning session not a party.

 

2 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

But it might not be tacky. We have zero idea. Maybe Jill asked her to send over some of her wine. 

 

 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I assumed that it was part of filming since they are filming the current season. 

It's  (presumably) part of a segment about Bobby: "But some mourners were surprised to see Frankel being followed by a full camera crew, filming scenes for “The Real Housewives of New York City” outside the chapel. However, a source close to Jill said she was aware that Bravo would be filming at the service, adding, “This was all about memorializing Bobby — [there was] no drama. It’s very sad for all. He was an important part of the show and a great friend to many who appeared on it.”

https://pagesix.com/2018/01/15/bethenny-and-jill-zarin-make-amends-at-bobby-zarins-funeral/

Being "aware of"  doesn't sound like she set it in motion, to my ear (and Cohen is  such a snake and a liar - and Jill is so hungry to get back on the show - I doubt she'd contradict anything he says). But whichever of the two set the filming in motion,  I very much doubt Bethenny did not give her stamp of approval re: her arrival at the funeral being filmed.  She literally turned up with the camera crew in tow. 

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And the truth is that Bethenny cannot win for the most part

When people list alternatives to what someone did, that -- at least to me -- says the person is being criticized for the choice they actually did make, not unfairly criticized for any choice they might have made.

But this is clearly an eye of the beholder thing -- some people think what she did was tacky,  others think  it was great -- same as it ever was in this forum :)

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[Rap541]

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But this is clearly an eye of the beholder thing -- some people think what she did was tacky,  others think  it was great

Actually, no one has insisted it was great, just that it falls inside normal and acceptable practices that would not normally be derided. 

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Being "aware of"  doesn't sound like she set it in motion, to my ear (and Cohen is  such a snake and a liar - and Jill is so hungry to get back on the show - I doubt she'd contradict anything he says). But whichever of the two set the filming in motion,  I very much doubt Bethenny did not give her stamp of approval re: her arrival at the funeral being filmed.  She literally turned up with the camera crew in tow. 

I'm absolutely certain if Jill didn't want the cameras there, the cameras wouldn't have been there. And Andy and Jill both knew what the drama shot would be and it wasn't Bobby's kids who were never on the show arriving, it was Bethenny arriving despite the rift.

But please don't tell me Jill Zarin and the Zarin family kowtowed to *Bethenny's desire* for the cameras to be there. Andy Cohen is a snake and a liar but he's also well aware of the bad press that "I was forced to film my husband's funeral and embrace my worst enemy on camera" brings.  I personally think filming the service was the tacky thing and I don't think Bethenny had any hand in that decision. 

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Actually, no one has insisted it was great, just that it falls inside normal and acceptable practices that would not normally be derided. 

I'm absolutely certain if Jill didn't want the cameras there, the cameras wouldn't have been there. And Andy and Jill both knew what the drama shot would be and it wasn't Bobby's kids who were never on the show arriving, it was Bethenny arriving despite the rift.

But please don't tell me Jill Zarin and the Zarin family kowtowed to *Bethenny's desire* for the cameras to be there. Andy Cohen is a snake and a liar but he's also well aware of the bad press that "I was forced to film my husband's funeral and embrace my worst enemy on camera" brings.  I personally think filming the service was the tacky thing and I don't think Bethenny had any hand in that decision. 

Had Bethenny not approved/Ok'ed/ or wanted to do it, she would not have done it, so she was in on it as well because Bethenny is just as thirsty to be on camera as Jill is. If this was filmed for the HW show, then shame on all of them, but if it is true that they filmed this for a special about Bobby, then I can give them all a pass, including Bethenny. 

[Rap541]

Sorry, no, ultimately the decision to film Bobby Zarin's funeral rested in the control of the Zarin family.  Bethenny couldn't make them do it, Andy couldn't make them do it. The Zarin family made the call. 

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Sorry, no, ultimately the decision to film Bobby Zarin's funeral rested in the control of the Zarin family.  Bethenny couldn't make them do it, Andy couldn't make them do it. The Zarin family made the call. 

Yes and No. I am sure they could film on the sidewalk, just like they did, without permission from Jill/family. That the cameras came with Bethenny suggests to me that they filmed her getting ready for the funeral, not that they filmed Jill/family getting ready and Jill/family didn't allow the cameras inside for the actual service. So, I do think Bethenny was on board for this just as much as Jill was for them filming outside on the sidewalk. It will be interesting to see if this is for a special on Bobby or if they just use it on an episode of the HY HW show, with a 5 - 10 dedicated to him and to see if they film anything that happened when the service was over, say at Jill's apartment or at a separate luncheon. 

Also, I can see Andy wanting to do something for Bobby, calling Bethenny to see if she approved it and then him calling to talk it over with Jill. I don't see Jill calling Andy to suggest they film it, I see it the other way around.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Had Bethenny not approved/Ok'ed/ or wanted to do it, she would not have done it

I agree (and I think she's the only housewife with that kind of power on RHoNY, the rest do as they're told).

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Actually, no one has insisted it was great, just that it falls inside normal and acceptable practices that would not normally be derided. 

People have praised Frankel as being thoughtful, kind and very generous in sending anything, especially given her history with Jill.

Those comments, to me (not to you, perhaps, but to me) can be fairly described as "Others think it was great". 

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But please don't tell me Jill Zarin and the Zarin family kowtowed to *Bethenny's desire* for the cameras to be there. 

 I never said anything like that.

I said Frankel would not have appeared on camera if she had not been absolutely willing to be filmed at Bobby Zarin's funeral, and was more than happy to arrive with the camera crew in tow. I did not say that Frankel forced the Zarin family into kowtowing to her or anybody else's desire (other than perhaps Jill obeying Andy Cohen's whims, to secure her return to the show. I think Jill would tolerate almost anything to get that apple back).

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, film noire said:

I agree (and I think she's the only housewife with that kind of power on RHoNY, the rest do as they're told).

Several people have praised Frankel as being thoughtful, kind and very generous in sending anything, especially given her history with Jill.

Those comments, to me (not to you perhaps, but to me) can be fairly described as "Others think it was great". 

 I never said anything like that.

I said Frankel would not have appeared on camera if she had not been absolutely willing to be filmed at Bobby Zarin's funeral, and was more than happy to arrive with the camera crew in tow. I did not say that Frankel bullied the Zarin family into kowtowing to her or anybody else's desire (other than perhaps Andy Cohen's whims, to secure Jill a return to the show. I think Jill would tolerate almost anything to get that apple back.)

Does anyone really think that Bravo would have filmed anything about Bobby's funeral had Bethenny not agreed to go and be filmed talking to Jill? IMO, had Bethenny not said Ok to this, it would never have been filmed no matter how much Jill might have wanted it. 

[Rap541]

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Several people have praised Frankel as being thoughtful, kind and very generous in sending anything, especially given her breech with Jill.

Those comments, to me (not to you perhaps, but to me) can be fairly described as "Others think it was great". 

It is thoughtful, kind and generous for someone who had such an ugly breech to send anything. Frankly she could have done nothing and it would have been well within her right to make that choice and the Zarin family would have nothing to complain about. Because there was an ugly breech. As it is, the Zarin family isn't complaining about the gift. It was even mentioned in an article by Jill as part of her describing other people's thoughtful gifts. She's the one who is most likely to have reason to find fault and she's not known for NOT speaking her mind when angry. 

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I said Frankel would not have appeared on camera if she had not been absolutely willing to be filmed at Bobby Zarin's funeral, and was more than happy to arrive with the camera crew in tow. I did not say that Frankel bullied the Zarin family into kowtowing to her or anybody else's desire (other than perhaps Andy Cohen's whims, to secure Jill a return to the show).

And I never said "Bethenny's gift of wine was great" but this is the second time you've said it happened. Are we both in agreement that the decision to film the funeral falls on the Zarin family? 

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Does anyone really think that Bravo would have filmed anything about Bobby's funeral had Bethenny not agreed to go and be filmed talking to Jill? IMO, had Bethenny not said Ok to this, it would never have been filmed no matter how much Jill might have wanted it. 

Doesn't matter. It really doesn't. The decision to film the funeral rested in the control of the Zarin family. No matter if Bethenny begged Andy or Andy begged Bethenny, if Jill and the Zarin family said no, then there would not be any film. The control for that decision was not in Bethenny's hands. 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Does anyone really think that Bravo would have filmed anything about Bobby's funeral had Bethenny not agreed to go and be filmed talking to Jill? IMO, had Bethenny not said Ok to this, it would never have been filmed no matter how much Jill might have wanted it. 

Yeah, I think you're right --  Zarin and Frankel hugging/talking was the moment to get on camera, and build something around  (although Dorinda traipsing into ther service dressed like a cross between Sasquatch and Pepe Le Pew was also A Moment ; )

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[film noire]

34 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

And I never said "Bethenny's gift of wine was great" but this is the second time you've said it happened.

"Others thought it great" does not mean you.  If I'd meant you, I would have said "RAP541 thinks it's great." 

And since this is the second time I've explained what I meant --  and we seem to be getting nowhere --   I will leave the last word on my word choice to you :)

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It was even mentioned in an article by Jill as part of her describing other people's thoughtful gifts. 

Actually,  Jill didn't say that (at least not in the article I linked). In that piece, it was mentioned by the writer of the article (something like "Frankel is said to have sent Skinnygirl wine")  not a quote attributed to Jill.

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[Rap541]

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  On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, Rap541 said:

 but really, this another example of Bethenny being held to a ridiculous standard.

Film_noire then said:

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I don't see how it's a "ridiculous standard" since it's not being applied to Frankel alone -- it's a Jewish (and Christian) tradition - once she let it be known she was attending Bobby's service,  the expectation came into play that she would contribute.  

She chose to meet that obligation by sending Skinnygirl product instead of a shiva basket (or something similar) which I found tacky -- and you think is great -- which means we are very far apart on this, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

You were stating I think it was great. I don't mind agreeing to disagree, but this is back on page 115 and I recalled it because to a point, it just irritates that this is all over a funeral gift. I'm not a huge fan of Bethenny Frankel, she seems like a crazy bitch that would look down on me (frankly all the RHONY wives seem that way) but at the end of the day, she wasn't socially obligated to send anything and she did. Even a useless gift, or a potentially tone deaf gift like my bacon wrapped scallops, garners a "its the thought that counts". I don't seen any grand scheme or machevellian plot here. The gift itself falls into normal "that was nice of her" parameters. I'd understand some of the anger if Bethenny threw red paint on the coffin or made some hideous scene but by all reports, everything she's done falls within the normal parameters of people dealing with a death.

[film noire]

54 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

You were stating I think it was great.

Sorry - I thought you were talking about my "Others thought it great"comment,  since you posted this:

****************

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Film noire said

But this is clearly an eye of the beholder thing -- some people think what she did was tacky,  others think  it was great

Actually, no one has insisted it was great, just that it falls inside normal and acceptable practices that would not normally be derided. 

******************************

I will amend my post  on pg 115 to include the word you used,  "Nice" instead of "great".

ETA:  Can't do it, we're past the editing window  : (

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Does anyone really think that Bravo would have filmed anything about Bobby's funeral had Bethenny not agreed to go and be filmed talking to Jill? IMO, had Bethenny not said Ok to this, it would never have been filmed no matter how much Jill might have wanted it. 

I find the suggestion that Bobby Zarin's passing and funeral are only worthy of being part of the show because of the involvement or approval  of Bethenny Frankel to be an insult to the memory of a good man who contributed very much to the success of this show. 

Bobby Zarin brought the only touch of dignity to this miserable shitfest that I can recall.  The idea that his death is only worthy of coverage because it will please Bethenny is not only to dismiss the contribution of both Jill and Bobby to the early seasons of The Real Housewives of New York City, but is also to dramatically overstate Bethenny's power and importance.

I am confident Bobby's passing would be worthy of noting even if Bethenny Frankel was not on the current incarnation of the series.

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I find the suggestion that Bobby Zarin's passing and funeral are only worthy of being part of the show because of the involvement or approval  of Bethenny Frankel to be an insult to the memory of a good man who contributed very much to the success of this show. 

Bobby Zarin brought the only touch of dignity to this miserable shitfest that I can recall.  The idea that his death is only worthy of coverage because it will please Bethenny is not only to dismiss the contribution of both Jill and Bobby to the early seasons of The Real Housewives of New York City, but is also to dramatically overstate Bethenny's power and importance.

I am confident Bobby's passing would be worthy of noting even if Bethenny Frankel was not on the current incarnation of the series.

I agree that Bobby was a great guy but I disagree about Bravo wanting Bethenny's approval on her/Jill being filmed. They could have done a special using past footage of him on the show and filmed the HWs (including Bethenny) expressing their memories/feelings about him. Instead, they elected to film the comings/goings of people attending his memorial/funeral, which includes Bethenny reaching out to Jill on the sidewalk outside (a big deal that could/should have been private IMO).

[BBHN]

Yeah, I haven't seen anything to indicate B grabbed a camera crew and ran with her to the funeral.

If they were focusing on Bethenny and Jill reuniting outside the funeral home, well that just means the Bravo crew probably knows what the viewers want to see. Do they really want to see Jill with Dorinda or Kelly? Or even Ramona? Probably not, they want to see Jill and Bethenny meeting up. And the producers know this.

Jill could have asked Bravo not to film there, had she wanted to. And even if she had no control over them being allowed to film on the street, she herself could have just stayed inside and greeted everyone in there. She really didn't have to meet people outside.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

They could have done a special using past footage of him on the show and filmed the HWs (including Bethenny) expressing their memories/feelings about him. 

Exactly -- but since Bravo doesn't give a fuck about Bobby Zarin's kindness or decency  (all they truly care about is $$$) they filmed what they thought would get the asses in the seats.  And if the "Jill meets Bethenny at Bobby's funeral" moment hadn't been in play,  nothing would have been filmed and the most Bobby would have gotten was an "In memory of" card at the end of an episode. (And even that I have doubts about). 

Edited January 28, 2018 by film noire

[KungFuBunny]

They've gotten big

[Celia Rubenstein]

14 hours ago, film noire said:

I said Frankel would not have appeared on camera if she had not been absolutely willing to be filmed at Bobby Zarin's funeral, and was more than happy to arrive with the camera crew in tow. 

 

 Can we please dispense with the phrase "arrived with a camera crew in tow?"  It implies that the camera was there only at Bethenny's behest and was under her direction, trailing around in her wake to document her appearance. That wasn't the case. Everyone who was there was subject to taping, not just Bethenny. It was not her personal camera crew.

If she arrived at the same time the crew did, it was because Bravo knew that her arrival and reunification with Jill would be the money shot and they didn't want to miss it. It's not Bethenny's fault that the audience interest is focused on her and Jill. This over-emphasis on the fact that she showed up with the crew feels like an attempt to portray her as controlling and egotistical when I think it was really Bravo simply knowing what their audience is most interested in.

 

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

... I disagree about Bravo wanting Bethenny's approval on her/Jill being filmed. They could have done a special using past footage of him on the show and filmed the HWs (including Bethenny) expressing their memories/feelings about him. Instead, they elected to film the comings/goings of people attending his memorial/funeral, which includes Bethenny reaching out to Jill on the sidewalk outside (a big deal that could/should have been private IMO).

So are you saying Bethenny should have put her foot down and said "no" to Bravo, that they couldn't tape her meeting Jill outside the service? 

Gosh, it seems obvious that Jill wanted it to happen. She invited cameras to be there and she stood out on the street in front of them greeting people. She knew Bethenny was coming to the funeral. She reportedly wanted her there. She knew what a big deal the two of the meeting face-to-face would be in terms of the show, that it would be The Moment everyone wanted to see. Do you really think Bethenny should have denied this to Jill? 

I must admit I'm not sure why Bethenny is expected to be the arbiter of good taste who is required to protect grown-ass woman Jill from her own bad judgement or redirect national TV network Bravo from its standard classless behavior. Why is it her job? 

It sounds like something The Countess of Classlessness  should be responsible for handling. But I guess she was still in that mysterious "rehab" and was unavailable so the duty fell to Bethenny ...?

[KungFuBunny]

From Jill Zarin's Instagram:

mrsjillzarin I’m sitting around going thru photos and put together a collage of @bethennyfrankel with my family. Bobby gave me the best 1 liners and a few come to mind. “ 1 more that’s it!”and “here’s to those who wish us well and those who don’t can go $&@! Themselves!” Please share your favorite 1 liners below. Miss B...thanks for the memories tonight ❤️Jill

 

This is just my opinion, but I think Jill liked that Bethenny went to the funeral.

[BBHN]

I dunno, KFB, I can't tell for sure if she did.

[KungFuBunny]

1 minute ago, BBHN said:

I dunno, KFB, I can't tell for sure if she did.

[Jel]

Hmm, can we be sure Bethenny didn't hack into Jill's Insta to post those? 

[Celia Rubenstein]

16 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

From Jill Zarin's Instagram:

mrsjillzarin I’m sitting around going thru photos and put together a collage of @bethennyfrankel with my family. Bobby gave me the best 1 liners and a few come to mind. “ 1 more that’s it!”and “here’s to those who wish us well and those who don’t can go $&@! Themselves!” Please share your favorite 1 liners below. Miss B...thanks for the memories tonight ❤️Jill

 

This is just my opinion, but I think Jill liked that Bethenny went to the funeral.

 

7 minutes ago, BBHN said:

I dunno, KFB, I can't tell for sure if she did.

I don't know how Jill feels about Bethenny going to the funeral, but I can tell from that photo collage that Jill is definitely pissed off about the Skinny Girl wine Bethenny sent. You can just feel the anger, lol

[WireWrap]

45 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

 Can we please dispense with the phrase "arrived with a camera crew in tow?"  It implies that the camera was there only at Bethenny's behest and was under her direction, trailing around in her wake to document her appearance. That wasn't the case. Everyone who was there was subject to taping, not just Bethenny. It was not her personal camera crew.

If she arrived at the same time the crew did, it was because Bravo knew that her arrival and reunification with Jill would be the money shot and they didn't want to miss it. It's not Bethenny's fault that the audience interest is focused on her and Jill. This over-emphasis on the fact that she showed up with the crew feels like an attempt to portray her as controlling and egotistical when I think it was really Bravo simply knowing what their audience is most interested in.

 

So are you saying Bethenny should have put her foot down and said "no" to Bravo, that they couldn't tape her meeting Jill outside the service? 

Gosh, it seems obvious that Jill wanted it to happen. She invited cameras to be there and she stood out on the street in front of them greeting people. She knew Bethenny was coming to the funeral. She reportedly wanted her there. She knew what a big deal the two of the meeting face-to-face would be in terms of the show, that it would be The Moment everyone wanted to see. Do you really think Bethenny should have denied this to Jill? 

I must admit I'm not sure why Bethenny is expected to be the arbiter of good taste who is required to protect grown-ass woman Jill from her own bad judgement or redirect national TV network Bravo from its standard classless behavior. Why is it her job? 

It sounds like something The Countess of Classlessness  should be responsible for handling. But I guess she was still in that mysterious "rehab" and was unavailable so the duty fell to Bethenny ...?

So now Jill "invited" the cameras? That makes it sound like this was all Jill's' idea to begin with, like Andy had nothing to do with it. It is a shame that Jill allowed this but I will cut her some slack, after all I doubt she was thinking all that clearly so soon after Bobby's death.  And, Yes, Bethenny could have said no to filming with Jill, she has done so before, just last season as a matter of fact.

[BBHN]

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Hmm, can we be sure Bethenny didn't hack into Jill's Insta to post those? 

Obviously, Bethenny didn't hack into Jill's Insta.

She got one of her assistants to do it instead ;)

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Yes, Bethenny could have said no to filming with Jill, she has done so before, just last season as a matter of fact.

Given that she wanted to attend the funeral, and the cameras were waiting outside the funeral home, what was Bethenny to do? Go in through the back? Teleport to inside the funeral home?

Hmmm...SkinnyGirl Teleporting....get on it, Bethenny.

Edited January 28, 2018 by BBHN

[film noire]

On 1/28/2018 at 1:03 PM, KungFuBunny said:

This is just my opinion, but I think Jill liked that Bethenny went to the funeral.

Probably, but I don't think Jill liked it for Frankel herself, but for the potential benefit to Jill.

And something about those photos feels very calculated to me.  Showing Bethenny (a woman without a close family) in the bosom of Jill's family (mother, daughter and husband) feels like a move to soften Frankel up -- start the process of Zarin (at least in Jill's mind) returning to the show -- I'm pretty sure if Frankel were a "loser" (had been living an obscure and unmoneyed life for the last several years) Zarin would not have wanted Frankel there. 

Bethenny as a means to an end, not the end itself. 

I also wonder if Frankel suspects that's Jill M.O. (in general) and likely a big part of Bethenny's "Everybody's jelly of me and I live in terror of being harmed by them" confessional last season was her projecting all this unresolved shit with Jill onto the other women. Somebody she considered a genuine friend brutally used her - and used her husband's medical crisis as a plot point (so sick) and she didn't see it coming -- so now she expects it from every direction. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

29 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Obviously, Bethenny didn't hack into Jill's Insta.

She got one of her assistants to do it instead ;)

Given that she wanted to attend the funeral, and the cameras were waiting outside the funeral home, what was Bethenny to do? Go in through the back? Teleport to inside the funeral home?

Hmmm...SkinnyGirl Teleporting....get on it, Bethenny.

Again, IMO, had Bethenny not agreed to film with Jill outside of the memorial/funeral, there would have been no Bravo cameras there to begin with. And, Yes, Jill is guilty of exploiting her husbands death as well but I cut her some slack because no one thinks clearly at times like that, not even famehos. 

[BBHN]

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Again, IMO, had Bethenny not agreed to film with Jill outside of the memorial/funeral, there would have been no Bravo cameras there to begin with.

Well, we can't know for sure that is fact. At least, I wouldn't. IMO.

Obviously, Jill + Bethenny = the money shot, but who can really say. The media at least would have been there snapping piccs, given that more than a few HWs gathered there, plus Marla Maples.

Edited January 28, 2018 by BBHN

[Rap541]

I just want to point out that Bobby is clearly holding a glass of wine with Bethenny, an indicator that he did indeed occasionally imbibe. 

[KungFuBunny]

56 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Obviously, Bethenny didn't hack into Jill's Insta.

She got one of her assistants to do it instead ;)

Was it Wassamattah or Wassgoingon?

Side Topic: KungFuBunny loves lemons - can you tell?

[KungFuBunny]

15 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

I just want to point out that Bobby is clearly holding a glass of wine with Bethenny, an indicator that he did indeed occasionally imbibe. 

Where's Ramona who once said Jill drinks Diet Coke because she's an alcoholic?

Where's Dorit to criticize the glasses?

Bethenny is busy reviewing her signage.

Luann is in the bathroom doing not bathroom activities.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

It is a shame that Jill allowed this but I will cut her some slack, after all I doubt she was thinking all that clearly so soon after Bobby's death.  And, Yes, Bethenny could have said no to filming with Jill, she has done so before, just last season as a matter of fact.

 I'm having a hard time picturing Jill Zarin as a foggy-headed widow so blinded by grief that she needs to be restrained to keep her from making foolish decisions in the wake of her husband's death. Restrained by her alleged arch nemesis, no less.

Maybe if Jill were engaging in behavior that was not totally 100% right up her alley (famewhore) I might think you had a point. But this is just her standard operating procedure. She loves to be in front of the camera and wants her apple back more than she wants air to breathe. Who is anyone else to second guess her (well, actually now that I think about it Bobby's family, his children, everyone who knew him and had any respect for him etc). But my point is it's not Bethenny's place to do Jill's thinking for her. To be honest it kind of feels like reaching for a way to somehow make Bethenny responsible for the camera's presence despite all evidence to the contrary. 

This was Jill's decision, not Bethenny's.

And I disagree with the assertion that

 

42 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

.... had Bethenny not agreed to film with Jill outside of the memorial/funeral, there would have been no Bravo cameras there to begin with. 

Aside from the fact that this ignores the importance of Bobby Zarin to the show, the presence of numerous other notables in the crowd, as well as the number of housewive's who attended, it also ignores the fact that Bethenny's absence from the funeral would have in and of itself been worthy of covering. Although I'm sure that she would be just as excoriated for failing to appear as she is being for agreeing to tape with Jill. LOL

Seriously, though ... I'm left wondering how Bethenny could have avoided censure for her behavior in the situation, to be quite honest. Seems like she's damned if she did and damned if she didn't.

1 hour ago, BBHN said:

Teleport to inside the funeral home?

 

Maybe she could have slept inside the funeral home the night before. Or had herself carried in inside a casket to avoid being seen. Or just attended the service via Skype. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 I'm having a hard time picturing Jill Zarin as a foggy-headed widow so blinded by grief that she needs to be restrained to keep her from making foolish decisions in the wake of her husband's death. Restrained by her alleged arch nemesis, no less.

Maybe if Jill were engaging in behavior that was not totally 100% right up her alley (famewhore) I might think you had a point. But this is just her standard operating procedure. She loves to be in front of the camera and wants her apple back more than she wants air to breathe. Who is anyone else to second guess her (well, actually now that I think about it Bobby's family, his children, everyone who knew him and had any respect for him etc). But my point is it's not Bethenny's place to do Jill's thinking for her. To be honest it kind of feels like reaching for a way to somehow make Bethenny responsible for the camera's presence despite all evidence to the contrary. 

This was Jill's decision, not Bethenny's.

And I disagree with the assertion that

 

Aside from the fact that this ignores the importance of Bobby Zarin to the show, the presence of numerous other notables in the crowd, as well as the number of housewive's who attended, it also ignores the fact that Bethenny's absence from the funeral would have in and of itself been worthy of covering. Although I'm sure that she would be just as excoriated for failing to appear as she is being for agreeing to tape with Jill. 

 I'm left wondering how Bethenny could have avoided censure for her behavior in the situation, to be quite honest. Seems like she's damned if she did and damned if she didn't.

Maybe she could have slept inside the funeral home the night before. Or had herself carried in inside a casket to avoid being seen. Or just attended the service via Skype. 

Of course Jill had the final word on whether or not they filmed this but I stand by my opinion that had Bethenny not agreed to it to begin with, Bravo would not have sent a film crew there. Yes, Jill is a fameho but that doesn't mean that she was thinking clearly when she agreed to allow the cameras to film her greeting people as they entered the memorial. Again, IMO, they did not need to film anything outside his funeral for Bravo to do a special on Bobby, photographs of the various HWs going in would have been enough.  

I am glad Bethenny went to his memorial, I just don't think she (or Jill) need to be filmed outside like they were. No one here, including me, have said that Bethenny should not have gone. It was filming it that feels wrong/exploitive. 

[BBHN]

Quote

It was filming it that feels wrong/exploitive. 

Then Jill shouldn't have allowed it, and/or Bravo shouldn't have sent cameras.

[Rap541]

Quote

Of course Jill had the final word on whether or not they filmed this

So Jill and by proxy the Zarin family are the ones who decided filming was appropriate. Not Andy or Bethenny.

Quote

It was filming it that feels wrong/exploitive. 

Agreed. But what BBHN just said - Jill shouldn't have allowed it. She was the decision maker and she doesn't appear to be mentally incompetent. She made the call. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

12 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No one here, including me, have said that Bethenny should not have gone. It was filming it that feels wrong/exploitive. 

I wasn't suggesting anybody said Bethenny should not have gone to the funeral. My point was that had she not gone it still would have been Bravo camera worthy because the fact that she didn't show up would have been a point of drama for the show.

What it boils down to is Bravo was gonna tape this shit either way, provided Jill Zarin was willing to permit it.  Whether Bethenny showed up or not, Bravo cameras would have been there. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[KungFuBunny]

6 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

So Jill and by proxy the Zarin family are the ones who decided filming was appropriate. Not Andy or Bethenny.

Agreed. But what BBHN just said - Jill shouldn't have allowed it. She was the decision maker and she doesn't appear to be mentally incompetent. She made the call. 

 

[WireWrap]

39 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I wasn't suggesting anybody said Bethenny should not have gone to the funeral. My point was that had she not gone it still would have been Bravo camera worthy because the fact that she didn't show up would have been a point of drama for the show.

What it boils down to is Bravo was gonna tape this shit either way, provided Jill Zarin was willing to permit it.  Whether Bethenny showed up or not, Bravo cameras would have been there. 

I believe that Bravo would have taken photos of those going to the memorial but not filmed it had Bethenny not agreed to being filmed. They wanted to catch/film that moment between Bethenny/Jill more than anything else IMO. 

That said, Yes, they needed Jill's permission to film it and they also needed Bethenny's permission to film her as well. I just wish one of them had said No to Bravo. 

[Rap541]

The difference would be Bethenny is currently contractually obligated to Bravo because she's a member of the cast, and they can justify forcing the point because the show is filming . Jill is not. Jill is very much not employed by Bravo any more and if Jill said no, there's no way Bravo could have the camera crew there. Because they have to have the Zarin family's permission. Without Jill's permission to film, if they showed up to film Bethenny or Dorinda, Jill could legitimately say *Bravo* was intentionally exploiting her family and forcing the family to allow the cameras.

Put another way, if Bethenny said no to filming, and Jill said yes, the camera crew could still show up and film the funeral, and Bethenny might be in trouble for refusing to film when she's under contract.. If Bethenny said yes to filming and Jill said no, Bravo would be in a TON of shit if they filmed against Jill's will, because Jill does not work for Bravo and has no contractual obligation. There's no way filming would have occurred without Jill's permission and Bethenny's views on the matter would have been at best a minor consideration. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I believe that Bravo would have taken photos of those going to the memorial but not filmed it had Bethenny not agreed to being filmed.

What good would photos be to Bravo? They are a tv network, not a magazine.

 

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

That said, Yes, they needed Jill's permission to film it and they also needed Bethenny's permission to film her as well. I just wish one of them had said No to Bravo. 

 I can see why people think it's poor taste to be filming a reality TV show outside someone's funeral.  But according to the media, Bobby wanted Jill and Bethenny to make up. If having them meet at his funeral is what it took to get the ball rolling - even if they only got together because it was being taped for a TV show - I don't think he'd mind. Hopefully they were sincere about things and it wasn't all just done for show on Bethenny's part, or just to regain her apple on Jill's part. Time will tell. But apparently Bobby really wanted to see some kind of reconciliation. He didn't live to see it but he essentially managed to bring it about which I think would please him. So I can't say that I'm really all that bothered by it.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

The difference would be Bethenny is currently contractually obligated to Bravo because she's a member of the cast, and they can justify forcing the point because the show is filming . Jill is not. Jill is very much not employed by Bravo any more and if Jill said no, there's no way Bravo could have the camera crew there. Because they have to have the Zarin family's permission. Without Jill's permission to film, if they showed up to film Bethenny or Dorinda, Jill could legitimately say *Bravo* was intentionally exploiting her family and forcing the family to allow the cameras.

Put another way, if Bethenny said no to filming, and Jill said yes, the camera crew could still show up and film the funeral, and Bethenny might be in trouble for refusing to film when she's under contract.. If Bethenny said yes to filming and Jill said no, Bravo would be in a TON of shit if they filmed against Jill's will, because Jill does not work for Bravo and has no contractual obligation. There's no way filming would have occurred without Jill's permission and Bethenny's views on the matter would have been at best a minor consideration. 

Not really, Bravo hasn't forced Bethenny to do/show anything she doesn't want to show. Bethenny had every right to say no to Bravo. 

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

What good would photos be to Bravo? They are a tv network, not a magazine.

 

 I can see why people think it's poor taste to be filming a reality TV show outside someone's funeral.  But according to the media, Bobby wanted Jill and Bethenny to make up. If having them meet at his funeral is what it took to get the ball rolling - even if they only got together because it was being taped for a TV show - I don't think he'd mind. Hopefully they were sincere about things and it wasn't all just done for show on Bethenny's part, or just to regain her apple on Jill's part. Time will tell. But apparently Bobby really wanted to see some kind of reconciliation. He didn't live to see it but he essentially managed to bring it about which I think would please him. So I can't say that I'm really all that bothered by it.

Bravo used photos in Luann's special and I am sure they will use photos in 1 for Bobby as well. 

[film noire]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Not really, Bravo hasn't forced Bethenny to do/show anything she doesn't want to show. Bethenny had every right to say no to Bravo. 

 

Absolutely -- Bethenny Frankel is not at the mercy of anyone in production, imo -  if she'd said "No, I don't want to be filmed at Bobby's funeral" then she would not have been filmed at his funeral. 

Quote

Bravo used photos in Luann's special and I am sure they will use photos in 1 for Bobby as well. 

Good point. 

[Rap541]

Quote

Not really, Bravo hasn't forced Bethenny to do/show anything she doesn't want to show. Bethenny had every right to say no to Bravo. 

Bethenny is under contract to them. They make work with her if something awkward comes up, because she's one of their bigger talents for better or for worse, but they do have the power to insist. She's not all powerful (although because it's a funeral, I doubt they would have pressed except for, you know, the Jill factor)

Jill is not currently under contract with Bravo, therefore Jill has the power to refuse filming in a way that Bethenny does not. In this particular instance, the only way Bravo was able to film Jill on the sidewalk was with Jill's express permission that she could have refused with no penalty. And if Bravo persisted, she would have the right to decry their behavior as harassing, especially in a time of grief.  There's no way Bravo filmed any aspect of Bobby Zarin's funeral without Jill's permission and Bethenny saying yay or nay was never the deciding factor. If Jill had said no, then there's no discussion or debate over Bethenny's participation because Jill was the decision maker and Bravo had utterly no legal standing to force Jill to film. 

Put more simply, if Bethenny had said no, and Jill said yes - Bravo could at least argue in the ensuing lawsuit that Bethenny was under contract and should have let them film. If Bethenny said yes, and Jill said no, Bravo has no legal ax to grind because Jill doesn't work for them and has every right to tell them to fuck off. 

Jill was the decision maker and the deciding factor. Nothing would have been filmed if Jill said no.