S01.E02: 2

[taragel]

 

At this point Allison's story is so much more riveting to me than Noah's. She really has so much going on in terms of perceptions and truth. At this stage Noah's seems like a fairly typical mid-life crisis-type affair. Which again, may be due to my own bias.

 

This indeed. I hope some sort of twist comes to Noah's side of the story--perhaps, especially, in his interrogation scenes, which are so straightforward in contrast to the caginess of Alison's--because the interest level for his segment is so much lower for me. It's rather Gone Girl-ish in that respect, I suppose; I could believe that potentially Alison even killed Cole. She seems far more unreliable/dishonest in future than Noah who just seems...befuddled so far? And nothing's given me a hint yet that he could be pulling off a deception.

 

The drugs-for-fish thing is still making me wonder, too. That would be such an obvious (too obvious?) conclusion given what we saw--yet Scotty told Cole at the ranch that he was flirting up Lolita, because they're hurting for money. I wouldn't think they'd be hurting for it if they're dealing drugs on the side. And given that Ali took the cooler to train station/Caleb--he was in on it. So it's not just a Cole/Alison thing. 

 

But also--why would they be buying fish as a pretense anyway? For what? They don't own a restaurant. Is it just personal fish-buying from a commercial fisherman? Odd. And not a great cover story. 

[attica]

The difference is so striking it can't just be put down to "how we see ourselves, vs. how others see us" , it's too pronounced.

 

With due respect, I disagree that there's a limit to the gulf between the two. I've had anorectic friends, dangerously thin, who see themselves as waddling tubs of lard. Yes, that's a dysmorphic disorder, but I think a human's perception is the most malleable thing in the world. And we do not yet have any/enough information about how disordered either Noah or Allison is, so at this point the sky's the limit.

 

In other news, that the great Mare Winningham is playing Pacey's mother upsets me. It means I am old enough to be the mother of grownups, and I don't get how that can be true. Something must have warped the time-space continuum. Right? RIGHT?!?!

[justcris]

Not only perception, but memory is also a very tricky thing.

So far this show has a lot of angles, all interesting to me. There's the story about the affair, the different recollections of how it started, the mystery about who died, and the mystery of how Allison transformed from the person we see in the flashbacks to the person we see sitting at the police station.

One of the better new shows of the fall for sure.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

 

I wonder if [Alison] caused the death of her child - directly or indirectly. It seems that incident has to come into the story in a larger way.

 

Alison can't swim.  And her mother-in-law suggested that Alison and Cole move in with her, should they have another child - so Alison could have more "help."

  

Yeah, I think we are meant to think that Alison thinks that The World thinks that she indirectly caused her child's death. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by RimaTheBirdGirl

[BigMamaThorton]

 

 

But in regard to the dress specifically, unless someone can say that one dress was much more obviously expensive than the other, there is no reason for Alison's memory to be inaccurate on this point. On the other hand, Noah's exchange with his wife about what to wear is probably meant to say something about how he views their relationship.

While Alison may be resentful about the tourists, Noah has other things to be resentful about which also colors his memory. (bolding mine)

Well, the dress he chose, while being the lesser of color, was the more dramatically revealing in his version of events.  It was rather as though he wanted her to be more revealing, sexually, by wearing the slinky dress versus the dress that was attractive, but sedate. IOW, he views her, and by extension, their marriage as once sexually appealing, but presently, for some time, attractively sedate.

 

 

Interesting, particularly since the only person who explicitly purchases Allison's services during the course of the evening was Margaret, Noah's mother-in-law, when offered Allison a thousand dollars if Allison spilled a drink on Bruce. It makes me wonder why Allison agreed.

True, but it's not as though she said, "Hey, Allison, if I give you a grand will you dump this drink on that man over there?"  Dehumanizing, in both word and action.  Again, the emphasis on the "haves" not seeing the "have nots" was painfully obvious when she referred to her, blatantly, as "that girl who lost her baby."  She is, for the moment, simply that girl and specifically not Allison;  She's a cautionary tale told as dinner conversation, an anecdote to move the evening along, that girl who borrows a dress, is uncomfortable in it, and has it publicly adjusted, and criticized, she's an object to compare oneself against, allowing the comparer to remain superior.  If she wasn't, the mother would not have suggested an action in exchange for financial recompense….she didn't ask one of her own to do it because while one of her own is likely more easily purchased in this world, it would be gauche to behave as such. 

 

 

It's been a long time at this stage, but I have waited tables, including cocktail and you know, maybe it's just down to a personality difference, but I would never think of it in those terms. I think because when I did any kind of waiting tables, I didn't so desperately need the income that I had to stay.

Which suggests that one would only wait tables in those situations wherein they are in desperate need of additional income, thus eliminating the opportunity to willfully take a walk.  Desperation is the key, and depending on whose perspective your looking at, need for extra cash and owning it (Noah) or need not to face whatever exists in her home, desperate for something else to do (Allison), bottom line is desperation.  In a state of desperation, one can be purchased, made to feel purchased, and given how the scenes played out, that was exactly the point.  Call it the 'Madonna/Whore" conundrum….that she appears, in Noah's version, to rather own her "whoredom," flaunting it even does not eliminate that overall feeling on being purchased, nor does it diminish the veracity of Allison's version.  Each version contains "ownership" of another in some fashion, but her "lamb-to-slaughter" vs. his "empowerment through sexual blatancy," are simply their coloring outside their own individual lines so as to sell it to themselves.

 

What I mean to say is Noah can't share Allison's version because that would make him a predator, he would have to acknowledge himself as such, an elitist who believes some folks are worth more than others, some are there to be used.  Alternatively, Allison can't share Noah's version because she would have to acknowledge her own culpability, her own needs which lie deep, but are easily accessed so as to manipulate her immediate environment, and those within.

 

It's all interesting enough for me to hang in there, regardless. 

[Box305]

But in Noah's version he's a cowboy. On a horse. With a hat.

 

I know but he didn't look as hot at least to me. If he were in the gray shirt with the unkempt hair and riding on the horse... I can't finish this sentence with a rational thought.  

[shelley1234]

I wonder if she caused the death of her child - directly or indirectly. It seems that incident has to come into the story in a larger way.

 

 

As someone else said upthread, the mother in law basically said the same thing to Alison saying if they have another baby she should live there so she can get "help" with the hanging assumption that whatever happened with their son could have been prevented.  I am assuming the season will flesh out how her son died and I am anxiously awaiting that info.

 

I know but he didn't look as hot at least to me. If he were in the gray shirt with the unkempt hair and riding on the horse... I can't finish this sentence with a rational thought.  

 

I never find Joshua Jackson unattractive.  It's a problem...that I feel no need to find a solution to.  Hummina.  Me likey.  

[Neurochick]

Things I noticed so far:

 

In Noah's versions Allison's hair is always loose, it was loose when they met in the diner (his version), loose when he purchased the jam and loose at his father in law's party.  In Allison's version her hair is always pulled back.  Noah always sees Allison as a temptress, like when he saw her on the beach that first night, in his version, she wore a short dress, in her version she wore shorts.  In his version, Allison looked hot in the black dress, serving at the party; in her version she looked awkward.  

 

To me, Noah himself always looks better in his version of the story than in Allison's.  

[taragel]

In other news, that the great Mare Winningham is playing Pacey's mother upsets me. It means I am old enough to be the mother of grownups, and I don't get how that can be true. Something must have warped the time-space continuum. Right? RIGHT?!?!

 

     Related, I find it surprising that Pacey is the OLDEST of the four Lockhart boys. I just googled and in reality, Joshua Jackson's 36, the second oldest after Michael Godere (Caleb) who's 38, but it still surprises me somehow! Colin O'Donnell (Scotty) is 32 and Danny Fischer (Hal) is 30, FYI. I think both Colin and Michael look older than him though.

Edited October 22, 2014 by taragel

[Neurochick]

Well Mare Winningham is 55, so if she's playing 55 she could have been a teenage mother.  

[JudyObscure]

Allison has mentioned her anger toward her husband so many times, I was guessing that she blamed him for Gabriel's death.  Maybe he was watching the child while Allison was at work, but her mother-in-law thinks if she had been on the spot it wouldn't have happened?

[bosawks]

My perception of the different Alison's is that Noah "remembers" her through the filter of who she is now or, interrogation Alison, and Alison "remembers" through the filter of grief of past Alison.

Of course this theory only works if there is still an involvement.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

People remember things differently epecially over a period of time. Did the woman seduce you or did you seduce her or was it sinething in between? I think it is and interesting study on how two people see and remember the same moment. Which one is true? Maybe both... Maybe neither.

[Pallas]

My guess is that Gabriel died in the Sound, perhaps playing "surfing" with his father or alone with his mother.  On Gabriel's birthday, when Cole is leaving to go surf, Alison hurries after him to ask him to be careful; he replies, carefully, "Always."   And Cole most likely left the surfboard charm on Gabriel's headstone.  

[Constantinople]

Also--I think it's interesting that future Noah is dressed super schlumpy in jeans and a hoodie and future Allison is more sophisticate and upscale. It certainly seems to be hinting at some sort of class reversal for the two as well.

 

It's possible, but it's also possible that their clothing differences reflect the current social status.  Allison dresses up to offset her lower social status; it's notable that the other person dressed-up is the police officer (or investigator).  A man in a powerful position, but nevertheless, an employee.  Noah, as the son-in-law of a local bigwig, can take things for granted because his position is more secure, and thus dresses more plainly (although I'm not how secure his position will be if his wife finds out what happened).

[Boundary]

I think Noah's clothing shows that his second book has been successful and he's quit his teaching job. Or that they nabbed him just after his morning swim.

 

People remember things differently epecially over a period of time. Did the woman seduce you or did you seduce her or was it sinething in between? I think it is and interesting study on how two people see and remember the same moment. Which one is true? Maybe both... Maybe neither.

 

 

The truth is always somewhere in between because when people interact they come at it from different directions. With this show, I'll take the really personal or the common incidents  as facts, then use that to interpret stuff around. For instance, last episode occurred around Alison's dead son's birthday, so would she really be wearing a skimpy dress seducing another man? Or maybe her emotional state makes her do things she wouldn't have considered before? In this this episode, we know they avoided each other before ending up kissing after all that effort; we know it because their POVs coincided on this point. But splitting hairs like this will get harder as their capacity to lie (as necessitated by the affair) is revealed.

 

Has anyone suggested that the dead guy could be the father-in-law? It was his party that night, and from the police's point of view, Noah or his kids stand to (indirectly) inherit the fortune. I can't find a compelling reason for connecting the dots to Alison though.

[iMonrey]

I've never seen Ruth Wilson in anything else before this, and I've been struggling to think of who she reminds me of. It suddenly occurred to me, she looks like a young Swoosie Kurtz.

 

And now I can't un-see it.

[taragel]

She looks like Katie Holmes crossed with Taryn Manning to me. 

[bunnywithanaxe]

Boundary, I had wondered if douchey dad- in- law was the victim, too.

[Milburn Stone]

If douchey-dad-in-law is the victim, the list of those with motives expands exponentially.

[escatefromny]

I've never seen Ruth Wilson in anything else before this, and I've been struggling to think of who she reminds me of. It suddenly occurred to me, she looks like a young Swoosie Kurtz.

 

And now I can't un-see it.

 

She looks like Katie Holmes crossed with Taryn Manning to me. 

 

 

Jennifer Jason Lee?

 

For me, Ruth Wilson is doing a wonderful acting job.  The changes she mangaes to inhabit for each side of the story are really driving the mystery.  I agree though, that I don't sense an awful lot of chemistry between Allison and Noah.

[StatMom]

But in Noah's version he's a cowboy. On a horse. With a hat.

He was the cowboyest cowboy that ever cowboyed. Complete with the hat tipping and ma'amming. And what's with the southern accent? Wasn't he (the character) raised on Long Island?

 

Makes me wonder how much is Noah's memory and how much is "reality."  <-- I may get tired of wondering that after a few more episodes.

[jeansheridan]

This is a great showcase for Ruth Wison. She is so cheerfully eeeeevil on Luther it is nice to see her switch gears. She is still smart. Wilson can't play dumb any more than Maura can play mean. I had a hard time believing she would be so overtly bright about a bra strap. But that is such an interestingly specific detail. Lies should be simple. That was detailed and felt true.

[CofCinci]

I find it so remarkable how they not only makeup and costume each character differently in his version and her version, but the actors and actresses are playing the characters with subtle (or not so subtle) changes.