S05.E01: No Sanctuary

[JackONeill]

No one has a perfect, cookie-cutter personality.  We weeble, we wooble.  We may think we're decisive and strong, and maybe we are, but then something like a herd of Walkers come along to dissuade us of what we thought.  There's no telling what any of us would do in a situation that our team find themselves in.

 

I read a book a long time ago that was written by some high-ranking military guy.  I don't remember the guy's name nor do I remember much of the book.  What I do remember is him talking about boot camp.  He said he could often tell who was going to wash out.  He said the brawny, big-mouthed types would often wash out.  But the quiet guys -- those were the ones you had to watch.  They could turn into killing-machines.

[Constantinople]

My husband, who spent some time traveling with carnivals as a teen and later hitchhiking around the continent, assures me that you do reach a point if you go without showering long enough that the body odor sort of evens out and you don't really notice it anymore.  Especially if everyone around you is at or near the same level of unkemptness.  I'll take his word for it because I rather enjoy bathing regularly, which he tells me is just one of many reasons I'd never survive longterm in the zombie apocalypse.

 

I totally believe this.

 

If it weren't true, Europe would have been completely depopulated during the Middle Ages.

[mightysparrow]

 

I agree. I think some criticism may stem from the sense of...unfairness (?) in his stance. I don't mean to suggest that he sits on his ass and doesn't contribute but there is something that kind of bothered me about a survivor not wanting to kill the walkers who threatened their group.

 

But the thing about Tyreese, especiallly in the beginning was that he was so eager to contribute.  He made a point of saying that he wanted to pull his own weight.  Now, in the ZA, killing zombies is a huge part of the daily routine, but Ty never shirked from helping out.  I loved that about him.  I miss that Tyreese so much.  He seems so broken now and I can't help but hold Carol responsible for a lot of it.  She murdered Karen and David without giving a thought to their lives and loved ones.  It's absurd to say that she did it to protect 'her family' since they were in quarantine, a lot of a prison crew had already been exposed, she wasn't a doctor and she wasn't GOD.

 

I got the feeling that 5.1 was about Carol's redemption but I don't think she's really had to answer for her crimes yet.  She has never said she was sorry for what she did probably because I don't think she is.  She stood by and let Rick beat Ty like a dog and never said a word.  I can't believe that's all going to be swept under the rug and forgotten.  Even her beloved Pookie told Ty that he would put a bolt in whoever the murderer was.  Has he forgotten that?

[SoSueMe]

I am confused by the 'red shirt' reference, can someone explain please? Thanks in advance 

[HalcyonDays]

I am confused by the 'red shirt' reference, can someone explain please? Thanks in advance 

 

It's a reference to the original Star Trek TV series from the 60's. Whenever a crew member would be killed off (never the main characters), the uniform colour they sported was always a red shirt. Synonymous with: unimportant character not of the main/supporting cast that no one remembers, becoming the sacrificial lamb.

[NoWillToResist]

 

But the thing about Tyreese, especiallly in the beginning was that he was so eager to contribute.  He made a point of saying that he wanted to pull his own weight.  Now, in the ZA, killing zombies is a huge part of the daily routine, but Ty never shirked from helping out.  I loved that about him

 

As I said, I wasn't implying that he was a lazy free-loader. Funnily enough, I find his current distancing similar to early Carol. He's kind of quiet and...timid? as she was in the beginning. Neither liked violence and neither could (or would) do the heavy lifting, if you will. But they each pitched in in their own ways. Carol expanded her knowledge and skills base so maybe Tyreese will do the same.

 

I think forgoing the killing of walkers is a luxury that one cannot afford in the ZA...

 

 

He seems so broken now and I can't help but hold Carol responsible for a lot of it.

 

The murder of Karen certainly didn't help matters but I think, knowing now that it wasn't some malevolent person in their group just murdering people for kicks (which the dead rats and such were certainly implying), that may help. Being reunited with his sister should also help heal him, IMO. I think he, like Daryl, hit rock bottom after the Governor business. He'd just lost his sister, their home, his friends, his gf was just murdered prior to that, and then he's on the run in a walker-infested forest, charged with protecting two kids and a baby. No wondre he was so happy to see Carol! :)

 

His reunion with Sasha was so sweet. She's this tiny twiggy thing and he's this massive bear. He could probably literally crush her to death with his tree trunk arms. :D

Edited October 15, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[editorgrrl]

I saw this online a bit ago. I wonder if it was a tribute/Easter egg.

http://www.twdenthusiasts.com/2014/10/was-zombie-andrea-featured-on-no-sanctuary/

The possible Andrea easter egg upthread?  I'd laugh if it was.  Even with Michonne sitting right there to help her she still couldn't shoot straight. 

 

For those who didn't click through, the link suggests the zombie wearing a handcuff on one wrist is a sly reference to Andrea:

 

And then the repeated  halted half-swings as Gareth interrupted at the moment of Glen's doom. I actually thought this was meant as a bit of comic relief, it was so silly. 

 

In an Entertainment Weekly interview, Greg Nicotero said

When Scott Gimple pitched the episode we had a long conversation and I said, “Listen we have a great opportunity to put a little red herring in here because

Glenn’s character is killed with a baseball bat

in the graphic novel.” So we set that up specifically to tease to the audience that

Glenn might go

. And so that is a perfect example of Scott and I taking something and just continually ramping it up.

[JackONeill]

They're just like two kids in a candy store, that Gimple and Nicotero.

[ghoulina]

One of my problems is that in order for Carol to look good, how many characters have to be erased?  Michonne, Maggie, Sasha were reduced to Beth-levels of invisibility so Carol coud be Queen of the Badasses.  If the character is strong enough, she should be able to stand up WITH the other characters not instead of them.  And did Tyreese need to be emasculated for Carol's sake?  A man like Tyreese, who's apparenty soooooooooo dangerous that Carol had to be banished for her own protection, is reduced to carrying an infant and shrinking from the thought of violence.  Bullshit.

 

It's just one episode, though. I don't see how can we watch the premiere and automatically think Carol is the new boss bitch in town, and Michonne, Maggie, and Sasha will be reduced in any capacity. Carol was a badass because she was the one in a position to be. They were all locked up in a train car, and she was the one who was outside the gates, armed, and able to free them. Or die trying. Story wise, it made sense for some of the group to not be captured and come to the rescue. And it also made sense, to me, for it to be Carol - they needed Carol to hang back to have the story with the girls. Now she's in a group with Judith, and Judith going into Terminus would NOT have ended well. Thus, that trio is the one that remains outside. 

 

And she really isn't responsible for the entire way things went down. She caused the explosion that brought the gates down and let flaming walkers into Terminus. And she killed a few of their people, including side-braid Mary (side braids mean you die, DUH!). But she didn't just burst in, kill every Termite, free the rest of CDB, and lead them to safety. Rick and co. were responsible for a lot of their own escape. Rick took advantage of the confusion and killed those two butchers with his wooden shank. He waited until the machine gun brigade had gone past, in order to take the guy in the rear unawares, get his weapon, and mow the rest down. Then they let the rest out of the box car and they ALL slashed and dashed their way out of there. 

 

Carol light the fire, but the rest of them definitely helped fan the flames. 

 

And I don't think she emasculated Tyrese in any way. Tyrese has always been a bit of a gentle giant. I, personally, don't think it's because he's weak. Quite the opposite. I think it's because he knows his own power, strength, and anger and is cautious about letting that all out. I kind of love the role reversal with those two, and their time on the road together - the woman is the harder one, and the man is the softer one. Tyrese took great care of those kids, and I think he's a badass in his own right. 

 

Actually, considering that Michonne is probably the lead female character, there's been very little focus on her.  We know next to nothing about her past life and she's never had a story line that was devoted solely to her.  Michonne has been about everybody and everything BUT Michonne.  Whereas we've had almost four seasons of 'Poor Carol' the perpetual victim.

 

I feel like we know just as much about Michonne as we do Carol. Or Maggie. Michonne had a significant other, they appeared to live a very nice life. She had a son. He was killed. She killed her high boyfriend and his friend and made them her pets. Carol was an abused wife with a daughter, that's about all we know from her past. And Maggie - she was Hershel's slightly rebellious daughter. I don't jack shit about Sasha, except she's Tyrese's sister. It would obviously make more sense to know more about Carol at this point, considering this is her 5th full season of the show, and Michonne has only been on for 2 prior to this one. 

 

I definitely think Michonne had a storyline devoted to her when we found out about her backstory in "After", and she was out on her own. We got a lot more of that in "Claimed", when she confided in Carl. I feel like we saw a whole lot more of Michonne in season 3 than we did Carol (she was missing for several episodes). I haven't seen Carol as victim since season 2, and there's definitely been plenty of HER scenes that have been about other people and not herself (the whole conflict with Daryl and Merle, for example). 

[editorgrrl]

They're just like two kids in a candy store, that Gimple and Nicotero.

 

I haven't read the comics, but even I knew it had to be an in-joke. Like the very first view of Abraham, Eugene & Rosita.

 

[kikismom]

Actually, considering that Michonne is probably the lead female character, there's been very little focus on her.  We know next to nothing about her past life and she's never had a story line that was devoted solely to her.  Michonne has been about everybody and everything BUT Michonne.  Whereas we've had almost four seasons of 'Poor Carol' the perpetual victim.  I'm grateful that 'pooooooooor Carol' has apparently left the building though it's probably only a matter of time before poor Sophia's corpse is dragged out again (probably holding hands with Lizzie and Micah's corpses).

 

 

Which -for better or for worse - was a decision by the writers about how to unfold the character of Michonne, keeping her backstory sealed off for long, just like her personality. Absent any evidence of calculus by the writers to take time from Michonne's story and give it to Carol, I can't see laying the underdevelopment of Michonne at Carol's feet.

And I hardly thought Tyrese seemed emasculated as he was pounding RomanCandle's head into the cabin floor.

 

 

It's just one episode, though. I don't see how can we watch the premiere and automatically think Carol is the new boss bitch in town, and Michonne, Maggie, and Sasha will be reduced in any capacity. Carol was a badass because she was the one in a position to be. They were all locked up in a train car, and she was the one who was outside the gates, armed, and able to free them. Or die trying. Story wise, it made sense for some of the group to not be captured and come to the rescue. And it also made sense, to me, for it to be Carol - they needed Carol to hang back to have the story with the girls. Now she's in a group with Judith, and Judith going into Terminus would NOT have ended well. Thus, that trio is the one that remains outside. 

 

And she really isn't responsible for the entire way things went down. She caused the explosion that brought the gates down and let flaming walkers into Terminus. And she killed a few of their people, including side-braid Mary (side braids mean you die, DUH!). But she didn't just burst in, kill every Termite, free the rest of CDB, and lead them to safety. Rick and co. were responsible for a lot of their own escape. Rick took advantage of the confusion and killed those two butchers with his wooden shank. He waited until the machine gun brigade had gone past, in order to take the guy in the rear unawares, get his weapon, and mow the rest down. Then they let the rest out of the box car and they ALL slashed and dashed their way out of there. 

 

Carol light the fire, but the rest of them definitely helped fan the flames. 

 

And I don't think she emasculated Tyrese in any way. Tyrese has always been a bit of a gentle giant. I, personally, don't think it's because he's weak. Quite the opposite. I think it's because he knows his own power, strength, and anger and is cautious about letting that all out. I kind of love the role reversal with those two, and their time on the road together - the woman is the harder one, and the man is the softer one. Tyrese took great care of those kids, and I think he's a badass in his own right. 

 

 

 

 

I feel like we know just as much about Michonne as we do Carol. Or Maggie. Michonne had a significant other, they appeared to live a very nice life. She had a son. He was killed. She killed her high boyfriend and his friend and made them her pets. Carol was an abused wife with a daughter, that's about all we know from her past. And Maggie - she was Hershel's slightly rebellious daughter. I don't jack shit about Sasha, except she's Tyrese's sister. It would obviously make more sense to know more about Carol at this point, considering this is her 5th full season of the show, and Michonne has only been on for 2 prior to this one. 

 

I definitely think Michonne had a storyline devoted to her when we found out about her backstory in "After", and she was out on her own. We got a lot more of that in "Claimed", when she confided in Carl. I feel like we saw a whole lot more of Michonne in season 3 than we did Carol (she was missing for several episodes). I haven't seen Carol as victim since season 2, and there's definitely been plenty of HER scenes that have been about other people and not herself (the whole conflict with Daryl and Merle, for example). 

If you are interested in what Danae thinks about Michonne's backstory , read this:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/04/danai-gurira-who-plays-michonne-says-the-walking-dead-isn-t-racist.html

[gaPeach]

She has never said she was sorry for what she did probably because I don't think she is.  She stood by and let Rick beat Ty like a dog and never said a word.  I can't believe that's all going to be swept under the rug and forgotten.  Even her beloved Pookie told Ty that he would put a bolt in whoever the murderer was.  Has he forgotten that?

 

I said earlier that I thought it was a stretch how Carol killed them but I understand her thought process of why she killed them.  I think the writers had to do it that way so it was bad enough for Rick to put her out on her own.  And yes I do believe Daryl will let it go.  I think at the time they thought someone was messing with them.  Carol did it to save others from getting sick.  So yeah I think will forget it and move on.

 

It is so hard to work when I get emails with pictures of NR getting off his motorcycle at one of the local shops/diners.  I have an office close to where they film and he is around town a lot so I get a lot of pictures that co-workers take with their phones.  I need to move.

[kikismom]

 

It is so hard to work when I get emails with pictures of NR getting off his motorcycle at one of the local shops/diners.  I have an office close to where they film and he is around town a lot so I get a lot of pictures that co-workers take with their phones.  I need to move.

You need to move? Yes, you need to move out of the office and down to the diner. You can always get another job, but there's only one NR.

[RedheadZombie]

Regarding Carol easily recognizing Rick's watch.  Since it was Carol's watch that she gave to Rick, it made perfect sense to me.

 I don't read the comics, but have picked up info here and there.  The show has baited comic fans many times:

Agreed on why they did a fake out on Glenn being hit by the baseball bat.

1. The finale of season two - the mysterious figure wielding a katana.
2. The posing of the Three Stooges with the mullet, bozo red hair, and booty shorts.
3. A restrained Glenn with a bat yielding man behind him.

 

I've been pondering the significance (if any) of all eight people at the trough being men.  I'm sure survivors are disproportionately male due to strength alone.  But were they implying that the women and children aren't eaten, just killed?

Edited October 17, 2014 by HalcyonDays
added spoiler tags

[ghoulina]

Regarding Carol easily recognizing Rick's watch.  Since it was Carol's watch that she gave to Rick, it made perfect sense to me.

 

Well now, there were two watches. One was Rick's that he gave Fruit Hippy Sam. The other was Carol's, that Ed gave her, which she gladly gave Rick to replace the one he gave Sam. I didn't catch which watch it was that she picked up, but considering Sam was there, it could have been either.

[mandolin]

I'm pretty sure she picked up Rick's watch that he gave Sam. It was a metal band, and I think hers was a leather band.

[Brooke0707]

I think I am forgetting something from last season - what made Tyrese have...performance issues...when it comes to killing?

[kikismom]

Well now, there were two watches. One was Rick's that he gave Fruit Hippy Sam. The other was Carol's, that Ed gave her, which she gladly gave Rick to replace the one he gave Sam. I didn't catch which watch it was that she picked up, but considering Sam was there, it could have been either.

Ohoh! Buzz! Carol gave her broken watch to Rick!

 

Remember, she said Ed gave it to her on their first anniversary, and she should have given it away a long time ago.

About Rick's, she said "It was a nice watch."

That's why it's a little bit more significant.

Edited October 15, 2014 by kikismom

[Brooke0707]

Re other characters being erased so that Carol could be badass...I can see where that perspective comes from.  I thought that the episode was wonderful and I was on the edge of my seat the entire time, but the amount of things that had to go exactly right for Carol to save the day in multiple ways was a little borderline Mary Sueish.  I mean I know that typically a Mary Sue isn't a killer, but in the zombie apocalypse world, I think that trait (when used toward killing bad guys) can be seen as being too perfect as wrong as that sounds.  But, I don't think the writers went over the edge and it was just borderline - I wasn't rolling my eyes or anything with what Carol was doing.  I also think, despite what SG said about Carol not needing to do this for the group to forgive her, that this was to counteract what she did to Karen and David - if not for the group, then for the audience members who didn't like it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Brooke0707

[RedheadZombie]

Well now, there were two watches. One was Rick's that he gave Fruit Hippy Sam. The other was Carol's, that Ed gave her, which she gladly gave Rick to replace the one he gave Sam. I didn't catch which watch it was that she picked up, but considering Sam was there, it could have been either.

 

I completely forgot about that.  It's more meaningful to me if it was Carol's watch.

I am a bit tired of hearing how Tyreese needs to 'grow a pair'.  While people were running for their lives, he took the time to grab a baby and herd two little girls to safety.  Tyreese doesn't have to prove shit to anyone.  I think Tyreese's reluctance to kill is being blown out of proportion.  He probably should have killed the gum-chewer right away but Tyreese obviously doesn't feel right about killing a helpess person.  That's Carol's job.  And when it came down to it and gum-chewer threatened Judith, Tyreese took care of him with a quickness.  So Tyreese's balls are fine and just where they need to be.

 

Responding in Tyreese's thread.

[Ocean Chick]

The watch that Carol picked up from the table was Rick's watch, which he gave to fruit ninja Sam.  Her old watch that Ed gave her was next to it.  So she knew that both Sam and Rick were at Terminus at some point.  Well, besides the fact that she saw Rick there.  But the watch that she picked up was definitely a man's watch with a metal band, not her old watch with the broken leather band, which was much smaller.  And Carol wants nothing to do with the watch that Ed gave her anymore, I'm sure.

 

I didn't see Michonne's katana on the weapons table, though we only were given a quick glance.  Maybe Gareth took that already for his own?  And Michonne will get it back after Rick kills Gareth with that machete with the red handle?  Could happen.

[melanie]

The fact that Carol was the only one to be extremely cautious about Terminus is something that I would like some insight on.  Rick, Michonne, and Co. were slightly cautious by burying the weapons, but I could not believe that all 4 of them just went in there like they did.  She is not afraid to be alone any more.  She admitted to Rick that was the reason she stayed with her abusive husband -- because she didn't want to be alone.  She had to face that when Rick banished her and learned that she could survive.  The others just rushed in believing what they wanted to believe and not realizing that it was indeed too good to be true.  

I am just glad Tyreese did not have to see Terminus and the brutality.  With everything that he has been through, that may have been too much for him.  

[NoWillToResist]

 

But were they implying that the women and children aren't eaten, just killed?

 

Well, perhaps the Termites believed that the menfolk would be harder to control, so they wanted them out of the picture; remove the leadership and the others will fall in line.

 

And/or maybe women are kept for future rapey times or bartering, and kids are later assimilated or released into the wild to die?

 

 

The fact that Carol was the only one to be extremely cautious about Terminus is something that I would like some insight on.  Rick, Michonne, and Co. were slightly cautious by burying the weapons, but I could not believe that all 4 of them just went in there like they did.  She is not afraid to be alone any more.

 

It could also be that, because she spent time having to look out for herself, she learned the value of caution; she would have to take the time to investigate any place from all sides because, as a sole woman, it would be easy for her to be picked off. There can be a false security in having people with you...

Edited October 15, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Seawolff]

The fact that Carol was the only one to be extremely cautious about Terminus is something that I would like some insight on. Rick, Michonne, and Co. were slightly cautious by burying the weapons, but I could not believe that all 4 of them just went in there like they did. She is not afraid to be alone any more. She admitted to Rick that was the reason she stayed with her abusive husband -- because she didn't want to be alone. She had to face that when Rick banished her and learned that she could survive. The others just rushed in believing what they wanted to believe and not realizing that it was indeed too good to be true.

I am just glad Tyreese did not have to see Terminus and the brutality. With everything that he has been through, that may have been too much for him.

Carol is the only one of the prison group who watched the governor approach and attack the prison.

Carol had obviously traveled back to the prison to reconnect, but was the only one who was already on the road, not running for her life. She may have seen, from a point of safety, each person who escaped. She's already been banished, been alone, decided to go back and had succeeded in returning to her destination. Carol isn't even planning on staying at the prison once she helps Tyrese get there! (Maybe because she realizes Tyrese can't live with her?)The refugees of the prison, on the other hand, are desperate, nearly broken victims hoping to find others and find safety.

She and Tyrese,hear some type of conflict going down at her next destination, Terminus. Hmmm hasn't she seen something like this before? So Carol is probably more prepared for how cautious to be. Now let's consider this: although it was done for different reasons, what she did to Terminus is very similar to what she witnessed the governor do to the prison on two occasions.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Seawolff

[Brooke0707]

My impression was that Carol wasn't necessarily being cautious about Terminus as much as she was going to let Tyrese and Judith have it because she knew Tyrese didn't trust her.  The distrust came pretty immediately after they saw that guy referring to killing Michonne and Carl.

[HalcyonDays]

Well, perhaps the Termites believed that the menfolk would be harder to control, so they wanted them out of the picture; remove the leadership and the others will fall in line.

 

Well, technically the men would have a higher percentage of muscle mass than the woman. You'd get a better yield of steaks and such...(god, I belong in Terminus)

 

That, and like you said, keeps the potential threat of retaliating men at bay.

 

And I still think Gareth will turn up with Michonne's katana. It's a character unto itself (like Carl's hat).

[AngelaHunter]

Well, perhaps the Termites believed that the menfolk would be harder to control

 

I can understand them taking out Rick first, since they know he's the "ringleader", but you'd think they'd butcher Eugene and Abraham with him, since they certainly have the most meat on them, while Daryl, etc. are pretty lean and stringy.

[GreyBunny]

Well, technically the men would have a higher percentage of muscle mass than the woman. You'd get a better yield of steaks and such.

In scarcity situations men are more likely to die first since men metabolize protein faster and women require less caloric intake and store more fat.  Between that and their strength, better to knock the men out first. 

 

However, fat is one of the best food sources (you can live without meat but you can't survive long-term without fat.  In cannibalism, fat is the make-or-break tissue) so you'll want to kill and butcher that plump person quickly before they lose too much weight.  Risk of Kuru/Creutzfeld-Jakob disease aside, the brain is an excellent source of fat and calories, but considering that they have to destroy the brain to prevent zombification, that might be a moot point. 

Since they were eating people, I hope they had the sense to use the bone marrow.  A femur full of marrow can make a satisfying meal.

 

They'd kill the children too (Martin said as much).  I wouldn't trust kids to assimilate into the group and if they're left to die in the wild, they could run and tell others what's really going on.  Nope, gotta do away with them too and no sense in wasting a food source, even if it's just an appetizer.

 

 

(god, I belong in Terminus)

 

Save me some bunk space and a few of those candles.

Edited October 16, 2014 by GreyBunny

[nodorothyparker]

Thank you, Walking Dead, for making me seriously contemplate the logic and methodology of cannibalism.  Because I clearly needed to do so.

[HalcyonDays]

GreyBunny, you're the greatest. I love that your post is a perfectly logical, well written analysis of the scientific realities of maximizing nutritional value through cannibalism in an end of the world zombie survival scenario. They did waste the blood though - could've been used to make a nice blood sausage. Waste no, want not.

 

Save me some bunk space and a few of those candles.

 

*shoves over to make room*   ..........This is what happens when one watches too much Walking Dead.

[ladyrott]

One of the reason I adore these boards is they give such insight.  It never even occurred to me before that old mullet head was lying about the cure.  Now, I am REALLY suspicious and, on thinking back to all we have seen, I think he is full of crap about "knowing" the cure.  There is a possibility that he IS the cure (ala Z Nation...how weird would it be if WD ended up ripping off that show when all they do is rip off WD) but I definitely think his posse either believes he has the knowledge to fix things or they know the truth that getting him to Washington alive will fix things.  One way or another, I believe they are sincere.

 

I don't do spoilers but I feel confident that we will see Gareth again.  Rick's line about killing him with the red handled machete was so anvilicious my whole house shook.  I just hope the katana shows up with him.   

 

I did want to add, while the Termites story of rape and terror didn't make me feel any sympathy for them, I was glad the writers included it because it DID explain that damn candle room and it's "Never Again" writing on the wall, which I have been wondering about all summer.

Edited October 16, 2014 by ladyrott

[Raven1707]

Just a thought about the way the men were lined up at the trough...the guy with the bat was swinging right-handed, and he had a much better angle and more open "field of play" starting from the redshirt end. Better follow-through, too.

[Irishmaple]

I'm fairly convinced Eugene is full of crap, without any evidence at all.  But I believe Abraham is so desperate for something to believe in that he's not asking Eugene the hard (or even the basic) questions.  He needs a mission and Eugene is it.  If Eugene is lying or deluding himself, I don't think anyone will be more devastated than Abraham.  Getting Eugene to Washington seems to be his reason for going on.  I'm not sure why Rosita is on board but maybe she saw Abraham without a mission and it wasn't pretty.

[Raven1707]

Oh, and as for the science...unless one of the survivors is a microbiologist or a biochemist, I can't imagine them having any success trying to follow written instructions, whether provided by Eugene (if he actually knows and isn't blowing smoke) or some other source.

[lulee]

I'm fairly convinced Eugene is full of crap, without any evidence at all.  But I believe Abraham is so desperate for something to believe in that he's not asking Eugene the hard (or even the basic) questions.  He needs a mission and Eugene is it.  If Eugene is lying or deluding himself, I don't think anyone will be more devastated than Abraham.  Getting Eugene to Washington seems to be his reason for going on.  I'm not sure why Rosita is on board but maybe she saw Abraham without a mission and it wasn't pretty.

I am unspoiled but highly skeptical of Eugene, especially after that claptrap he was spouting in this episode. Frauds are often aided by well-intentioned people who want to believe what they're saying, for various reasons - who fail or choose not to ask questions or ignore evidence that would make them doubt someone's story..  Google "Clark Rockefeller" and look for the book or interviews with author Walter Kirn.

 

I will be shocked if Eugene really holds some kind of key. More likely, I'm betting, is that he stumbled into a half-truth that spiraled into much bigger untruths.

[natyxg]

Well, I want to believe that Eugene is telling the truth because it tickles me to think that someone like him could hold the key to fixing everything. He could very well be full of shit, he could be just lying through his teeth so he could have a group of people hanging around to save his ass. But I think it is just as likely that he is telling the truth. If he is really some scientist, what is he going to do, give them some complicated science explanation that they won't understand anyway? What he did say about using chemical warfare against the walkers, to create some virus that could kill them instead, made sense to me. And it would definitely change everything. Imagine arriving at a city and spraying some airborne chemical that is harmless to humans, but would make all the walkers just drop dead.

 

The show is all about there being no way out, about how they are never safe, so Eugene is probably lying, there is no cure and they will be disappointed yet again. But I want to still hold on to the hope that the show will surprise me.

[GreyBunny]

GreyBunny, you're the greatest. I love that your post is a perfectly logical, well written analysis of the scientific realities of maximizing nutritional value through cannibalism in an end of the world zombie survival scenario. They did waste the blood though - could've been used to make a nice blood sausage. Waste no, want not.

 

*shoves over to make room*

 

Thanks!  Glad I could help.  *curtseys* 

Ah, yes!  Blood!  For example, some tribes drink cow's blood raw.  If you're going to be a vampire, though, be careful for tapeworm and malaria.  It's a shame the Termites didn't use the blood but the producers probably wanted Glenn and the other Tributes (and us) watch it go down the drain for dramatic value.

 

 

   This is what happens when one watches too much Walking Dead.

 

 

Heh!  I remember hearing about the rugby team lost in the Andes when I was little, then later Jamestown, and the Donner Party.  Between all that, a lifetime of marinating myself in the horror genre, and a scientific curiosity of the subject, I was a lost cause a long time ago.

*climbs into bunk*

I know a great recipe for heart tartare in barquette shells...

Edited October 16, 2014 by GreyBunny

[kikismom]

Well, technically the men would have a higher percentage of muscle mass than the woman. You'd get a better yield of steaks and such...(god, I belong in Terminus)

 

 

I hate to point this out (not really) but when you slaughter male animals, you have to remove the testes right away. Otherwise the meat will have a funny taste. Not "ha-ha" funny either.

 

 

 They did waste the blood though - could've been used to make a nice blood sausage. Waste no, want not.

 

Blood is also useful when making concrete; it will make it waterproof without sealer. The ancient Romans discovered this first, although how that happened I can't imagine unless they were trying it for the color effect. You'd need a lot though.

[AngelaHunter]

I'm fairly convinced Eugene is full of crap, without any evidence at all.

 

I'm sure of it, especially after his silly babble-speak in the boxcar. If it's true, why hasn't he explained it properly to anyone? I think he's not as dumb as he looks and knows if he proclaims to be the only person who has the answer, he can get other people to actively protect him.

 

We've seen that, without that protection, he'd probably last no longer in the world than it would take for him to meet his first zombie or marauder.

 

That cartoonish trio really takes an edge of enjoyment of the show away from me. Abraham? After all everyone has endured, still has the gel holding his perfectly coiffed hair in placed? Rosita is like some teenage boy's fantasy and I really get irritated just looking at Eugene, never mind listening to him. Some comic book characters needed adjustment to make them seem real before adding them to live action.

[kikismom]

 But I think it is just as likely that he is telling the truth. If he is really some scientist, what is he going to do, give them some complicated science explanation that they won't understand anyway? What he did say about using chemical warfare against the walkers, to create some virus that could kill them instead, made sense to me. And it would definitely change everything. Imagine arriving at a city and spraying some airborne chemical that is harmless to humans, but would make all the walkers just drop dead.

But Eugene said he was working on the Human Genome Project. All that is involved is mapping chromosomes of populations, nothing at all to do with pathogens created to fight pathogens, fighting fire with fire. I think Eugene knows enough to throw out phrases really fast and baffle them with bullshit. I also think everybody at the CDC would have known if it was even possible to come up with a biological, chemical, pharmaceutical or witchcraft cure. And their judgment of the possibility was that you should kill yourself now.

[Crone]

Eugene may have the answer (although I seriously doubt it) but I'm concerned about the implementation of his plan. If it's a pill or an injection or some sort of fogger-thingy (technical term!), how in the world are they going to make and distribute this item? I work in pharmaceutical manufacturing and it's pretty complicated, besides, who's left to actually make the "stuff"? Does Eugene seem like someone who can pull this off? Not hardly.

[natyxg]

But Eugene said he was working on the Human Genome Project. All that is involved is mapping chromosomes of populations, nothing at all to do with pathogens created to fight pathogens, fighting fire with fire. I think Eugene knows enough to throw out phrases really fast and baffle them with bullshit. I also think everybody at the CDC would have known if it was even possible to come up with a biological, chemical, pharmaceutical or witchcraft cure. And their judgment of the possibility was that you should kill yourself now.

 

Well, darn. I didn't catch that. You guys are probably right, but I still want to belieeeveeee.

[wmdekooning]

 Carol may have been weak and sneaky at times, but she was never dumb.  She used her brains to get them out and it held to character I think.

Second season, episode one, Carol pulls out the grenade she found in the wash and gives it to Rick who uses it to blow the window of the CDC facility...

[kikismom]

Second season, episode one, Carol pulls out the grenade she found in the wash and gives it to Rick who uses it to blow the window of the CDC facility...

Is that a grenade in your pants or do you just want to get out of here?

[GreyBunny]

But Eugene said he was working on the Human Genome Project. All that is involved is mapping chromosomes of populations, nothing at all to do with pathogens created to fight pathogens, fighting fire with fire.

 

This.

 

An ex-boyfriend of mine actually did work on the Human Genome Project.  He and his work buddies didn't weaponize anything except Nerf darts during break time.

Edited October 16, 2014 by GreyBunny

[TexasChic]

Re: Mary saying to Carol, "We took it back, and we're still here" and Carol saying "You're not here, neither am I". I think she was saying Mary was no longer the same person, and didn't survive like she thought she had. She survived physically, but at the sacrifice of her humanity. I think Carol was saying the same thing applied to herself.

Also, I kind of hope the terminite in the cabin with Tyreese survived, because I kind of got a weird sort of crush on him.

[Turtle]

A femur full of marrow can make a satisfying meal.​

 

 

So true!  Terminus had such a seemingly ordered process that I'm assuming they were using the marrow.  But if not?  Dummies.  And I'm really enjoying this conversation, macabre as it may be.  

 

I definitely think Eugene is lying about the cure to get protection because he knows he couldn't survive otherwise, and I think Abraham is willfully unquestioning about Eugene's story because he needs a mission.  The cure story helps them both, and so they're sticking with it.  Abraham and Rosita shared some weird looks when the others were questioning Eugene about the cure, which makes me think they know something is up, even if they're not willing to admit it.  Or, possibly, they know he does in fact have the cure but there's something wonky with it.  But I suspect the former.  Also, we didn't see the beginning of the walkers, but there must have been a time when they were popping up but communication and transportation systems were still functioning, not to mention the military, at least on some level; wouldn't anyone who had the cure have said so at that point?  And wouldn't anyone who was suspected to have the cure have been rounded up?  I just can't imagine that the entire country (world?) went from totally functioning to 100% zombieland overnight.  Ebola is no walker virus, but look at what the media has been doing with that - surely anyone with an idea of how to cure Ebola would pop up and say so.  So, Eugene is full of it, in my book.

 

ETA: 

Also, I kind of hope the terminite in the cabin with Tyreese survived, because I kind of got a weird sort of crush on him.

 

 

TexasChic, thank you for saying what I was too afraid to say!

Edited October 16, 2014 by Turtle

[TexasChic]

The actor was just very charismatic. Of course I don't like the character he portrayed.

[Seawolff]

I'm fairly convinced Eugene is full of crap, without any evidence at all. But I believe Abraham is so desperate for something to believe in that he's not asking Eugene the hard (or even the basic) questions. He needs a mission and Eugene is it. If Eugene is lying or deluding himself, I don't think anyone will be more devastated than Abraham. Getting Eugene to Washington seems to be his reason for going on. I'm not sure why Rosita is on board but maybe she saw Abraham without a mission and it wasn't pretty.

It's possible that Eugene, in his own head, believes he has the answer. Also possible that he is bat shit cray cray and doesn't realize that it was a video game in a dream.

I hate to point this out (not really) but when you slaughter male animals, you have to remove the testes right away. Otherwise the meat will have a funny taste. Not "ha-ha" funny either.

You have to remove the guts ASAP. The boy parts can wait til you're cutting the carcass into its cuts. At that point you have to carefully remove or be careful not to cut into any glands, including the family jewels while you're at it or it does make the meat stank and thangs....Men.

Just in case anyone needs the info......

I'm a deer hunter. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Seawolff

[Starchild]

The watch that Carol picked up from the table was Rick's watch, which he gave to fruit ninja Sam.  Her old watch that Ed gave her was next to it.

Are we sure about that? I thought the last time we saw it was when Rick put it on the nightstand before lying down back in that house. I don't think he grabbed it before jumping under the bed. Pretty sure he left without it. It's probably still there.

 

I'm not sure why Rosita is on board but maybe she saw Abraham without a mission and it wasn't pretty.

Didn't Tara say she thought that Rosita was in love with him and would follow him anywhere?

 

I also think everybody at the CDC would have known if it was even possible to come up with a biological, chemical, pharmaceutical or witchcraft cure.

Yeah, I can't wait to see Rick's reaction to Eugene's stonewalling.

 

This talk about genetic cures makes me wonder if Judith might end up serving a larger plot point. Any chance that people born after the outbreak are clean, or at least immune? If she were scratched or bitten but didn't turn, her survival is even more highly prioritized. And even if they decided to kill her off because it's just too hard dragging a baby around in this new world, if she didn't come back, it tells them the same thing. Gives hope.

 

We might see a little more shagging then. ;)