S04.E01: Monsters Among Us

[Constantinople]

Late to the party.

I think this is one of those shows that it's either to your taste, or it's not. I fall in the latter group.

The clown bordered on cliche, if he didn't go right over the line and land fully in tiresome trope. Fo r a while, I thought he was going to bore his victims to death. Crazy Joe Davola from Seinfeld was a scarier clown.

It didn't help that

 

The scene with the clown and the couple having a picnic was reminiscent of a scene from the movie Zodiac.

since it largely robbed the scene of any suspense, other than how the attacks would differ. Perhaps

 

...the carny people are the 70s and the rest of the AHS world is the 50s, because wouldn't the 50s have been horrified by the freak show of the 70s?

Since the scene in Zodiac was based on the real life attack by the Zodiac killer of a couple at Lake Berryessa, albeit an attack that took place in 1969.

Also, as many have noted, it's a little odd that, aside from the mother of the bored son, no one has noticed the clown or reported him to police. Particularly during a time when local police were much less constrained by quaint notions such as the 4th, 5th & 14th amendments.

Then there's the anachronism of Jessica Lange as David Bowie.

 

No, she was channelling David Bowie right down to his blue suit and blue eye shadow from his video. I have no problem mixing genres or timelines for artistic interpretation. Just this summer, I saw Shakespeare's  ‘Much Ado about Nothing’ set to Swing music. It was wonderful!

It's one thing to change a story's original setting to another. That is quite common. It's another to have the characters do something that is out of time and place in the chosen setting. It would be as if someone channeled Bill Haley playing Rock Around the Clock in the adaption of "Much Ado About Nothing" set to swing. Subject of course, to the suggestion that the carny people are in the 70s.

I don't have anything to add about the candy striper, other than to put me in the "she was raped" camp.

But, as I say, I think appreciation or dislike of this show is largely a matter of individual taste, or at least, more so than usual.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Much like a woman who has been roofied.  She was absolutely assaulted and it was really disturbing to watch.

Not a good comparison if she deliberately took the opium (which seems the most likely scenario). If you voluntarily get drunk or high, you're considered responsible for your own actions; nobody says tough luck about that guy you ran over, but you were impaired at the time, so it wasn't your fault.

[peacheslatour]

How does that half woman work?  As far as I can tell, it doesn't look like she has a way to excrete waste.

[Watermelon]

How does that half woman work?  As far as I can tell, it doesn't look like she has a way to excrete waste.

She said she has everything except her legs. I get the impression that due to the way she gets around her torso is behind her arms, so it looks shorter/stumpier than it is. She mentioned in a video that she was born with legs but they were deformed in some way so the doctors cut them off. She still has all her necessary equipment.

[peacheslatour]

I see, thanks.  So she is real.  I was wondering if she was cgi.

[jnymph]

Yeah in the video, her 2 cute kids are shown on set as well. I recall seeing a documentary about her on TV once. She's a very phenomenal lady!

Apologies as now I can't find the video I mention !!! But someone posted it in the speculation thread I believe.

But here is a cool article about her;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2199290/My-kids-love-having-worlds-shortest-mom-The-half-body-mother-5ft-11ins-boyfriend-defied-doctors-warnings-healthy-children.html

Edited October 16, 2014 by jnymph

[SissyFrank]

What the hell accent was Kathy Bates doing? I couldn't figure it out. At times, some words almost sounded Canadian. I was just waiting for her to say aboot.

It's a horrible Baltimore accent.  She overdoes it big time.

[EC Amber]

Eh, I'm underwhelmed with the "is it rape?" situation. I'm not convinced the show gave us enough to say with any certainty.. in fact, I'm more convinced they made it ambiguous on purpose. If it wasn't intended to be ambiguous then it was filmed very poorly. 

Personally if someone takes a drug, kills someone and can't remember - there isn't much there to protect them from the consequences of their actions. If they are on film smiling during it it tends to increase culpability, not remove it. If someone takes a drug has sex with multiple partners on film while smiling and comes back the next day upset over the events - I simply can't bring myself to feel too sympathetic. 

[Betweenyouandme]

Except that Peppermint Gummer didn't commit a crime, she was the victim of one, gang rape.

In Texas at least, this doesn't fly. In fact, the "victim" is sometimes prosecuted (false report) if they claim rape, but the police determine willingly getting drunk was a large part of the situation.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Except that Peppermint Gummer didn't commit a crime, she was the victim of one, gang rape.

That would require declaring that you're only responsible for some things you might do after choosing to be in an altered state and not others and that gets insane quickly. If her partners were in the same state, does than mean she raped them too? Texas has the right idea. If you can't trust yourself while intoxicated, don't get intoxicated (or have someone watching out for you).

[EC Amber]

Um... This is getting personal. Maybe the topic should refocus on the episode?

[shelley1234]

Not a good comparison if she deliberately took the opium (which seems the most likely scenario). If you voluntarily get drunk or high, you're considered responsible for your own actions; nobody says tough luck about that guy you ran over, but you were impaired at the time, so it wasn't your fault.

If someone is impaired and severly under the influence by law they cannot give consent. Sex without consent even if the person did not say no is a sex crime. In the 50s it wasn't but it sure is today. Is it prosecuted....well no, but then again most sexual assaults aren't.

[Betweenyouandme]

Reporting a rape that happened while you were drunk is not the same as filing a false police report of being raped.

A classic straw man argument and a favorite of the MRA/"misandry" set.

And that is some stellar victim blaming. Kudos.

No, I agree it isn't the same, but Texas doesn't agree. Happened to me. Blacked out. Learned the hard way. I mean, I get it's controversial and difficult. But, I think prosecuting for a false report is going too far when none of the facts about what happened are false, but they're interpreted differently. But, I did learn some things. I no longer drink, and I am very- probably too- selective about who I hang out with. The situation broke me. Edited October 17, 2014 by Betweenyouandme

[Watermelon]

Reporting a rape that happened while you were drunk is not the same as filing a false police report of being raped. 

 

A classic straw man argument and a favorite of the MRA/"misandry" set.

 

And that is some stellar victim blaming. Kudos.

 

I've always wondered about that. It always assumes that one person was under the influence and the other wasn't at all. Which is rarely how it happens. 

 

I can't talk about real life, but this show has given no proof Peppermint was forced to the carnival or forced to take the opium or was the only person under the influence of said opium. 

 

I'm going to assume they wanted it ambiguous and leave it at that.

[maraleia]

Note to the posters: Any more discussion of rape in general will be deleted on sight. Unless the discussion refers to the actual events in the episode of course. I will be leaving the posts upthread alone, however, don't take that as a license to quote from them in future posts.

 

If anyone needs a primer about rape here is a handy link from the Rape, Abuse, Incest National Network website https://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape

 

Thanks...your mod maraleia

[WearyTraveler]

For me, it's hard to form an opinion on exactly what happened to the Candy Striper.  I can't say I know all the facts because they weren't shown in the episode. 

 

We saw Elsa giving her a card and asking her to come to the tents, Candy Striper seemed intrigued.  We don't know if she went voluntarily, or if Elsa talked her into it (e.g. worked harder to convince her to go), or if the cigarettes Elsa gave her were laced with opium and she made the decision to go while under the influence.  I think the show wants us to believe that she went voluntarily because of her expression when she got Elsa's card, but I don't think they showed that categorically.

 

Next thing we know Candy Striper is telling Elsa she wants to go home.  She looks disheveled, her hair is all tangled up, she's wearing a robe that keeps barely in place and a bra, and her make up is all smeared.  Then we see the spliced video showing the Candy Stripper doing drugs and participating in an orgy, smiling through it all.  She seems to be surprised at seeing herself enjoying the orgy, so, she clearly was so stoned she didn't remember what she had done.

 

I can't determine if she was taken advantage off or not as I didn't see the scenes leading up to the orgy.  I don't know if her intention was to willingly experiment a little bit but not go as far as she did.  I don't know if the performers manipulated her to get higher and higher or if she kept hitting the pipe of her own volition.  I don't know if the drugs were forced on her.  I don't know if the performers were as high as she was and just kept rolling with or if they were sober while she was high.

 

Unless I know these things, I can't decide if she's a victim of the freaks or of the circumstances.  I think that if she went there willingly and participated in a party the performers were having where everyone was high out their minds with opium, it gets harder to assign blame.  If she went there willingly and then was coerced or manipulated into participating, then I think the freaks acted wrongly. If she was forced, coerced or manipulated into going, then it's all very, very wrong.  But with the facts presented on the screen, I can't tell one way or another.

 

I would also like to know what Elsa's motives were.  Did she just want to teach the Candy Striper a lesson because she overheard her talking about what she would do if she had a "freak" baby? I feel like there's more to this story coming up at some point this season.  I don't think they'd hire that particular actress to play the Candy Striper for only one episode.  And not because the actress is Meryl Streep's daughter, but because she has done other work and she's at that point in an actor's career where the roles they are offered are either highly shocking or significant for a one episode guest spot (which I don't think this was) or recurring / regular on a series.

I looked her up on IMDB and if you want to know if she's credited in later episodes, the answer is

YES

.

Do remember that the information on IMDB is not 100% reliable, though.

Edited October 18, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[wrestlesflamingos]

Jessica Lange is the most amazing human being I've ever seen. Loved every slow minute of Episode 1. I deeply appreciate Bates terrible accent because it highlights how amazing Lange's accent is.

[Armchair Critic]

I just watched this and I have to say it shocked me that the Lobster Boy scene with him using his claw on the woman was on network tv. Also, how do I get invited to that kind of party?...

[jnymph]

Where in gods name have I seen "picnic guy" before? (The one that got stabbed by Twisty)

It's driving me crazy !

Edited October 19, 2014 by jnymph

[Terrafamilia]

Regarding Lobster Jimmy getting 18 dollars for an evening of 'work'. Per this inflation calculator $18 in 1952 would be $480 in 2014. Did he say there were 10 women? That would be 50 dollars each except for the one discount.

 

Regarding whether peppermint girl was being taken advantage of: Given that the whole thing was filmed, the film is in the hands of Elsa, and Elsa did not seem the least bit upset by what went on I'd have to say Yes, she most certainly was.

[WearyTraveler]

Regarding whether peppermint girl was being taken advantage of: Given that the whole thing was filmed, the film is in the hands of Elsa, and Elsa did not seem the least bit upset by what went on I'd have to say Yes, she most certainly was.

 

I don't know. Elsa was certainly blackmailing her, so, in that sense she was taken advantage of.  Much like a politician who gets caught on tape cheating on his wife.  What I don't have very clear yet is if she wanted to try the drugs by herself, if she found it thrilling to be with the freaks, if everyone was high or just her, etc.  I think if they all were high and the party spun wildly out of control because everyone wanted to keep escalating, it gets very complicated to establish consent.

[leisawoo]

Deleted entire post per my note above.

Edited October 20, 2014 by maraleia
refused to heed mod note upthread

[booyakki]

My vague enjoyment of this episode hit the skids as soon as the rape scene started (that's how it read to me - understanding there is some discussion up top about that). I'm so fine if Murder Clown kills them all and burns the tents to the ground. Whoever said it up thread said it right - there is No One to root for this season.

 

Edited to take out some of the FEELS.

Edited October 21, 2014 by booyakki

[blaase]

My vague enjoyment of this episode hit the skids as soon as the rape scene started (that's how it read to me - understanding there is some discussion up top about that). I'm so fine if Murder Clown kills them all and burns the tents to the ground. Whoever said it up thread said it right - there is No One to root for this season.

 

Edited to take out some of the FEELS.

Really what about rooting for Bonnie and the Little boy that Twisty has abducted, or Ma Petit. Personally I'm rooting for Dot, I really like her and Don't think she was wrong to punish Bette for killing their mom.

Edited October 21, 2014 by blaase

[booyakki]

I stand corrected, Blaase. I really would like the little boy to survive, though I'm So disappointed the blonde lady didn't run for it as soon as the scary clown showed up, as every fine tuned survival instinct was undoubtedly telling her to do.

[Portia]

American Horror Story's fourth season has pube faces, evil murder clowns, and a Jessica Lange performance that somehow tops 'The Name Game.'http://previously.tv/american-horror-story/come-for-the-freaks-stay-for-the-freaky-bad-accents/"> Read the story

Thanks to this, every time I watch the AHS opening credits and those babies trade heads, I say, "Totes natch!"

[HeyNow]

She sounds just like 50s-era Baltimore. My stepdad grew up in Baltimore in that time and that's how he talks.

I swear she has an Ohio accent, just like my brother-in-law, born and bred.