Downton Abbey in the Media

[ZoloftBlob]

I think if they pushed the writing a little bit, they could easily wrap it up in one season. Like really, we haven't *needed* 18 episodes of Mary chosing between Blake and Tony

 

[Andorra]

For me series 5 absolutely felt like "saving the best for last". They closed up all storylines from series 4 and 5 (which were all boring and unnecessary anyway) and I think they will now start the finishing storylines in series 6. I don't know if they need series 7 to finish it all. I think it could be done in series 6, but personally I would prefer it to last for 2 more seasons.

 

For example I thought the Atticus/Rose romance was incredibly rushed. Meeting at the end of episode 5, getting engaged in episode 7, married in 8?

If they give something like that to Mary, Tom or Edith, I will be disappointed. It should build more and we should learn more about the new characters.

 

Mary will get married. I think Robert should die and there should be at least a few episodes with Mary adjusting to her new position.

Edith will get married, too IMO. At the very last JF will give her some happiness.

Tom will come home and probably bring a new wife with him.

But I would like for him to become a father again, to get over the trauma that was Sybbie's birth. I would like to see him become successful outside the Abbey, build a new life, but still remain close to Mary and the rest of the family.

 

All in 9 episodes? Feels a bit rushed IMO.

Edited February 1, 2015 by photo fox
added spoiler tags

[SusanSunflower]

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/29/downton-abbeys-future-in-doubt-after-julian-fellowes-fails-to-commit

lots of speculation -- interestingly it sounds like Fellowes' American show may be on the shelf as well. ...

beware:  itty-bitty Tom spoiler 

Leave them wanting more is always better than the alternative ... and future Christmas reunions (of all sorts of shows) seem to be a British tradition --

probably unthinkable to American television culture. 

Edited January 29, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[jumper sage]

We need a scene in the last episode where Sybbie, George and Marigold meet at Downton for the first National Trust tour and tell us what happened to the cast.

Exactly!  The final episode could have them 20 years in the future.

[PRgal]

I was thinking more like 50 years in the future.  And of course Violet would still be alive :)

 

Of course!  Violet's immortal.  She's still alive in 2015 and wondering what a weekend is.  Of course a 2015 Matthew will too.

[Eolivet]

Heh, interesting -- from Page Six:

 

http://pagesix.com/2015/01/11/downtown-forgets-but-doesnt-forgive-abrupt-dan-stevens-departure/

[ZoloftBlob]

I posted that previously in a different thread (I think it was a different thread) 

 

That is the sort of article that if true - the never speak his name no matter that it makes the show avoid otherwise normal human interactions, we're all so hurt still despite everyone being perfectly fine he's gone etc - tells me more about the production's professionalism than Stevens, who is generally respectful of Downton questions.

 

I mean, it's two years down the road, and unnamed production folks are apparently still wanting to associate Dan with the show by dropping fun little bits like how pissy everyone still is and how he'll never be forgiven. I'm guessing, since Steven's career didn't tank like David Caruso's (at least not yet hee) that the bitterness flowing probably isn't coming from Stevens.

[SusanSunflower]

Worse, I suspect they could have kept Stevens for another season or even a few episodes, imho, if the writing had been better and if Matthew were not so horribly rut-bound with no prospect of breaking free. That last season was god-awful repetitive and dull, little skirmishes with Robert , little tiffs and making up with Mary. I despaired and cheered when it was announced.  Sort of how I'm feeling about Tom currently. He looks like Robert's adoring self-satisfied little son too often. Glad the repetitive tiffs with Bunting are over, but with her departure, what's up with Tom? 

Edited February 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Eolivet]

Oh, sorry -- I didn't think to look in other threads but media! My bad.

 

Stevens got his agent to ban any mention of Downton in interviews when he was trying to promote Summer in February last year, so any willingness to talk about Downton is only very recent.

 

If I'm the producers, I'm still irritated by all the snippy comments towards the show in those few months leading up to his departure (a few examples: "The bar for fulfillment has been raised"; "People are starting to learn my name," in response to fans loving the show "It's nice that people care, I suppose" and after his demise, "I asked (the director) for more blood. I wanted to make sure Matthew was dead") Here was his opportunity to leave on a good note, and all he could talk about was how he just couldn't be tied to one role and how he was itching to live in New York. Not gracious at all about the show, the cast or the incredible opportunities it afforded him.

 

I think you've said it before, that he considered himself "too good" for the show. As I've said before, I'm next to 100% positive that Molesley in S4 refusing to take a position because he thought it was too good for him was a slam at Dan Stevens. Pretty creative revenge, actually -- the written kind.

 

But I can see why they don't want Matthew mentioned. It not only threw the show into upheaval, but he threw the show under the bus pretty hard back then.

[ZoloftBlob]

Worse, I suspect they could have kept Stevens for another season or even a few episodes, imho, if the writing had been better and if Matthew were not so horribly rut-bound with no prospect of breaking free. That last season was god-awful repetitive and dull, little skirmishes with Robert , little tiffs and making up with Mary.

 

Based on some articles I've read about Fellowes's general inflexible way of writing - the actors get little to no input in their characters, they aren't allowed to suggest things or improvise, and coupled with what at times sounds like a tough filming schedule, I can see why Stevens wanted to leave. I rewatched season two over the weekend, for fanficcy purposes, and I had seriously forgotten the boat load of crazy Stevens had to carry. I'll forgive season three in that since Fellowes knew when season three began filming that Stevens was leaving, there wasn't much point in setting up much other than the baby, but season two with Matthew's weird asexual relationship with Lavinia, the soap opera wheelchair event, Matthew going from "Honor demands I be forever unhappy!" to "Yeah, I'm cool that you fucked a Turk, lets get hitched" comes off well... not as well written as I remembered.

 

Stevens got his agent to ban any mention of Downton in interviews when he was trying to promote Summer in February last year, so any willingness to talk about Downton is only very recent.

 

I had heard about that and it was prompted in part because the finale for season three had recently aired in the US and was turning pretty much every press event he did into "Why did you leave Downton Abbey" - which probably did get a little old to the other people in the film.

 

He was pretty pleasant and gracious about Downton in interviews he did for The Guest, Night at the Mueseum, and A Walk Among the Tombstones. Allan Leech still seems to like him.

 

I think you've said it before, that he considered himself "too good" for the show. As I've said before, I'm next to 100% positive that Molesley in S4 refusing to take a position because he thought it was too good for him was a slam at Dan Stevens. Pretty creative revenge, actually -- the written kind.

 

I don't think I've said that, although I do think he has a streak of pretentious artsy douche running down his back :)

 

If that was a slam, the Mosely thing, then coupled with the "fuck you Dan!" zippy car of death, and coupled with production dropping snide articles to the Post *two years later* how they're all still pissed.... I mean really, who looks petty and bitter here? It comes off petty indeed, especially since Dan didn't crash and burn and up penniless, on meth, and doing blowjobs in Central Park - he's had three movies out in the last three months and look, here's the Downton people making sure to let everyone know pissed they still are years later.

 

I'm sure the napkins at Lady Mary's next wedding will have "and we still hate Dan" embroidered in Latin on the family crest but really, if Matthew was so important to the story, and Stevens was such a shit actor, then Fellowes should have recast the role and proved the point. Instead we're still watching Mary deathlessly flirt, and apparently the show writer has nothing better to do than write Mosely into "I hate Dan Stevens" scenes.

[SusanSunflower]

I thought the whole triad of Mary forcing Matthew to accept Lavinia's father's money, then plow it all into Downton, and then still have to deal with both Robert and herself reminding him of his "place" and questioning  his decisions wrt Downton because it wasn't really "in his blood" -- after Robert had apparently been incapable for some time of taking financial advice from his financial manager, or minding the store (wrt to the Railroad disaster and thing closer to home, the conditions of the tenants housing) including managing his estate manager ...  It was all very eunuch-y, "Thanks for the bail out, thanks for marrying the difficult Mary, oh and thanks for the heir -- now sit down and shut up"  -- Particularly when Mary would blow hot and cold to get her way. There was no indication until that last season when Matthew teamed up with Tom that the dithering and caviling would ever end.  He had married Mary, plunged his good fortune into Downton, a baby was on the way and he was stuck, but good -- and there was never a flicker of restlessness, mental or physical, placid as a clear blue sky. Dull, dull, dull. No inner life at all, like most of the rest at Downton, but Matthew had known personal freedom -- being a lawyer in London, working for Lavinia's father, even being his father's son ... 

Edited February 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[ZoloftBlob]

but Matthew had known personal freedom -- being a lawyer in London, working for Lavinia's father, even being his father's son ...

 

Did he really?

 

Granted, I admit to fanfic writing so I can wax philosophical all night if need be - but was Matthew ever really given choices? Isobel summed it up nicely in season one. He couldn't refuse being Earl, there was no mechanism to do so. Whatever his life as a lawyer in Manchester was, he had to give it up and do his duty because all the better heirs died and he had to step up. He had to move to a tiny town and any attempt he made to maintain his independence like getting a new lawyer job was mocked mercilessly. His family looked down on him for working, the servants treated him like he was trash. He had no choice in establishing a family, whether he wanted children or not, he was required to have children. He was only nominally allowed to choose his own wife, and when he chose *poorly*, everyone made it pretty clear that Lavinia wasn't *what the family wanted*. There's really never any question that Matthew was required by family to volunteer for the war (although he would have been under extreme societal pressure anyway) He's not even allowed to refuse to marry Lavinia when he has legit concerns about ruining her life. Towards the end, even his mother was telling him  to quit hiding behind Lavinia's grave and get married. Then Papa Swire's money becomes all about his duty to Downton....

 

Matthew's last day of personal freedom was April 14, 1912.

[SusanSunflower]

I think during his time in London working for Mr. Squires was a time of freedom from prying eyes ... and I think his quiet life with his mother before the sinking of the Titanic may have been one of quiet freedom also from having to ask permission constantly, to be always aware of servants' eyes ... To go out to dinner with friends, take in a play, go to a pub ... middle class freedom to do as you please. There were only a few mentions from Lavinia of friends and socializing in London but I think I do remember they had friends, and Mr. Squires adored Matthew and was delighted at their engagement. So much simpler and less needlessly self-conscious and formal. Was it Isobel who last night, questioned something about the formal dressing for dinner only to be told that without proper attire they might as well be savages .... Indeed.  Matthew and his beautiful honeymoon motor car ... with which he (alone or with Mary) just might run away for a weekend or even a week, though they never did of course.  I wonder how much longer Robert will continue to give Cora "the silent treatment" ... eta: Yes, I think he thought that once "crisis mode" was over -- marriage, money, baby -- he would have arrived ... and he never really did.

Edited February 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[maraleia]

Tangentially related to the show http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/02/03/3618614/aaron-schock-downton-ethics/

So he is the 18th district of Illinois Representative in Congress which is made up of 19 counties and the metropolitan areas of Peoria, Springfield, Jacksonville and Bloomington-Normal and he's a closet case. I know this because I've worked in political circles in Illinois and it's an open secret here.

This guy is a piece of work. Here is the original article about the redecoration http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/hes-got-a-downton-abbey-inspired-office-but-rep-aaron-schock-wont-talk-about-it/2015/02/02/1d3f1466-ab1f-11e4-abe8-e1ef60ca26de_story.html

[SoSueMe]

Tangentially related to the show http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/02/03/3618614/aaron-schock-downton-ethics/

So he is the 18th district of Illinois Representative in Congress which is made up of 19 counties and the metropolitan areas of Peoria, Springfield, Jacksonville and Bloomington-Normal and he's a closet case. I know this because I've worked in political circles in Illinois and it's an open secret here.

This guy is a piece of work. Here is the original article about the redecoration http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/hes-got-a-downton-abbey-inspired-office-but-rep-aaron-schock-wont-talk-about-it/2015/02/02/1d3f1466-ab1f-11e4-abe8-e1ef60ca26de_story.html

This is hilarious. Such focus. Poor Big Bird at the mercy of some of these guys.

[AZChristian]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/kate-middleton/11466442/Kate-Middleton-visits-the-set-of-Downton-Abbey-in-pictures.html?frame=3229348

 

Fun pictures of Kate with the cast!

[helenamonster]

Those are really great pictures. She genuinely looks like any normal fan of a TV show who gets to visit the set. And they're clearly all enamored of her.

 

Also, I guess those pictures squash any rumors about a time jump next season. The same little boys are still playing George, and I think that's the same little girl playing Marigold (at least the one at the end of the season; they seem to have switched halfway through).

[Friendly Lurker]

Great photo's! Who is sitting next to Michelle Dockery in the group photo (which, by the way, I love how everyone is laughing)?

[Andorra]

I'm so sad about these pictures. They brought home to me that Allen Leech is no longer considered main cast. They even brought the children to the set and still he and Sybbie are missing.

I'm just tired of these games. Why not announce if he will back or not? Keeping us in suspense is torture and I'm just sick of it.

I've decided to stay away from Downton for now. I won't stick around for a "maybe". Either they announce his return or I will not watch in the fall.

[helenamonster]

Great photo's! Who is sitting next to Michelle Dockery in the group photo (which, by the way, I love how everyone is laughing)?

 

On one side of her is Gareth Neame, one of the producers. On the other is Penelope Wilton (Isobel).

 

It's funny that some of the cast seem to have come to the set just to meet her. Laura, Elizabeth, Penelope, Hugh, and Rob are all in their regular clothes which means they probably weren't on the call sheet for that day. Same for the kids who play George and Marigold, lol I bet their parents wanted to meet Kate.

[Blackie]

I don't see Maggie Smith in the picture, does that mean the Dowager goes way........

[Andorra]

I don't see Maggie Smith in the picture, does that mean the Dowager goes way........

 

No she sent her excuses, she was ill.

 

Unlike Maggie Smith. Allen Leech was not ill. Nor was Fifi Hart. They're obviously not considered "core cast" any more.

[SusanSunflower]

March 20, 2015  Vanity Fair:  Downton Abbey Is Reportedly Ending After Its Sixth Season

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/downton-abbey-ending-sixth-season

 

 

March 2, 2015 Vanity Fair  Downton Abbey’s Sixth Season Will Probably Be Maggie Smith’s Last

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/maggie-smith-leaving-downton-abbey

[helenamonster]

I'm not too surprised. The story's been bouncing around for awhile, and it really is practical. Six years is a long time, and I can understand why the actors would want to move on to other opportunities. Actually, the show ending might be the best thing that could happen to it. Fellowes will be forced to wrap shit up and not tread water. I'm mildly optimistic for what next season holds.

 

It'll be interesting to see which actors manage to elevate their profiles even further post-Downton. A majority of them were virtually unknown before the show (perhaps not to the British audience, but most definitely to the American one). But Jessica Brown Findlay, Dan Stevens, and Lily James all seem to be doing quite well for themselves. I like damn near all the actors and I hope they continue to find success.

[Badger]

However, JF and Gareth Neame just said a few days ago that there are no plans to end the show.  It was at a fan event in Israel or something.  

[annzeepark914]

Count me as a fan who doesn't want the show to end after Season 6.  Heck, they could introduce new characters, keep some of the old (and gradually let them eventually disappear).  I guess I'm spoiled by DA and have enjoyed having a show I can call my own after a lapse of many years (having a show to look forward to each week).  So now JF will be busy writing a new show for NBC (which I'm not the least bit excited about...somehow aristocratic Brits from back in the day are much more interesting than wealthy Americans from the same era--and I'm an American). 

[kassygreene]

I do want the show to wrap up neatly (for Julian Fellowes values of neatly).  He's said that Gosford Park was set when it was (in just about the very last month before Hitler came to power) to show that era - if Downton continues much longer the run up to the war (and George's inevitable part in it) is unavoidable.  Also, if they don't find a good way to bring the Bransons back permanently (or at least for the remainder of season 6), I Will Be Sad.  And Even More Also, Dame Maggie Smith has said she is done after 6.  While the Dowager dying would be a natural progression, the remaining story would be considerably unbalanced.

[ZoloftBlob]

I would prefer a season seven, if only because they'll need to really rush the perfect love story of Mary and Henry Talbot to wrap it up in one season but I think what's not being said is that they're looking at a mass exodus of cast with contracts being up. I suspect Maggie Smith might be talked into a few more episodes, but there's rumors of other people wanting to leave.

 

I'm curious to see how Fellowes reacts - his denial so far is interesting.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think ending it after season 6 is a good idea. A lot of the actors and actresses seem to be moving on to bigger/better stuff. I don't want them to feel trapped.

They could always extend the episode order for season 6, if maybe that would help wrap things up.

All I know is that no matter how they end it, WWII is about 15ish years away, the Great Depression is only a handful of years away, and that's all my mind can think of.

[SusanSunflower]

I'd be tempted to suggest that Fellowes may CURRENTLY be in as much denial about cast members wanting to leave NOW as he was when Dan Stevens decided to exit THEN -- and with regard to the extreme writing challenge involved ahead if he tries to simply "carry-on" ... I don't think he's up to the challenge and his new project beckons. He's squandered so much time and audience buy-in -- everyone rooting for his success -- and ended up with characters going through their well-recognized paces in predictable plots.  Sorry, but imho, Santa's not coming to endow Fellowes with either the imagination or the talent to pull it off.  

 

eta:  

 

WWII is about 15ish years away, the Great Depression is only a handful of years away,

Yes, and Downton moves at a glacial pace ... I don't see any way "move" George from preschool to the battlefields of WWII in 1, 2 or even 3 seasons -- as with most children we don't "know" him and have no personal reason yet to be "invested" emotionally in his story 

Edited March 21, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[helenamonster]

Speaking for myself, I just wouldn't be invested in this show if most of the main characters/actors ended up leaving. I'm not sure exactly which actors have one foot out the door besides Maggie Smith, since I tend to avoid BTS news in the interest of remaining unspoiled, but I feel like there's a tipping point where this show (or any show with a large ensemble) would be rendered pretty pointless if a certain number of the original cast were no longer a part of it.

 

The only possible exception would be if the show did a major time jump where Sibby, George, and Marigold were all aged up to where Tom, Mary, and Edith are now and the story revolved around them, but it would take a lot of contrivance for all three of them, especially Marigold and especially Sibby, to still be living at Downton in their 30s.

 

It sucks when shows you love end, but all shows do have to come to end at some point. And sometimes it's better to end it on the earlier side, as opposed to letting the show drag itself to a conclusion two or three seasons past its expiration date. Imo, it doesn't matter when a show ends as long as the ending is fitting. Downton is the kind of show where I expect everything to be wrapped up in a nice little bow with extra helpings of fan service. Not my personal preference for how to end something, but it fits with the show's tone. I'm fully prepared for the sap.

[ChiCricket]

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/true-downton-abbeys-sixth-season-last-214037066.html

"Good news, Downton Abbey fans: You will not be subjected to Lady Mary’s nursing-home years. Multiple sources confirm to TVLine that Downton‘s upcoming sixth season will indeed be its last. Earlier this month, the Dowager Countess herself, Maggie Smith, acknowledged that the end was near."

[ZoloftBlob]

I'd be tempted to suggest that Fellowes may CURRENTLY be in as much denial about cast members wanting to leave NOW as he was when Dan Stevens decided to exit THEN -- and with regard to the extreme writing challenge involved ahead if he tries to simply "carry-on" ... I don't think he's up to the challenge and his new project beckons. He's squandered so much time and audience buy-in -- everyone rooting for his success -- and ended up with characters going through their well-recognized paces in predictable plots.  Sorry, but imho, Santa's not coming to endow Fellowes with either the imagination or the talent to pull it off.

 

Hehehe yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking, that the denial was going to be an issue. As it is, they just don't have much in the way of spare cast to begin with - the Crawleys are down to Mary, Robert, Cora, Edith, Isobel and Violet. Who can go without wrecking the plot? Violet, and Isobel, sure, and maybe Edith....but my suspicion based on his doing stuff is that it could be Hugh Bonneville who might want to take advantage of offers. The Downstairs? Rumor has it Joanne Frogatt is moving to Los Angeles soon and that pretty much would kill the Bates storyline and are we really that invested in the downstairs storylines?

 

I have said it before, I can't wait until some of the actors write tell all books about what working on this show was like.

[Eolivet]

I'd be tempted to suggest that Fellowes may CURRENTLY be in as much denial about cast members wanting to leave NOW as he was when Dan Stevens decided to exit THEN -- and with regard to the extreme writing challenge involved ahead if he tries to simply "carry-on" ... I don't think he's up to the challenge and his new project beckons. He's squandered so much time and audience buy-in -- everyone rooting for his success -- and ended up with characters going through their well-recognized paces in predictable plots.  Sorry, but imho, Santa's not coming to endow Fellowes with either the imagination or the talent to pull it off. 

 

I guess I don't understand the point of your post. Is this a theory as to why Fellowes hasn't confirmed the show is ending? I'm guessing he can't -- as much power as he wields, he can't make the show disappear from the schedule -- only ITV can do that.

 

Ausiello's story made it clear why the show is ending: the contracts for the actors are up and most (interestingly, he specifically said "the Crawleys" -- likely meaning McGovern, Dockery. Carmichael, Smith) said they would not return for another season. Do you think Fellowes told ITV he would continue writing the show even if all the actors had left and ITV said "Thanks, but no thanks?" Fellowes' ego is pretty big, but that sort of defies believability. Plus, he has "The Gilded Age" to keep himself busy.

 

If I had to guess how this went down, I would think it was like this: 1) NBC made the announcement about "The Gilded Age," 2) ITV got nervous and made overtures about "someone else taking over Downton," 3) Fellowes said absolutely not -- that he would do both, 4) The actors said "Actually, since our contracts are up, we don't intend to continue after season 6 anyway," 5) ITV said "Well, that settles it -- no more Downton after season 6" and is just waiting for the right time to announce it.

 

I guess this feels like a mutual decision on behalf of all parties -- with some parties liking it more than others. But I don't see what I feel is being implied: Fellowes quixotically insisting on continuing the show even after half the cast has left, and the network turning him down. No matter how much one hates Fellowes, that just makes no sense to me.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Eolivet

[SusanSunflower]

However, JF and Gareth Neame just said a few days ago that there are no plans to end the show.  It was at a fan event in Israel or something.  

This was the first post after my post of the VF article -- but there have been reported denials from JF within the last months -- I'm assuming these reports of denials are more-likely-than-not accurate and true ... ergo, short of some "clever" deception by JF (claiming it's not ending when really it is for some arcane reason) -- he's not willing to make an announcement ... reminded me of Dan Stevens -- will-he/won't he be back for an episode of two next season, what was offered, what was refused, etc. ... but all this "drama" and accompanying denials and "secrets" about cast changes became, imho, silly. 

 

eta:  If I were a cast member who had been through months of keeping Stevens widely-rumored departure "secret" -- I might be tempted to "leak" to a "respected source" just to get-it-over-with and force JF's hand.  His demands on the actors to keep "secrets" must be tiresome at at this point, particularly for those leaving. I don't know VF's track-record but JF will be hard pressed to just wave-away this report. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Badger]

This was the first post after my post of the VF article -- but there have been reported denials from JF within the last months -- I'm assuming these reports of denials are more-likely-than-not accurate and true ... ergo, short of some "clever" deception by JF (claiming it's not ending when really it is for some arcane reason) -- he's not willing to make an announcement ... reminded me of Dan Stevens -- will-he/won't he be back for an episode of two next season, what was offered, what was refused, etc. ... but all this "drama" and accompanying denials and "secrets" about cast changes became, imho, silly. 

 

eta:  If I were a cast member who had been through months of keeping Stevens widely-rumored departure "secret" -- I might be tempted to "leak" to a "respected source" just to get-it-over-with and force JF's hand.  His demands on the actors to keep "secrets" must be tiresome at at this point, particularly for those leaving. I don't know VF's track-record but JF will be hard pressed to just wave-away this report. 

FWIW, I have to walk back my previous post  Gareth Neame did say he did not see the show ending for a while, but that was back last year when the season ended in the UK.  As for the event I had referenced, they were both actually fairly noncommital one way or the other.  I still say until we get official confirmation, nothing is official or confirmed. Having said that, I'm pretty sure everyone who needs to know already knows if next season is the last or not.

 

The one thing I want to see is for Thomas to have a proper love interest/romance storyline that doesn't end with a platonic friendship a la Jimmy.  If that happens, although I'd still be sad that the show is ending, I'd be satisfied.  

[SusanSunflower]

It did occur to me that Fellowes himself might have "leaked" to VF ...  Regardless VF has more credibility that most newspapers .. Actually, the "lack of imagination" AFTER Mattthew's death (rather than that dreadful car wreck) is what makes me groan. Rather than endlessly-mournful-Mary, I'd have liked to have seen more Scarlett-O'Hara I'm-not-dead-yet Mary and sooner and with more verve ... even an initially more-mournful more-tearful Mary in the early episodes. Y'know more flesh-and-blood. Nuf. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Do you think Fellowes told ITV he would continue writing the show even if all the actors had left and ITV said "Thanks, but no thanks?" Fellowes' ego is pretty big, but that sort of defies believability.

 

I don't think, unless he'd really flipped, that this exact scenario would play out, but I could see him being in denial that person x, y and z all *really* intended to leave. I frankly had wondered how much of the problem when Stevens left was sheer denial on Fellowes's part. Granted, I come at it from with the old "hindsight is 20/20" - but for all the caterwhaling that Fellowes did - was there ever any doubt that Stevens was refusing to re-up and had no intention of doing the show? Based on Fellowes's public statements that he offered Stevens all kinds of things to stay and even pretty much begged him to do one episode of season four and there's never been any suggestion that Stevens was ever tempted to change his mind, it sure seems like some of the problem was plain denial. I could see something similar going down now if only because I get the impression Fellowes really doesn't like giving up his toys. Maggie Smith says she's not coming back, and Fellowes's statement that the Dowager will simply go off on vacation is a huge cop out as a writer. How much worse would it be if it was someone that couldn't plausibly be written out?

[SusanSunflower]

Bribes may well have worked in the past.  Violet last season (4) was looking very sedentary, heavy and old.... this season (5), she's dropped 30 pounds and is vivacious and has a suitor !!!  Coincidence that "overnight" Violet has a new lease on life?  Obvious character development for Violet's old flame to reappear in half-credibly way? I.think.not.  Isobel's whole revolving suitors plot is now tedious but also seemed "poised" to explain her either being away for other projects or going away with her new husband, not Clarkson who lives next door, to a new life! Was Penelope induced to re-up??? Yes, awaiting the tell-all. 

[Eolivet]

I guess I see the two as entirely different situations: Stevens was one-half of a supercouple that made the cover of TV Guide, when the show was an international phenomenon, whose only U.S. experience was "Vamps" and one Broadway play. The fact that Matthew and Mary got engaged at all leads me to realize Fellowes had no clue Stevens would leave -- that it didn't even cross his mind. Of course he did everything to try to get him to stay -- that's three years of stories Stevens flushed down the toilet (or the loo, as the case may be). I think Fellowes was understandably miffed, because he had an entire storyline planned out thinking that renewing the contract would be a mere formality (as it was with every other actor, save Brown Findlay who'd previously stated she had no intention of staying past season 3). There was no "Plan B" -- it was Matthew/Mary or bust, and it ended up being "bust." I guess he was supposed to just say "It's OK, Dan! I should've realized you had the option not to renew your contract when I wrote the romantic conclusion of your very popular relationship. My bad!"

 

(I just picture him putting down his pen. "There...killed Sybil," and then is handed Stevens' notice. "Oh crap [bollocks?], now I have to kill Matthew, too?!")

 

In this case, Fellowes has a very viable Plan B: "The Gilded Age" (or maybe that was Plan A). He's also seen Downton actors get Hollywood roles and make an increasing number of trips to the U.S. He's had actors such as McGovern say loudly and publicly "I think Downton should only go 5 or 6 seasons." In order to believe he could persuade the majority of the upstairs actors (according to Ausiello) to stay requires a far greater amount of delusion and megalomania than when he thought he could persuade one actor with no history of Hollywood success, a young family and a very visible role on an extremely popular show.

 

Maggie Smith says she's not coming back, and Fellowes's statement that the Dowager will simply go off on vacation is a huge cop out as a writer.

 

I don't understand how that's a cop out. Fellowes dealt with a huge amount of backlash from killing characters -- why on earth would he ever want to kill anyone else? With such a generally upbeat show such as Downton (other than the Anna/Bates stories), Violet's Tragic Passing isn't exactly what viewers are tuning in to see. Fellowes is just damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

[ZoloftBlob]

There was no "Plan B" -- it was Matthew/Mary or bust, and it ended up being "bust." I guess he was supposed to just say "It's OK, Dan! I should've realized you had the option not to renew your contract when I wrote the romantic conclusion of your very popular relationship. My bad!"

 

There's never been any indication that Dan Stevens gave Fellowes short notice that he didn't intend to sign for season four. Even Fellowes says he found out when season three began filming. I get why Fellowes was miffed, but you've indicated yourself that Stevens was telegraphing in season two that he was unhappy with the writing for his character. My point is that for of Fellowes's complaining and talking about it, there's never been any indication that Stevens ever wavered from wanting to leave the show, and the very fact that Fellowes goes on about desperately trying to get him to agree to do one episode of season four indicates the denial of what was happening on Fellowes's part.

 

Now more actors are potentially tipping his apple cart - is it impossible to consider he's reacting the same way?

 

I don't understand how that's a cop out. Fellowes dealt with a huge amount of backlash from killing characters -- why on earth would he ever want to kill anyone else?

 

 

Because it's insulting to the audience to say the Dowager Countess went on vacation, apparently to the same magical farm that Robert's dogs go to?

 

Oh wait, Fellowes is on record saying he'll never write the Dowager dying but we do get a two episode arc about Robert's dog dying. It's a cop out.

[Eolivet]

My point is that for of Fellowes's complaining and talking about it, there's never been any indication that Stevens ever wavered from wanting to leave the show, and the very fact that Fellowes goes on about desperately trying to get him to agree to do one episode of season four indicates the denial of what was happening on Fellowes's part.

 

You see denial -- I see trying to salvage an incredibly bad situation that he knew would be massively unpopular. Telegraphing you're unhappy and not giving any indication until season 3 that you plan on leaving are two different things. McGovern and Coyle have been telegraphing that they're unhappy with their characters for years -- yet they both re-upped and stayed. Maggie Smith has given a figurative middle finger to the show since season 1 when she says she doesn't ever watch it, and she also stayed. I don't see how trying to persuade him to stay is denial at all. Don't all actor departure articles start with a "I tried to persuade him/her to stay..." quote -- I know I saw that on "The Good Wife" when Josh Charles left. I just don't see how a creator who tried everything to keep what he saw as an integral part of his show is some indication he can't accept reality.

 

Plus, the system is totally set up against the writers anyway, because viewers automatically assume any character death is the writer's fault. So any attempt to defend oneself makes the writer look defensive. It's a lose/lose.

 

Because it's insulting to the audience to say the Dowager Countess went on vacation

 

I wouldn't consider that insulting unless Maggie Smith actually died. But after all the flak Fellowes took for Sybil and Matthew's deaths, if I were him, I'd have them finding a freaking fountain of youth on the grounds of the Abbey.

[ZoloftBlob]

Telegraphing you're unhappy and not giving any indication until season 3 that you plan on leaving are two different things

 

Is there any indication that if the show wasn't *Downton Abbey* that an actor with a three season contract giving his notice at the beginning of the third season is unreasonable and unfair? Because you're saying Stevens gave unreasonably short notice when he gave notice at the *beginning* of season three. Now I am sure everyone is sorry he didn't decide at the beginning of season two, the way Jessica Findlay Brown did, but I'd also point out that Sybil got a pretty shitty write out despite how much time she gave Fellowes to work with. If an entire season of notice was short then how much notice SHOULD Stevens have given that he had no intention of continuing his employment?

 

 

I wouldn't consider that insulting unless Maggie Smith actually died. But after all the flak Fellowes took for Sybil and Matthew's deaths, if I were him, I'd have them finding a freaking fountain of youth on the grounds of the Abbey.

It can't possibly be that he didn't do a very good job and followed it up by stating the octogenarian character would never die on the show and would simply "go on vacation" could it?

 

To bring it back - I agree with you that there are certain things Fellowes just isn't going to say but really, if the show isn't being cancelled, why not say so?

[SusanSunflower]

Agree -- The utter awfulness of Matthew's death was the excruciating cheesy contrivance of it... and the gore, which felt very out of place on Downton Abbey where "shocking" is a grim faced policeman ringing the doorbell -- Not here for one of the Bateses? Matthew's dead? My lord!  Let me get Lord Granthem. Mrs. Patmore, put on a kettle!  Better ready the drawing room. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[AZChristian]

. . . Rumor has it Joanne Frogatt is moving to Los Angeles soon and that pretty much would kill the Bates storyline and are we really that invested in the downstairs storylines?

 

 

 

I just chuckled at reading the words "kill" and "Bates" in yet another post . . .

[ZoloftBlob]

You know I do that on purpose right? ;)

 

Kill Bates!

[Avaleigh]

I think ending it after season 6 is a good idea. A lot of the actors and actresses seem to be moving on to bigger/better stuff. I don't want them to feel trapped.

They could always extend the episode order for season 6, if maybe that would help wrap things up.

All I know is that no matter how they end it, WWII is about 15ish years away, the Great Depression is only a handful of years away, and that's all my mind can think of.

I'm hoping for either this or a seventh season because I agree that there's too much to wrap up in only nine episodes. 

 

Even if we can only get one more standard season I think that a wrap up movie would be nice. Maybe like a bonus Christmas Special for the following year. I feel like most of the actors would be willing a one time thing like that. If Maggie isn't interested they could just have Violet being by the seaside and somebody in the family could read a few lines from a letter that she's written or something. (Obviously this would depend on what year they'd choose to show.) I know that JF is resistant to having the Dowager die onscreen but maybe it's something that could happen off screen and the mourning period could be skipped as it mostly was with Matthew? 

[helenamonster]

Not sure exactly what to quote, but to (kind of) add to the Dan Stevens/current cast comparison...I think the actors right now are in a very different place than they were during Season 3 (when they all would have been deciding whether or not to renew their contracts). I can understand after only just three seasons, when the show was still accumulating enormous worldwide success and several of them had gotten Emmy nominations, that they wouldn't want to give up Downton just yet. Dan Stevens seems to have been in a different place. He was not happy with the direction his character was going (or so I've gathered from reading here; I haven't seen any such statements from him myself but I don't doubt they exist), and in the Mary/Matthew pairing, it was Mary/Michelle Dockery who was getting most of the praise and acclaim. I can understand how that would be frustrating and how he'd want to move onto other things, especially if there were opportunities for him to do so. The rest of the cast (and I'm generally speaking of the younger set like Mary/Edith/Tom/Anna, characters played by previously virtually unknown actors who still have their whole careers in front of them) were still riding the wave and wanting to continue with it, which I can understand just as well.

 

So now they're filming Season 6, and they all once again have the option to not renew their contracts. JoFro has a Golden Globe. Allen Leech was in an Oscar-nominated film. And the show's been treading water for the most part since about mid-Season 4. How many more awful women does Allen Leech want to see Tom go through? How many more Debbie Downer stories for Edith can Laura Carmichael handle? Even Michelle Dockery must be getting a little bored with Mary always having to be the best and constantly having men panting after her. And if I were Joanne Froggatt, I'd be terrified of how many more sexual assaults, past or present, Anna is going to have to face. Again, I don't pretend to know what's going on in these actors' minds, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were all in the same place that Dan Stevens was in Season 3: they've done what they can do, there's not much left for them at Downton, and they have other opportunities.

 

Also, while a few stories have been floated where it seems that the Downton set is not the most fun place for an actor to work (the three-minute dinner scenes that take ten hours to film, uncomfortable costumes that they have to be super careful with, and Highclere must be drafty as hell because I'm always seeing pictures of the female cast in floor-length down jackets just sitting around that entrance hall), I've always gotten the impression that, for the most part, the cast all really get along and enjoy working with one another. So if you've got one person who's thinking about leaving, someone else might be like "Well, if they're not gonna be here anymore, maybe I shouldn't re-sign either" and so on and so on until everyone decides they're done.

 

As for not killing off the Dowager...Julian Fellowes is not the first writer/show-runner to be so in love with one of his creations that he can't bring himself to kill them off (or does decide to kill them off but does it offscreen "out of respect for the character") and he won't be the last. Look, we all sat through Sybil's death. And while I consider that episode to be one of the show's best (even though it does tie for first at the top of my personal "most traumatic television episodes in history" list) and believe that Fellowes could deliver just as well on a Death of the Dowager episode, I don't want to see it just as much as he doesn't want to write it. Ok, that's a lie. I'd kind of want to see it. Not because I want the Dowager to die or anything, but this show does generally do "wham!" moments pretty well, and sometimes I'm in the mood for an episode of television that may or may not require follow-up therapy sessions. Although, as much as I love the Dowager, there's no way her death would be as traumatic as Sybil's. A 24-year-old dying of eclampsia and an elderly woman passing away after living a full, vibrant life are two very different scenarios. So I guess it would still be emotional, just not "good Lord, did Satan write this episode?" emotional.

Edited March 22, 2015 by helenamonster

[Eolivet]

Hot off the presses: ITV and Carnival officially confirm Downton Abbey will end after season 6.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/programs/features/news/downton-abbey-season-6-final-season/

 

(Meanwhile, the Daily Mirror is like "...I reported this two months ago, where have you all been?")

[ZoloftBlob]

We need to ring the bell and have Carson fetch us white wine to handle such shocking news! :O

 

<sips white wine>

 

<really just needed an excuse for white wine at 9:30am>

Edited March 26, 2015 by ZoloftBlob