S04.E18: Monster At The End Of This Book

[DittyDotDot]

Sam and Dean meet a writer who has visions about their lives.

 

Another episode that I adore, it's not without it's problems, but overall a creative take on prophecy that settles nicely into their mythology. (Although with the new info on prophets, I'm not sure it all lines up anymore, but whatever.) Plus, all those book covers are a thing of beauty and their reveal alone is worth a watch, IMO. Which reminds me of why I was so in love with the art department in S3--I wonder why they stopped doing all the shrooms? There's also some really nice camera work throughout this episode that I hadn't seen much of since we lost the lovely Kim Manners.

 

I adore Rob Benedict so much and probably what makes me adore Chuck to a ridiculous amount. I also really like the publisher lady and I love Dean's reaction to her dropping her panties to show him her tattoo. At first he's like, "what is this crazy person doing." Which slowly turns into a look of "nice ass."  It's one of my favorite horn doggy Dean moments. And, Zachariah at the end telling Chuck that suicide was pointless because they'd just bring him back was such a heartbreaking moment.

 

My only nitpick here is the actress that plays Lilith feels really cartoonish to me, but maybe it's just because she's somewhat of a let-down after that disturbing and creepy little girl. I do understand why they needed to recast her here--couldn't have a little girl trying to have sexy times with Sam the man--but I'm not sure they even needed the sexy times to begin with. However, that whole exchange between Sam and Dean about whether Sam would actually have sexy times with Lilith was pretty cute, so I guess I'll take it.

 

I think my very favorite part is when Sam and Dean are eating lunch and trying not to have a fight, though. Good stuff, IMO, good stuff.

[Dobian]

The Gospel of Chuck.  Just to hear a priest say that during a mass would be hysterical.  And reading passages like, "...and then Dean stuffed french fries in his mouth as he ogled the bar wench, so it is written..."

[GirlyGeek]

Great episode all around and always fun to watch. Lots of funny moments, the book reveals, the LARPing.  One of the most well done Meta episodes.

Sam admitting here that he wishes he could stop is heartbreaking.  And all the truth that Chuck is throwing out while Sam continues to be so in denial...

With the recent revelation that

Spoiler

Chuck is God,

I wonder about how this episode holds up, but honestly don't have the brain power to pick apart something that I doubt the writers planned back in Season 4, lol.

I especially like the scene where Dean prays and Cas shows up.  It really was one of the first times I recalled liking Cas and seeing that he really was different than the other Angels (though I know we had glimpses of that) and that he was just as scared and confused and questioning everything as Dean was.  

 

[Hanahope]

The Winchester gospel? Seriously?  It was a fun episode, Dean and Sam realizing there's a whole series of books about their life, and how they of course knew everything in the books with the publisher because, of course, it's their life, but the gospel and prophet bit I thought was too much, just too campy.  

It was also fun seeing Dean order a tofu burger, though he ate a bacon cheese.  And the two trying not to fight.  And nice seeing Dean 'praying'.  Hopefully that faith will grow and help them.

[Katy M]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:15 PM, Hanahope said:

It was also fun seeing Dean order a tofu burger, though he ate a bacon cheese

The look on his face  when the waitress took it away was one of the best parts of the episode.

[bettername2come]

I love this episode. I bought the Sesame Street book because of this episode. I am greatly amused that this fandom actually has fictional characters freaked out. I mean, that's impressive. Keegan Connor Tracy is great as the publisher fangirl. "It's a Misery thing!" "I'm definitely a god. A cruel, cruel, capricious god." "Writing is hard." I love Chuck. I love that Dean knows Vonnegut.

Spoiler

Because Mary loved Vonnegut. Aw. And less funny that Chuck actually is kind of a capricious God. 

 "You especially are not going to like this." "I didn't like hell." 

I love that Dean is convinced Sam's going to screw Lilith, while Sam unsuccessfully tries to argue. "It frustrates me when you say such reckless things." Dean looks so proud of himself when he tells Sam "No homework. Watch some porn." I really like Jared's delivery of "unsympathetic?" I hate Sam saying Dean's not Dean since hell while he slides down that slippery slope. I don't like hypocrisy from these characters. Rob Benedict is great at infusing this kindness and empathy into Chuck in the motel scene with Sam. 

"You should've seen Luke."

I love Castiel telling Dean why he can't help. Season 4 was great for watching Castiel's loyalty shift.

Sexy Lilith is weird. I don't blame the actress. The character's written mature and differently to make the potential Sam sex not so gross, and it just doesn't fit her previous characterization, even when played by Katie Cassidy last season.

"We'd only bring you back to life." Poor Chuck.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Lol.  It looked like Fabio posed for Sam for the cover of Supernatural.  Is this the first time we saw the anti-possession tattoos?  I can't remember.  I liked the narration as Sam and Dean walked up to the door.  "Real, fake IDs".  "Oh, you're still there.  This is not a hallucination."<-I wonder how many people actually say that or a version thereof to Sam and Dean.  It's got to be quite a few.  

I love the laundromat scene - and not just because we actually get to see them doing something mundane like laundry (although that's a big part of it.)  "Gigantic darks" makes me chuckle.  Also Sam's 'pensive and brooding shoulders.'

Dean should have just stayed at the motel with Sam when they checked in.  The car was already parked.  He didn't need to drive to park it elsewhere.   Then he wouldn't have been driving around all day.

Look at Cas being all cagey.  

"I am the prophet Chuck!"  Lol.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Is this the first time we saw the anti-possession tattoos?

Jus in Bello.

 

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

The car was already parked.  He didn't need to drive to park it elsewhere.

I found that ridiculous also.  How is parked on the street better than parked in the parking lot.  Did he think he was going to get an uncontrollable urge to drive?

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Dean should have just stayed at the motel with Sam when they checked in.  The car was already parked.  He didn't need to drive to park it elsewhere.   Then he wouldn't have been driving around all day.

Yeah, I didn't get that part either. Not only was re-parking the car silly, but wouldn't it have been more against-script if they had stuck together rather than split up? And, really, there was zero chance of sexy times with Lilith if Dean was also in the room. ;)

Edited July 2, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[RulerofallIsurvey]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Jus in Bello.

Ah, thanks!  I skipped that one while I was skipping through S3.

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Did he think he was going to get an uncontrollable urge to drive?

Lol!  Only if Chuck wrote it, apparently.  

[Wayward Son]

I've never been a big fan of the meta episodes, so it probably isn't surprising that I generally found the first half of the episode to be a rather dull. However, for me at least, the second half of the episode (from Sam's discussion with Chuck about his use of demon blood on) is much stronger and one of my favourite parts of season four.

I found the discussion between Sam and Chuck about the youngest Winchester's motivation to be a rather interesting one. IMO there are elements of both motivations given which are driving Sam throughout season four. What Chuck says to Sam "Maybe the demon blood makes you feel stronger? More in control" makes sense in light of the events of season three and the four months between them. Throughout the course of season three Sam was made to feel powerless and impotent. His brother was destined to go to hell and there was nothing he could do about it. This helplessness was further compounded by his ultimate failure and being forced to watch as Dean was literally torn to shreds before his eyes. This was then followed by a period of grieving and further feelings of being powerless as nothing he tried would bring Dean back. In light of those events, I think it was only human for Sam to enjoy the feeling of power that came with consuming the demon blood and developing psychic abilities. Finally, he was able to do something he could consider useful! He was able to fight back against the demons, he was able to hold his own against beings like Alastair even the angels couldn't deal with! IMO going from utter helplessness to that level of power in a short period of time led to a natural arrogance and hubris. Suddenly Sam had the power and it made sense to him that he'd be the one who could stop Lilith! That he was the one who was needed to stop the apocalypse. 

However, while his behaviour was twisted by hubris and a power high I also believe that Sam held a genuine worry about Dean and his capabilities. Dean had been changed by his experiences in hell. He was no longer as confident as before, he was more hesitant and had himself expressed, on multiple occasions, doubts about his ability to carry the burden on his shoulder. While Sam's hubris and power high may have made him more unsympathetic and colder to Dean's plight than normal I do believe even under normal circumstances, in this context, he would have worried about the stress Dean was under and tried to relieve him of it. So ultimately I think Sam both genuinely believed he needed to help Dean who was suffering from hell PTSD, but he also enjoyed the feeling of power and control the demon blood and his powers provided.

On another note about that discussion, watching Chuck's "that seems to be where the story is headed" with the knowledge

Spoiler

Chuck is God puts the whole conversation in a completely different light. He goes from coming across as a nice guy who is genuinely trying to help Sam to a manipulative piece of crap who is no worse than many of the baddies the Winchester's have faced throughout the show. This is the first time I've watched since the Guck reveal and my opinion of him has now been dramatically lowered. 

 

I loved the scene between Castiel and Dean in the hotel's parking lot! The chemistry between Misha and Jensen here was sizzling, and I adored the way Castiel "mentions" the fact that an archangel will always come and protect a prophet in their hour of need. Although he expressed his doubts back in On the Head of a Pin, this is the very first time he actively makes a suggestion that goes against heaven's agenda! Get you Castiel, you sassy little rebel here! I just love Misha's expression as he is explaining this to Dean. It's totally "I'm trying to tell you something important here dumbass" hahaha.

Everytime I watch this episode I can never decide if this is some sort of elaborate test or the deal was a genuine "crisis of faith" on Lilith's part. What do you guys think? On the one hand I can understand her not wanting to die, but on the other hand if she was genuine why didn't she just say

Spoiler

"hey, I'm the final seal! Don't kill me if you want Lucifer to come back". But then if she was planning to weasel out of it... how could she have broke the final seal without Sam around to kill her?

What do you guys think?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 7/16/2017 at 5:14 PM, Wayward Son said:

Everytime I watch this episode I can never decide if this is some sort of elaborate test or the deal was a genuine "crisis of faith" on Lilith's part. What do you guys think? On the one hand I can understand her not wanting to die, but on the other hand if she was genuine why didn't she just say

  Reveal hidden contents

"hey, I'm the final seal! Don't kill me if you want Lucifer to come back". But then if she was planning to weasel out of it... how could she have broke the final seal without Sam around to kill her?

What do you guys think?

I commented on a bit of this in the Lucifer Rising thread, so I'm going to move my response there, as I think it would be a more appropriate place.

[sarthaz]

I generally like the Chuck stuff and I enjoy this episode, but it always bothers me (way more than it probably should) that "the last names were never in the books."  Chuck really is a terrible writer if he tried to establish all that backstory without the Winchester (and Campbell) name.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, sarthaz said:

I generally like the Chuck stuff and I enjoy this episode, but it always bothers me (way more than it probably should) that "the last names were never in the books."  Chuck really is a terrible writer if he tried to establish all that backstory without the Winchester (and Campbell) name.

I should technically probably spoiler tag this, but it's so generic I won't bother.  What bugs me is that people who have read the books, know their last names.

I once read a book where they didn't give a main character a first name.  And, it's either the book Blindness, or something else, that doesn't have names at all.

[Iju]

the monster at the end of this book!!!! my mother read that to me and my sibs ALL THE TIME when we were really young. she read it perfectly in grover's voice and everything! even in our double digits we still kept reading it. one of the best memories of our childhood :)

 

i thought this episode was going to be tragic because of the very near the 4th wall break, but around 20mins in it was good. my favorite parts is when they clearly (and cannonly) jabbed at the wincest shippers and when the writer apologised for the bugs and the ghost ship episode (although that episode wasn't so bad!).

my father actually got emotionally upset that dean's car was destroyed, he even called the show "horrible...why would they do that to his car?!?" lol.

wow. so the sucking blood thing was so bad even the prophet didn't write it in. jeez. but i disagree about it making sam appear unsympathetic. sam has been trying so hard to kill lilith, and that's only because of one thing - his brother. she held his contract to hell and was the one who sent him to it. sam has been burning on the inside with so much rage at her and so much protection for dean, he's desperate, very so at that. he died and made dean make the Deal, he couldn't save him from it, watched him die, and now he doesn't want to see dean burden the mission of apparently saving the planet.

but what about sam denying he used it to be stronger, when we know that is a lie? that is what makes him a complex person. it's fun and easy for sam to turn on his power and not send demons back to hell, but kill them. but that doesn't make him unsympathetic. we all didn't hate peter when he was symbiote spiderman. we understood why he kept using the alien. besides if we blame sam for liking it when he uses his powers we can easily blame dean because he liked torturing souls for 10yrs, and that's something that none of us want to do. 
that doesn't mean sam shouldn't be held accountable for what he's choosing to do. he should and, i'm sure, he will. but i don't hate sam on this. in the end he's still the sam we all know and "sammy" to dean. we just need to see him fully get there, that's all.

...oh and i'm really starting to like cas. which is a surprise because i was prepared to be so bitter towards him for adding himself to the brothers (that much i knew was going to happen in the future seasons). his expression when he "told" dean to get the prophet like he was saying "Oh, whatever shall we do Dean?" made me laugh.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Iju

[Wayward Son]

5 hours ago, Iju said:

...oh and i'm really starting to like cas. which is a surprise because i was prepared to be so bitter towards him for adding himself to the brothers (that much i knew was going to happen in the future seasons). his expression when he "told" dean to get the prophet like he was saying "Oh, whatever shall we do Dean?" made me laugh.

Glad to hear you like Cas! He’s my favourite thing about the show these days. 

 

Mild Casting Spoilers that spoil absolutely nothing about future storylines. 

Spoiler

As for Cas ‘adding himself to the brothers’ IMO he never overshadows them or anything like that. Cas/Misha has always remained a series regular and has never appeared in every episode of a season the way Sam and Dean do. SN is still very much the Winchester brothers show and everyone else is secondary. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Wayward Son

[Iju]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Glad to hear you like Cas! He’s my favourite thing about the show these days. 

 

Mild Casting Spoilers that spoil absolutely nothing about future storylines. 

  Hide contents

As for Cas ‘adding himself to the brothers’ IMO he never overshadows them or anything like that. Cas/Misha has always remained a series regular and has never appeared in every episode of a season the way Sam and Dean do. SN is still very much the Winchester brothers show and everyone else is secondary. 

oh okay, thanks for that heads up! i really appreciate it^^

[DeeDee79]

13 hours ago, Iju said:

my father actually got emotionally upset that dean's car was destroyed, he even called the show "horrible...why would they do that to his car?!?" lol.

I agree with him! The smashed windows on Baby were painful to look at :(

[Iju]

5 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I agree with him! The smashed windows on Baby were painful to look at :(

the car's name is baby? lol! makes sense...

but yeah, my father watches the show 70% for the car and 30% for dean (he doesn't give poor sam chance!). there was one time in S3 when they were riding in bobby's car and he didn't know it and was freaking out, he thought they changed the car. oh yeah and in S2 when the car was destroyed in the first ep he let out a horrified gasp. i hope nothing else happens to the car, he will have a heart attack ;_;

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Iju said:

e car's name is baby? lol! makes sense...

Yeah, Dean called it Baby in s1. The name stuck ever since.

Edited March 25, 2018 by catrox14

[trxr4kids]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah, Dean called it Baby in s1. The name stuck ever since.

This is what happens when you binge watch I think, you miss relevant details and possible later plot points. Kids these days am I right? ; )

[Iju]

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah, Dean called it Baby in s1. The name stuck ever since.

oh thanks for that^^

12 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

This is what happens when you binge watch I think, you miss relevant details and possible later plot points. Kids these days am I right? ; )

it's really common to call anyone and anything baby, thus why i didn't think it was the official name. i did hear him call the car baby, but i just thought he nicknamed it, i didn't know that it was the official name.

[DittyDotDot]

6 hours ago, Iju said:

i did hear him call the car baby, but i just thought he nicknamed it, i didn't know that it was the official name.

Well, actually, Dean first called her Baby in S2, not S1, but the fans had already dubbed her Metallicar by then. I wouldn't say there is an "official" name. In show, she's called "The Impala" far more than anything--Dean calls her his baby from time to time, though--but fans have really glammed on to "Baby" in recent years.

Edited March 26, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

Well, and there was the episode

Spoiler

"Baby," so I guess maybe we could say that by season 11 the name was official?

I don't know if that kind of thing is a spoiler, so I tagged it. There's no real plot points under there though, so don't be too afraid to look.

Edited March 27, 2018 by AwesomO4000
Got the season wrong for a hot second

[Iju]

6 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, actually, Dean first called her Baby in S2, not S1, but the fans had already dubbed her Metallicar by then. I wouldn't say there is an "official" name. In show, she's called "The Impala" far more than anything--Dean calls her his baby from time to time, though--but fans have really glammed on to "Baby" in recent years.

well the most i know is that the impala is a girl for sure! lol

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Well, and there was the episode

  Hide contents

"Baby," so I guess maybe we could say that by season 11 the name was official?

I don't know if that kind of thing is a spoiler, so I tagged it. There's no real plot points under there though, so don't be too afraid to look.

ahh really? that episode title actually seems interesting just by the title alone (weird i know), i hope to catch up to it soon.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Well, and there was the episode

  Reveal hidden contents

"Baby," so I guess maybe we could say that by season 11 the name was official?

I don't know if that kind of thing is a spoiler, so I tagged it. There's no real plot points under there though, so don't be too afraid to look.

This

[AwesomO4000]

8 hours ago, Iju said:

ahh really? that episode title actually seems interesting just by the title alone (weird i know), i hope to catch up to it soon.

It's a great episode, in my opinion.

Spoiler

It's shot entirely from the "perspective" of the car.

Again no real plot points, but it's about a future episode, so... tagged.

[Iju]

12 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

It's a great episode, in my opinion.

  Reveal hidden contents

It's shot entirely from the "perspective" of the car.

Again no real plot points, but it's about a future episode, so... tagged.

haha! that's even more interesting. anticipating! :)

[The Companion]

I love the book from which this episode stole its title. It was one of my favorites to read as a kid and I love reading it to my son. The REAL one. Thet re-released it with Elmo. Go away, Elmo, you already have the lion share of merchandise. 

Grover sees the title of the book and does everything he can to prevent you from turning the page. Then it turns out he is the monster and he was scared for nothing. The episode, in my opinion, borrows a bit of this theme. They are given a peek into upcoming events and try to stop them.

I loved this episode, and that makes two in a row. I thought this was a good pairing with It's a Terrible Life. Something about the two flowed really well for me.

The humor really worked for me. The attempt not to fight. The burger. The meta commentary on Sam and Dean girls and slash fiction and the bug episode. It was great. 

The story was great too. I honestly loved the resolution. It was clever. I felt for the prophet, though. He now knows that the stories are real. His joy in creating a story is now converted into a pretty specific horror. He knows the things he writes will come true and can't to anything about it. He is Cassandra with no way out. 

Onto Lillith and Sam's consideration of the deal. We know demons lie. While they are bound by these deals, they will also exploit loopholes. I feel like a lot more negotiating was necessary. I found the sex thing to be weird and it made me wonder if her goal wasn't something related to the sex. 

As far as the discussion of Sam's motives, I wonder if the original story had Dean going a lot darker. Being a lot more tortured. There have been hints of it, but his character has been fairly consistent with pre-hell Dean and it makes a lot of what the show is telling us nonsensical. If Dean felt like he spent 40 years in hell and if he felt somewhat broken, Sam's justifications would feel more authentic. 

Overall this episode felt a lot less disjointed than some of the other episodes this season. I really enjoyed it.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Edited.

This is pretty spoilery for an episode thread.

Edited November 29, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is pretty spoilery for an episode thread.

It is?.... How do I mark it as spoilery. Isn't it assumed that everyone has watched a 5 by now except for Demian who asks to be spoiled.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

It is?.... How do I mark it as spoilery. Isn't it assumed that everyone has watched a 5 by now except for Demian who asks to be spoiled.

My understanding is that the individual episode threads assume nothing past that episode. There is All Episodes for future episode discussion. Not a mod though.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is pretty spoilery for an episode thread.

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is pretty spoilery for an episode thread.

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is pretty spoilery for an episode thread.

I can't edit it. Oh wait... yes... I was able to edit it.

I find this format restrictive.

I miss IMBD.

I am hopeless.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My understanding is that the individual episode threads assume nothing past that episode.

This is correct. Content of future episodes should not be discussed in past episodes topics, even if that future episode has aired. If anyone needs a refresher the sitewide spoiler policy is here.