S04.E17: It's A Terrible Life

[DittyDotDot]

Dean Smith and Sam Wesson work for Sandover Bridge and Iron Co. where their co-workers start killing themselves.

 

I Enjoy this episode so much. I should probably out myself as a lover of most alternative universe stories, though. I just find it to be a clever story with a little fun all wrapped into a an old fashioned ghost hunt, what more can I ask for? Smith and Wesson; "did you turn it off and back on"; Dean Smith driving a Prius and doing The Master Cleanse...lots of stuff that makes me smile. I even like Sam and Dean learning how to hunt a ghost from those useless douchebags the Ghostfacers--suckage major (hee!)  And Kurt Fuller as Zachariah at the end is wonderful. I especially love the lighting change when Zachariah touches Dean, very effective little trick there. It's an episode that fits nicely into Supernatural's wheelhouse and I appreciate it on that level.

 

So overall, it's an enjoyable hour of television that I really enjoy. I do realize they could have used a better transition after On The Head Of A Pin, but that's not this episode's fault that TPTB hadn't mapped it out better, IMO.

 

One of my favorite exchanges ever:

Dean: How would we live? Come on, you got to be kidding me. How would we get by—with stolen credit cards, huh? Eating diner food drenched in saturated fats? Sharing a crap motel room every night?

Sam: Those are details.

Dean: Details are everything! You don't want to go fighting ghosts without any health insurance.

Edited September 26, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I join you in your enjoyment of this episode. I re-watched today to see if it lost anything for me on repeated viewings. It didn't.

 

The sets were a thing of beauty - from the creepy building to the cubicle farm complete with name plates even for Sam Wesson's cubilcle neighbors we don't meet. I thought the set guys really paid attention to detail here. The dilapitated storeroom where old computers and equipment go to die was also well done, and I liked how they allowed the scenes in there to play out - not having the boys finding the clues they needed right away - but still made it interesting enough with the details and frenetic energy to take their time.

 

I liked similarly how Sam and Dean found out the clues as they went along, solving the rather typical ghost story. But it didn't need to be complicated for the story since there was already a "mystery" of sorts, considering that we didn't quite know exactly what was going on or why with Sam and Dean. The use of the Ghostfacers was a nice touch, and I enjoyed much of the dialogue here, including the scene DittyDotDot mentions above.

 

Some other dialogue bits I loved: The Ghostbusters "informatinal videos." The Sam and Dean in the elevator bits, especially the "you overshare" scene. The whole scene ending with "I am dying to check this out right now" where the scene let Sam and Dean have the whole long conversation discussing what Dean saw in the bathroom and even giving Dean a little room to try to deny it to himself and/or avoid it and Sam finally confessing his dreams to make it more believable that they would get to that point. (The whole poking fun at the psychic thing was a nice touch too). The whole scene in Dean's apartment and their complimenting each other on saving the guy in the store room, including Dean's "I don't believe in destiny." (nice nod to real Dean) Sam's "All right, so, what do we do now?" (nice nod to real Sam and Dean's relationship), and then the little joke-yet-not of Dean's "We do what I do best, Sammy: research." And then even down to the bittersweet reality of season 4 with Sam "Wesson" questioning Dean's calling him "Sammy." The elevator scene where Sam's instincts told him not to shimmy through that open hole - yeah I don't blame him there, stuck elevators are scary enough without the ghost activity. Then there was the final scene introducing Zachariah with "You should see my decoupage." and Dean's "Gross. No, thank you." The beginning montage was also nice with "Well Respected Man."

 

I liked that this episode had those long scenes that were alowed to develop and let the details keep the interest rather than chopped up back and forth scenes between various action.

 

I have a quibble or two - for example, how did Sam get out of that elevator after the security guard got smooshed? And it was a little heavy with the "we should be doing something else" / destiny message, though not so bad for a Sera episode and I much preferred a Sam who thinks he should be saving people hunting things and enjoying that to... whatever the hell was supposed to be the message / motivation of "Chris Angel..." I also enjoyed that Dean Smith was successful and smart - though there was the implication / bias of the show that smart and successful = douchebag, but that is usual for this show, so I've come to accept it - but still came to realize that he did want to do something more. It was believeable that Sam was hurried more along in that regard due to his cubicle setting and his psychic dreams cluing him in that something wasn't quite right, but eventually both came to the realization that they liked doing "more."

 

Okay, I think I've gushed enough... This one is in my top 3 for the season.

Edited September 26, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[mertensia]

This episode is fun and has fun. "Those useless douchebags the Winchesters". Sam slowly going bonkers as a helpdesk guy.

Awesom 4000 I think after the security guard's messy death the elevator went back to normal.

Can I also mention in passing that I am so glad I don't have a boss like Sandover?

[GirlyGeek]

It's strange, I have no issues with this episode. It's funny and fabulous and great dialogue. But I don't reach for it as one to re watch. I forget about it because it's right smack in the middle of all the angst and I usually just want to get on with the storyline. Weird, cause it's actually a great episode and even on re watch I loved it.

So overall, it's an enjoyable hour of television that I really enjoy. I do realize they could have used a better transition after On The Head Of A Pin, but that's not this episode's fault that TPTB hadn't mapped it out better, IMO.

I have to disagree, though. I don't think there could have been anything other than this episode to follow up On the Head of a Pin adequately. They needed this complete derail from the story, imo, to break things up and give us a breather from all the drama. Cause it's pretty icky from here on out til the end and there was so much heaviness in the last few eps too.

[DittyDotDot]

My comment was mostly in response to some discussion that had been going on surrounding this episode in the Survivor Game thread around that time. Some people were saying they hated this episode because there was no real follow through from where we left Dean at the end of On The Head Of A Pin. Personally, I've never had an issue with it because I feel like this episode is dealing with it in a less angsty and mawkish way, but I can understand others perspectives who like the angst and mawk.

[DittyDotDot]

It happens almost every rewatch...somewhere in mid-S4 my attention starts to wane a bit, but this episode got me all happy again. It's amazing how much I could care less about the whole angel/demon pissing match and just needed a good old fashioned ghost hunt to get me interested again. 

I'm back in it now, baby!

[Hanahope]

I thought it was a fun episode.  From seeing Dean be the complete opposite to Sam showing how idiotic so many people are when calling tech support (did you try turning it off and on? I always tell my kids that and it almost always works).  And their watching Ghostfacers who constantly called the Winchesters douchebags, but who taught them something important.  Lol. 

Those leather gloves sure burned fast.

I loved Sam's blow up at the end. I was expecting an applause from his co-workers.  

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

And their watching Ghostfacers who constantly called the Winchesters douchebags, but who taught them something important.  Lol. 

The Ghostfacers bits are hilarious. The whole exchange about it being illegal to desecrate graves in "some" states. Major suckage!! ;)

Seriously one of my all time favorite episodes. 

[Katy M]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:14 PM, DittyDotDot said:

it being illegal to desecrate graves in "some" states.

Possibly all states.

[bettername2come]

Twelve years of unspeakable horror on this show and Dean putting rice milk in his coffee and getting into a Prius is some of the scariest stuff we've seen on this show. Great song in the opening. I'm choosing to believe the Dean Smith name is a shout out to the UNC coach, but I kind of wish now they'd gone Sam Smith for the actress reference instead. Shallow moment: Sam should not wear yellow. I'm amused that even Dean thinks Sam's flirting with him. Why does Sam's drawing ability change as plot dictates? I like that suit and tie Dean is not a jerk. He's nice to Ian when he corrects his work. Their dialogue is very Sam and Dean even when they don't know who they are. I like the reveal that they're in the real world with the Ghostfacers talking about the Winchesters. Ah, haven't we all wanted to quit a job the way Sam does? You know I think Zechariah might be the most consistently written character in the entire Supernatural series. Always a Dean-manipulating douchebag. 

"How'd you know that ghosts are scared of wrenches?"

"Angel or not, I will stab you in your face."

"I only moved here 'cause I broke up with my fiancee Madison, but I called her number and I got a damn animal hospital!" It's so funny and yet so wrong. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Shallow moment: Sam should not wear yellow.

I concur.

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

"I only moved here 'cause I broke up with my fiancee Madison, but I called her number and I got a damn animal hospital!" It's so funny and yet so wrong. 

And strangely S8 foreshadowing?

[DittyDotDot]

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'm choosing to believe the Dean Smith name is a shout out to the UNC coach, but I kind of wish now they'd gone Sam Smith for the actress reference instead.

Heh, that's a good one!

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Twelve years of unspeakable horror on this show and Dean putting rice milk in his coffee and getting into a Prius is some of the scariest stuff we've seen on this show.

I know, right! ;)

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I like the reveal that they're in the real world with the Ghostfacers talking about the Winchesters.

Affirmative. Suckage major! ;)

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

"How'd you know that ghosts are scared of wrenches?"

"Angel or not, I will stab you in your face."

"I only moved here 'cause I broke up with my fiancee Madison, but I called her number and I got a damn animal hospital!" It's so funny and yet so wrong. 

To add to your quotes:

• Look, man. I don't know you, 'kay? But I'm going to do you a public service and let you know that- that you over-share.
• We do what I do best, Sammy. Research.
• Details are everything. You don't wanna go fighting ghosts without any health insurance.

[catrox14]

Apropos of nothing, but I have a weird thing for just how specifically Dean/Jensen says the word "ghosts". He makes sure that the "t" and "s" are enunciated clearly. It's not just a one time thing with Dean Smith. It's consistent throughout the show. I noticed it again when I was watching Long Distance Call when Dean has to say "ghosts" like twice in a row. 

I don't know if that's a Jensen thing or Jensen giving Dean that little consistent character beat but either way, I love it. I just find it so amusing that fastidious Dean Smith and rough and tumble Dean Winchester are particular about enunciating that word. Just an interesting observation in an..observationally interesting way. 

[bethy]

I haven't seen this one in a while, but I also really enjoyed it. 

I know for me Jared's acting is generally overshadowed by Jensen's, but I think he does such a good job in this episode as being not-Sam (he usually shines for me when he's not being Sam). His patient, but totally bored tech guy - in khaki pants and a polo shirt, no less - was great: "Did you try turning it off and back on? No, no problem, I'll wait. It's working? Good," while he listlessly doodled monsters on the pad was perfect. Plus, weirdly, I'm sure, I felt like his relationship with those other tech guys was really natural and easy. And then his expression in the elevator, holding that phone, with blood spattered all over his face? So good. 

And, just because I can't leave off Jensen, I loved his lighter tone playing Dean Smith and his saying "Right?" about things was so not-Dean, but very - in my mind - yuppy, 30yo business guy. 

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

"How'd you know that ghosts are scared of wrenches?"

Possibly one of my favorite lines in the series.

Edited June 27, 2017 by bethy

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Apropos of nothing, but I have a weird thing for just how specifically Dean/Jensen says the word "ghosts". He makes sure that the "t" and "s" are enunciated clearly. It's not just a one time thing with Dean Smith. It's consistent throughout the show. I noticed it again when I was watching Long Distance Call when Dean has to say "ghosts" like twice in a row. 

I don't know if that's a Jensen thing or Jensen giving Dean that little consistent character beat but either way, I love it. I just find it so amusing that fastidious Dean Smith and rough and tumble Dean Winchester are particular about enunciating that word. Just an interesting observation in an..observationally interesting way. 

Are you a Stephen King fan? I don't know if he thought it up, or if it's a known thing he just appropriated for the story, but in "It", there is a phrase that one of the boys uses as therapy for a speech impediment: He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts. 

Maybe Jensen learned this precise way of enunciating the sts sound in acting/elocution lessons? 

[catrox14]

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe Jensen learned this precise way of enunciating the sts sound in acting/elocution lessons?

I have never read "It". 

I know actors take elocution lessons so sure that might be part of it.

I think I've heard Jensen says "ghosts" in conventions or what have you but I can't remember if he said it as precisely as he does in the show. Like I said it could just be Jensen like you said, but I kind of hope it's not.  I guess I just like to think Jensen intentionally peppers in these things about Dean just because he wants to do it.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Apparently, I am still splashing around in the shallow end:  While the yellow polo isn't Sam's best look, those khaki pants sure are nice.  

Dean on the Master Cleanse ("cleans you out like nobody's business") - talk about a line that's funny and yet so wrong.  

"Fight well, young lions."  "Godspeed."

I'd forgotten that 'Dean Smith's' family was Bob, Ellen, and Jo.

Interesting how the colors went from very saturated and vibrant to more muted when Zachariah touched Dean's forehead.  Zach turned out to be just another dick angel, but I kind of liked him in this ep.  

[Iju]

aw dean called him sammy by accident :')

and dean's reaction when sam kicked the door open: "Woah..." LMAOOO

i had a bit of a small pouty rant because of dean's job placement compared to sam's. sam is basically a loser with his position and i wasn't happy about that at all, sam is not a loser! he is very capable of perhaps not reaching dean's position but definitely being higher than a cubicle job. ew. my mother pointed out that sam's job makes sense since he is helping people, and that's what he does best. i conceded, but at least make the man a firefighter, policeman, something that is worth his character. well at least he wasn't a fast food employee. i would have thrown chairs.

that beside, i liked this episode. i loved that in the end, it wasn't some random filler episode and was directly because of the last episode. when zach introduced himself and told dean that they did nothing to make dean come to the decision he did. i could imagine the angels losing their shxt when dean said "Pick someone else..." he really had lost everything in that moment, so they had to rush and make a way for him to know he was meant for this mission. very Christian-y if you ask me. 

but i wonder...this was the work of angels. and yet dean and sam still found ways to slightly recognize each other as brothers. was their bond that strong they could overcome the work of angels, or were the angels not going all out with their strength?

(shh, i know i'm thinking too much into this, just let me believe their bond is that strong :P)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Iju said:

i had a bit of a small pouty rant because of dean's job placement compared to sam's. sam is basically a loser with his position and i wasn't happy about that at all, sam is not a loser

Why is tech support a loser job?

1 hour ago, Iju said:

well at least he wasn't a fast food employee.

And there is nothing wrong with fast food work.  Sam could have started out flipping burgers and progressed to manager and owning his own franchise. 

[Iju]

25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why is tech support a loser job?

And there is nothing wrong with fast food work.  Sam could have started out flipping burgers and progressed to manager and owning his own franchise. 

i don't know what he was exactly, he was just an answering man at a desk with a lot of other unimpressive people.

as for the second comment, i said before talking with my mother that that's how sam would earn his way to the top, but i don't find it fair that dean was already near the top and sam was at the beginning of his climb.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Iju

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Iju said:

i don't know what he was exactly, he was just an answering man at a desk with a lot of other unimpressive people.

He actually was doing tech support. He was helping people with their computers, printers etc.  Sam actually answered the phone saying "Tech support" IIRC".  And I'm not sure how you can say they are "unimpressive' people. It's a good job, that requires communication skills, patience, breadth and depth of knowledge, and the ability to communicate technical things to people who have no technical expertise. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Iju said:

but i don't find it fair that dean was already near the top and sam was at the beginning of his climb.

Dean Smith had either gotten an education OR he worked within the company likely starting out in Sales and/or Marketing and did well enough to advance to Director of Sales and Marketing.  Sam was in a technical role with  room to advance.

In the real world, Sam is the one that went to college and would have become an attorney if not for Jessica's death.  Dean is more "technical"/"tactical" in the hunter world.  To me it was more a role reversal type thing. Nothing unfair to either one.

[Iju]

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean Smith had either gotten an education OR he worked within the company likely starting out in Sales and/or Marketing and did well enough to advance to Director of Sales and Marketing.  Sam was in a technical role with  room to advance.

In the real world, Sam is the one that went to college and would have become an attorney if not for Jessica's death.  Dean is more "technical"/"tactical" in the hunter world.  To me it was more a role reversal type thing. Nothing unfair to either one.

exactly, and that is what i pointed out with my mother as well. sam was going to be a freaking lawyer, and he was already at the top of his class to go. and they they make him sitting at a desk answering phones...that just didn't connect with me. as a matter of fact i think that was the point of the episode because they kept proving how mundane and very un-sam it was, the reshowing of the printer, the pencil sharpener and the picking up of the phone.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Iju

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, Iju said:

i had a bit of a small pouty rant because of dean's job placement compared to sam's. sam is basically a loser with his position and i wasn't happy about that at all, sam is not a loser! he is very capable of perhaps not reaching dean's position but definitely being higher than a cubicle job. ew. my mother pointed out that sam's job makes sense since he is helping people, and that's what he does best. i conceded, but at least make the man a firefighter, policeman, something that is worth his character. well at least he wasn't a fast food employee. i would have thrown chairs.

that beside, i liked this episode. i loved that in th

The angels don't like Sam, so it makes sense that they put him in the lower position. And, being a firefighter, or policeman, wouldn't have made sense, because Sam and Dean had to be working in the same building.  The one with the haunting.

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, Iju said:

i had a bit of a small pouty rant because of dean's job placement compared to sam's. sam is basically a loser with his position and i wasn't happy about that at all, sam is not a loser! he is very capable of perhaps not reaching dean's position but definitely being higher than a cubicle job. ew. my mother pointed out that sam's job makes sense since he is helping people, and that's what he does best. i conceded, but at least make the man a firefighter, policeman, something that is worth his character. well at least he wasn't a fast food employee. i would have thrown chairs.

I don't think Dean's job was really any better than Sam's. They were both repetitive and boring corporate jobs. Sam's was tech support where he answered the same questions everyday and Dean's was sitting behind a desk, alone, filing out paperwork everyday. I think they purposely put them in jobs that would make sure they both were unsatisfied in some way so they would start questioning what was going on around them as a way to engage themselves in the hunt. Basically, the angels stacked the deck to make sure they got the outcome they wanted. But, I wouldn't say that Sam was in a "loser" job. At least he had a job.

Edited March 25, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Jeddah]

It’s a big pet peeve of mine when people look down on other people’s jobs, or think someone isn’t smart or motivated because of their job. There’s nothing wrong with having a job in a cubicle or a fast food restaurant.

I eat fast food a lot, so I’m definitely glad there are people who do those jobs! And I’ve definitely had to call tech support many times.

[catrox14]

7 hours ago, Iju said:

exactly, and that is what i pointed out with my mother as well. sam was going to be a freaking lawyer, and he was already at the top of his class to go. and they they make him sitting at a desk answering phones...that just didn't connect with me. as a matter of fact i think that was the point of the episode because they kept proving how mundane and very un-sam it was, the reshowing of the printer, the pencil sharpener and the picking up of the phone.

The point was that they put them in jobs neither  would be satisfied with so they would go back to hunting. Zachariah wasn't punishing them by giving them what most people in the real world,would consider good  jobs. He put them  jobs that didn't make them happy.

it does make me wonder though, if Sam really would have been a good lawyer. Maybe he was only doing it for  the money and prestige. Maybe he would have been just as unhappy being a lawyer in that world. Again ther I nothing unfair about Sam being in tech support, unless you think tech support is a lowly job which it's really not.

[sarthaz]

I'll pile on with everyone else. Dean may have made more money, but his job wasn't any better.

"I see big things in your future -- maybe even Senior VP Eastern Great Lakes Division. Don't get me wrong -- you'll have to work for it -- seven days a week, lunch at your desk, but in 8 to 10 short years, that could be you!"

I'd rather work in tech support.

[sarthaz]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

it does make me wonder though, if Sam really would have been a good lawyer. Maybe he was only doing it for  the money and prestige. Maybe he would have been just as unhappy being a lawyer in that world. Again ther I nothing unfair about Sam being in tech support, unless you think tech support is a lowly job which it's really not.

Sam's a genius with research, which is basically what most lawyers do. I think he'd have been great at it -- as long as Dean didn't come looking for him, and Jessica wasn't killed.  Once he started touring the country hunting monsters with Dean, he could never find fulfillment in another life. From "Wishful Thinking": "It's too late to go back to our old lives, Dean. I'm not that guy anymore."  But I believe, in a world where John and Dean were monster hunters and Sam's life hadn't gotten derailed by circumstance, he would have been happy doing his own thing.

[Iju]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

The angels don't like Sam, so it makes sense that they put him in the lower position. And, being a firefighter, or policeman, wouldn't have made sense, because Sam and Dean had to be working in the same building.  The one with the haunting.

it was just a thought, i don't think that they actually should have done it (although he could have a been a policeman who watched the building, that would have been interesting), i was just throwing different universe ideas out there.

4 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think Dean's job was really any better than Sam's. They were both repetitive and boring corporate jobs. Sam's was tech support where he answered the same questions everyday and Dean's was sitting behind a desk, alone, filing out paperwork everyday. I think they purposely put them in jobs that would make sure they both were unsatisfied in some way so they would start questioning what was going on around them as a way to engage themselves in the hunt. Basically, the angels stacked the deck to make sure they got the outcome they wanted. But, I wouldn't say that Sam was in a "loser" job. At least he had a job.

you're misunderstanding me. it's not about who's job is better or worse, i don't think sam fit that job as his personality. dean's job fit his character, not sam's. that's my opinion. if sam was placed in a different footing in the building he still would have been unsatisfied, just like dean. that wasn't my point, making them happy about their jobs. for example, if sam had dean's job, i still would have said something because that's not according to his character.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

The point was that they put them in jobs neither  would be satisfied with so they would go back to hunting. Zachariah wasn't punishing them by giving them what most people in the real world,would consider good  jobs. He put them  jobs that didn't make them happy.

it does make me wonder though, if Sam really would have been a good lawyer. Maybe he was only doing it for  the money and prestige. Maybe he would have been just as unhappy being a lawyer in that world. Again ther I nothing unfair about Sam being in tech support, unless you think tech support is a lowly job which it's really not.

...who say anything about punishing? o.o

i wasn't even blaming the angel, i was blaming the writers. in this sense, nothing is wrong with sam's job by itself by being a "loser job", it's just how the show portrayed it (the mundane sharpening of the pencil, the printing papers, etc). but then again as @Katy M said the angels weren't too hot on giving a job he deserved, which makes total sense. 

39 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

Sam's a genius with research, which is basically what most lawyers do. I think he'd have been great at it -- as long as Dean didn't come looking for him, and Jessica wasn't killed.  Once he started touring the country hunting monsters with Dean, he could never find fulfillment in another life. From "Wishful Thinking": "It's too late to go back to our old lives, Dean. I'm not that guy anymore."  But I believe, in a world where John and Dean were monster hunters and Sam's life hadn't gotten derailed by circumstance, he would have been happy doing his own thing.

even if jessica wasn't killed, he still would have had the visions, just like his kind. they all had normal lives but they were changed because of their powers. eventually he would have seen how they connected to something he saw in the news.

it slightly reminds me of what i saw in the anime last night (ep 7 i believe). there was a case near stanford and john and dean worked quietly without sam's knowledge, but in the end sam got on the case all by himself, even before he knew jessica was in danger .

but it does make you think. as for me, i know for sure sam would have been a kickass lawyer, one of the best in the country. and i know that in the midst of their hunting, dean and john would be proud of him.

[DittyDotDot]

52 minutes ago, Iju said:

you're misunderstanding me. it's not about who's job is better or worse, i don't think sam fit that job as his personality. dean's job fit his character, not sam's. that's my opinion. if sam was placed in a different footing in the building he still would have been unsatisfied, just like dean. that wasn't my point, making them happy about their jobs. for example, if sam had dean's job, i still would have said something because that's not according to his character.

It was you who said Sam had the loser job, so I think there was an element of whose job was better or worse for you, but I don't think I am misunderstanding you. I just happen to disagree that Dean's job fit his personality any more than Sam's fit his. And, IMO, that was the point; they weren't supposed to fit their personalities.

TBH, I think Dean would've been more satisfied in tech support where there were people to interact with and he was part of a team instead of being stuck behind a desk by himself all day. And, I think Dean would've found worth in helping people with their technical problems even if their technical problems weren't all that difficult since a big part of Dean's personality is his need to help people. That's not to say they both would've been totally satisfied if their jobs were reversed, but IMO, the angels put them both in positions that would ensure they would find their way out of those jobs and back to hunting which is what the angels wanted. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Iju]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

It was you who said Sam had the loser job, so I think there was an element of whose job was better or worse for you, but I don't think I am misunderstanding you. I just happen to disagree that Dean's job fit his personality any more than Sam's fit his. And, IMO, that was the point; they weren't supposed to fit their personalities.

TBH, I think Dean would've been more satisfied in tech support where there were people to interact with and he was part of a team instead of being stuck behind a desk by himself all day. And, I think Dean would've found worth in helping people with their technical problems even if their technical problems weren't all that difficult since a big part of Dean's personality is his need to help people. That's not to say they both would've been totally satisfied if their jobs were reversed, but IMO, the angels put them both in positions that would ensure they would find their way out of those jobs and back to hunting which is what the angels wanted. 

 

"loser" as in how the show portrayed it as, as i said before. it's not automatically a loser job because it's tech support. besides nobody in the whole office looked like they enjoyed their job, at least dean showed some sign of interest.

and as katy said that it would have made sense for sam to be given that job since they don't like him so i am totally fine with that explaination. i thought the writers were genuinely giving that job to sam because they thought it was fitting for him which is a fault on my part, so with that i leave it at a rest.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Iju

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Iju said:

...who say anything about punishing? o.o

i wasn't even blaming the angel, i was blaming the writers. in this sense, nothing is wrong with sam's job by itself by being a "loser job", it's just how the show

The show never made it seem like a loser job. It was the show saying that a desk job for either Sam or Dean was never going to fulfill their real lives.  Sam's workmate seemed happy to be working in support. He was maybe not that happy with the company but they seemed to enjoy the work itself.

They all were until the ghost turned them into drones.

1 hour ago, Iju said:

"loser" as in how the show portrayed it as, as i said before. it's not automatically a loser job because it's tech support. besides nobody in the whole office looked like they enjoyed their job, at least dean showed some sign of interest.

Edited March 25, 2018 by catrox14

[Iju]

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

The show never made it seem like a loser job. It was the show saying that a desk job for either Sam or Dean was never going to fulfill their real lives.  Sam's workmate seemed happy to be working in support. He was maybe not that happy with the company but they seemed to enjoy the work itself.

 

well i like to believe what katy said tbh lol, but to each their own.

[gonzosgirrl]

On 3/25/2018 at 1:33 PM, Iju said:

you're misunderstanding me. it's not about who's job is better or worse, i don't think sam fit that job as his personality. dean's job fit his character, not sam's. that's my opinion. if sam was placed in a different footing in the building he still would have been unsatisfied, just like dean. that wasn't my point, making them happy about their jobs. for example, if sam had dean's job, i still would have said something because that's not according to his character.

So do you think it would've been more 'in character' if Sam had been the successful executive and Dean the 'lowly' tech guy? Or maybe, say a janitor, or maintenance man?

[trxr4kids]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So do you think it would've been more 'in character' if Sam had been the successful executive and Dean the 'lowly' tech guy? Or maybe, say a janitor, or maintenance man?

That's the problem with about 80% of fanfics. : (

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

That's the problem with about 80% of fanfics. : (

Seriously.

[Iju]

10 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So do you think it would've been more 'in character' if Sam had been the successful executive and Dean the 'lowly' tech guy? Or maybe, say a janitor, or maintenance man?

....i just said if sam was successful like in dean's situation i would have said something because it's not a sort of job he would do. sam could have at least been the "manager" of the cublicle office. i really don't understand my complaining about sam's situation mean dean's situation has to change.

in all honesty, it doesn't even matter anymore. i was satisfied katy's reply and left it at that.

[Jeddah]

The only unfairness I see is that Dean got to have the same name as the greatest basketball coach of all time! And he got a kickass Gordon Gekko montage set to a Kinks song! That’s not fair.

(For the record, I’m being facetious. I’m not one who thinks the writers are biased either way. But I am being serious about Dean Smith being the greatest coach of all time! That’s totally true.)

[DittyDotDot]

12 hours ago, Iju said:

....i just said if sam was successful like in dean's situation

What makes you think Sam wasn't successful in his situation? Didn't seem to me he was unsuccessful. He didn't get a memo from the ghost. It seems to me he was unsatisfied with the job--just as Dean was in his job--but that doesn't mean he was unsuccessful. Success isn't determined by whether you have an office or not.

 

ETA: It seems clear you think tech support is a lowly job that's beneath Sam--which you're entitled to your opinion; I'm of the opinion that there are no lowly jobs, just lowly employees--but have you considered some of your fellow posters may work in tech support? Just something to consider.

Edited March 28, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[sarthaz]

4 hours ago, Jeddah said:

The only unfairness I see is that Dean got to have the same name as the greatest basketball coach of all time! And he got a kickass Gordon Gekko montage set to a Kinks song! That’s not fair.

(For the record, I’m being facetious. I’m not one who thinks the writers are biased either way. But I am being serious about Dean Smith being the greatest coach of all time! That’s totally true.)

Couldn't really be Sam Smith and Dean Wesson, now could it?

[Jeddah]

3 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

Couldn't really be Sam Smith and Dean Wesson, now could it?

They could have! This show does love being meta!

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jeddah

[Iju]

6 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

What makes you think Sam wasn't successful in his situation? Didn't seem to me he was unsuccessful. He didn't get a memo from the ghost. It seems to me he was unsatisfied with the job--just as Dean was in his job--but that doesn't mean he was unsuccessful. Success isn't determined by whether you have an office or not.

 

ETA: It seems clear you think tech support is a lowly job that's beneath Sam--which you're entitled to your opinion; I'm of the opinion that there are no lowly jobs, just lowly employees--but have you considered some of your fellow posters may work in tech support? Just something to consider.

i just said in my opinion i wasn't what i thought sam deserved and i really don't get why we are going in loops here when i have said multiple times i'm leaving this whole business to a rest. i'm even using the word loser anymore, i changed what i said.

[DeeDee79]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, trxr4kids said:

That's the problem with about 80% of fanfics. : (

Understatement! 

[The Companion]

On 3/28/2018 at 7:18 AM, Jeddah said:

The only unfairness I see is that Dean got to have the same name as the greatest basketball coach of all time! And he got a kickass Gordon Gekko montage set to a Kinks song! That’s not fair.

(For the record, I’m being facetious. I’m not one who thinks the writers are biased either way. But I am being serious about Dean Smith being the greatest coach of all time! That’s totally true.)

Truth!

As a Tar Heel, I thought I misread it at first. Lol.

I can't really contribute anything new to this thread. I loved this episode. It was hilarious and gory/gross and amazing. The deaths were horrifying. I can't with the microwaved head or the elevator. I loved the placement of this, personally. I think I needed some lightness and I needed the brothers working together for an episode. 

[rhofmovalley]

Smith and Wesson - gun manufacturer. Winchester -gun manufacturer.

Jensen looked great in the suspenders and striped dress shirt.