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S01.E01: Heaven's Half Hour

AimingforYoko

By AimingforYoko
in Daredevil: Born Again

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dwmarch

dwmarch

That was quite an intense beginning. Great episode overall, although I don't love what happened to Foggy.

I don't remember, did the Netflix shows have hard cussing? I feel like Netflix would allow shit and anything less but I heard at least a couple of fucks in this episode.

For saying they weren't going to feel particularly bound by the continuity of the Netflix series, they certainly paid tribute to it enough times. We had mentions of Hogarth, Kingpin's head squishing adventure, Matt's fling with Karen and I'm sure a few others I missed. Did we even get the same lady back at the bar?

The only thing I absolutely refuse to accept is that silly bit with the fly getting impaled by the paperclip. You can't fling a paperclip like it's a hatchet and pin something to the wall with it. I don't care how good you were at baseball when you were a kid.

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

Mayor Fisk seems like an analog for someone, any ideas on who?

I really thought he was going to say he was going to make New York great again (especially since we had the Make America Skate Again reference in Echo).

Edit: another nice bit I thought of, spoiler coded if you haven't seen Echo:

Spoiler

Matt mentioning that someone can be changed by the touch of the divine. That's basically what happened to Fisk. Echo kind of cured him (although we can be sure it didn't fully take). They weren't super clear about it in that show but Vanessa fills in some of the blanks. Fisk was gone for months and she had to figure out how to run his empire in the meantime.

I also liked that there was a tracksuit mafia guy there, in a really Gucci tracksuit. That must have been Vanessa's doing.

  • Like 3
Raja

Raja

11 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I don't remember, did the Netflix shows have hard cussing? I feel like Netflix would allow shit and anything less but I heard at least a couple of fucks in this episode.

A quick Google search has the AI suggesting they did. But I don't remember it either.

4 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

The only thing I absolutely refuse to accept is that silly bit with the fly getting impaled by the paperclip. You can't fling a paperclip like it's a hatchet and pin something to the wall with it. I don't care how good you were at baseball when you were a kid.

I wonder if it came from the comics or just a direct rip from Colin Farrell's Bullseye in the movie?

6 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

For saying they weren't going to feel particularly bound by the continuity of the Netflix series, they certainly paid tribute to it enough times. We had mentions of Hogarth, Kingpin's head squishing adventure, Matt's fling with Karen and I'm sure a few others I missed. Did we even get the same lady back at the bar?

I thought that during the strike when the reboot came, they said directly that the Netflix, The Defenders Saga was now canon. That Matt now had the only Spider-Man, who also got a Fisk mention, could come up on his left aerial skills as displayed on She-Hulk being the biggest change

 

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

Damn. Foggy didn't even last 15 minutes. That was quite an opening.

With the long build up and speculation I guess we all expected it. A big part of the re-shoots to add the 3 Netflix veterans. Even with a super metal, but not vibranium or adamantium as Netflix didn't have the rights to use them, Dex getting up from the dead was my unbelievable moment. Wolverine Bullseye is not. With Karen in San Fransico to join Ant-Man and Shang Chi you can almost call it the MCU Second City.

22 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I also liked that there was a tracksuit mafia guy there, in a really Gucci tracksuit. That must have been Vanessa's doing.

It was defiantly an upgrade from Christmas against Hawkeye

thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

At long last, the OG that kicked off the Marvel Netflix era is back front and center!  Sure, he's been popping up in other places from time to time, but it just feels right to see the Daredevil name on a show title again!

I mainly tried to avoid spoilers, but I heard the rumors/speculation about Foggy's untimely exit, so it didn't surprise me.  Still, damn.  They basically gave him Elektra's death from the comics/Affleck film and had Bullseye take him out.  The Avocados at Law are no more!  Do hope we at least get a few flashbacks or something.  Either way, if this is it, I'll miss seeing Elden Henson in this role.

At least Karen is still alive, but it looks like she's moved to San Fransisco, so I'm guessing this means we won't be seeing her in every episode.  Hope we at least a couple more because the more Deborah Ann Woll, the better in my opinion!

Bullseye doesn't know how lucky he is.  Forget surviving the fall: had he killed Karen as well, not only would he have had to contend with an even more unhinged Daredevil, but he'd also would have to deal with the hate he'd get for being the face of another case of Marvel fringing a woman to make their hero suffer.  And then when Frank Castle discovers the news, ooh boy!

Yeah, show really isn't being subtle with who they are referencing with Wilson Fisk and him becoming the new mayor.  I mean, sure, there are other cases of convicted criminals becoming politicians, but well....

Was surprised that Ayelet Zurer is back as Vanessa.  Remembering hearing the character was recast at one point, but that must have been before the failed pilot, delays, and reshoots.

BB Ulrich is still around, I see.

Always great seeing Clark Johnson a.k.a. Lewis from Homicide: Life on the Street and Gus from The Wire!

Not sure what to make of Matt's new love interest yet, but Margarita Levieva is always welcomed!

Not surprised by Fisk's anti-vigilante mandate, but as I'm just going to enjoy finding how they avoid Spider-Man being mentioned or a target.

The best scene was obviously Matt and Fisk's little conversation at the diner.  Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio just know how to bring it whenever they are together!

I wonder how long Matt will hold off on suiting back up! 

Edited by thuganomics85
  • Like 2
mledawn

mledawn

I was unspoiled so Foggy's demise hit hard. I hope there's more Karen because DAW is fantastic and of course I hope more Karen means Frank Castle.

The fight sequence took me out several times. I repeatedly said "Is he Batman now?" and also the effects weren't blended well so some of the clearly CGI stuff was clearly CGI. I didn't have that impression in the first Netflix Daredevil so that was a bit disappointing.

I know there are other political paralells but Fisk is definitely giving Doug Ford vibes...

  • Like 1
Affogato

Affogato

(edited)

Not that anyone has to care, of course, but I had legal free access to Disney for a while and I no longer do have access. I have to decide if this is something I will pay to watch. 
 

When I had access, after that initial rush of things to watch that I’d missed ( and the simpsons can be watched endlessly) I did not find that Disney had a compelling lineup. 
 

i loved the Netflix Daredevil, but my general feeling about the comics guy is mixed. Elektra and Fisk get boring. I can do with smaller portions of the Punisher than I’m likely to get in the show.  I really liked the relationships in the Netflix show and to some extent the hyperlocal street level stuff. 

i dod expect Foggy and Karen would be a smaller part of the show. (As an aside if she comes back an addict I will be pissed). Foggy dying makes sense, since we knew they left the middle episodes the same. 
 

still, do I want to watch a show about this character I learned to care about without the people that ground him? I don’t know. I’m sure it is a good show and I’m sure the tension between Fisk and Matt, which they have emphasized, is well done. I’m still not sure I will watch it. 
 

 

Edited by Affogato
Raja

Raja

(edited)
10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Bullseye doesn't know how lucky he is.  Forget surviving the fall: had he killed Karen as well, not only would he have had to contend with an even more unhinged Daredevil, but he'd also would have to deal with the hate he'd get for being the face of another case of Marvel fringing a woman to make their hero suffer.  And then when Frank Castle discovers the news, ooh boy!

Daredevil tried to kill Dex already and, in his guilt, retired for a year. A crazy man can do anything and we really can't do anything to hurt them. A supermax prison, maybe the Raft as New York sent Hellcat there (in one of those few movie crossovers beyond "the incident" with his hands bound to protect the CO's, or US Navy Masters at Arms is the rest of his life. 

4 hours ago, mledawn said:

I was unspoiled so Foggy's demise hit hard. I hope there's more Karen because DAW is fantastic and of course I hope more Karen means Frank Castle.

They did miss not telling the scene telling us if they were Blipped like Peter Parker or not like we were told about Matt and Fisk in Echo. I am guessing we don't hear about Foggy again. I doubt if we get much of Karen as it is rumored the story didn't have them at all. Just with other failures of Disney+ we got the highly promoted Bullseye reshoots being what not just the nerd class, but the Entertainment Tonight and Today show class of media showed us.

.

Edited by Raja
Orbert

Orbert

I'd heard about the reshoots specifically to bring Karen and Foggy back, but since the series was already well developed, shoehorning Karen and Foggy into everything would have been ridiculous.  And once I started watching, I forgot all that anyway, and I was unspoiled regarding Foggy, so it was appropriately shocking, Karen's reaction seemed in character, and now we can proceed with the series as originally planned.  I'll miss "N, M, & P" but this is a new show, a sequel to the old one, or something.  Heck of a first episode; it set the stage well.  I was surprised at how much ground it actually covered, but it was nearly an hour without credits.  New firm, new love interest, new mayor.  I thought about watching Ep 2, but decided to hold off and digest this one a bit first.

  • Like 1
Raja

Raja

9 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

I sympathize with upset fans but Foggy's whole deal has always been "Matt don't be Daredevil again or we won't be friends anymore". Basically the funkiller. Unless he had an uncharacteristic change of heart he was never going to make it!

Seeing how he Daredevil broke away due to Dex's diversionary call to Foggy I think the two were at peace with the She-Hulk era Matt's other work. But then it doesn't track after all the talk about the Hell's Kitchen gentrification Daredevil retiring for a year that an increase in crime was at least partially responsible for a re call of the mayor.

Diapason Untuned

Diapason Untuned

That Foggy death scene, Matt and Dex fighting while Matt is listening out for Foggy's heartbeat and then immediately trying to kill Dex when Foggy flatlined, only for him to still live...Yeah, I can understand why Matt basically retooled his life after this, the guilt must be eating him up from the inside both ways.

I like Kirsten and Cherry though I do wish they had gotten Brett to take Cherry's role with figuring out Matt's identity and working him, considering their relationship throughout the series.

Man, I remember the times when Fisk actually getting elected to any kind of public office after all his crimes would have seemed insane. What halycon days.

I liked the callback to Echo. Fisk is still shameless, though Matt must have had fun calling him on the shot to the head 😀

I wonder if BB already knows about Fisk killing Ben or if she's gonna find that out later?

  • Like 3
Raja

Raja

3 minutes ago, Diapason Untuned said:

I like Kirsten and Cherry though I do wish they had gotten Brett to take Cherry's role with figuring out Matt's identity and working him, considering their relationship throughout the series.

With the original everybody but Charlie Cox and Vincint D'Onofrio being new, including the recasting Vannesa plan I guess Royce Johnson was left in the hole. However we now have a possible senior NYPD supervisor available for other uses beyond private investigator with Jessica Jones on the bench for future use. 

lovett1979

lovett1979

RIP Foggy

I had heard the rumors but didn't think it would come so early. And it's so sad because Elden Henson was looking the best he ever has on this show.

That whole opening sequence was a confusing whirlwind. We were introduced to characters but with absolutely no exposition. Ok, Nikki M James (who must have been filming this show while rehearsing and performing in the Broadway show Suffs at the same time) is a lawyer Foggy is flirting with. The lady pirate from Our Flag Means Death is there and seems to be a cop, talking to an old guy I don't know who I also assumed was a cop but now we know is an investigator? (also Matt and Karen's clunky exposition about the "friend rules", even though there would be no reason to assume they are otherwise at this point)

Then Foggy gets a phone call, says he hid the threats their client was getting from Matt so he wouldn't "go Daredevil" but Matt now does, leaves (showcasing a Spiderman-like swinging ability never shown on the old show, and that looks like horribly fake CGI), comes back, Foggy gets shot, Matt has a crazy fight with Bullseye (who is just attacking anyone in his path), throws him off a roof (did he think he was killing him at that point? that seems like a huge change in ethics for him if so), and then is caught without his mask by that old cop/investigator guy who doesn't seem that phased by this revelation that Matt is Daredevil.

It was a LOT.

But maybe this was all just re-shoots to get the original folks on the show, for at least a little? I don't know. The whole thing turned me off. But the rest of the episode was ok.

  • Like 2
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Fucking hell, what a way to start the show. I have been avoiding spoilers and speculation but I did not see Foggy being killed like that, especially so quickly into the episode. One of my favorite things about the original show was the dynamic between Matt/Foggy/Karen so I cant lie about this making me less excited about the show, but they are certainly coming in hot on showing us that this isn't going to be like the Netflix show. Foggys dead, Karen moved away and she and Matt are estranged, Jose's was destroyed (probably), Matt is so heartbroken that he gives up being Daredevil, they really are telling us in no uncertain terms that this show is going to be even darker than what came before and that all of that is over. 

Its not bad enough that Dex killed Foggy and those people in the bar, he shot Foggy in the chest instead of the head so that Matt would hear his heart beat fading as he slowly died. No wonder Matt almost killed him. 

They showed real restraint in not having Fisk just straight up say that he will make New York City great again while starring at the camera, just in case a few people in the audience didn't get it. My favorite scene was definitely Matt and Fisk meeting in the diner, the actors have really stepped into these roles easily even after not acting alongside each other in years. 

A lot of call backs and shout outs to the great MCU and the Netflix era, I especially enjoyed Matt snarking about how the person who Fisk mentors (Echo) shot him in the head. 

  • Like 1
Raja

Raja

(edited)
1 hour ago, lovett1979 said:

The lady pirate from Our Flag Means Death is there and seems to be a cop, talking to an old guy I don't know who I also assumed was a cop but now we know is an investigator?

Since they were not bringing anybody but Vincent D'Onfrio back we didn't have their cop friend Sergeant Mahoney. The actor probably didn't come back for on scene like Elden Henson took a couple of days for the team. So we have another cop, Cherry, retiring and his partner. After the one year jump he is a PI for the new law firm. I guess he can go back to his last partner for a favor in later episodes 

1 hour ago, lovett1979 said:

Matt has a crazy fight with Bullseye (who is just attacking anyone in his path), throws him off a roof (did he think he was killing him at that point? that seems like a huge change in ethics for him if so), and then is caught without his mask by that old cop/investigator guy who doesn't seem that phased by this revelation that Matt is Daredevil.

I think he absolutely thought that out of instant revenge he had murdered and quit his vigilante mission on the spot. That Cherry was the latest to find out the secret of the Devil's true identity was in that situation after a mass murder by Bullseye not the biggest thing at the moment. Cop brain told him to hide Matt off screen.

1 hour ago, lovett1979 said:

But maybe this was all just re-shoots to get the original folks on the show, for at least a little? I don't know. The whole thing turned me off. But the rest of the episode was ok.

That was what it absolutely was going along with the story that the original show runners would not have Matt in his armor for the first 6 episodes as if they were going for cheap like the Buck, the Iron Fist and Inhumans show runner failed.  They got themselves relieved of duty during the Hollywood strikes.

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

A lot of call backs and shout outs to the great MCU and the Netflix era, I especially enjoyed Matt snarking about how the person who Fisk mentors (Echo) shot him in the head. 

Assuming that many saw the Netflix series but not the Disney+ shows I would saw like  Wandavision's end was important to understand Dr Strange. You need to know at least what happened in the last episodes of Hawkeye and Echo to make sense of the Kingpin.

 

Edited by Raja
Ottis

Ottis

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I wonder how long Matt will hold off on suiting back up! 

This whole plot line trope  is annoying. We don't watch the show to never see DD. You know DD is coming back, get on with it.

And honestly, Matt's year-long pity party helped give Fisk an opening. Way to go, Matt. 

Matt also seemed to poorly handle his relationship with Karen.

So I'm not especially impressed by this Matt so far. The heart of this show, and of the Netflix show, is DD vs. Fisk. The more of that, the better.

This show sort of picks up on what fascinated me about DD vs Fisk in the Netflix shows: Two titans from hell's Kitchen, who both have a vision for making it better - and the visions are very different. When Kingpin tried to first be legit in the Netflix series I loved it. Yes, he was potentially more violent, but was he more effective than Matt/DD? Then that series decided to make Kingpin into your basic villain and it wasn't as good.

So now we have Fisk claiming, "I'm not that man anymore." Guess we'll see. I hope he really isn't, because I'd love for the "2 visions" struggle to return vs. "good vs bad."

Random observation: Everyone looks smaller physically in this series than they did in the Netflix show. Foggy certainly did, Matt does, even Fisk does (though they tried to explain it). IMO they all need to look bigger than they are.

Random question: Who are all these vigilantes everyone talks about? DD had been out of action. We briefly saw a white-clad "hero" early on, can't remember the name. the show never gives us any evidence that the city is teaming with vigilantes. Are we supposed to assume he means Hawkeye, an Avenger?

Random "Duh:" Vanessa, you need to be a bit more specific than "don't kill him." That leaves Fisk a lot of room to do many nasty things. You should be smarter than that.

 

  • Like 1
baldryanr

baldryanr

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Random question: Who are all these vigilantes everyone talks about? DD had been out of action. We briefly saw a white-clad "hero" early on, can't remember the name. the show never gives us any evidence that the city is teaming with vigilantes. Are we supposed to assume he means Hawkeye, an Avenger?

Well, there is that guy in red and blue who spins webs and was spurned by the public despite being affiliated with the Avengers.  Kate Bishop is also supposed to be running around, and who knows how many of the other Netflix heroes are active.

  • Like 1
Raja

Raja

(edited)
1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

Well, there is that guy in red and blue who spins webs and was spurned by the public despite being affiliated with the Avengers.  Kate Bishop is also supposed to be running around, and who knows how many of the other Netflix heroes are active.

The difference is Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Coleen Wing are not masked and liable to the DA and lawsuits. Peter Parker, Daredevil,  Moonknight and until now White Tiger are sort of unique in the MCU characters we know about 

Edited by Raja
bettername2come

bettername2come

Foggy! I was hoping he might somehow make it, maybe get a soap opera coma. I might have to go watch his episodes in that Mighty Ducks show to remind myself Elden Henson is okay.

It took me way too long to realize that the therapist was a setup and they’d both been tricked because damn Matt does need a therapist.

I’m glad to see Michael Gandolfini is in this.

  • Like 2
Winston Wolfe

Winston Wolfe

On 3/5/2025 at 12:24 AM, thuganomics85 said:

The best scene was obviously Matt and Fisk's little conversation at the diner.  Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio just know how to bring it whenever they are together!

Totally agree. There was definitely mutual respect between the two of them, and strangely, an odd sense of fondness - lots of smiles were exchanged.

Interestingly, I live in the NYC area, and have passed that diner a few dozen times. There's a Fresh Direct warehouse right across the street, and you can actually see one of their delivery trucks parked outside if you look for it. The Diner is located in Tribeca (Downtown Manhattan), not Clinton/Hell's Kitchen, but it was perfect for that scene.

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