S18.E16: The Experts Have Questions

[DrewPaul2010]

14 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

See.  This is why she is single.  If I was dating Michelle, I would have put her in her place in week 2.  I dont allow people to treat me badly.  I dont tolerate any negative behavior.  I'm not saying David is a great catch, but was it so hard for her to treat him like he is human? Who on this thread would tolerate being treated like David? Its her fault why David flirted with Madison.

No he don't get off that easy. If this gives license to cheat then every married couple in the world is entitled to have affairs. Husbands and wives have spells of being furious with each other. Its true in my house hold. The boundaries of not cheating allows reconciliation to occur. When you breach that wall the marriage as in this case, is over. I agree that Michelle was immediately put off by his living situation. It would be a huge concern to me if the woman I married is living at home. My concern would be her ability to adapt to a marriage and becoming a responsible adult who can manage finances.

 

Quote

Allen deserves a metal for holding back.

He demonstrated his unhappiness in a symbolic way. He could have gone ape and I don't know if I could have held it together as well. He did have plenty of warning signs he failed to heed. The first time my 'wife' stayed out to 2 in the morning I'd have the coffee brewing and there would be a come to Jesus meeting then and there. WTF? I'd expect the same if I slide in the same time. That shit doesn't fly in a 39 year marriage certainly not newlyweds.

[DrewPaul2010]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I think it’s more of a punishment for her to have to sit with the notion that she’s the villain in their story and there’s nothing she can do about it. If he goes off on her, she could potentially look like the victim, which she doesn’t deserve. If he forgives her, she gets off easy. If he just doesn’t speak to her again, she knows he thinks she sucks and she has to live with the fact that she’s that sucky person to him.

He should take lessons from Karla how to excoriate someone with smile and a lilt in his voice. I don't think any measure can save Madison's integrity or reputation. She lived a complete lie in front of all these people. I'm not sure about whether contractually he has to appear at the reunion. The most pitiful and irritating scene was Madison feeling so sorry for herself. She felt sorry for herself because her actions made her feel bad. She'll soon rationalize it. I'll eat my hat if David and Madison are together at the reunion show.

 

Quote

They probably have to do the formal “I want a divorce” thing, but even then, in Allen’s shoes I’d be like “I want a divorce, and I’m not interested in anything you have to say,” thank the experts, and leave.

Michelle and Allen had a nice talk. My initial reaction is no freaking way..but the more I think about it maybe there is a possibility. They do have this shared light bulb experience of being on MAFS. Allan is everything David is not. On his own managing his affairs. She knows from observing him if they clicked after a few dates and said he was serious...she'd believe him. I haven't seen the happy fun side of Michelle. She hasn't been dressing or dolling herself up. We've only seen her hard edge. If they do click the show should give them a second honey.  

[Lois Sandborne]

If I had put even a nickel on the odds of Karla being my favorite cast member come Decision Day, I'd be a wealthy woman right now. But here we are.

I loved Emem's letter to that backpack dragging bum. She's been holding back this whole season, going above and beyond, putting up with damaging and humiliating insinuations, insults, and straight up lies about her character. All capped by that stupid stunt with the "divorce" paper. I say let it out, Emem, and good for you.

[TVJunkee]

what baffled me were the dress shirts they showed David carrying in and out on hangers.  Where was he planning to go and we've never seen him in that type of shirt.  So odd.  Plus he sucks.  I felt sorry for him when Michelle was so cruel, but after this he deserved every mean word.   I have hated Madison since the beginning and never thought she was the last bit attractive despite her proclamations of her beauty.   I was also impressed about Allan packing up his spices in a zip lock bag to take home.  

 

[seacliffsal]

What bothered me the most this episode (and there were plenty of things) was how Madison was justifying her cheating and misleading Allen.  She said that she and David were both in bad marriages and consoled each other.  How was her marriage to Allen bad?  No, she wasn't attracted to him after the wedding, but she kept saying her feelings were growing and kept changing him to suit her preferences.  Oh, and the whole hoping the experts would comfort her.  No.  So, no, Madison, there's no way you're a victim.  And her whole 'needing' to tell Allen her perspective/justification so that she can feel better.  Just stop.  Go to David's basement bedroom and go for it.  

Loved how production showed that David and Madison returned to their apartments at the same time on the nights they were out.

Like others, I was impressed with Karla this episode.  Who knew she would be the voice of reason while clearly letting Madison know exactly what she thought of her.  Juan also let David know how wrong his actions were and that his decisions would make things really rough.

I really get the feeling that both David and Madison thought that the others (except Michelle and Allen) would support them and seemed a bit surprised that's not how it turned out.

And, no, just because one has 'emotions' it doesn't mean one has to immediately act on them.  Otherwise, people would be continually lashing out in anger as well as falling in and out of 'love' while hurting others.  It's not just 'love' that is an emotion.  Greed, anger, hate, etc., are also emotions and we don't accept or expect others to immediately act on those emotions.

[JenE4]

Not another ADT commercial! 😅 Good thing we got that ADT system to keep us secure in here! From what? David coming in your room and eating you all up? Allen returning to the home with a weapon and a heart-full of vengeance?

David doesn’t drink coffee—and yet he had a whole backstory of getting coffee with an old Tinder date turned friend! He really is the worst liar. He might as well claim he wasn’t out fucking Madison until 4 am, he was at an all-night salon getting his hair chemically straightened.

Allen putting an accent on “Guhrl, ya luhk so fhyne imma eat ya uhp.” Wow, that was some line reading!

David said he made a taco bet with Madison. And Madison says she likes to eat tacos after sex! There’s the mic drop right there! I do recall Madison claiming she got tacos at like 3 am “with her girlfriends” because Allen was all like, that place is open at 3am?! Tacogate. And now we got the split screen that David also arrived home at the same time as Madison during those three nights in a row she came home in the middle of the night! Ay caramba!

Allen is grabbing fire with his hands?!? Yikes. Just throw out the vows and photos, my dude, before you suffer second degree burns and burn down the whole Sentral apartment complex.

Why does David have one inch of the bottom of his head shaved? Like, I understand a fade halfway up his head or long only at the top, but what purpose does shaving one teensy little strip serve? I mean, we have bigger questions about this man’s life choices. 

OMG. They’re making Emem and Ikeche meet up again?!? Hopefully someone printed out all 4 pages of the divorce paper. “As a parting gift, I have prepared a list of therapists local to you.” I am cackling!

Not David pulling his old “if you don’t believe me, that’s on you” line to the experts! They are not having it.

[JayDub1987]

I've watched this entire season, but hadn't commented yet. 

Thoughts on this whole thing: 
 

-Michelle is materialistic and shallow. 
-David is scummy and has the motivation of a sloth. His comment about staying away from treadmills and only doing arms and shoulders showed me that he cares about looking like he works out because he wants people to notice him. 
-Madison is scummy. 

I will never NOT believe that production didn't tip Michelle off about David/Madison coming home at the same time three straight nights. She wasn't around him enough to get an accurate gauge on how he felt about another woman. 

Allen seems like a solid dude; I hope he finds someone who isn't a raging bitch like Madison. 

[Gator Stud]

14 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

"Why does this bother you?" Why does anyone else's opinion bother you?

Moreover, "[h]uman emotion" does not ever require human action. Plenty of people in history and fiction attest to the possibility and the power of self-restraint no matter if the "human emotion" is love, anger, pity, or any other feeling. 

IOW, Madison and David don't get a "the heart wants what it wants (tm Woody Allen)" pass from me. 

You dont want to blame the people who are really at fault: The Producers.  Why do they force newlyweds couples to live together?  Why do they force the couples to stay together in toxic relationships so they have enough material for the season? Why do they fine members who leave the marriage early? This was bound to happen; I'm shocked that this did not happen in prior seasons.  Couples should be able to leave the marriages with no penalty.  Newlywed couples should not be living together or hanging out together. 

12 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Karla was the winner of this episode for me.  I loved the way she talked so calmly to Madison.  She was knocking her down without raising her voice.  I also laughed when she easily made that basket without looking like she was even trying.  

I think Karla hated that there were 2 men fighting over Madison.  Actually her man was David's bro too.  So three men. But no man liked Karla.  So I question her motives.  Maybe Karla is moral and pure.  But Juan was like treating her like the friend you let sit in the back of the car. So maybe she was jels and wanted to put Madison down. The only person who really has standing is Allen.  He was the one who was betrayed.  Karla was going nowhere with anybody.  Madison was.  It might be as simple as that.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

why does Michelle care?  

Because she was lied to by both David and Madison, and she had previously considered Madison a friend. 

I have to get this off my chest.... STOP THE PRODUCT PLACEMENTS. They are ridiculous. "Wow, this ADT safety system really made me feel safe last night..." Please.

Quote

Its her fault why David flirted with Madison.

Nah, bruh. David flirted with Madison because he's a player and he is hot for Madison. He might not have flirted with Madison if he and Michelle were getting along famously (or maybe he would - I personally think he is the type that flirts with women he finds attractive regardless of what his relationship status is). I don't think that Michelle pushed David into flirting with Madison. Plenty of couples have not gotten along but they don't go off and flirt with other people.

Ikechi is a dick. I want him to go away forever and never grace my television set ever again. I didn't like Emem's letter; it seemed petty and she is really better than that.

Oh - and add me to Team Karla. I found her tiresome before tonight but when the women were talking, once I could filter out all the "likes" she spoke some good, direct, truth. I think a lot of women would have tried not to say the hard thing that Karla did say, which was "I feel betrayed by you as a friend and I don't see myself, right now, continuing a friendship with you." I think a lot of women would be like "yeah, we'll do brunch" and then quietly block the person from their phone. So good for her for tactfully telling the truth.

Edited Thursday at 04:26 AM by Elizzikra

[Gator Stud]

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

As Pastor Cal said, there’s a tactful way to do this

You lost me at Pastor Cal said. He part of the reason why they are in this situation. 

[Gator Stud]

11 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

I think the guys when they had a chance went soft soap on David. They should have laid the heavy wood on him for being such a cad and liar.

I don't know if Allan should confront Madison or just erase her like it never happened. I'd want to get my pound of flesh. She deserves to know what a wench she is. 

 

Didnt the Twin admit to having an affair? Whats he going to say to David that doesn't sound hypocritical.  Did any of the other contestants ever cheat?  Maybe Madison and David should to detective work.

[Gator Stud]

7 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

No he don't get off that easy. If this gives license to cheat then every married couple in the world is entitled to have affairs. Husbands and wives have spells of being furious with each other. Its true in my house hold. The boundaries of not cheating allows reconciliation to occur. When you breach that wall the marriage as in this case, is over. I agree that Michelle was immediately put off by his living situation.

If someone treats me like a *********** and doesnt hold my hand, and then publicly treats me like a *********** why should I have any obligation to them? Because I took some fake vow on TV.   If someone treats me like shit, I'm giving them back that energy. I dont have to treat them nicely. Michelle deserved to be humiliated. Cheating means you actually have a relationship to cheat on.  Michelle checked out on day one.  The experts kept on trying to force the issue, so why dont you blame them. Why do they force newlyweds to hang out with each other?  What did they think was going to happen?

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

You dont want to blame the people who are really at fault: The Producers.  Why do they force newlyweds couples to live together?  Why do they force the couples to stay together in toxic relationships so they have enough material for the season? Why do they fine members who leave the marriage early? This was bound to happen; I'm shocked that this did not happen in prior seasons.  Couples should be able to leave the marriages with no penalty.  Newlywed couples should not be living together or hanging out together. 

I agree with you that the producers suck, but the whole point of the "experiment" is that they agree to get married to a stranger and live together and follow the advice of the "experts" to see if "experts" can pick them a better spouse than they were capable of on their own.  Which means you're not allowed to "peace out" when you decide at the altar that your spouse is unattractive to you.  You are making an agreement not to gaslight your spouse to make yourself look better.  You should not be allowed to spend all the time at your own house except when you are filming. 

That being said - if the producers and "experts" aren't going to try to actually match couples to have a chance of success, then anything should go - if they leave when not filming, follow them and ask why, and what they are doing.  If they are flirting and having sexy times with another spouse, follow and film them and ask what they are doing.  The "experts" could spend a little time watching the footage and then saying, for example, "Ikechi, why are you being such an ass?" on camera for our enjoyment!  They need to decide what they want this show to be! I wouldn't subscribe to Peacock for this nonsense!

[Gator Stud]

5 minutes ago, princelina said:

I agree with you that the producers suck, but the whole point of the "experiment" is that they agree to get married to a stranger and live together and follow the advice of the "experts" to see if "experts" can pick them a better spouse than they were capable of on their own.

Why do the newlyweds have to live with each other?  If they didnt all together with each other, this would have never happened.  David would have flirted with a different woman outside the cast.  So ultimately its the producer's fault.  

[princelina]

Just now, Gator Stud said:

Why do the newlyweds have to live with each other?  If they didnt all together with each other, this would have never happened.  David would have flirted with a different woman outside the cast.  So ultimately its the producer's fault.  

I agree - the show was better and more real before they did that.  But as Thomas said, "We are here to be married" and as I said in a previous post, "Adult humans can wait 8 weeks for nookie" - the people involved are not keeping their part of the bargain.  Specifically Michelle and David started it - neither of them did what they were hired to do.

[Gator Stud]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Oh - and add me to Team Karla. I found her tiresome before tonight but when the women were talking, once I could filter out all the "likes" she spoke some good, direct, truth.

Everybody is putting Karla on a pedestal after finding her annoying the entire season.  She better not have ever cheated in her life.  She is very judgmental. It is really envy? She was really into Juan, but Juan kept calling her "bro", so she gave up. Is Karla friends with anyone else who has cheated?

1 minute ago, princelina said:

I agree - the show was better and more real before they did that.  But as Thomas said, "We are here to be married" and as I said in a previous post, "Adult humans can wait 8 weeks for nookie" - the people involved are not keeping their part of the bargain.  Specifically Michelle and David started it - neither of them did what they were hired to do.

Sorry, Thomas admitted to cheating.  I am not hearing anything he is saying about this.  If you have cheated in the past, you have no standing to say anything without it being thrown right back in your face. So what he says doesnt matter.  Thomas could have waited too, instead of actually cheating- which we dont know if David and Madison even have.  We know they flirted and texted.

[JayDub1987]

Somebody in this thread is really, really vehement about defending cheaters. 
 

The posts are too well spoken to be David. Does Madison have a Primetimer account?

[Gator Stud]

44 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

Somebody in this thread is really, really vehement about defending cheaters. 
 

The posts are too well spoken to be David. Does Madison have a Primetimer account?

Nobody is defending cheaters.  I've been cheated on.  I've never cheated.  But I didnt see cheating. I saw flirting.  Both Madison and David betrayed Allen.  But why exaggerate what happened?   

And why isnt anybody blaming the experts or Production for this? Who forced them to live with other couples.  Nobody is defending Madison.  She was in the wrong.  David was not married so there was no betrayal to Michelle, only a betrayal to Allen.  Why is being accurate about what we verified happening being described as "defending cheaters"?

Edited Thursday at 06:30 AM by Gator Stud

[princelina]

44 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

Everybody is putting Karla on a pedestal after finding her annoying the entire season.  She better not have ever cheated in her life.  She is very judgmental. It is really envy? She was really into Juan, but Juan kept calling her "bro", so she gave up. Is Karla friends with anyone else who has cheated?

Sorry, Thomas admitted to cheating.  I am not hearing anything he is saying about this.  If you have cheated in the past, you have no standing to say anything without it being thrown right back in your face. So what he says doesnt matter.  Thomas could have waited too, instead of actually cheating- which we dont know if David and Madison even have.  We know they flirted and texted.

Thomas cheated on an actual relationship - not on his MAFS contract, which is what I am referring to 😂. (And I left the bit about Karla up there because I have liked her better than Juan from the start! 😃)

[Gator Stud]

5 minutes ago, princelina said:

Thomas cheated on an actual relationship - not on his MAFS contract, which is what I am referring to 😂. (And I left the bit about Karla up there because I have liked her better than Juan from the start! 😃)

I think Karla is fake.  I base this on being part of the yoga community for decades.  She sounds exactly like my friends that own yoga studios.  Word for word.  Its like their is a script. Reiki, Soundhealing, astrology, tarot cards, angel cards, cacao ceremonies, kirtan, breathwork. Even her affect is exactly the same.  With the quiet, breathy talk.  Also here is something else that pure Karla did on the show.  On the honeymoon she went topless for a while in front of everybody, and laughed about it. Why did she show people her breasts but now wants to act high and mighty? 

[princelina]

7 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

I think Karla is fake.  I base this on being part of the yoga community for decades.  She sounds exactly like my friends that own yoga studios.  Word for word.  Its like their is a script. Reiki, Soundhealing, astrology, tarot cards, angel cards, cacao ceremonies, kirtan, breathwork. Even her affect is exactly the same.  With the quiet, breathy talk.  Also here is something else that pure Karla did on the show.  On the honeymoon she went topless for a while in front of everybody, and laughed about it. Why did she show people her breasts but now wants to act high and mighty? 

Haha I never said she wasn't a faker, just that I liked her better than Juan from the beginning 😄. And I did like how she calmly told Madison off!

[Chatty Cake]

I laughed at Camille and Tom in bed together discussing how safe they feel with their ADT at a couples retreat where everyone is coming and going and it’s all being captured by a camera crew. 
Part of me thinks Michelle can stop with her anger at being the victim of a cheating scandal from a husband that she had nothing with.  I also doubt that her and Madison were friendly other than the filmed outings for the wives. Still, David should have ended the marriage early instead of blatantly lying and pretending for the cameras. 
Allen on the other hand kept giving Madison chances for an out because he knew she wasn’t into it but she kept him hanging on as though there was a chance. I also think Allen thought of David as a friend.  Karla was right, David and Madison are both dirty. 
It seems like more happens when the cameras are down and the couples are out drinking.
 

Edited Thursday at 11:35 AM by Chatty Cake

[JenE4]

10 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

You dont want to blame the people who are really at fault: The Producers.  Why do they force newlyweds couples to live together?  Why do they force the couples to stay together in toxic relationships so they have enough material for the season? Why do they fine members who leave the marriage early? This was bound to happen; I'm shocked that this did not happen in prior seasons.  Couples should be able to leave the marriages with no penalty.  Newlywed couples should not be living together or hanging out together. 

I think Karla hated that there were 2 men fighting over Madison.  Actually her man was David's bro too.  So three men. But no man liked Karla.  So I question her motives.  Maybe Karla is moral and pure.  But Juan was like treating her like the friend you let sit in the back of the car. So maybe she was jels and wanted to put Madison down. The only person who really has standing is Allen.  He was the one who was betrayed.  Karla was going nowhere with anybody.  Madison was.  It might be as simple as that.

The answer to all of your questions is: because they are making a TV show. That’s the entire purpose of matching these couples up—not out of the goodness of their heart for these people. Each one of these people agreed to sign up to be filmed for an 8 week marriage and follow along with the advice and activities to see whether they do fall in love over that time. Full stop. To answer your questions: They live together to make it easier on production to film. Your second question answered itself—to have enough material for the season. If they do fine people for leaving early, then it sounds like any typical production contract that actors have, too—because it fucks up the show when they leave. Barring any abuse,  hell, yeah, get that person in a safe environment! But, for example, Ikechi’s she asks aggressive questions to get to know me isn’t abuse. Michelle acting standoffish isn’t abuse. Sure, it might not make for a healthy marriage, but it still makes for a TV show—and that’s the bottom line. Now, the experts might be acting disappointed about David and Madison not living up to the spirit of the show, but behind the scenes I bet the producers are loving it! It’s better for the show that they cheated within the show rather than with Jackie from Tinder or with Cousin Denise’s Chinese food. But regardless, everyone here signed up to make a TV show and, damnit, that’s what we’re going to do—good or bad, successful match or not. There’s no “swipe (whichever direction to reject)” and move on. If you’re the kind of person who is going to check out and move on if the vibes aren’t there, then do not sign up for the show! Otherwise, just play your silly games, answer the embarrassing questions, and follow along with what the experts tell you to see whether anything develops. After 8 weeks, if not, you shake hands, wish each other well, and never see each other again. Then go live your influencer life you earned by signing up to make a TV show—and fuck whomever you’d like, as long as they’re a consenting adult.

Edited Thursday at 01:03 PM by JenE4

[SummerDreams]

I haven't finished the episode but seeing Madisson lie to Karla and Camille just made me angry. She said that she never expected the message David sent to be meant for her because that was not the relationship they had at the time. She thinks we are stupid? Does she mean that David chose that moment to express his feelings to Madisson for the first time and that was the first message he decided to send? "I want to eat you up"? I mean, so infuriating for her to lie like this.

[Elizzikra]

8 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

 On the honeymoon she went topless for a while in front of everybody, and laughed about it. Why did she show people her breasts but now wants to act high and mighty? 

Whore. She should put her tits away and go sit repentantly in a corner. [/s]

Seriously. What does that have to do with anything at all we are discussing?

8 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

And why isnt anybody blaming the experts or Production for this? Who forced them to live with other couples.  Nobody is defending Madison.  She was in the wrong.  David was not married so there was no betrayal to Michelle, only a betrayal to Allen.  Why is being accurate about what we verified happening being described as "defending cheaters"?

I’ve been busily sticking pins in little Producer-shaped voodoo dolls. What else do you want us to do? I think everyone largely agrees that David and Michelle were a terrible match. They both knew what the show was - marry a stranger (that’s the marriage you keep insisting didn’t exist happened), live together like a married couple (not necessarily a happily married couple) for 8 weeks and then decide whether or not to stay married. David flirted with Madison, lied about the fact that he did it at all, then lied about who he was doing it with, and somehow that’s all allowable because poor, poor David can’t live without flirting and/or sex for 8 weeks. Remember that David knew going in that his living in his parents’ basement would be a red flag for many women, as would the smoking. He told Michelle and then proceeded to tell her at every turn that he wanted her to be honest with him. She was. He didn’t return the favor. 

[JayDub1987]

This whole "Thomas cheated so he can't say anything bad about cheaters" concept is interesting to me. I've never cheated, but I still don't get this mindset. 

I got a DUI when I was 21 (I'm now 38). Based on this theory, I can't say that it's wrong and stupid for people to drive under the influence. People can actually grow and learn from their mistakes. People can point out the wrong in what they did, especially when they see other people doing it. 

[atomic]

When a man is willing to burn his own hand to enact some petty revenge 😭

[Empress1]

29 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

This whole "Thomas cheated so he can't say anything bad about cheaters" concept is interesting to me. I've never cheated, but I still don't get this mindset.

It doesn’t really make sense. Don’t we want people who have done wrong to recognize that they did wrong? If Tom were high-fiving David talking about how awesome cheating is, would that be better? Not to me.

[atomic]

53 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Whore. She should put her tits away and go sit repentantly in a corner. [/s]

Seriously. What does that have to do with anything at all we are discussing?

I have a really good memory and I don't recall this topless thing even happening. If someone else does, then I'll stand corrected.

Something that did pop in my head from the honeymoon was Madison encouraging David to show Michelle the tattoo of his ex's name. Wonder in hindsight if that was deliberate sabotage on Madison's part...because who in their right mind would consider that good advice when Michelle was already so unhappy with David??
 

[Jeanne222]

19 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

See.  This is why she is single.  If I was dating Michelle, I would have put her in her place in week 2.  I dont allow people to treat me badly.  I dont tolerate any negative behavior.  I'm not saying David is a great catch, but was it so hard for her to treat him like he is human? Who on this thread would tolerate being treated like David? Its her fault why David flirted with Madison.

Allen deserves a metal for holding back. I think he was very restrained for having a broken heart and lashing out. He could have punched David instead. I dont consider what he did as losing self control.  What would any man do when finding out their wife might be cheating?  They would punch something at some point. He can pay to fix those cabinets. And he wasnt an arsonist like you implied. The man was in his feelings.  And handled it well.  He was betrayed by his wife and his bestie.  How was he supposed to react?  Like he was an auditor at a board meeting?

Michelle won!  She was a terrible spouse to David but now she's the victim.

She made him feel low and inadequate at every turn.  Thank goodness he has a big ego and lots of self respect for himself.

A lesser man would have crumbled.

Madison likes a rough, cave man type like David and they both make each other feel good.

Allen just wasn't what Madison longed for.  She preferred going back to her bad choices type man!

Allen might be more Carla's type.  She's in her dream world and he's kind of silly taking his spices to the retreat

Water always finds it's own level.

[DrewPaul2010]

11 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

If someone treats me like a *********** and doesnt hold my hand, and then publicly treats me like a *********** why should I have any obligation to them?

Because you married that person. A person you vowed to stick with through thick and thin, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health and the key forsaking all others.  I'm not justifying Michelle's behavior she could have discussed it more reasonably but his living situation and goals for the future was a legitimate concern. Frankly the experts shouldn't have picked him to begin with. Any marriage that is on a tit for tat basis is going to fail. 

[Gator Stud]

1 hour ago, JayDub1987 said:

This whole "Thomas cheated so he can't say anything bad about cheaters" concept is interesting to me. I've never cheated, but I still don't get this mindset. 

Its called hypocrisy.  If you murdered people you dont get to complain about murderers. A former cheater cant rag on someone for flirting. Or else his cheating might be thrown back in his face.  I actually dont judge Thomas and think he is a nice guy.  But I cant stand hypocrisy or gaslighting. Michelle is faking that she is hurt over David's flirting and Karla is faking being all high and mighty.  Its like so fake.  Everybody just wants to look moral on TV.

[Jeanne222]

9 minutes ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

Because you married that person. A person you vowed to stick with through thick and thin, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health and the key forsaking all others.  I'm not justifying Michelle's behavior she could have discussed it more reasonably but his living situation and goals for the future was a legitimate concern. Frankly the experts shouldn't have picked him to begin with. Any marriage that is on a tit for tat basis is going to fail. 

Oh David was exactly what this show wanted!  He brought the spice.

[Gator Stud]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Whore. She should put her tits away and go sit repentantly in a corner. [/s]

Seriously. What does that have to do with anything at all we are discussing?

This is what it has to do with it: She is acting all high and mighty and like the Moral Queen.  Pure. But on her honeymoon she shows her breasts to other men. Why be fake? 

I've been on nude beaches and stuff and have no problems but like I would not want to do that on my honeymoon.  Karla should not be so judgmental. Her issue is that Madison had 2 men, and Karla had none.  The one the experts gave her, kept on calling her, "bro". So now she has something to say. Shes fake. Michelle too.

58 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

It doesn’t really make sense. Don’t we want people who have done wrong to recognize that they did wrong? If Tom were high-fiving David talking about how awesome cheating is, would that be better? Not to me.

If you did something in the past, just keep quiet.  You dont have to encourage the bad behavior.   Generally speaking, Tom HAS kept quiet. I think he struck the perfect balance. Karla on the other hand...

40 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Michelle won!  She was a terrible spouse to David but now she's the victim.

She made him feel low and inadequate at every turn.  Thank goodness he has a big ego and lots of self respect for himself.

A lesser man would have crumbled.

Madison likes a rough, cave man type like David and they both make each other feel good.

Allen just wasn't what Madison longed for.  She preferred going back to her bad choices type man!

Allen might be more Carla's type.  She's in her dream world and he's kind of silly taking his spices to the retreat

Water always finds it's own level.

Actually, Madison said she likes metrosexuals who dress well.  That is why she chose David.

[DrewPaul2010]

15 hours ago, JayDub1987 said:

I will never NOT believe that production didn't tip Michelle off about David/Madison coming home at the same time three straight nights. She wasn't around him enough to get an accurate gauge on how he felt about another woman.

The tip off was the text and who David was with when she received the text. Then the endless absurd lies about the text. She put the clues together and wasn't sure if it was her imagination getting away from her. So she went to Allen as a sounding board. At first denial, but then realization came. 

They picked a loser for Michelle, a grown up boy living at home. There is a huge difference in our perception of people who are happy, smiling having a wonderful time, dressing nicely to impress and someone who is very stressed out and unhappy. As a result the perception of Michelle (which I shared initially) is she is a cold dour bitch. In another situation we'd see a soft fun side.

 

[DrewPaul2010]

48 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Michelle won!  She was a terrible spouse to David but now she's the victim.

She is a victim of a poor choice of a husband. She hasn't won anything except weeks of stress and frustration and at the end of the day no husband. She didn't apply to MAFS so she could win some popularity or sympathy game. Had they picked Allen for Michelle it would be a totally different outcome.

[Alexander Pope]

On 2/19/2025 at 8:25 AM, Lindz said:

Gah! They're milking this text drama for every drop!!!! It's been like 5 episodes!!! I can't even remember life before that text!!! 😂😂 Thank God the season's ending so they can't drag it out even longer! I wanna know what Madison would've said & done had she received that text. Why didn't he send it to her? I guess because his wife was suspicious & investigating him. Zero integrity indeed PC!!! Crazy how he started out as a Chris & ended up as Alyssa. He was the victim of a wife who didn't give him a chance, turned lying, gaslighter. He's a good [lying] person. 😅 Kinda shocking & disturbing the amount of people okay with David's behavior. Yes. Michelle didn't want him, didn't care about him, didn't care to get to know him, etc. She should've ended it. If he wanted to flirt & pursue things with other women, he should've ended it. He shouldn't have lied about that text, repeatedly. That text was both their outs. Why they continued is for them to say. Others have ended their marriages early just fine, so some zero proof "fine" doesn't cut it, but eh. I guess some people would be perfectly okay with someone lying to their face, constantly.

This is an interesting theory--did David send the text accidentally on purpose?  And was he aware of this or was his unconscious working overtime?  Or was he just plain lazy and drunk and tapped the wrong contact?  I vote for the last option, with his unconscious perhaps playing along.

Edited Thursday at 05:16 PM by Alexander Pope

[DrewPaul2010]

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Oh - and add me to Team Karla. I found her tiresome before tonight but when the women were talking, once I could filter out all the "likes" she spoke some good, direct, truth. I think a lot of women would have tried not to say the hard thing that Karla did say, which was "I feel betrayed by you as a friend and I don't see myself, right now, continuing a friendship with you." I think a lot of women would be like "yeah, we'll do brunch" and then quietly block the person from their phone. So good for her for tactfully telling the truth.

I thought the men should have as tactfully said the same to David...or even not as tactfully. Even if Madison were to sincerely apologize people can forgive, but forgiveness doesn't mean the restoration of a friendship. Love can be unconditional...relationships are not.

7 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

This is an interesting theory--did David send the text accidentally on purpose?  And was he aware of this or was his unconscious working overtime?  Or was he just plain lazy and drunk and tapped the wrong contact?  I vote for the last, with a touch of the second option.

I'm in favor of believing he's a cheater and an idiot. Its possible to do both at the same time. David proved it.

[Empress1]

24 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

Actually, Madison said she likes metrosexuals who dress well.  That is why she chose David.

David dresses like he just woke up. I will give him credit for using hair products (as a curly girl myself, I know styling when I see it) but “metrosexual who dresses well” is not David’s vibe at all. Allen puts way more into his appearance than David does. People may not like how Allen dresses but he has a distinct cultivated style. David looks like he threw on whatever without thinking about it. Between David’s race and his lack of style, it doesn’t seem like he’s Madison’s physical type.

I think the experts got Madison and Michelle’s matches right in terms of looks. Madison likes a metrosexual white guy. Allen is that. Michelle said she liked a light-skinned Black guy with edge - tattoos, facial hair, kind of scruffy. That’s David. The experts got that right in terms of what she said her physical type is (which they pointed out by showing David and Michelle a clip of her describing what she likes).

[Madding crowd]

On another subject I find it interesting that Juan and Karla never say how they feel about each other and the experts never really ask them deep questions. I have no idea if they find each other attractive or like each other’s personality. They are fulfilling their contracts  but it’s obvious they don’t want to be married. We have so much information on the likes and dislikes of all the other people but almost nothing from them . 

[JayDub1987]

40 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

Its called hypocrisy.  If you murdered people you dont get to complain about murderers. A former cheater cant rag on someone for flirting. Or else his cheating might be thrown back in his face.  I actually dont judge Thomas and think he is a nice guy.  But I cant stand hypocrisy or gaslighting. Michelle is faking that she is hurt over David's flirting and Karla is faking being all high and mighty.  Its like so fake.  Everybody just wants to look moral on TV.

Alright then. That answers my question. No one can say that things they did in the past are wrong. That's one of the strangest takes that I've ever seen, and that's saying a lot. 

[sauce62]

Do you all think if David had been matched with Madison that they would have been into each other? My hunch is No. They were both just trying to get out of their own matches and liked the affirmation and sneakiness factor/forbidden fruit. Both are heavy drinkers too I suspect, and started drinking together and one thing led to another. I highly doubt they are still together. David is a fuckboy, and that is Madison's type. Clearly.  But as for being matched for MAFS, I think David would have been into her, but I'm not sure she would have reciprocated. They hit it off because it was a thrill. Your thoughts?

[Empress1]

13 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I think a lot of women would have tried not to say the hard thing that Karla did say, which was "I feel betrayed by you as a friend and I don't see myself, right now, continuing a friendship with you." I think a lot of women would be like "yeah, we'll do brunch" and then quietly block the person from their phone. So good for her for tactfully telling the truth.

I think this is what Camille will do, though she did say she didn’t buy that the text was sent in error. Even when she and Emem were talking to Michelle, Camille looked like she didn’t want to be there. I really appreciated Karla’s stance of “No, I don’t see or respect your side of this; there are any number of other men you could have been with besides the husband of someone you claimed to be friends with; I don’t want to be involved with this or be friends with you because it’s foul.” I think there was also some “if you’d do it to her, you’d do it to me and I’m not going to give you the opportunity” subtext there. She was the only one to point-blank say the situation was grimy and fucked up, and she also pointed out that they ruined the vibe of the retreat. 

[Alexander Pope]

4 minutes ago, sauce62 said:

Do you all think if David had been matched with Madison that they would have been into each other? My hunch is No. They were both just trying to get out of their own matches and liked the affirmation and sneakiness factor/forbidden fruit. Both are heavy drinkers too I suspect, and started drinking together and one thing led to another. I highly doubt they are still together. David is a fuckboy, and that is Madison's type. Clearly.  But as for being matched for MAFS, I think David would have been into her, but I'm not sure she would have reciprocated. They hit it off because it was a thrill. Your thoughts?

I will have to give that argument some thought--I think you may be right. And I think Madison herself may agree with you, particularly since once Cal put the idea into her head, she seemed to see it as her ticket out of this mess.

[princelina]

56 minutes ago, sauce62 said:

Do you all think if David had been matched with Madison that they would have been into each other? My hunch is No. They were both just trying to get out of their own matches and liked the affirmation and sneakiness factor/forbidden fruit. Both are heavy drinkers too I suspect, and started drinking together and one thing led to another. I highly doubt they are still together. David is a fuckboy, and that is Madison's type. Clearly.  But as for being matched for MAFS, I think David would have been into her, but I'm not sure she would have reciprocated. They hit it off because it was a thrill. Your thoughts?

I agree with your assessment of why they are together.  If they had been matched I think David would have been into it for sure, Madison is iffy.  She might have found that she enjoyed working out with him, etc, and he was dressed nice, with pony down for the wedding.

If I were on this show I'd never say I wanted someone who looked "edgy" (Michelle's word from the beginning) because I'd be scared of what they would think that means.  (Hello, I'm Michael! 😄). David looked nice at the wedding, and if it were me and he said that he lived in his parents' basement to save money I could have given the benefit of the doubt, and he said he was a "social smoker" which again - we'll see.  What would have put me off in Michelle's shoes was the fact that when they talked about why they were matched all he could say -several times- was "hot blonde" - nothing about what he was looking for except that.  He could have said exactly the same to Madison (who would have replied, "I know" 😂) and therefore we know he would have been just as pleased if he had been matched with her.  He wasn't looking for anything else!  Although the heavy drinking was probably a plus in his book! 😃

Edited Thursday at 06:45 PM by princelina

[Elizzikra]

10 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Everybody is putting Karla on a pedestal after finding her annoying the entire season.  She better not have ever cheated in her life.  She is very judgmental. It is really envy? She was really into Juan, but Juan kept calling her "bro", so she gave up. Is Karla friends with anyone else who has cheated?

I gave Karla credit for saying something smart (granted, peppered generously with “like”) in her conversation with Madison. That’s hardly putting her on a pedestal.

I don’t know if Karla knows anyone else who has cheated but I think she was pretty articulate about how she personally felt betrayal in the situation because she had felt like all the couples were mutually supportive. She felt it was dishonest for Madison to be in the conversations with the other ladies acting like she had no knowledge of what was going on with David when in fact she knew David was “catching feelings” for her. Karla specifically said she didn’t want to be in the middle of the situation and I don’t blame her. I’d feel that way if I were part of any friend group and two of the members were developing a relationship outside of their respective marriages. I just don’t want to be a part of it.

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

This is what it has to do with it: She is acting all high and mighty and like the Moral Queen.  Pure. But on her honeymoon she shows her breasts to other men. Why be fake? 

I've been on nude beaches and stuff and have no problems but like I would not want to do that on my honeymoon.  Karla should not be so judgmental. Her issue is that Madison had 2 men, and Karla had none.  The one the experts gave her, kept on calling her, "bro". So now she has something to say. Shes fake. Michelle too.

If you did something in the past, just keep quiet.  You dont have to encourage the bad behavior.   Generally speaking, Tom HAS kept quiet. I think he struck the perfect balance. Karla on the other hand...

Actually, Madison said she likes metrosexuals who dress well.  That is why she chose David.

I really didn’t see Karla as being “high and mighty.” She didn’t like what Madison did and how she handled the situation. That’s fine. It was honest. She doesn’t have to like everyone.

I don’t remember Karla taking her top off but … she wasn’t “showing her breasts off to other men.” Maybe she didn’t want a tan line. Maybe she is more comfortable that way. Whatever - no need to slut shame her for something that is perfectly acceptable in pretty much the entire rest of the world except conservative parts of the US. And if you don’t want to take your top of on the beach on your honeymoon, by all means, leave it on.

1 hour ago, sauce62 said:

Do you all think if David had been matched with Madison that they would have been into each other? My hunch is No. They were both just trying to get out of their own matches and liked the affirmation and sneakiness factor/forbidden fruit. Both are heavy drinkers too I suspect, and started drinking together and one thing led to another. I highly doubt they are still together. David is a fuckboy, and that is Madison's type. Clearly.  But as for being matched for MAFS, I think David would have been into her, but I'm not sure she would have reciprocated. They hit it off because it was a thrill. Your thoughts?

I think David would have been happy with Madison and they might have gotten a little further than they did with their current respective matches, but no, I don’t think it would have been the thing it is now. I think they liked the fact that there was some excitement and they sort of bonded over disappointment in their matches but that’s about it. I don’t see them lasting long but then again, what do I know. Maybe they will be the most successful MAFS marriage ever.

[atomic]

If Karla was sunbathing topless around the other husbands, then it's something that would have stood out to me, since that's definitely not a social norm in American culture. I still maintain that it didn't happen unless I'm proven otherwise.

[DrewPaul2010]

2 hours ago, sauce62 said:

Do you all think if David had been matched with Madison that they would have been into each other? My hunch is No. They were both just trying to get out of their own matches and liked the affirmation and sneakiness factor/forbidden fruit. Both are heavy drinkers too I suspect, and started drinking together and one thing led to another. I highly doubt they are still together. David is a fuckboy, and that is Madison's type. Clearly.  But as for being matched for MAFS, I think David would have been into her, but I'm not sure she would have reciprocated. They hit it off because it was a thrill. Your thoughts?

I concur. Considering she made it known she preferred a Caucasian I think she would have flipped when she went down the aisle. Even if David was white, she would have the same objections Michelle had. The guy is 36 and can't handle living on his own. That's a major red flag for anyone. When asked if he has plans to move out he's getting to it...eventually some day.  If she wasn't happy with Allen's attire imagine how displeased she'd be with David's attire.

They hit it off (superficially) because they were both unhappy with their married at first sight experience. They gave each other sympathetic ears. I'm convinced their romance will be kaput by the time of the reunion. David will be ticked off, Allen may feel a little vindication. I hope they don't make him sit next to Madison.

[Elizzikra]

34 minutes ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

I concur. Considering she made it known she preferred a Caucasian I think she would have flipped when she went down the aisle. Even if David was white, she would have the same objections Michelle had. The guy is 36 and can't handle living on his own. That's a major red flag for anyone. When asked if he has plans to move out he's getting to it...eventually some day.  If she wasn't happy with Allen's attire imagine how displeased she'd be with David's attire.

They hit it off (superficially) because they were both unhappy with their married at first sight experience. They gave each other sympathetic ears. I'm convinced their romance will be kaput by the time of the reunion. David will be ticked off, Allen may feel a little vindication. I hope they don't make him sit next to Madison.

David seems way into Madison but I think Madison sees someone to date, drink and hook up with in David, not a life partner.

 

57 minutes ago, atomic said:

If Karla was sunbathing topless around the other husbands, then it's something that would have stood out to me, since that's definitely not a social norm in American culture. I still maintain that it didn't happen unless I'm proven otherwise.

I think it depends where you are in the States. I’ve been to parts of South Beach (Miami) where I felt like I was in the minority not sunbathing topless.