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S04.E13: Ghostsfellas

Neptune

By Neptune
in Ghosts (US)

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Annber03

Annber03

"When I was dating all of Fleetwood Mac..." "Not happening." 

Oh, Flower. You silly goof. 

Awwwwwwwwwww, the postcards. What a sweet reveal for Pete. I'm glad he got to see those. And I love Carol coming in to help as she did, too - and good on Pete for standing up to her and getting her help as he did besides. I've never seen Goodfellas (I know, I know...I am very much like Sam in that way :p), but I do like that I could still follow the general gist of everything even without being familiar with the movie. Glad they were able to get the mob off Jay's back, his restaurant just opened, he does not need this mess. 

So Isaac and Alberta are going to be roommates. I hope we get to see some of that, 'cause that should be a lot of fun :D. Not surprised Thor and Flower are moving in together, it really was only a matter of time. But of course, this still leaves the rather obvious fact that Trevor and Hetty are both on their own, so will that last long as well? And then of course there's whatever could someday happen with Isaac and Nigel down the line, too... Suffice to say I'm guessing this is not the last we'll be seeing of the musical bedroom situation :p. 

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phalange

phalange

“Paw Patrol too violent for your tastes.” Lol Thor is so good at roasting  people.

Pete getting to see all the postcards from his clients thanking him for being such a good travel agent was sweet considering how bummed he was after learning the agency was a front for the mob.

Love Flower going into lawyer mode there at the end. Hetty and Trevor are lucky she was the one who overheard because they weren’t being all that quiet while discussing their secret evil plan. 

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shura

shura

(edited)

Ah, what’s there to wonder.  Like Sam’s insistence that she didn’t lift the recipe off of Carol’s dead body proves that she didn’t.  It is the most logical explanation.  She must have gotten the books from some other records that were on Carol.

So this was essentially the same episode as the one where Flower’s old cult moved in and tried to take over the house, right?

”We’ll be the ones asking questions. We don’t have any right now, but when we do, we’ll be asking them.”

Edited by shura
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PaulE

PaulE

Loved the so-called non-smoking airline tickets.  Ah, the good old days of the 1980s when airlines believed that if they arbitrarily created a non-smoking section IN THE SAME CABIN of the plane, there'd be an invisible barrier that the smoke somehow would be utterly unable to permeate, and everyone would be happy!  Not to mention the fact that it would circulate anyway through the ventilation system.  We've come a long way.

Another sweet moment with Sam's validation of Pete.  He's always the one trying to bolster the others so it was nice that someone did it for him.

Loved Sass's reaction to Pete's cluelessness: "Those names scream travel agents."

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Bastet

Bastet

2 hours ago, PaulE said:

Loved the so-called non-smoking airline tickets.  Ah, the good old days of the 1980s when airlines believed that if they arbitrarily created a non-smoking section IN THE SAME CABIN of the plane, there'd be an invisible barrier that the smoke somehow would be utterly unable to permeate, and everyone would be happy! 

"You're a full two rows behind the smoking section, so you're good to go."

There were a lot of good little zingers like that in this episode:

- Michael Jackson as "talented artist, better man"
- Thor saying, "Sounds like someone is rethinking not going with ram's testicle masala"
- Alberta responding to Pete's distress he was the useful idiot by saying, "All good organizations need one; it's a vital position"
- Carol telling Sam, "It's going to be okay, you're young, you'll find someone" when Jay seems determined to sleep with the fishes
- The line delivery when Sam says "You have my word" in agreeing not to open the tasteful nudes box

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

"The 18th century was very difficult for white male landowners."

Line of the episode.

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sweetandsour

sweetandsour

I wonder if Carol and Melissa from Abbott Elementary would be kindred spirits, frenemies, or competitive adversaries.

They lucked out that Carol's storage unit is still intact and housing all of her items.  She died over a year ago.  Either Jerry is still paying for the unit (maybe he also keeps some things in there) or Carol prepaid far in advance and the contents haven't gone up for auction or disposed of.

After the death of their accountant, I'd think the crime family would want to recover the incriminating records she had, but maybe the books Jay and Sam found are the older years (still within statute of limitations) that were off the mafia's radar, while the current year and more recent years were in Carol's office or on-site at a mafia storefront.

Not sure why Isaac jumped to sharing a room with Alberta when he could have said, "I will share with Hetty," considering his strong friendship with her and wanting to prevent Hetty or Trevor, now in single rooms with no roommates to catch them, from sneaking into each other's rooms.  Isaac and Hetty tried sharing back in season 1, but it's not like they couldn't live together.  Once he could stop dodging her advances after coming out, they were fine.  OK, I do understand why Isaac said he would share with Alberta - for narrative purposes and to give Hetty and Trevor their W.

"Did not graduate."

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Katy M

Katy M

8 hours ago, phalange said:

Pete getting to see all the postcards from his clients thanking him for being such a good travel agent was sweet considering how bummed he was after learning the agency was a front for the mob.

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?  And if she didn't want him to see them for some reason, why save them instead of just tossing them?  It was nice, but to me it made no sense.

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?  And if she didn't want him to see them for some reason, why save them instead of just tossing them?  It was nice, but to me it made no sense.

Yeah, that had me scratching my head as well.  No logic in that at all.

7 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I want to know about Pete's family why would they let him be involved with someone with ties to the mob?

Let's face it, Pollyanna Pete lived in a "see no evil" world so one on wonders if his family was that way as well.  Although his daughter seemed like a smart cookie so apparently Carol hid things from her pretty well.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
2 hours ago, Katy M said:

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?  And if she didn't want him to see them for some reason, why save them instead of just tossing them?  It was nice, but to me it made no sense.

I was baffled by this too.
But I suppose Carol might have hid the postcards because they were records of the legit activities of her mafia cousins’ front that might be used to tie them to bank accounts etc.?
If so, did she hide them before or after Pete saw them?
I can imagine after Pete read each postcard that Carol told him she was putting it with company archives or something and Pete not questioning it.

It wasn't clear to me if Pete was seeing them for the first time or just the first time in a long time and had forgotten about them. 
Pete would have not forgotten them. He would have bragged about the many specific words of appreciation.
But maybe if he only saw them briefly…
Maybe Carol would sweep them away before he read them and say that they just said "Having a great time. Wish you were here."
If that was supposed to be left vague, kudos to Richie Moriarty for playing it like it could go either way.

But it did leave us confused.

I do love that she died wearing the Halloween cat ears.
It's the most creative (IMO) ghost attire.

Edited by shapeshifter
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highway61

highway61

10 hours ago, shura said:

Ah, what’s there to wonder.  Like Sam’s insistence that she didn’t lift the recipe off of Carol’s dead body proves that she didn’t.  It is the most logical explanation.  She must have gotten the books from some other records that were on Carol.

Forget about shaking down the restaurant. If I were a gangster, the most logical conclusion from the recipe and the books is that Sam and Jay killed Carol. A little surprised they didn't pick up on that!

But 'Mafia' episodes just have such a different tone, that I don't find them much fun. (I'm looking at you, 'The Office')

 

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shura

shura

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

Although his daughter seemed like a smart cookie so apparently Carol hid things from her pretty well.

Or she knows and just quetly continues to help the family business...

We used to have this place around where I live, basically a big hangar full of kids' activities - mini golf, video games, batting cages, climbing wall, table tennis, etc.  It was an awesome place to have birthday parties at.  Surprisingly (or not), it was always available when you wanted to book yourself a party there.  On the other hand, we live kind of in the middle of nowhere, there are not so many people around, we always wondered how exactly this place stayed in business.  Then it suddenly shut down without an explanation.  That was the week we learned that a local prostitution ring got busted (apparently there are enough people around for that).  So one can't help but connect things and wonder...

10 hours ago, PaulE said:

Loved the so-called non-smoking airline tickets.  Ah, the good old days of the 1980s when airlines believed that if they arbitrarily created a non-smoking section IN THE SAME CABIN of the plane, there'd be an invisible barrier that the smoke somehow would be utterly unable to permeate, and everyone would be happy!  Not to mention the fact that it would circulate anyway through the ventilation system.  We've come a long way.

It also shocks me when I watch something from the good old days of flying how everybody used to be able to just walk right up to the gate even if they were not flying, without any airport security.  I don't even remember anymore if I ever got to do it or if I am not old enough.  But you watch something like Goodfellas and there it is, a different era.  Incidentally, Goodfellas was the first time I heard of something called Idlewild Airport.  It sounds so rural and quaint, doesn't it?

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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?  And if she didn't want him to see them for some reason, why save them instead of just tossing them?  It was nice, but to me it made no sense.

That didn't make sense to me either. If they were mailed to the office and "they" didn't care, why not just toss it on Pete's desk? And Pete's the front desk guy, so wouldn't he see the incoming (legitimate) mail from the real customers?

Maybe Pete just forgot since we don't remember mail that come in one at a time, but seeing them all together brings back memories. But why is it in Carol's box? Maybe she just put everything in the storage place after Pete's death because she can't bring herself to throw them away despite their fights and her cheating on him.

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chaifan

chaifan

This was a cute episode.  As others have noted, a lot of great one-liners, I was laughing through most of it.  I actually snorted at the "rich landowners" line - both Alberta's delivery and Isaac's head nod, not even realizing the sarcasm.  I love Hetty and Trevor as Power Friends.  

While I love Sass's dream power, and it serves a purpose for the show, I wish his ghost power was related to his storytelling, to make people believe stories.  Sort of the opposite of the big box ghost that could make people forget what they were looking for.  So when Sam or Jay come up with odd explanations, people just believe it.  Maybe that would be too convenient, and would get Sam and Jay out of too many scrapes, though.  

It would have been so easy to say "Carol visited a number of times, and became like family.  See, look, I'm on the family group text.  She taught Jay how to make the sauce one day."  Then the mob guys could have become "family" and not mean scary mob guys.  It would have been fun to see them every once in a while.  

8 minutes ago, appositival said:

I was expecting the ghosts to start walking through the gangsters when they came to dine.

ooh, I like this.  I was expecting them to be seated at the ghost's table, and one of the cholera ghosts would refuse to move.  It's weird that they chose to move an existing table of guests instead of using the empty table in an emergency.

Unrelated question...  have episodes been "full ghost" lately?  Earlier in the season there was always a ghost missing, but it seems like the last few have had everyone.  

 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I am starting to worry that the mobsters wont be paying their tab...

I am really glad to see that Jay's restaurant is doing well, I think that his idea to make dishes based on things the ghosts liked is a cool idea. Sam and Jay really should lean more into the mansions history, even without admitting that its super crazy haunted there are a lot of connections to big historical moments on their grounds that they could work into their marketing and design. 

My guess is that the mob were hiding the postcards just in case someone said something that could be linked to the travel agencies backroom business. I have not been the biggest fan of Carol but they used her well in this one, she did come through in this one and actually had some pretty funny lines. "Your young, you can find someone else." Poor Pete, he really did spend his life wearing those rose colored glasses for his entire life. 

Power Friends really are probably going to end in some hanky and some panky, much to Alberta and Isaac's horror. I love that Flower figured out everything and then immediately forgot, she really is quite smart when she can actually get a few thoughts together. 

I'm sure it gets old after a few decades, but I would love to hear about Flower's wild times dating all of Fleetwood Mac. Was Rumors not just about all of the band breaking up personally and professionally, but about Flower? 

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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

34 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I was expecting them to be seated at the ghost's table, and one of the cholera ghosts would refuse to move.  It's weird that they chose to move an existing table of guests instead of using the empty table in an emergency.

The ghost table only has room for 4.  Remember when Hetty wanted a seat but Trevor shut her out?

1 hour ago, appositival said:

So, is the gangster ever going to pay his tab?

8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I am starting to worry that the mobsters wont be paying their tab...

They're definitely not paying their tab, or returning the stolen art. Jay knows when to leave well-enough alone.

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Domestic Assassin

Domestic Assassin

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm sure it gets old after a few decades, but I would love to hear about Flower's wild times dating all of Fleetwood Mac. Was Rumors not just about all of the band breaking up personally and professionally, but about Flower? 

This is one of those things about the show that I shouldn't let bother me but it does. The Rumours era Fleetwood Mac was well after Flower's death, unless (unbeknownst to me) the pre-Buckingham/Nicks era was also famous for being a musical soap opera. 

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proserpina65

proserpina65

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I've never seen Goodfellas (I know, I know...I am very much like Sam in that way :p)

Me neither.  I have, however, seen Midnight Run and highly recommend it.

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?  And if she didn't want him to see them for some reason, why save them instead of just tossing them?  It was nice, but to me it made no sense.

Maybe they were ones which arrived after his death?  Although there were lots of them, so probably not.  I guess whoever was in charge of the mail gave them to Carol thinking she would give them to Pete and she never did.

1 hour ago, shura said:

It also shocks me when I watch something from the good old days of flying how everybody used to be able to just walk right up to the gate even if they were not flying, without any airport security. 

That was common before 9-11.  I flew out of the Philadelphia airport a couple of times in the 80s and 90s, and while there were security checkpoints, you could still walk up to the gate and watch the planes coming in and going out even if you didn't have a ticket.  The last time I flew anywhere, it was in 2008 and everything had changed by then.

7 minutes ago, Domestic Assassin said:

This is one of those things about the show that I shouldn't let bother me but it does. The Rumours era Fleetwood Mac was well after Flower's death, unless (unbeknownst to me) the pre-Buckingham/Nicks era was also famous for being a musical soap opera. 

They kinda were but in an entirely different way.  

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iMonrey

iMonrey

The part that really had me laughing was in the travel agency flashback, when the door to the back opened up behind Pete's desk and you could see a guy standing there with cocaine bags wrapped around his waste. At first I thought it was some guy they were offing by strapping a bomb around him but then I realized it was drugs.

The problem here is that it makes Pete look really dumb, not knowing these guys were mobbed up. I mean, with those names and all that sketchy behavior? There's hopelessly naive and then there's just dumb, and this verges on the latter if not falling into it outright.

14 hours ago, phalange said:

“Paw Patrol too violent for your tastes.” Lol Thor is so good at roasting  people.

Pete said the movie was too violent for him but a few episodes ago he said he liked violence in movies, which I found out of character at the time. So there was a writing inconsistency here.

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

But had he not seen them before?  they were in Carol's storage place. Sure, she was awful, but why bother to hide postcards from him?

I interpreted them as something she saved after Pete died, which was actually kind of sweet. I assumed he had seen them as he got them then put them somewhere, and after he died Carol found them and kept them. Pete had obviously forgotten all about them until Sam found them in the storage locker.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

52 minutes ago, Domestic Assassin said:

This is one of those things about the show that I shouldn't let bother me but it does. The Rumours era Fleetwood Mac was well after Flower's death, unless (unbeknownst to me) the pre-Buckingham/Nicks era was also famous for being a musical soap opera. 

Its certainly more of a joke than anything we're supposed to think about too much, but Fleetwood Mac started in the late 60s and depending on when Flower died in the 60s she could have gotten in there pretty early, Fleetwood Mac has kinda been drama since its inception. 

Or her brain might be so jumbled that she mixed up Fleetwood Mac with Jefferson Airplane! 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its certainly more of a joke than anything we're supposed to think about too much, but Fleetwood Mac started in the late 60s and depending on when Flower died in the 60s she could have gotten in there pretty early, Fleetwood Mac has kinda been drama since its inception. 

Either that or she slept with them all before they officially became Fleetwood Mac.

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PaulE

PaulE

10 hours ago, Driad said:

When I flew, back when there was a smoking section, it was always in the back of the plane, so at least the nonsmokers didn't have to walk through it.  Did some airlines really put the smoking section in front?

It's been a long time but I think the non-smoking was at the back whenever I flew back then, which I admit wasn't that often, so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.  I hated smoke so I was always in that section.  I also remember that, in both airplanes and restaurants, the non-smoking section was pretty small.  You were made to feel that these areas were grudgingly provided because you were an annoying pain in the ass and that all "normal" Americans smoked or at least didn't mind it.

2 hours ago, shura said:

It also shocks me when I watch something from the good old days of flying how everybody used to be able to just walk right up to the gate even if they were not flying, without any airport security.  I don't even remember anymore if I ever got to do it or if I am not old enough.

When I was a little boy in the late 1960s, we once drove a relative to Kennedy Airport in New York to catch a flight to Germany.  We all went into the boarding lounge to wait with him (no metal detectors) and, when it was time to board, watched from the windows as he walked across the tarmac to the plane (no passenger boarding bridge).  I remember he turned and waved to us when he got to the top of the steps.

Also, when I flew in the late 1970s, the only photo I.D. I had was my college I.D. because New York State drivers' licenses didn't have photos on them until at least the mid-1980s.  I'm not even sure I had to show any I.D., which seems impossible but I honestly don't remember ever taking it out.  If I did, it was probably only one time.

There are times I have trouble believing things were actually like that once upon a time.  When I would tell stories like this to the students at the university I worked at, they'd accuse me at first of making them up.

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

17 hours ago, DanaK said:

And Carol’s cousin will always wonder how Jay and Sam got those books, particularly since Carol’s dead

Jay could've told him that Carol got drunk when she stayed there, and she started talking about food and recipes and had Jay make it so he could see how good it was.  That might've been believable to those nitwits!

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Maybe they were ones which arrived after his death?  Although there were lots of them, so probably not.

A lot of travel plans are booked out pretty far in advance.  Many of the postcards may have come from people who traveled long after Pete's death and Carol ended up putting them in the keepsake box.  

3 hours ago, PaulE said:

I hated smoke so I was always in that section.  I also remember that, in both airplanes and restaurants, the non-smoking section was pretty small. 

Yeah, you'd walk through the smoking section to get to the non-smoking section in a restaurant but still smelling it and breathing it in no matter where you sat!   My pet peeve is that even though most restaurants have banned smoking from inside, people still stand outside within 5-10 feet of the entrance to smoke.  Most people my age were exposed to secondhand smoke growing up.  Seeing the repercussions it had on our relatives who did smoke (COPD/emphysema; cancer, etc.), I don't want to breathe it in if I don't have to. It's rude to stand there and blow smoke in people's faces as they enter or leave a building when they could just to their car and smoke there.  😒 YMMV.  

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astrohip

astrohip

19 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Lotta bears in Flower's life...

Flower mentioned the Grateful Dead, and their soundman who was nicknamed Bear. This was real. One of their early supporters and sound engineers was Owsley "Bear" Stanley. He was responsible for their amazing sound system (the "Wall of Sound"). He was also behind the popularity of LSD in the 60s, primarily by manufacturing millions of hits. The Dead ended up dedicating an album to him, called "Bear's Choice".

Flower mentioned the Dead song "Sugar Magnolia" in an earlier episode. Someone on the writing staff is a Deadhead!

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The part that really had me laughing was in the travel agency flashback, when the door to the back opened up behind Pete's desk and you could see a guy standing there with cocaine bags wrapped around his waste. At first I thought it was some guy they were offing by strapping a bomb around him but then I realized it was drugs.

I missed that entirely!  I had to go back to rewatch to pick it up. What a hoot!

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Silver-hyren

Silver-hyren

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The problem here is that it makes Pete look really dumb, not knowing these guys were mobbed up. I mean, with those names and all that sketchy behavior? There's hopelessly naive and then there's just dumb, and this verges on the latter if not falling into it outright.

This is why I really didn't like this episode much.  I get that Pete is a perky optimist who is excessively wholesome and always sees the best in everyone, but it felt extremely mean spirited to present him as so dimwitted he didn't know the agency was a front.  The guy's wife is already awful, why did they have to pile on with his choice of employment (that he enjoyed and was good at!) being effectively a lie (and his awful wife knew about it!)?

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Domestic Assassin

Domestic Assassin

21 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Flower couldn't have slept with Fleetwood Mac. According to Wikipedia they didn't hit the US charts until 1969 and she died in 1968.

Yes, and I don't think the cult or the commune spent any time in England. I know it's just a joke, but I can't help yelling "WRONG DECADE" at the screen any time it comes up. (And then I feel old. 🙁)

 

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kathyk2

kathyk2

2 hours ago, Domestic Assassin said:

Yes, and I don't think the cult or the commune spent any time in England. I know it's just a joke, but I can't help yelling "WRONG DECADE" at the screen any time it comes up. (And then I feel old. 🙁)

 

You aren't old just a fan of 70's music. I'd love to know the ages of the fans of Ghosts. I wouldn't be surprised if it's older than some other shows.  I have five nieces and nephews ranging in age from 19 to 31 and they wouldn't understand most of the references in Ghosts.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

11 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Flower couldn't have slept with Fleetwood Mac. According to Wikipedia they didn't hit the US charts until 1969 and she died in 1968.

11 hours ago, Domestic Assassin said:

Yes, and I don't think the cult or the commune spent any time in England. I know it's just a joke, but I can't help yelling "WRONG DECADE" at the screen any time it comes up. (And then I feel old. 🙁)

Yes. Wrong side of "the pond" too.
I can fanwank that when Flower was in her first ghost year she had difficulty separating reality from hallucination. Perhaps there was a teenager living at the Woodstone then who blasted Fleetwood Mac on their record player and talked on the phone for hours with a friend about the doings of Fleetwood Mac. I can imagine the obsessive chatter on the phone being so frequent that Flower thought they were talking about and to her, especially since her real life experiences would be similar (I guess?) to those of the publicized escapades of any band.
Also, hearing just one side of the conversation, a stoned Flower would likely fill in during the parts where the Woodstone teen was listening. 
Flower's stories to Hetty are like that.

(I was a teen then who spent daily hours on the phone in the 60s with friends and played music on my record player and cassette recorder.)

 

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chaifan

chaifan

14 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Flower couldn't have slept with Fleetwood Mac. According to Wikipedia they didn't hit the US charts until 1969 and she died in 1968.

The Flower discussion was nagging at me, mostly because the writers of this show are fabulous, and I couldn't see them making such an obvious error.  So, I dug in (5 minutes on Google) and here's what I found...

First, I'm having a problem actually pinpointing the date of Flower's death.  One site said 1969, the wiki fanpage just puts it "not long after" the bank robbery which occurred in 1968.  

But, here's the fun part...  Here's a link to every concert Fleetwood Mac has ever done.  https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/fleetwood-mac

Go to page 108.  (Yes, they have done enough concerts to fill 113 pages.)  They were in New York in July 1968.  They were back again in December 1968 (page 105), but based on Flower's dress, I think we can assume it was a summer concert. 

Is there a specific performance listed at a festival in the area where Woodstone Manor is?  Nope.  But this is good enough for me. 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

6 minutes ago, chaifan said:

But, here's the fun part...  Here's a link to every concert Fleetwood Mac has ever done.  https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/fleetwood-mac

Go to page 108.  (Yes, they have done enough concerts to fill 113 pages.)  They were in New York in July 1968.  They were back again in December 1968 (page 105), but based on Flower's dress, I think we can assume it was a summer concert.

Perfect! 
Flower doesn't say she was dating Fleetwood Mac right before she encountered the bear, does she?
So I don't think her summer-y ghost dress is a problem with her having been with Fleetwood Mac in the winter in NY. 
 

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