chitowngirl Tuesday at 12:34 AM Share Tuesday at 12:34 AM Soto reopens an old murder case, determined to uncover the true killer in classic "whodunit" style. Airdate January 28, 2025 on ABC, next day Hulu 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/
AnimeMania Tuesday at 10:59 PM Share Tuesday at 10:59 PM RUSSELL WONG KEITH DAVID NASMIN PEDRAD ADRIENNE LEWIS JONATHAN CHASE RYAN DEVLIN PAMELA ROYLANCE NOAH SILVER MARGUERITE MOREA 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566198
Annber03 Yest. at 03:03 AM Share Yest. at 03:03 AM "This case has a lot of moving parts!" That's an understatement, Morgan. Good case, though, I liked the way it revealed a lot about this family and its secrets. And I liked the sequence iwth Morgan "showing" how Barry was killed in the shower. The ending with Cody was genuinely sad - I had a feeling, when Morgan started in about moms trying to keep everytihing together and whatnot, that that would tie into the case somehow, and it did, just in an unexpected way. Also, aw, the ending with the badge :). And it's always fun to see Daphne and Oz working together, too. Even if they had to deal with this woman going on and on with her story :p. 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566403
ams1001 Yest. at 03:11 AM Share Yest. at 03:11 AM Morgan's gleeful retelling of her crime theory was hilarious. Who played George? It's bugging me. I liked Morgan's floral blouse. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566413
kathyk2 Yest. at 03:32 AM Share Yest. at 03:32 AM This episode was awesome. I had no idea who the killer was but it made sense that a grandfather would protect his grandson. I hope the Captain doesn't make life difficult for Reyes. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566434
Annber03 Yest. at 03:35 AM Share Yest. at 03:35 AM 1 minute ago, kathyk2 said: I hope the Captain doesn't make life difficult for Reyes. Same. I liked how his hovering around created the time crunch, it added for some good tension for the team as they worked to solve this case. And it was a great opportunity to see Morgan and Soto continue to bond further. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566435
shura Yest. at 04:41 AM Share Yest. at 04:41 AM This was fun, a good, solid whodunnit. Wrongly assuming the identity of someone wearing someone else’s clothes is a classic, of course, but still fun. The only thing I am questioning is, there is no guarantee that a person will get electrocuted if you drop an electrical appliance in their shower, so you are risking having to explain why the hell you did that if your father survives. Oh well, I suppose the father knew that his kid hated him for what he was doing to his mother, so there was an explanation that was going to get swept under the rug if it didn’t work out. Oh, and who on Earth enjoys dining in a depressing, dark space like that? The walls of that dining room were black. There are mansions like that in LA? 5 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566447
agathapenny Yest. at 06:06 AM Share Yest. at 06:06 AM 2 hours ago, ams1001 said: I liked Morgan's floral blouse. To die for! 2 hours ago, kathyk2 said: This episode was awesome. I had no idea who the killer was but it made sense that a grandfather would protect his grandson. I guessed who the killer was early on, since I figured the TV changing channels was a misdirect that someone set up to make it look like Barry was still alive when he wasn't. But there was always a chance I was wrong, since there were a lot of good suspects. 1 hour ago, shura said: Oh, and who on Earth enjoys dining in a depressing, dark space like that? The walls of that dining room were black. There are mansions like that in LA? I was a little taken aback that the basement was so, um, unfinished. That sauna was less than posh. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566483
possibilities Yest. at 06:14 AM Share Yest. at 06:14 AM I am not a fan of the "two patterns clashing" look. It does kind of fit with Morgan's chaos aspect, however. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566488
luna1122again Yest. at 01:32 PM Share Yest. at 01:32 PM (edited) 10 hours ago, ams1001 said: Morgan's gleeful retelling of her crime theory was hilarious. Who played George? It's bugging me. I liked Morgan's floral blouse. George was Lawrence Pressman, who's literally been in everything. I don't know, maybe I'm amoral, but I think this is a case better left unsolved, or at least, publicly. The guy who died deserved it, and the kid was already traumatized, and the case was closed. I guess the biggest takeaway was Cody had been tortured by guilt all these years and WANTED to the truth to come out, but did he really deserve prison at this point? Morgan blithely complimenting Selena on putting the right person behind bars bugged me. I immediately figured Ryan Devlin/Matty was the killer; he'll always be rapist Mercer Hayes from Veronica Mars to me. Plus, he's cute, but he's just got that kind of face. I thought it was weird that they'd never replaced/disposed of the charred electrical plate thingy in the bedroom after all these years. Why are they wasting the foxy, awesome Garret Dillahunt on this show? Is his availability limited? And what happened to Taran Killam? Edited Yest. at 01:32 PM by luna1122again 4 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566574
AnimeMania Yest. at 01:53 PM Share Yest. at 01:53 PM It seemed strange that the mansion that has servants doesn't have any during the holidays, when there are guests, and they are serving a huge formal dinner. The lady of the house was up till after midnight cleaning up? That doesn't seem right. A nice complicated mystery that might not have seemed so rushed if they didn't keep going over facts that we already knew. I liked that they kept blurring the naked body parts as it fell down the laundry chute, they must have shown that at least 4 times. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566584
Raja Yest. at 01:57 PM Share Yest. at 01:57 PM 20 minutes ago, luna1122again said: Why are they wasting the foxy, awesome Garret Dillahunt on this show? Is his availability limited? I will think he was in the final running for playing Karadec. But for his career it does seem to be the level he has hit in his middle ages. It was funny that in the fantasy of her mind detective sequences Morgan was in a semi tactical black suit. 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566588
shapeshifter Yest. at 02:01 PM Share Yest. at 02:01 PM This episode was written by the grandchild of Columbo and Jessica Fletcher, right? I kept expecting a reveal that Heather's bruises were not inflicted by Barry, but once Cody convincingly confessed, such a reveal would have been too dark for this show. Regarding Cody being tried as a minor, I thought some L&O episode stated that could not be done if the murder was covered up so long by the now-adult? But this is California, right? So maybe different rules. Or I'm remembering incorrectly. Who played Barry? I kept thinking he looked like Raphael Sbarge. 1 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566591
Raja Yest. at 02:26 PM Share Yest. at 02:26 PM 20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said: Regarding Cody being tried as a minor, I thought some L&O episode stated that could not be done if the murder was covered up so long by the now-adult? But this is California, right? So maybe different rules. Or I'm remembering incorrectly. On the Law & Order mothership I remember the case when Angie Harmon's Carmichael did have to go to family court and tripped over herself using the terminology for a 40 year old I believe it was "respondent". With all its content it may have come up again with the cover up making the crime an adult one in another episode. 1 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566614
luna1122again Yest. at 02:42 PM Share Yest. at 02:42 PM 39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said: Who played Barry? I kept thinking he looked like Raphael Sbarge. IMDB says T.J. Thyne, who's a HeyItsThatGuy guy. 3 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566623
DrSpaceman73 Yest. at 03:03 PM Share Yest. at 03:03 PM (edited) This made for a great show and whodunit But can't say I liked the outcome. A teenage son killed an abusive father. 10 years ago. Feel bad for the kid, though he's 25 now. I know he feels unburdened but I hope they go light on him. House arrest, probation. Also....why did he have to move the body at alll? He covered up the electrocution and that was never discovered. Couldn't he have just left the body in the shower they said it could be confused with a heart attack. Finally .....if the dad had just not confessed the grandson probably gets away with it forever. It was only his confession that prompted the investigation. By confessing he caused the grandson to be caught. 11 hours ago, ams1001 said: Morgan's gleeful retelling of her crime theory was hilarious. Who played George? It's bugging me. I liked Morgan's floral blouse. I just recognized his voice as Lana's dad from archer. But looking him up, my god he's been in a ton of stuff. Including future man. Underrated show. Edited Yest. at 03:04 PM by DrSpaceman73 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566635
Raja Yest. at 03:15 PM Share Yest. at 03:15 PM 10 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said: Also....why did he have to move the body at alll? He covered up the electrocution and that was never discovered. Couldn't he have just left the body in the shower they said it could be confused with a heart attack. He had a fire and panicked. 7 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566641
agathapenny Yest. at 04:17 PM Share Yest. at 04:17 PM 2 hours ago, shapeshifter said: Who played Barry? I kept thinking he looked like Raphael Sbarge. He was a main character on the tv series Bones for years. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566694
shura Yest. at 04:19 PM Share Yest. at 04:19 PM 44 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said: Finally .....if the dad had just not confessed the grandson probably gets away with it forever. It was only his confession that prompted the investigation. By confessing he caused the grandson to be caught. Yes, but it was an unfortunate accident. It wasn't supposed to reopen the investigation, the police were happy to take his confession and close the case. It was Soto's personal initiative, one that her captain was not happy with at all. George had no way of knowing this was going to happen. His whole family had been living under suspision for ten years and he simply wanted to exonerate them and protect his grandson by taking the blame. 2 hours ago, AnimeMania said: I liked that they kept blurring the naked body parts as it fell down the laundry chute, they must have shown that at least 4 times. Well, this is still network TV, right? I am surprised they showed the picture of the roasted Barry a couple of times. I could have done without. 2 hours ago, luna1122again said: I don't know, maybe I'm amoral, but I think this is a case better left unsolved, or at least, publicly. The guy who died deserved it, and the kid was already traumatized, and the case was closed. I was thinking the same thing, but then again, at this point it's only the family's word that Barry was a monster, and in any case, one can't just go around killing bad people no matter how much they may deserve it. More importantly, there is no way a police captain can hear someone confess to a murder in front of witnesses and just let it go. And at that point Morgan had to make her case, otherwise both she and Soto were going to be canned. 10 hours ago, agathapenny said: I was a little taken aback that the basement was so, um, unfinished. That sauna was less than posh. Right? That one-person sauna looked like an oversized toaster oven. And their hair dryer was thirty years old, too. Were they not supposed to be a rich family? This was a mansion, right? Is Ida Perp a standard moniker for a police dummy like that? I don't think I've ever heard it before, and Google is not finding anything either. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566698
shapeshifter Yest. at 04:40 PM Share Yest. at 04:40 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, shapeshifter said: Who played Barry? I kept thinking he looked like Raphael Sbarge. 2 hours ago, luna1122again said: IMDB says T.J. Thyne, who's a HeyItsThatGuy guy. 28 minutes ago, agathapenny said: He was a main character on the tv series Bones for years. Thanks! I wonder if Raphael Sbarge and T.J. Thyne have ever been cast as brothers. Edited Yest. at 04:45 PM by shapeshifter 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566711
iMonrey Yest. at 05:14 PM Share Yest. at 05:14 PM (edited) I must have missed something. When Cody came back downstairs to play Monopoly and establish an alibi, Barry was already dead and down the laundry chute. Cody used the remote to turn on Barry's TV to make it seem like Barry was still alive and upstairs, but porn came on. So Matty and his brother went upstairs to turn off the TV, or to tell Barry to turn it down/off. But neither came back down and said Barry wasn't up there? And neither mentioned this to anyone during the myriad investigations? Or did Cody turn the TV off again before they got upstairs so they didn't bother to check? Also, I'm not sure the cops would have just put the cuffs on Cody then and there and hauled him away. I think they would have gone to the DA to see if they wanted to press charges. The case was already closed, they had grandpa on video confessing, so I don't know how much weight Cody's confession actually carries. He can still lawyer up, and the case is so convoluted I'm not sure the DA would want to touch it. This was not one of my favorites. The mansion used in this episode has been used in dozens of other TV shows and movies I've seen. Edited Yest. at 05:15 PM by iMonrey 4 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566737
shapeshifter Yest. at 05:26 PM Share Yest. at 05:26 PM Google says a minor would get 20-to-life for a second-degree murder conviction. The show said likely 3 years. I wonder if the difference is because the weapon was a hair dryer rather than a gun? And could the family's high-price defense attorney claim Cody didn't know the hair dryer was old enough to be fatal? Like he thought it would just give Barry a "jolt"? 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566747
SoMuchTV Yest. at 05:51 PM Share Yest. at 05:51 PM 4 hours ago, luna1122again said: Why are they wasting the foxy, awesome Garret Dillahunt on this show? Is his availability limited? Whenever he turns up, I feel like he’s on the wrong show. Probably because I’ve mainly seen (and loved) him in comedic roles, like on Raising Hope and Sprung. So I keep thinking, where are they going with this character? Is he supposed to be a buffoon? A bad guy? 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566765
tennisgurl Yest. at 05:59 PM Share Yest. at 05:59 PM (edited) I thought that this was a really good case, I like how it all played out, but I feel bad for how it all worked out, its hard to see this as a win. I hope that this does at least give the family closure after years of suspicion and that it makes Cody feel lighter, hopefully they go easy on him, its just a sad story. It was a cool case though, I liked them solving a cold case and Morgan walking through the house as she narrates what she thinks happened. The ending with the badge was cute. I missed seeing the kids, but we got a lot of them in the last episode and I am glad that Soto got some time to shine beyond being the boss and helping Morgan with her case. I can imagine that she felt like she had to avoid making waves when she was young, its probably one of the reasons she has always been in Morgan's corner, she can understand being underestimated. Edited Yest. at 07:43 PM by tennisgurl 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566774
luna1122again Yest. at 06:06 PM Share Yest. at 06:06 PM 12 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said: Whenever he turns up, I feel like he’s on the wrong show. Probably because I’ve mainly seen (and loved) him in comedic roles, like on Raising Hope and Sprung. So I keep thinking, where are they going with this character? Is he supposed to be a buffoon? A bad guy? I've seen him in lots of dramas (Justified, Dead to me, etc) and he's excellent, so I just don't understand why he's largely being wasted here. Checking his Wikipedia page, he's on two other series right now, so maybe that's it. I dunno. 5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said: Had we already seen Ernie Hudson in this? I don't care if he's going to be a problem for the main characters, he's so cool I am always happy to see him around. I think that was Keith David, not Ernie Hudson, but he's cool too. I don't think we'd seen his character before. 4 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566781
possibilities Yest. at 06:15 PM Share Yest. at 06:15 PM 19 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said: Whenever he turns up, I feel like he’s on the wrong show. Probably because I’ve mainly seen (and loved) him in comedic roles, like on Raising Hope and Sprung. So I keep thinking, where are they going with this character? Is he supposed to be a buffoon? A bad guy? He was also on Life (the one with Damian Lewis and Sarah Shahi) where he played a very scary organized crime guy-- that was the first role I saw him in, and whenever I see him, I keep waiting for him to do something terrifying. Even though I also wartched and liked him on Raising Hope and Sprung! I think he's a very dynamic presence, either way. I was happy that Judy Reyes finally got to do a little more, but I still felt like she didn't do very much. She and Dillahunt are both criminally underused on this show. I agree the resolution of the plot was sad, and I was disappointed that they didn't have Morgan at least be ambivalent about it. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566788
luna1122again Yest. at 06:26 PM Share Yest. at 06:26 PM 9 minutes ago, possibilities said: I was happy that Judy Reyes finally got to do a little more, but I still felt like she didn't do very much. She and Dillahunt are both criminally underused on this show. They should let them have a lot of tricky history and a torrid love affair! 3 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566801
AnimeMania Yest. at 06:43 PM Share Yest. at 06:43 PM Garret Dillahunt is about to start filming the Lanterns (Green Lantern) TV Series for HBO, he is playing a villain. 2 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566813
Chicago Redshirt Yest. at 06:44 PM Share Yest. at 06:44 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, shapeshifter said: Google says a minor would get 20-to-life for a second-degree murder conviction. The show said likely 3 years. I wonder if the difference is because the weapon was a hair dryer rather than a gun? And could the family's high-price defense attorney claim Cody didn't know the hair dryer was old enough to be fatal? Like he thought it would just give Barry a "jolt"? Soto jumped the gun there IMO. She seems to be operating under the assumption that the DA will keep the case in Juvenile Court, which typically retains jurisdiction until the juvenile turns 18. Since Cody was 15 years at the time of the offense, she is figuring that he would serve 3 years. Hypothetically, the DA could seek to try Cody in adult court, and seek the max penalty. Given the facts of this case and Cody's confession to a roomful of people, it seems to make more sense for the DA to agree to some sort of plea that is on the lighter side. But Soto can't say authoritatively in any case what he might face. On the facts as presented in the case, it would seem to be 1st degree murder. Cody intended to kill his father and make it look like a heart attack. That's textbook "malice aforethought." One can excuse his desire to kill Barry because of the abuse Barry was visiting on his mother. But 1st degree murder all the same. 1 hour ago, iMonrey said: I must have missed something. When Cody came back downstairs to play Monopoly and establish an alibi, Barry was already dead and down the laundry chute. Cody used the remote to turn on Barry's TV to make it seem like Barry was still alive and upstairs, but porn came on. So Matty and his brother went upstairs to turn off the TV, or to tell Barry to turn it down/off. But neither came back down and said Barry wasn't up there? And neither mentioned this to anyone during the myriad investigations? Or did Cody turn the TV off again before they got upstairs so they didn't bother to check? Also, I'm not sure the cops would have just put the cuffs on Cody then and there and hauled him away. I think they would have gone to the DA to see if they wanted to press charges. The case was already closed, they had grandpa on video confessing, so I don't know how much weight Cody's confession actually carries. He can still lawyer up, and the case is so convoluted I'm not sure the DA would want to touch it. This was not one of my favorites. The mansion used in this episode has been used in dozens of other TV shows and movies I've seen. The brothers said that they had knocked on Barry's door to get him to stop with the porn, and he didn't respond. Presumably that is true, and Cody turned down the TV volume after the knocking/"confrontation," and the brothers just assumed that Barry was being an uncommunicative douche who at least finally had the decency to turn off the porn he was watching loudly. There was no real reason either brother would have had to raise this interaction during the previous investigation because a) the investigators thought that Barry had died well after midnight thanks to matriarch saying she saw Barry go downstairs around then, and so were focused on what people were doing past midnight rather than before and b) this is too tied to the domestic violence stuff that the family wanted to keep silent about. Why wouldn't the cops have cuffed Cody and taken him away? He was a confessed murderer, even though he was contrite about it. Edited Yest. at 06:58 PM by Chicago Redshirt 2 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566814
ams1001 23 hours ago Share 23 hours ago 3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: Soto jumped the gun there IMO. She seems to be operating under the assumption that the DA will keep the case in Juvenile Court, which typically retains jurisdiction until the juvenile turns 18. Since Cody was 15 years at the time of the offense, she is figuring that he would serve 3 years. Hypothetically, the DA could seek to try Cody in adult court, and seek the max penalty. Given the facts of this case and Cody's confession to a roomful of people, it seems to make more sense for the DA to agree to some sort of plea that is on the lighter side. But Soto can't say authoritatively in any case what he might face. Yeah, I was thinking, "I don't think it's up to you how he's tried..." 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8566974
chaifan 20 hours ago Share 20 hours ago That was a fun episode. I liked the cutting back and forth between the investigation/interviews in the house and the one in the police station. For once, I figured it out pretty early on. I knew it was the grandson, especially after they revealed Barry as an abuser. I wasn't sure how he did the volume control, but figured he's a geeky/techy teen, so I knew there would be an explanation for that. I thought the bathroom outlet switch was weird. First, why would anyone bother putting the old/floral one on the bedroom wall? It would make more sense to just have an uncovered outlet, at least until one could get to Home Depot and pay .79 for a plastic outlet cover. And then to not switch it out for 10 years??? Are we to assume housekeepers in expensive mansions never move beds to clean? Or no one has painted or redecorated that room in 10 years? That was also pretty fast moving for a teen to find a screwdriver, undo one outlet cover, put it on in the bathroom, especially when it took 2 adults to move the bed. Who just allows cops to go through their home with only their housekeeper around? And I mentioned this a few episodes back, but they seem to be turning Daphne into a Morgan wanna-be. A few episodes they had her sucking on a lollipop and then doing a Morganesque discovery of something or another. This time, it's the leather jacket. A much more toned down version of Morgan, but I swear she was more buttoned-up earlier in the season. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567253
Chicago Redshirt 18 hours ago Share 18 hours ago Like others, I loved Morgan putting herself in the place of the murderer As always, a few nitpicks: I can't see any internal-to-HP reason why Soto would not have gone to her captain early on and said, "Hey Captain, this guy's confession doesn't add up to me" or "My consultant has come up with a theory showing that this murder didn't happen the way we thought it did. Do you mind if we test it out?" TPTB kinda undermine Soto by having her sneak around and trying to solve this case without running it up the chain. They gave Keith David a thankless role and made Soto look like she's willing to risk her career for essentially nothing. A line cop, let alone a captain, shouldn't be like "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission." Think of how much better it would have been if she sat down with the captain and had that conversation and he bought in grudgingly. I could understand the captain being like "this cleaning lady experiment is OVER" if this was like only the second or third time Morgan had solved a murder, or if she had flubbed an investigation previously, but since she has brought 10 people to justice before this, I'd say that even if she had fumbled the ball on this one, she probably has earned herself a little more leeway than one-and-done. No offense to Daphne and Oz, but the show just doesn't really have enough for both of them to do on a given episode. I hope it either gives them more stuff to do, or alternates between them, or mixes up the formula so that sometimes it's Morgan and Oz who are in the field and Karadec and Daphne working leads at the station and so forth. I do get why the family never told the investigators about Barry's supposedly blasting the war show and the porno. But one would have to wonder about whether they discussed such things, or the murder itself, amongst themselves. In the first place, it seems like it would be a weird choice for someone who just caused the scene he did and who was revealed to be a domestic abuser to then storm off and blast a war documentary. But then on top of that to switch to a porno and blast THAT loudly that people would feel the need to be like knock it off. One would expect that was odd behavior for the murder victim in general, but especially so when he had just been outed as an abuser and the whole family was pissed at him. Also, did Cody deliberately switch from a channel showing a war program to a porno? Because I don't think that would be a normal programming choice on most channels. Also, one would have to think that the family had its suspicions about who the murderer was. It seems clear that it had to be one of them because the security footage was deleted. So the jury should not have bought the coke dealer as a possible suspect, because if he had done it, he did not have the means or the opportunity to delete the video footage. Like I guess the family might be like "Well it's just as well Barry got got because he was a dickhead." But they had to wonder about who actually did it, right? And given that they actually prosecuted George, one might have thought that they would rally behind him if they thought he didn't do it, or that Cody's guilt might make him come forward. If Gramps was going to confess, he probably should have gotten the details from Cody to make the confession seem real. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567624
iMonrey 18 hours ago Share 18 hours ago (edited) 8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: Why wouldn't the cops have cuffed Cody and taken him away? He was a confessed murderer, even though he was contrite about it. The difference is, the case was already closed. They might take Cody into custody, but it's quite possible the DA won't want to prosecute given the circumstances: closed case with a confession by someone else on video. Either the grandfather lied or Cody is lying to clear his grandfather. Then throw Morgan into the mix. It seems like any defense attorney could get this case thrown out of court. I think it's more likely they would have taken Cody's statement then gone to the DA to ask what she wanted to do. They were all acting like it was open and shut and Cody was on his way to prison. There still has to be a court date with a judge regardless of whether Cody confessed or not. Also, I know it's the show's formula to have Morgan explain the whole case in one long monologue but I found it especially unrealistic Melon and the captain would just sit there with the whole family present while a "consultant" basically hypothesized what happened without cutting her off and shutting it down. I just thought this whole thing was more of a stretch than usual. Edited 18 hours ago by iMonrey 4 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567628
agathapenny 18 hours ago Share 18 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, chaifan said: And I mentioned this a few episodes back, but they seem to be turning Daphne into a Morgan wanna-be. A few episodes they had her sucking on a lollipop and then doing a Morganesque discovery of something or another. This time, it's the leather jacket. A much more toned down version of Morgan, but I swear she was more buttoned-up earlier in the season. A small note that doesn't negate your point: the lollipops are Daphne's, that Morgan takes from her desk. Edited 18 hours ago by agathapenny 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567631
gibasi 18 hours ago Share 18 hours ago I didn’t like this episode at all. It was too much exposition. It seemed to be just Karodec, Morgan and Soto standing around talking. Except when you had Daphne and Oz back at the station sitting on a couch and talking. The murder mystery was just not that interesting or difficult. Were they trying to go for a Knives Out vibe? It just didn’t work for me. Like a couple of others have said the whole thing was just too far fetched. Not that other episodes haven’t stretched reality but in this one I could not overlook it. It just was not a fun episode. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567652
chaifan 17 hours ago Share 17 hours ago (edited) 11 hours ago, agathapenny said: A small note that doesn't negate your point: the lollipops are Daphne's, that Morgan takes from her desk. Good catch! Now that you mention it, I do remember her taking the lollipop - the one that is featured in the main promo picture for the show - from someone's desk in the pilot episode. But I never realized it was Daphne. OK, so maybe my whole Daphne-emulating-Morgan theory is completely off. Edited 7 hours ago by chaifan 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567697
Chicago Redshirt 17 hours ago Share 17 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, iMonrey said: The difference is, the case was already closed. They might take Cody into custody, but it's quite possible the DA won't want to prosecute given the circumstances: closed case with a confession by someone else on video. Either the grandfather lied or Cody is lying to clear his grandfather. Then throw Morgan into the mix. It seems like any defense attorney could get this case thrown out of court. I think it's more likely they would have taken Cody's statement then gone to the DA to ask what she wanted to do. They were all acting like it was open and shut and Cody was on his way to prison. There still has to be a court date with a judge regardless of whether Cody confessed or not. Also, I know it's the show's formula to have Morgan explain the whole case in one long monologue but I found it especially unrealistic Melon and the captain would just sit there with the whole family present while a "consultant" basically hypothesized what happened without cutting her off and shutting it down. I just thought this whole thing was more of a stretch than usual. If they take Cody in custody, he should be cuffed. He's a grown man, and hell, even if they had suspected him back when he was 15, I would think it protocol to cuff anyone they'd arrest for transport for both the officers' safety and the suspect's. Yes, it's possible that the DA would not want to prosecute under the circumstances. But to be like, "Well, don't you go anywhere, we're going to check with the DA first before we arrest you and see what they want to do" strikes me as more unrealistic than what was shown. It also would be a massive example of class privilege and/or incompetence if a confessed murderer did not get arrested then and there. In fairness, the characters on this show and on most murder mystery shows act like it's a done deal that with the person's confession/arrest, their conviction is inevitable. Obviously in real life, sometimes confessions are not enough. In this particular case, it doesn't seem like Cody has much fight left so if the DA brings a case against him (which, again, one would have to imagine that they will given that it was such a heater case a decade ago), it shouldn't be an uphill battle to get a conviction. There is a little nugget of objective truth that is the foundation of Morgan's theories. Here, it's the fact that the one bathroom outlet nearest the shower did not match the rest of the bathroom. She formed a hypothesis on it that the killer had tried to use the old-school hair dryer to electrocute Barry and make it seem like a natural causes death and then resorted to panic when the outlet caught flame, and switched the scorched outlet cover with a mismatching one. Farfetched, but when they found proof corroborating Morgan's theory (scorching at the bathroom outlet, and the cover from the bathroom placed elsewhere) it basically invalidated George's confession, which has a hole in it on the face of the facts as they knew them: George had a hip replacement, making it very unlikely on its face that his geriatric ass could have carried Barry and positioned him in the sauna. It doesn't really make sense that Cody might be lying to protect George's reputation. George is dead and nothing as far as we know is going to change for George or the family if George is suspected of murder. Edited 16 hours ago by Chicago Redshirt 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567714
possibilities 17 hours ago Share 17 hours ago (edited) Regarding the lack of household help, I assumed they went home at night. I know some places have live-in staff, but I can easily buy that this family didn't. I also have no problem with the idea that everybody assumed the recently-discovered batterer was blasting the tv to be obnoxious. I would have been more doubtful that he would sem contrite and act considerate. I was actually suprrsed they didn't kick him out entirely. I think that if they decide not to do anything about the confession, they will hacve a problem because the divorced sister-in-law wants to sell her story and will probably make a lot of noise about it if they stick with the public story of the dad's confession, which she was adament was untrue. I enjoyed the scenes of Morgan looking at the case files while folding laundryl washing dishes, etc. Again, the mom parts of the show are great. It's rare that this aspect of a show is pleaseing to me, so I feel the need to praise it yet again. Edited 17 hours ago by possibilities 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567729
shapeshifter 16 hours ago Share 16 hours ago 1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said: did Cody deliberately switch from a channel showing a war program to a porno? Because I don't think that would be a normal programming choice on most channels. To me it looked like Cody had the remote in his pocket and accidentally bumped it, changing to the porn channel. 4 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567744
twoods 16 hours ago Share 16 hours ago (edited) Connie from the Mighty Ducks Movies! She looks amazing and thought at first she killed her husband because of the abuse, but then once they showed Cody coming downstairs to play Monopoly it made sense. I sort of wish that the case wasn’t solved (and it seemed like Morgan felt bad about it too) because he was trying to protect his mother against his trash father. Now that the Captain is a familiar face, I’m wondering if he will have anything to do with Morgan’s husband’s disappearance. The badge bit was really cute. Edited 16 hours ago by twoods 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567761
Raja 16 hours ago Share 16 hours ago 2 minutes ago, twoods said: Now that the Captain is a familiar face, I’m wondering if he will have anything to do with Morgan’s husband’s disappearance. He always plays shady characters. After all these years I still see him in Vanishing Son, the real update of Kung Fu. Instead of a priest playing the flute he was a modern violinist fleeing China after Tiananmen Square. No way that basic plot can be used in a movie today, but I still think TV can handle it. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567762
Yeah No 14 hours ago Share 14 hours ago On 1/29/2025 at 1:06 AM, agathapenny said: I guessed who the killer was early on, since I figured the TV changing channels was a misdirect that someone set up to make it look like Barry was still alive when he wasn't. But there was always a chance I was wrong, since there were a lot of good suspects. I guessed it too by the way the grandson reacted when he saw that his grandfather was going to confess to the murder. He had a guilty look on his face and said something like "Oh no, grandpa, you don't have to..." Of course I went back and looked at that scene again right after Morgan made me realize that Gramps didn't do it. 14 hours ago, shura said: I was thinking the same thing, but then again, at this point it's only the family's word that Barry was a monster, and in any case, one can't just go around killing bad people no matter how much they may deserve it. More importantly, there is no way a police captain can hear someone confess to a murder in front of witnesses and just let it go. And at that point Morgan had to make her case, otherwise both she and Soto were going to be canned. Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. 4 hours ago, chaifan said: I thought the bathroom outlet switch was weird. First, why would anyone bother putting the old/floral one on the bedroom wall? It would make more sense to just have an uncovered outlet, at least until one could get to Home Depot and pay .79 for a plastic outlet cover. And then to not switch it out for 10 years??? Are we to assume housekeepers in expensive mansions never move beds to clean? Or no one has painted or redecorated that room in 10 years? That was also pretty fast moving for a teen to find a screwdriver, undo one outlet cover, put it on in the bathroom, especially when it took 2 adults to move the bed. Especially since the outlet was behind the bed, I agree, why put the floral one on it? I get wanting to hide it behind the bed thinking no one would notice it there but suppose someone did notice it? It would lead them to the bathroom outlet. Just leaving it uncovered wouldn't do that. Or getting a cheap plain one from Home Depot. 3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: Like I guess the family might be like "Well it's just as well Barry got got because he was a dickhead." But they had to wonder about who actually did it, right? And given that they actually prosecuted George, one might have thought that they would rally behind him if they thought he didn't do it, or that Cody's guilt might make him come forward. If Gramps was going to confess, he probably should have gotten the details from Cody to make the confession seem real. Yeah it wasn't realistic that the family didn't seem to have talked about who might have done it at all. Very strange, or maybe they did know. It actually would have made more sense if they did know and were covering up for Cody. And did Gramps know specifically that Cody did it or did he confess because he generally knew that one of them had to have done it and didn't want any of them to continue to suffer over it? 3 hours ago, iMonrey said: Also, I know it's the show's formula to have Morgan explain the whole case in one long monologue but I found it especially unrealistic Melon and the captain would just sit there with the whole family present while a "consultant" basically hypothesized what happened without cutting her off and shutting it down. Yeah I thought that was a stretch especially after the reaming out the captain had just given all of them, esp. Morgan. Why would he just shut up and listen to her after all that? Not realistic. I thought last week's episode was a stretch but this week was even more of one in some ways. Also, on another topic, and this just may be because I don't know a lot about these things, but wouldn't any ME have known that the victim's neck broke after death? I know they can tell stuff like that sometimes. 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567782
chaifan 6 hours ago Share 6 hours ago The show could have taken the "premeditation" factor out of Cody's actions if they included a short scene of Cody going into the bathroom to talk to his dad. (I know, weird for this to happen while Barry is in the shower, but whatever.) Cody says he's going to take mom to the police in the morning and be a witness to the abuse. Barry makes some sort of threat, Cody sees the blow dryer and - on impulse - throws it in the shower. That could have been done in 30 seconds, would have made Cody a more of a sympathetic character in the end, and made the bit about him likely only getting 3 years a bit more believable. So murder goes to homicide, but there's still that mess of covering up the crime, burning a corpse, etc. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567902
Chicago Redshirt 6 hours ago Share 6 hours ago 8 hours ago, Yeah No said: Yeah it wasn't realistic that the family didn't seem to have talked about who might have done it at all. Very strange, or maybe they did know. It actually would have made more sense if they did know and were covering up for Cody. And did Gramps know specifically that Cody did it or did he confess because he generally knew that one of them had to have done it and didn't want any of them to continue to suffer over it? Yeah I thought that was a stretch especially after the reaming out the captain had just given all of them, esp. Morgan. Why would he just shut up and listen to her after all that? Not realistic. I thought last week's episode was a stretch but this week was even more of one in some ways. Also, on another topic, and this just may be because I don't know a lot about these things, but wouldn't any ME have known that the victim's neck broke after death? I know they can tell stuff like that sometimes. According to Cody, he told Gramps he was thinking of confessing and Gramps told him to hold off for a bit. So Gramps at the very end knew Cody did it. As portrayed, it seemed like it was news to everyone else. I am no forensics expert, but it would seem that the neck breaking happened close enough in time to the actual cause of death that it would not easily be distinguishable. I am wondering if an autopsy would have shown that in fact Barry died by electrocution rather than from the broken neck. I imagine that seeing the obvious broken neck it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that was the cause of death. But I would think that the way the heart was stopped via electrocution would yield signs that would be different if one thought to look for them. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567937
Chicago Redshirt 5 hours ago Share 5 hours ago 52 minutes ago, chaifan said: The show could have taken the "premeditation" factor out of Cody's actions if they included a short scene of Cody going into the bathroom to talk to his dad. (I know, weird for this to happen while Barry is in the shower, but whatever.) Cody says he's going to take mom to the police in the morning and be a witness to the abuse. Barry makes some sort of threat, Cody sees the blow dryer and - on impulse - throws it in the shower. That could have been done in 30 seconds, would have made Cody a more of a sympathetic character in the end, and made the bit about him likely only getting 3 years a bit more believable. So murder goes to homicide, but there's still that mess of covering up the crime, burning a corpse, etc. For the purpose of murder, premeditation doesn't have to be an elaborate scheme. There just has to be evidence that the killer wanted to kill. The premeditation element can be satisfied in an instant of the killer thinking "Yeah, I want this person dead" and then taking steps to make that happen. I think Cody was plenty sympathetic as he was, given the reality that he plotted a murder, carried out said murder, carried on a coverup, and remained silent while a person he knew was innocent was prosecuted for the crime he committed. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567983
shura 4 hours ago Share 4 hours ago 13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: Also, one would have to think that the family had its suspicions about who the murderer was. It seems clear that it had to be one of them because the security footage was deleted. So the jury should not have bought the coke dealer as a possible suspect, because if he had done it, he did not have the means or the opportunity to delete the video footage. Losing the video footage does not necessarily have to do with the murder though. A good defense team would probably have a reasonable explanation for how the video was lost that did not claim that the drug dealer deleted it. I wonder what the police thought of the video's disappearance. I guess they did not think it was significant, seeing how Soto was all "oh, yeah, the video was lost, no biggie" when Morgan asked about it? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8567994
Chicago Redshirt 4 hours ago Share 4 hours ago 3 minutes ago, shura said: Losing the video footage does not necessarily have to do with the murder though. A good defense team would probably have a reasonable explanation for how the video was lost that did not claim that the drug dealer deleted it. I wonder what the police thought of the video's disappearance. I guess they did not think it was significant, seeing how Soto was all "oh, yeah, the video was lost, no biggie" when Morgan asked about it? If it was just the case that the video system was down around that time, it doesn't necessarily implicate the family. Sure, it seems unlikely that right at the time there was a murder, the video system had a hiccup right when there was a murder, but it's at least possible. However, the way it was brought up was that the footage from the time was deleted, i.e., someone actively erased the footage. Even if an outsider knew about how extensively the house is under video surveillance and that they would need to delete it to cover their tracks, the outsider would almost certainly need the help of an insider to actually delete footage. (I'm operating under the assumption that some handwaving is necessary here and that in this digital era, anything that's deleted probably can be recovered if one does it soon enough/wants to badly enough, and also that it would be a fairly simple matter to track down who deleted the video footage. It is weird that Soto was so blase about the footage being deleted. The best explanation being that the writers threw in the thing about the video footage to cover up a perceived plot hole and/or offer a clue (I suspected Cody when told he had piqued MIT's interest and knowing that the murderer had to have some level of comfort with tech to delete footage). Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8568010
iMonrey 4 hours ago Share 4 hours ago 12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: It also would be a massive example of class privilege and/or incompetence if a confessed murderer did not get arrested then and there. If it's an open case, sure. But if someone walked into the police station and confessed to a crime that had already been solved and the case closed, I don't think they would be arrested on the spot. Their statement would be taken, then referred to the DA's office. And yes - class privilege does play into it, like it or not. I still say it's far more likely Cody would have been told to get a lawyer then come into the station with his lawyer and give a formal statement. 12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said: In this particular case, it doesn't seem like Cody has much fight left so if the DA brings a case against him (which, again, one would have to imagine that they will given that it was such a heater case a decade ago), it shouldn't be an uphill battle to get a conviction. Hard disagree. Cody might want to unburden himself but his mother is going to make damn sure he has a good lawyer. And the lawyer is going to sit down with the prosecutor and the judge and get Cody's confession tossed. I can think of half a dozen reasons it shouldn't be admissible. This was a far-fetched TV arrest. This isn't the kind of thing that gets resolved in an hour. And the show is giving Morgan far too much power. I get that it's the basis of the premise but it's getting out of hand. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8568016
Chicago Redshirt 4 hours ago Share 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, iMonrey said: If it's an open case, sure. But if someone walked into the police station and confessed to a crime that had already been solved and the case closed, I don't think they would be arrested on the spot. Their statement would be taken, then referred to the DA's office. And yes - class privilege does play into it, like it or not. I still say it's far more likely Cody would have been told to get a lawyer then come into the station with his lawyer and give a formal statement. Hard disagree. Cody might want to unburden himself but his mother is going to make damn sure he has a good lawyer. And the lawyer is going to sit down with the prosecutor and the judge and get Cody's confession tossed. I can think of half a dozen reasons it shouldn't be admissible. This was a far-fetched TV arrest. This isn't the kind of thing that gets resolved in an hour. And the show is giving Morgan far too much power. I get that it's the basis of the premise but it's getting out of hand. If the old confession seemed on its face to be false, and the new confession seemed genuine and better fit the facts as known, yes, it seems probable that the case would be reopened and the person would be at least arrested. Who do you mean would tell Cody to get a lawyer and come in the station to give a statement? If you mean his family, maybe. In this case, they didn't. If you are talking about the police, I'd guess they are generally not in the business of going out of their way to tell people to lawyer up, however. What are the half-dozen reasons you think the confession shouldn't be admissible? What're even two? Cody's confession was perfectly voluntary and knowing. That's all a confession needs to be admissible. Cody's an adult, he's intelligent, no threats or promises were made to him before his confession, and he was under no form of duress from Morgan or the police when he gave it. If you are thinking that Cody was not read his Miranda rights first, that is not an obstacle to the admissibility of his confession. Miranda rights only apply to people who are in custody and interrogated. At the time that Cody confessed, he was neither in custody nor being interrogated. Now a good lawyer might be able to get Cody to recant his confession if that's what he wanted to do. At the end of the show, Cody explicitly says he has had enough of living with his guilt and hopes that if he serves his sentence it will go away, so that would seem unlikely. The best lawyer in the world is not going to get an acquittal if the client is determined to plead guilty and serve his time. Assuming for discussion's sake that the lawyer does get Cody to walk his confession back, and then the prosecutor would have to convince the jury "believe the confession and this circumstantial evidence that got him to confess, and ignore that he later recanted" while the defense attorney would have to say "Ignore the confession and the circumstantial evidence pointing to my client, and believe that there's reasonable doubt." I suppose that could go either way, but I'd think it's a harder sell that he faked his confession or felt pressured to do it under the circumstances shown in the episode. (Morgan simply saying her theory of what happened). I'd say this was no more farfetched than any other TV murder arrest, and it's part of the genre/this show that Morgan is going to have the power to get people arrested by sorting through circumstantial evidence, coming up with a theory that points to a suspect, and then her or the team extracting a confession confirming Morgan's theory. It's happened 11 times now, and it'll probably happen in most shows in the future. It would be nice, say, if one of Morgan's wackadoo theories proves to be wrong, and Daphne or Oz finds the key to figuring out whodunnit, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8568032
shapeshifter 3 hours ago Share 3 hours ago Can Cody's lawyer make a case that Cody thought his mother's life was in danger, and, at 15, he would not have considered notifying the police? Or even that his family would not brook his reporting it? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/151611-s01e11-the-sauna-at-the-end-of-the-stairs/#findComment-8568043
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