Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Palimelon]

Quote

I've often though if you want to prevent or end wars. Force the rich and politicans to send themselves or their children to war. They would find a way end war so fast if they actually had to risk their own lives or their kids. 

Also make it illegal for politicians and their family members to own stock in any military related companies.

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

Remember that old bumper sticker, "If men could get pregnant, you'd be able to get an abortion at Walmart"?

I have one that quotes Gloria Steinem:  If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

[RealHousewife]

I just want to say how much I enjoy this thread. I hope we are able to keep it. 

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I just want to say how much I enjoy this thread. I hope we are able to keep it. 

Same.  I really want to let the mods here know how much I appreciate this thread.  It's kept me sane!

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

Same.  I really want to let the mods here know how much I appreciate this thread.  It's kept me sane!

Me three.  It's my safe place.  I need to talk about all of it and this is place has been where I'm able to do that and get feedback from all of you. So yes thank you Mods.

[kittykat]

Oooh ooh oooooh me too!  I feel like this is old school Thanksgiving.  We laugh, cry, argue, agree, disagree, learn something and at the end we all raise a glass and cheer.  Thumbs up to the great experiment.

 

[Palimelon]

And then we go watch The Hunger Games at our local Walmart.

[PRgal]

I'm probably on further right than many of you, but still, this place is safer than being on regular social where I've been berated in and out for the past few years.  I'm now trying to stay away from the fertility/donor conceived boards because they're even BIGGER on "my way or the high way" perspective.  I'm always trying to offer a more international view, but they'll have none of that.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

Actors are persons too.

Granted, Trump is crazy either way...

"“Everyone says he is crazy – which maybe he is – but the scarier thing about him is that he is stupid. You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”

-Fran Lebowitz

[Dimity]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Fran Lebowitz

I love her!

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I love her!

I do too. I've read a couple of her books and she's so sharp and funny. And she's a New Yorker's New Yorker.

[bluegirl147]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

"“Everyone says he is crazy – which maybe he is – but the scarier thing about him is that he is stupid. You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”

-Fran Lebowitz

He really is stupid. But the scarier thing is people cover for him.  The hurricane thing with him mistakenly saying Alabama was in the danger zone and instead of admitting he was wrong he used a sharpie to include Alabama.  And nobody corrected him.

What happens this time when he mistakenly orders a drone hit on the wrong target?

Edited 6 hours ago by bluegirl147

[kittykat]

I have an anthology that contains both Metropolitan Life and Social Studies. Great reads.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And nobody corrected him.

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

I've been saying this for at least 4 yrs.  As much as a problem as he is and he is a gigantic fucking problem it's his cult members and all the politicians and Supreme Court justices that do his bidding.  They never tell him no. They tell him how brilliant he is.  And the man is not charismatic at all. At least to me he isn't.  JFK, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama they all had that spark that made people think I'm going to put my trust in him.  But Trump is just some old fat dumb guy that can't quit talking about how great he is.

[Ancaster]

15 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

I used to say this about Thatcher.  I know that I tend to be judgemental and I genuinely make an effort not to be.  But with these two (Trump and Thatcher) there's nothing I can do but hate.

[fastiller]

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Also make it illegal for politicians and their family members to own stock in any military related companies.

This was posted in relation to having the wealthy/politicians have to send their own flesh and blood to war as a way to stop wars happening.  I'll go one further: make it illegal for pols & their family to own stock in ANY COMPANY AT ALL.

And while I'm here, several pages back a few folks were talking about doing away with the Electoral College, which should happen but won't.  about 10-15 years ago, at some family dinner, we came up with a bunch of things that need to be done to improve elections (none of which will be done).  I don't recall all of our ideas. Allow me please to fantasize.  Please add to this list. 

1. Electoral College - gone.

2. Fully publicly funded elections - all elections (from POTUS to dog catcher (do any jurisdictions elect the dog catcher?)).  Can be scaled depending on whether it's a federal position or state.  Zero private $$ - even from the candidates themselves. Give or take private $ and go to jail.

3. Term limits for all positions (from POTUS to dog catcher).  Yes, I've heard that elections are the term limits, but the power of incumbency is so strong many elections just don't matter.  Doesn't have to be two terms for all positions: the House can be limited to 5 terms (10 years s/b enough).  Doesn't mean a House member can't 'progress' to the Senate.

4. Campaigns to start no more than 90 days prior to election day.

We had something to mitigate lobbying but I forget our logic on that - it was a family dinner, we probably imbibed quite a bit that evening.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by fastiller

[GHScorpiosRule]

I took a gazillion pictures but these are some of my faves:

Not the clearest as I was too far!

 

[Ancaster]

1 hour ago, fastiller said:

This was posted in relation to having the wealthy/politicians have to send their own flesh and blood to war as a way to stop wars happening.  I'll go one further: make it illegal for pols & their family to own stock in ANY COMPANY AT ALL.

And while I'm here, several pages back a few folks were talking about doing away with the Electoral College, which should happen but won't.  about 10-15 years ago, at some family dinner, we came up with a bunch of things that need to be done to improve elections (none of which will be done).  I don't recall all of our ideas. Allow me please to fantasize.  Please add to this list. 

1. Electoral College - gone.

2. Fully publicly funded elections - all elections (from POTUS to dog catcher (do any jurisdictions elect the dog catcher?)).  Can be scaled depending on whether it's a federal position or state.  Zero private $$ - even from the candidates themselves. Give to take private $ and go to jail.

3. Term limits for all positions (from POTUS to dog catcher).  Yes, I've heard that elections are the term limits, but the power of incumbency is so strong many elections just don't matter.  Doesn't have to be two terms for all positions: the House can be limited to 5 terms (10 years s/b enough).  Doesn't mean a House member can't 'progress' to the Senate.

4. Campaigns to start no more than 90 days prior to election day.

We had something to mitigate lobbying but I forget our logic on that - it was a family dinner, we probably imbibed quite a bit that evening.

 

Is there any way you can dredge up some citizenship to a civilized country?

Edited 4 hours ago by Ancaster

[Ohiopirate02]

45 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I took a gazillion pictures but these are some of my faves:

Not the clearest as I was too far!

 

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. And the manicure i just got in one of my top 5 favorite colors.

Edited 4 hours ago by Ohiopirate02

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. 

Yes. At least for me, as I stated upthread.

And now I can attest, watching him speak on television and actually seeing him speak in person, isn't the same. Seeing him....wow. Even if I wasn't close enough to shake his hand.

[PRgal]

40 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. And the manicure i just got in one of my top 5 favorite colors.

You heard LeVar?  Lucky you!!!!!

[tearknee]

2 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I used to say this about Thatcher.  I know that I tend to be judgemental and I genuinely make an effort not to be.  But with these two (Trump and Thatcher) there's nothing I can do but hate.

Had James Callaghan gone to the people in October or had those in the unions been a bit smarter....
(then again, "smarter Scargill in 1984" also isn't easy to get from what i have read)

[Dimity]

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, Eri said:

I've seen this too. Any interviews I've heard from MAGAs, "Not Trump," "Pro-life" and (scarily even) "Pro choice" conservatives from swing states (and anywhere really) over the last year has all been "Trump's just talking out his butt and just saying what he needs to in order get votes." 

"Of COURSE, he's not going to deport all those immigrants..just the murderers, rapists and gang leaders."

"Nah, he's not REALLY going to invoke a national abortion ban."

"Tariffs? Well...that's all speculation at this point"

Their mindset being that they can "read between the lines" of what Trump is saying vs what is actually happening....or they blindly think Congress will keep him in check despite all the rhetoric. Even people whose businesses will hurt by these tariffs will still give him the benefit of the doubt because of some other issue (abortion, immigration, crime, etc).

It doesn't seem to register to him that if a presidential candidate has to fearmonger like this in order to get votes, that is a problem in and of itself but whatever I guess 🙃

.....and despite ALL that they'll still vote for a higher minimum wage, paid sick leave, abortion protections or any progressive policy in their state. I just don't buy that not all of them are aware of the consequences - they simply do not care about the potential suffering to others.

This is what confuses me ,though (well, it's one of many things that confuses me about Trump supporters, but still). If people think his big claims aren't meant to be taken that seriously, then why did they even vote for him in the first place? it's a little rich to hear them be like "Oh, he won't REALLY do that stuff, he's just exaggerating." and they're okay with voting for him despite making wild claims that he may neve be able to follow through on...

...but they couldn't vote for Harris because they just didn't know enough about her or felt she wasn't specific enough on her policies. And Trump was? Mr. "Concepts of a plan"? They want specifics but they're also fine with voting for a guy who'll spout exaggerated claims and promises of all the stuff he wants to do? Okay. I guess that makes sense somewhere...?

7 hours ago, partofme said:

I’m really happy your friend was okay, and I have nothing against any of the first responders, they are all heroes, I’m talking about Republican politicians, they created a really bad atmosphere in the US post 9/11, I lived in New York and there was no coming together in any real way.  

Yep. They were all too happy to use 9/11 for their own political gain ("Vote for me, 'cause we can't ever forget 9/11 and the terrorists will win if you don't vote for me/us!" And of course Giuliani and his "$9.11" fundraiser, 'cause, y'know, he was mayor on 9/11, just in case anyone forgot that)...

...and yet at the same time they were also dismissing New York City as not part of "real America". No, it was full of all those "liberal elites" whose values wouldn't possibly align with those of us here over in "real America", aka flyover country. They talked out of both sides of their mouths when it came to New York and 9/11 and were more than happy to stoke the flams. 

And the anti-Muslim sentiment carried over into when Obama ran for office in 2008. He wasn't really from here, according to the GOP, he was a secret Muslim who was going to implement Sharia law, his views and beliefs weren't in line with what American voters wanted. And of course, his middle name was Hussein, 'cause as we all know, everyone who shares a name is clearly exactly like each other in every way!

That was the kind of bullshit I remember in the post-9/11 world, along with the other stuff people mentioned. Here in Iowa there's not really a big Muslim population (I honestly don't know how many Muslims live here, but I'd say it's a safe bet it's a fairly small number), but I also lived in a very conservative area of the state at that time and I remember some of my high school classmates, circal 2001 to 2003, being very gung-ho pro-war and pro-Bush and all that. 

(That said, some of us did participate in a school walkout to protest the invasion of Iraq. I remember some people driving by and honking their horns in support, and one guy stopping his car, getting out, and yelling at us all to get jobs. I also remember it being REALLY cold that day :p. But still.)

Regarding all the talk about younger voters and their ignorance of history and negative attitudes towards older generations, from my observations, there are three distinct reasons for this: 

-They do know that prior generations were part of various movements, but they also know that a lot of people from the "boomer" generation seemed to turn their backs on a lot of the ideals they once fought for. Some of the same people form that genration who fought to let men grow their hair long and let women wear pants to school are the same ones now having meltdowns over pronouns and transgender people, for instance. Or they took a hard right and voted for Reagan and helped usher in the era that allowed Reagan and his administration to kickstart a lot of the shit we're still dealing with now. 

And then they see their fellow classmates getting shot and killed at school and adults around them just...not pushing to fight to put a stop to this, or caring more about their guns than students' safety, and they're listening to their parents/grandparents dismissing climate change, which is something that's going to clearly have a significant impact on younger generations going forward - the older generations won't be around to deal with the effects/don't think it's real, so they just shrug it off and vote for poeple who also dismiss and refuse to do anything about it.

And so on and so forth. Obviously, of course, this is not true of everyone from that generation. My mom is of that generation and she would and does completely side with younger generations' concerns about this stuff, and votes accordingly. As others have noted here, there were/are plenty of people from older generations who put in a lot of time and effort and hard work for progressive causes, and I can only imagine how incredilby devastating it has to be for those of you who fought so hard to see people actively trying to dismantle everything you worked so hard for. 

But I do think for some younger people ,that is where their heads are at with this stuff, fair critique or not. And if they're hearing parents and grandparents in their own everyday lives echoing conservative views and refusing to support progressive policies and complaining about how young people today are too "woke" and "sensitive snowflakes" and whatnot, they'll then take that and just kind of expand it to a negative view of people of those generations as a whole. I think the whole "OK boomer" thing was basically the result of them being tired of all the negative stereotypes they kept hearing about their own generation, so they threw it back at boomers as sort of a "How do you like it?" sort of response. 

-All of that being said, however, younger people are also shooting themselves in the foot as well, because a lot of younger people don't vote as often as they should. And a large part of that is because we're in an era now where people feel like a political candidate has to fit the most perfect checklist imaginable in order to be worthy of someone's vote. A lot of younger people were really not happy with Biden/Harris' stances on the Israle-Palestine conflict, for instance, and so some of them just refused to vote, or did a protest vote. 

Of course, that's completely backfired on them and on the people they support, 'cause now Trump and the GOP are in power and if anyone thinks they're going tto be even remotely helpful to the Palestinian people, then they are clearly living in a delusional fantasyland. 

But yeah,  I do think younger people have a hard time with the idea that you may not agree with everything a politician says or does, but in that case it's more a matter of pragmatic voting and who of the two candidates is more likely to give you at least SOME of what you want, if not all of it. I've mentioned Obama before - I was eager to vote for him in 2008 and was obviously happy when he won. My biggest critique of him, however, was that he'd been so muted about the topic of same-sex marriage on the campaign trail. 

But I still voted for him anyway because I knew that he did support some policies that would benefit same-sex couples, and in the end, look what happened during his term. He was able to appoint SC judges that helped ensure same-sex marriage became legal in all fifty states. And "don't ask, don't tell" ended on his watch as well. And all because he listened to those who kept pushing for more beyond what he'd been promising on the campaign trail, he took their advice on board, and he worked with them to ensure that that sort of monumental policy change happened. 

Bottom line being, you can't always predict how someone will be as president based on what they do and don't say on the campaign trail. Certainly I hope that whomever I vote for will check off most, if not all, of the boxes in regards to the issues I'm most concerned about. 

But I also would much rather vote for someone who I know I will be able to agree with at least some of the time, than sit out and just not bother and wind up stuck with someone who I know full well has no interest in advancing ANY of the policies I want, and will instead actually make things worse in that regard.

But yeah. That's another big factor as well. It's one that people across all generations are guilty of  to some degree, but I do think it's a particularly big issue among younger voters  especially. 

Also, I will say, in their defense, it really doesn't help that our government generally tends to skew older. There are younger people in ofiice, obviously, and some of them have been making good names for themselves, but when you look at clips of the government on TV and it's just old white guy after old white guy after old white guy much of the time, well...it's hard for younger people to look at that and wonder if they're even aware of anything younger generations care about. 

-The third reason is one that they literally can't control, and that's the fact that there are groups and people in this country that are actively trying to keep students from learning about all the significant movements that have happened in this country over the years. So if younger people aren't aware of all the hard work the generations before them put in, it may be because they literally were not taught about any of it. Can't let children learn about progressive ideals and mindsets and how to be an active particpatnt in politics, after all, that might lead them to have the wacky idea that they too could change the world and push to make some of that stuff a reality! 

But hey, at least they'll get to be forced to read the Bible in school, so there's that. 

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I think young men and this might sound silly, but they grew up watching WWE and UFC fighters.  They like tough guys. Doesn't matter Trump isn't actually a tough guy but he plays one on TV. And as someone above mentioned people like Joe Rogan like Trump so these young men are going along with what their peers are doing..

Yep. Way too many younger men nowadays are being exposed to guys like this or Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson and getting a lot of toxic anti-women attitudes from it. And then on top of that we have Trump out here spewing the most vile, misogynistic comments about women and minorities, and getting rewarded for it, and other politiicans who talk about how "men should be men" and "women should be women". 

It's just a really nasty atmosphere and it's causing a lot of young men to grow up with some very, very awful attitudes and beliefs as a result. 

[Dimity]

30 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Of course, that's completely backfired on them and on the people they support, 'cause now Trump and the GOP are in power and if anyone thinks they're going tto be even remotely helpful to the Palestinian people, then they are clearly living in a delusional fantasyland. 

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

[bluegirl147]

20 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

Plenty of people always blame Democrats for their not getting what they want. Things like paid family leave.  $15 minimum wage.  Medicare for all.  Funny how they don't blame Republicans who consistently vote against anything having to do with those things.  So if things in Gaza get worse if that is even possible once Trump takes office again I'm sure we will hear some people say it's Biden's fault.

[peacheslatour]

58 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

Don't let perfect become the enemy of good.

[Makai]

The architect of Project 2025 is Trump’s pick to head the Office of Management and Budget. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.