Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

Remember that old bumper sticker, "If men could get pregnant, you'd be able to get an abortion at Walmart"?

I have one that quotes Gloria Steinem:  If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

[RealHousewife]

I just want to say how much I enjoy this thread. I hope we are able to keep it. 

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I just want to say how much I enjoy this thread. I hope we are able to keep it. 

Same.  I really want to let the mods here know how much I appreciate this thread.  It's kept me sane!

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

Same.  I really want to let the mods here know how much I appreciate this thread.  It's kept me sane!

Me three.  It's my safe place.  I need to talk about all of it and this is place has been where I'm able to do that and get feedback from all of you. So yes thank you Mods.

[kittykat]

Oooh ooh oooooh me too!  I feel like this is old school Thanksgiving.  We laugh, cry, argue, agree, disagree, learn something and at the end we all raise a glass and cheer.  Thumbs up to the great experiment.

 

[Palimelon]

And then we go watch The Hunger Games at our local Walmart.

[PRgal]

I'm probably on further right than many of you, but still, this place is safer than being on regular social where I've been berated in and out for the past few years.  I'm now trying to stay away from the fertility/donor conceived boards because they're even BIGGER on "my way or the high way" perspective.  I'm always trying to offer a more international view, but they'll have none of that.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

Actors are persons too.

Granted, Trump is crazy either way...

"“Everyone says he is crazy – which maybe he is – but the scarier thing about him is that he is stupid. You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”

-Fran Lebowitz

[Dimity]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Fran Lebowitz

I love her!

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I love her!

I do too. I've read a couple of her books and she's so sharp and funny. And she's a New Yorker's New Yorker.

[bluegirl147]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

"“Everyone says he is crazy – which maybe he is – but the scarier thing about him is that he is stupid. You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”

-Fran Lebowitz

He really is stupid. But the scarier thing is people cover for him.  The hurricane thing with him mistakenly saying Alabama was in the danger zone and instead of admitting he was wrong he used a sharpie to include Alabama.  And nobody corrected him.

What happens this time when he mistakenly orders a drone hit on the wrong target?

Edited November 22 by bluegirl147

[kittykat]

I have an anthology that contains both Metropolitan Life and Social Studies. Great reads.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And nobody corrected him.

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

I've been saying this for at least 4 yrs.  As much as a problem as he is and he is a gigantic fucking problem it's his cult members and all the politicians and Supreme Court justices that do his bidding.  They never tell him no. They tell him how brilliant he is.  And the man is not charismatic at all. At least to me he isn't.  JFK, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama they all had that spark that made people think I'm going to put my trust in him.  But Trump is just some old fat dumb guy that can't quit talking about how great he is.

[Ancaster]

15 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I hate Trump, I mean hate in a way I never thought I could hate someone but sometimes I realize that hate is somewhat misdirected.  It's the enablers and bootlickers and cowards surrounding him that are the most contemptible. 

I used to say this about Thatcher.  I know that I tend to be judgemental and I genuinely make an effort not to be.  But with these two (Trump and Thatcher) there's nothing I can do but hate.

[fastiller]

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Also make it illegal for politicians and their family members to own stock in any military related companies.

This was posted in relation to having the wealthy/politicians have to send their own flesh and blood to war as a way to stop wars happening.  I'll go one further: make it illegal for pols & their family to own stock in ANY COMPANY AT ALL.

And while I'm here, several pages back a few folks were talking about doing away with the Electoral College, which should happen but won't.  about 10-15 years ago, at some family dinner, we came up with a bunch of things that need to be done to improve elections (none of which will be done).  I don't recall all of our ideas. Allow me please to fantasize.  Please add to this list. 

1. Electoral College - gone.

2. Fully publicly funded elections - all elections (from POTUS to dog catcher (do any jurisdictions elect the dog catcher?)).  Can be scaled depending on whether it's a federal position or state.  Zero private $$ - even from the candidates themselves. Give or take private $ and go to jail.

3. Term limits for all positions (from POTUS to dog catcher).  Yes, I've heard that elections are the term limits, but the power of incumbency is so strong many elections just don't matter.  Doesn't have to be two terms for all positions: the House can be limited to 5 terms (10 years s/b enough).  Doesn't mean a House member can't 'progress' to the Senate.

4. Campaigns to start no more than 90 days prior to election day.

We had something to mitigate lobbying but I forget our logic on that - it was a family dinner, we probably imbibed quite a bit that evening.

 

Edited November 22 by fastiller

[GHScorpiosRule]

I took a gazillion pictures but these are some of my faves:

Not the clearest as I was too far!

 

[Ancaster]

1 hour ago, fastiller said:

This was posted in relation to having the wealthy/politicians have to send their own flesh and blood to war as a way to stop wars happening.  I'll go one further: make it illegal for pols & their family to own stock in ANY COMPANY AT ALL.

And while I'm here, several pages back a few folks were talking about doing away with the Electoral College, which should happen but won't.  about 10-15 years ago, at some family dinner, we came up with a bunch of things that need to be done to improve elections (none of which will be done).  I don't recall all of our ideas. Allow me please to fantasize.  Please add to this list. 

1. Electoral College - gone.

2. Fully publicly funded elections - all elections (from POTUS to dog catcher (do any jurisdictions elect the dog catcher?)).  Can be scaled depending on whether it's a federal position or state.  Zero private $$ - even from the candidates themselves. Give to take private $ and go to jail.

3. Term limits for all positions (from POTUS to dog catcher).  Yes, I've heard that elections are the term limits, but the power of incumbency is so strong many elections just don't matter.  Doesn't have to be two terms for all positions: the House can be limited to 5 terms (10 years s/b enough).  Doesn't mean a House member can't 'progress' to the Senate.

4. Campaigns to start no more than 90 days prior to election day.

We had something to mitigate lobbying but I forget our logic on that - it was a family dinner, we probably imbibed quite a bit that evening.

 

Is there any way you can dredge up some citizenship to a civilized country?

Edited November 22 by Ancaster

[Ohiopirate02]

45 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I took a gazillion pictures but these are some of my faves:

Not the clearest as I was too far!

 

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. And the manicure i just got in one of my top 5 favorite colors.

Edited November 22 by Ohiopirate02

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. 

Yes. At least for me, as I stated upthread.

And now I can attest, watching him speak on television and actually seeing him speak in person, isn't the same. Seeing him....wow. Even if I wasn't close enough to shake his hand.

[PRgal]

40 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was this a balm to the soul? I ask because I got the chance to hear LeVar Burton speak last week, and it was soothing. So are the redacted amount of cocktails I have consumed in New Orleans today. And the manicure i just got in one of my top 5 favorite colors.

You heard LeVar?  Lucky you!!!!!

[tearknee]

2 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I used to say this about Thatcher.  I know that I tend to be judgemental and I genuinely make an effort not to be.  But with these two (Trump and Thatcher) there's nothing I can do but hate.

Had James Callaghan gone to the people in October or had those in the unions been a bit smarter....
(then again, "smarter Scargill in 1984" also isn't easy to get from what i have read)

[Dimity]

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, Eri said:

I've seen this too. Any interviews I've heard from MAGAs, "Not Trump," "Pro-life" and (scarily even) "Pro choice" conservatives from swing states (and anywhere really) over the last year has all been "Trump's just talking out his butt and just saying what he needs to in order get votes." 

"Of COURSE, he's not going to deport all those immigrants..just the murderers, rapists and gang leaders."

"Nah, he's not REALLY going to invoke a national abortion ban."

"Tariffs? Well...that's all speculation at this point"

Their mindset being that they can "read between the lines" of what Trump is saying vs what is actually happening....or they blindly think Congress will keep him in check despite all the rhetoric. Even people whose businesses will hurt by these tariffs will still give him the benefit of the doubt because of some other issue (abortion, immigration, crime, etc).

It doesn't seem to register to him that if a presidential candidate has to fearmonger like this in order to get votes, that is a problem in and of itself but whatever I guess 🙃

.....and despite ALL that they'll still vote for a higher minimum wage, paid sick leave, abortion protections or any progressive policy in their state. I just don't buy that not all of them are aware of the consequences - they simply do not care about the potential suffering to others.

This is what confuses me ,though (well, it's one of many things that confuses me about Trump supporters, but still). If people think his big claims aren't meant to be taken that seriously, then why did they even vote for him in the first place? it's a little rich to hear them be like "Oh, he won't REALLY do that stuff, he's just exaggerating." and they're okay with voting for him despite making wild claims that he may neve be able to follow through on...

...but they couldn't vote for Harris because they just didn't know enough about her or felt she wasn't specific enough on her policies. And Trump was? Mr. "Concepts of a plan"? They want specifics but they're also fine with voting for a guy who'll spout exaggerated claims and promises of all the stuff he wants to do? Okay. I guess that makes sense somewhere...?

7 hours ago, partofme said:

I’m really happy your friend was okay, and I have nothing against any of the first responders, they are all heroes, I’m talking about Republican politicians, they created a really bad atmosphere in the US post 9/11, I lived in New York and there was no coming together in any real way.  

Yep. They were all too happy to use 9/11 for their own political gain ("Vote for me, 'cause we can't ever forget 9/11 and the terrorists will win if you don't vote for me/us!" And of course Giuliani and his "$9.11" fundraiser, 'cause, y'know, he was mayor on 9/11, just in case anyone forgot that)...

...and yet at the same time they were also dismissing New York City as not part of "real America". No, it was full of all those "liberal elites" whose values wouldn't possibly align with those of us here over in "real America", aka flyover country. They talked out of both sides of their mouths when it came to New York and 9/11 and were more than happy to stoke the flams. 

And the anti-Muslim sentiment carried over into when Obama ran for office in 2008. He wasn't really from here, according to the GOP, he was a secret Muslim who was going to implement Sharia law, his views and beliefs weren't in line with what American voters wanted. And of course, his middle name was Hussein, 'cause as we all know, everyone who shares a name is clearly exactly like each other in every way!

That was the kind of bullshit I remember in the post-9/11 world, along with the other stuff people mentioned. Here in Iowa there's not really a big Muslim population (I honestly don't know how many Muslims live here, but I'd say it's a safe bet it's a fairly small number), but I also lived in a very conservative area of the state at that time and I remember some of my high school classmates, circal 2001 to 2003, being very gung-ho pro-war and pro-Bush and all that. 

(That said, some of us did participate in a school walkout to protest the invasion of Iraq. I remember some people driving by and honking their horns in support, and one guy stopping his car, getting out, and yelling at us all to get jobs. I also remember it being REALLY cold that day :p. But still.)

Regarding all the talk about younger voters and their ignorance of history and negative attitudes towards older generations, from my observations, there are three distinct reasons for this: 

-They do know that prior generations were part of various movements, but they also know that a lot of people from the "boomer" generation seemed to turn their backs on a lot of the ideals they once fought for. Some of the same people form that genration who fought to let men grow their hair long and let women wear pants to school are the same ones now having meltdowns over pronouns and transgender people, for instance. Or they took a hard right and voted for Reagan and helped usher in the era that allowed Reagan and his administration to kickstart a lot of the shit we're still dealing with now. 

And then they see their fellow classmates getting shot and killed at school and adults around them just...not pushing to fight to put a stop to this, or caring more about their guns than students' safety, and they're listening to their parents/grandparents dismissing climate change, which is something that's going to clearly have a significant impact on younger generations going forward - the older generations won't be around to deal with the effects/don't think it's real, so they just shrug it off and vote for poeple who also dismiss and refuse to do anything about it.

And so on and so forth. Obviously, of course, this is not true of everyone from that generation. My mom is of that generation and she would and does completely side with younger generations' concerns about this stuff, and votes accordingly. As others have noted here, there were/are plenty of people from older generations who put in a lot of time and effort and hard work for progressive causes, and I can only imagine how incredilby devastating it has to be for those of you who fought so hard to see people actively trying to dismantle everything you worked so hard for. 

But I do think for some younger people ,that is where their heads are at with this stuff, fair critique or not. And if they're hearing parents and grandparents in their own everyday lives echoing conservative views and refusing to support progressive policies and complaining about how young people today are too "woke" and "sensitive snowflakes" and whatnot, they'll then take that and just kind of expand it to a negative view of people of those generations as a whole. I think the whole "OK boomer" thing was basically the result of them being tired of all the negative stereotypes they kept hearing about their own generation, so they threw it back at boomers as sort of a "How do you like it?" sort of response. 

-All of that being said, however, younger people are also shooting themselves in the foot as well, because a lot of younger people don't vote as often as they should. And a large part of that is because we're in an era now where people feel like a political candidate has to fit the most perfect checklist imaginable in order to be worthy of someone's vote. A lot of younger people were really not happy with Biden/Harris' stances on the Israle-Palestine conflict, for instance, and so some of them just refused to vote, or did a protest vote. 

Of course, that's completely backfired on them and on the people they support, 'cause now Trump and the GOP are in power and if anyone thinks they're going tto be even remotely helpful to the Palestinian people, then they are clearly living in a delusional fantasyland. 

But yeah,  I do think younger people have a hard time with the idea that you may not agree with everything a politician says or does, but in that case it's more a matter of pragmatic voting and who of the two candidates is more likely to give you at least SOME of what you want, if not all of it. I've mentioned Obama before - I was eager to vote for him in 2008 and was obviously happy when he won. My biggest critique of him, however, was that he'd been so muted about the topic of same-sex marriage on the campaign trail. 

But I still voted for him anyway because I knew that he did support some policies that would benefit same-sex couples, and in the end, look what happened during his term. He was able to appoint SC judges that helped ensure same-sex marriage became legal in all fifty states. And "don't ask, don't tell" ended on his watch as well. And all because he listened to those who kept pushing for more beyond what he'd been promising on the campaign trail, he took their advice on board, and he worked with them to ensure that that sort of monumental policy change happened. 

Bottom line being, you can't always predict how someone will be as president based on what they do and don't say on the campaign trail. Certainly I hope that whomever I vote for will check off most, if not all, of the boxes in regards to the issues I'm most concerned about. 

But I also would much rather vote for someone who I know I will be able to agree with at least some of the time, than sit out and just not bother and wind up stuck with someone who I know full well has no interest in advancing ANY of the policies I want, and will instead actually make things worse in that regard.

But yeah. That's another big factor as well. It's one that people across all generations are guilty of  to some degree, but I do think it's a particularly big issue among younger voters  especially. 

Also, I will say, in their defense, it really doesn't help that our government generally tends to skew older. There are younger people in ofiice, obviously, and some of them have been making good names for themselves, but when you look at clips of the government on TV and it's just old white guy after old white guy after old white guy much of the time, well...it's hard for younger people to look at that and wonder if they're even aware of anything younger generations care about. 

-The third reason is one that they literally can't control, and that's the fact that there are groups and people in this country that are actively trying to keep students from learning about all the significant movements that have happened in this country over the years. So if younger people aren't aware of all the hard work the generations before them put in, it may be because they literally were not taught about any of it. Can't let children learn about progressive ideals and mindsets and how to be an active particpatnt in politics, after all, that might lead them to have the wacky idea that they too could change the world and push to make some of that stuff a reality! 

But hey, at least they'll get to be forced to read the Bible in school, so there's that. 

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I think young men and this might sound silly, but they grew up watching WWE and UFC fighters.  They like tough guys. Doesn't matter Trump isn't actually a tough guy but he plays one on TV. And as someone above mentioned people like Joe Rogan like Trump so these young men are going along with what their peers are doing..

Yep. Way too many younger men nowadays are being exposed to guys like this or Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson and getting a lot of toxic anti-women attitudes from it. And then on top of that we have Trump out here spewing the most vile, misogynistic comments about women and minorities, and getting rewarded for it, and other politiicans who talk about how "men should be men" and "women should be women". 

It's just a really nasty atmosphere and it's causing a lot of young men to grow up with some very, very awful attitudes and beliefs as a result. 

[Dimity]

30 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Of course, that's completely backfired on them and on the people they support, 'cause now Trump and the GOP are in power and if anyone thinks they're going tto be even remotely helpful to the Palestinian people, then they are clearly living in a delusional fantasyland. 

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

[bluegirl147]

20 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

Plenty of people always blame Democrats for their not getting what they want. Things like paid family leave.  $15 minimum wage.  Medicare for all.  Funny how they don't blame Republicans who consistently vote against anything having to do with those things.  So if things in Gaza get worse if that is even possible once Trump takes office again I'm sure we will hear some people say it's Biden's fault.

[peacheslatour]

58 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

Don't let perfect become the enemy of good.

[Makai]

The architect of Project 2025 is Trump’s pick to head the Office of Management and Budget. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

[Eri]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

If people think his big claims aren't meant to be taken that seriously, then why did they even vote for him in the first place? it's a little rich to hear them be like "Oh, he won't REALLY do that stuff, he's just exaggerating." and they're okay with voting for him despite making wild claims that he may neve be able to follow through on...

...but they couldn't vote for Harris because they just didn't know enough about her or felt she wasn't specific enough on her policies. And Trump was? Mr. "Concepts of a plan"? They want specifics but they're also fine with voting for a guy who'll spout exaggerated claims and promises of all the stuff he wants to do? Okay. I guess that makes sense somewhere...?

Well if Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones or Fox News tells me so, then it MUST be true right? Lol But on a serious note, no they don't care about specifics. If people were as interested in the specifics as us, Trump would've lost. Not that it will matter now, while Project 2025 becomes our new "Constitution" 😓

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

-All of that being said, however, younger people are also shooting themselves in the foot as well, because a lot of younger people don't vote as often as they should. And a large part of that is because we're in an era now where people feel like a political candidate has to fit the most perfect checklist imaginable in order to be worthy of someone's vote. A lot of younger people were really not happy with Biden/Harris' stances on the Israle-Palestine conflict, for instance, and so some of them just refused to vote, or did a protest vote. 

Yes, I see this a lot (in Independents especially) from the 18-34 yo adults who are paying attention to politics - they can disparage Republicans and Democrats all day long because they're waiting for the two party system to break. I know one person who judges a president primarily by their foreign policy and if it's no good, then they're not a 'good' president. When I asked if there was a president with whom there was a foreign policy they did agree with, and they said "FDR, I guess? Clinton was the least bad but he still had a lot of issues." (for perspective, they "held their nose and voted for Harris anyway" but they didn't agree with Biden's stance on the conflict). I understand where they are coming from, it just..grates me.

I don’t think the political situation will be fixed until the left/democrats truly align themselves as a voting bloc, as a coalition, and out the Republicans in force in order to majorly reform our electoral system. In a different political climate where a two party system is not mandatory, the Democrats would have split into two or three parties by now. But that climate doesn’t exist, especially when splitting the party guarantees Republican supremacy for the rest of the next half century.

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

So if younger people aren't aware of all the hard work the generations before them put in, it may be because they literally were not taught about any of it. Can't let children learn about progressive ideals and mindsets and how to be an active participant in politics, after all, that might lead them to have the wacky idea that they too could change the world and push to make some of that stuff a reality! 

But hey, at least they'll get to be forced to read the Bible in school, so there's that. 

Bingo. Florida has already begun banning black history education in schools, some even changing the narrative on how slavery benefited black people. It's terrible. I also remember an article back in 2021 about Holocaust deniers and it was startling to me!

One in 10 young Americans believes that the Holocaust never happened, while 23% think it’s a myth or that the number of those killed has been exaggerated.

In a 50-state survey of Americans aged between 18 and 39, 12% said they had never heard, or thought they had never heard, the word “Holocaust” before. And almost half, 49%, couldn’t name a single one of the 40,000 concentration camps and ghettos in Europe during the Holocaust. 11% said they thought Jews, not the Nazis, were responsible for the Holocaust. That number goes up to 19% in New York state!

This tells me that the conspiracy theories and other distorted content circulating on social media had already begun to influence narratives, even prior to Trump's first presidency. The conservatives have definitely used it to their advantage and have been rolling with it since then (an uninformed populace is easier to control after all).

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yep. Way too many younger men nowadays are being exposed to guys like this or Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson and getting a lot of toxic anti-women attitudes from it. And then on top of that we have Trump out here spewing the most vile, misogynistic comments about women and minorities, and getting rewarded for it, and other politiicans who talk about how "men should be men" and "women should be women". 

It's just a really nasty atmosphere and it's causing a lot of young men to grow up with some very, very awful attitudes and beliefs as a result.

Unfortunately this trend is growing worldwide- among young people, women are growing more progressive while men are growing more conservative

After seeing how many Gen Z males gravitated to Trump, they have become the "Andrew Tate/Joe Rogan" generation to me. Podcast bros, toxic masculinity rhetoric, machismo bro culture, among other things and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because they're "lonely?" You don't get to shoot yourself in the foot and then demand I help you bandage the injury. Patch yourself up! 

When young white men are so fragile, even the mention of sexism or privilege makes them shut down? I don't understand what you expect anyone to do beyond self censor. But of course, let's listen to the genuine frustrations of a class of people who don't listen to the frustrations of others 😒

Edited November 23 by Eri

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

Unfortunately this trend is growing - among young people, women are growing more progressive while men are growing more conservative. After seeing how many Gen Z males gravitated to Trump, they have become the "Andrew Tate" generation to me. Podcast bros, toxic masculinity rhetoric, among other things and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because they're "lonely?" You don't get to shoot yourself in the foot and then demand I help you bandage the injury. Patch yourself up! 

This is sadly true.  As an Xennial it wasn't too surprising that Boomers and X went more Conservative but seeing the shift on Z was definitely heartbreaking and it's definitely due to this Masculine Podcast Culture.  I saw my Grandparents get brainwashed by Rush Limbaugh when they used to be taken Kennedy Democrats and it sucks seeing 18-26 year old men fall into the echo chambers of "manly men" and then turn around and say the Democrats are man-hating so of course they went for Trump.  NERD RAGE!

Again I don't like to perpetuate Generation Wars but lately I feel like I have to defend mine because I come from the generation that's gotten shit on from young and old for the last fifteen years.  We dare to question practices like not discussing pay, we ruin so-called trends, we're "entitled" for insisting we get paid what we're worth, we're "lazy" because we set boundaries on our availability, we can't buy houses so we're not contributing to the economy, oh wait now we buy houses "oh no Millennials are driving up housing prices, the fiends", our parenting is the "worst" because some of us actually think that our kids should be able to talk about their emotions, side parts and skinny jeans are no go even though all the stuff Gen Z considers in are all the stuff WE deemed cool in the 90s, we're the most selfish generation ever even though we had the highest turnout of Democrat voters. End rant.  Not really.

[Lantern7]

Something dawned on me . . . how will we celebrate the holiday season? It just feels hollow right now . . . also ironic, what with the idea of Jesus being absolutely horrified at the stuff being done in his name. Republicans don't deserve Christmas.

Is there any reason to hope that the nation isn't going to be a raging garbage fire after January 20? I need a reason, and I don't have a backup country to fall back on.

[Blergh]

20 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Something dawned on me . . . how will we celebrate the holiday season? It just feels hollow right now . . . also ironic, what with the idea of Jesus being absolutely horrified at the stuff being done in his name. Republicans don't deserve Christmas.

Is there any reason to hope that the nation isn't going to be a raging garbage fire after January 20? I need a reason, and I don't have a backup country to fall back on.

How we celebrate the holiday season you ask?

Speaking for myself, I intend to celebrate the season the same way Jesus likely celebrated Rosh Hoshannah and other Jewish high holy days despite the Jerusalem Temple being dominated by the Pharasees and His Nation occupied by the Romans who'd crucify Him- by NOT making it about hypocrites blaspheming the Scriptures and  blatantly twisting them for their purposes but making it about honoring the holidays' actual intent ( goodwill to others, helping those in need, bonding with one's loved ones,etc). 

I'm not going to pretend that we likely will have to endure a great deal of turmoil as a nation and as individual citizens in the times ahead. However, I think by drawing on the examples of others from all walks of life in all corners of the world in times past (and in the current day) who've had to endure oppressive folks in power  via bonding with one's loved ones, and doing all what each of us can as individuals to help one another AND educate the next generations about our true heritage and potential, those can be noble reasons to keep hope alive! 

I truly hope this helps! Take care!

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Dimity said:

Yep.  Sometimes you have to vote with some goddam common sense.  And anyone out there who voted for Trump or did a protest vote because they didn't like what they perceived to be Dems lack of support for, as you note for example the Palestinian people, well congratulations.  So did you get what you wanted?  Will your people or your cause be better off now?  NO.  But you sure told the Dems.  Good for you.

I guess that's the other thing, too - how long are poeple willing to just sit out and wait for thier perfect unicorn candidate to come along? People refused to vote for Hilary in 2016 because she wasn't their ideal candidate, so then came 2020, and then we had Biden and there were people who weren't enthused about him, either, and now people weren't enthused about Harris.

Like, what exactly will it take for those sorts of people to be satisfied enough to get off their asses and vote? And how the fuck is the opposiing candidate actively trying to overturn a democratic election NOT reason enough to do everything in your power to ensure he never gets back anywhere near the White House? 

At some point people need to grow the hell up and get over themselves and look at the bigger picture. 

3 hours ago, Eri said:

Well if Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones or Fox News tells me so, then it MUST be true right? Lol But on a serious note, no they don't care about specifics. If people were as interested in the specifics as us, Trump would've lost. Not that it will matter now, while Project 2025 becomes our new "Constitution" 😓

Which just further proves that all the media claims about how Harris just "wasn't specific enough" for voters is total bullshit. Again, people blaming her instead of putting the blame where it actually belongs, on voters being super confusing with what they claim to want in a candidate. 

 

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Yes, I see this a lot (in Independents especially) from the 18-34 yo adults who are paying attention to politics - they can disparage Republicans and Democrats all day long because they're waiting for the two party system to break.

And people like this make me roll my eyes. I know there are people whose politics tend to be a mix of both parties, but nowadays when I hear someone say, "Oh, I'm so independent, I don't have a party affiliation", more often than not what they really mean is they're too lazy/uninformed to botehr picking a side. Surely there is one issue they care about where one party is more in line with their ivews than the other, that can tip the scales for them. 

It just so often reads as them just being too "enlightened" and "above it all" to actually bother to care about pesky stuff like voting or getting politically involved in any significant way. And it's also usually people who aren't most direclty impacted by the policies in question who can afford to have this attitude. 

But yeah, I mean, would it be helpful to have more party options in this country? Sure. But that is not the world we live in, and anyone expecting that to change needs to realize that it's going to take a lot more than going in and slapping down a third party vote every four years or just abstaining from voting at all. It would need to involve a lot of changes to how our elections are done in general. Maybe if they got off their butts and actually bothered to get involved or vote for someone, they might actually find a candidate who could help get hte ball rolling on that. 

Until then, however, this is the setup we have. We have two parties. People may not like it, but those are the facts. So at some point people have to be realistic and work with what we do have instead of waiting for their fantasy world scenario to happen. 

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Bingo. Florida has already begun banning black history education in schools, some even changing the narrative on how slavery benefited black people. It's terrible. I also remember an article back in 2021 about Holocaust deniers and it was startling to me!

Those statistics you shared about the Holocaust are very disturbing, indeed. But yeah, look at how many schools want to scrub any mentions of people who aren't white who did heroic things, or who want to whitewash all the white historical figures who had not so great pasts. Look at the schools who want to ban certain books that don't align with a conservative worldview. And how many times have we heard conservatives bitch about critical race theory? I saw an ad in my area before this past election where the Republican candidate was claiming that the Democratic one was bad because he was teaching five year olds that "America is racist and so are they", and who was arguing for parental rights in schooling (read: parents having a say in what kids are allowed to learn in school). 

The less educated the populace, the easier they'll be to control. And the younger they are, the easier it'll be. 

4 hours ago, Makai said:

The architect of Project 2025 is Trump’s pick to head the Office of Management and Budget. 

But- but, I was told he had no interest in Project 2025! That's what all his supporters kept saying! /s

(Also just wanted to say excellent choice of gif. I love Isaac :D <3.)

[kittykat]

I'm definitely leaning into getting Thanksgiving prep done and thinking about gifts for family.  Mr. kat has been shopping online today because apparently Black Friday is now the whole week before Thanksgiving. Thank heavens for the Great British Bake Off and stress baking.

As far as what happens the next four years.  Best case scenario: no initiatives get through, the center rights grow a backbone and defy it all and Trump has a lame duck presidency.  Now I'll pinch myself back into reality.

But then there's all three branches of government that's all in the hands of MAGA.  Thomas and Alito are likely stepping down which means we'll have a Trumpist Supreme Court for at least 3 decades and we have Stephen fucking Miller pulling the strings. It's hard not to default to worst case scenario.  

[Palimelon]

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So if things in Gaza get worse if that is even possible once Trump takes office again I'm sure we will hear some people say it's Biden's fault.

Well, the US just vetoed another ceasefire resolution at the UN security council...

Edited November 23 by Palimelon

[Lisa418722]

I follow a Facebook page for my hometown and this week (1) someone asked for a dentist who refuses to use fluoride (2) a pediatrician who refuses to vaccinate children and (3) they want to force students to take a Bible/Christianaity course (but not any other religion or religious text).  

Then last Sunday at church (yes, I'm a liberal Christian who realizes there are other religions and religious texts out there), when we were taking communion the guy who was saying the prayer spoke for almost ten minutes about how "the blue hates the red" and then after a long pause he added, "and vice versa."  How does communion and Jesus relate in any way to the USA?   

Edited November 23 by Lisa418722

[PRgal]

@Eri I’m not surprised that the gap in South Korea is much wider than western countries.  Confucianism and its expectations remain and guys likely feel they need to respect it more and enforce it (such as carrying on the family name.  Korea, like China, has a history of keeping kinship books, detailing everyone in the male line) as society as a whole becomes more open.  I’d like to see stats from similar cultures like China, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong.  Taiwan seems more liberal (they have legal equal marriage).  
 

Edited because, well, they’re not carrying gin with the family name.  Okay, maybe some might have gin…

Edited November 23 by PRgal

[bluegirl147]

I think part of the problem is most of the time Democrats/Liberals/Progressives are playing defense.   Republicans/conservatives flood the zone with so much disinformation, misinformation and lies we have to whack a mole battling it all.  And so much of it is things we didn't see coming so it's not like we can plan for it.  Like removing fluoride from the water?  Sure there might have been rumblings from people about that but before RFK said he wanted to do it how many people were on local FB groups supporting it?

Republicans politicians follow the social media algorithm model.  They highlight the negativity and use fear to draw more people.   

[JustHereForFood]

18 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

"“Everyone says he is crazy – which maybe he is – but the scarier thing about him is that he is stupid. You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t.”

-Fran Lebowitz

[tearknee]

There was a big re-alignment in which party held which geographic areas in the Senate between Ike's second election and Trump's first

[PRgal]

I lived in Bermuda for a year back until the 90s where people’s plumbing system is connected from rain water collected on their house’s roof.  Every day after lunch, kids had to take a fluoride pill.  They were absolutely disgusting. 

[Browncoat]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

I lived in Bermuda for a year back until the 90s where people’s plumbing system is connected from rain water collected on their house’s roof.  Every day after lunch, kids had to take a fluoride pill.  They were absolutely disgusting. 

Our water didn't have fluoride where I grew up, but we didn't have to take pills.  I got a fluoride treatment at the dentist on a regular basis.  I don't remember now if it was every visit or every other visit, but I hated those days.  It took a while to administer, and then you couldn't eat or drink anything for what seemed like forever afterwards.  It was probably only something like an hour, but when you're a kid, an hour is a long time to go without food!

[JustHereForFood]

23 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Younger people take for granted the rights they (as of now) have.  They also tend to have that it won't happen to me attitude as most young people do. 

You  never hear a Republican say that.  

I know I am already falling into a "kids these days" attitude and I'm only a millenial, but yes, I have seen a lot of discussions online where it seems like people don't have enough appreciation for the previous generations who ensured all of the rights they now have. I have noticed this for example in talks about LGBTQ+ representation on TV - it has changed so much in the last few decades that many people now look at some shows from like 20 years ago and instead of being happy how much it has changed since then, they throw so much hate at the older shows for not being up to today's standards - even though it would not have been possible back then apart from some small-budget independent movies. Mainstream movies and shows like Philadelphia or Will & Grace were groundbreaking for their time, but they now get picked apart for picking their battles so that some actual progress could be made over the time.

 

[Palimelon]

Quote

I’m not surprised that the gap in South Korea is much wider than western countries.  Confucianism and its expectations remain and guys likely feel they need to respect it more and enforce it (such as carrying on the family name.  Korea, like China, has a history of keeping kinship books, detailing everyone in the male line) as society as a whole becomes more open.  I’d like to see stats from similar cultures like China, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong.  Taiwan seems more liberal (they have legal equal marriage).  

Not sure how much Confucianism affects South Korea. It might be ingrained in the culture, but so few Koreans practice it these days. And while SK can be a rigid and conservative society in many ways, it is interesting to note that from that group of countries, it has the highest proportion of Christians (a little over a quarter). Then again, both Taiwan and Japan have similar tiny Christian populations but Taiwan is seen as being as more progressive and liberal.

[Dimity]

[Is Everyone Gone]

A lot of people are talking about Gen Z men getting red-pilled because of podcasts and whatnot, but I also see it with women. Very young women (like 21, 22) already saying they have no intentions of being anything other than a SAHM, that a woman's place is the home, that both men and women need to save it till marriage, etc. 

[Dimity]

18 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

have noticed this for example in talks about LGBTQ+ representation on TV - it has changed so much in the last few decades that many people now look at some shows from like 20 years ago and instead of being happy how much it has changed since then, they throw so much hate at the older shows for not being up to today's standards

I see this with books as well.  If you don't want to read anything that doesn't completely and totally reflect your values and where you are today that's up to you but it's also totally unrealistic to expect 21st century values in books written 50, 100 or more years ago. 

[Dimity]

6 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Very young women (like 21, 22) already saying they have no intentions of being anything other than a SAHM, that a woman's place is the home, that both men and women need to save it till marriage, etc. 

Then they hit 30, have 3 kids and realize that they can't live like a '50s housewife because unless hubster is pulling in a big salary they are going to struggle just to get by let alone have any of the niceties of life.  And that's assuming hubster is a decent guy and hasn't dumped her for a more recent model.

[JustHereForFood]

I would also bet that people don't actually want to live like in the 50's beyond the aesthetics. No cell phones, no internet, more limited opportunities to socialize beyond your bubble, etc.