Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Palimelon]

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With respect, I disagree unless you mean doing it within our present system. Lobbying to restore abortion rights nationally is fine, but taking away the freedoms of people who don't agree with me on that to take away their right to shape the laws to fit their beliefs is not the way to do it if I am to be consistent with my beliefs about freedom. Freedom is not just for people that agree with me.

Taking away freedoms from people to verbally be assholes isn't taking away their freedom.

No, freedom isn't just for people to disagree with me, but that doesn't mean they have the freedom to impose their beliefs on me. Nobody is forcing people to have an abortion or gay marriage. But the intolerant ones want to force others not to be able to at all.

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I also don't think it is fair that the burden falls upon us to convince others to tolerate us.

Yes.  It took decades to legalize same sex marriage because some people didn't approve of it.  Same with interracial marriage.  Wasn't legal till 1967.  Why does society have to wait for the most intolerant people to become less intolerant before progress can be made?

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

People gave them that right by voting them in. They were stupid but what can you do?

And the people who didn't vote for them have to suffer? That is a pretty jaded and defeatist way of thinking.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I don't think it's fair some of us have to live in a place that tolerates us for our race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion. I also don't think it is fair that the burden falls upon us to convince others to tolerate us. Double whammy! Basically, we must persuade others we are worthy of humanity and allow us to have it? NO!

I agree with you but I don't think it's fair to call for taking away their rights to do what they're doing or that could be used against everyone unfairly. We unfortunately are stuck with finding constitutional ways of getting rid of them. Voting them out. They have used their own rights and power to compromise human rights as we see them to suit their own agenda. We know it's wrong in the long run but there is only so much we can do especially now that the Supreme Court is stacked in their favor. The majority of Americans don't want what they're doing either. I think they let them in because they were hoodwinked into thinking they were going to improve their wallets. But they were wrong to think that and short sighted to vote on that basis at the expense of human rights.

I personally think we need some big election reform in this country. The present way the electoral college is structured doesn't help. And then there's all the gerrymandering of districts. And the way Supreme Court justices are appointed. There is NO WAY a majority of Americans think abortion is OK but they shouldn't prevail. Something is seriously wrong here. It's tyranny of the minority in this country. That's what we should be talking about - ways to prevent this stuff legally and through the system, not by calling for intolerance of the intolerant. It has to be a realistic movement not just ideology. 

[Palimelon]

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I don't think it's fair to call for taking away their rights to do what they're doing

What rights exactly are being taken away?

[Yeah No]

9 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Taking away freedoms from people to verbally be assholes isn't taking away their freedom.

No, freedom isn't just for people to disagree with me, but that doesn't mean they have the freedom to impose their beliefs on me. Nobody is forcing people to have an abortion or gay marriage. But the intolerant ones want to force others not to be able to at all.

Yes but they see it exactly the same in reverse, that people like you and me have imposed our beliefs on THEM. They don't share our beliefs and the laws up until recently were based on our beliefs. So they see it as within their rights to turn it around. And it is within their rights. I don't like it either but rights are rights and they have to be given to all equally or we're not a Democracy anymore. We have to find other ways to get back to having the laws based on our beliefs. And I do think we're in the majority anyway so it would only be fair. They have leveraged their unbalanced power to take that away from the majority and that's what needs to be addressed.

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

What rights exactly are being taken away?

Their rights to take back control of setting what laws are in the constitution for example. Like repealing Roe. They have the same right to do that as we had to get it enacted in the first place. But it is not what the majority wants and I see that as a big problem and one that should be corrected by reforming all the things I wrote about in a post above and more to favor what the majority wants, not the minority.

[Palimelon]

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Yes but they see it exactly the same in reverse, that people like you and me have imposed our beliefs on THEM.

Except I am not imposing my beliefs on them, I am asking them to respect my choices. Again, forcing my beliefs on them means forcing them to have an abortion or queer marriage, which nobody is doing or asking for. Asking them to respect my beliefs that allow me and others to do either isn't imposing anything on them.

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I don't like it either but rights are rights and they have to be given to all equally or we're not a Democracy anymore.

Except what they are doing is TAKING away rights from other people. Not sure if that's what a democracy should be.

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And I do think we're in the majority anyway so it would only be fair.

Most national polls say that the majority of Americans are actually for abortion being legal and that queer people should be allowed to get married.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/08/20/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-dnc-gets-underway/

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

https://news.gallup.com/poll/646202/sex-relations-marriage-supported.aspx

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/11/us-public-support-lgbtq-protection-falls

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-legalization-of-same-sex-marriage-is-good-for-society/

So what we have is the minority wanting to dictate these 2 issues for the majority.

Edited November 19 by Palimelon

[Palimelon]

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Their rights to take back control of setting what laws are in the constitution for example.

That isn't what most of us on here are talking about when we say combating or fighting intolerance.

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Except I am not imposing my beliefs on them, I am asking them to respect my choices. Again, forcing my beliefs on them means forcing them to have an abortion or queer marriage, which nobody is doing or asking for. Asking them to respect my beliefs that allow me and others to do either isn't imposing anything on them.

Except what they are doing is TAKING away rights from other people. Not sure if that's what a democracy should be.

They don't see it that way. They think they have a right to disrespect your beliefs and tell you that your way of being is wrong so you shouldn't have any rights. They will never "live and let live".

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Most national polls say that the majority of Americans are actually for abortion being legal and that queer people should be allowed to get married.

Yes, like I was saying, the majority doesn't agree with them but we are unfortunately made to live with them being in control of everything. Which I think is wrong and THAT's what we should be fighting against. We got ourselves into this mess after the Civil War. I don't have time to go into it but concessions were made to the South after the wear that gave it more power than it should have. This is why it basically takes a landslide for any Democrat to be voted into the White House. It's not fair. And unfortunately the demographic distribution of Dems. and Republicans in this country only makes that problem even worse. States with few people have more of a say in the electoral college and they're usually primarily Republican. 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Except I am not imposing my beliefs on them, I am asking them to respect my choices. Again, forcing my beliefs on them means forcing them to have an abortion or queer marriage, which nobody is doing or asking for. Asking them to respect my beliefs that allow me and others to do either isn't imposing anything on them.

As I said in an earlier post we made progress by people fighting for people to have more rights.  As you said @Palimelon women want the choice to have an abortion if that is what is wanted or needed.  Making it legal did not force a woman to have an abortion.  Making same sex and interracial marriage legal didn't mean people were going to be forced to marry someone of the same sex or a different color.  But now we are regressing by having people file lawsuits and Congress and state legislatures passing laws that are taking people's rights away.    But I guess we are supposed to support their right to do that simply because they can.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

That isn't what most of us on here are talking about when we say combating or fighting intolerance.

No, but I think it should be. We have to talk about real ways to combat this stuff through reforming the system in legal ways.

[Palimelon]

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No, but I think it should be. We have to talk about real ways to combat this stuff through reforming the system in legal ways.

I'm sorry, that might be one way, but it should not be only way. If someone is an asshole they should still be called out for it.

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They don't see it that way. They think they have a right to disrespect your beliefs and tell you that your way of being is wrong so you shouldn't have any rights. They will never "live and let live".

And I will call them out for it, even if it offends them.

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But I guess we are supposed to support their right to do that simply because they can.

And of course my favorite counterargument of theirs: "I'm not racist*, but you're racist for pointing out how racist I am!"

*or whatever they are

[bluegirl147]

8 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

They don't see it that way. They think they have a right to disrespect your beliefs and tell you that your way of being is wrong so you shouldn't have any rights. They will never "live and let live".

But you want us to be "tolerant" of that attitude.  For too long we let them chip away at Roe and here we are.  And according to Justice Thomas he thinks it's time to revisit some other rulings and rip them apart too.

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And unfortunately the demographic distribution of Dems. and Republicans in this country only makes that problem even worse. States with few people have more of a say in the electoral college and they're usually primarily Republican.

It also doesn't help there is gerrymandering and voter suppression in a lot of these states. 

7 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

If someone is an asshole they should still be called out for it.

There are people no longer in my life because they were assholes about politics.  I am not someone who is going to go along to get along.

[Eri]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I don't like it either but rights are rights and they have to be given to all equally or we're not a Democracy anymore. We have to find other ways to get back to having the laws based on our beliefs. And I do think we're in the majority anyway so it would only be fair. They have leveraged their unbalanced power to take that away from the majority and that's what needs to be addressed.

I see what you are saying (truly), though I'd counter and ask how did their unbalanced power start to become the "majority rule?" You could argue this minority populace dismantled the checks and balances (via legislative and judiciary branches) of what a democracy *should* entail to do so in a legal, but very undemocratic fashion.

One possible solution to address this is to reintroduce civics courses back into our education system to prevent apathy and replenish civil engagement at the state and local levels so people understand how government works (or doesn't work) for them.

Given how there's already talks about dismantling the Department of Education, what then? There are many independent think tanks like the Heritage Foundation with the means and resources to influence and lobby their "rights" for them in ways that you or I ever could. 

Granted, the government doesn't have to listen to their suggestions but we're seeing checks and balances being eroded before our eyes. I agree that electoral reform does need to change, though look at the growing number of election deniers and conspiracy theorists now entering Congress. And once they dig their heels in, it's difficult to get them out because they prevent us from doing anything legally via voter restriction laws, gerrymandering districts, and other legal but unfair means.

The president now has absolute immunity from prosecution when carrying out "official acts." (since when did we need to give presidents authority like a king?) And as you mentioned, people willingly voted for someone whose campaign promises are based on doing very undemocratic things.

What else is there to conclude but that people are turning away from democracy in favor of something else (autocracy)?

Edited November 19 by Eri

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Eri said:

What else is there to conclude but that people are turning away from democracy in favor of something else (autocracy)?

They are falling for the lies.  They have been convinced giving more rights to people that some people think are undeserving takes away their rights. Not all people who voted for Trump and by extension Republicans in general but a hefty amount think he is going to right the ship. That all those "others" are going to be put in their place.  For too many people they don't care about democracy for all of us but just for them.  For all those people who cheered when SCOTUS ruled presidents have pretty much absolute immunity they would lose their minds if Biden took advantage of that on his way out the door.  And in all honesty if we  have a Democrat in the oval office again I would not be surprised in the least if that decision was revisited and the immunity taken away.

[tearknee]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

With respect, I disagree unless you mean doing it within our present system. Lobbying to restore abortion rights nationally is fine, but taking away the freedoms of people who don't agree with me on that to take away their right to shape the laws to fit their beliefs is not the way to do it if I am to be consistent with my beliefs about freedom. Freedom is not just for people that agree with me.

I agree that freedom "just as planned" sucks as much as it's opposite:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ResistanceAsPlanned

[Avaleigh]

6 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This is some insanity and I've never understood it either.  Look what happened last week when Michael Strahan stood respectfully during the anthem without putting his hand over his heart.  The reaction was insane.  I didn't even know covering your heart for the anthem was a thing.  Then he had to come up with a story about how he got distracted and forgot.  Who knows.  Clearly he was not protesting anything.

ETA: I think racism is involved. 

This reminds me of the way Gabby Douglas was treated in 2016. All of the gymnasts except her had their hand over their hearts during the national anthem after they won for the team event. She also seemed spiritually down during that Olympics for a variety of reasons. She seemed taken aback by people being upset with her and claimed that she always stood that way and didn't know it was a problem. People pointed out that she stood with her hand over her heart in 2012, so many people assumed that she was quietly protesting something but then she denied that it was politically motivated, so she ended up in this weird position where people from both sides were unfairly criticizing her simply because she chose to stand at attention.

I thought there was a lot of sexism at work here in addition to the usual racists who never miss an opportunity to chime in on this sort of topic. Gabby was criticized for not smiling enough, for not cheering on her teammates as loudly as others, for not having the bubbly energy of someone like Laurie Hernandez. I can't help but think that a man wouldn't have been criticized for stuff like that. Male athletes are commended for being strong and stoic and generally aren't criticized for not smiling if they don't feel like it. I feel like beauty pageant standards are applied to female athletes particularly for gymnastics and figure skating, and Gabby Douglas got caught in the crossfire of those unrealistic expectations. 

[JustHereForFood]

16 hours ago, Eri said:

Absolutely - I don't think even half the stuff people are exposing themselves to these days is actually "news." 

The problem is a lot of folks (across all age ranges but especially Gen Z) are gravitating to platforms outside the mainstream media that are unregulated and often go unchecked and unchallenged because tech bros won't enact policies to fact check and manage the discord. I've listened to a lot of analysis on how people voted since the election and a great majority of media influencers are men.

A lot of folks going to random places online for their "news" - when it could just be a YouTube channel of Tucker Carlson complaining about vaccines or Joe Rogan on a podcast demonizing women or immigrants. Anyone can go on the internet and start sharing information (opinions) that is usually unsubstantiated, not fact checked, etc. and these businesses don't care or have the financial incentives to change that. The restriction to "freedom of speech" argument is their common excuse, but look at how 2016 turned out (Russian bots, outside hackers, and now AI...) so it's definitely a factor.

Result: Facebook has become a cesspool for disinformation. Twitter has become a haven for hate speech. 4chan is full of white nationalists, just to name a few - it is getting out of control.

I think a lot of people DO want social media to be more regulated but unfortunately, until Congress passes some sort of legislation that will hold these tech executives accountable, it will continue. And since we have such a geriatric Congress who never grew up with the internet, it will take even longer (no offense intended to any older posters on here).

Case in point: How many times has Zuckerberg or some CIO from Silicon Valley been invited to the Congress floor to explain how their systems work? lol. The tech industry built the car and hold the keys at the same time - it's a dangerous position to be in when you only have the knowledge of what these tech execs are sharing to make decisions.

I think that a huge problem is that these platforms are for free*. People got used to practically everything being free on the internet and now when paper print went out of the way in favor of digital, many don't want to pay for it. But journalism is not free. People work to write those articles and fact-check them. People who would provide that for free are most likely paid by somebody with an agenda. That is how we end up with so much disinformation on social media, even when it eventually is pointed out to be a lie it has already done a lot of damage.

*yes, nothing is free, if it is, we are the most likely the product

[Suzn]

I've contributed nothing to this discussion, but I've read it all and appreciate it so much.  I'm wondering why there has not been a mention of mass deportations overseen by the military.

This gets scarier by the day.

[PRgal]

Just now, Suzn said:

I've contributed nothing to this discussion, but I've read it all and appreciate it so much.  I'm wondering why there has not been a mention of mass deportations overseen by the military.

This gets scarier by the day.

What's also scary is that many in the military are children of immigrants who may have relatives who still are.  And that could mean that they'll be ordered to deport their loved ones.

[Absolom]

Simply passing commentary.  I'm weeks behind on TV watching.  As I begin to catch up, I'm catching bits of political ads as I FF through commercials.  I see Trump saying I will fight for you!  I will not cut Medicare!   I see Kamala (who I supported) saying words, words, words not punchy sound bites.  I prefer the words as having some substance.  30 to 50 per cent of the country only hears and retains the sound bites.  That's my simple view on the TV ad portion of the campaign.  They also tended to pound home that Kamala increased medicare premiums.  That's something she couldn't have influenced even if she'd wanted to do so.  

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Absolom said:

They also tended to pound home that Kamala increased medicare premiums.  That's something she couldn't have influenced even if she'd wanted to do so.  

Of course they did that.  Sadly a lot of things Trump is promising to do he probably will be able to do but the big one he seems to have convinced too many on is that he has control of grocery prices.  He doesn't  Anymore than Kamala did over medicare premiums.  Trump and his cronies have convinced a lot of people that "the government" has a lot more control over things like this than they actually do.  These people are about to find out that the stuff Trump actually can control is going to affect them a lot more than the price of eggs.

[kittykat]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

personally think we need some big election reform in this country. The present way the electoral college is structured doesn't help. And then there's all the gerrymandering of districts. And the way Supreme Court justices are appointed. There is NO WAY a majority of Americans think abortion is OK but they shouldn't prevail. Something is seriously wrong here. It's tyranny of the minority in this country. That's what we should be talking about - ways to prevent this stuff legally and through the system, not by calling for intolerance of the intolerant. It has to be a realistic movement not just ideology. 

Oh man yes this needs to happen.  I just don't know how when the people it benefits the most are ones ruling the roost.  And our system was designed so that the minority would have a voice and not get shut down by majority rule but the pendulum has swung too far.

Banish the Electoral College, every state has equal representation through the Senate.  And honestly that is problematic too because the way the populace is allocated over half the senators are casting votes when they represent about 30% of the population.  Of course one just can't give extra votes to NY, CA or Texas.  But when the Senate is a huge roadblock to getting a law passed or a Court Justice confirmed it proves to be iffy on execution.

And yes it sucks that most of our elected officials, particularly Republican, seem to think shoving Abortion bans down our throat is the way. Pro Abortion Republicans could do the simple thing by helping to vote them out but most can't fathom marking down anyone just because there's a D next to their name so here we are. 

There are few exceptions: Kentucky is bright red but have a Democrat governor and both of Arizona's senators are Democrats too.  On the other side Virginia went blue and has a Republican governor.  I just wish there was more nuance in most of our voters instead of just down the party line voting.  

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Of course they did that.  Sadly a lot of things Trump is promising to do he probably will be able to do but the big one he seems to have convinced too many on is that he has control of grocery prices.  He doesn't  Anymore than Kamala did over medicare premiums.  Trump and his cronies have convinced a lot of people that "the government" has a lot more control over things like this than they actually do.  These people are about to find out that the stuff Trump actually can control is going to affect them a lot more than the price of eggs.

He does control prices in a way though. His tariffs are going to cause prices to skyrocket.

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

He does control prices in a way though. His tariffs are going to cause prices to skyrocket.

I just do not understand the mentality of the average person who hears him braying on and on about tariffs and thinks that prices are going to go back to 1998 levels and all will be right with their little world.

[Eri]

25 minutes ago, kittykat said:

And yes it sucks that most of our elected officials, particularly Republican, seem to think shoving Abortion bans down our throat is the way. Pro Abortion Republicans could do the simple thing by helping to vote them out but most can't fathom marking down anyone just because there's a D next to their name so here we are. 

I think that's just identity politics as was mentioned here in the discussion. People identify as Republicans so they vote for Republicans.

I read an article that was pretty good. In absence of civic life (rotary clubs, church clubs, bowling league, etc.) a lot of people don't have a "group" they belong to besides "Republican." So in order to avoid being an outsider, they vote for their local in-group -Republicans. Not all of them support fascists though, which is why we see all the infighting with these Cabinet nominees going on lol

I dunno, the argument is fundamentally consequentialist 🤔 If things end up with my friends and community being hate crimed and killed and I had the chance to stop that? I would.

[Eri]

9 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

People work to write those articles and fact-check them. People who would provide that for free are most likely paid by somebody with an agenda. That is how we end up with so much disinformation on social media, even when it eventually is pointed out to be a lie it has already done a lot of damage.

Indeed - because they're meeting people where they are, and we see how effective it is in swaying votes and perspectives. Peoples' entire perception of the world are being dictated by algorithms, and I truly think it has been a blight on society’s advancement and humanity’s potential.

 

Edit: Oops sorry for the double post - I can't seem to figure out how to merge my posts together.

Edited November 20 by Eri

[EtheltoTillie]

Dr. Oz for Medicare /Medicaid.  I definitely give up.

This affects my professional work directly. 

[peacheslatour]

Another TV host. I'm telling you, this is what comes of a country that's addicted to "reality" television. I guess he'll put Jeff Probst in at State.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Another TV host. I'm telling you, this is what comes of a country that's addicted to "reality" television. I guess he'll put Jeff Probst in at State.

He actually was at one time a respected doctor. 

[fairffaxx]

My dad's cardiologist went to med school with him, they were pals.  He doesn't have much to say about him now ....

[EtheltoTillie]

15 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

My dad's cardiologist went to med school with him, they were pals.  He doesn't have much to say about him now ....

My husband's colleague was also in that med school class.  Hated him even back then.  He was already a pompous ass.

Edited November 19 by EtheltoTillie

[chitowngirl]

This is the worst reality show casting ever…

[peacheslatour]

25 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

He actually was at one time a respected doctor. 

Maybe he got a brain worm from drinking all that vinegar.

[Lantern7]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Another TV host. I'm telling you, this is what comes of a country that's addicted to "reality" television. I guess he'll put Jeff Probst in at State.

Jeff Probst can be an obnoxious motherfucker. If you look in the episode threads for Survivor, you'll see that I have issues with him every week. But I don't think his is an obnoxiousness that could benefit those that are in power.

While I'm thinking of reality shows . . . is it bad for me to fear for Phil Keoghan? The guy hosts The Amazing Race, the series that won several Emmys for Best Competitive Reality Show, back when The Apprentice was nominated.

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Lantern7 said:

Jeff Probst can be an obnoxious motherfucker. If you look in the episode threads for Survivor, you'll see that I have issues with him every week. But I don't think his is an obnoxiousness that could benefit those that are in power.

While I'm thinking of reality shows . . . is it bad for me to fear for Phil Keoghan? The guy hosts The Amazing Race, the series that won several Emmys for Best Competitive Reality Show, back when The Apprentice was nominated.

How about Montel? Too black for the R's?

[EtheltoTillie]

Dr. Phil may be next.  Another Oprah fiasco.  He was on team Trump.

[peacheslatour]

CNN; Tuesday November 19.

Trump transition co-chair Linda McMahon is expected to be named as secretary of the Department of Education, four sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

The decision took shape after it became clear that McMahon would be passed over for Commerce secretary. President-elect Donald Trump named his other transition co-chair Howard Lutnick to lead the Commerce Department earlier Tuesday after the Cantor Fitzgerald CEO had thrown his name into the mix for Treasury secretary, sparking a battle with hedge fund manager Scott Bessent.

McMahon served as the administrator of the Small Business Administration during Trump’s first term. She was appointed in 2017 and resigned in 2019 to become the chair of America First Action, a pro-Trump super PAC.

You'd think with all the scandals the McMahons have been in recently, this wouldn't be a consideration.

But here we fucking are

Edited November 19 by peacheslatour

[Anela]

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, Dimity said:

I just do not understand the mentality of the average person who hears him braying on and on about tariffs and thinks that prices are going to go back to 1998 levels and all will be right with their little world.

Between the tariffs, women being made to care for more children than they can afford because of abortion bans, and a gutted healthcare system that will lead to insane medica debt for so many people, there's going to be a whoooooooooole lotta people who'll be longing for the days when their biggest concern was the price of eggs. 

And Trump supporters will sit here all confused about why things are still so expensive. Gee, I fucking wonder why...

It''ll be fascinating (and by "fascinating" I mean mind-boggling) to see how they'll spin these soon to be financial hardships into blame towards the Democrats, too, considering the GOP will be literally controlling all levels of our government. 

But this right here, along with all these batshit insane picks from Trump, is precisely why I am so beyond done trying to "understand" Trump supporters. We have had nine years of trying to "understand" them, and "reach out" to them. Their thought process ain't that deep. They're a bunch of stupid, short-sighted people who continue to vote against their best self-interests because they listen to a bunch of misinformation and fearmongering nonsense, and in the process not only do they screw themselves over, but they screw the rest of us over, too. This administration is going to leave so much damage for us to clean up when all is said and done, and in some ways, we may never fully recover from some of that damage. 

So fuck it. I'm done. I am well and truly out of patience and time to deal with them and their ignorance. They're the ones who need to grow the hell up and get with the program, not us. I'm sick and tired of people coddling them and placating them and not standnig up to them or pushing back on their bullshit. 

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'm sick and tired of people coddling them and placating them and not standnig up to them or pushing back on their bullshit. 

I have had it up to here as well with the focus on Kamala losing the election - the problem isn't that she lost, it's that HE won.  For gods sake, what is wrong with people that they voted for a man who decided he'd rather burn the house down than graciously concede that he lost the election in 2020? 

People act like someone else could have beaten him.  Yeah?  Who exactly? 

All the fence sitters who couldn't be arsed to vote are a big part of the problem but the biggest problem is that enough people want what that man is selling.  And that's just appalling.  

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I have had it up to here as well with the focus on Kamala losing the election - the problem isn't that she lost, it's that HE won.  For gods sake, what is wrong with people that they voted for a man who decided he'd rather burn the house down than graciously concede that he lost the election in 2020? 

People act like someone else could have beaten him.  Yeah?  Who exactly? 

All the fence sitters who couldn't be arsed to vote are a big part of the problem but the biggest problem is that enough people want what that man is selling.  And that's just appalling.  

THSI. She (and Hilary, back in 2016) had to jump through hoops to be just the "right" kind of candidate, she had to be likeable and couldn't go wrong with what she said about anything and got intense scrutiny over her policy plans and so on and so forth. 

Meanwhile, Trump could insult vast swaths of people and be as racist and sexist and xenophobic as possible, he could get support from freaking neo-Nazis and KKK members, and spout off about "concepts of a plan" when it came to discussing policy...

...and that's okay. That's just Trump. No need to hold his feet to the fire for anything. 

The double standards are just beyond infuriating and I'm sick and tired of people acting like if Kamala just did this or that differently then she would've won. God forbid anyone who sat out the election or voted for Trump and his vile behaivor, or the media who gave Trump a pass on WAY too much shit, ever have to look at their own role in leading us to where we are. 

[bluegirl147]

There is always a double standard.  I don't think Trump has nominated one qualified person and yet most if not all will be confirmed.  But anytime a Democratic president nominated someone there has to be a deep dive looking for something to use against them.  So far there is at least two men accused of sexual misconduct right?  I'm beginning to think to work for Trump it's a requirement.

[Lantern7]

I just wrote of one of my Senators addressing my concerns. Basically, I was all "FUCKING DO SOMETHING," only more polite. The hook was that I think we might have met back when I was in grade school and he was a local Congressman.

In my darker moments, I just want to shout how pissed I am. I'm a white guy, so the odds of a boot stepping on me are low, but they're not zero.

[partofme]

21 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

It''ll be fascinating (and by "fascinating" I mean mind-boggling) to see how they'll spin these soon to be financial hardships into blame towards the Democrats, too, considering the GOP will be literally controlling all levels of our government. 

The Republicans were already starting to do it with commercials during the campaign, they’re going to say oh we’re so sorry we have no choice but to cut Social Security/Medicare/ACA/etc, the Democrats bankrupted it by giving it all away to illegal aliens.   It will be lies, but the right wing media will repeat it constantly and the morons that vote Republican will believe it.  

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, partofme said:

The Republicans were already starting to do it with commercials during the campaign, they’re going to say oh we’re so sorry we have no choice but to cut Social Security/Medicare/ACA/etc, the Democrats bankrupted it by giving it all away to illegal aliens.   It will be lies, but the right wing media will repeat it constantly and the morons that vote Republican will believe it.  

The Republican party wouldn't continue to exist if their voters didn't  fall for their lies hook line and sinker. Democrats will have irrefutable evidence and Republican voters will say I'm going to believe this random guy I saw on Tik Tok.

[fastiller]

These cabinet announcements are making me feel like we well & truly are heading towards Idiocracy being more documentary than fiction. 

[Dimity]

14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

God forbid anyone who sat out the election or voted for Trump and his vile behaivor, or the media who gave Trump a pass on WAY too much shit, ever have to look at their own role in leading us to where we are. 

And talk about a double standard these are the same people now who are saying "we need to move on".  Yes?  And were they saying that 4 years ago when Trump spent almost two months denying he lost, harassing governors to overturn the votes in their states,   trying to con the electoral college votes, and finally trying to stage a damn insurrection?  No.  Trump was allowed to act like a petulant toddler while the Dems always have to be the adults in the room. 

[Spartan Girl]

35 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

So fuck it. I'm done. I am well and truly out of patience and time to deal with them and their ignorance. They're the ones who need to grow the hell up and get with the program, not us. I'm sick and tired of people coddling them and placating them and not standnig up to them or pushing back on their bullshit. 

PREACH IT. And add all the idiots that voted third party or stayed home too. I don’t care about their “reasons”. At this point, they’re just as bad as the Trump supporters.

[bluegirl147]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

PREACH IT. And add all the idiots that voted third party or stayed home too. I don’t care about their “reasons”. At this point, they’re just as bad as the Trump supporters.

Seriously.  Who is voting for Jill Stein?  This election was always going to be close so if someone wasn't voting for Harris they had to know it was going to help Trump.

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

fuck it. I'm done. I am well and truly out of patience and time to deal with them and their ignorance. They're the ones who need to grow the hell up and get with the program, not us. I'm sick and tired of people coddling them and placating them and not standnig up to them or pushing back on their bullshit. 

Yuuuuup!  I tried, I really tried these last two weeks to understand and get the Why from the other side.  I wanted to see if I was missing something but no.  Most of these people are so firmly entrenched in their Trump Train and demonizing our side by accusing us of not listening or not caring.  BULLSHIT! 

I'm tired of hearing "Democrats suck!  They didn't suck up to me enough!" I know our side could have done some things better but how do you run a well-qualified, articulate woman who is the vice-president with laid out policy and then say she's not qualified or clear enough about her platform?  No let's go with the narcissistic, lie spewing, business -failing bloviator because he makes them feel good about their prejudices.

And Kamala Harris is down less than 2.5M votes on the popular vote and 7M less than what Biden got.  But nooooooo stay home and protest because you're all still butthurt about Bernie Sanders not getting the nom eight years ago even though Hillary Clinton kept beating him soundly in the primaries and was less popular with black and women voters than either Clinton or Harris.  Trust me this is another argument that's been reignited on the interwebs and I am not here for it.