Chit-Chat: The Feels

[CheshireCat]

On 1/24/2025 at 7:42 PM, chitowngirl said:

In the matter of Elon vs Trump-who will turn on whom? And why?

I think Elon wants Tik Tok and them will dump Trump…

Considering how he's inserting himself into the German election now, I have my doubts. I believe that Musk likes power and part of me also wonders if he might be bored. 
People with high potential (and I believe Musk's might be very high) need challenges. So, it's possible, he's now looking for the next challenge and that's why he's set his sights on Germany. 

I think he enjoys the power and the feeling of being able to outsmart everyone. The problem that I see is that it's dangerous to believe you're the smartest person in the room and act like it, too. 

 

On 1/25/2025 at 5:09 PM, MostlyContent said:

I don't believe that Democrats can simply 'get rid of' the Electoral College.  We are a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. 

I hope I don't come across as if I'm schooling because that's not what I want but what makes the US a republic isn't the EC but that they're a representative form of government. In the US, people vote for politicians who are supposed to represent them and their interests. It's the representatives who vote for and make laws and policies.

In a democracy, it's the people who do that. In other words, the minority doesn't have any representation in a democracy. 

In a republic, a head of state can be elected directly or indirectly. (In Austria and France the president is elected directly by the people and much like in the US, the president of France isn't just a figurehead or ceremonial but holds actual power. In Germany, the president is elected by parliament, so indirectly). 

In German, republic and democracy are defined as "Staatsform" and "Regierungsform" but they're translated as the same word. "Staatsform" means how the government of the country is organized as, so, as a republic. But said republic is governed by the rules of democracy, so according to a majority vote. 

[bluegirl147]

18 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Since these countries don't want the "deportees" back on military flights, where on EARTH are these people going to go?  

Deportation Centers slave labor camps. And I'm not exaggerating.  The guy Trump put in charge of the border said "deportation centers" would have to be built and it wouldn't matter how much it would cost.  Do we really think they won't have detainees work?

[ProudMary]

The people who were flown to Brazil were accepted by that country. It is true that we don’t know why they chose to leave and come to the US. We don't know if they are asylum seekers who were in danger in their country. It's possible we will never know. 😔

I'm also concened about the Colombians who were not accepted. Where are they being held and under what conditions?

[ProudMary]

A piece of good news, via Reuters:

US Air Force resumes teaching video on first Black pilots after DEI review

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-air-force-says-it-will-teach-video-first-black-pilots-after-dei-review-2025-01-26/

[DrSpaceman73]

Well already a trade war with colombia. That took less than a week

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/26/trump-threatens-sanctions-as-colombias-petro-blocks-us-deportation-flights

I know the link is al Jazeera but it's widely reported many sources

Also the number one import from colombia is oil

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

I always said that no good would come from glorifying, and lionizing the Palpatine and the Dark Side with cruelty, depravity and deception  celebrated while all the Jedi and all the heroes along with the concepts of  kindness, compassion, mercy and empathy got belittled, demeaned and reduced to punching bags by virtually every production, publication,etc. after Return of the Jedi. 

Add this to so many other entertainment productions that have celebrated  evil  (with zero comeuppances or triumphs by good) in the last few decades and then  why should we should be surprised that so many have sided with it  re their own lives.

Americans love the triumph of the "little guy" over the big bad entity. The rogue cop that goes outside the law to prevail and solve problems where others fail following "the rules". The rough cut straight talking guy that can outsmart the effete establishment and beat them at their own game. Trump is every action movie and TV trope in one person. And that's why his base loves him. It's all a big show with him. All smoke and mirrors. And all to get the adoration of his base.

5 hours ago, anony.miss said:

Perhaps what you label as "fear mongering" is just people using a different threat assessment for Trump. As a Republican, your party ran a convicted felon who was also found criminally liable for sexual assault. To millions of Independent and Democratic voters, Trump's criminal history alone was a three alarm fire; not fear mongering, but disgust at his lack of humanity, morality and trustworthiness. Unfit to serve anything but a jail sentence.

And after this last week in office - milking fools for meme coin millions,  pardoning violent January sixers bent on revenge,  attacking a Bishop for speaking of Christian values, pushing through an admitted chronic drunk as head of the military, announcing he wants to clear Gaza like a lawn of grass cuttings, etc, etc  - there's no need for many of us familiar with this horrible human being to "wait a while". Given the repugnant things Trump did in the past, the rapid escalation of degradation this time around,  he's made it clear what his agenda is. Chaos. Revenge.  Expanding American territory by hook or crook. And fuck the price of eggs.  What you call "fear mongering" is just many of us calmly assessing the evidence in front of us.

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."  Donald Trump, 2016.

Trump supporters seem to think we don't get where Trump is coming from. The problem is WE DO and THEY DON'T. They think we're exaggerating or taking what he says in the wrong light. They think we're calling him unfair things and are afraid of him because we've been "brainwashed" by the "liberal media" or whatever they think. But I would seriously like to call their attention to the fact that people feeling the way we do about Trump is nothing new and started way before he ever entered politics.

As a New Yorker I "remember him when" as they say. He was always a sleazebag. He wasn't rejected by NYC society because they were prejudiced against his rough cut, plain talking ways. Lord knows there are many such people in NYC. No, he was rejected because he and his father were widely known as dishonest and unethical. He made deals that screwed people over. No conscience, no class. And then he was pissed off when "high class society" (which in NYC is largely rich and Democratic) rejected him. Incidentally, that's his motivation now - to get back the people that rejected him from the society he so badly wanted to be a part of. If he had been accepted by them I could guarantee every Trump supporter right now that he would likely be a Democrat (like he once was briefly) and never would have entered politics because he didn't have a grudge to work off.

The only reason Trump is ingratiating himself to the blue collar racists is to use them to get back at what he sees as the "rich liberal Democrats" that rejected him. It's all about Trump and his grudge, it's not about helping the American people, even "his people". He doesn't give one crap about them. I am sure he thinks of all of them as "suckers". And if anyone thinks that hitching themselves to that train is going to get them where they want to go, I have news for them - they are sadly mistaken because as soon as things change and/or he is not in a position to wield power over anyone, they are the FIRST people he's going to leave in the dust. His "loyalty" to them is only as far as they are useful to him.

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

He is going to end up pissing off every other country in the world.  And what is he going to have to show for it? MAGA's adoration?  His appeal doesn't go far beyond red state America.

Yes, and it is not "fear mongering" if he pisses off the wrong people and all of us have to pay for it in spades. This is dangerous stuff he is playing with here all in the service of his overblown and immature ego. There is no wisdom in anything he's doing. His strategy is crude and gangster-ish, but he isn't even doing it for it to work. It's all for show so his people think he's a big badass that "don't take no shit". Even if he intended it to work it wouldn't work, contrary to what the movie tropes have conditioned people to believe. Meanwhile he's like a kid with a box of matches. I can't get over the many otherwise rational people that can't see this about him. I can't imagine the mental gymnastics they would have to go through to justify even what we've seen in the past WEEK let alone any time before that!

[tearknee]

It wasn't "MAGA" that caused Brexit or caused two Trump wins (or the loss of the 2023 referendum in Australia).

People despise what can be short-handed as "academics, Guardian columnists and celebrities' calling them "white trash", "chavs" or "bogans".

Saying "our rights should not be up for a public vote" also tends to be remembered by the public when it turns out that you actually need votes in something that is required to be voted on.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, tearknee said:

It wasn't "MAGA" that caused Brexit or caused two Trump wins (or the loss of the 2023 referendum in Australia).

People despise what can be short-handed as "academics, Guardian columnists and celebrities' calling them "white trash", "chavs" or "bogans".

Saying "our rights should not be up for a public vote" also tends to be remembered by the public when it turns out that you actually need votes in something that is required to be voted on.

I was bullied as a kid but as far as I know I didn't turn into one. I stand for principles, not react to get back at those that did wrong to me and in the process screw the principles. And an awful lot of people are being lumped together that never called people those names. I understand the feelings but don't condone the behavior. And if they don't like it that I would say that, too bad.

[Annber03]

Yeah, I grew up in a traier park and had to deal with being lumped into the "white trash" description because of htat. 

Still not a Trump supporter. People who voted for the kinds of policies Trump supports were going to do that no matter what the "academic elite" called them.

Also, this claim continues to ignore the role that social media and right-wing outlets have played in brainwashing and manipulating people into believing lies and falsehoods. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Also, this claim continues to ignore the role that social media and right-wing outlets have played in brainwashing and manipulating people into believing lies and falsehoods. 

Emphasis mine, because, yeah, as I said last time (and, yes, I get it that now I'm repeating myself), repeating it won't make it true.  Saying MAGA didn't cause Trump's wins is like standing in a downpour and saying water isn't what caused me to get wet.

Edited 11 hours ago by Bastet

[Annber03]

I'm just tired of people finding reasons to let Trump voters off the hook for their role in creating the shitstorm we're in. Even back when he was running in 2016, we knew Trump had spent the entirety of Obama's time in office spreading racist birther conspiracy bullshit about him. We also heard all the vile things he kept saying about women, both on those "Access Hollywood" tapes and in general. 

And people listened to that and still decided to vote for him anyway. 

So no, I'm not going to give them and their support of racsit and misogynistic behavior and attitudes a pass because some academic elites might've been snooty towards them. They clearly have no problem with supporting someone who insults and demeans vast swaths of the population on a daily basis, so you'll pardon me if I can't really be sympathetic to someone calling them "white trash". 

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, tearknee said:

A detective from a film noir? ;)

Mob boss.

[Lantern7]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Trump just posted this about slapping Columbia with tariffs.

Uh huh. I think we need to remember that artificial intelligence can perform miracles in our day-to-day lives, but only if it is utilized properly. This is not how it should be used.

I also feel that we need to let the world know that when our nation succeeds in anything, it will be in spite of Donald Trump, not because of him.

[Anela]

6 hours ago, ProudMary said:

The people who were flown to Brazil were accepted by that country. It is true that we don’t know why they chose to leave and come to the US. We don't know if they are asylum seekers who were in danger in their country. It's possible we will never know. 😔

I'm also concened about the Colombians who were not accepted. Where are they being held and under what conditions?

I’ve just read that Colombia will accept them back, and send their own transportation, as long as those detained are treated well.  

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Mob boss.

I was confused, too. Mob boss makes more sense.  

[tearknee]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I was bullied as a kid but as far as I know I didn't turn into one. I stand for principles, not react to get back at those that did wrong to me and in the process screw the principles. And an awful lot of people are being lumped together that never called people those names. I understand the feelings but don't condone the behavior. And if they don't like it that I would say that, too bad.

To borrow a quote from Dr. Who, some become monsters (Jozsef Barsi), some go mad and some run away (Michael Landon).

I meant no harm by what I said, I'm just a hard boiled pragmatist due to what i have been through. And my Acquired Brain Injury on top of the autism means that i do not see the psychological masks that everyone uses. The mask of sanity is the most well-known but there are others.

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, I grew up in a traier park and had to deal with being lumped into the "white trash" description because of htat. 

Still not a Trump supporter. People who voted for the kinds of policies Trump supports were going to do that no matter what the "academic elite" called them.

Also, this claim continues to ignore the role that social media and right-wing outlets have played in brainwashing and manipulating people into believing lies and falsehoods. 

Calling people brainwashed and manipulated isn't really helpful when you want to convince them to crawl out of the abyss that they have fallen into.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, tearknee said:

Calling people brainwashed and manipulated isn't really helpful when you want to convince them to crawl out of the abyss that they have fallen into.

The irony of being told that when they call us the same things is not lost on me. Also my goal here is not to convince anyone to see things my way but to share how I feel with others that may feel the same way. And many of them here do. And it's been therapeutic for many of us, and something we've needed.

[Dimity]

33 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

The irony of being told that when they call us the same things is not lost on me. Also my goal here is not to convince anyone to see things my way but to share how I feel with others that may feel the same way. And many of them here do. And it's been therapeutic for many of us, and something we've needed.

Absolutely. I have been so grateful for this thread. Aside from all else it has reminded me that there are still many good and caring people in this world. I needed to be reminded of that this month.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

5 hours ago, tearknee said:

Calling people brainwashed and manipulated isn't really helpful when you want to convince them to crawl out of the abyss that they have fallen into.

Wait, what? They didn't helplessly fall into the abyss. They jumped. Willingly. Joyfully.  And just before they jumped, they grabbed onto the ankles of the  millions warning them to go that way, not this way, and dragged the rest of us into the abyss with them. 

They fucked around and now we all get to find out.

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, I grew up in a traier park and had to deal with being lumped into the "white trash" description because of htat. 

Still not a Trump supporter. People who voted for the kinds of policies Trump supports were going to do that no matter what the "academic elite" called them.

Also, this claim continues to ignore the role that social media and right-wing outlets have played in brainwashing and manipulating people into believing lies and falsehoods. 

The role of right wing mouthpieces online and on TV is a big deal because they definitely have incited more hate and division between Republicans and Democrats, especially since Trump. Before Trump we had a lot of griping from the right depending on who they were tuning into, but not a full blown movement like Trump has created. While it's true that many of his supporters were already believing lies and falsehoods and holding racist/misogynist viewpoints, he spread it even further, legitimized it and gave it a name and a shape. He passed along his grievance mentality to them and empowered them to feel important and see "the other side" as actively trying to oppress them.

Meanwhile, there was no such opposing movement on the Democratic side. The worst you can say about the Democrats is that maybe they didn't even see this audience mush less know how to appeal to it, but most of them were in no way organized to oppress them nor were they spewing hatred of them on any grand scale, except maybe the most extreme and visible offenders like the neo-Nazis and known sexual predators and such. And if Liberals and Democrats were speaking out against racism and misogyny, it was in general and not directed at this particular group in any particular way. If they took it personally maybe they were racist and misogynist, in which case I would say, "too bad" and "if the shoe fits, wear it". Unfortunately with their grievance mentality they feel justified in their racism. Sad but that's what I see.

I was decidedly apolitical for a very long time and while waking out of that slumber thanks to Trump I noticed how gob smacked the Democrats and even many of the Democratic leaning TV hosts were to find out how much hatred was being directed at them by the poor whites in the South. I got that because I too was gob smacked by it. I was obviously living in some kind of bubble here in the mostly urban and suburban Northeast. I haven't been to the South much in decades. I thought most people everywhere were above certain beliefs and opinions by this time or that if people with them still existed they were in a small and much less radicalized minority by now.

Obviously many of us were wrong about that. Resentments were ripe for being encouraged to grow and capitalized upon for political gain. We didn't even know how many of them existed or how unhappy they were about not being catered to or given a voice by politicians and government. Trump knew that they were ripe for turning into an organized force he could use as a weapon against the Democrats. He knew it wouldn't be hard to convince them that Democrats didn't care about them and hated them, and that the only people Democrats cared about were liberal women and minorities. They were already feeling forgotten. I really don't think Democrats meant to forget them. They, like me didn't even know they existed or that they felt that way. Well, we know now, except maybe it's too late or otherwise impossible to change it. I hope not, but it doesn't look promising.

[bluegirl147]

47 minutes ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

Wait, what? They didn't helplessly fall into the abyss. They jumped. Willingly. Joyfully.  And just before they jumped, they grabbed onto the ankles of the  millions warning them to go that way, not this way, and dragged the rest of us into the abyss with them. 

They fucked around and now we all get to find out.

When all is said and done and Trump and the Republicans have made things worse, as they always do, their base will still blame Democrats.  And when Dems come in clean up the mess, as they always do, Republicans will take credit for it, as they always do. 

6 hours ago, tearknee said:

Calling people brainwashed and manipulated isn't really helpful when you want to convince them to crawl out of the abyss that they have fallen into.

Sometimes the truth hurts.  They are in a cult.  A lot of them have been brainwashed and manipulated not just by Trump but by the right wing media apparatus that has slithered it's way into the mainstream.

Edited 1 hour ago by bluegirl147

[Dimity]

27 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

They were already feeling forgotten. I really don't think Democrats meant to forget them. They, like me didn't even know they existed or that they felt that way. Well, we know now, except maybe it's too late or otherwise impossible to change it. I hope not, but it doesn't look promising.

We have the same thing going on in Canada.  It's easy to think it's because the Liberals, or in your case, the Democrats, dropped the ball but I really don't think it's that simple.  

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

Sometimes the truth hurts.  They are in a cult.  A lot of them have been brainwashed and manipulated not just by Trump but by the right wing media apparatus that has slithered it's way into the mainstream.

and this is the biggest problem.  This is a world wide issue.  Made worse in the US thanks to Trump of course.  But the right wing media have lied and manipulated here in Canada for years and it's starting to bear fruit.  Extremists are easy to dismiss it's the 'regular' folk who've swallowed their propaganda whole who are the real problem.

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

We have the same thing going on in Canada.  It's easy to think it's because the Liberals, or in your case, the Democrats, dropped the ball but I really don't think it's that simple.  

I think Democratic politicians played to their strengths and their supporters and didn't spend enough time appealing to those that they knew weren't their base. But to get those people organized to hate and see Democrats as against them is really not on Democrats but on Republicans and of course Trump.

[Dimity]

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Extremists are easy to dismiss it's the 'regular' folk who've swallowed their propaganda whole who are the real problem.

I've been saying this for years.  Yes the Republican politicians are a problem but it's the voters that keep voting for them. They are the reason MTG and Boebert and Cruz and McConnell keep getting elected. They would rather believe the lies they are told than the truth that could actually help them. 

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I think Democratic politicians played to their strengths and their supporters and didn't spend enough time appealing to those that they knew weren't their base.

Not necessarily.  Democrats especially those running in swing state/districts try to appeal to Republican voters in hopes of winning.  But doing so can and does alienate Democrats.  I remember back in 2009 when the ACA was coming together Democratic House members were reluctant to go home and do town halls about it because the Tea Party was protesting it. Of course now it's popular but if Dems had embraced back then people would have been more receptive to it. 

[PRgal]

I think it's time to admit that EVERYONE is a victim of SOMETHING, regardless of ethnic heritage, gender, religion or socio-economic background.  Or whatever else I'm missing.  No one is completely NOT a target.  I'm seeing that with the narrow view of masculinity compared to femininity, for example.  And yes, even middle class/wealthy Anglo-Protestant, hetero cisgender males can be targets (see narrow definition).  

That said, I'm worried for some of my family members in Hong Kong.  It's not a great place to be right now, I don't think.  Mainland culture is infiltrating quicker than it should be (Hong Kong is supposed to retain its culture and special administrative status/self rule until 2047).  If you're Canadian, you can sort of use Quebec as an analogy.  Own language, own legal system, yada, yada.  Except HK takes it a step further and has its own currency.  They even drive on the left like the British while mainland drives on the right.  That's why the current concentration on deportation and tariffs to us and Mexico is crazy when they REALLY should be concentrating on what China might be doing to the world.  Just this morning, tech/AI stocks TANKED thanks to the news that a mainland AI company is able to be just as advanced as companies like Nvidia for a much lower cost.  Since those of us here are worried that these AI companies could come with other issues (think why they want to ban TikTok) THIS should be the primary focus.  

[heatherchandler]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:20 AM, Yeah No said:

I notice it's crickets from a lot of people that voted for Trump for whatever one pet issue they thought he could magically resolve in one day or week, like egg prices or the Middle East. Those one issue voters were so fixated on that one thing that they were sucked in by the BS that "Trump will fix it" and lost sight of everything else. And now he's not even going to fix what they thought he was going to fix but just make it worse. So they've been "vewy, vewy qwiet", to quote Elmer Fudd. And they include those that dismissed some of the extreme stuff he said he was going to do as just more of his "bluster". Meanwhile in the first week alone he's pursued at least 5 things that appear in project 2025, which he attempted to distance himself from during his campaign. I'd like to see any of those very quiet people defend that right now but I doubt it's going to happen. Instead I expect more crickets from them.

I’ve heard a lot and it’s very positive.  Are you talking about people you know or the news?  The right is celebrating.  I don’t talk politics with friends but all the Trump voters I know who post of FB, etc are expressing joy.  They are saying that he’s “getting things done.”  I am not a Trump supporter but I watch right and left news and am friends with right and left-leaning people.  

 

18 hours ago, Dimity said:

 

Handcuffed AND bound?  So, America, feeling great again now?  Shameful.  Absolutely shameful.

I am guessing you’ve never seen footage or heard about the US prison system.  That’s how prisoners are treated here.  And it’s not political.  It’s barbaric and no one says a thing. No one expresses outrage that prisoners are freezing in the winter and burning up in the summer in prisons here.  
 

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

 

Meanwhile, there was no such opposing movement on the Democratic side.

I was decidedly apolitical for a very long time and while waking out of that slumber thanks to Trump I noticed how gob smacked the Democrats and even many of the Democratic leaning TV hosts were to find out how much hatred was being directed at them by the poor whites in the South. I got that because I too was gob smacked by it. I was obviously living in some kind of bubble here in the mostly urban and suburban Northeast. I haven't been to the South much in decades. I thought most people everywhere were above certain beliefs and opinions by this time or that if people with them still existed they were in a small and much less radicalized minority by now.

 

No, on this very board there is a very clear expression of hate for Republicans.  Or, anyone who voted for Trump.  I truly haven’t seen anything even close coming from the right.  Not here or anywhere.  Where do you see this?  Why do you think the south hates democrats?  
 

 

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

Hahaha! Eric the Unloved cosplaying  as a Big Bad Wolf....

Edited 12 minutes ago by Milk-Eyed Mender
Poor wording

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

Hahaha! Eric the Unloved cosplaying  as a Big Bad Wolf....

I thought they wanted to bring everyone together?  And weren't we told it was Democrats who were being divisive.