Chit-Chat: The Feels

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Makai said:

 

And the crazy thing is that I could go on. And Trump does not care. He is a president that doesn’t care is a large chunk of his constituents. 

He is a president who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He would and will sell out this country and the people in it.  Having Elon Musk around is not going to be a good thing.  

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Enigma X said:

People can analyze this to death if they must. I am going to stick with most of his voters simply weren't going to vote for a half Black/half Southeast Asian woman. 

This.  And that Trump benefited from grocery prices and housing prices being so high.  Voters disregarded that this is a worldwide phenomenon because they want to believe there's an easy fix that the current govt somehow missed.

[PRgal]

3 minutes ago, Dimity said:

This.  And that Trump benefited from grocery prices and housing prices being so high.  Voters disregarded that this is a worldwide phenomenon because they want to believe there's an easy fix that the current govt somehow missed.

Some guy from Harvard Business School was on CNN (or maybe it was CNBC) talking about how grocery prices wouldn't be going down if 45/47 gets his way with tariffs.  Can't grow everything domestically, some things will need to be imported.  This will also impact global economy, so we're just all going to be screwed.  

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

This.  And that Trump benefited from grocery prices and housing prices being so high.  Voters disregarded that this is a worldwide phenomenon because they want to believe there's an easy fix that the current govt somehow missed.

Yep.  They want to believe Biden is just old and feeble and he didn't know how to kick inflation's ass. But sure Trump is going to ride to the rescue.  This is not a movie.  This is real life.  

[Makai]

5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Some guy from Harvard Business School was on CNN (or maybe it was CNBC) talking about how grocery prices wouldn't be going down if 45/47 gets his way with tariffs.  Can't grow everything domestically, some things will need to be imported.  This will also impact global economy, so we're just all going to be screwed.  

Yep. Economists were giving that warning before the election. Companies have already come out and said they are going to have raise prices to compensate. The estimate I saw was that it will cost the average household $1,700 to nearly $4,000 annually. 

[Anela]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I found it easily. That's odd, I wonder why you're having trouble?

I meant that it looked like they'd taken it offline, at the official site. I saw a lot of things listed, with their denying what was being said about it.

7 hours ago, kittykat said:

I know.  I feel this too.  I can be mad at the Trump voters but in the end, they voted per their rights.  The non voters to me that's just simply inexcusable.

Pretty much had to nope out of reddit since a lot of subs I follow are being bombarded by white male Gen Z voters who just HAD TO vote for Trump because they're tired of being demonized by the left.  Did I miss where we were demonizing all men?  Last I checked women and minorities only wanted an equal chance to have a seat at the table, not overthrow men.  Their takes reek of "you made me do it." I have a headache.

Right. Way to show that you aren't a problem for women.

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

Birthright citizenship isn't a thing in most parts of the world.  I think Canada is the only other country that has it.  In Britain, for example, you're what your parents are.  I remember taking a semester abroad (sorta) at my university's UK campus.  One of the profs was Canadian but had lived in the UK for years.  Her kids were born there, but her kids aren't British.  They're Canadian.  Because she's not British.

But that doesn't mean that we should get rid of it here.

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I managed to get through most of today until I saw Walz’s speech. Then I started tearing up again.

People are ripping Biden, Harris, Obama for trying to comfort people that we’ll be okay. I get the anger and fear, but what are they supposed to say? “You’re all screwed, goodbye?” They’re better than that. These are the people still fighting for us, or at least trying to. And again, the people that sat out the election do not get to bitch at them when they didn’t do their part.

I’m all for grieving, but we can’t give up. We are just going to have to work harder, like Walz said. It’s not what we wanted, but that’s where we are.

When I said something like that, I didn't expect a lot of anger, but I did want to hear that Biden would be doing whatever he could, the way some of the Governors of blue states are doing, in an effort to oppose whatever trump's bringing to us all. He has come out swinging before, so I'm hoping that he will.

Edited Saturday at 02:08 AM by Anela

[Soapy Goddess]

10 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I'm pretty sure that I did understand, but perhaps you could explain it again. 

Ok, I'll try something different. DISCLAIMER: I did NOT compose this list. It's making the rounds on FB...and does not necessarily reflect my views. 

Although I didn't vote for Obama, I only hoped the best for him. I never said "he’s not my President" because he certainly was the President of the United States.

Here is my issue with the whole non-acceptance of 47:

For the last 4+ years, Dems have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops. But 72+ million Americans have memories longer than a boll weevil.

We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments.

We remember the constant “he's not our president” and the “Resistance…”

We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.

We remember Trump supporters getting doxed, and fired from jobs.

We remember riots and looting.

We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head.

We remember a play in Central Park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump.

We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony awards and getting a standing ovation.

We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.

We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.

We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.

We remember the President and his staff being spied on.

We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield.

We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but a Trump hate fest.

We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.

We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.

We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.

We remember that supporters were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.

We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.

This list is endless, but you get the idea.

Edited Saturday at 08:19 AM by Soapy Goddess
Added disclaimer

[FilmTVGeek80]

20 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Ok, I'll try something different.

I tolerated Obama for 8 years and although I didn't vote for him, I only hoped the best for him. I never said "he’s not my President" because he certainly was the President of the United States.

Here is my issue with the whole non-acceptance of 47:

For the last 4+ years, Dems have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops. But 72+ million Americans have memories longer than a boll weevil.

We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments.

We remember the constant “he's not our president” and the “Resistance…”

We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.

We remember Trump supporters getting doxed, and fired from jobs.

We remember riots and looting.

We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head.

We remember a play in Central Park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump.

We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony awards and getting a standing ovation.

We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.

We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.

We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.

We remember the President and his staff being spied on.

We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield.

We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but a Trump hate fest.

We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.

We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.

We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.

We remember that supporters were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.

We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.

This list is endless, but you get the idea.

What exactly was the point of this list? It was filled with so many distortions and lies that it would make 45 proud.

You tolerated Obama. Congratulations. Many Democrats had to tolerate Bush Jr. For the most part, there weren't cries of not my president. Do you know why? Bush wasn't a rapist or racist who attacked the media, calling them the enemy of the people. Bush didn't incite a violent mob and shrug as they tried to kill his vice president. 

You had to tolerate Obama? What exactly did he do that comes even close to the atrocities that the orange sociopath has committed?

You remember impeachments. Good. I think it's good to impeach psychotics who try to extort foreign leaders and overturn elections.

You remember "not our president." And what are your feelings about things like "Let's Go Brandon?" Please do not pretend conservatives are some poor, peaceful followers just minding their own business as they're unjustly attacked.

There is nothing wrong with the Resistance. And get prepared because we have to deal with that psycho again. The Resistance will continue to fight.

Riots & looting. You mean protests because people's civil rights were being violated. I seem to recall January 6th and a bunch of whiny cowards attacking the Capitol and smearing their feces all over the walls while destroying property and attacking police officers.

When were 45 supporters attacked or doxxed? Fired from jobs? For what? If you have proof people were simply for being his supporters, please provide that.

Robert DeNiro shouted f the president. And, so what? That's his right. You know the 1st Amendment the orange felon is always going on about because he thinks it gives him the right to sic his supporters on anyone who holds him to account.

It's telling that you have an issue with fact-checking. Maybe if your guy wasn't a pathological liar, he wouldn't be constantly fact-checked.

The senators who were shot. I think that happened before 45. Do you also recall the constant death threats Dem politicians faced? Or the death threats judges faced? The swatting of Judge Chutkan and many others? Do you recall  Paul Pelosi being attacked with a hammer and your guy LAUGHING about it?

What state senators got everything they asked for? The Republican ones? Democrats had to grovel at that pathetic man's feet to get anything - and some of them still didn't get what they needed. Do you recall recently that loathsome man saying he'd make Gavin Newsom beg to get assistance for any future wildfires?

You remember 45 supporters being called names? Perhaps you missed liberals being called libtards? Perhaps you missed them being called fascists, Communists, Marxists, evil, deranged, etc.

Yeah, we have a long list, too. 

[Soapy Goddess]

9 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

What exactly was the point of this list?

It was in response to Ceindreadh who didn't understand a previous message.

In the interest of transparency, I didn't compose the list. It is making the rounds on FB. It's simply a general list made up by a Trump supporter. Thought it would suffice because apparently a heartfelt message isn't appreciated or understood.

Edited Saturday at 07:45 AM by Soapy Goddess

[FilmTVGeek80]

12 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

It was in response to Ceindreadh who didn't understand a previous message.

In the interest of transparency, I didn't compose the list. It is making the rounds on FB. It's simply a general list made up by a Trump supporter. Thought it would suffice because apparently a heartfelt message isn't appreciated or understood.

Instead of answering an honest question—or simply ignoring it—you decide to first take credit for a hateful statement and then, when called out on it, simply say that you brought it over from another site. Why post it if it doesn't reflect your views? You thought it would suffice to do what? Let us know there are a bunch of Conservatives with a grievance list who are just waiting for a chance to get revenge for the alleged wrongs done to them.

[Makai]

48 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I tolerated Obama for 8 years and although I didn't vote for him, I only hoped the best for him. I never said "he’s not my President" because he certainly was the President of the United States.

Here is my issue with the whole non-acceptance of 47:

You’re comparing your behavior to the behavior of everyone even remotely on the other side. There are plenty of people who are now MAGA who did not “tolerate” Obama. Trump himself spent years trying to paint Obama as a terrorist who was not an American citizen years before his presidency. 

Trump took out an ad calling for the death of the Central Park Five (now known as the Exonerated Five) over three decades ago and he continues to repeatedly slander them 22 years after DNA evidence confirmed they weren’t guilty. He was sued by the government for racial discrimination in 1973. The list is endless, but I don’t have the energy to continue. 

[Soapy Goddess]

1 minute ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Instead of answering an honest question—or simply ignoring it—you decide to first take credit for a hateful statement and then, when called out on it, simply say that you brought it over from another site. Why post it if it doesn't reflect your views? You thought it would suffice to do what? Let us know there are a bunch of Conservatives with a grievance list who are just waiting for a chance to get revenge for the alleged wrongs done to them.

I thought this topic was going to be like every other on this forum. I've been a member since TWOP. Posters were always very respectful of one another. But apparently this subject is bringing out the worst in some. I have never disrespected anyone, and yet when I entered the discussion, I was "attacked" at every angle, to the point of snotty replies. And remember, it's all about perception online. Regardless, I never attacked back. 

Look, I have a thick skin, but I don't appreciate bullying. You may not see it that way, but the majority here are ready to pounce on an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs. It's really a shame because I'm only asking questions that some folks are asking themselves! A spirited debate is fine, but I don't need veiled threats or accusations. That's no fun for anyone.

6 minutes ago, Makai said:

You’re comparing your behavior to the behavior of everyone even remotely on the other side. There are plenty of people who are now MAGA who did not “tolerate” Obama. Trump himself spent years trying to paint Obama as a terrorist who was not an American citizen years before his presidency. 

Trump took out an ad calling for the death of the Central Park Five (now known as the Exonerated Five) over three decades ago and he continues to repeatedly slander them 22 years after DNA evidence confirmed they weren’t guilty. He was sued by the government for racial discrimination in 1973. The list is endless, but I don’t have the energy to continue. 

Makai, I should have added a disclaimer to the dreaded list. I did NOT compose it.

I shall add the disclaimer now. I probably should delete it, but then all the replies would appear strange. How about a compromise? I'll delete the list if everyone who replied deletes their reply. Fair enough? Maybe we ALL start fresh again?

[Palimelon]

Quote

I will say, a lot of Republicans probably "put up with" Trump because they figure it wouldn't be all that different if he were less controversial. Politics is about power -- obtaining it, keeping it, wielding it. Next decade once Trump is in the rear view, there will be another Big Bad who is a threat to democracy and must be stopped. It is what it is.

They put up with him out of self-preservation. They saw what happened to members like Liz Chency. They saw how even though the party seemed to turn away from Trump after the 2020 election and Jan 6th, the people did not. If anything, the flocked to him with even more loyalty, in bigger numbers. His cult of personality is so strong the GOP is now the Cult of MAGA. They were scared that if Trump started his own party, it would break the GOP, and in the end, they called Trump's bluff.

I am sure there are many in the Republican party who can't stand the man. But we have seen even his own rivals in the party - people who criticized him, insulted him, tried to wrestle control of the party away from him - all eventually either bend the knee and endorse him, or are now quietly keeping their opinions of him to themselves.

However many "Never Trumpers" there were in the past, after the recent election, their numbers will probably dwindle even more. Though I am sure if Trump tanks the economy even more and loses some support, we will be hearing "I told you so!" from some of them.

 

[Palimelon]

Nobody is saying we need to live an wold of innocence. But being polite and inclusive should be the norm. Not saying hateful things that target minorities and other disenfranchised people shouldn't be the norm.

And as for those traits having nothing to do with politics, Mango Mussolini's political politics ARE being fueled by those personality traits.

Being a racist isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a homophobe isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a misogynist isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a xenophobe isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to an a-hole.

If those are the messages that people like, then what kind of a society is that? One built on hate? Of wanting people who aren't you to be second class citizens? For some people to have more rights than others?

 

Edited Saturday at 09:22 AM by Palimelon

[Palimelon]

Quote

You had to tolerate Obama? What exactly did he do that comes even close to the atrocities that the orange sociopath has committed?

He had the audacity to be Elected While Black.

[CheshireCat]

Quote

Trump and Trumpers are not good people. 

Quote

Republicans are not good people.  

I understand the sentiment but I think it's more complex than that. I'm pretty certain there are a lot of Trump supporters who embody what I think is the definition of the American spirit, like they’re helpful, positive, welcoming and I believe that for many of them race wouldn't make a difference. 

I believe it's true when Trump supporters say not all Trump voters are racists, sexists, homophobes, antisemites etc. But, as we just saw, it's also true that none of that is a deal-breaker for them. Yes, it says something about the people, but it also says something about the erosion of social norms and values. It tells us that where society draws the line in the sand has changed. I mostly blame social media for that.

That doesn't change that the insults and division at Trump rallies weren't a deal-breaker for his voters, I just don't think we'll get anywhere by saying Trump voters aren't good people and leave it at that. I think it's the easiest way out but there's so much more to it than that and that, if we want change, we need to look deeper and, among other things, at how we can restore the values we lost.

It's what has been so difficult for me about this election. What does it say for the future of society if voters choose division and insults based on empty promises and feelings over unity, decency, hope and compassion based on facts? 

I think that if we manage to hold meaningful elections again, campaigns needs to invest heavily in experts in combating mis-and disinformation. Because I don't think that unless we start with the same basis of facts, we can’t have any meaningful conversations.

 

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I managed to get through most of today until I saw Walz’s speech. Then I started tearing up again.

I haven't been able to watch either speech. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Enigma X said:

People can analyze this to death if they must. I am going to stick with most of his voters simply weren't going to vote for a half Black/half Southeast Asian woman. 

What's scary is your probably right. They would rather vote for racist, prejudice, rapist, felon who instigated a coup then a woman. 

The Democratics should have done this or that. Would have mattered? Nothing matters to the MAGA. Nothing Trump does or said matters. It's very frustrating. The Democrats get hammered on any little thing but Trump? Nope.

They think Biden called them garbage. They flipped out. A comedian and Trump say the same thing about Puerto Rico. He also said horrible things about Detroit and Baltimore. 

Trump and the Republican party flipped out at being called "weird". They've called women, gays, immigrants, disable, veterans, etc. so much worse. He accused the legal Haitian immigrants of a town of eating pets.  People not only believed them but harassed people and bomb threats.  

Hilliary had the emails. So did Trump's daughter Ivanka. She did the same thing. 

How do you fight that? Seriously how do you fight it?

Edited Saturday at 09:47 AM by andromeda331

[Soapy Goddess]

22 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Nobody is saying we need to live an wold of innocence. But being polite and inclusive should be the norm. Not saying hateful things that target minorities and other disenfranchised people shouldn't be the norm.

And as for those traits having nothing to do with politics, Mango Mussolini's political politics ARE being fueled by those personality traits.

Being a racist isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a homophobe isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a misogynist isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to be an a-hole.

Being a xenophobe isn't a personality trait. That's a choice to an a-hole.

If those are the messages that people like, then what kind of a society is that? One built on hate? Of wanting people who aren't you to be second class citizens? For some people to have more rights than others?

 

Look, I'm not going to defend his personality. You asked me a question and I gave you my thoughts. I'm not asking you to agree with said thoughts. 

Also, notice I haven't said a word about KH and I could say a lot. But I won't because it's not going to change your mind or even give you food for thought.

Apparently the majority of the country find her personality very off-putting. So much so, that they voted for the opposing team. And they voted based on what THEY perceived to be important issues. 

24 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

He had the audacity to be Elected While Black.

For the THIRD time, I did NOT compose the list. I even edited it to DELETE that word. So can we please move passed that?

[Palimelon]

Quote

But I won't because it's not going to change your mind

What exactly is it that you are trying to change my mind about? That Trump isn't a vile piece of garbage? That this is world we live in? We all know this is the world we live in, and some of us aren't ok with this being the world we live in. We want a better world.

Quote

I'm not going to defend his personality

His personality is driving his policy. That's the problem. This isn't a case of, saying (just as one example), "I don't believe in gay marriage on a personal level, but whatever, if people want it, they can have it", this is him fueling anti-queer legislation coming from a position of hate. Whether it's coming from his own actual views or just doing what his supporters want because he knows he has to if he wants to stay in power, the personality he projects is leading to harmful policies for some people.

Quote

Also, notice I haven't said a word about KH and I could say a lot

You can say whatever you want about her. I'm not her biggest fan, I'll cop to that, but she is a much better person than he is. Even if that is a very low bar to clear, she clears it rather well.

Quote

For the THIRD time, I did NOT compose the list. I even edited it to DELETE that word. So can we please move passed that?

That was me giving my opinion to something someone else said.

Also, to quote something someone else said:

Quote

Why post it if it doesn't reflect your views?

 

Edited Saturday at 10:10 AM by Palimelon

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi everyone, 

a few posts have been removed. Kindly remember to keep the focus on the facts and not make discussions personal. 

Thank you. 

[Soapy Goddess]

31 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

I understand the sentiment but I think it's more complex than that. I'm pretty certain there are a lot of Trump supporters who embody what I think is the definition of the American spirit, like they’re helpful, positive, welcoming and I believe that for many of them race wouldn't make a difference. 

I believe it's true when Trump supporters say not all Trump voters are racists, sexists, homophobes, antisemites etc. But, as we just saw, it's also true that none of that is a deal-breaker for them. Yes, it says something about the people, but it also says something about the erosion of social norms and values. It tells us that where society draws the line in the sand has changed. I mostly blame social media for that.

That doesn't change that the insults and division at Trump rallies weren't a deal-breaker for his voters, I just don't think we'll get anywhere by saying Trump voters aren't good people and leave it at that. I think it's the easiest way out but there's so much more to it than that and that, if we want change, we need to look deeper and, among other things, at how we can restore the values we lost.

It's what has been so difficult for me about this election. What does it say for the future of society if voters choose division and insults based on empty promises and feelings over unity, decency, hope and compassion based on facts? 

I think that if we manage to hold meaningful elections again, campaigns needs to invest heavily in experts in combating mis-and disinformation. Because I don't think that unless we start with the same basis of facts, we can’t have any meaningful conversations.

 

Thank you, Cheshire Cat for your thoughtful post. This is exactly the type of post I thought I'd encounter when I joined the discussion. 

[Soapy Goddess]

14 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

What exactly is it that you are trying to change my mind about? That Trump isn't a vile piece of garbage? That this is world we live in? We all know this is the world we live in, and some of us aren't ok with this being the world we live in. We want a better world.

His personality is driving his policy. That's the problem. This isn't a case of, saying (just as one example), "I don't believe in gay marriage on a personal level, but whatever, if people want it, they can have it", this is him fueling anti-queer legislation coming from a position of hate. Whether it's coming from his own actual views or just doing what his supporters want because he knows he has to if he wants to stay in power, the personality he projects is leading to harmful policies for some people.

You can say whatever you want about her. I'm not her biggest fan, I'll cop to that, but she is a much better person than he is. Even if that is a very low bar to clear, she clears it rather well.

 

 

No matter what I say, I keep getting the same response ad nauseum. Look, I know the majority here don't like him...and I get that. I was hoping to discuss  issues as it relates to the election without sounding like Sunny Huston and her usual mantra. 

I get you're all upset, but maybe talk about what you could do different moving forward. I may not agree with you, but I'm certainly willing to move the discussion in a positive direction.

[Eri]

For those who were asking about Project 2025, this gave a pretty good synopsis of the document in layman's terms from a legal standpoint if you are interested.

So. The week has ended.

My observations from the somber mood I've seen in my community  (offline and online) and general commentary on this thread:

If there are any people in your life who voted for this, there may be a day when the consequences of this vote catch up with them.

They will be blindsided, because they believed that the legislation, economic policies, and cultural norms endorsed by their choices would only hurt the "undesirables," not themselves.

When that day comes, your job should be to remind them that they chose this, wish them good luck, and move on with your life. Preserve your energy for those who care about the well-being of all Americans, not just themselves and those who look like them. Their suffering will be self-inflicted and, consequently, none of your concern.

You may be tempted to explain why these things are happening to them. From my observations over the last 8 years, this will be pointless. You cannot use reason to reach a person that did not use reason in the first place. These are the kinds of folks who need to be directly affected, to feel the suffering first-hand, before they finally get it.

I understand that this might be a very difficult thing for some of you to do. My low affective empathy enables me to cut hateful people out of my life with zero hesitation. You don't even have to go that far, but you may need to make it clear that they are a much lower priority in your life than they used to be.

Protect your energy and stay safe.

Edited Saturday at 05:37 PM by Eri

[Palimelon]

Quote

No matter what I say, I keep getting the same response ad nauseum

I am just giving my opinion to subjects that were brought up. I'm not sure why I have to change my views and responses.

Quote

I was hoping to discuss  issues as it relates to the election

Which is what we are doing. If some of the issues as it relates to the election don't appeal to you, or if views expressed aren't what you are expecting, then...sorry?

[nokat]

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

He had the audacity to be Elected While Black.

When he spoke in support of Harris, I remembered how eloquent he is, and remembered the hate that he got. Oh, he wore a tan suit, and oh, look at Michelle wearing a sleeveless top. These things were horrible, while Trump is a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist whose supporters bullied a thirteen year old into not pressing charges.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

No matter what I say, I keep getting the same response ad nauseum. Look, I know the majority here don't like him...and I get that. I was hoping to discuss  issues as it relates to the election without sounding like Sunny Huston and her usual mantra. 

I get you're all upset, but maybe talk about what you could do different moving forward. I may not agree with you, but I'm certainly willing to move the discussion in a positive direction.

Because he was flawless, humble, and kind? Why was he never expected to do things differently? His supporters expect that from everyone except him.  

Edited Saturday at 12:15 PM by Anela

[nokat]

9 minutes ago, Anela said:

Because he was flawless, humble, and kind? Why was he never expected to do things differently? His supporters expect that from everyone except him.  

He can be lawless, while others have to be flawless.

[Lisa418722]

12 hours ago, PRgal said:

Some guy from Harvard Business School was on CNN (or maybe it was CNBC) talking about how grocery prices wouldn't be going down if 45/47 gets his way with tariffs.  Can't grow everything domestically, some things will need to be imported.  This will also impact global economy, so we're just all going to be screwed.  

Also, if all the undocumented workers are deported, this country will lose a lot of vegetable and fruit crops because they are the majority of field workers.  But hey, as long as billionaires get their tax cuts, we can deal with "hardships."  /s/

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

Also, if all the undocumented workers are deported, this country will lose a lot of vegetable and fruit crops because they are the majority of field workers.  But hey, as long as billionaires get their tax cuts, we can deal with "hardships."  /s/

Not just that.  Domestic workers.   Child care workers.  But I'm sure Trump voters will step up and do their jobs.  Country first right?

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, Enigma X said:

People can analyze this to death if they must. I am going to stick with most of his voters simply weren't going to vote for a half Black/half Southeast Asian woman. 

I'm beginning to believe that the reason Kamala lost is because people hated what they thought she represented more than they hated Trump and all he represented. How she got skewed in their minds as being worse than Trump is mind boggling and I can only imagine the propaganda the right was spewing about her made her look like an even worse choice. She was demonized in ways worse than Biden ever was. She was ultra liberal, she only wanted to support ultra liberal causes including only women and minorities. She was weak, she wanted to let people pour in over the border, etc., etc. It amazes me that this was more repugnant to them even if untrue than Trump, but I do think people are more willing to demonize a woman, especially a minority woman than a white man no matter what he does. And again, that comes down in a nutshell to sexism and racism. It's a sad day when a man as repugnant as Trump is seen as a better choice than someone like Kamala Harris, but we're living in Biff's world so nothing makes sense anymore.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I understand the sentiment but I think it's more complex than that. I'm pretty certain there are a lot of Trump supporters who embody what I think is the definition of the American spirit, like they’re helpful, positive, welcoming and I believe that for many of them race wouldn't make a difference. 

I believe it's true when Trump supporters say not all Trump voters are racists, sexists, homophobes, antisemites etc. But, as we just saw, it's also true that none of that is a deal-breaker for them. Yes, it says something about the people, but it also says something about the erosion of social norms and values. It tells us that where society draws the line in the sand has changed. I mostly blame social media for that.

I could have written this. Supporting someone that's a racist, sexist, homophobe is not on the same level of evil as being that person, especially if it isn't what those supporters are all about themselves, but it is still evil. The degree of evil depends on how much their support impacts the world and what level of devotion they have to it.

I prefer to think that the voters that chose Trump because they were fed misinformation about both him and Harris were guilty of a lesser evil because nefarious forces were leading them not to use better judgment and to react purely on fear based on a slating of the truth. But they were also to blame to some degree for not knowing better. It's not like we don't have enough real information out there, it's just that we have many people today that do not have the foundation of critical thinking skills that they should have to know better than to fall for the BS and to see a charlatan for what he is. And they are easily swayed by propaganda online aimed specifically at the baser emotions of people with compromised critical thinking skills. We can blame the education system, society and social media for this phenomenon all day long for this, but in the end I see this as another reason why someone like Trump can look more appealing to people with weaker minds and a weaker moral foundation. These are not purely evil people, they are good people whose weaknesses have been exploited for Trump's gain, and have become more evil in a complicit way as a result.

[PRgal]

32 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

Also, if all the undocumented workers are deported, this country will lose a lot of vegetable and fruit crops because they are the majority of field workers.  But hey, as long as billionaires get their tax cuts, we can deal with "hardships."  /s/

Billionaire investors will lose out too.  The companies will go under and all their investments will disappear.  No money, no donations to support causes, no tax break.  

[Is Everyone Gone]

About "tolerating" Obama, I distinctly remember de-friending someone on FB after he made about 20 "Michelle Obama and her daughters are chimps" memes. Spare me.

[Spartan Girl]

I don’t know if I’m up for SNL tonight. Maybe the cold opening, but I’m trying not to cry anymore, and I have zero interest in what Bill Burr has to say.

[Enigma X]

32 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I could have written this. Supporting someone that's a racist, sexist, homophobe is not on the same level of evil as being that person, especially if it isn't what those supporters are all about themselves, but it is still evil. The degree of evil depends on how much their support impacts the world and what level of devotion they have to it.

 

To each their own but to me it's worse. I am more afraid of Trump supporters than I am of him. When he dies, I have to deal with what he left behind.

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know if I’m up for SNL tonight. Maybe the cold opening, but I’m trying not to cry anymore, and I have zero interest in what Bill Burr has to say.

I had my therapy session yesterday.  I was an angry blubbering mess. My therapist said she had 25 other patients going through the same thing. She is going to set up a support group.

Edited Saturday at 03:18 PM by Enigma X

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

He is a president who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He would and will sell out this country and the people in it.  Having Elon Musk around is not going to be a good thing.  

For us it won't be a good thing. Get ready for the oligarchical cabal. Remember when it was just a conspiracy theory? Well, here it is, only this time it's not in secret but blatantly out there like they know they can get away with it without consequence. When people tell me "Don't worry, the rest of the sane government will keep Trump in check", I can't believe they don't see the signs here. He'll have both the House and the Senate, and even more sycophants around him to help him get his way, plus when has he ever let the rest of the government and any kind of protocol bog him down when he really wants to do something?

This whole nightmare is really beginning to resemble a Dr. Evil movie. You can't make this crap up. Trump will make himself and his buddies even more powerful and rich at our expense and then when the whole thing is burning down, him, Elon and his whole cabal will jump into their spaceship leaving Earth behind them in flames.

[Spartan Girl]

6 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I had my therapy session yesterday.  I was an angry blubbering mess. My therapist said she had 25 other patients going through the same thing. She is going to set up a support group.

Mine’s on Monday.

Not even Tumblr is safe from MAGA. I need to pull away from political posts and focus my energy on movies again. Even though the plot of Wicked is pretty fucking relevant right now.

[Is Everyone Gone]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Mine’s on Monday.

Not even Tumblr is safe from MAGA. I need to pull away from political posts and focus my energy on movies again. Even though the plot of Wicked is pretty fucking relevant right now.

Idk if you're into the NBA, but the NBA is a relatively MAGA-free zone. 

Most NBA fans tend to skew liberal, and so do the players and coaches. It's not like NFL, where the face of a league is a charming, generous young man who ... happens to be very MAGA. (Patrick Mahomes)

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

To each their own but to me it's worse. I am more afraid of Trump supporters than I am of him. When he dies, I have to deal with what he left behind.

I had my therapy session yesterday.  I was an angry blubbering mess. My therapist said she had 25 other patients going through the same thing. She is going to set up a support group.

True but I was giving some benefit of the doubt to the people that were young and duped. I think some of them will wake up eventually and realize where they went wrong. But I agree with you about the hardcore ones, or the true believers, as they're called. Some of them are even worse. He's a chameleon, he doesn't really care about anyone but himself. He really doesn't give a crap about immigrants, fetuses and minorities, he just plays that tune for his own advancement. The people who really DO believe in that stuff are even worse than he is, you are right about that. Those are the people that will kill and hurt others over it. He is as bad as them or worse but in a different way.

Right now I wish I had a therapist. I haven't slept more than 4 or 5 hours a night since the election and it's taking a toll on me now. I feared this outcome but I was hoping I wouldn't take it as hard. I think I'm taking this worse than the 2016 election because back then I don't think I was quite aware of what he was capable of and was hoping for the best, but now I unfortunately am aware and know how bad it could get. And it scares me out of my wits.

[bluegirl147]

8 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Idk if you're into the NBA, but the NBA is a relatively MAGA-free zone. 

Most NBA fans tend to skew liberal, and so do the players and coaches. It's not like NFL, where the face of a league is a charming, generous young man who ... happens to be very MAGA. (Patrick Mahomes)

The NFL has been on the wrong side ever since what happened with Colin K.

And yes I do think Trump supporters and the people he surrounds himself with are the real danger.  He will do whatever they want as long as they praise him and tell him what a good boy he is.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I'm beginning to believe that the reason Kamala lost is because people hated what they thought she represented more than they hated Trump and all he represented.

I agree with you.  But I think all they "heard" is that she is a black woman and too many Americans couldn't handle that.

[Wiendish Fitch]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know if I’m up for SNL tonight. Maybe the cold opening, but I’m trying not to cry anymore, and I have zero interest in what Bill Burr has to say.

I cannot remember the last time I had any interest in what Bill Burr had to say. Now, more than ever, I have no tolerance or patience for aging edge-lord comedians who just rehash the same fucking points over and over again

[partofme]

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Right now I wish I had a therapist. I haven't slept more than 4 or 5 hours a night since the election and it's taking a toll on me now. I feared this outcome but I was hoping I wouldn't take it as hard. I think I'm taking this worse than the 2016 election because back then I don't think I was quite aware of what he was capable of and was hoping for the best, but now I unfortunately am aware and know how bad it could get. And it scares me out of my wits.

It feels worse to me this time because last time as bad as it was, it felt like we could fight back a little.  This time he controls both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court, and this court has already been open about how corrupt they are, so there are no checks and balances.  Plus there’s Project 2025 which will easily pass since the Republicans control the whole government, there’s him saying he wants to be a dictator, saying he wants to go after all his enemies within, I worry about the safety of the Democrats in Congress and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and people like Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel.  I even worry about my own safety, as a white female and a nobody I’m probably low on the enemies list but I don’t dare say anything against him online in my own name, I’m not really on social media except for LinkedIn because I need a job but I‘ve been afraid to even like any post that speaks out against him. 

[Yeah No]

Just now, izabella said:

I agree with you.  But I think all they "heard" is that she is a black woman and too many Americans couldn't handle that.

Yes, and because of that she was not going to represent anyone else in their minds. And I think their fears about that were stoked online. It's coming out now that the Democrats' election strategy was weaker because they weren't really aware of exactly what kind of misinformation was out there and where it was being spread. And that's a reason that Kamala herself was not able to address that misinformation head-on. But all they had to do was listen to a few MAGA people to know that so my mind boggles at how they can be so blindsided again. They didn't learn their lesson in 2016 and now it's coming back again to bite them. I hate to say that it only further makes the case that they are out of touch with the average American.

[Is Everyone Gone]

20 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

The NFL has been on the wrong side ever since what happened with Colin K.

And yes I do think Trump supporters and the people he surrounds himself with are the real danger.  He will do whatever they want as long as they praise him and tell him what a good boy he is.

it's also weird that the people in the NFL who actually took a stand against Trump weren't actually the people you'd expect.

Tom Brady and the Pats declined an invite to the Trump WH, and later on lifelong Republican Bill Belichick also declined an award from Trump.

[JustHereForFood]

18 hours ago, Dimity said:

We seem to have a Trump in training here in Canada which is not wonderful by any means but if this is of any comfort to the Americans posting here, sadly, while Trump is a very special case, it's not as unique as we'd all like it to be. 

There is a growing segment of the population that thrives on hate and dissension.  Civility in politics is becoming a very rare thing indeed.

What we see here (and perhaps this true for other countries as well?) has been an ugly backlash directed against women in politics, to the point where here in Canada many women who had been in office prior to the last election dropped out.  

 

Yeah, there are many politicians like that and they are all scoring points with the masses. It's like people got tired of civility and the more hateful politicians are, the more support they get from a large number of voters. Those voters want to be told who is responsible for their lives not being like they wanted, because it sure can't be them and their own poor economical decisions or something that affects everyone like a global pandemic and inflation. It has to be some "other" group of people.

They also say they like it when somebody "says it like it is", but they want a very specific version of that as well. When you say it like it is, as in, the situation sucks because there was a pandemic, now there is an inflation and a lot of shithead dictators and terrorists decided to escalate things and now we will all have to adjust and maybe cut our spending a little bit but it's still a lot better than what our ancestors went through or what people elsewhere in the world still go through, they sure don't want to hear that. 

[Makai]

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

No matter what I say, I keep getting the same response ad nauseum. Look, I know the majority here don't like him...and I get that. I was hoping to discuss  issues as it relates to the election without sounding like Sunny Huston and her usual mantra. 

I am going to try and word this very carefully because I truly do not want this to come off like an attack. Personally, my issue with conversations with Trump supporters (universally, I’m not referring to any single person) is that I never see them address the specific horrible things he has said and done. When people bring up how a second Trump term is likely to negatively impact queer individuals/women/the economy or the racist/sexist/violent things he has done it is either ignored, minimized or denied. 

It’s hard to have a conversation right now when people are terrified for themselves and the next generation. The simple reality is that Trump’s policies are divisive so this vote was also divisive. Trump’s policies are not for everyone. They are deliberately designed to leave out or actively punish certain groups. That’s not a divide that will not be easily (or ever) healed and it is far too raw for it to happen in the near future. 

3 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

Also, if all the undocumented workers are deported, this country will lose a lot of vegetable and fruit crops because they are the majority of field workers.  But hey, as long as billionaires get their tax cuts, we can deal with "hardships."  /s/

Yep. I wouldn’t be surprised if states like California will struggle to provide food just for themselves let alone the rest of the world. 

9 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

How about a compromise? I'll delete the list if everyone who replied deletes their reply. Fair enough? Maybe we ALL start fresh again?

I logged out right after I posted so I am only just seeing this. It’s probably too late to do anything but didn’t want to just ignore you. Most of my post works without the list since I didn’t address any specific points on the list. I have no issue with editing out the mentions of the list you posted. 

Edited Saturday at 05:23 PM by Makai

[Makai]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Not just that.  Domestic workers.   Child care workers.  But I'm sure Trump voters will step up and do their jobs.  Country first right?

Construction workers. Anyone who thinks mass deportation will make homes more affordable is in for a rude awakening when new home construction grinds to a halt and prices skyrockets. Deportation and tariffs will create a vicious cycle driving costs up. 

Oh and for anyone keeping track, today’s trending google search that people should have researched before the damn vote is denaturalization. 

[Fable]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

To each their own but to me it's worse. I am more afraid of Trump supporters than I am of him. When he dies, I have to deal with what he left behind.

This is pretty much how I feel.  No matter the reasons they had, or at least, gave, whether the economy or being republican to their core and wouldn't vote any other way, I think the majority of them saw how vile, craven, self-centered and amoral he was.  Yet, it seems they wanted and approved of it.  

Most of his supporters that I know fairly well, don't seem like over-the-top nutjobs who are angry and radical.  However, they knew good and well that kids weren't going to school and coming home with gender changes and that babies weren't being murdered after birth, but they reasoned Biden was too old, and then when Biden stepped aside, well they said, they really didn't know enough about Kamala.  Trump was also old, and you knew plenty enough about him and his chaotic ways.  Give me a break, you were going to vote for him anyway!  You don't need an excuse to vote anyway you see fit.  Just own it!  

Edited Saturday at 05:02 PM by Fable

[Palimelon]

Some more food for thought:

White noise: why hatred of Donald Trump fuels his success as much as his supporters’ love.

Think you know how bad Trump unleashed will be? Look at the evidence: it will be even worse.

‘They say Democrats look down on me’: Trump win spurred by populist backlash.