S01.E05: "Darkest hour/ wake thy power"

[Sakura12]

With enemies closing in, the coven flees under the light of a blood moon to the next ghastly trial.

[Morrigan2575]

So, I guess they confirmed Teen is Wiccan. But how? Unless he's from an AU. 

I'm very said thay Alice died, I didn't expect that. Also, not sure if thay ending was even real, no Rio and the mains are dead? Plus they didnt even seen to be acting like themselves after they left the trial.

All very curious.

I did love the broom/flying sequence. 

I'm starting to wonder if this isn't all some Hex and none of it is real.

Edited October 10 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

I think the trial is still going. It's Agatha's show she gets a 2 part trial. It may be the teen and Agatha's trial.

They were all acting differently after Alice died. I'm guessing

 

Rio stayed behind to collect Alice's soul. I like how she laughed when the oujii board said death was with them.

I guess the sigil been destroyed since Agatha knows who he is now and he got his mother's crown. This may be the trial punishing Agatha, she was buried by the son of the Scarlett Witch. It's her choice what she does now. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10 by Sakura12

[AimingforYoko]

Worst kept secret is confirmed. What his ultimate agenda is, we'll see I guess.

I agree this is all part of Agatha's trial.

[Jediknight]

I was not expecting the reveal of Teen's identity to come this early.  I legit loudly blurted out "Oh shit!"  Kathryn Hahn killed it when she said "Are you sure" and her mood changed and she let Teen know that she knows he's Wanda's son.  The show continues to be creepy.

There were 2 bad things about this episode though, the first being it's length.  It was less than 30 minutes.  The second being that they're dressed in 80's clothes in a camp cabin, and there wasn't one machete or hockey mask.  Make your darn free throws.

[kay1864]

Is this foreshadowing?

Spoiler

 

Edited October 10 by kay1864

[Nacos for Rufus]

So how did Agatha figure out who the teen was? Was it because she realized he was most definitely not Nicholas Scratch, and deduced from there? Also, do we think she really “didn’t mean to “ start siphoning off Alice’s power? Sometimes I forget that she is, in fact, a villain, and not just misunderstood.

[Bruinsfan]

It wouldn't be out of character for her to have done it intentionally, but then again I would find panicked and instinctive defensive reaction plausible while being possessed by the ghost of the mother who tried to execute you and wants to keep you in her clutches forever for punishment.

[Bill1978]

OMG! Yes! I have been waiting years for Wiccan to appear and finally it appears to confirm Teen is Wiccan. I just hope I don't have to wait yeas for something Young Avengers related.

I'm very glad I chose to watch this during Australian daytime, I'm a wuss and some of this episode was a little too creepy for me to be watching at night before bed haha.

I feel there is more to this episode that what we have seen. The episode seemed to quickly end after Teen said Nicholas Scratch. I'm wondering if they are actually still trapped in the house and the trial is still happening. Or this is all some sort of Teen hallucination? It's just weird that technically to succeed in the trial it required NIcholas to announce his name on the Ouija board.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, look at how Rio is consistently threatening to kill Agatha in various ways, but anytime Agatha's mother is brought up or involved, she suddenly gets protective of her.  Yeah, I'm sure Rio still plans for bad things to happen, but I do think she feels bad for what Agatha's mom tried to do to her and it reminds her why she probably still cares about Agatha on some level.  Really hope we get to learn more about their history and this relationship.  Aubrey Plaza continues to shine.

Whelp, as expected, Mysterious Teen is none other than Wiccan a.k.a. Billy Maximoff!  You just knew Wanda or someone related to her was going to factor in.  And the man not just possibly killed Agatha for what she did to Alice, but he might have offed Jen and Lilia as well?  I guess he's just going with the assumption this whole coven; or maybe even all witches; are bad and need to go?  Curious to see how this plays out.  Already off to a solid start with that crown and even getting to go out to Billie Eilish's "You Should See Me in a Crown."  Probably one of the better musical choices by Marvel in some time.

Poor Alice though.  Tries to help Agatha, only for Agatha to use that help to just steal her power (and end her life) instead.  Seemed like it started from a place of desperation from Agatha's part, but after showing some concern and guilt for a second, she certainly when into smug and sneering mode at the end.  Was that all a front or what she truly felt?

Loved the broomstick scene and how they were all initially grumbling over it since they feel like everyone has ruined it and made it dated.

The 80s setting was nice, even if I wish we got more of it.  

I obviously doubt Agatha (and everyone else) is dead, so I'm guessing this is all part of the trial or you don't actually "die" on the road but go somewhere else.

[HelloooKitty]

So if Teen truly is Billy, is the bf we saw calling him back at the beginning Hulkling/Teddy? He does exist in universe as per the final episode of SheHulk. That would be a fun little Easter egg. 

[arc]

13 hours ago, HelloooKitty said:

So if Teen truly is Billy, is the bf we saw calling him back at the beginning Hulkling/Teddy? He does exist in universe as per the final episode of SheHulk.

I don't know this corner of the MU very well, but according to the Fandom wiki, Skaar and Hulkling are two completely different young giant green superheroes. Wiccan's boyfriend, the one called "Hulkling", is the one who's not gamma powered. Comics!

This was a solid episode though the flying VFX definitely looked cheap as hell.

As far as escape rooms go, this one was even less satisfying than Alice's trial. I certainly hope it'll be a two-parter, if only so Agatha can be a more active participant in the trial that was supposedly hers to solve.

Edited October 10 by arc

[kay1864]

So all along (snort) when Teen was saying his name, was he saying William Maximoff, rather than Wiccan? I tend to think the former, since the obscuring symbol looked kind of like W and M run together.

Edited October 10 by kay1864

[kay1864]

Heh. Clever callback, show.

And

Edited October 10 by kay1864

[PurpleTentacle]

I liked this episode, but man did it feel short. Probably because it was very short. Actually only 24 minutes.

In principle it's nice that streaming shows can have episodes that fit the story being told and don't have to artificially pad or truncate a story, but with a show that is released week by week, sub half an hour is just a major bummer.

I like what amazon is doing with the Legend of Vox Machina. 3 episodes a week. That is short enough for watercooler talk and leaves enough weeks to build up hype, but not so short that it feels like you are starving and somebody just gave you a spoon full of a delicious meal, only to snatch the rest of the meal away before you can eat any more. Which is how I feel after this episode.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Aww, look at how Rio is consistently threatening to kill Agatha in various ways, but anytime Agatha's mother is brought up or involved, she suddenly gets protective of her.  Yeah, I'm sure Rio still plans for bad things to happen, but I do think she feels bad for what Agatha's mom tried to do to her and it reminds her why she probably still cares about Agatha on some level.  Really hope we get to learn more about their history and this relationship.  Aubrey Plaza continues to shine.

Spoiler

Thing is, if Agatha dies Rio has her forever. If her mom gets her, she might never see her again.

 

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Already off to a solid start with that crown and even getting to go out to Billie Eilish's "You Should See Me in a Crown."  Probably one of the better musical choices by Marvel in some time.

It was a very on the nose choice, but it just worked so well, I'm not even mad. Actually I loved it.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I obviously doubt Agatha (and everyone else) is dead, so I'm guessing this is all part of the trial or you don't actually "die" on the road but go somewhere else.

I'm not sure about Alice, but the rest are clearly still alive, yes.

I have also considered that deaths on the road might not be real. But then again, what happened after Sharon died points to it being very real.

Also if deaths aren't real that would confirm that Agatha never actually walked the road before and was just bullshitting. Which could be a thing, but I'm not sure. Or there is a choice at the end. You can take the power or get your fallen coven members back. Old Agatha obviously would have chosen the power, but current Agatha might chose her coven. Which would be a great way to show her growth. Otherwise you might always wonder what her motives really were, but giving up power for the lives of others, that would be pretty clear cut.

Anyway, if Alice really is dead, that sure would be a major bummer after last week. She finally killed a generational curse, that killed all the women in her family, only to die like an hour later, with no daughters of her own. So basically killing the curse did nothing. Nothing would have changed if she didn't...

[PurpleTentacle]

Oh forgot to mention: Another clue that this wasn't Agatha's real trial yet is that for all the other trials the aspect ratio of the video changed. For this it didn't.

[Enigma X]

I was 90% confident that I knew who Teen was but was afraid it was a misdirect. I am so glad I was wrong!

[Sakura12]

I still think Agatha's trial is still going because she's a Spirit Witch and her dead (her mother, her son and the children of her former coven) are haunting her. She probably has to figure out way to help them to pass her trial. 

But Agatha being Agatha always makes it harder by thinking the rules don't apply to her. 

Billy's was using his mind control powers to control Jen and Lilia, I don't know why he threw them too though. 

I also think we saw Lilia's prementions. "Alice, Alice don't, try to save Agatha"

[lovett1979]

Wow, so much in this episode! So Teen is Billy Maximoff (in some way or another), fine. All the smug people on Twitter were right. But there's a lot in this episode that doesn't make sense, or feels incomplete.

What was the trial, exactly? If it's Agatha's trial (and how did Rio know that?), I suppose that facing her mother's ghost and/or getting punished by the coven would be the defining action (Jen making the antidote, Alice fighting the curse). But that didn't really happen. The mother possessed her, Alice blasted the ghost out (who then kind of disappeared, but for no actual reason), Agatha then sucked Alice's magic (it seemed that it was accidental/automatic/reflex at first but then she couldn't or wouldn't stop), she was only able/forced to stop when Teen said "Nicholas Scratch" (who's spirit was controlling the Ouja board spelling that out, btw?), and then she stopped and the attic door opened. What did she learn? What was her breakthrough?

With Teen's identity revealed, now every action of his we've seen so far is open for new interpretations. What did he know, what is his plan, is he actually controlling everything???

Btw, when the ghost mom was saying that Agatha was born evil and she should have killed her then, did anyone else get "homophobic mom would rather have a dead child than a queer one" vibes? There were a lot of cuts to Rio in that exchange, and she was so defensive of Agatha against her mom.

[Mvnl]

Have a feeling what happened with Alice hints at what happened with Nicholas, and Agatha just doesn't want to let anyone know she's got no control over her power.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Billy's was using his mind control powers to control Jen and Lilia, I don't know why he threw them too though. 

He was when they grabbed Agatha but, even before that they seemed odd. Like they went from raging at Agatha to oddly accepting Alice's fate in a second. It just felt really off which is either bad writing or hinting at something more...I'm hoping it's the second option

[Sakura12]

I'm wondering if they were all possessed. The trials do seem to impact all of them. They were all poisoned by the wine and they all got Alice's curse. 

I can see Billy being upset that Alice died. She was the only one that was always nice to him and looking out for everyone. Now they lost their protection Witch. 

 

[Quickbeam]

I also felt this episode was super short. When the credits started I was “wait a minute, it’s over?”. Plus I am watching this without knowing the canon so I feel kind of in the weeds. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm wondering if they were all possessed. The trials do seem to impact all of them. They were all poisoned by the wine and they all got Alice's curse. 

I can see Billy being upset that Alice died. She was the only one that was always nice to him and looking out for everyone. Now they lost their protection Witch. 

 

It's certainly possible that they were possesed either by Agatha's mother or Nicholas Scratch or whatever is controlling the Road/Trials.

I do agree that this ended too abruptly and that Episode 6 should be a continuation (i hope) of Agatha's trial

[Sakura12]

Lilia said I hated this the last time we did this. Does that mean they have do this trial again? And that's where the Alice, don't try to save Agatha comes from. 

[Snapdragon]

So I'm hoping that next week's episode explains a lot of things, because most of this episode just did not make sense.  What was the point of the trial?  How does Agatha suddenly know who Teen is?  I'm hoping that other posters are right and next week is the second part of the trial.

And on the subject of things that don't make sense, why are the different houses themed like they are?  With Wandavision, all the different motifs for the episodes were one theme (sitcoms) and that tied into Wanda's desire for an ideal family life.  The houses on this show are just random.  I'd get it if each house was from each witch's past or was inspired by a famous piece of media about witches/magic or even different horror films, but they're just all random themes with no connection to what's going on in the show.

 

[Mvnl]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Lilia said I hated this the last time we did this. Does that mean they have do this trial again? And that's where the Alice, don't try to save Agatha comes from. 

I think that refers more to when Agatha met her first and she covered her ears, and had a premonition of the moment that sound played.

[Makai]

14 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

What was the trial, exactly? If it's Agatha's trial (and how did Rio know that?), I suppose that facing her mother's ghost and/or getting punished by the coven would be the defining action (Jen making the antidote, Alice fighting the curse). But that didn't really happen. The mother possessed her, Alice blasted the ghost out (who then kind of disappeared, but for no actual reason), Agatha then sucked Alice's magic (it seemed that it was accidental/automatic/reflex at first but then she couldn't or wouldn't stop), she was only able/forced to stop when Teen said "Nicholas Scratch" (who's spirit was controlling the Ouja board spelling that out, btw?), and then she stopped and the attic door opened. What did she learn? What was her breakthrough?

 

All of what you wrote is why I agree with those that think the trial isn’t complete.  One other hint is the first two exits went down so they were literally going down the witches road. This time the exit went up.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I was hoping that someone would shove Alice out of the way so that Agatha would stop draining her.

I believe that Agatha doesn't control the flow of power to her that happens when she is attacked-or at least not the beginning of it. It appears to be a self-defense mechanism.  Based on how quickly her original coven died when they were "burning" her at the stake, only for their powers to energize her and then explode out, I don't know that she consciously killed them, either.  The same thing seemed to have happened after her mother attacked her.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

7 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

So I'm hoping that next week's episode explains a lot of things, because most of this episode just did not make sense.  What was the point of the trial?  How does Agatha suddenly know who Teen is?  I'm hoping that other posters are right and next week is the second part of the trial.

I think she just put it together. Teen said the name Nicholas Scratch, confirming once and for all that he can't be her son, since if he was, the sigil would have prevented him from saying the name. So who else could he be?

7 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

And on the subject of things that don't make sense, why are the different houses themed like they are?  With Wandavision, all the different motifs for the episodes were one theme (sitcoms) and that tied into Wanda's desire for an ideal family life.  The houses on this show are just random.  I'd get it if each house was from each witch's past or was inspired by a famous piece of media about witches/magic or even different horror films, but they're just all random themes with no connection to what's going on in the show.

The houses are on theme. Probably drawn from their collective subconscious.

Jen's house was a house where one of her bougie wine-mom clients would live and the trial was also themed accordingly.

Alice's house was a recording studio from the time when her mother recorded that protection song.

Agatha's house was from an 80s horror film, because of the ghost summoning. This one might seem the most far fetched. I think it comes from what most of them associate with séances and summoning ghost, or at least it's the one association that all of them have in common and so the road made it. Also it's probably not over, so we'll see where it goes.

[Enigma X]

I've been seeing a lot of chatter online about Agatha particularly this idea that she can't help but drain power from others, as if it's beyond her control. While that might have been the case initially with Alice, it seemed pretty clear to me in WandaVision that Agatha knew exactly what she was doing. Sure, when she started draining Alice's life force, maybe she didn't realize what was happening at first—but by the end, she knew Alice was dying and didn’t care.

In WandaVision it’s clear she specifically targets Wanda to steal her power. Agatha's plan was deliberate and calculated, and two things can be true: she was treated horribly by her mother and coven, but she's also fully aware of the pain she causes and doesn't hesitate to hurt others. I love the idea of Agatha being a complex character and want her to stay firmly a villain. She’s compelling because she chooses to do bad things, not because forces beyond her control somehow drive her.

On a different note, I love Wiccan and understand why he gets so much attention, but I hope we don't forget about Speed (Tommy). He’s a great character too! As a huge Quicksilver fan—specifically Aaron Taylor-Johnson’s version—I was seriously bummed when he was killed off in the MCU. I think Speed has the potential to bring that same kind of energy back.

And lastly, I know I’m probably the only person in the world who isn't a fan of Aubrey Plaza’s brand of acting and typecasting. That’s all I’ll say about that!

[Snapdragon]

26 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

 

And lastly, I know I’m probably the only person in the world who isn't a fan of Aubrey Plaza’s brand of acting and typecasting. That’s all I’ll say about that!

No, I'm with you.  Almost every time Rio speaks, it takes me out of the show.  All the characters feel like real people (well, as real as you can get for a campy show about witches) but Audrey Plaza is doing the same character she usually does.  

[Makai]

11 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I've been seeing a lot of chatter online about Agatha particularly this idea that she can't help but drain power from others, as if it's beyond her control. While that might have been the case initially with Alice, it seemed pretty clear to me in WandaVision that Agatha knew exactly what she was doing. Sure, when she started draining Alice's life force, maybe she didn't realize what was happening at first—but by the end, she knew Alice was dying and didn’t care.

I like the interpretation that Agatha is an addict. In the moment, she knew what she was doing but in the midst of getting a fix she didn’t care. 

Edited October 11 by Makai

[Night Cheese]

4 hours ago, Enigma X said:

And lastly, I know I’m probably the only person in the world who isn't a fan of Aubrey Plaza’s brand of acting and typecasting. That’s all I’ll say about that!

I'm with you, although I think it's an unpopular opinion. I could take or leave April Ludgate, but AP playing the same ish character all the time gets old. She looks like she's having a blast playing Rio (and I'm happy for her), but I lose interest in the storyline whenever she's featured.

[PurpleTentacle]

I don't think this performance has much to do with April Ludgate. It is really close to Lenny Busker though, I'll give you that. But so far I'm enjoying it. She is over the top at times, but last episode we got some genuine emotion and imo good acting from Plaza.

If you want a completely different performance from her, I recommand The White Lotus. She does have range. She's just often cast in the same ballpark.

Edited October 11 by PurpleTentacle

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:52 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

If you want a completely different performance from her, I recommend The White Lotus. She does have range. She's just often cast in the same ballpark.

Like Natasha Lyonne is.

 

 

[tennisgurl]

In news that is not at all shocking, we find out that Teen is actually Wiccan AKA Billy Maximoff one of Wanda's lost sons. The real question isn't the who, its the why and the how. How does Billy even exist in this universe?  Where did he come from? Who put the spell on him that wouldn't let anyone hear his name? How much does he know about who he is? Where is his brother Tommy? Where does Mephisto fit into all of this?! 

I hope that Alice is actually alive somehow, I really like her and it would really suck if she managed to break her family curse only to die about five minutes later. I feel like Agatha started out pulling Alice's powers by accident but then just kept on going out of excitement to get power back, I totally buy that she didn't mean to kill Alice but couldn't find it in herself to stop when she started. 

So I get why Billy turned his powers against Agatha, but why did he throw Jen and Lilia into the bog too after he mind controlled them? 

The 80s setting was fun, even if we missed a real opportunity to have Agatha running around with a hockey mask on. The brooms were also a fun bit, even if it is stereotypical and basic. Its a classic for a reason!