S21.E13: Set Sail

[caitmcg]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

I have wondered how/when Ed Lee elevated from normal cheftestant -- who did very well but wasn't a total rockstar -- to an esteemed guest judge. I don't know how to explain this, exactly: Lots of TC folks come back but they seem (to me) to be presented as "former TC contestant returning" and he seems more like an independently famous chef. Maybe because he was older and has a certain gravitas? Maybe just because he's done well on TV. I don't know. Anywho, I dig his fashion sense and appreciate how he strongly he goes against the grain of the judging at times. He is often a BIG outlier (which TPTB probably wouldn't want in a permanent judge)

I dunno, but his cookbook Smoke & Pickles is great.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, MamaGee said:

His smugness that Tom had cleaned his plate after his first dish was at best delusional, at worst a straight up lie.

Is there a reason to think he lied about Tom cleaning his plate?  Undercooking a few pieces of fish is a technical error but it doesn't automatically make fish inedible or dangerous to eat.  And, if I remember correctly, the judges had high marks for the flavors of that dish.  So I could see Tom being disappointed by the technical error but still eating the whole thing because he liked the taste.

4 hours ago, snarktini said:

I have wondered how/when Ed Lee elevated from normal cheftestant -- who did very well but wasn't a total rockstar -- to an esteemed guest judge. I don't know how to explain this, exactly: Lots of TC folks come back but they seem (to me) to be presented as "former TC contestant returning" and he seems more like an independently famous chef. Maybe because he was older and has a certain gravitas? Maybe just because he's done well on TV.

I do think he appeared on Top Chef just as he was about to start getting recognized more.  All of his James Beard nominations came after he filmed Top Chef.  Plus, as you point out, he has been on TV and had well-reviewed cookbooks. 

[MamaGee]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

s there a reason to think he lied about Tom cleaning his plate?

The only reason I can think of to lie was to throw the other chefs off. Because Tom told him during Judges Table that his fish was raw and he didn't finish it. The reason I think Dan didn't lie is he was flabbergasted when Tom said it during judging. Dan might want to have his eyesight checked; Tom did not finish that dish!

[ZettaK]

13 hours ago, snarktini said:

I have wondered how/when Ed Lee elevated from normal cheftestant -- who did very well but wasn't a total rockstar -- to an esteemed guest judge. I don't know how to explain this, exactly: Lots of TC folks come back but they seem (to me) to be presented as "former TC contestant returning" and he seems more like an independently famous chef. Maybe because he was older and has a certain gravitas? Maybe just because he's done well on TV. I don't know. 

We see some more because they are good at public relations/promoting themselves.

[pasdetrois]

On 6/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, EastCoast4Life said:

I do like Kristen, and I'm kind of shocked I like her as much as I do! She has also thrown down some damn outfits this season!

I enjoy her very much. We needed something different from Padma - who tended to drone on in a monotone. I love Kristen's outfits.

[GeorgiaRai]

I think Dan really thought Tom liked & finished his dish.  Not sure what gave him that impression, but he seemed to sincerely believe that's what he saw.

I very much relate to Dan's Eeyore personality & hope he does well at the finale.

I love Kristen.  And Ed Lee. 

[marybennet]

I read? or saw? Kristen saying some time that she eats more of the dishes she doesn’t like, trying to figure out what’s wrong. Maybe that was happening with Tom with Dan’s dish, and Dan misread what it meant. 

[tessabq]

Not on the topic of the food, but the choice of location for the judging was depressing, even without the comments about the chefs' mostly dismal showing. 

Very little about this season felt fun or joyful to me. I began my viewing with Season 1, Episode 1. If this were my first season, I'm not sure I'd watch another.

I do love Kristen and am glad for the energy she brings.

[seacliffsal]

It seemed to me that the contestants were cooking to not be the worst instead of cooking to be the best.  Several of them stated that they hoped they did enough to not be eliminated-Dan seemed to be the only one who was really trying to 'win' the challenge IMO.  Playing safe, hoping someone makes a worst mistake-no, not entertaining to me but I get that it's a way to 'play the game.'  This episode reminded me why I was not impressed with very many of the contestants at the beginning of the season.  It seems that the judges felt that the contestants all took a step backwards instead of forward.  

[WaffleQueen]

I'm having trouble figuring out whether this batch of contestants is worse on average, or if we've just been spoiled from the past few years by the caliber of contestants (with the caveat that S17 and S20 were all-stars).

[mellyf]

On 6/13/2024 at 5:54 PM, I Want My MBTV said:

I don't have strong feelings about Dan one way or the other but I must say I'm very surprised to see him in the final two for fan favorite!  

That surprises me too. I liked Dan for about the first half of the season, but I'm kind of over him at this point. Loved Michelle and was sad to see her go, but I'm Team Savannah right now, although I wouldn't be too disappointed if Danny won. 

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, WaffleQueen said:

I'm having trouble figuring out whether this batch of contestants is worse on average, or if we've just been spoiled from the past few years by the caliber of contestants (with the caveat that S17 and S20 were all-stars).

I do think the past four seasons have been higher caliber than usual because of the all-star seasons and the COVID seasons. During COVID, there were closed restaurants and displaced chefs with availability to do this show.

It's hard to truly compare but I think it's probably middle of the road.  Not the greatest but also maybe not as bad as immediate comparison would have us believe. 

[Domenicholas]

I love Ed Lee. His snark made him one of the only entertaining contestants in Season 9. I wished he would have made it to the Top Chef Olympics for his running commentary.

I'm rooting for Savannah to win. I love how she was in the background for the first couple of episodes before skyrocketing to the front of the pack. I think this is Danny's to lose; he reminds me a lot of Buddha, even down to the pastry chef wife.

[bravofan27]

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

I do think he appeared on Top Chef just as he was about to start getting recognized more.  All of his James Beard nominations came after he filmed Top Chef.  Plus, as you point out, he has been on TV and had well-reviewed cookbooks. 

Plus, he WANTS to be famous. He has had a publicist team since he was on top chef booking him gigs and getting him book deals. I think his wife is much older than him, has money, and connected. 

Edited June 16 by bravofan27

[buttersister]

I met Ed Lee when he gave a demo at Green City  farmer’s market. He was unknown at the time, but had great humor and I still make his corn risotto with blitzed corn “butter” and cob stock. Tasso ham garnish. Sooo good and who knew about corn cob stock in the 00s? (Outside of Southern or Iowan moms?) So yeah, glad to see him on my TV. Glad he won this year’s Beard Humanitarian Award.

He could judge TC more often, Tom. Tom? I think he gives a good critique of dishes—and an entertaining one. 

[Norma Desmond]

I seem to like the contestants that most posters on this board dislike - that was the case with Buddha, and now Dan. I don't see arrogance or entitlement from him, far from it.

I am rooting for him to win but I guess this is either Danny's or Savannah's. The judges seem to like her a lot. Her dishes never impressed me, and I think she tends to play it safe, over and over. I disliked Laura in the beginning, but her food did impress me at times.

I agree that this has been an underwhelming season, especially after seasons 20 and 21 with Buddha. I don't really like or dislike this group, but they are pretty forgettable.

[MerBearHou]

I’ll add myself to the group that likes Dan.  I very much like his Eeyore, sometimes Seinfeld type of personality.  I like his humor and self-deprecation and have also noticed numerous times he’s cheered on his co-chefs.  I have always liked Danny and find him to be a really solid, grounded guy.  Savannah is warm and someone I’d like to know, though I could say that about everyone in this final three.  

Edited June 16 by MerBearHou

[Rai]

I don't think Dan was lying. I think he really believed Tom liked his dish. I also don't particularly find him arrogant. I'm just not quite on his wavelength.

[Yeah No]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:31 PM, Souris said:

Good thing nobody was seasick. 

I'm not so sure about that.  I thought Savannah in particular didn't look well and was I the only person that caught her comment about the ginger? At judging she explained that she strained the pieces of ginger from her dish but then put a few back in "because you know, we needed it". Ginger is a natural symptom reliever for motion and seasickness.  Dramamine even makes a natural version that's made of mostly ginger.

I am also theorizing that feeling unwell might be the reason why Savannah and perhaps some of them didn't perform so well, but I also think they were facing some technical issues from bein inexperienced in a cruise ship kitchen, which is not like a regular kitchen.

 

On 6/13/2024 at 3:07 AM, Irlandesa said:

That's what I was wondering.  Not that the ovens weren't up to snuff but that there maybe was something about the ovens that's a bit different than landlocked ovens. 

Yes, there are differences not only to the ovens but to other things too. Because of the concern about a fire starting aboard a ship there are no open flames or gas powered stoves or ovens on a cruise ship. They employ other equipment and methods of cooking things which are not commonly found in regular restaurant kitchens and unfortunately don't translate well if you're not used to cooking with them.  

I am disappointed and surprised that no open mention was made of any of this on the episode and that Tom and the rest of the judges judged the food as if the chefs had no technical issues and could have cooked finale worthy dishes in spite of feeling unwell and being equipment-challenged. It especially bothered me when Tom kept going on about a lack of browning or "sear" on someone's fish when that is probably much harder if not impossible to achieve to his satisfaction given the equipment they were using.  It certainly would have explained why these chefs were not performing as well as usual.  

Even before this episode I knew it would be between Laura and Savannah but I can't help but wonder what the outcome would have been if not for their challenges and I am not so hard nosed that I think they should have been able to cook up to par despite all that they were probably struggling with in this episode.

Otherwise, it was wonderful seeing Ed Lee and Morimoto again.  I related to the chefs' "once in a lifetime experience" as I once ate at the sushi bar years ago when Morimoto was at Nobu in NYC and he prepared my sushi!  

[dgpolo]

1 hour ago, Rai said:

I don't think Dan was lying. I think he really believed Tom liked his dish. I also don't particularly find him arrogant. I'm just not quite on his wavelength.

Pretty much what I think too. But I do wonder about a few things.

1. I thought, and the editing makes it look, like the chefs leave after introducing their food, so did Dan stick around somewhere unseen and watch Tom eat his food? Did a server tell him? I didn't understand that part.

2. On another chef's turn, I forget which, there was a quick shot that made it look like Tom's dish was not only empty, but clean. Like there never was food in it to begin with? Maybe that quick shot was from a redo that was spliced in? Maybe Tom was also feeling unwell and only ate the tiniest bit that he had to in order to judge the dish? I'll try to re-watch and see if that's really what I saw.

I also agree with someone up thread that they needed a longer shot of Morimoto's sushi roll. That was a real work of art.

[caitmcg]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I am disappointed and surprised that no open mention was made of any of this on the episode and that Tom and the rest of the judges judged the food as if the chefs had no technical issues and could have cooked finale worthy dishes in spite of feeling unwell and being equipment-challenged. It especially bothered me when Tom kept going on about a lack of browning or "sear" on someone's fish when that is probably much harder if not impossible to achieve to his satisfaction given the equipment they were using.  It certainly would have explained why these chefs were not performing as well as usual.  

Eh, I'm not so sure about that in the case where it was actually an issue. Tom was commenting on Laura's roasted fish, and the judges made the point that roasting at a higher heat with a topping with different ingredients would have made the difference between a pallid baked fish and a roasted fish with some browning and caramelization. Laura was satisfied with the dish she put out, from what we were shown, so if she felt there was an issue with the equipment, it wasn't portrayed in the edit. On the other hand, Dan had no problem cooking his blackened fish well on the stovetop, and a proper blackened fish requires searing at high heat.

[buttersister]

My induction stovetop is the electric version of a gas one, fast, instantly responsive, holds temp. So a cast iron pan on high temp will give you all the sear you’d want. Seems like any stove could get you a hot pan. Maybe that’s what Dan blackened with?

[ZettaK]

18 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I’ll add myself to the group that likes Dan.  I very much like his Eeyore, sometimes Seinfeld type of personality.  I like his humor and self-deprecation and have also noticed numerous times he’s cheered on his co-chefs.  I have always liked Danny and find him to be a really solid, grounded guy.  Savannah is warm and someone I’d like to know, though I could say that about everyone in this final three.  

His joke about the poisonous fish and elimination was funny.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, caitmcg said:

Eh, I'm not so sure about that in the case where it was actually an issue. Tom was commenting on Laura's roasted fish, and the judges made the point that roasting at a higher heat with a topping with different ingredients would have made the difference between a pallid baked fish and a roasted fish with some browning and caramelization. Laura was satisfied with the dish she put out, from what we were shown, so if she felt there was an issue with the equipment, it wasn't portrayed in the edit. On the other hand, Dan had no problem cooking his blackened fish well on the stovetop, and a proper blackened fish requires searing at high heat.

Laura probably chose to make her dish based on her circumstances which is why she didn't attempt making anything that required a sear on it, but the ovens themselves were somehow different and threw her off, and obviously not just her judging from the results. Because some of their fish came out raw or dry it seemed to me like a matter of either over or under compensating for cooking equipment that wasn't familiar, had some quirks, and operated a little differently.

6 hours ago, buttersister said:

My induction stovetop is the electric version of a gas one, fast, instantly responsive, holds temp. So a cast iron pan on high temp will give you all the sear you’d want. Seems like any stove could get you a hot pan. Maybe that’s what Dan blackened with?

To be honest, I never saw a blackened fish as pallid looking as Dan's even though he was the only one that even attempted a sear. There was nothing blackened about his dish either color-wise or sear-wise. I think he got by based on the flavor and the five spice powder that gave the dish a different, and to the judges, creative and delicious taste.

Also, I did not see many opportunities for creating a hard sear on anything in that kitchen. There were many pots around but hardly any frying pans and very few induction burners and when there were they were these little individual pads which were probably used primarily to make sauces with all those pots hanging around so they didn't get very hot. There were mostly flat top grills used to cook large quantities of food. When Dan was cooking his fish I did not see the energy in that pan that would be needed to create the kind of sear the judges usually look for and certainly the visual results didn't look like he achieved that either.  

I have to say that in this episode in particular the judges' comments didn't necessarily matching up to the outcome. On a few occasions we heard them only highly compliment a chef's food at the table while eating it, but later during judging suddenly they were trashing parts of it they never complained about while dining. Some of that didn't add up to me nor feel congruent. So I don't know, but I feel like we didn't see the full picture when it comes to the way the judges felt about any of these dishes. I think Dan put out a better dish than some of the others, but that may not be saying much and may be based on flavor and the fact that his fish was actually juicy AND cooked at the same time and not raw or overcooked. But as to how much of a sear he got on that dish, he may have gotten away with less of that because other aspects of it were better than some of the other dishes presented.

[Rammchick]

On 6/15/2024 at 10:21 AM, marybennet said:

I read? or saw? Kristen saying some time that she eats more of the dishes she doesn’t like, trying to figure out what’s wrong. 

Yes, that was on The Dish with Kish.

Edited June 17 by Rammchick

[dleighg]

So Laura said when she thinks about Caribbean food, she immediately thinks of the Yucatan Peninsula. Then an immediate segue into Acapulco. Probably just an editing "skip" but (checks map) Acapulco is on the opposite coast from the Yucatan Peninsula.

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 6/12/2024 at 9:34 PM, Ancaster said:

 

  Hide contents

I really wanted him to go home.

  Hide contents

And they really telegraphed his Quickfire win.

Case in point - he acted all hurt just because Laura announced the two fish she wanted.  Why wouldn't she?  It's a competition.  (I thought she gave up the snapper too quickly.)

And then he had to sneer when she (or maybe Laura) was going to make blackened fish because "no-one makes it any more."  And then he made it.  Ugh.

I think they flubbed up that choosing of the fish.  Savannah was able to choose her fish first. Then they should have each went around and selected one fish, starting randomly.  Then, a second round of selecting fish, maybe in reverse order that time.  That would have been fair.  Instead, Danny jumps in and announces his two fish, leaving Laura and Dan to hash it out between the two of them.  Savannah was the only one with an advantage this round, so why did Danny get to choose next?

[bravofan27]

I think Danny choose next because he wanted to beat Laura to it. No one trusts her. 

[Rai]

But why is it okay that Danny can just jump in and claim the fish he wants, but somehow it's greedy of Laura to advocate for the one she wants? I ask this rhetorically.