S23.E13: In Harm’s Way

[Xeliou66]

Here’s the thread for tonight’s episode, the season finale.

[shapeshifter]

S23.E13: In Harm’s Way
imdb.com/title/tt32096816

Quote

When a sports star is killed, Shaw and Riley suspect the shooter missed their intended target; Baxter's daughter comes forward as a witness, but her public testimony could impact his re-election campaign with the confession of a family secret.

 

[edhopper]

An interesting episode with the usual dubious judge rulings. The phone footage was enough to show Bennett was a the target. No judge would exclude the gang affiliation. And the Prosecutor would never let the defense bring up the witnesses past, they would do it first. But no judge would let an unrelated car accident be brought into the trial. 

 

Guess we won't know until next season if Goldwyn is coming back.

Edited May 17 by edhopper

[Xeliou66]

Pretty good episode - compelling story, albeit a bit different from the norm, but it worked well for the most part. Baxter got a lot of focus these last two episodes, and it’s made the legal side better actually - he has a strong presence that works well and lifts up the sometimes shaky legal writing. We’ve gotten a good feel for Baxter over the last couple of episodes and I like how he’s settled in as DA - it’s clear Price/Maroun have warmed up to him now - it was interesting that Price seemed willing to keep Baxter’s daughter off the stand so as not to drag them through the mud, given that up until tonight Baxter and Price have had several disagreements - I guess Price has come to respect Baxter more, maybe after seeing him in action in court last episode. It’s interesting that the episode ended on sort of a cliffhanger with the election results, but I’m sure Goldwyn/Baxter will be back next season, I haven’t heard anything about him leaving and I doubt they would bring him on and give him such focus if he wasn’t staying for a while, so I’m confident Baxter will prevail in the election. 
The detective stuff was great as usual, Shaw/Riley are awesome and I loved seeing them go to the forensics lab and get a lead on the murder weapon that led them to the shooter, that was classic L&O detective work and it was nice to see the lab and a forensics person again. I’ll really miss Dixon and I guess they didn’t know she was leaving when they did the episode because nothing was said about it. I really liked seeing Dixon/Riley/Shaw interact with Baxter, the more interactions between prosecutors/detectives the better, and it was interesting that Shaw/Riley were at campaign headquarters at the end along with Price/Maroun.

The flaws in the episode were some of the legal writing, particularly with the witness getting killed, why wasn’t the witness being watched by patrol at least even if he rejected protective custody? It was hard to believe someone could kill him and leave no trace, it would’ve been more realistic if they had caught the killer of the witness immediately but he refused to turn on the gang. And yeah the judge’s rulings were questionable as well about not admitting the testimony about the gang stuff, I did buy that the defense would question Baxter’s daughter about her past to impeach her and her dad’s credibility.
I think Baxter’s marriage may be over, it appeared there was some trouble there even before this case happened. 
It was interesting that the prick of a mayor that Jack clashed with in his last episode showed up for a cameo at the start, and I was fully expecting him to show up later and cause problems again. I also found it interesting that he endorsed Baxter, given that he wanted a puppet he could use as DA and Baxter is certainly not his puppet, I guess the mayor gave up on trying to control the DA’s office after Jack outmaneuvered him.

Maroun was barely in the episode once again and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’ve enjoyed the legal parts of the last 2 episodes more than I usually do and she hasn’t been in the last 2 episodes much - she just doesn’t add anything - I wish it was her leaving instead of Dixon.

The ending definitely reminded me of the season 19 finally when Jack was up for election and it was unclear what the results of the election would be when the episode ended. But like I said I’m pretty sure Baxter isn’t going anywhere.

Enjoyable season finale overall and I look forward to season 24 coming in September.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, edhopper said:

An interesting episode with the usual dubious judge rulings. The phone footage was enough to show Bennett was a the target. No judge would exclude the gang affiliation. And the Prosecutor would never let the defense bring up the witnesses past, they would do it first. But no judge would let an unrelated car accident be brought into the trial. 

I was thinking more of the DA bringing in an ambush witness when they knew since the public arraignment she was out there.

20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The ending definitely reminded me of the season 19 finally when Jack was up for election and it was unclear what the results of the election would be when the episode ended.

At the beginning with the call to Mr. Baxter's security detail I was thinking of Fontana and Green's  emergency drive to pull Jack into protection when his name was on the spree killer's hit list.

[preeya]

The main issue for the defense was they had bullets & no gun. Why did they not attempt to retrieve the weapon the perp tossed into the river? Or did I miss something?

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, preeya said:

The main issue for the defense was they had bullets & no gun. Why did they not attempt to retrieve the weapon the perp tossed into the river? Or did I miss something?

The divers had to be still checking when the trial started.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, preeya said:

The main issue for the defense was they had bullets & no gun. Why did they not attempt to retrieve the weapon the perp tossed into the river? Or did I miss something?

That was a different gun than the murder weapon - they recovered the murder weapon and sent it to the forensics lab and that’s what led Shaw/Riley to the shooter. The shooter had gotten another gun when he went to the piers, so the gun that he threw in the river wasn’t the one used in the murder.

[dubbel zout]

I thought this episode was rather anticlimactic for a season-ending cliffhanger. We don't know if Baxter gets reelected? Zzzz. And I thought the deep, dark secret of Baxter pulling strings to get his daughter a better deal was also a dud. It's not as if his daughter got off scott-free. She pled guilty and served time. (The expungement of her record is the iffiest part, IMO.) I liked what he said to the press afterward (paraphrasing): "As DA my priority is the people of Manhattan; as a a father, my priority is my family." 

Two foot chases in this episode! 

[baldryanr]

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I thought this episode was rather anticlimactic for a season-ending cliffhanger. We don't know if Baxter gets reelected? Zzzz. And I thought the deep, dark secret of Baxter pulling strings to get his daughter a better deal was also a dud. It's not as if his daughter got off scott-free. She pled guilty and served time. (The expungement of her record is the iffiest part, IMO.) I liked what he said to the press afterward (paraphrasing): "As DA my priority is the people of Manhattan; as a a father, my priority is my family." 

She got a sweetheart deal and gets to live her life while her victim suffered permanent damage.  That would piss off a lot of people who don't have the luxury of an important dad who can call in favors and bend the law.  Most people are opposed to nepotism unless they're the ones actually benefiting.

6 hours ago, preeya said:

The main issue for the defense was they had bullets & no gun. Why did they not attempt to retrieve the weapon the perp tossed into the river? Or did I miss something?

Yeah, shouldn't the gun have sunk to the bottom of the river immediately?  They know exactly where it went in.  Or if they dredge the bottom are they going to pull up hundreds of other guns?

[paigow]

54 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

Yeah, shouldn't the gun have sunk to the bottom of the river immediately? 

Unless it was swallowed by a Kraken...

NYPD Witness Protection... Dollar Bill has a mole there...

Mrs. Baxter is probably dead... 

[preeya]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

8 hours ago, preeya said:

The main issue for the defense was they had bullets & no gun. Why did they not attempt to retrieve the weapon the perp tossed into the river? Or did I miss something?

That was a different gun than the murder weapon - they recovered the murder weapon and sent it to the forensics lab and that’s what led Shaw/Riley to the shooter. The shooter had gotten another gun when he went to the piers, so the gun that he threw in the river wasn’t the one used in the murder.

Sorry about that; I guess I did miss something.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Unless it was swallowed by a Kraken...

NYPD Witness Protection... Dollar Bill has a mole there...

Mrs. Baxter is probably dead... 

The "snitch" probably concluded since he wasn't going to be sent to Albuquerque under Inspector Shannon he might as well pull off the band aid. When the two A.D.A.s kept going deeper into his crime scene I was flashing to the C.S.I. pilot with the murder of the investigator.

[paigow]

Price should have asked for that bail hearing judge to handle the trial...

[marc20]

They've really gone all out with Baxter...Schiff and McCoy barely left the office once they got the top job...I hope he settles in more with the ADA's next season after he wins the election

as somebody above said, two chases?!...is that the first time ever with multiples?...the first one was definitely a contender for lamest ever...maybe they were going for that?....if not, ouch, tough way to kill time

not disappointed with Manheim's exit, a sad comparison to van Buren and Kragen

amazing amount of change though in just the limited time back...even for L&O

[blackwing]

I didn't find out until afterwards that Camryn Manheim was leaving the show.  I wonder if she is going to another show.  She was always underused here.  If they could write episodes in which the DA has a lot more to do than the five minutes that Jack had in each episode in the past three years, then why couldn't they write stories where the Lieutenant had more to do?

I don't blame her for leaving, but she must not have decided before the episode was filmed, because her final episode doesn't say anything about her leaving.  So she went out the way she has been the past three seasons, woefully underused.

No doubt there will be a throwaway line in next season's premiere stating where she went.  And since the two detectives are men, they'll surely replace her with another older woman.  I hope they use her better.  I know a paycheck is a paycheck, but still, five minutes max of screen time per episode isn't particularly fulfilling.

As to the case, how come they didn't introduce the video of the shooting at trial?  I know the guy who took the footage didn't see the shooter clearly.  But why didn't they put a forensics expert on the stand to testify that analysis shows the bullet trajectory was meant for Baxter?

I kept waiting for news throughout the whole episode that either the wife or the daughter had been killed.  I know that Baxter has a security detail, and he said they would hire private security for the daughter and the son, but why wasn't the security detail with all of them at all times?  At the campaign headquarters, I imagine credentials would have been checked for guests but I was waiting for one of the caterers to be one of the gang members looking for revenge.  After having been shot at at the library and almost shot at the pier, I would have thought Baxter would have a bodyguard within 10 feet of him at all times.

I doubt he loses the election.  They wouldn't bring Tony Goldwyn in just for half a season.  And the show won't replace both the Lieutenant and the DA at the same time.  I wish Maroun was leaving.  I was happy to see she had almost nothing to do in this episode.

I would assume that Baxter's wife left him.  She didn't want him to take the DA job in the first place.  She was pissed about the decision to have the daughter testify and the information about her past getting revealed.  But I'm wondering why it wouldn't have been known already?  So the first time anyone heard of this was because the defence counsel did some digging?  Has nobody dug for dirt on Baxter before?  I would have thought that during the campaign, someone for the opponent would have been assigned to dig up any kind of dirt on him or his family.  This info seemed to be publicly available since the defence attorney easily found it.

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was a different gun than the murder weapon - they recovered the murder weapon and sent it to the forensics lab and that’s what led Shaw/Riley to the shooter. The shooter had gotten another gun when he went to the piers, so the gun that he threw in the river wasn’t the one used in the murder.

I completely missed this as well and I was wondering why they weren't dragging the river looking for the gun.  Now I recall that they found a gun in a storm drain.  So why was there so much effort to tie the bullets in the apartment with the girlfriend to the shooter if they already had the murder weapon?  Were the bullets for the gun used in the murder or were they bullets for the "community gun"?

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

So why was there so much effort to tie the bullets in the apartment with the girlfriend to the shooter if they already had the murder weapon?  Were the bullets for the gun used in the murder or were they bullets for the "community gun"?

The bullets proved that the community gun was the murder gun.

[blackwing]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The bullets proved that the community gun was the murder gun.

So the gun pulled from the drain was the community/murder gun that belonged to Eddie Aguilar who had said that his gun was a community gun?  He was going to testify that he loaned the gun to defendant.  Then he was killed.

So they had the gun.  They had the bullets which belonged to the gun which were the same type used in the murder.  Why coudn't Price have put Shaw or Riley on the stand to testify that Aguilar said he gave the gun to defendant?  I'm pretty sure there's some kind of hearsay exception for an unavailable (dead) witness.  I would hope that if this were a case in real life that had a lot more time than 42 minutes that the police would have gotten surveillance video from Aguilar's apartment building and connected his killer to the gang.  Seems sloppy that all of them were just like "oh well, Eddie's dead, too bad".

Defendant was wearing the exact same coat as the shooter in the library murder.  Why didn't the police test the coat for gunshot residue?

[gesundheit]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Pretty good episode - compelling story, albeit a bit different from the norm, but it worked well for the most part. Baxter got a lot of focus these last two episodes, and it’s made the legal side better actually - he has a strong presence that works well and lifts up the sometimes shaky legal writing.

Absolutely. Honestly it's a little silly that the DA is so involved in everything, but it's made the prosecution half of the show a million times better to watch (still don't like Price/Maroun together or separately, but a lighter dosage is an improvement).

I was very skeptical about Tony Goldwyn coming on board, simply because I have a visceral ick response to him since Scandal, but he has won me over. And I also have a lot more hope for this revival's longevity.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I didn't find out until afterwards that Camryn Manheim was leaving the show.  I wonder if she is going to another show.  She was always underused here.  If they could write episodes in which the DA has a lot more to do than the five minutes that Jack had in each episode in the past three years, then why couldn't they write stories where the Lieutenant had more to do?

I don't blame her for leaving, but she must not have decided before the episode was filmed, because her final episode doesn't say anything about her leaving.  So she went out the way she has been the past three seasons, woefully underused.

No doubt there will be a throwaway line in next season's premiere stating where she went.  And since the two detectives are men, they'll surely replace her with another older woman.  I hope they use her better.  I know a paycheck is a paycheck, but still, five minutes max of screen time per episode isn't particularly fulfilling.

 

I wonder if she will be back for an episode that actually writes her off.

I hope they take this opportunity to promote Connie Shi to series regular. Cast a lesser-known, lower-fee actor for the Lieutenant and let Yee shine!

 

Baxter's wife didn't exactly prove herself to be that much of a protective mother given that she dramatically stormed out while her vulnerable daughter was going through it on the stand. So supportive! Definitely putting her daughter first! (Also I guess the daughter's not going to pass the bar now?)

[Madding crowd]

I thought it was an odd choice to have the victim be a sports star with a dark beard dating a pop star. Obviously they were going for a Travis Kelci thing but made him a baseball player instead. Still, having the person shot in the head was kind of in poor taste especially since the target was Baxter and it could have been anyone who was shot.

I guess I’m a bit tired of judges disallowing everything and leaving the DA’s office scrambling to find something. Law and Order sticks to their formula though. Sorry to be losing Dixon and hope she can find a show where she is utilized more.

[blackwing]

The character of Carrie Baxter was played by Tony Goldwyn's real life daughter Tess.  She's apparently an actress but has almost zero credits to her name.  I wonder if she will have more guest appearances next season.

40 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I wonder if she will be back for an episode that actually writes her off.

I hope they take this opportunity to promote Connie Shi to series regular. Cast a lesser-known, lower-fee actor for the Lieutenant and let Yee shine!

 

Baxter's wife didn't exactly prove herself to be that much of a protective mother given that she dramatically stormed out while her vulnerable daughter was going through it on the stand. So supportive! Definitely putting her daughter first! (Also I guess the daughter's not going to pass the bar now?)

It would be nice if Manheim got a proper goodbye in next season's premiere.  But given the way they treated the exits of Anthony Anderson and Jeffrey Donovan and the fact that they already announced she has left the show, I'm assuming not.

I agree that Connie Shi should be promoted to series regular.  I know it's always been the L&O formula to have senior detective, junior detective, lieutenant, executive ADA, junior ADA, DA as the six regular cast members.  But why?  Can't we have three detectives?  Yee's role seems to be that of computer jockey who reviews surveillance footage, but I'd like to see her in the field.  The lieutenant character can be in the "also starring" billing that Connie Shi gets right now.

I still am puzzled by how Baxter and Carrie acted like her drunk driving manslaughter incident was a big secret that was only going to be discovered if she testified.  I still think that the campaign manager or supporters of Baxter's opponent would have dug this dirt up ages ago.  I also wonder how this escaped the notice of Columbia Law School, you would think they would ask on the application about any convictions.  Baxter got the charges reduced but they still would have been on her record.

And yes, there's no way she ever gets her law license now, she shouldn't be able to pass the character and fitness test.

37 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought it was an odd choice to have the victim be a sports star with a dark beard dating a pop star. Obviously they were going for a Travis Kelci thing but made him a baseball player instead. Still, having the person shot in the head was kind of in poor taste especially since the target was Baxter and it could have been anyone who was shot.

I didn't understand the point of having this Taylor Swift / Travis Kelce-like couple on the show at all.  Considering that the episode didn't involve these characters.  Sure, there was speculation that a fan tried to kill Matt out of jealousy, but it wasn't needed.  It could just as well have been a random stranger or some other notable guest at that event (president of XYZ company that is doing controverial environmental damage or something like that) that was accidentally killed.  The police very quickly determined that the target was Baxter and not the baseball player.  And then the stardom of the singer and the baseball player really didn't figure into the story at all, so I'm wondering why the show bothered in the first place instead of just using a random victim.

[dubbel zout]

37 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Baxter got the charges reduced but they still would have been on her record.

No, the record was expunged as part of the plea deal.

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree that Connie Shi should be promoted to series regular.…Yee's role seems to be that of computer jockey who reviews surveillance footage, but I'd like to see her in the field.…

With the expanded importance of computer technology in crime solving (like AI), it makes sense for Yee to have a bigger role. But how can it be done in a way that is interesting to viewers? 

 

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

…And yes, there's no way she ever gets her law license now, she shouldn't be able to pass the character and fitness test.

34 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

the record was expunged as part of the plea deal.

But it's un-expunged now, right? That could cause Baxter's wife to need to have some space for a while. 

 

[Raja]

38 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

With the expanded importance of computer technology in crime solving (like AI), it makes sense for Yee to have a bigger role. But how can it be done in a way that is interesting to viewers? 

 

But it's un-expunged now, right? That could cause Baxter's wife to need to have some space for a while. 

 

No a simple search by law enforcement agencies would show nothing. P.I. agencies and data brokers are a different case.

While I caught the expunged record did she plead out as a juvenile or an adult?

At the moment the in office detective does have a more consistent reoccurring role than the medical examiners and psychologist of the past put together. They come off like a cheap production,  in that I think they would let her go rather than advance her to a regular role.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I also wonder how this escaped the notice of Columbia Law School, you would think they would ask on the application about any convictions.

She can always go to Hudson University if Columbia boots her... 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But it's un-expunged now, right?

Legally, no. I don't know what the RL ramifications are for something like this.

[Diana Berry]

On 5/16/2024 at 9:05 PM, edhopper said:

An interesting episode with the usual dubious judge rulings. The phone footage was enough to show Bennett was a the target. No judge would exclude the gang affiliation. And the Prosecutor would never let the defense bring up the witnesses past, they would do it first. But no judge would let an unrelated car accident be brought into the trial. 

 

Guess we won't know until next season if Goldwyn is coming back.

For giggles does anyone know what actor was playing Baxter’s opponent ( they showed his picture ) at the headquarters when all the tv reporters were asking questions?

[paigow]

12 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Baxter's wife didn't exactly prove herself to be that much of a protective mother given that she dramatically stormed out while her vulnerable daughter was going through it on the stand.

Junior is in Chicago... so she might be headed there...followed by some Cobra 10 minions...

13 hours ago, blackwing said:

I doubt he loses the election.  They wouldn't bring Tony Goldwyn in just for half a season.

He will lose but claim election rigging... Then get spun off to Law & Order: SIU Special Insurrection Unit

[oftentimes]

14 hours ago, blackwing said:

The character of Carrie Baxter was played by Tony Goldwyn's real life daughter Tess.  She's apparently an actress but has almost zero credits to her name.  I wonder if she will have more guest appearances next season.

So, there's double nepotism; fiction and real life!

[paigow]

3 hours ago, oftentimes said:

So, there's double nepotism; fiction and real life!

Just like Jack McCoy

[wknt3]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:13 AM, baldryanr said:

Yeah, shouldn't the gun have sunk to the bottom of the river immediately?  They know exactly where it went in.  Or if they dredge the bottom are they going to pull up hundreds of other guns?

Well, the divers say there's a shallow shelf that drops off. Runs 20 feet out. Pretty deep after that. Maybe he didn't throw like a girl? Or maybe the new guys don't want to be stuck with a decades old cold case?
 

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree that Connie Shi should be promoted to series regular.  I know it's always been the L&O formula to have senior detective, junior detective, lieutenant, executive ADA, junior ADA, DA as the six regular cast members.  But why?  Can't we have three detectives?  Yee's role seems to be that of computer jockey who reviews surveillance footage, but I'd like to see her in the field.

 

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

With the expanded importance of computer technology in crime solving (like AI), it makes sense for Yee to have a bigger role. But how can it be done in a way that is interesting to viewers?

I doubt it's going to happen. We should just be happy they have decided to folow the mothership casting talented actors in the "recurring third detective who delivers exposition and joins in on stakeouts" role following in the tradition of Profaci, LaMotte, and Cordova. 

[mythoughtis]

22 hours ago, shapeshifter said:? 

 

But it's un-expunged now, right? That could cause Baxter's wife to need to have some space for a while. 

 

No.  Expungement is a legal term and process.  The conviction got erased from the legal records.  It won’t get put back in just because it became public knowledge.  I also doubt Columbia or the bar could legally consider it in their reviews.  They could try doing so just as part of an internet search- but would probably get a discrimination lawsuit.  Future employers? They could do the internet search and decline to make her an offer. 

IRL- aren’t there lawyers who have DUIs in their past? 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

 

IRL- aren’t there lawyers who have DUIs in their past? 

Did I just add manslaughter to the case to make the mother and wife look better since she didn't want their daughter to help put away the killer who targeted husband and father?

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Did I just add manslaughter to the case to make the mother and wife look better since she didn't want their daughter to help put away the killer who targeted husband and father?

I don’t follow your post. There was no manslaughter - no one died in the drunk driving crash caused by Baxter’s daughter - a pedestrian was injured but survived. 
I had mixed feelings about the situation with Baxter’s daughter - it’s hard to fault Baxter for doing everything he could to help his daughter, any parent would, but it is a valid point that if the daughter hadn’t come from privilege she might’ve faced a more severe punishment. Regardless the daughter did the right thing by testifying and Baxter did the right thing by encouraging her to take the stand, and it showed that Baxter cared more about his duties as DA than about his image as an incident like that would hurt his campaign. 
The most interesting thing about the situation was Price’s reaction IMO - I was surprised when Price told Baxter he could keep her off the stand and tried convincing him he could win without her, I expected Price to get pissed at Baxter for not telling him sooner and have a heated confrontation with him, so it was interesting that Price went the opposite way - I guess Price has come to respect Baxter more than he did at the start. I look forward to seeing how Baxter’s relationship with everyone else continues to evolve, but Price, Maroun, Shaw and Riley all being at his campaign headquarters on election night showed that they’ve come to respect him.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

- no one died in the drunk driving crash caused by Baxter’s daughter - a pedestrian was injured but survived. 
I had mixed feelings about the situation with Baxter’s daughter - it’s hard to fault Baxter for doing everything he could to help his daughter, any parent would, but it is a valid point that if the daughter hadn’t come from privilege she might’ve faced a more severe punishment.

Couldn't the victim of the drunk driving accident file a civil suit to get financial restitution for the loss of the use of an arm? 

Or is that not feasible for the average victim who dials the phone number on their TV for: "Hurt in a car? Call William Mattar"?
 

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Couldn't the victim of the drunk driving accident file a civil suit to get financial restitution for the loss of the use of an arm? 

Or is that not feasible for the average victim who dials the phone number on their TV for: "Hurt in a car? Call William Mattar"?
 

Yeah I guess the victim of the accident could’ve sued Baxter’s daughter - who knows, they might have - I figure the Baxter family probably reached a settlement with the injured party. 

[paigow]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Or is that not feasible for the average victim who dials the phone number on their TV for: "Hurt in a car? Call William Mattar"?

William Mattar: Sorry... when the defendant is US Attorney pedigree, that is a lost cause...

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

No.  Expungement is a legal term and process.  The conviction got erased from the legal records.  It won’t get put back in just because it became public knowledge.  I also doubt Columbia or the bar could legally consider it in their reviews.  They could try doing so just as part of an internet search- but would probably get a discrimination lawsuit.  Future employers? They could do the internet search and decline to make her an offer. 

IRL- aren’t there lawyers who have DUIs in their past? 

I don't know if it's true or not but I think I read somewhere that the bar, in some states, could technically contact people an applicant didn't even submit as a reference.  I don't know if they would but technically could--just like any employer could. 

But removing someone from the bar seems to take quite a bit. 

But the whole thing was as ridiculous as last week's witness used to implicate another witness.  This was even worse because being guilty of a DUI isn't the same kind of moral failing as committing perjury.

[paigow]

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I doubt it's going to happen. We should just be happy they have decided to folow the mothership casting talented actors in the "recurring third detective who delivers exposition and joins in on stakeouts" role following in the tradition of Profaci, LaMotte, and Cordova. 

Hopefully she would not end up as NYPD Blue Detective with nothing to do except babysit suspects while Kelly & Sipowicz meet with Lt. Fancy

[Notwisconsin]

Ooooooo! They're ending the season with a cliffhanger. I hope they have a new DA.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The second suspect said Baxter doesn't make deals. But the previous episode was about an old deal Baxter made which became a current problem. Huh? Nevermind

A community gun. Is that really a thing?

I don't know about Baxter offering up himself and his daughter at what sounded like serious peril to both of their reputations and livelihoods. What if the prosecution had lost the case?

The jury foreman was so dramatic when he read the verdict. He almost acted like he was surprised.

On 5/17/2024 at 5:11 AM, paigow said:

NYPD Witness Protection... Dollar Bill has a mole there...

Heh, I got that reference. I wish Billions would be rebooted too.

Edited May 20 by Joimiaroxeu

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

A community gun. Is that really a thing?

For a long time. Passing guns off to young shooters who would get juvenile rather than adult convictions. The out of town hitman who would travel and rent at the target location. etc.

One of the famous scenes from The Wire when testifying Omar had contempt for Bird because he held on to  favorite gun rather than turn it over or dispose of it entirely. I think it was Organized Crime where the undercovers going to the underground  gun rental business was part of the plot.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

The second suspect said Baxter doesn't make deals. But the previous episode was about an old deal Baxter made which became a current problem. Huh?

The last episode was about Price making a deal, which is why Baxter took over.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Heh, I got that reference.

 

[tvfanatic13]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:50 AM, marc20 said:

They've really gone all out with Baxter...Schiff and McCoy barely left the office once they got the top job...I hope he settles in more with the ADA's next season after he wins the election

as somebody above said, two chases?!...is that the first time ever with multiples?...the first one was definitely a contender for lamest ever...maybe they were going for that?....if not, ouch, tough way to kill time

not disappointed with Manheim's exit, a sad comparison to van Buren and Kragen

amazing amount of change though in just the limited time back...even for L&O

 

On 5/17/2024 at 1:38 PM, blackwing said:

The character of Carrie Baxter was played by Tony Goldwyn's real life daughter Tess.  She's apparently an actress but has almost zero credits to her name.  I wonder if she will have more guest appearances next season.

It would be nice if Manheim got a proper goodbye in next season's premiere.  But given the way they treated the exits of Anthony Anderson and Jeffrey Donovan and the fact that they already announced she has left the show, I'm assuming not.

I agree that Connie Shi should be promoted to series regular.  I know it's always been the L&O formula to have senior detective, junior detective, lieutenant, executive ADA, junior ADA, DA as the six regular cast members.  But why?  Can't we have three detectives?  Yee's role seems to be that of computer jockey who reviews surveillance footage, but I'd like to see her in the field.  The lieutenant character can be in the "also starring" billing that Connie Shi gets right now.

I still am puzzled by how Baxter and Carrie acted like her drunk driving manslaughter incident was a big secret that was only going to be discovered if she testified.  I still think that the campaign manager or supporters of Baxter's opponent would have dug this dirt up ages ago.  I also wonder how this escaped the notice of Columbia Law School, you would think they would ask on the application about any convictions.  Baxter got the charges reduced but they still would have been on her record.

And yes, there's no way she ever gets her law license now, she shouldn't be able to pass the character and fitness test.

I didn't understand the point of having this Taylor Swift / Travis Kelce-like couple on the show at all.  Considering that the episode didn't involve these characters.  Sure, there was speculation that a fan tried to kill Matt out of jealousy, but it wasn't needed.  It could just as well have been a random stranger or some other notable guest at that event (president of XYZ company that is doing controverial environmental damage or something like that) that was accidentally killed.  The police very quickly determined that the target was Baxter and not the baseball player.  And then the stardom of the singer and the baseball player really didn't figure into the story at all, so I'm wondering why the show bothered in the first place instead of just using a random victim.

 

On 5/18/2024 at 1:35 PM, mythoughtis said:

No.  Expungement is a legal term and process.  The conviction got erased from the legal records.  It won’t get put back in just because it became public knowledge.  I also doubt Columbia or the bar could legally consider it in their reviews.  They could try doing so just as part of an internet search- but would probably get a discrimination lawsuit.  Future employers? They could do the internet search and decline to make her an offer. 

IRL- aren’t there lawyers who have DUIs in their past? 

Did I miss the Manheim goodbye?? 

I used to mentor formerly incarcerated law students. They do exist and they can now take the bar and get admitted (even with crimes much worse than DUI-not minimizing DUI at all!!!)  It is tough to get hired, but one of my mentees got a job with Legal Aid Society. It can be done. 

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Did I miss the Manheim goodbye?? 

No it was announced in the press, the episode played like most Law & Order episodes.  With police and DA changes and we might get an explanation for a new L.T. in the première of the next season.

[marc20]

saw Tony Goldwyn on Kimmel last night promoting a new movie he directed, no L & O talk

didn't know he's the grandson of the MGM founder...said his father kept him away from being heavily involved in the business, but he ended up there anyway

[marc20]

As to the case, how come they didn't introduce the video of the shooting at trial?  I know the guy who took the footage didn't see the shooter clearly.  But why didn't they put a forensics expert on the stand to testify that analysis shows the bullet trajectory was meant for Baxter?

 

what about last week as well?....the food delivery guy got a good look at the shooter, he never showed up at the trial...some of these things seem so simple

On 5/17/2024 at 11:20 AM, blackwing said:

I didn't find out until afterwards that Camryn Manheim was leaving the show.  I wonder if she is going to another show.  She was always underused here.  If they could write episodes in which the DA has a lot more to do than the five minutes that Jack had in each episode in the past three years, then why couldn't they write stories where the Lieutenant had more to do?

I don't blame her for leaving, but she must not have decided before the episode was filmed, because her final episode doesn't say anything about her leaving.  So she went out the way she has been the past three seasons, woefully underused.

No doubt there will be a throwaway line in next season's premiere stating where she went.  And since the two detectives are men, they'll surely replace her with another older woman.  I hope they use her better.  I know a paycheck is a paycheck, but still, five minutes max of screen time per episode isn't particularly fulfilling.

As to the case, how come they didn't introduce the video of the shooting at trial?  I know the guy who took the footage didn't see the shooter clearly.  But why didn't they put a forensics expert on the stand to testify that analysis shows the bullet trajectory was meant for Baxter?

I kept waiting for news throughout the whole episode that either the wife or the daughter had been killed.  I know that Baxter has a security detail, and he said they would hire private security for the daughter and the son, but why wasn't the security detail with all of them at all times?  At the campaign headquarters, I imagine credentials would have been checked for guests but I was waiting for one of the caterers to be one of the gang members looking for revenge.  After having been shot at at the library and almost shot at the pier, I would have thought Baxter would have a bodyguard within 10 feet of him at all times.

I doubt he loses the election.  They wouldn't bring Tony Goldwyn in just for half a season.  And the show won't replace both the Lieutenant and the DA at the same time.  I wish Maroun was leaving.  I was happy to see she had almost nothing to do in this episode.

I would assume that Baxter's wife left him.  She didn't want him to take the DA job in the first place.  She was pissed about the decision to have the daughter testify and the information about her past getting revealed.  But I'm wondering why it wouldn't have been known already?  So the first time anyone heard of this was because the defence counsel did some digging?  Has nobody dug for dirt on Baxter before?  I would have thought that during the campaign, someone for the opponent would have been assigned to dig up any kind of dirt on him or his family.  This info seemed to be publicly available since the defence attorney easily found it.

I completely missed this as well and I was wondering why they weren't dragging the river looking for the gun.  Now I recall that they found a gun in a storm drain.  So why was there so much effort to tie the bullets in the apartment with the girlfriend to the shooter if they already had the murder weapon?  Were the bullets for the gun used in the murder or were they bullets for the "community gun"?

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, marc20 said:

As to the case, how come they didn't introduce the video of the shooting at trial?  I know the guy who took the footage didn't see the shooter clearly.  But why didn't they put a forensics expert on the stand to testify that analysis shows the bullet trajectory was meant for Baxter?

Because the writers delight in getting us riled up?
j/k

[paigow]

On 5/20/2024 at 1:38 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

It is tough to get hired, but one of my mentees got a job with Legal Aid Society. It can be done. 

Plan B for Price and Maroun...