S05.E08: Labyrinths

[paulvdb]

Quote

When Captain Burnham is trapped within a "mindscape" designed to test her worthiness to retrieve the Progenitor’s powerful technology, Book, Rayner, and the crew of the U.S.S. Discovery must hold off the Breen long enough for her to escape.

Premiere date: May 16, 2024

[MissLucas]

I'll be impressed if they include a reference to 'Alice in Wonderland' as a callback to the first season (episode 3 to be exact).

[AnimeMania]

[Chicago Redshirt]

I just need to vent a little bit...

I think it's dumb enough that the Breen are able to trace Discovery's "jump signature." There should be no basis for them to know how to do so, as I understand how a spore drive works (which admittedly is not much). The spore drive is still a unique technology for reasons, and we have had no indication that it leaves a trace.

But sure, it's sci-fi, and the Breen have a Scotty equivalent who figured it out on the fly with little to no previous exposure to a spore drive. What gets me is that the Discovery crew fully expects the Breen are going to be able to find them somehow. 

I would have more easily bought that the Breen had left a tracking device onboard during their visit, or the timebug had some residue that could be traced, or Moll was thinking ahead in her brief escape last episode and planted something, or any number of excuses why the Breen could find them other than "we need them to or else the plot doesn't work."

I get that Space Librarian is originally overconfident that they can negotiate with the Breen. But when it's clear that the Breen are hostile, why did they not engage in seeking backup? Surely there are some powers that would get the one Breen ship to stand down.

The test was again pathetic. Admitting that you have fears and guilt and so forth is not a basis for putting galaxy-shaking power in someone's hands. Because it doesn't change that with even with the purest intentions and the best heart and mind, someone can come along and steal that power. Nor does it change that the vulnerabilities won't cause the person to be exploited or do stupid things with the power. Nor does it foreclose the possibility that getting the power might make the person super-arrogant and have them forget their fears.

Michael could have just said "OK, we have the clue. We'll jump away five gazillion times and mask our spore drive signature, and if Ruhn destroys the library out of frustration, he'll make himself and the Breen into galactic pariahs." Or she could have built into the oath she made Ruhn swear safe passage for Discovery too. Or she could have given Ruhn some authentic parts of the clues but held back part of it. Or she could have reprogrammed the map to send the Breen on a wild goose chase.

There is no good reason that I can see for her to give the actual completed set of clues with the actual coordinates to Ruhn. Especially when she has literally seen a future where the Breen have gotten the Progenitors' tech and used it to lay waste to the Federation. She should have at least some concern that giving in to Ruhn would lead to that future.

Rayner needed to be more of the contrarian asshole that he has been and point that out. I fear that he's going to get got in the next episode or so.

 

[marinw]

What happened to Detmere?

[AnimeMania]

38 minutes ago, marinw said:

What happened to Detmere?

Detmere was supposed to drive the spaceship from the mirror universe to the museum.  Oops, I might be wrong, since I haven't this episode yet. That is what happened to her last episode, why she wasn't there.

Edited May 17 by AnimeMania

[marinw]

I hate mindscapes.

Chief Librarian looked Klingon or Klingonish.

[DrBriCa]

30 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

1 hour ago, marinw said:

What happened to Detmer?

Detmer was supposed to drive the spaceship from the mirror universe to the museum.  Oops, I might be wrong, since I haven't this episode yet. That is what happened to her last episode, why she wasn't there.

I believe both actresses had other filming obligations while they were doing the middle of the season, hence their replacements on the bridge while their characters fly the ISS Enterprise back to the Federation. I think they'll be in the finale, however. Same goes for Doug Jones/Saru re: other film opportunities.

12 minutes ago, marinw said:

Chief Librarian looked Klingon or Klingonish.

She is a female Efrosian. According to Memory Alpha, the last one we saw was the Federation President in movies IV & VI. (A couple members of the species were part of the main crew on the Titan novels as well.) 

 

I feel like nothing shows that the writers have no clue what to do with Adira than having literally half of their lines be said by Stamets at the same time. (I enjoyed the humor of the scene and I love Reno, but I still wish the writers had given Adira more to do over the series and utilized their joined status more.) 

[MissLucas]

Oh show, I wish you were as clever as you're pretty.

The mindscape test was some light therapy and Moll pulled a Daenerys.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Huh. I didn't see Moll overthrowing Uncle Primarch on my Discovery Bingo card...

Then again, this particular Primarch wasn't too bright anyway, with his putting an Erigah on his nephew for having a human girlfriend. I guess seeing him break sacred oaths for funsies turned the rest of his crew all the way off.

I wonder how hard it was for David Ajala to not break character as Michael's mindscape guide. I know there are bloopers!

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There is no good reason that I can see for her to give the actual completed set of clues with the actual coordinates to Ruhn. Especially when she has literally seen a future where the Breen have gotten the Progenitors' tech and used it to lay waste to the Federation. She should have at least some concern that giving in to Ruhn would lead to that future.

 

Well, the Breen may have the clues and location, but Michael has the relevant information to go with the location. Now that Uncle Primarch is no more, Moll is only interested in getting L'ak back, so Discovery has a bit of an advantage once they put themselves back together.

Rhys commanding the Discovery is hot.

[millennium]

Well, at least I got a laugh from that final scene of Shirley Temple leading the off-brand Cylons in a "Long will he reign!" chant.

What are the odds that of all the worlds in all of the galaxy, the Archive would have an artifact that requires bringing the Captain's boyfriend into the main action?   What an incredible coincidence!  🙄

Maybe next episode a wounded Book will have to leave Sickbay to join Michael on an away mission because they'll discover that the Progenitors all had British accents and the Power can be accessed only by someone who has a British accent!    It's tragic that the rest of the cast gets short shrift for the sake of showcasing this useless character.

Why must every episode devolve into pop psychology?   Oooh, I'm afraid of failing!  I'm afraid people will see!   TOS gave us The Immunity Syndrome.   Discovery, impostor syndrome.

(and did the Booker avatar really say "the great Michael Burnham?" -- ugh.)

 

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, the Breen; especially the Primarch; seem to be pretty dumb and easy to control for a group that is suppose to be the final big threat of the entire series.  I figured Moll was going to worm her way through things, but the fact that she's already in charge is just fucking hilarious.  She didn't even have to play checkers here: this was almost a "Simon Says" approach to things and it worked with ease.  Frankly, I wonder why she and L'lok were even that worried over being hunted, because I really don't see these fools ever catching up to them.

So, the gang make it to the library for the final clue, but in unsurprising news, Michael has to do some kind of mind test before she can get it.  The test initially starts with her and a program dressed as Book (David Ajala was at least having fun playing a slightly more easygoing character) trying to get their way through a library maze, but naturally the real test is Michael having to be open about who she "truly is" and prove to be worthy of the answer.  Yawn!  Nothing new here, but at least they finally got the damn clue.  Even if they had to also give it to the Breen in order to save the library.

I did like the actress playing the Space Librarian.

Rhys was actually pretty good in the captain's chair.  He might have a future in that department!

I continue to really want to a series about Reno and her insane adventures before she got sucked into the world of Starfleet!

Two episodes left and my main interest is wondering if we're actually ever going to see Saru again.

[marinw]

12 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Detmere was supposed to drive the spaceship from the mirror universe to the museum. 

Shows you how much I'm paying attention! LOL

[millennium]

22 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Detmere was supposed to drive the spaceship from the mirror universe to the museum. 

I would greatly prefer an episode built around the title "A Funny Thing Happened On the Way to the Space Museum" than anything featuring Burnham and Book.

[Stardancer Supreme]

The one thing I forgot: Book got a wonderful gift from the Librarian and maybe that will make him pause about this Moll fixation. If she is unable to resurrect L'ak, the Breen may still kill her. He now has the possibility to recreate a fixture of his homeworld somewhere else.

[marinw]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:22 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Book got a wonderful gift from the Librarian

That librarian is a great character. A tribute to librarians everywhere. I hope we see more of her.

Edited May 21 by marinw

[cdnalor]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:31 AM, millennium said:

(and did the Booker avatar really say "the great Michael Burnham?" -- ugh.)

Well, it is all happening in her own mind, so...

[Chit Chat]

This is the song that goes through my head whenever I watch this show: Feelings.

On 5/17/2024 at 2:11 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I figured Moll was going to worm her way through things, but the fact that she's already in charge is just fucking hilarious. 

That was a big stretch.  😜

[MissLucas]

Y'all underestimate the power of pouting and marble-mouthing!

[Jodithgrace]

Among the more absurd parts of this episode; Burnham with that bucket of sand in a huge maze, pouring it out like nobody’s business. I guess that since it was mind sand, the bucket was not going to empty, but really…how much sand do you need to see where you’ve been? 
Not to be species-ist or anything, but the Breen all look alike. How does Moll even know who she’s talking to? Sure, the head guy was easy to pick out because he was so noisy and obnoxious, but who was the one who accepted her leadership as the wife of the scion ( a word I rapidly tired of) Since when are the Breen feminists? Are there even any female Breen..if so how can you tell? Their glow sticks are fun, though. 

[Chit Chat]

39 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

Among the more absurd parts of this episode; Burnham with that bucket of sand in a huge maze, pouring it out like nobody’s business.

I was yelling at the TV "you're going to run out of sand!"  Drop it like breadcrumbs.  A little here and there!!  You're right though, it probably magically refilled itself.  

40 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

Since when are the Breen feminists?

The leader was Darth Vader type of evil.  There's no way that he wouldn't have dropped her where she was standing after she mouthed off the first time, but of course that's not going to happen with this show.  🙄

[MissLucas]

12 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Since when are the Breen feminists? Are there even any female Breen..if so how can you tell? Their glow sticks are fun, though. 

Since the Primarch referred to Moll as the Scion's Joined and her power, I guess we can deduce that there are female Breen and that some sort of marriage-like ritual is known to the Breen.

Why a species so hell-bent on protocol and its own superiority would accept what sounds like a mere handfasting with a member of another - supposedly inferior - race, is beyond me. The only reason I would have  bought that plot-line was Moll being pregnant and therefore ensuring the survival of the bloodline, somewhat tainted but what can you do if you're so hellbent on such things and there are no alternatives (cloning anyone?) 🤷‍♀️

Instead we're stuck with this weird zombie plot. The Breen just going with it is ridiculous. They did not even address the issue if it would be a good idea to preserve the Scion's body (maybe they did but it wasn't mentioned and that bugs me more than it should).

[paigow]

Book is bleeding out... Culber should have shoved that root into the wound

[paigow]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:31 AM, millennium said:

they'll discover that the Progenitors all had British accents and the Power can be accessed only by someone who has a British accent!

Because the safest place for Star Trek items is a LucasVerse Death Star

[paigow]

Breen armour circa DS9 resembled Master Chief Halo ... 1000 years later it looks like Venom  with LED accents

Edited May 20 by paigow

[paigow]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The only reason I would have  bought that plot-line was Moll being pregnant and therefore ensuring the survival of the bloodline, somewhat tainted but what can you do if you're so hellbent on such things and there are no alternatives (cloning anyone?) 🤷‍♀️

The Breen have not found the Palpatine diary in that big-ass library

[paigow]

On 5/15/2024 at 12:58 PM, MissLucas said:

I'll be impressed if they include a reference to 'Alice in Wonderland' as a callback to the first season (episode 3 to be exact).

had given Burnham a flute as the final key... since they just cut and pasted TNG: Inner Light with a side of Riker in Frame Of Mind

[paigow]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:02 PM, Jodithgrace said:

Since when are the Breen feminists? Are there even any female Breen..if so how can you tell? 

There must be a Breen version of the Duras Sisters who wear non-traditional uniforms...

[Affogato]

I liked the bucket of sand, it emphasized the dreamlike quality of the story. Also, everyone knows that if you only drop a few breadcrumbs the wildlife will eat them and you will be lost. 

Seriously, though, I like that they are continuing to take Michael to her goal, and concentrating on her story, It is clear they have had to cut threads short. I look forward to where everyone will end up at the end. It is to the writer’s credit that I can imagine a number of ways things will go for the characters.  I do think Tilly may end up as a captain of an academy training ship, since she wanted to at the beginning—or perhaps a number one, preparing to be captain? 

Moll and the Breen are both getting way too much time, but I think we will know why fairly soon. I wouldn’t complain about their part of the story until it is over, I can think of a few satisfying outcomes. 

I wonder if Michael has figured out something about the McGuffin that we haven’t figured out.

[tennisgurl]

I would have loved to just have an episode in a giant library planet, that sounds like way more fun than another "AI helps main character solve a puzzle and learn about themselves to get another McGuffin" story. It was an alright episode, but with so few episodes left I would have liked more punch. 

I guess Moll would look pretty good next to the previous Breen leader, he's clearly a total moron. Why does he want to destroy the library and blow up Discovery, even though it will make the entire galaxy, including their own people, will be after them? Because he's a dick, of course! 

I really liked the librarian, she was so sweet and helpful but also had that "your books are overdue" voice of doom when the Breen tried to start shit. Like any true librarian!

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I would have loved to just have an episode in a giant library planet, that sounds like way more fun than another "AI helps main character solve a puzzle and learn about themselves to get another McGuffin" story. It was an alright episode, but with so few episodes left I would have liked more punch. 

I guess Moll would look pretty good next to the previous Breen leader, he's clearly a total moron. Why does he want to destroy the library and blow up Discovery, even though it will make the entire galaxy, including their own people, will be after them? Because he's a dick, of course! 

I really liked the librarian, she was so sweet and helpful but also had that "your books are overdue" voice of doom when the Breen tried to start shit. Like any true librarian!

The Breen have serious impulse control problems. 
 

the library could become a fixture of the Academy series, given a chance. 
 

i think the show Andromeda’ hd an interesting library world. 

[catsitter]

On 5/21/2024 at 1:37 AM, Affogato said:

The Breen have serious impulse control problems. 
 

the library could become a fixture of the Academy series, given a chance. 
 

i think the show Andromeda’ hd an interesting library world. 

There is a lot in this season of Discovery that reminds me of Andromeda, especially of its final season (which is not a good sign!) Such as that space map thing.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, catsitter said:

There is a lot in this season of Discovery that reminds me of Andromeda, especially of its final season (which is not a good sign!) Such as that space map thing.

That is a good point. 

[sugarbaker design]

I loved Book as a space-age Andre Leon Talley.

[millennium]

On 5/22/2024 at 6:33 PM, catsitter said:

There is a lot in this season of Discovery that reminds me of Andromeda, especially of its final season (which is not a good sign!) Such as that space map thing.

Andromeda, lol.   It makes me laugh now to think I used to watch that.  I mean, Trance Gemini, lol.

[KeithJ]

Did I miss something in a previous episode?  Who are these people on the bridge the last few episodes.  Where is Detmer? Where is Owosekun?

[Joimiaroxeu]

The archivist Hy'Rell was hilarious, especially the disclaimer she gave them about not being responsible for any death or dismemberment. My local libraries seem so boring now, ha ha.

No fines for breaking the rules at this library. You simply get sent to a permanent dungeon. Well, more of an oubliette.

That was quite an emotional moment when Hy'Rell gave Book the tree roots from his lost homeland on Kwejian.

Space Daniel Craig steps up to the plate again! I love Rayner.

An old-fashioned card catalog. I was surprised Burnham knew what it was.

Oh noes, the Breen's library card was revoked.

Lol, Burnham cannot comprehend ever being wrong. The maze certainly drove that point home, almost at the expense of her sanity. The symbolism of all the lights slowly going out was apt.

Gelatinous assholes. That's the Breen!

Ew, Burnham said her stupid catchphrase.

The completed clue thingy looked like an elongated hand grenade to me.

Gee, Moll, if you lie down with Primarch dogs, don't be surprised if you get Primarch fleas.

Uh oh, Primarch, you overplayed your hand by underestimating Moll's resolve to bring back L'ak.

On 5/27/2024 at 1:46 PM, sugarbaker design said:

l loved Book as a space-age Andre Leon Talley.

Or space-age Billy Porter.

My favorite comment from reddit:

Quote

The Progenitor tech hasn’t been seen in over 800 years - they’ll likely arrive to find its busted or just a copy of the Kama sutra.

Yep, I'm prepared for a huge letdown after so much hype about it.