The View: Week of 2/19/2024

[falltime]

Monday, Feb. 19 – “The View” celebrates Presidents Day; Tyler James Williams (ABC’s “Abbott Elementary”); performance from Broadway’s “Spamalot”

 

Tuesday, Feb. 20 – Hilary Swank joined Alan Ritchson (“Ordinary Angels”); Mario Van Peebles (writer, director and actor, “Outlaw Posse”)

Wednesday, Feb. 21 – The Political View With Minority Leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY)

Thursday, Feb. 22 – Wendy Williams niece Alex Finnie (“Where is Wendy Williams”)

Friday, Feb. 23 – Susie Essman (“Curb Your Enthusiasm”)

[TheGreenKnight]

I hope Jeffries is in studio and it isn't one of those boring remote interviews.

Curious to hear what Thursday's guest might reveal (if anything).

Edited February 18 by TheGreenKnight

[KittyQ]

I don't think Whoopi and Sunny should be so sure about what "everyone knows" wrt Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Nothing is static, so what you saw or knew back in 2020 isn't necessarily still the same. And if Biden beat Trump in a debate back in the last election, that doesn't mean he could still do it today. Just because you won a competition once, that doesn't mean that you can win it again. 

[Haleth]

Is that even a thing that there might not be debates?  Is it just media speculation?

[MMEButterfly]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Is that even a thing that there might not be debates?  Is it just media speculation?

Trump is treating it as if he were an incumbent, and Biden is an incumbent. I suspect no debates. Each will appear alone for friendly interviews. That's my guess.

[Acmeproducts]

Looking forward to Hillary Swank. 

[Haleth]

I was getting very pissed off with the IVF convo. Only Sunny knew what she was talking about but her opinion was judgy and not practical for every family.  She’s lucky she used all her embryos.  Really, Joy?  Outlaw freezing embryos?  You have no idea how it works.  It’s too invasive and too expensive to not put some on ice. They wouldn’t survive otherwise. (I guess that would be a crime in AL, according to the topic as introduced.). It seems a lot of people need to do more research. 

[js9548]

Not trying to judge Sunny because if I had the money, I would do the same thing, but I did not think the Catholic Church supported IVF.  

[Shrek]

As with most religious people Sunny likes to pick & choose what applies to her & what doesn't depending on what way the way the wind is blowing, it's nothing new she does it all the time. 

 

[MMEButterfly]

Sonny isn't unique among Catholics using IVF. 

[Sue in her 60s]

Sunny took her position to the extreme when she nodded in agreement to charging the person who dropped the tray of frozen embryos with wrongful death of a minor or "extra-uterine child." If this holds, IVF doctors will be charged with wrongful death each time an embryo does not implant. In other words, the end of IVF.

[bluegirl147]

16 hours ago, js9548 said:

Not trying to judge Sunny

I will judge Sunny.  She thinks her beliefs are the right beliefs and anyone who doesn't believe the same thing is wrong.   She has tried to temper those beliefs since the Dobbs decision but she couldn't fool me.  

[Sue in her 60s]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

[Sunny] thinks her beliefs are the right beliefs and anyone who doesn't believe the same thing is wrong.  

What's amazing to me is that as a lawyer, she has made an obvious logical error. She has said in regard to abortion rights, that she has her beliefs but does not wish to impose them on others. Fair enough. But in this case, she herself used IVF and made sure to include in her statements about it that for ethical/religious reasons they made the attempt to implant every embryo created, which led to two healthy children. She expressed relief that not all of the embryos "took." This is contradictory enough. But then she went on to agree with charging someone with wrongful death because these frozen embryos were destroyed in an accident. If taken to its logical conclusion, the use of IVF technology would be severely impacted, from restricting the number of embryos created, to increasing the time and expense to undergo the procedure, to charging IVF doctors with wrongful death if an embryo does not implant and thrive. And to cap it all off, the court ruling in this case relied heavily on religious interpretation, which Sunny herself has said should not be imposed on others. She is being highly contradictory here.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Sue in her 60s said:

And to cap it all off, the court ruling in this case relied heavily on religious interpretation,

That for me was the worst part of their ruling.

1 hour ago, Sue in her 60s said:

She is being highly contradictory here.

Not the first time. She is the same person who gets insanely jealous if any woman so much as looks at Manny but is happy to accept drinks that men buy her in bars.

1 hour ago, Sue in her 60s said:

But then she went on to agree with charging someone with wrongful death because these frozen embryos were destroyed in an accident.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in divorce cases haven't frozen embryos been considered property? 

[Sue in her 60s]

15 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in divorce cases haven't frozen embryos been considered property? 

Yes, you are correct. Frozen embryos have been classified as property of the mother and father. (Not sure how that works in divorce cases.) And in this case, the parents of the embryos want to sue for wrongful death, not the state. But if this stands, can the state now start charging for wrongful death if parents have agreed to destroy unused embryos?

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Sue in her 60s said:

But if this stands, can the state now start charging for wrongful death if parents have agreed to destroy unused embryos?

There has always been questions of what to do with unused embryos.  Couples get divorced. Couples decide they don't want anymore children. And it's not free to keep them in a freezer.  Couples have to pay for that. 

[KittyQ]

1 hour ago, Sue in her 60s said:

But in this case, she herself used IVF and made sure to include in her statements about it that for ethical/religious reasons they made the attempt to implant every embryo created, which led to two healthy children. She expressed relief that not all of the embryos "took."

Sunny is fortunate that she ended up only with 2 children, or she could have been in the same position as the "Octomom", who had so many of her embryos implant and who got a lot of judgement for it. (I don't think she did it for ethical or religious reasons, which also contributed to the judgementalism.)  I think that many people choose to ignore the implications of destroying unused embryos, because they don't want to examine the moral or ethical considerations and the analogy to abortion. This case brings the issue to the forefront and may encourage people to think more deeply before making the decision to use IVF. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in divorce cases haven't frozen embryos been considered property? 

All I know about this is from the Law School of Law & Order, where in season 9, episode six in 1998 ("Scrambled"), the ex-wife sent out a hitman to rob the bank where her frozen embryos were because she couldn't STAND to have the much, much, much younger wife (played by the actress who was the snotty teen in Uncle Buck) to be implanted with them. In the midst of the burglary/robbery, a nurse was murdered. But oh my, oh my, the fighting over the embryos.

And since that show was famous for ripping stories from the headlines, i don't know if this particular one was based on a true story.

[Haleth]

When my daughter and her husband started IVF (second time) they had to sign a document stating what should happen to the frozen embryos in case something happens to one or both of them or in the case of divorce. Not sure how legally binding it is but I’m sure it would be useful in a dispute. And yes, there is a storage fee but that is far less expensive than having to repeat the procedure over and over again, which would be the only way to avoid unwanted extras, or forcing a woman to be Octomom. 

Edited February 21 by Haleth

[Snapdragon]

I think Sunny just got defensive since 1) she's the only one there who's been through IVF (which is a very difficult process.  Besides the monetary cost, there's also the physical toll it takes, as well as the emotional) and 2) the rest were all being very dismissive of the idea that embryos could be considered children.  I highly doubt any of them would say to a woman that's suffered an early miscarriage, "Well, it wasn't a baby anyway", so I feel they could have been a bit more sensitive on this topic.  Do I think somebody should be charged with accidental death to a minor (or whatever the charge was)?  No, though there should be some kind of consequence.  I am disappointed though that the panel couldn't acknowledge that this is a complicated issue and discuss how this situation would be similar/different to the cases where someone who kills a pregnant woman is charged with double homicide and what the implications of the ruling would be going forward.

[bluegirl147]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

All I know about this is from the Law School of Law & Order, where in season 9, episode six in 1998 ("Scrambled"), the ex-wife sent out a hitman to rob the bank where her frozen embryos were because she couldn't STAND to have the much, much, much younger wife (played by the actress who was the snotty teen in Uncle Buck) to be implanted with them. In the midst of the burglary/robbery, a nurse was murdered. But oh my, oh my, the fighting over the embryos.

And since that show was famous for ripping stories from the headlines, i don't know if this particular one was based on a true story.

I was thinking of that episode. Law & Order taught us a lot.

16 minutes ago, Haleth said:

And yes, there is a storage fee but that is far less expensive than having to repeat the procedure over and over again, which would be the only way to avoid unwanted extras, or forcing a woman to be Octomom. 

That is the fear now, at least in Alabama, that couples will only have one or two embryos implanted with no more frozen.

6 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

I highly doubt any of them would say to a woman that's suffered an early miscarriage, "Well, it wasn't a baby anyway", so I feel they could have been a bit more sensitive on this topic.

I get that but Sunny needs to be sensitive to the fact not everyone agrees with her.  She is letting her religious beliefs dictate what she thinks the law should be. 

7 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

No, though there should be some kind of consequence.

The person who actually destroyed the embryos (I haven't read anything that clarified if the person did it accidently or on purpose which I think does matter) should be held responsible.  But for wrongful death, no.  

 

[Sue in her 60s]

2 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

... cases where someone who kills a pregnant woman is charged with double homicide and what the implications of the ruling would be going forward.

I followed the first laws that were enacted in various states to charge homicide of a fetus (I don't know of cases concerning an embryo - 8 weeks of development or less) - when a pregnant woman was killed. The laws were brought forward decades after Roe (1973) by those opposed to abortion, for the very purpose of pointing out the perceived ethical conundrum of, on one hand, a woman having the right to an abortion before viability, and on the other, additional punishment of a murderer who ends the life of a fetus. The difference between these two situations is that in one case the woman is making her own decision and in the other someone else is making it. But these laws are often mentioned as reasons why abortion should be banned - ignoring the fact that abortion rights came first, and the double homicide laws were put in place to help challenge the right to an abortion.

[TheGreenKnight]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:57 PM, MMEButterfly said:

Trump is treating it as if he were an incumbent, and Biden is an incumbent. I suspect no debates. Each will appear alone for friendly interviews. That's my guess.

I thought it had been known for a while there would likely be no debates. Whoopi herself brought up the fact that the third debate in 2020 didn't happen either because Trump dropped out for a townhall instead when she was saying that Biden will always show up. I was shocked that she was the only one who mentioned it, too. I mean, Joy was right that any flub Biden might make will be over-dramatized while a mistake by Trump will be forgotten quickly, but I agreed with Whoopi on that one versus the rest.

It was nice to see Joy on Monday. I'm guessing Ana traded that day for Thursday last week, so she could see JLO. Staying in NY for Thursday and Friday makes more sense to me than staying there through the weekend (or maybe she simply flies back and forth two different times, what a pain that must be).

[Gemma Violet]

Sara's daughter at the end of the show was adorable. 

[KittyQ]

22 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

I highly doubt any of them would say to a woman that's suffered an early miscarriage, "Well, it wasn't a baby anyway", so I feel they could have been a bit more sensitive on this topic.

I agree with this. I've had friends who've had early miscarriages and they were devastated by the loss. I think after you've gone through the process of IVF, with the physical, mental, and financial toll, the loss of embryos would also be very difficult. It is a bit paradoxical that people have different responses to early stage abortion, early stage miscarriage, and the loss of embryos meant for IVF. 

I also remember the L&O episode, which made an impression on me. 

[Snapdragon]

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the panel was just laughing off that Biden's dog had bitten people at least 24 times?  It has bunk all to do with politics so I don't think it should be used in anything related to that but if a dog is biting people, it needs to be put down (and if it were anyone else, it surely would have been).  And we're not talking about a small dog that nips at people either, we're talking about a freakin' German Shepherd.  I don't think it's cute at all that this dog was attacking people and nothing was done about it for a long time.  If the headline, "Rich and powerful person lets dog attack employees" ran, people would be outraged but because it's the President, it's cool?  I'm just...confused.

[Haleth]

Isn’t that an old story?  I thought the dog was sent to live at the Bidens’ DE home a long time ago because he was too stressed by the activity at the WH. 

[Bronzedog]

19 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Isn’t that an old story?  I thought the dog was sent to live at the Bidens’ DE home a long time ago because he was too stressed by the activity at the WH. 

Yes, it’s an old story.  The dog was removed from the WH long ago.

[Snapdragon]

22 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Isn’t that an old story?  I thought the dog was sent to live at the Bidens’ DE home a long time ago because he was too stressed by the activity at the WH. 

The dog biting people and having to be removed is old.  The actual report that states how many biting incidents occurred is new.

[Kenz]

Mario Van Peeples is 67 years old??? Wow, what an attractive man. He also had a lot of constructive, relevant things to say.

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the panel was just laughing off that Biden's dog had bitten people at least 24 times?  It has bunk all to do with politics so I don't think it should be used in anything related to that but if a dog is biting people, it needs to be put down (and if it were anyone else, it surely would have been).  And we're not talking about a small dog that nips at people either, we're talking about a freakin' German Shepherd.  I don't think it's cute at all that this dog was attacking people and nothing was done about it for a long time.  If the headline, "Rich and powerful person lets dog attack employees" ran, people would be outraged but because it's the President, it's cool?  I'm just...confused.

I think it was Sarah that did try to say something along those lines but got talked over.

It is what it is & I'm sure that it's been dealt with one way or the other. 

[bluegirl147]

57 minutes ago, Kenz said:

Mario Van Peeples is 67 years old??? Wow, what an attractive man. He also had a lot of constructive, relevant things to say.

Years ago he was on Geraldo.  He is biracial and I remember him saying he was Black from the waist down.  LOL.  I have always enjoyed him in whatever role he was playing.

[Acmeproducts]

1 hour ago, Kenz said:

Mario Van Peeples is 67 years old??? Wow, what an attractive man. He also had a lot of constructive, relevant things to say.

I find that hard to believe. I know he’s 67 but I find it hard to believe. 

[maggiemae]

Even though Commander was removed to the Biden's DE home they still go there weekends with Secret Service.

[rwlevin]

On 2/21/2024 at 1:05 PM, Snapdragon said:

I highly doubt any of them would say to a woman that's suffered an early miscarriage, "Well, it wasn't a baby anyway", so I feel they could have been a bit more sensitive on this topic.  Do I think somebody should be charged with accidental death to a minor (or whatever the charge was)?

As somebody who went through IVF, I can talk about this. To me, each embryo was a chance of life. I had two embryos and both implanted but one miscarried. I was heartbroken that it did (I still am)  but I wouldn't trade my daughter for anything. Now if we'd had extra embryos, we were planning on donating them to research because they were chances of life, not actual children. Everybody is different. Some people discard them, some donate them to couples who can't conceive, some donate them to research, some keep them  indefinitely and some do what's known as compassionate transfer where they transfer the embryos during a time in their cycle when they know the embryos won't implant just so they can say they have them a chance of life. 

 

All that being said, if my embryos were destroyed before I had made a choice, I'd be devastated and angry and want whoever was at fault to pay. IVF is not for the faint. It's weeks of injections, a painful procedure to remove the eggs and you're never guaranteed a large number of eggs or embryos, letalone viable ones. I had 11 eggs harvested. Out of those 11, I got my daughter. And did I mention how expensive it is? I'm lucky my son was conceived naturally because I don't know if I could have gone through that whole rigamaroll again. But it still wasn't murder. I mean, it was the murder of a dream and a chance of life but not a person. The guy that dropped the embryos deserved to pay as did the facility where the embryos were held but not for murder. 

[Haleth]

Whoa, Sara is pushing back hard on Sunny’s opinions re IVF. Whoa, Ana is pointing out Sunny’s mushy religious convictions.

1 hour ago, rwlevin said:

The guy that dropped the embryos deserved to pay as did the facility where the embryos were held but not for murder. 

Yes, this is worthy of a civil suit, not a criminal one. 

[KittyQ]

Sunny's explanation of how the IVF ruling benefits Republicans and people who are concerned about maintaining racial demographics was unintelligible. I don't think she thought that through before she started talking. It sounded like a mish-mosh of half-baked conspiracy theory and social engineering ideas. I think she should have taken a little longer to figure out how to explain her point better.

[athousandclowns]

Joy’s  article was really good! 

[Denize]

23 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

The dog biting people and having to be removed is old.  The actual report that states how many biting incidents occurred is new.

Yes, the younger dog that wasn't removed is biting people now.  The dogs need to be trained from the start and if they cannot adapt to living in the WH where people are coming & going all the time, they should be rehomed in a calmer environment where they will not be constantly in defense mode.

Edited February 23 by Denize

[Snapdragon]

The Zendaya segment reminded me of a Danny DaVito interview I saw where he said that during school dances, he always went up to the tallest girl in the room and asked her to dance.  He figured that since shorter guys and taller girls can have trouble dating (or be self conscious), they might as well embrace it and dance with each other, and apparently this usually worked.  

[maggiemae]

Sunny was very upset...her perfect just 2 embroyos after lots of IVF, and going against her religion.

[Back Atcha]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:18 AM, rwlevin said:

And did I mention how expensive it is? I'm lucky my son was conceived naturally because I don't know if I could have gone through that whole rigamaroll again. But it still wasn't murder. I mean, it was the murder of a dream and a chance of life but not a person. The guy that dropped the embryos deserved to pay as did the facility where the embryos were held but not for murder. 

And this means that if anyone (we?) goes (go) to work for an IVF facility, one of the employment benefits the organizations/corporations we should expect, in addition to competitive pay, good health insurance, paid time off, etc....is INSURANCE against accidental damage to embryos.

Edited February 24 by Back Atcha
fixed "go"

[Back Atcha]

I wish Sunny would defend HER OWN BELIEFS and opinions and not make her Cath-O-lic church the scapegoat.  She and Manny were willing to go against the Church's strong opposition to IVF (some say it's a mortal sin), but she's "forced" to be against abortion because she's Catholic.  When she says she's anti-abortion, it should be her own stance.  She goes against science when she says (strongly) that an embryo is a baby.  Let her be as brave in all opinions.  Right or wrong.

From the 'net: "The Catholic church opposes all technological interventions into the process of human reproduction. More specifically, the document condemned artificial insemination and embryo transfer, in vitro fertilization, and surrogate motherhood under all circumstances."

[shok]

16 hours ago, Denize said:

Yes, the younger dog that wasn't removed is biting people now.  The dogs need to be trained from the start and if they cannot adapt to living in the WH where people are coming & going all the time, they should be rehomed in a calmer environment where they will not be constantly in defense mode.

The younger dog was removed some time ago. And they both were trained. Over and over again the POTUS and FLOTUS hired special experts to train the dogs and put them through all their obedience paces but they all, none of them, were able to manage these dogs no matter how much they tried. It probably has something to do with the breed of the dog having a particularly innate sense of loyalty and protecting their masters and the dogs sensed some danger to their alphas. I think the Bidens should heed what these dogs were trying to tell them and be very careful around the Secret Service.

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

And this means that if anyone (we?) go to work for an IVF facility, one of the employment benefits the organizations/corporations we should expect, in addition to competitive pay, good health insurance, paid time off, etc....is INSURANCE against accidental damage to embryos.

Yeah, the facilities and their officers and directors would already have liability insurance, but it seems like employees would be screwed.  Another possible unexpected result of the ruling?  I'm guessing all IVF research will be in danger of shutting down.  My daughter is in the middle of a new medication trial that will have no purpose if IVF is deemed illegal.  In this country anyway.

[TheGreenKnight]

I thought Sunny's comments about IVF were fairly clear on Friday's show at least? She's right that (most) Christians believe life begins at conception and all that, and she acknowledged religion and the law should be separate things just like with abortion. And I even agree with her that there should be some consequence for a situation like embryos being accidentally destroyed, only Ana is correct that it should be more along the lines of negligence and financial compensation, not defining it as "murder." Still, I imagine the person whose embryos are destroyed would feel more strongly about it than simply thinking it was negligence, I think that's the grey area where Sunny got lost in.

I enjoyed Susie Essman getting the final word on the Elmo discussion after Sara and Alyssa acted utterly ridiculous over it a week or two go.

[bluegirl147]

6 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I thought Sunny's comments about IVF were fairly clear on Friday's show at least? She's right that (most) Christians believe life begins at conception and all that, and she acknowledged religion and the law should be separate things just like with abortion. And I even agree with her that there should be some consequence for a situation like embryos being accidentally destroyed, only Ana is correct that it should be more along the lines of negligence and financial compensation, not defining it as "murder." Still, I imagine the person whose embryos are destroyed would feel more strongly about it than simply thinking it was negligence, I think that's the grey area where Sunny got lost in.

I enjoyed Susie Essman getting the final word on the Elmo discussion after Sara and Alyssa acted utterly ridiculous over it a week or two go.

Sunny said 50% of people in this country believes embryos are babies.  I would like to know where she got that number.  As I said in an earlier post Sunny's personal beliefs are hers.  She should not expect the law to be guided them. She is becoming more unlikable by the day.

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Sunny said 50% of people in this country believes embryos are babies.  

Someone on the panel should've asked her where she got that ridiculous number.  I don't see anyone pushing embryos around in a stroller.

Edited February 25 by sugarbaker design

[Shrek]

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Sunny said 50% of people in this country believes embryos are babies.  I would like to know where she got that number.  As I said in an earlier post Sunny's personal beliefs are hers.  She should not expect the law to be guided them. She is becoming more unlikable by the day.

For all of her supposed former prosecutor intellect she spouts some shit sometimes. This statistic is one of the 87.55 % of statistics that is made up on the spot unless she means 50% of her household. 

[TheGreenKnight]

10 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Sunny said 50% of people in this country believes embryos are babies.  I would like to know where she got that number.  As I said in an earlier post Sunny's personal beliefs are hers.  She should not expect the law to be guided them. She is becoming more unlikable by the day.

She wasn't giving an exact % as far as I could tell since it was something like she believed "at least 50%"--since she referred to Christians believing life begins at conception, she was probably thinking of the % of Christians. Who knows. I thought she said multiple times she thinks religion shouldn't decide law, just that for her "negligence" alone wouldn't quite cover it?