Fashion Police - General Discussion

[MarysWetBar]

Really. Considering she is a ringer for the crypt-keeper, she needs to STFU.

[cpcathy]

Good show, although I wish G and Kelly would stop announcing they are "obsessed" with stuff.

 

Brad is very knowledgable, liked his comment on Oprah's sleeves, I went, "oh yeah, he's right!"

 

However, we couldn't get a few more of the handsome guys, none of the Chrises? Just JK and Jared Leto?

[ProudMary]

 

However, we couldn't get a few more of the handsome guys, none of the Chrises? Just JK and Jared Leto?

Yes, I was disappointed that they only commented on the men's apparel that they disliked.  How about some of the guys who looked great?  For one, I thought Benedict Cumberbatch looked fantastic in his white dinner jacket.   Eddie Redmayne looked great in his blue tux also.  

 

What I'm seeing is that they seem to be concentrating more on comedy and less on fashion than they used to.  I'm not crazy about that.  I love to laugh at the outrageous get-ups but I also like to see the great praised.

 

 

Edited for punctuation.

Edited February 24, 2015 by ProudMary

[Jan Spears]

The thing I like about Brad is that he's able to isolate what's good or bad about a particular dress and then articulate it in such a way that the casual viewer/fashion fan can understand it.

 

For me, the weakest link is Kelly.  She'll start out OK making a reasoned case against a dress but then she loses confidence/steam and ends up praising the celebrity in question.

[Congo]

I was laughing my ass off when Giuliana pronounced "Vuitton" the way that Brad did and then she cracked up along with Kelly. But yeah, the Oscar show should have been 90 minutes, or hell, a full two hours because what else does E! have to air? They didn't even mention Cate Blanchett, Queen of the Red Carpet. I know her dress wasn't the best thing she's ever worn but they should have at least mentioned her. Plus they could have covered the after party dresses that the stars wore with the extra time.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Congo

[ruby24]

See, Joan said way worse stuff about all kinds of celebs, and this little blow-up at Giuliana just shows how much Joan could get away with that any normal person can't. People will take the chance to jump all over her, and she of course will be forced to apologize, while Joan would have just said fuck off and nobody would have been able to make her cave over something she said.

 

I do have to say though, if this results in Kelly Osbourne leaving the show like she threatened to do on Twitter, it will have all been worth it. PLEASE leave, Kelly!

[blaase]

I hope G keeps making fun of celebrities, she is getting to be kind of funny, not joan or Kathy funny but still funny to me. Don't let some teeny booper's hurt feelings change your opinions G.

[ruby24]

I know, this is such an overreaction, but it's going to test whether the show can/should even exist without Joan Rivers. They're going to have to be as fearless as she was if they want it to keep it going. Clearly Kelly is not, but if they got rid of her it could only improve. Joan would never care what anyone's reaction to a joke was.

[blaase]

 I like Kelly. But she won't be a big loss. I hope this Zendaya mess won't make the show more PC, eff that. 

[blaase]

If Kelly does leave, I could see them getting Khloe Kartrashian to take her place, and she usually isn't afraid to state when she doesn't like something.

Edited February 25, 2015 by blaase

[ruby24]

Ugh. Well, forget everything I said. Giuliana of course dropped to her knees to apologize on E! News over it. I knew she would though. There's really no reason for this show to exist without Joan.

[Maysie]

Well, Joan Rivers is known for the funny and her cutting wit. And Kathy's supposed to be filling that role now. Giuliana stepped outside of her straight-man role and she got called on it. And really, given that Giuliana is traditionally a huge suck-up to celebrities I can see where her comments are problematic.

[shipmate]

As far as I am concerned, Zendaya should be sending Guiliana flowers since she is getting a crap load of publicity for this. It was a freakin joke.

G better not be fired for this. I am already losing the Daily Show. I can't handle much more!

[Maysie]

I posted in the media thread that I think part of the problem with Giuliana's comment is that she stepped outside of her role. It used to be Joan's job to make those jokes -- if she'd made the joke, I'm sure Zendaya would have the same response, however there would be no apology (nor one expected, even if there should be). I think the perception is that Kathy's supposed to be making these cutting jokes now and Giuliana and Kelly are supposed to keep playing the aghast straight man.

 

Giuliana isn't known for her sharp humor; she's known for sucking up to celebrities. That's her shtick and I think it's part of the problem now.

[ruby24]

Of course she's a huge suck-up. I think she's been trying to pick up some of the slack of Joan not being there, but if she's going to do that she better be ready for the consequences, which means not backing down. Kathy is supposed to fill that slot, but she hasn't been nearly as cutting as I thought she was going to be. She's been pretty vanilla, actually.

[blaase]

I actually thought Kathy was a lot meaner to Zendaya than Guilana was, questioning why she was even at the oscars, or what the heck she did?? LOL Of course Zendaya only focused on the hairstyle.

[Kromm]

I actually thought Kathy was a lot meaner to Zendaya than Guilana was, questioning why she was even at the oscars, or what the heck she did?? LOL Of course Zendaya only focused on the hairstyle.

Yeah, but I think there's an important distinction here.

 

A "why are they famous" rant may be mean, but its pretty fair game.  It's totally "neutral" to someone's race, gender, etc.  You can apply it equally to anyone.

 

A stupid comment about dreads and drugs isn't neutral in the same way.  Applying it to a black person carries a different weight than applying it randomly (yes, I know Zendaya doesn't look it, because she's very multiracial, but she self-identifies as black, from what I recall).

 

Not that Joan wouldn't tell race jokes.  But Guilana isn't Joan.  She doesn't have the panache to carry it off in such a way that the target is amused rather than offended.

[Kromm]

See, Joan said way worse stuff about all kinds of celebs, and this little blow-up at Giuliana just shows how much Joan could get away with that any normal person can't. People will take the chance to jump all over her, and she of course will be forced to apologize, while Joan would have just said fuck off and nobody would have been able to make her cave over something she said.

 

I do have to say though, if this results in Kelly Osbourne leaving the show like she threatened to do on Twitter, it will have all been worth it. PLEASE leave, Kelly!

The thing is Skeletor isn't Joan, and trying to tell Joan-like jokes just backfires on her.  Of course people are offended when Guilana Rancic does it.  Joan got away with it for the same reason Don Rickles always has--it's over-the-top and is just as much about the joke teller as the target (it was a "meta" thing even before the term was invented).  A lightweight like Guilana can't get away with it, because you have to earn the instinctual understanding of the audience that this is what you're doing over time. It took Lisa Lampinelli years to do that, for example, although she's climbed into that territory now, and I guess Kathy Griffin has too.

I posted in the media thread that I think part of the problem with Giuliana's comment is that she stepped outside of her role. It used to be Joan's job to make those jokes -- if she'd made the joke, I'm sure Zendaya would have the same response, however there would be no apology (nor one expected, even if there should be). I think the perception is that Kathy's supposed to be making these cutting jokes now and Giuliana and Kelly are supposed to keep playing the aghast straight man.

 

Giuliana isn't known for her sharp humor; she's known for sucking up to celebrities. That's her shtick and I think it's part of the problem now.

Exactly.  It's a process to become that kind of figure, and it's never going to happen with someone like Guilana.  it requires a total dedication to that path--your entire career has to be based around it.  You also, frankly, have to be a lot wittier than Guilana.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kromm

[blaase]

Yeah, but I think there's an important distinction here.

 

A "why are they famous" rant may be mean, but its pretty fair game.  It's totally "neutral" to someone's race, gender, etc.  You can apply it equally to anyone.

 

A stupid comment about dreads and drugs isn't neutral in the same way.  Applying it to a black person carries a different weight than applying it randomly (yes, I know Zendaya doesn't look it, because she's very multiracial, but she self-identifies as black, from what I recall).

 

Not that Joan wouldn't tell race jokes.  But Guilana isn't Joan.  She doesn't have the panache to carry it off in such a way that the target is amused rather than offended.

 Why is it a race thing?? I see white people with dreads all the time.

[Kromm]

 Why is it a race thing?? I see white people with dreads all the time.

Who are often accused of being poseurs and "acting black."

[blaase]

Who are often accused of being poseurs and "acting black."

 

So whats  Beyonce doing , with her straight blonde hair?

[biakbiak]

The first thing Guiliana actually said was patchouli which is more associated with white hippies than anyone else which is I buy G's response she was thinking boho/hippie not about race.

Edited because I misread a comment.

Edited February 25, 2015 by biakbiak

[Wings]

Kelly's overuse of "obsessed" is tiresome. But otherwise this show is 100% more watchable for me than it was with Joan. The chemistry is better. Brad comes across as more knowledgeable and stands up for himself better than George did. Giuliana has been funnier and somehow realer. Kathy makes me laugh more than Joan has in recent years—no disrespect to Joan, who was a legend. Kathy brings out the best in the rest of the group. The laughs seemed forced with Joan—now they all genuinely seem surprised by what Kathy will say.

 

Also last not, for the Oscars recap, I thought Kathy looked as good as I've seen her recently. I liked her shorter, wavy hair.

 

 

I agree.  I like this group.  Guiliana is very witty and is able to show that more now that Joan is gone.  I liked Kathy's hair in that casual up do; she needs that softness around her face.  

[DkNNy79]

Totally agree that the show should've been longer as they missed a lot of the heavy hitters.

 

Zendaya is a gorgeous girl, but she looked awful at the Oscars.  The dress and hair were just terrible.

I didn't like Julianna Moore's dress.  It was boring to me.  I think you would want to look your absolute best if you think you're going to win an Oscar because that moment is going to be immortalized forever.

 

Yeah, sometimes they seem to be scared to offend a particular celebrity.  My biggest pet peeve in the past was Rihanna.  She would wear some ridiculous outfits and they would all be like "Rihanna is the only person who could pull this off."  No, I'm sorry but there are just some outfits that no one can pull off.

 

I thought Dakota looked great - I think she looks better as a brunette.  I loved Gwen's red earrings.  I thought it went perfectly with her pink dress.

Edited February 25, 2015 by DkNNy79

[cpcathy]

I detested the 10 second thing!  Mostly because Joan's set up took foooorrrever. So glad it's gone.

[imjagain]

I know, this is such an overreaction, but it's going to test whether the show can/should even exist without Joan Rivers. They're going to have to be as fearless as she was if they want it to keep it going. Clearly Kelly is not, but if they got rid of her it could only improve. Joan would never care what anyone's reaction to a joke was.

Yeah, including those 3 women held hostage for years in Cleveland.

Why is Kelly Osbourne a fashion expert? I see she said she is questioning returning. I question why she was ever there.

[spanana]

Yeah, but I think there's an important distinction here.

 

A "why are they famous" rant may be mean, but its pretty fair game.  It's totally "neutral" to someone's race, gender, etc.  You can apply it equally to anyone.

 

A stupid comment about dreads and drugs isn't neutral in the same way.  Applying it to a black person carries a different weight than applying it randomly (yes, I know Zendaya doesn't look it, because she's very multiracial, but she self-identifies as black, from what I recall).

 

Not that Joan wouldn't tell race jokes.  But Guilana isn't Joan.  She doesn't have the panache to carry it off in such a way that the target is amused rather than offended.

 

This.  Yes, Fashion Police has said worse.  But there is a difference.  Dreads originated with black culture.  White people may have appropriated them and wear them, but they originated and are heavily associated with black culture.  Giuliana herself praised Kylie Jenner when she got dreads and talked about how it was so edgy.  When Zendaya did it, it was met with negativity and stereotypes.  In what way did Zendaya even remotely look like a hippie at the Oscars?  Kathy's quip may have been mean but it was fixated on her status as a celebrity and therefore fair game.  Attaching negative stereotypes to Zendaya's hair has racial connotations and I suggest doing some research on the subject if you're not entirely sure why.  I don't even mean that as an insult, but I get that some don't understand why there are racial connotations attached to it and there have been some great articles about it in the past few days. Black women are often expected to conform to white standards of beauty, particularly as it relates to hair and particularly on red carpets, and when they don't they get called on it.  For instance Fashion Police have gone after Solange on multiple occasons when she wears her natural hair to events.  Just because Fashion Police have said worse, doesn't mean that people shouldn't call them out when they say vaguely racist things.  Also I think it blew up because there was already backlash to this years Oscars and the lack of diversity period in the nominations.

 

As for the apology, while Giuliana might not give a crap about Zendaya and her feelings, she does give a crap about many of the tv, movie and music stars that publicly backed Zendaya yesterday.  Shonda Rhimes, Viola Davis, Kerry Washington, Nicki Minaj, Solange, Ava DuVernay,  Taraji Henson, Lorde, Whoopi Goldberg, Michael Ealy, Timbaland, India Arie and many others celebs all backed Zendaya yesterday in some way.  So if Giuliana has plans to keep interviewing celebs on the red carpet, she needed to mend some fences.   She's not Joan Rivers and her livelihood does depend on the celebs she interviews/mocks.

Edited February 25, 2015 by spanana

[Kromm]

As for the apology, while Giuliana might not give a crap about Zendaya and her feelings, she does give a crap about many of the tv, movie and music stars that publicly backed Zendaya yesterday.  Shonda Rhimes, Viola Davis, Kerry Washington, Nicki Minaj, Solange, Ava DuVernay, Lorde, Whoopi Goldberg, Michael Ealy, Timbaland, India Arie and many others celebs all backed Zendaya yesterday in some way.  So if Giuliana has plans to keep interviewing celebs on the red carpet, she needed to mend some fences.   She's not Joan Rivers and her livelihood does depend on the celebs she interviews/mocks.

Yeah, except Rhimes made a nice fool of herself with her mean Lady Gaga comment.  But overall you're correct--Giuliana doesn't have Joan's rep or well earned free pass on dangerous humor.  And maybe now she knows it.

[Neurochick]

The first thing Guiliana actually said was patchouli which is more associated with white hippies than anyone else which is I buy G's response she was thinking boho/hippie not about race.

Edited because I misread a comment.

 

I saw the show and heard with Guiliana said.  I think she was calling Zendaya a boho chick more than anything which just sounded ignorant.

 

But the truth is these folks have to suck up to celebrities.  Joan didn't have to because she'd been around a long time and paid her dues.  Now there are so many entertainment shows, all trying to justify their existence.  If someone is seen as overly nasty to a celebrity and they, and others refuse to patronize that particular show, well, the person who made that comment is out of a job.

 

E probably told Guiliana to apologize.  

 

Also, having straight hair (though not blonde) is considered, in this society to be the default, while having dreadlocks is considered "exotic," so having locs isn't the same as straightening your hair IMO.

 

I don't think what Shonda said about Gaga was as nasty as what Guiliana said about Zendaya, because it didn't have any racial implications and maybe Shonda thought Idina Menzel was the better singer.  Personally, I thought Gaga was great and sounded very much like Julie Andrews.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Neurochick

[spanana]

Yeah, except Rhimes made a nice fool of herself with her mean Lady Gaga comment.  But overall you're correct--Giuliana doesn't have Joan's rep or well earned free pass on dangerous humor.  And maybe now she knows it.

 

Yes, but while Shonda Rhimes comment might be construed as mean, it certainly had no racist connotations.  These are two different things.  Nowhere did Zendaya complain that Fashion Police critiqued her choice of dress (they did), nor did she complain about Kathy's dig at her celeb status.  They have also critiqued her outfits previously to no comment. I don't think Giuliana is this awful person, but she does need to think twice about the stuff that comes out of her mouth.  She did something similar on a red carpet with Aziz Ansari awhile back where she started falling into stereotypes and he completely called her out on it and actually told her she was being racist, just he said it in a fairly comical way and it probably went right over her head.   I also imagine Shonda, Viola and Kerry are not industry people you want to piss off these days and I think Giuliana knows that.  And Solange is one step away from Beyonce.  So yeah...

Edited February 25, 2015 by spanana

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

So whats  Beyonce doing , with her straight blonde hair?

Conforming to what society considers beautiful because ignorant people call the way in which black people's hair grows out of our head ugly. Although some black people have naturally blonde hair so there's that too. 

 

I hated Joan Rivers. She never missed an opportunity to call Jennifer Hudson fat. I always wished JH had actually had an opportunity to spit in her eye after she lost the weight.

 

 

[Kromm]

Yes, but while Shonda Rhimes comment might be construted as mean, it certainly had no racist connotations.  These are two different things. 

I suppose it depends on if you believe the conspiracy theory that although Rhimes used the white Idina as her alternate suggestion to Gaga, that she was actually pissed about Gaga getting all the media attention instead of Common and John Legend.

[Palomar]

It definitely was a stupid remark and I can understand why Zendaya was upset but I definitely don't see why she wouldn't accept her apology and move on.  For the record, I didn't think the dreads were a good look for Zendaya (especially for the Oscars) and that has nothing to do with race.  I just didn't think she pulled it off. Is there a way to say that without offending someone....I just don't know.  Surely Guliana failed on that account but also acknowledges that.

 

The Fashion Police as a show is pretty much going to have a slow death.  No one can say the outrageous things that Joan said and get away with it.  If everyone on that team has to think about everyone they are going to offend with negative comments, the show is just going to be another Entertainment Tonight.  Of course racist comments shouldn't be tolerated, but I give Guliana the benefit of the doubt that her comment was meant to be edgy and funny and was just a fail instead (that she has acknowledged).

Edited February 25, 2015 by Palomar

[Kromm]

Conforming to what society considers beautiful because ignorant people call the way in which black people's hair grows out of our head ugly. Although some black people have naturally blonde hair so there's that too. 

Heh.  That gets into the territory of multi-racial people who self-identify as black.  Which actually come to think of it is very relevant here, since even though she's not blonde, Zendaya certainly is exactly that (a multiracial person who identifies as black).

[spanana]

It definitely was a stupid remark and I can understand why Zendaya was upset but I definitely don't see why she wouldn't accept her apology.

 

But she did accept her apology.  The real one.  Not the half assed one she put on twitter talking about bohemian something or other.  At this point it's the media that hasn't moved on.

Edited February 26, 2015 by spanana

[Maharincess]

I hated Joan Rivers. She never missed an opportunity to call Jennifer Hudson fat. I always wished JH had actually had an opportunity to spit in her eye after she lost the weight.

Well....she was fat. Its not like it was a big secret. People always say somebody is too thin but when somebody says somebody is fat that's wrong somehow. Makes no sense to me.

[Frost]

Someone else first said "Or weed!" after G said patchouli.   I thought that was Kelly.  Was it Kathy?

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

Well....she was fat. Its not like it was a big secret. People always say somebody is too thin but when somebody says somebody is fat that's wrong somehow. Makes no sense to me.

And as evidenced by JHud's current look, fat can be changed, but looking like the cat shat you out cannot. Therefore Ms. Rivers, IMO, should not have commented on anyone's appearance considering her face looked like she was a victim in Hiroshima. It's one thing if you have anything at all going for you in the looks/style department but Ms. Rivers had neither.

 

Hope that's a little clearer...

Edited February 25, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[tobeannounced]

This is the first time I've watched Fashion Police in ages.  I just could not stand Joan Rivers' stupid jokes.  I am really liking this panel and will definitely tune in again. I think Giuliana's Zendaya comment will actually turn out to work in her favor by giving the show some publicity.

[catray]

I think Guilana's comment was undoubtedly stupid and insensitive, Guilana has apologized and Zendaya accepted her apology-- while I think there's certainly a dialogue to be had over beauty standards and race, so hopefully people can move on to have that discussion instead of just being outraged. As for Kelly's ridiculous statements about people needing to make it right and thinking about quitting the Fashion Police-- don't let the door hit you on the way out, Kelly. For someone who says she is a friend of the victim, she certainly didn't stand up to Guilana on air (which, maybe it got cut for time or something) but seriously-- getting on the internet and demanding people apologize is much easier than saying it to their face and Kelly would have been a lot better served to have been upfront with Guilana, not threatening to quit the show via Twitter.

 

I always hated Joan ragging on people's afros (Solange in particular comes to mind), so I'm not upset Guilana is getting reamed for this. I honestly don't think she meant to make a racist comment, but it was ignorant and she really should think before she opens her mouth.

[Maharincess]

Was George let go from the show or did he opt to leave? I watched this episode just to see how they handled things without Joan. I'm not a fan of Kathy Griffin, so I don't plan to watch anymore episodes. She lost me years ago with her "suck it Jesus" comment at an awards show. There are some things you just don't say, and that crossed a line for me. YMMV.

That speech just made her love me even more. I loved it so much I went right to her website and ordered a "Suck it jesus" shirt.

She's an atheist so there was no "line" for her. I thought it was hilarious.

[catray]

Putting aside Guilana's comments about Zendaya's dreds on the Oscar carpet, I am enjoying the current iteration of Fashion Police. Mainly because I think Kathy doesn't claim to have any fashion cred and they mostly just snarking on the outfits. Joan, who did have the cred, focused too much her own brand of comedy and it became less about the fashion and more about which outrageous jokes she would make (imo). While I certainly wish there was more actual fashion critique, I feel like this version of the show is more authentic than when Joan was heading the show. Maybe that doesn't make any sense to anyone but myself: long story short, I still like the show.

 

I miss George but so far Brad has been pretty good. I could take or leave Kelly (the fact that she's still "obsessed" with everything doesn't make her an expert by any stretch) but so far am liking the chemistry between the group.

[hendersonrocks]

It's amazing to me how many times this Upworthy post on G's apology has been posted online today. Are we really so shitty at apologies as a people that GIULIANA'S is breaking news? Sigh.

 

Wait. Is this real life? You've never heard a celebrity apology like this. 

[lizzy07]

I'm not sure why G needed to comment on the hair at all -- unless she was going to say how nice it was. Really, I thought the hair was stunning. It made the dress look prettier than it was.

Unintentional racist undertones aside, Zendaya is only 18 and should be off-limits to snark.

[tobeannounced]

That speech just made her love me even more. I loved it so much I went right to her website and ordered a "Suck it jesus" shirt.

She's an atheist so there was no "line" for her. I thought it was hilarious.

I'll buy the "Suck it, Allah" t-shirt.  Oh, wait, we don't go there, do we?  That's not PC.

[Maharincess]

Shit, I'd wear that one too.

Catray, I totally get what you're saying. When Joan was on they would mainly comment on the clothes just to set up Joan's jokes.

I loved Joan but it got old.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Maharincess

[lizzy07]

 

Catray, I totally get what you're saying. When Joan was on they would mainly comment on the clothes just to set up Joan's jokes.

I loved Joan but it got old.

I agree. I loved Joan, too, but some of her stuff I just didn't think was funny -- just crass.

[blaase]

Zendaya is an adult, so I don't think she is off limits. I thought her hairstyle was not great, and I have nothing against dreads. Her hairline looked really strange and it made her forehead look really small, also it looked way too big and fake. If she dreaded her own hair it would have probably come down to her shoulders and looked much better.

I mean how are you gonna stand up for women of color wearing their hair natural when what you have on your head is fake???

Edited February 26, 2015 by blaase

[Kromm]

Zendaya is an adult, so I don't think she is off limits.

18 is an odd age.  Technically an adult, but come on... not really.  Honestly, I think that level of snark should be off-limits until they're 21.

[chitowngirl]

Do you think they should have kept the same format after Joan died or should they have rebooted it to be more of a Fashion Rap-Up? The former TV Guide channel used to to a Fashion type show after award shows and they basically did what Fashion Police used to do-show tons of celebrities, comment on them and moved on. I enjoy a little snark as much as everybody, but I tune in to see what everyone was wearing. And I can go online these days if Fashion Police doesn't show me all the celebs. Heck, Yahoo has them up immediately!