S05.E23: Tell All Part 2

[Shrek]

Nobody started a thread so I did.

Please delete if I overstepped. 

[anoninrva]

Shawn continues to be useless.  Yohan kind of surprised me going off on Armando.   His was the most tepid of criticisms, even landing a couple of justified barbs into Danielle first.   Julio's receipts were an enormous waste of time.

[suzeecat]

Everybody jumping to Holly's defense that Wayne was annoyed with her surprised me.  I don't blame Holly for getting out of Dodge and running back home, but the sick mom excuse was BS, IMO.  I forget exactly what business Wayne is in but it was some type of plumbing, electrical, something?  Again, IMO, anyone who's in that type of business and is struggling to stay afloat has no one to blame but themselves.  At least here in US, skilled trades are a hot commodity and hard to find.  You would have to work pretty hard to fail to build a successful business. 

Julio and blonde ex (name escapes me) was boring as heck.  I had long ago forgotten that they were even on this season.  The re-hashing as to who cheated first was wasted time. 

Again, WHY are the peanut gallery there????  WHO CARES what they have to say?!?!?!

It always surprises me when the participants have strong opinions about the other participants.  Like, why do they even care?  I guess they must be coached to bring the drama and criticism.

Sarper conducting exotic stripper dance move instructions, totally eye-roll worthy!

[anoninrva]

2 minutes ago, suzeecat said:

Everybody jumping to Holly's defense that Wayne was annoyed with her surprised me.  I don't blame Holly for getting out of Dodge and running back home, but the sick mom excuse was BS, IMO.  I forget exactly what business Wayne is in but it was some type of plumbing, electrical, something?  Again, IMO, anyone who's in that type of business and is struggling to stay afloat has no one to blame but themselves.  At least here in US, skilled trades are a hot commodity and hard to find.  You would have to work pretty hard to fail to build a successful business. 

Wayne runs a small plumbing business.  It doesn't look like he has many (any?) other people working for him, so he can't just up and leave for a couple of weeks without destroying his business.  He is very much stuck there.

I do find it interesting that as much as religion plays a role in these stories, no one really remarked that Holly and Wayne belong to a very obscure one, and that's no doubt a factor in their suitability for one another / ability to find other partners.  But I still think she has completely checked out of being in South Africa, and he has no plans to leave, so their relationship is terminal.

[Shrek]

6 minutes ago, anoninrva said:

I do find it interesting that as much as religion plays a role in these stories, no one really remarked that Holly and Wayne belong to a very obscure one, and that's no doubt a factor in their suitability for one another / ability to find other partners.  But I still think she has completely checked out of being in South Africa, and he has no plans to leave, so their relationship is terminal.

They are both ex JW, they met on a site for ex JW so i'm not sure what obscure religion you mean.

[anoninrva]

21 minutes ago, Shrek said:

They are both ex JW, they met on a site for ex JW so i'm not sure what obscure religion you mean.

I guess I didn't realize they were Ex-Witnesses.  If they can just marry anyone, or don't even need to marry for sex anymore, that would relieve some pressure.  I don't know how JWs feel about divorce, but that would be irrelevant if they're no longer practicing.

[Scarlett45]

As far as Julio and Kristin- something tells me there’s a bit of truth in each of their stories. I think it’s likely Julio was on his way out of the door, so Kirsten either cheated or tried to make him jealous. I think they were poorly suited and it’s good they broke up, but Tania did have a good point, if Kristin thought Julio broke up with her for someone else, she didn’t lead with that? I mean they weren’t married yet (were they technically engaged??) but she would be justified in being upset. I dunno. 
 

Danielle and Yohan, I think Danielle had an inflated sense of self importance, but she was genuinely hurt that Yohan thought their relationship was a horror story. If Yohan just wanted a woman with more earning potential than him, he could’ve found one in the DR. He wanted to come to the USA or be kept- you promised at least the first (I don’t think she told Yohan if he married her he would never have to work again) and didn’t deliver so he left. 

While I think Kenny and Armando have one of the healthiest relationships in this franchise, I do think he’s having a child for Armando. He’s got FOUR biological children and is over 60- he’s not doing it for himself. 

[IvySpice]

5 hours ago, suzeecat said:

WHY are the peanut gallery there?

At least they've watched the show...unlike the host.

[DanaMB]

I really didn’t like the piling on Kirsten. I usually love Tim, but I didn’t like when he said she was lying. How does he know? Ugh.  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, DanaMB said:

I really didn’t like the piling on Kirsten. I usually love Tim, but I didn’t like when he said she was lying. How does he know? Ugh.  

I don’t think Kristen is a bad human, but I got why they questioned her story. The peanut gallery seemed fair. Kristen seems like the type who cries easily when she gets upset and overwhelmed which leads people to not push or question her.
 

Julio is no prize and I think he was stringing her along from what we saw of their time together, but there was truth in his version as well. 

[1011101010001]

13 hours ago, suzeecat said:

I forget exactly what business Wayne is in but it was some type of plumbing, electrical, something? 

Plus even if he had to front the cost of the materials when the customer pays you recover that and then you pay down her credit card.

13 hours ago, anoninrva said:

He is very much stuck there.

I think he had said he looks after his dad and his sister lives several hours away.  But I think there are also legal reasons he can’t come to the US even for a few days.

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

He’s got FOUR biological children

And multiple grandchildren and a stepdaughter. 

[athousandclowns]

I think k I remember stating the being Jew was why tgey coulnt sleep together till after marriage. 

[1011101010001]

Although they had slept together on a previous trip so it’s cafeteria religion.

[Stuckathome]

Holly and Wayne---I thought people were being a bit harsh on Wayne with the criticism that he wasn't supportive enough. I was happy he finally came right out and said what I think a lot of people watching have felt---Holly is exhausting to be around. The constant complaining and hysterical sobbing and crying and depression just wears you down emotionally, especially if you are around it day after day after day and then stressed about other stuff in your life. It becomes too much and you shutdown. No wonder he has stopped calling. He probably realized wow I have some peace and can be less stressed without her around. yet he does love her and remembers when she was the happy go lucky woman he fell in love with and wants that back, so he feels bad. And it is easier to just let it be and avoid dealing with it. What about Wayne's emotional needs? We saw one snippet on camera where he walked in after working 12+ hours and she didnt' even say hello before she started clawing at him hysterically about the lights being out and "I wanna go to America" like a small child having a tantrum.  In Holly's defense, depression is a bitch and she feels what she feels. I am sure if she could flip a switch and feel happy again she would. No one WANTS to feel that shitty. 

Yohan and Danielle---I was surprised that no one pushed him for concrete answers. And I think it is clear he is lying about never having brought women to the apartment. I agree with her, if all that they are saying is true he is borderline sociopathic. I would be on those pages venting and warning other women too. But after the dust settles she just needs to move on. I dont' understand wanting to still have dinner with his family, maintain a relationship with them. She said they are so sweet to her and good people and I thought, honey where do you think he learned his con game and hustle?? They are hustling her for what little they can still get. 

[Scarlett45]

@Stuckathome I think Holly and Wayne are poorly suited. I think they liked each other but Holly is too emotionally needy to be away from her community and rely only on Wayne for emotional support. This is likely a situation where two people just shouldn’t be together. 

 

16 hours ago, IvySpice said:

At least they've watched the show...unlike the host.

Yeah I haven’t minded them. 

[Shrek]

9 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

I think k I remember stating the being Jew was why tgey coulnt sleep together till after marriage. 

Who in the world are you talking about? 

8 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

Although they had slept together on a previous trip so it’s cafeteria religion.

Who? If you're talking about Holly & Wayne they are ex JW so they can do as they please & may have just been appeasing her mother prior to getting married.

[Stuckathome]

44 minutes ago, Shrek said:

just been appeasing her mother prior to getting married.

Yes, I think that was the thing...Holly is twice divorced and Wayne mentioned at least one ex wife, so no one assumes any virginity lol.I am still confused as to if they are or are not still JW. Because I thought it was "ex", then she mentioned as  JW you don't get many things you are allowed to celebrate so that is one reason she wanted the wedding to be "perfect." 

 

As for not wanting to live in SA, this confuses me because she knew damn well what it was like there before she moved and married the man. Did she expect to convince him to come to the US eventually, was that her game plan? I can't imagine living there, but I can see from his perspective it is a lot of fuss for nothing. He has grown up with the crime and is a bit immune to the stuff that shocks Holly and other foreigners about daily life. It just isnt' a big deal to him. Life goes on. and as he mentioned he spent a lot of $$ on improvements to make her feel safer in the house, including the backup power which she keeps acting like she had no idea existed in her own home and he insists he showed her plenty of times (I believe Wayne). So I can see him saying WTF woman, I lived her my whole life without this extra security stuff and I am fine. Thousands of others are in our city living their lives and they are fine and she can't make it work?! 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Stuckathome

[Shrek]

7 minutes ago, Stuckathome said:

Yes, I think that was the thing...Holly is twice divorced and Wayne mentioned at least one ex wife, so no one assumes any virginity lol.I am still confused as to if they are or are not still JW. Because I thought it was "ex", then she mentioned as  JW you don't get many things you are allowed to celebrate so that is one reason she wanted the wedding to be "perfect." 

They said at the beginning that they met on a site for ex JW so they may only have just been ex JW when they first met. I'm sure they both missed a lot of celebrations before they became ex JW which could explain her comment about not being able to celebrate many things. 

There are many adjustments to be made once leaving any cult like religion & these can take a long time and the people may never enjoy a more "normal" life as it will always be there in some way. 

[1011101010001]

1 hour ago, Shrek said:

Who in the world are you talking about? 

Who? If you're talking about Holly & Wayne they are ex JW so they can do as they please & may have just been appeasing her mother prior to getting married.

I thought there was some blather about because they were both raised in the religion they wanted to try to honor its precepts.  The mother was not mentioned.  For all we know she could be ex as well.

[Granny58]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:08 AM, anoninrva said:

Wayne runs a small plumbing business.  It doesn't look like he has many (any?) other people working for him, so he can't just up and leave for a couple of weeks without destroying his business.  He is very much stuck there.

I do find it interesting that as much as religion plays a role in these stories, no one really remarked that Holly and Wayne belong to a very obscure one, and that's no doubt a factor in their suitability for one another / ability to find other partners.  But I still think she has completely checked out of being in South Africa, and he has no plans to leave, so their relationship is terminal.

I haven't watched all season so this is news to me.  What religion do they belong to?\

ETA:  Never mind, I see somebody else has answered already.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Granny58

[athousandclowns]

3 hours ago, Shrek said:

Who in the world are you talking about? 

Who? If you're talking about Holly & Wayne they are ex JW so they can do as they please & may have just been appeasing her mother prior to getting married.

Typo sorry I typed JW and could have sworn she said because they don’t believe in sex before marriage . Which I thought at the time didn’t make sense because she was married before.  Maybe what little gray matter I have left isn’t picking up important crap on reality shows . Am I wrong about that they  met on a JW dating site?  
edited to add the mention of ex JW dating site.  Things must be difficult in that department to choose someone so far away.  It’s kinda of a joke that many on dating sites say they have a half hour drive limit.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by athousandclowns

[J80134]

. Yohung selling the boyfriend experience and that dirty D to every woman he can hook. Apparently, he comes cheap as he's still always broke.

Kenny is a young 60, but he'll be almost 80 when a baby is ready for him to pay for college. Armando should focus on his daughter and his cushy housewife life.

Stoic Wayne and fragile Holly are a terrible match. His eye rolling shows exactly how little he is moved by her emotions.

Sarper is more tragic than magic. Barf-o-rama!

. Yohung selling the boyfriend experience and that dirty D to every woman he can hook. Apparently, he comes cheap as he's still always broke.

Kenny is a young 60, but he'll be almost 80 when a baby is ready for him to pay for college. Armando should focus on his daughter and his cushy housewife life.

Stoic Wayne and fragile Holly are a terrible match. His eye rolling shows exactly how little he is moved by her emotions.

Sarper is more tragic than magic. Barf-o-rama!

[toomuchtv]

Julio and Kirsten, they were talking about how it was suspicious if her “Papi” was just a friend why didn’t she introduce him to Julio… but wasn’t Julio planning to move away with her without even telling his family about Kirsten until the show was filming? He can’t really say anything about not introducing the significant other to friends/family.

[Stuckathome]

11 hours ago, toomuchtv said:

but wasn’t Julio planning to move away with her without even telling his family about Kirsten until the show was filming?

YES!!! I was yelling that at the screen; how did no one there bring that up??? His family didn't know she existed and she was supposed to be his fiance. His mom had no clue; that outranks a random guy named Papi in her phone lol 

[Scarlett45]

17 minutes ago, Stuckathome said:

YES!!! I was yelling that at the screen; how did no one there bring that up??? His family didn't know she existed and she was supposed to be his fiance. His mom had no clue; that outranks a random guy named Papi in her phone lol 

I agree. I don’t think Julio was as into Kristen as she was into him, and I think he didn’t really want to move to the Netherlands, but I do have to agree with Tim a little bit, something else was going on with her and that guy. A broken clock is right twice a day. Julio may have ended things with her anyway because he met someone else he wanted to pursue. 

At the end of the day I’m glad they broke up because it would’ve been a disaster of a marriage. 
 

FYI- Holly and Wayne met on an ex-JW site, but @athousandclowns they explicitly said that we’re waiting until they got married to have sex with each other. Which I don’t think is unbelievable just because they have both been married before. Deciding to have sex with one person in one circumstance (marriage) doesn’t mean you’re game for every other sexual experience. I know several religious people who have been divorced/widowed and didn’t have sex again until they were married again. (If you don’t mind I understand, but I don’t think it’s a given) I do think Wayne is done with the marriage and it was a bad idea. 

[1011101010001]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

said that we’re waiting until they got married to have sex with each other

I’m pretty sure they said they had sex on her previous visit but leading up to the wedding they didn’t want to.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, MrBuhBye said:

I’m pretty sure they said they had sex on her previous visit but leading up to the wedding they didn’t want to.

Ah gotcha yes that makes sense. 

[lightninggirl]

Tim is a piece of shit. I hated him last tell-all where he brought absolutely NOTHING and he's proving that he's still a prick. Tim's face when Kenny was talking about the surrogate was ridiculous, and he needs to keep his little shitty opinions to himself. Is he going to be raising twins? Changing a diaper at 3am? NO, so STFU. 

Piling on Kiersten is ridiculous when she had pretty much zero screen time. 😂 I believe that the friend was just a friend, but she definitely turned on the waterworks when she started on the whole makeup artist thing. Julio and Tim can fuck off to their piece of shit island together and bother society no more.

Why did we have to revisit the world's saddest gay bar? Oh, god, why.

I love Wayne's disgusted head-shaking when Daniele said she had dinner with Johan and his family. Johan's just trying to change the narrative, which is so common with the sanky panky scam. 

Sarper continues to prove himself to be a misogynistic pig. Shekina attempted to (very poorly) defend him and you made your bed, honey. Pathetic.

Holly and Wayne are an odd combo. Wayne seems like a confirmed bachelor who needs a business analyst/marketer (or an assistant to build his business), but for him to flat-out refusing to take a vacation in America is ridiculous. He also seems to be very role-based as the provider, which is fine but not at the expense of a relationship.

Also, what did Sarper say in the preview for Pt. 3 when the extraneous woman asked, "How does 2,500 HAPPEN?" It sounded like he said, "I was fighting something," but his mouth didn't look like it was saying that. Then Shekina said, "Oh my god," so it must have been new info. Was he a gigolo? Gay for pay? A sex addict? I replayed it about 4x but it never got any clearer - TIA!

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by lightninggirl

[Tango64]

I thought I heard "I was hiding something." Guessing he was a prostitute, quite likely gay for pay with the image he has cultivated. Or it's a whole fake out and he was hiding his love of peanut butter or something.

[Gobi]

Is it my imagination or did Julio and Kirsten have more screen time on the Tell All than they had during the regular season?

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

Is it my imagination or did Julio and Kirsten have more screen time on the Tell All than they had during the regular season?

It isn't your imagination. 

2 hours ago, Tango64 said:

I thought I heard "I was hiding something." Guessing he was a prostitute, quite likely gay for pay with the image he has cultivated. Or it's a whole fake out and he was hiding his love of peanut butter or something.

I'm going  with him being a prostitute and more than likely it wasn't relegated to one sex. If you paid, he was yours. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by libgirl2

[lilmarysunshine]

7 hours ago, Gobi said:

Is it my imagination or did Julio and Kirsten have more screen time on the Tell All than they had during the regular season?

Honestly at first I was like “who the hell is Kirsten?” I had completely forgotten about them. 

Tim is insufferable. He looks TERRIBLE. Not a fan at all of Pillow Talk. In fact, I NEVER watch it. All it does is puff up these losers who think they are clever. 

[Tango64]

45 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Tim is insufferable. He looks TERRIBLE.

His experience on the franchise seems to have encouraged him to embrace everything that makes him so odd, so off putting in so many ways. 

[DiamondGirl]

I agree about Tim.  He’s a freak and has nothing to offer.

I’m tired of Kenny and Armando.  They’ve had their turn on this show - they’re not fiancés anymore and I’m a little bored with them.  “You move to Mexico City for me; I’ll agree to a baby.”  They’re both selfish because Hannah will have her world turned upside down both ways.  They barely mention her.

While Julio is no doubt a cad, let’s not forget that he had a good job at a resort until waddly Daniele made him quit because she was jealous of the women he could encounter.

Edited December 16, 2023 by DiamondGirl
Quote didn’t work because I’m challenged 🤓

[DiamondGirl]

Ignore please 

[Tango64]

1 hour ago, DiamondGirl said:

I’m tired of Kenny and Armando.

Me too. They’re way past the format of this show and now we’re just watching them barter over what each other wants.

Poor Hannah seems an afterthought. 

[lilmarysunshine]

3 hours ago, DiamondGirl said:

I’m tired of Kenny and Armando.  They’ve had their turn on this show - they’re not fiancés anymore and I’m a little bored with them.  “You move to Mexico City for me; I’ll agree to a baby.”  They’re both selfish because Hannah will have her world turned upside down both ways.  They barely mention her.

100%
 

Originally I liked them because they have definitely been one of the most normal couples on this franchise. Their time together has been pretty smooth sailing once his parents accepted things so in order to keep their TLC money coming in, they have to create tension with a proposed move to Mexico City and now a baby. And now throwing Tim in between them. 🙄  Keep sucking on that 90 Day teat. 

Armando knew Kenny was 60 and a dad to 4 before he even met him.  I am damn near that age myself having raised my own kids. Let Kenny enjoy Hannah and being a grandfather. 

[1011101010001]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:05 AM, DiamondGirl said:

While Julio is no doubt a cad, let’s not forget that he had a good job at a resort until waddly Daniele made him quit because she was jealous of the women he could encounter.

I think you meant Yohan.  

How many times is Kenny going to trumpet he doesn’t need ED meds unlike Gino?  The lady doth protest too much.  They like to act like they are so naughty but I bet they are in bed at 9 reading Agatha Christie mysteries.

[IvySpice]

I guess I would never be chosen for a romance reality show, because I think there's no point in picking apart evidence of someone's fidelity. If you don't trust them, don't marry them. It's actually that that simple.

[DiamondGirl]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:35 AM, MrBuhBye said:

I think you meant Yohan.  

Oops, you’re right, I did. Thanks!

[Chalby]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:04 AM, suzeecat said:

Everybody jumping to Holly's defense that Wayne was annoyed with her surprised me.  I don't blame Holly for getting out of Dodge and running back home, but the sick mom excuse was BS, IMO. 

I was floored. I'm sorry, but Holly resembled some disheveled, hairy mess that some cat coughed up. She isn't even comfortable in her clothing - always tugging something down like her skirt, or tugging something up.

Meanwhile, Wayne's eyes looked very blue and aside from looking fed up, he just looked fairly healthy and better than usual.

Out of the entire cast, Wayne is the most accomplished, normal, and authentic. I would bet big money that a ton of women have already slid into his DMs because where else are you going to find a single eligible bachelor who has a decent job and wants to settle down?

Sorry Holly, you snooze and you lose.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Chalby

[Chalby]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:57 AM, Tango64 said:

Me too. They’re way past the format of this show and now we’re just watching them barter over what each other wants.

Poor Hannah seems an afterthought. 

Tim, Tania, Kenny and Andre should not even be on the show. Aside from Kenny (who always says the right thing) they are too apathetic and irrational, at the best of times, to offer advice to anyone.

Tim 'declaring' Kiersten is a liar almost had me tackle the TV in anger (according to my husband).

Given the little bit of information Julio 'alluded' to, as cheating "receipts", was a f'king joke. Julio's obvious inability to commit, stay faithful, or his unwillingness to level with Kiersten is appalling!

Finally, Is something wrong with Danielle's mouth. Is she chewing gum while talking?

[gaPeach]

Quote

Sunday at 01:18 AM (edited)

  On 12/12/2023 at 11:04 AM, suzeecat said:

Everybody jumping to Holly's defense that Wayne was annoyed with her surprised me.  I don't blame Holly for getting out of Dodge and running back home, but the sick mom excuse was BS, IMO. 

I was floored. I'm sorry, but Holly resembled some disheveled, hairy mess that some cat coughed up. She isn't even comfortable in her clothing - always tugging something down like her skirt, or tugging something up.

Meanwhile, Wayne's eyes looked very blue and aside from looking fed up, he just looked fairly healthy and better than usual.

Out of the entire cast, Wayne is the most accomplished, normal, and authentic. I would bet big money that a ton of women have already slid into his DMs because where else are you going to find a single eligible bachelor who has a decent job and wants to settle down?

Sorry Holly, you snooze and you lose.

I totally agree.  From what we saw on the show you could tell she is an exhausting person to be around.  And I think that is when she is being normal.  She acted as though she was afraid of her own shadow.  So all the other castmates dumping on Wayne need to reel it in. You could tell he was torn; he loves her but she is too much to be around.  He even said she cries so a lot.  It is hard to muster up sympathy her if she cries at the drop of a hat.  And you can tell she does.

And again, you have another American jump at the chance to move to another country without really giving it any thought or doing any research about the culture you are about to move to.  She pulled a reverse Danielle.  

So, my sympathy is with Wayne.  He tried and it seems as though he is going to try it again.  But I do not see her moving back.  He needs to cut his losses and cut her loose. 

On 12/24/2023 at 1:35 AM, Chalby said:

Given the little bit of information Julio 'alluded' to, as cheating "receipts", was a f'king joke. Julio's obvious inability to commit, stay faithful, or his unwillingness to level with Kiersten is appalling!

I too had to search my memory on who this couple was. Then I remembered the mama's boy who did not even tell his mother, properly, who Kristin was when she came to visit.  In fact, he told his mother pretty much nothing about her.

So, when they started talking about cheating, I did not know where that came from.  Was it even a thing during their ill-fated, short-lived stint on the show.  All I remember is he was unwilling to tell his mom the truth, so they split up.  Nothing about cheating.  Did I miss something?

On side note: Kirstin needs to learn how to sit up properly.  My back hurt watching her.