S00.E161: The Star Beast

[gail56]

I loved this episode! From the first it felt like Doctor Who again. Loved the opening credits! On another forum someone wrote how good it would have been if RTD or Moffat had written for Jodie. Especially minus the Timeless Child nonsense, except for Doctor Ruth. We have to keep Doctor Ruth somehow! 

All the humor, banter and heartfelt stuff that I always enjoyed about this show is back. Under Chibnall it felt like I was watching a different show with the same name a lot of the time. 

Everything about this episode was wonderful. Except for the shootout. I could do without watching shootouts, unless they are space shootouts.

[ajsnaves]

When the Adipose plushy turned up, any other Star Trek fans think “Oh no! The Moopsie has escaped! Guard your bones everyone!”

Something I noticed on the rewatch, The Doctor was not using 13’s Sonic. It looked like a variation on 11’s. Without the green. I wonder if there was any significance to that. Are we gonna see bits and bobs  from other Doctors? 4’s Scarf?  2’s flute? 5’s celery? (Not many people can pull off a decorative  vegetable.)

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, cuppasun said:

Yeah, they're my go-to listings source, too, and when I couldn't play the special early in the morning, I ended up checking other sources and found the error. I sent them an email to alert them, but I have no idea if that does any good (though I imagine I wasn't the only person to alert them!). What I read is that the start time in the U.S. corresponds to the start time on BBC in the UK, which makes sense. If FC doesn't correct their listings, I'm just going to assume the rest of the specials (and probably episodes, too) will also drop around the same time as this one.

Really wish Disney was more forthcoming!

Disney put out a press release 2 or 3 days before the first special confirming all 3 specials will be shown worldwide at 6:30pm GMT (UK time), so 1:30pm ET in the US or whatever your timezone is compared to the UK

[Turtle Wexler]

Really enjoyed this!

As others have said, it seemed like David Tennant and Catherine Tate fell right back into their Doctor/Donna groove, and it was wonderful to see Jacqueline King again, too. I love the way Sylvia’s relationship with Donna has changed but is still familiar. 

I also love Yasmin Finney. I am trying to remember when it was announced that she was cast; I wasn’t familiar with her, and then I watched Heartstopper (on Netflix) and thought she was great, so when I remembered that she was cast as Rose, I got excited. I agree with Morrigan2575, though; YF is 20, so it dawned on me that she was not quite the right age to play Donna’s child—she definitely doesn’t seem to be 14—though I also freely admit, I’m happy to ignore the blip because I like her, but it’s annoying that TPTB didn’t pay attention to that while casting. 

I am so happy that Wilf is alive and well, and am so glad that Bernard Cribbins was able to film a role in the special(s). It’s going to be bittersweet to watch him. I had to pause the episode several times and regroup; one of my cousins who also loved DW passed away last year, and so I kept thinking of him while watching and watching I could text him. (And so Wilf still being here after BC passed away  is a really lovely gift.)

I also love Miriam Margolyes, and she clearly had fun with the role of The Meep. As DoctorAtomic said, I liked The Doctor very easily grasping the idea of using the definite article as one’s pronoun, acknowledging that and moving on. I also really like the character of Shaun and how he seems to just roll with whatever Donna says and does, and clearly adores her and Rose. Donna as protective-will-go-scorched-Earth-mom and also take a shot at her husband, “Thank you, Bob the Builder” was lovely and fun to see, too.

I am glad that Russell T Davies is back. I still haven’t watched all of Jodie’s episodes, but that’s also down to not being able to afford another streaming service. 

Looking forward to next week! 

 

[Lantern7]

*sigh* I caved. Hulu has a Black Friday deal where you can go on their service for 99 cents a month for a year, and an additional $2 gets you D+. I'm not proud of myself because I rarely use the platforms I had before I got Hulu and D+. Also, there's going to be a point where Disney will overreach and wreck perhaps the most defining sci-fi series to ever have existed. Right now, though, I should just enjoy the ride and ask no questions.

Actually, that's a lie. I have one big question: Can any of you imagine Donna giving birth? I'm thinking the labor was several days long and Donna killed a bunch of people before she delivered Rose. Seriously, I like this Rose . . . and since she's one of the first featured characters of the new regime, you can speculate whether she qualifies to be a Disney princess.

Tennant is still Tennant, and we'll love him for that, even when he goes into the depths of the Doctor's soul. When the partition closed between him and Donna, I was expecting her to knock on the wall four times. That would've sent him over the edge.

So it's just The Meep, yes? Not "Beep the Meep"? I'm thinking a lot of fans of non-TV canon are going to be displeased. I knew the Meep was going to be evil, but I am impressed by how bad the Meep was. Plotting to kill nine million people just to get away from Earth is a heckuva starting point for a potential nemesis. Right now, it beats bringing in old enemies for the new Doctor to spar with.

Wilf is alive? I'm hoping we got something with Bernard Cribbins before he passed on, because putting the character offscreen yet alive seems cruel and unnecessary (like what Archer did to Malory after Jessica Walters died).

One special down, two to go. Let's see what else RTD has given us. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to get The Meep in my sketchbook by the end of the year. I'm not sure about Fourteen, though. Are there any major differences from Ten?

Edited November 27, 2023 by Lantern7

[PurpleTentacle]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:33 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

I also didn't like the new Tardis, too modern and cold/sterile.  

It actually reminds me of the first doctor's Tardis in a sense. Like if they had the budget to build it really big and fancy back in the day.

It's a lot sleeker than anything we've had in NewWho, but I like it. Especially imagining Ncuti's doctor in it.

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'd like Tennant to not just do Fourteen as an older Ten because there's been 3 regenerations and a lot of time since then. To be fair, Fourteen seemed a little more emotional, or expressive of emotion. He said "I loved that man," about Wilf, and seemed surprised he said it out loud. He also called Donna his 'best friend'. 

That's how Tennant said he was going to play it. He basically said "There wouldn't be a point to me coming back if I'd play it completely different. But at the same time I've been these three different people and that experience will change some things."

I personally thought he pretty much nailed it. He isn't quite the same as we last saw him. You can tell that he had a lot of experience since then, but of course his core personality is still the same. The curator also still seemed like Tom Baker, with a bit of a twinkle in his eye.

7 hours ago, gail56 said:

On another forum someone wrote how good it would have been if RTD or Moffat had written for Jodie. Especially minus the Timeless Child nonsense, except for Doctor Ruth. We have to keep Doctor Ruth somehow! 

I still think Whittaker is just a bad actor. Jo Martin somehow managed to feel like the doctor, even with Chibnall's horrible scripts.

Sure the scripts were the main problem, but I don't think the Whittaker doctor would have been good with the most stellar writing in the universe.

6 hours ago, Turtle Wexler said:

I am so happy that Wilf is alive and well, and am so glad that Bernard Cribbins was able to film a role in the special(s).

Oh he was? That changes my opinion from above. Then it's nice that he's still alive here.

I forgot how long they've been filming these specials. He died in July last year.

On 11/26/2023 at 4:22 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

It seems to me that the 'old face' means there's some unfinished business, and it would stand to reason that's going to resolve for the regeneration. I think that's fine. 

I assume the

Spoiler

Toymaker

has something to do with it. The doctors clothes regenerated. That hasn't happened since the first doctor and there it only happened because they hadn't figured out how regeneration works exactly.

18 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Donna, not to mention other companions, have never needed a Time Lord's intellect to be important to the Doctor and world.  Giving her that power was the culmination of RTD's misguided (in my opinion) goal of making the companion the most super duper being in the galaxy - there's nothing wrong with a regular person finding it within themselves to do incredible things.

There might not be anything wrong with a regular person, but it's fun to mix things up from time to time and Donna really enjoyed having that knowledge. That was what made it exciting, the fun she was having with it. A regular person suddenly having access to so much knowledge and doing good with it was just great to see.

I could have done with that for two more specials. It's not like we are talking multiple seasons here.

16 hours ago, Llywela said:

Not to mention that it is a well-trodden sci fi trope for an ordinary person to accidentally get great power or knowledge downloaded into them, use it to save the day, and then have to give it up again to save their life.

Yeah, it's so well trodden that it's boring. Even RTD did it already with Rose at the end of the first season. It would be fun for the normal person to get to keep the extraordinary power for once.

[Kite]

I enjoyed this one a lot. I went into it without much in the way of expectations, because although I loved Ten/Donna, I’d rather the show keep moving forward. Well, this episode kept moving forward at a brisk cheerful pace, and was a lot of fun. I miss the Whittaker era, and I’m looking forward to Gatwa, but fiiiiiine I’m enjoying this and damn it’s great to have Doctor Who back on screen. And quarantined somewhat from the Tories, thanks RTD.

I’m guessing the Meep is gonna be talking to the Time Lord who is about to make this Doctor’s life way more fraught. I’m a sucker for Time Lords so that’s an easy sell. Also their lore but I’m guessing RTD will probably maintain his allergy to Gallifrey hanging around, oh well. I’d rather they be there causing periodic trouble and annoyance for the Doctor. And the Sisters.

You really don’t believe in destiny by now, Doctor? Come on, what show are you in? It’s full of prophecies and magical coincidences despite its rationalist sheen. The TARDIS is the very embodiment of that. 

I agree with the on-the-nose nature of the pseudo-feminist “let it go” thing. Sigh. One of the things I did not miss from the Moffat era, but here it is. Still, TERF island needs to get clobbered over the head with positive messages about trans people so I hope it hit its mark. 

I think the TARDIS wanted to have some chaotic fun with Donna and the Doctor. Totally wouldn’t put it past her.   A tame little hop? With so much history and emotion flying around? No sir, destiny awaits! 

I don’t know how long it will be before that fobwatch in the depths of the TARDIS will be mentioned, if it will take years or decades (it will, because writers, even though of course we can’t really get the full answer), but I’d love if it would be sooner than that. Even if just a whispered babble of voices and a dark look.

My kids might even like this episode. Which I’m absolutely sure RTD is heavily aiming for. 
 

EDIT: I really doubt RTD will kill off Donna, because A) he’s indicated in the past he wants to redo Donna’s ending to serve her better, B) RTD is leaning heavily into feel-good family-friendly plus fan-pleasing nostalgia to get people back in, C) Doctor Who doesn’t actually do major sympathetic character death that often. The exception was Moffat and he gave them all happily ever after. And Adric. Everyone hated Adric until he died, and that was decades ago.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Kite

[baldryanr]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Actually, that's a lie. I have one big question: Can any of you imagine Donna giving birth? I'm thinking the labor was several days long and Donna killed a bunch of people before she delivered Rose. Seriously, I like this Rose . . . and since she's one of the first featured characters of the new regime, you can speculate whether she qualifies to be a Disney princess.

Is being a secondary character on a D+ show really all it takes?  If so, then that's a really low bar and meaningless title -  I mean, it's arguably a meaningless title regardless, but Disney would say otherwise.

[QuantumMechanic]

Thoughts in no particular order...

* Tennant and Tate picked up where they left off like they had never left the roles and still work great with each other.
* Bombastic story, which I guess sorta makes sense for a special.
* Liked the musical nostalgia/callouts
* The discussion between Sylvia and Donna about Rose was so nicely done which made the ending that much worse.
* Couldn't roll my eyes hard enough at the cookie-cutter "we're gonna kill her...hahah no we're not" thing.
* Can really see the effects of the Disney $$$$
* Davies could easily have tied the resolution to Time Lords vs humans (short-lived humans find it easier to let things go) or specifically to Ten who quite famously was unable to let go.  But no -- Davies had to instead show his sexist ass.
* Nonetheless, that was still better than almost all episodes of ChibnallWho.

[tennisgurl]

That was so much fun, its so good to have Catherine Tate and David Tennent back again, with Russel T behind the scenes. For better or for worse, this was definitely a RTD script, and maybe its my rose (pun not intended) colored glasses but I feel like I'm watching classic Who again. Like others have said, Tate and Tennent stepped so easily back into their roles it was like they never left them, their chemistry is just off the charts. Ten and Donna are my second favorite Doctor/Companion pairing, after Eleven/Rory/Amy, so I was always going to like this episode, but even beyond that this was a great time. 

I'm so glad that they came back around to Donna again and gave her back her memories, that always left such a bad taste in my mouth, so no matter what happens in these specials I am relieved that we got closure with Donna. It was great seeing both Donna and her mom going full mama bear several times while also being very much "for Christ sake!" moms filled with hilarious exasperation. Donna's husband seems really nice, good for her finally finding a good guy, she seems like she's happy which is what I wanted. I like Rose and the actress playing her, even though I think she was supposed to be a lot younger than she looked, they talked about her like she was a young teen when she looked more like a college student. 

I thought the Meep was adorable even after we found out he was evil, I would absolutely pay for a plush Meep toy that looks all cute until you squish him and his big teeth pop out. It can be part of a line of cute plush versions of Doctor Who villains, just in time for the holidays! 

[DoctorAtomic]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That's how Tennant said he was going to play it. He basically said "There wouldn't be a point to me coming back if I'd play it completely different. But at the same time I've been these three different people and that experience will change some things."

I'm impressed with myself then. I'd like him to mine a little more from being the first regeneration after the first female Doctor. There's got to be something for him to learn there. 

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

A regular person suddenly having access to so much knowledge and doing good with it was just great to see.

That's a good point because it reinforces how the Doctor can inspire 'ordinary' people to step up when the opportunity comes. When she didn't have 'doctor powers' and just won a boatload of money, she did the same. 

 

I'm imagining a very pregnant Donna "we are going into labor - now. Get. The. Car." 

[libgirl2]

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That was so much fun, its so good to have Catherine Tate and David Tennent back again, with Russel T behind the scenes. For better or for worse, this was definitely a RTD script, and maybe its my rose (pun not intended) colored glasses but I feel like I'm watching classic Who again. Like others have said, Tate and Tennent stepped so easily back into their roles it was like they never left them, their chemistry is just off the charts. Ten and Donna are my second favorite Doctor/Companion pairing, after Eleven/Rory/Amy, so I was always going to like this episode, but even beyond that this was a great time. 

 

Donna is my favorite companion of the modern era, Sarah Jane of the old era. Friends, no romance (though they changed that up with Sarah), just great chemistry and fun. 

[DanaK]

20 hours ago, cuppasun said:

Yeah, they're my go-to listings source, too, and when I couldn't play the special early in the morning, I ended up checking other sources and found the error. I sent them an email to alert them, but I have no idea if that does any good (though I imagine I wasn't the only person to alert them!). What I read is that the start time in the U.S. corresponds to the start time on BBC in the UK, which makes sense. If FC doesn't correct their listings, I'm just going to assume the rest of the specials (and probably episodes, too) will also drop around the same time as this one.

Really wish Disney was more forthcoming!

Note, the Futon Critic has now updated their listings for the 2 remaining specials to say 1:30pm ET

[DanaK]

The below article says the special on Disney+ did well though they don't seem to say where they get the info from

https://www.thepopverse.com/doctor-who-anniversary-special-the-star-beast-ratings-viewership

 

[ajsnaves]

15 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

So it's just The Meep, yes? Not "Beep the Meep"? I'm thinking a lot of fans of non-TV canon are going to be displeased.

When The Meep did their heel turn, they said something like “I am Beep of the Meep.” I did not notice it until I rewatched with captions on.  I assumed Beep was something like a title, like King of the Meep.  But I guess it is a name, like Lothar of the Hill People. (Much has he seen, and much has he done.)

[mledawn]

I confess I haven't really been able to get into Doctor Who the last two Doctors - it wasn't must-see tv for me. I was excited when Ncuti was announced, and this special hooked me right back in. Donna and Ten together again, loved it.

I was startled to see Bernard Cribbins in the Behind the Scenes footage of the initial table read. I'm glad they made mention of Wilf in the episode, and hope they were able to use what he filmed before his passing. 

[Kite]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm imagining a very pregnant Donna "we are going into labor - now. Get. The. Car." 

To be fair, I think labour brings out the Donna in a LOT of people going through it. Speaking with first-hand experience. 

6 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Donna is my favorite companion of the modern era, Sarah Jane of the old era. Friends, no romance (though they changed that up with Sarah), just great chemistry and fun. 

It was an easy but very funny comedy shot with Donna asking her husband if he’d be jealous if she went with the Doctor, husband eyeing him up and answering in the emphatic negative, and the Doctor’s offended face hahaha, the Ten in him was …OUCH. 

[DanaK]

Here is the source for the worldwide rank of the special on Disney+. I don’t  know how it gathered its info. The page I’m posting shows the countries that had a rank for the show, with the rank on the far right column

https://flixpatrol.com/title/doctor-who-the-star-beast/

[DoctorAtomic]

Hasn't Doctor Who always been "woke" though? If we're going by an objective definition? 

[DanaK]

1 minute ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Hasn't Doctor Who always been "woke" though? If we're going by an objective definition? 

Yes, it tends to be liberal

[arachne]

FWIW: I may be female, but that doesn't mean I can "let it go" (whatever that means) more easily than any other gender.

But overall, I enjoyed this special episode, though I'm saddened to see how it has polarized so many fans. Some of that vitriol I've seen on YouTube -- couldn't imagine that happening fifteen years ago! 😟

[libgirl2]

14 hours ago, DanaK said:

Yes, it tends to be liberal

Very much so. The doctor has never been the "establishment". 

[DanaK]

I believe someone was asking about audience share earlier; it was 36.5% according to this site https://guide.doctorwhonews.net/info.php?detail=ratings&type=date

[Daisy]

Truthfully I thought [really hoped] that Tenannt & Tate & RTD doing the 60th anniversary would really re-spark my Whovian but I have to say I really didn't like the bits I saw (Started it after work, but then fell asleep) then just seeing my twitter and youtube blow up and seeing clips and etc - I know it won't since the things that bothered me w/11 & Amy(River, Clara) and 12 (Clara), is really relevant here . 

Shame. 

But i truly hope y'all enjoy it. :) (I will say it did look POSH) 

[JustHereForFood]

21 hours ago, arachne said:

FWIW: I may be female, but that doesn't mean I can "let it go" (whatever that means) more easily than any other gender.

But overall, I enjoyed this special episode, though I'm saddened to see how it has polarized so many fans. Some of that vitriol I've seen on YouTube -- couldn't imagine that happening fifteen years ago! 😟

15 years ago people couldn't make a shitton of money by complaining about stuff online.

[Llywela]

The Donna of 15 years ago wouldn't have been able to let it go, either, but 15 years of family life has brought her a long way. It doesn't bother me that there are clumsy moments, as long as the rest of the story is good.

I do just wanna note for the record that the Doctor claimed in this episode to have been UNIT's first ever scientific advisor. This is not strictly true. Liz Shaw was the first, she was specifically hired as such by the Brigadier before the Third Doctor turned up having been exiled to Earth. She kind of shared the role with him after that, but she was definitely the first to be given the job!

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, Llywela said:

The Donna of 15 years ago wouldn't have been able to let it go, either, but 15 years of family life has brought her a long way. It doesn't bother me that there are clumsy moments, as long as the rest of the story is good.

I do just wanna note for the record that the Doctor claimed in this episode to have been UNIT's first ever scientific advisor. This is not strictly true. Liz Shaw was the first, she was specifically hired as such by the Brigadier before the Third Doctor turned up having been exiled to Earth. She kind of shared the role with him after that, but she was definitely the first to be given the job!

Liz is shortchanged by Who yet again.

[Eulipian 5k]

Where was the Star Beast? There was The Meep and the Bug-eyes hunting it, but there was no giant Whale with London on it's back, or Sycorax ship, so who was the Star Beast?

Loved The Doctor being a Definite Article kind of person.

Did the Doctor land on Me's Trap Street?

[storyskip]

The numbers that will be the most telling will be the numbers for the second and third episodes. 

IF there is any drop off of viewership and if so, how much. Some audience members aren't going to care and will be happy to keep watching. Some audience members -myself included- aren't going to appreciate being preached at, which is what drove a lot of us away from 13's run, and we'll drop this and spend our money elsewhere.

People were really excited for the return of RTD, Tennant and Tate. The marketing has been brilliant and as a huge Donna Noble fan, I was definitely looking forward to seeing how her story got resolved.

I was holding off picking up Disney + until all 3 episodes dropped, just because I like to binge watch, but I was really excited to give Doctor Who a second chance.

As a viewer I definitely agree that Doctor Who has always been liberal leaning. That said, I don't enjoy being preached at in my entertainment. I was all on board to watch, until I saw the clips of the "something a male presenting Time Lord will never understand" came out.

That sealed the deal for me. I'll keep my money in my pocket, and House of Mouse has one less subscriber. 

[QuantumMechanic]

6 hours ago, storyskip said:

As a viewer I definitely agree that Doctor Who has always been liberal leaning. That said, I don't enjoy being preached at in my entertainment. I was all on board to watch, until I saw the clips of the "something a male presenting Time Lord will never understand" came out.

Yeah -- some people complaining about people complaining about the show are conflating two things.

There are the people who want to pretend gay and enby and trans people don't exist.  And there are the people who are fine with that but put quality storytelling above Making Some Point.

For example, the scene were the neighborhood kids deadname Rose and then Donna and Sylvia talk about that and how Sylvia tries to use the right pronouns and Donna talks about how enraged she was by what happened was natural and was a great scene. (Natural because that taunting is something that really happens and Donna and Sylvia's discussion in the wake of it follow naturally from that.)

But the metacrisis plot resolution scene was eyerollingly anvilicious and clunky and takes one out of the story.  (Not to mention that it (a) was a clear contradiction of the point the episode had been trying to make and (b) was blatantly sexist to boot!)

Edited November 30, 2023 by QuantumMechanic

[JustHereForFood]

No, we don't, we just find it frustrating/funny-if-it-wasn't-so-dumb that people act as if the show has never been woke or as if other shows didn't have cases of so-so dialogue that people can ignore because 90% of the episode is great.

[Starchild]

9 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

For example, the scene were the neighborhood kids deadname Rose and then Donna and Sylvia talk about that and how Sylvia tries to use the right pronouns and Donna talks about how enraged she was by what happened was natural and was a great scene. (Natural because that taunting is something that really happens and Donna and Sylvia's discussion in the wake of it follow naturally from that.)

But the metacrisis plot resolution scene was eyerollingly anvilicious and clunky and takes one out of the story.  (Not to mention that it (a) was a clear contradiction of the point the episode had been trying to make and (b) was blatantly sexist to boot!)

There's a YouTuber that I like to watch sometimes (some of you are probably familiar with her), Vera Wylde (channel: Council of Geeks), who is a trans woman and a huge Doctor Who nerd. She reviewed this episode and made some very thoughtful statements making these same points. I'm another who really appreciated the trans /non-binary aspects of the episode while simultaneously scratching my head at how that metacrisis resolution unfolded, and she explained it in a way that I appreciate. 

It's long so if you're only interested in the metacrisis resolution part that's causing so much controversy, start at 33 minutes. 

I think it's worth checking out her channel if you're interested in a trans woman who often views genre shows and movies through a queer lens, but is, IMO, quite fair and balanced in her analytical approach. She rarely has a purely emotional response to something without being able to clearly explain it with facts.

As an analyst myself, I appreciate her takes, whether or not I always agree.

[Kite]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:19 AM, Daisy said:

I know it won't since the things that bothered me w/11 & Amy(River, Clara) and 12 (Clara), is really relevant here . 

Interesting, since I couldn't stand those relationships in particular out of all new Who, but what bothered me there I didn't see here.

[Kite]

On 11/29/2023 at 2:09 AM, arachne said:

But overall, I enjoyed this special episode, though I'm saddened to see how it has polarized so many fans. Some of that vitriol I've seen on YouTube -- couldn't imagine that happening fifteen years ago! 😟

Well, youtube was barely starting back in 2008, and it was a lot of silly memes and so forth, still pretty niche. Social media in general was pretty decentralised. And not a career choice.

But if you're saying DW fandom wasn't full of polarised vitriol 15 years ago, you'd be dead wrong, unfortunately. It was full of raging fans raging about how terrible the show was and how woke the show was and calling for it to be cancelled and the latest producer fired. I know, because I was there. And 25 years ago. Whenever I felt masochistic enough. It was just confined to very particular nerd parts of the internet. And before that, the drama was mostly conducted via fanzines and meetings. It's unfortunately been traditionally quite a toxic fandom, and I think it's actually got a lot better over time as spaces diversified and more people came in and younger people got better at critical analysis and just less bigoted. What changed in 2005 was an influx of (mostly) female fans who formed their own spaces which were actually a lot more positive, but endlessly mocked and discredited. Plus there was Jacob and his essays at TWOP. But they weren't THE main fandom space and its satellites back then, where people involved in the show like Steven Moffat used to hang out (although he wisely cleared off before his 2005 episodes aired). It's not much of a secret that RTD based the Abzorbaloff on a very particularly terrible ascended fan, and had very little time for how gross the fandom was.

[Kite]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:52 AM, DanaK said:

Here is the source for the worldwide rank of the special on Disney+. I don’t  know how it gathered its info. The page I’m posting shows the countries that had a rank for the show, with the rank on the far right column

https://flixpatrol.com/title/doctor-who-the-star-beast/

Thanks for this. Stats obviously reflect eastern vs western hemisphere in terms of days vs time zones. Nice to see Australia and New Zealand being the loyal colonies we are in terms of Doctor Who viewership. Though I'll bet a great deal of Australian fans sailed the high seas like they said they were going to after our Auntie lost the rights to it, and D+ is so expensive.

Interesting, very popular in Turkey, or at least popular with D+ subscribers there.

[DanaK]

7 day consolidated numbers are 7.61 million viewers and 10th on the weekly chart. It might have gone higher in rank but 7 nights of “I’m a Celebrity..” clogged up the upper part of the chart along with the stalwart Strictly with its 2 nights. But Star Beast was the highest rated drama of the week. The specials are doing well so far

Edited December 5, 2023 by DanaK
corrected typing error

[Starchild]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:30 AM, Kite said:

and D+ is so expensive.

In Canada at least, they're starting up an ad-supported tier. $9/month instead of $15. I'll probably switch.

I have the ad-supported Netflix as well for $6/month. The ads aren't too bad (better than YT), certainly worth the money saved. 

Just waiting for Apple TV+ to go ad-based and I'll likely get that too. Severance looks really interesting.

[John Potts]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:28 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Did I misunderstand what was going on? I thought "Rose" came out as non-binary because the Doctor regenerated as a female? I thought all of "Rose" was tied to the Doctor (her she'd, toys, gender fluidity).

That was my take, too.

On 11/27/2023 at 6:37 AM, Lantern7 said:

I'm thinking the labor was several days long and Donna killed a bunch of people before she delivered Rose.

Naturally, since she apparently gave birth to a 5 years old!

[JustHereForFood]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:28 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Did I misunderstand what was going on? I thought "Rose" came out as non-binary because the Doctor regenerated as a female? I thought all of "Rose" was tied to the Doctor (her she'd, toys, gender fluidity). That's why at the end she said, she finally felt like herself? 

I very much doubt that that was the intention. It would not be a good message to tie her being trans to the connection to the Doctor, there is nothing alien or supernatural about being trans. Some people just are trans and the sooner that everyone gets over themselves and just accepts that, the better. 

It's possible that being trans could have helped her to understand the part of her that was connected to the Doctor better, since she was already open to thinking outside the norms that most of us impose on our perception of life and the universe - like the Doctor said in the third special, the universe is not binary.

[Affogato]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:28 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Did I misunderstand what was going on? I thought "Rose" came out as non-binary because the Doctor regenerated as a female? I thought all of "Rose" was tied to the Doctor (her she'd, toys, gender fluidity). That's why at the end she said, she finally felt like herself? 

This wasn’t exactly my take, but I thought it was an acknowledgment that she is connected to the doctor and the doctor is non binary. Not specifically because of 13, not sure if that is what you meant.   I think the actor is too and they will continue on the show as themself.