Season 6: History Beyond the Episodes

[Athena]

Discussion of season 6 overall: what TPTB could have done, comparison to actual historical events, and what they missed out on. Future history and spoilers are allowed. Not for the discussion of the current BRF.

[Roseanna]

The two interpretations I have read about the kiss photos are that Diana deliberately arrenged it because either (a) she was in love in Dodi and wanted to make it public or (b) she was still in love with her previous lover, the doctor, and wanted to make him jealous and change his mind about not to marry her.

Whatever the truth, the show's interpretaton that it was Dodi's father arranged the paparazi was a good idea because it suited to the narrative. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

The two interpretations I have read about the kiss photos are that Diana deliberately arrenged it because either (a) she was in love in Dodi and wanted to make it public or (b) she was still in love with her previous lover, the doctor, and wanted to make him jealous and change his mind about not to marry her.

Whatever the truth, the show's interpretaton that it was Dodi's father arranged the paparazi was a good idea because it suited to the narrative. 

Is it a confirmed fact that she arranged those photos, or is it speculation?

Regardless of accuracy, I feel that like last season, the show is trying to have it both ways. You can’t just have Charles treating Diana like something he stepped in, then try to show him in a more sympathetic light while he’s still acting like a petulant douche, trying to one-up Diana in the media all for the sake of Camilla. Likewise, you can’t do the same with Camilla, acting like she’s somehow a victim of bad press and being overshadowed by Diana when she picked Andrew Parker Bowles over Charles in season 3 AND flat-out told Charles that the public wouldn’t sympathetic r with their affair back in season 4. 

[Roseanna]

20 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is it a confirmed fact that she arranged those photos, or is it speculation?

She didn't need to "arrange" them as she knew that there were paparazzi with longdistance lens nearby. When she chose to kiss Dodi in the place they were seen instead of suggesting that they would go to their cabin, she was either stupid or she wanted pictures about them were taken and published. 

[MadyGirl1987]

5 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

She didn't need to "arrange" them as she knew that there were paparazzi with longdistance lens nearby. When she chose to kiss Dodi in the place they were seen instead of suggesting that they would go to their cabin, she was either stupid or she wanted pictures about them were taken and published. 

I agree. She had to have known she was being watched by paparazzi. She wanted those pictures taken. She knew how to avoid detection when she wanted to.

[Roseanna]

In the 4th episode not only PM Blair were not present but the tabloids were only mentioned although they increased the public's criticism towards the BRF, and especially the Queen, for staying in Scotland, and the reason was clear: they wanted to refocus the public's anger from themselves for buying pictures from paparazzi and thereby causing them to hunt Diana even more.

As it's said here before, it was the only time when the Queen put her family, especially her grandsons, first - but the public, or some of them, wanted her to put them first and comfort them because, as the Queen so finely put it, they "feel that they had known" Diana.

Afterwards William and Harry's walking behind the coffin is severely criticized, but at the time it was practically decided (at least on William's part) with the decision about the state funeral. The public wanted to see these two motherless boys who made the most moving sight.

[MadyGirl1987]

16 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

In the 4th episode not only PM Blair were not present but the tabloids were only mentioned although they increased the public's criticism towards the BRF, and especially the Queen, for staying in Scotland, and the reason was clear: they wanted to refocus the public's anger from themselves for buying pictures from paparazzi and thereby causing them to hunt Diana even more.

As it's said here before, it was the only time when the Queen put her family, especially her grandsons, first - but the public, or some of them, wanted her to put them first and comfort them because, as the Queen so finely put it, they "feel that they had known" Diana.

Afterwards William and Harry's walking behind the coffin is severely criticized, but at the time it was practically decided (at least on William's part) with the decision about the state funeral. The public wanted to see these two motherless boys who made the most moving sight.

I agree with everything you just said. I think the Queen was right to focus on the boys. Why should she be expected to lead the public mourning for her ex-daughter in law who had publicly attacked the institution and family the Queen was the head of?

I would argue also that while the public almost certainly did have feelings of guilt(I'm American and was 10 at the time so while I remember this in the news, I can't speak to the reaction of the British public) the more I read or watch about the reaction to her death the more I see the anger against the royals as being pumped up by the press in order to deflect from the role the press had in her death. You see videos of people yelling at the news reporters things like "You killed her!" or "Why didn't you leave her alone?" and the press reports of anger against the royals seem very much like deflecting the anger to another party.

Edited November 16, 2023 by MadyGirl1987

[Snazzy Daisy]

‘The Crown’ Accused Of Fabricating Genesis Of Princess Diana & Dodi Fayed’s Fateful Romance

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[Roseanna]

About Diana's campaign against land mines: while I can understand her concern about dead and maimed civilians even after the war ended, she was politically naive, not able to differ between civil wars and defensive wars against the invasion where the mine fields were marked and only ones who were in danger were enemy soldiers.  

8 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

‘The Crown’ Accused Of Fabricating Genesis Of Princess Diana & Dodi Fayed’s Fateful Romance

The screenwriter had an obvious intent: by making Dodi's father an evil manipulator, Diana was made to look a mere victim  - although stupid. Even if she didn't give a hint to a paparazzi, she must have known that if she kissed Dodi on the deck, pictures about them could be taken.   

[Spartan Girl]

One thing I’ll say: I wonder if the show portraying them as more “friends with benefits” was actually the closest thing to the truth about their relationship. So many people romanticized them after their death because of Mohammed’s claims, but I’m pretty sure that Dodi was just a fling, regardless of whether or not he bought a ring.

[Roseanna]

Tina Brown tells in Diana Chronicles that if Diana had told the British embassy that she was in Paris, she would have got protection from the French police. She didn't use to be afraid of paparazzi as the cameras don't kill, it was Dodi and the driver who panicked. 

[Straycat80]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

One thing I’ll say: I wonder if the show portraying them as more “friends with benefits” was actually the closest thing to the truth about their relationship. So many people romanticized them after their death because of Mohammed’s claims, but I’m pretty sure that Dodi was just a fling, regardless of whether or not he bought a ring.

I think this is true. Rosa Monckton (sp?) who was Diana’s best friend at the time said she had talked to Diana at the time and she said she had no plans to marry him so I think it was just a Summer fling. 

[Spartan Girl]

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think they did a little better with Diana this season than last season. At least this season they remembered that she did charity work not just for public attention. The scenes of her goofing off and being affectionate with the boys helped too.

[Snazzy Daisy]

The Crown: Season 6 is ‘intrusive entertainment’ depicting Princess Diana’s death | Royal Insight

In this month’s episode of Royal Insight, Camilla Tominey, Associate Editor, explains how the recreation of Princess Diana’s death for entertainment purposes means it is an uncomfortable watch.

Beneath The Crown: The True Story of Diana and Dodi's Last Summer | Netflix

As dramatized in the final season of The Crown, discover the real-life story of Diana and Dodi’s blossoming relationship and their last summer.

[sugarbaker design]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

She didn't use to be afraid of paparazzi as the cameras don't kill, it was Dodi and the driver who panicked. 

The driver was also drunk, that didn't help.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think they did a little better with Diana this season than last season. At least this season they remembered that she did charity work not just for public attention. The scenes of her goofing off and being affectionate with the boys helped too.

There is nothing wrong in itself to raise public attention on issues as Diana did in Bosnia. But during her last eight weeks the trip took only three days which means she had plenty of free time. 

Her idea in the show to spend more time with her sons wasn't a solution, because they were in the boarding school and she had to divide their holidays with Charles. Besides, William was 15 years, so he was going soon to detach from his mum (we show already signs of it in the show) and he had already been groomed by the late Queen to become the king one day. 

The idea TIna Brown told in Diana Chronicles sounds promising: to make documentary films about issues she cared for - as we know, she could make a good contact with people. 

The show gives an impression that Diana lived alone without servants although she had at least as a butler Paul Burrell. 

Of course the show can't tell "all".  

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

I’m going to be nice and acknowledge that Charles really was grief-stricken and remorseful over Diana’s death IRL. But the problem, as I said before, is that the show spent too much time showing him treating her like dirt, hardly showing her any kindness, that I just couldn’t buy it, no matter how well Dominic West acted.

Maybe if they’d shown the two of them parting more amicably in their little marriage autopsy last season (since that’s how it supposedly went down in real life instead of him telling her that he’d only be happy with her out of his life) that their civil last conversation didn’t feel so out of nowhere and forced. Especially when he was so obsessed with trying to one-up Diana in the papers and spin Camilla’s image. Then maybe I wouldn’t have been rolling my eyes at Charles breaking down repeatedly.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Roseanna]

Isn't it odd that while Mou Mou's background got one episode in last season, Diana's family had been dealt only passing (her grandmother gave her some advice before Balmoral, her brother was manipulated by Martin Bashir, the maker of infamous Panorama interview). His father was only mentioned the first time in her discussion with Dodi.

Yet, her childhood was as traumatic as Charles's: born as a third daughter when his dad had long wished for a son and heir, her mom's leaving with another man and losing her children's custody, a difficult relationship with her step-mother.

Her mother is supposedly been the only one who expressed doubts about the marriage with Charles. She was been a young debutante when she married a much older man. Sadly, when Diana died, she wasn't on speaking terms with her mother. 

Her  brother had refused to give her to have a house in Althorp area. She had no country house where to spend time outside publicity, unlike Charles who had also lots of friend in whose country houses he could meet Camilla when they both were married.

Her two sisters who travelled with Charles to Paris in order to bring her body home, had ives of their own. Jane of course was married to Robert Fellowes, the Queen's Private Secretary (who was seen in the episode 4) and their loyalty was of course first to the Queen.

Charles's declaration "I have loved none but you" wasn't simply true irl. When he was single, he had other mistresses and at least one of them, Lady Tryon, was as close to him. When the situation exactly changed and she became his only mistress, we don't know.

Also, while he was hardly ever in love with Diana, that doesn't wholly exclude love. When they were in Australia, he wrote to his friends how happy they were when they could be only with each other and William. Diana herself told that they had good times and one of the best was months before Harry was born.

In the show, they went to different addresses after they returned from Australia in 1983 but, incomprehensibly, Diana tried to win her husband back after the avalanche in 1988.

[Roseanna]

@aghst asked in ep 3:

Quote

My recollection of the media reports at the time was that the paparazzi chased them and caused the driver to be reckless with tragic consequences.

But this episode suggests that because they were going back and forth between the hotel, Dodi's apartment and wherever else they had to go, the driver was drunk by the time they set out on that fateful drive.

Again, is this true or is Morgan taking license?

In any event, there didn't seem to be a big reason to drive so fast.  Those scooters would strain to keep up with the car above 50-60 MPH.

The driver was drunk and he had also used some stuff one shouldn't combine with alcohol. Also, if they had used seat belts, they hadn't died in the car crash.

Tina Brown says in Diana chronicles that the cameras don't kill and Diana wasn't afraid of them. It was Dodi and the driver who panicked and made the fatal decision to try to leave paparazzi behind.

Also, according to Brown, Diana had refused Scotland Yards's protection (save on official happening) because she had a paranoid fear to be spied on. She also could have had the French police's protection by telling the British embassy that she was in Paris. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Roseanna
changed 4 > 3

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It was Dodi and the driver who panicked and made the fatal decision to try to leave paparazzi behind.

And she knows this how?

[Absolom]

Drunk driver, speeding, and no seat belts.  The paps didn't help, but they didn't create the disaster all by themselves.

[MadyGirl1987]

26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And she knows this how?

Wasn’t there a big inquiry into what happened? I think some of the press was also arrested and tried in court so I’m assuming witness statements were taken. Her bodyguard survived so I’m sure he was questioned about the events of the night by any investigation into the crash.

To me, it was a perfect storm of a situation that multiple parties contributed to, where the removal of any one might have made things turn out differently. If the driver wasn’t under the influence and unfit to drive. If  the press hadn’t been chasing them. If Dodi and his people had better experience handling these situations. Change any of these and she may still be alive today. You can’t say one thing caused the crash, like @Absolom mentions, but you can definitely say quite a few things contributed to it.

[Spartan Girl]

This is interesting:

Mario Brenna claims The Crown is wrong: nobody hired him

While I wouldn’t necessarily trust paparazzi scumbags any more than I could throw them, I know they aren’t above passing the buck to someone who is no longer around to defend themselves. The fact that he’s saying neither Fayed nor Diana hired him is something to be considered. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

30 minutes ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Wasn’t there a big inquiry into what happened? I think some of the press was also arrested and tried in court so I’m assuming witness statements were taken. Her bodyguard survived so I’m sure he was questioned about the events of the night by any investigation into the crash.

Yes. And I'm aware of all that. But that doesn't mean they knew what was going through Diana's mind or her thoughts and feelings.

[Spartan Girl]

14 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. And I'm aware of all that. But that doesn't mean they knew what was going through Diana's mind or her thoughts and feelings.

Not to mention that the sole survivor of the car had a head injury and so his testing might not be 100 accurate. Heck nobody’s memory is always accurate.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. And I'm aware of all that. But that doesn't mean they knew what was going through Diana's mind or her thoughts and feelings.

That's Tina Brown.  Her whole thing is interviewing anyone who was "in the room when it happened" to get their take, and uses those opinions to craft her story.  A huge grain of salt is required when reading her work.  It's her editorializing other people's opinions.

[Spartan Girl]

6 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That's Tina Brown.  Her whole thing is interviewing anyone who was "in the room when it happened" to get their take, and uses those opinions to craft her story.  A huge grain of salt is required when reading her work.  It's her editorializing other people's opinions.

Ah, so basically a female version of Bob Woodward at his worst. Good to know.

[Ohiopirate02]

30 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ah, so basically a female version of Bob Woodward at his worst. Good to know.

She's entertaining, but not someone you would cite in an academic paper.

[BlackberryJam]

There is a lot that The Crown has gotten wrong in prior seasons, like re-writing Elizabeth's annus horribilus speech, but this season is just off the charts silly.

The summer before Diana died she was out there living her best life, finally free and likely happier than she had been in years. She met Mother Teresa. She auctioned off a ton of her dresses in NYC raising over 3million for charity. She went to a gala at the Tate, Gianni Versace's funeral with Elton John, and the Bosnia trip. She was building a life outside the restrictions of being part of the royal family.

The Crown showed her as a melancholy drip. 

I mean, I was no big fan of the woman, but The Crown never let her stop being Miserable Diana.

Ugh. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

 

The summer before Diana died she was out there living her best life, finally free and likely happier than she had been in years. She met Mother Teresa. She auctioned off a ton of her dresses in NYC raising over 3million for charity. She went to a gala at the Tate, Gianni Versace's funeral with Elton John, and the Bosnia trip. She was building a life outside the restrictions of being part of the royal family.

The Crown showed her as a melancholy drip. 

 

Yeah, I would have really enjoyed seeing Diana happy more, and not just with the boys. Still, the happy moments we had with her and the boys singing in the car, playing Uno, goofing off on the boat, watching Jumanji were all great. I even kind of liked her and Dodi flirting and making out on the boat because she was actually having a good time.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, I would have really enjoyed seeing Diana happy more, and not just with the boys. Still, the happy moments we had with her and the boys singing in the car, playing Uno, goofing off on the boat, watching Jumanji were all great. I even kind of liked her and Dodi flirting and making out on the boat because she was actually having a good time.

I wanted more of Diana and the boys playing Uno Attack (only because I know William would be like my older brother with this game. I wanted to see him pitch a fit when the device spat out 8 cards at him).  I didn't think that game was commercially available in 1997, so I looked it up, and it didn't release until sometime in 1998.  Prop error, or is there evidence that the Princes were gifted a prototype?

[Shrek]

People need to stop treating it like it's a documentary, it's not.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Shrek

[MMEButterfly]

5 hours ago, Shrek said:

People need to stop treating it like it's a documentary, it's not.

I agree, however they would have had a better story if they had focused upon the rather fabulous year Diana was actually having--more poignant, indeed. 

[BlackberryJam]

5 hours ago, Shrek said:

People need to stop treating it like it's a documentary, it's not.

I don’t know anyone who thinks it’s a documentary. As a fictional account, by ignoring the actual events, it results in a thin and dull narrative. It doesn’t have to be a documentary to be good. It does have to create interesting and full characters acting in reasonable and understandable ways. The season’s one-note Diana, weak-willed Dodi and mustache-twirling MouMou were one dimensional and their actions didn’t make sense.

[nora1992]

9 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

She's entertaining, but not someone you would cite in an academic paper.

I grade the papers of college students.  Despite all the information literacy and lateral reading workshops, Tina Brown and other editorial authors are treated as authorities when such views align with whatever point the student is presenting.  I get the sinking feeling that some of these students consider The Crown non-fiction.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm such a masochist. I went back to watch The Queen, and during the real funeral services, was that the real Mohamed Al-Fayed I saw?

So the fiction of part four just irritates me even further.

I love Helen Mirren, but it seemed at the end of that movie, when Sheen's Tony Blair goes to see her, and he greets her, she pulls her hand away as if, "ew, cooties! don't touch me" manner. Which struck me as very...odd.

I know he played the Duke of Windsor, in the show, but I really wish Alex Dennings had played Charles this last season. Just because. And Sheen to have reprised his role from the movie to play Tony Blair.

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm such a masochist. I went back to watch The Queen, and during the real funeral services, was that the real Mohamed Al-Fayed I saw?

So the fiction of part four just irritates me even further.

I love Helen Mirren, but it seemed at the end of that movie, when Sheen's Tony Blair goes to see her, and he greets her, she pulls her hand away as if, "ew, cooties! don't touch me" manner. Which struck me as very...odd.

I know he played the Duke of Windsor, in the show, but I really wish Alex Dennings had played Charles this last season. Just because. And Sheen to have reprised his role from the movie to play Tony Blair.

I’m pretty sure the real royal family actually did send condolences to Mohamed, or flowers or something, so yeah, that particular fictionalization in The Crown felt quite unnecessary.

[AZChristian]

14 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm such a masochist. I went back to watch The Queen, and during the real funeral services, was that the real Mohamed Al-Fayed I saw?

--------------

I know he played the Duke of Windsor, in the show, but I really wish Alex Dennings had played Charles this last season. 

If I'm understanding your question correctly, Mohammed Al-Fayed DID attend Diana's funeral.

--------------

I agree that Alex Jennings would have made a better Charles in seasons 5 and 6.  And Charles Dance would have been perfect for Prince Philip, but he had already played Lord Mountbatten in The Crown.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

If I'm understanding your question correctly, Mohammed Al-Fayed DID attend Diana's funeral.

Yes, that was my question, if it wasn't clear.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

A few thoughts:

1) Henri Paul was driving drunk, but that's because the drive back was a last-minute deal. He thought he was off for the night, so he was boozing and drugging it up. This is somewhat accurately portrayed in the ep, although it's toned down.

2) Diana's death was at least partly caused by the Paris paramedics. Paramedics in France are different than paramedics in the US. In the US, paramedics are basically taught to "Scoop and Run": the idea is to get the person to the Emergency Room as fast as possible. In France, ambulances are almost like mini ERs in and of themselves. They have a lot of equipment that US ambulances don't have, and the emphasis is on stabilizing the patient before driving them anywhere. Unfortunately, not all tests can be done in the field, including the tests for internal bleeding that could potentially have saved Diana's life. (NOTE: This is not meant as a condemnation of the French system of emergency medicine. I'm just pointing out that in this one specific situation, it was not optimal.)

3) A book I read called The Day Diana Died said when the Queen initially refused to give a televised address, Charles declared that he'd go on TV instead. When she refused to allow it, he actually threatened to abdicate his role as Prince of Wales and Heir Apparent, then make a televised address (as he'd be a private citizen and she'd be be powerless to stop him). That was when she backed down and agreed to deliver it herself.

4) Charles really felt Diana's loss: while he'd arguably never loved her, he had always liked her and felt bad that she'd been caught up in the middle of an institution she didn't understand while married to a man who loved someone else entirely. He had come to realize how much of their split was really his fault and how ill-suited she was for royal life.

5) Mohammed Al-Fayed went to his grave insisting that not only were Diana and Dodi to be wed, the entire accident was really a MI6 operation to ensure an Arab wouldn't be the future King's stepfather, with Diana and Dodi being casualties.

6) As for whether Diana and Dodi were going to get married, who knows? I've read accounts saying she was serious about it, and I've read other accounts saying she considered it a fling. I'm inclined to believe the latter, but the only two people who know for sure have been dead a long time.

[Shrek]

2 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

A few thoughts:

1) Henri Paul was driving drunk, but that's because the drive back was a last-minute deal. He thought he was off for the night, so he was boozing and drugging it up. This is somewhat accurately portrayed in the ep, although it's toned down.

2) Diana's death was at least partly caused by the Paris paramedics. Paramedics in France are different than paramedics in the US. In the US, paramedics are basically taught to "Scoop and Run": the idea is to get the person to the Emergency Room as fast as possible. In France, ambulances are almost like mini ERs in and of themselves. They have a lot of equipment that US ambulances don't have, and the emphasis is on stabilizing the patient before driving them anywhere. Unfortunately, not all tests can be done in the field, including the tests for internal bleeding that could potentially have saved Diana's life. (NOTE: This is not meant as a condemnation of the French system of emergency medicine. I'm just pointing out that in this one specific situation, it was not optimal.)

3) A book I read called The Day Diana Died said when the Queen initially refused to give a televised address, Charles declared that he'd go on TV instead. When she refused to allow it, he actually threatened to abdicate his role as Prince of Wales and Heir Apparent, then make a televised address (as he'd be a private citizen and she'd be be powerless to stop him). That was when she backed down and agreed to deliver it herself.

4) Charles really felt Diana's loss: while he'd arguably never loved her, he had always liked her and felt bad that she'd been caught up in the middle of an institution she didn't understand while married to a man who loved someone else entirely. He had come to realize how much of their split was really his fault and how ill-suited she was for royal life.

5) Mohammed Al-Fayed went to his grave insisting that not only were Diana and Dodi to be wed, the entire accident was really a MI6 operation to ensure an Arab wouldn't be the future King's stepfather, with Diana and Dodi being casualties.

6) As for whether Diana and Dodi were going to get married, who knows? I've read accounts saying she was serious about it, and I've read other accounts saying she considered it a fling. I'm inclined to believe the latter, but the only two people who know for sure have been dead a long time.

Pie in the sky made up shit by people wanting to sell books from point 3 onward. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

3 minutes ago, Shrek said:

Pie in the sky made up shit by people wanting to sell books from point 3 onward. 

And your evidence for that assertion is...?

[Shrek]

2 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

And your evidence for that assertion is...?

My evidence is that they were selling books & nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. 

I don't know the truth & neither do people looking to tell their mostly made up stories.

Point 3 is a book you read where someone said, not proof.

Point 4 I have never heard before but nobody knows knows what he was thinking, unless he actually said it himself.

Point 5 I'll give you this one as he never shut up about it being a conspiracy despite it being a ridiculous idea.

Point 6 As you yourself said, who knows, certainly not you or I but I personally doubt they were talking about marriage already.  

Show me your evidence now (not opinion) or we can just agree to disagree.  

[Roseanna]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:06 PM, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

1) Henri Paul was driving drunk, but that's because the drive back was a last-minute deal. He thought he was off for the night, so he was boozing and drugging it up. This is somewhat accurately portrayed in the ep, although it's toned down.

If you are supposed to drive in the moning, you can't drink in the evening, either.

On 11/22/2023 at 3:06 PM, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

2) Diana's death was at least partly caused by the Paris paramedics. Paramedics in France are different than paramedics in the US. In the US, paramedics are basically taught to "Scoop and Run": the idea is to get the person to the Emergency Room as fast as possible. In France, ambulances are almost like mini ERs in and of themselves. They have a lot of equipment that US ambulances don't have, and the emphasis is on stabilizing the patient before driving them anywhere. Unfortunately, not all tests can be done in the field, including the tests for internal bleeding that could potentially have saved Diana's life. (NOTE: This is not meant as a condemnation of the French system of emergency medicine. I'm just pointing out that in this one specific situation, it was not optimal.)

If Diana had used her seat belt, she wouldn't have died.

On 11/22/2023 at 3:06 PM, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

5) Mohammed Al-Fayed went to his grave insisting that not only were Diana and Dodi to be wed, the entire accident was really a MI6 operation to ensure an Arab wouldn't be the future King's stepfather, with Diana and Dodi being casualties.

People often get such ideas when they are grieving and can't accept that accidents happpen. 

I don't deny that also Western secret services can commit assassinations but I don't believe that preventing an Atab from becoming the future King's stepfather would be a reason enough for the British Government - the BRF could command it. And nobody had an inkling that Diana would marry Dodi which was rather a consolation fantasy to Al-Fayed.

Before all, a conspiracy would have demanded dozens of people (including the French police and hospital staff) to keep silent.     

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

If you are supposed to drive in the moning, you can't drink in the evening, either.

Come again? I know this is true for pilots, but drivers? I disagree. There were times in my life where I drank and got drunk, but was perfectly okay to drive the next morning.

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

If Diana had used her seat belt, she wouldn't have died

We don’t know that. Yes, wearing a seatbelt might have made the difference. People who wear seatbelts still die in car accidents.

I guess I’m very uncomfortable with blaming Diana for her accident that killed her. A lot of factors were involved.

[dubbel zout]

The bodyguard was wearing a seatbelt, and while he survived, his injuries were severe. Diana might not have been killed, but it's impossible to say what the aftermath would have been if she'd had her seatbelt on.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

The bodyguard was wearing a seatbelt, and while he survived, his injuries were severe. Diana might not have been killed, but it's impossible to say what the aftermath would have been if she'd had her seatbelt on.

Oh God, yeah. Like what if she’d been paralyzed or brain damaged? That would have been awful.

[sistermagpie]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:10 PM, Shrek said:

Pie in the sky made up shit by people wanting to sell books from point 3 onward. 

I have to agree. I mean, Charles is threatening to abdicate now? No he wasn't.

On 11/22/2023 at 4:29 PM, Shrek said:

Point 5 I'll give you this one as he never shut up about it being a conspiracy despite it being a ridiculous idea.

 

For me, this will always be the best answer to that conspiracy theory:

 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Yeah, that narrative that somehow Diana was to blame for for unleashing the force of the media on her is so gross. From the jump, they swarmed all over her. From. The. Jump. When she was working at the nursery school in 1980, they tricked her into posing with the sun against her, thereby highlighting her legs in that thin skirt she was wearing--which was a major faux pas at the time. For a brief time during her marriage she was able to manage the force of the press--mainly because they preferred her to Charles--but at soon as they divorced it was literally open season on her. The infamous closeup shots of her crotch at the gym. (I'm not going to post a link but they readily available.) Disgusting. 

She never had a chance.

Those gym pictures were from a hidden camera the gym owner placed inside his facility.  He then sold them to whatever tabloid.  Also, when Diana was still dating Charles, an enterprising photographer figured out which flat Diana lived in and rented out the flat opposite.  He then used his camera to catch Diana in her kitchen.  She wasn't even safe in her own home, and soon after those pictures were released she moved into one of the palaces for extra protection.  Philip's "shit or get off the pot" letter to Charles was because of the lengths the press was willing to go breaching Diana's privacy.

[Lorna Mae]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:51 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wanted more of Diana and the boys playing Uno Attack...I didn't think that game was commercially available in 1997, so I looked it up, and it didn't release until sometime in 1998.  Prop error, or is there evidence that the Princes were gifted a prototype?

Similarly, I recognized the book Harry was reading: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Except, that was a paperback, and PS had only had its first hardcover release in late June of 1997. So even a hardcover would not have had time to get dog-eared, as that copy was. (Also, people may forget that HP was not huge right away. It was during the run-up to Goblet of Fire that people were binging the first three books, and the movies were getting underway. So late 1999 and 2000 for the start of Pottermania.) 

But hey, how could they not sneak HP in there? Especially in light of Prince Harry's nickname at Eton. 🤫 And as far as 1990s pop culture, I've always felt a bit sad that Diana never got to see Titanic. I bet she would have loved it, both for the spectacle, and for identifying with Rose. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Lorna Mae