S04.E01: Glasnost

[tessaray]

Release Date: November 10, 2023

Description:  Series is expected to time jump to the early 2000s. 

[Anduin]

I have to laugh at Margo discovering the grass isn't greener on this side. Is she going to double defect?

This show does love an accident to shuffle everything up.

At this point, can Ed come down even if he wants to? I'm not sure he can.

Only guest starring Jodi Balfour? I have a bit of a crush on her, I want to see more Ellen! Have her go back into space too!

[CarpeFelis]

I thought it a little odd that in this alternate history where the Russians beat us to the moon, so much was changed in the west but in 2003 Russia everything appeared to be old but still in use, like Margo’s nearly antique looking alarm clock and very small TV, and most of the cars seemed to be ‘60s or ‘70s relics.

One thing that didn’t change in the west surprised me: I would have thought smartphones would have appeared at least a few years earlier than 2007, but apparently not.

At the birthday party it took me a bit to realize the woman Danielle was talking to was Danny’s wife and not Ellen’s. She looked so much like Pam. Speaking of Danielle, she seems to have aged a lot better than Margo, which points to medical care in Russia being either behind the times or largely unavailable since Margo seems to have a lot of aches and pains that Danielle does not.

Not caring much about Miles, at least not yet. And my husband pointed out that there’s no way his lie about college wouldn’t have been caught on a background check. He was applying for a position where oil rig experience was the most important qualification. Why would a degree even matter? I get that he was desperate for a job, but lying on an application is a very dumb move. I hope this doesn’t foreshadow him doing something fatally stupid on Mars.

Aleida seems to have PTSD from the bombing, which makes sense. But walking off the job without telling anyone why and then staying home and ignoring calls from NASA is probably going to get her fired. And why hasn’t she gotten any treatment?

Edited November 10, 2023 by CarpeFelis
typo

[marinw]

20 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of Danielle, she seems to have aged a lot better than Margo, which points to medical care in Russia being either behind the times or largely unavailable since Margo seems to have a lot of aches and pains that Danielle does not.

I agree that Danielle looks great. Poor Margo, what is going on with her health? Ditto for Ed. There seems to be weed on Mars, or at least something smokable.

 

20 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I thought it a little odd that in this alternate history where the Russians beat us to the moon, so much was changed in the west but in 2003 Russia everything appeared to be old but still in use, like Margo’s nearly antique looking alarm clock and very small TV, and most of the cars seemed to be ‘60s or ‘70s relics.

 

Yes, the opening news recap said that Moscow is now looking pretty decadent, like New York City or Dubai.

It's always seems to be something simple that causes a disaster, like cables coming loose.

It seems like 9/11 didn't happen in this timeline.  I think one of the biggest differences going forward is that climate change is not a significant thing.. This issue has been part of our reality for so long it's hard to imagine a 21st Century without that existential threat.

 

On 11/10/2023 at 5:53 AM, Anduin said:

At this point, can Ed come down even if he wants to? I'm not sure he can.

 

Yes, given his age and all those years in lower Mars gravity returning to Earth would be difficult. I'm surprised that Mars Baby seems healthy, 

Edited November 11, 2023 by marinw

[txhorns79]

11 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Aleida seems to have PTSD from the bombing, which makes sense. But walking off the job without telling anyone why and then staying home and ignoring calls from NASA is probably going to get her fired. And why hasn’t she gotten any treatment?

Having PTSD makes sense, but hasn't it been nearly a decade since the bombing?  I have to believe this isn't the first time she's freaked out so badly, and it's surprising they wouldn't have insisted on therapy by this point.

1 hour ago, marinw said:

I agree that Danielle looks great. Poor Margo, what is going on with her health? Ditto for Ed. There seems to be weed on Mars, or at least something smokable.

Danielle looks amazing for someone in her 70s.  Ed looks terrible.  Margo looks bad, but I presume that's because Soviet medicine is behind the times and she's just not getting the care she needs. 

On the positive side, Olga for President!  I appreciate any character who is unimpressed by Ed and calls him out for what he is. 

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

I think one of the biggest differences going forward is that climate change is not a significant thing.. This issue has been part of our reality for so long it's hard to imagine a 21st Century without that existential threat.

Since Miles said he was out of a job because all the oil rigs were shut down, in this version of history something seems to have been done about it.

[PurpleTentacle]

The news compilation in the beginning is always interesting. Guess Ellen coming out as a lesbian wasn't a big deal anymore after the president had already done the same. Hilldog divorced her cheating husband after there was no power in it for her anymore, seems about right. I wonder why Weinstein got outed as a rapist sooner? More rapid social progress making it easier for victims to come foreward? Sadly Kubrick always dies in 99.

With all the hints they are really trying to make us think that the Mars crew threw Danny out of an airlock between seasons or he killed himself in isolation, don't they? But them not outright saying it makes me think that this is a red herring and they actually had him committed when they returned to earth.

They are doing Armageddon now? No way this can go wrong!

Stupid bird feeding lady. It's always winter in Moscow on TV. There is no spring. Doesn't she know that? It was winter when Margot got to Moscow and it still is winter 7 years later.

On 11/10/2023 at 10:53 AM, Anduin said:

I have to laugh at Margo discovering the grass isn't greener on this side. Is she going to double defect?

Margot didn't have much of a choice. She put herself into a situation that would have gotten her decades of prison in the US. I still think her getting there was stupid. If she had come clean early enough, she could have worked out a sweet deal and probably even kept her position, but I guess sometimes characters are just dumbasses (although I still think Margot of all people would have been more logical).

Defecting was always going to be a step down for her. You can't exactly step up from being the director of NASA, when it comes to the space race, but it was her only option.

In the news compilation we were given hints that the soviet union has now imbraced capitalism, so I assume the bird feeding lady is trying to recruit her for a private company.

I still think it's dumb and unrealistic, that the russian space agency wouldn't use Margot as much as possible. Yes, there are of course petty grievances, as everywhere, but the russians aren't dumb. They wouldn't leave such an asset untapped. Especially since they wouldn't have to give her credit. She is dead afterall. There are only upsides of having her work problems in a dark basement room for them.

19 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I thought it a little odd that in this alternate history where the Russians beat us to the moon, so much was changed in the west but in 2003 Russia everything appeared to be old but still in use, like Margo’s nearly antique looking alarm clock and very small TV, and most of the cars seemed to be ‘60s or ‘70s relics.

I think this shows that Margot can't get a real job and is dirt poor, probably kept on a very low stipend by the soviet government. She doesn't have a car either and had to take 5 different modes of public transport to get to the space agency (though as a german, that didn't seem like as much of a horror as the writers seemed to want to make it out to be to americans).

In the news compilation it did seem like russia was rapidly modernising. So my conclusion is that Margot just can't afford it.

I was a bit miffed that the buses margot was traveling on weren't electric though. The FAM-world switched to mostly electric back in season 3. Public buses are about the first things that get electrified, since it just makes economic sense. With the much lower production, gas would likely be extremely expensive now, too. The writers used to put more care into the world building.

19 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

One thing that didn’t change in the west surprised me: I would have thought smartphones would have appeared at least a few years earlier than 2007, but apparently not.

They have tablets, but seemingly not the phones, which is indeed weird.

19 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Not caring much about Miles, at least not yet. And my husband pointed out that there’s no way his lie about college wouldn’t have been caught on a background check. He was applying for a position where oil rig experience was the most important qualification. Why would a degree even matter? I get that he was desperate for a job, but lying on an application is a very dumb move. I hope this doesn’t foreshadow him doing something fatally stupid on Mars.

Agreed, that was all kinds of ridiculous. I assume that lie will come up later and be milked for drama, but I really could have done without it. There is going to be enough space drama without ridiculous contrivances. He would have never gotten that job with that obvious lie on his application.

19 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Aleida seems to have PTSD from the bombing, which makes sense. But walking off the job without telling anyone why and then staying home and ignoring calls from NASA is probably going to get her fired. And why hasn’t she gotten any treatment?

Considering all the rapid social progress we were shown in the news compilation, you'd think that mental health awareness would also be at least where it is now in our world and that she would have been in therapy for years at this point. She has a well paying job. There is no reason for her not to be.

That doesn't necessarily mean she would be "healed" or anything, but it should mean that she would be able to handle these episodes better.

9 hours ago, marinw said:

It seems like 9/11 didn't happen in this timeline.

Well the Saudis, who financed 9/11 in our world (which the US forgave immediatly, because they have oil and invaded unrelated countries instead), seemed to get overthrown in the FAM-world, as shown in the news compilation. Which I guess was a "subtle hint" as to why 9/11 didn't happen in the FAM-world.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Danielle looks amazing for someone in her 70s.  Ed looks terrible.  Margo looks bad, but I presume that's because Soviet medicine is behind the times and she's just not getting the care she needs. 

Black don't crack. (Also makeup departments don't seem to know how to age up black people well)

Ed does look terrible.

Margot just looks like you'd expect somebody in their 60s or 70s to look. She seems to have some ailments that could be better taken care off, but looks wise she's about what you'd expect, or even on the better side.

2 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Since Miles said he was out of a job because all the oil rigs were shut down, in this version of history something seems to have been done about it.

They had it in the news compilation at the beginning of season 3 that climate change basically wasn't a thing in this world, since cheap nuclear fusion was displacing oil and gas everywhere. I thought that was a bit of a stretch even back then. Getting nuclear fusion to be cheap, especially when you have to ferry helium 3 from the moon for it, seems unrealistic. I would have thought it more realistic, that rapid advancements in solar panels and battery technology, due to NASAs need for them on space missions and their massively increased funding, had been the reason for climate change not happening, as we can see currently in our world what cheap solar and batteries can do, but oh well.

Later in the season oil and gas workers having lost their jobs became a big plot point. Remember that terrorist group, that bombed NASA? That was their reason.

[marinw]

6 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Since Miles said he was out of a job because all the oil rigs were shut down, in this version of history something seems to have been done about it.

Gore won the 2000 election, and if FAM Gore is like our Gore he will be much more into renewable energy than Bush.

Humanity is still all about resource extraction. I see Happy Valley as an analogy for Alberta in the 00's with the promise of resource jobs attracting lots of laid-off workers from all over.

Edited November 11, 2023 by marinw

[Haleth]

52 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

With all the hints they are really trying to make us think that the Mars crew threw Danny out of an airlock between seasons or he killed himself in isolation, don't they? But them not outright saying it makes me think that this is a red herring and they actually had him committed when they returned to earth.

I thought I had missed something.  They didn't say what happened to Danny?  I did see the bomber kid ended up in prison.

59 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Later in the season oil and gas workers having lost their jobs became a big plot point. Remember that terrorist group, that bombed NASA? That was their reason.

Ooh, that's right.  Maybe the world's lower dependence on oil also contributed to the avoidance of 9/11?

I thought it was a good set up to the new season.  It's always interesting to see how much technology progressed under alternate circumstances.  Poor Margo.  She should seek out Martha from The Americans and raise a glass of vodka to stupid mistakes.  I had no idea who that was Danielle was talking to at the birthday party.  Danny's wife?  I barely remember he had a wife.  

[PurpleTentacle]

5 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I thought I had missed something.  They didn't say what happened to Danny?

They left him at the north korean landing site at the end of last season, because he was too unstable to have him with them in that small habitat, if I remember correctly and I think he was contemplating suicide, last we saw him. So that is the implication at the moment. But again, until confirmed I'm going with red herring.

13 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I did see the bomber kid ended up in prison.

Not sure if he went to prison. He didn't know what the others were planning. All the news said is that he struck a plea bargain and testified against the others. If the DA really wanted to they could probably get him on some conspiracy to commit charges, but would they really want to? He is the son of two tragic astronaut heroes, who was lead astray, but tried to do the right thing as soon as he found out what was really going on. I don't think that would play great in the press.

7 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Ooh, that's right.  Maybe the world's lower dependence on oil also contributed to the avoidance of 9/11?

Well, I'm still going with the Saudis not being able to finance it from exile. Otherwise it seems weird that they specifically put that in the news compilation.

I guess you could say that there are indirect ties, in that they lost power due to oil being worth much less.

10 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Danny's wife?  I barely remember he had a wife.  

I think so. I barely remember her either.

[marinw]

So even though the FAM verse had President Wilson from ‘92 to ‘00 they still got a Bush/Gore matchup in ‘00 albeit with a different result. So if this season goes until ‘08 will FAM get Obama vs McCain?

Edited November 11, 2023 by marinw

[Cramps]

A  few. observations: 

1. Aleida seems to have been demoted. By now she should be running the agency, or at least still be running the control room. But she’s now back to working a control desk. I assume this is tied to the PTSD and the loss of Margot. 
 

2. The North Korean astronaut’s gun was buried in the ground near his ship last season, with a little marker sticking up. I assume Danny used it to kill himself, but as suggested above, this might just be a red herring.

I didn’t like the whole Danny’s obsession with Karen story last season. Although I miss her, I won’t miss that. (Still not buying that Karen from season one became a giant mogul/ceo of a scientific company by season three).

3. Isn’t Ed older than Danielle and Margot? That might explain some of the differences in their appearances. 

4. I’m most interested in seeing how Margot’s storyline plays out. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Cramps

[marinw]

So I gather Kelly is now a SAHM. There’s nothing wrong with that except that she looks sad and bored. That may mostly be due to the hovering of Space Baby’s paternal grandmother.

[ahisma]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

Danny's wife?  I barely remember he had a wife. 

She was the super religious young woman who dressed like a ‘60s housewife. It was their wedding in space when the orbital hotel had that big blowout and was shut down until it was bought and repurposed to go to Mars. 

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, marinw said:

So even though the FAM verse had President Wilson from ‘92 to ‘00 they still got a Bush/Gore matchup in ‘00 albeit with a different result. So if this season goes until ‘08 will FAM get Obama vs McCain?

They also had a different Bush running!  Ellen's VP was George HW Bush and he ran in 2000.  I'd be curious if Obama even becomes a Senator in this reality. 

6 hours ago, Cramps said:

3. Isn’t Ed older than Danielle and Margot? That might explain some of the differences in their appearances. 

You may be right.  I know Ed is in his 70s, or close to it.  I think Danielle is in her 60s, so my saying she was in her 70s was likely wrong.  Or maybe she just looks great because she is the most well adjusted, pleasant character on the show.  I'm not sure if they ever established Margot's age, but she was probably in her late 20s/early 30s in the first season, so add about 30 or so years to that and living in an environment that wasn't conducive to her health.  My guess was that she probably was injured in the NASA bombing, the Soviets spirited her out in the chaos, but due to limits in Soviet medicine, she didn't heal correctly, leaving her with the limp and pain.

11 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Well the Saudis, who financed 9/11 in our world (which the US forgave immediatly, because they have oil and invaded unrelated countries instead), seemed to get overthrown in the FAM-world, as shown in the news compilation. Which I guess was a "subtle hint" as to why 9/11 didn't happen in the FAM-world.

I remember from the news round up in Season 2 that the Soviets never invaded Afghanistan, so that would have dramatically changed the outcome for that country and world politics. 

[Haleth]

24 minutes ago, ahisma said:

She was the super religious young woman who dressed like a ‘60s housewife. It was their wedding in space when the orbital hotel had that big blowout and was shut down until it was bought and repurposed to go to Mars. 

Oh, duh, right. The wedding in space.  

[theartandsound]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:37 AM, CarpeFelis said:

Aleida seems to have PTSD from the bombing, which makes sense. But walking off the job without telling anyone why and then staying home and ignoring calls from NASA is probably going to get her fired. And why hasn’t she gotten any treatment?

10 hours ago, Cramps said:

A  few. observations: 

1. Aleida seems to have been demoted. By now she should be running the agency, or at least still be running the control room. But she’s now back to working a control desk. I assume this is tied to the PTSD and the loss of Margot.

I feel so bad for her. She also seems to have gotten a demotion because she was a Flight Director for the first Mars mission in S3, and now she seems to be just the Thrust controller. I wonder what happened and if she was a fall person for her designs ending up on the Soviet Mars spacecraft.

Edited November 12, 2023 by theartandsound

[theartandsound]

And apparently in this universe, baseball worked out pretty well for Michael Jordan, lol.

[CarpeFelis]

18 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Margot just looks like you'd expect somebody in their 60s or 70s to look. She seems to have some ailments that could be better taken care off, but looks wise she's about what you'd expect, or even on the better side.

Closer to 80, maybe. I’ll be 66 next month and don’t look or move anything like Margo does, and my friends in their 60s and 70s don’t either.

[marinw]

The news clips also mentioned that Bill and Hilary Clinton get divorced. Will this make Hilary more or less likely to run for the Democratic ticket in ‘08?

Edited November 12, 2023 by marinw

[PurpleTentacle]

9 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Closer to 80, maybe. I’ll be 66 next month and don’t look or move anything like Margo does, and my friends in their 60s and 70s don’t either.

Like I said, the extra ailments are there, but those could be injuries from the explosion she was in.

Looks-wise you and your friends have either found the fountain of youth or you are getting distracted by the fact the Margot isn't dyeing her hair and isn't wearing makeup (or at least the makeup department put makeup on her, to make it look like she is a woman in her 60s or 70s, who isn't wearing makeup and put a white wig on her).

I predict that once she has that high paying private job, she'll get the medical care she needs, put some colour on her face and hair and suddenly look 10 years younger.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, marinw said:

The news clips also mentioned that Bill and Hilary Clinton get divorced. Will this make Hilary more or less likely to run for the Democratic ticket in ‘08?

Bill was never President in this reality.  It's possible Hillary chose not to pursue politics after she left him. 

 

19 hours ago, theartandsound said:

I feel so bad for her. She also seems to have gotten a demotion because she was a Flight Director for the first Mars mission in S3, and now she seems to be just the Thrust controller. I wonder what happened and if she was a fall person for her designs ending up on the Soviet Mars spacecraft.

My guess, if her erratic behavior this episode was any indication, that she's no longer seen as reliable and thus, she is in a position that requires less responsibility. 

[marinw]

I wonder why Margo bothers setting her alarm. Maybe to maintain a sense or control and discipline? Or to get to the bakery before they run out of her favourite pastry. Priorities!

Edited November 13, 2023 by marinw

[CarpeFelis]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:51 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

Looks-wise you and your friends have either found the fountain of youth or you are getting distracted by the fact the Margot isn't dyeing her hair and isn't wearing makeup (or at least the makeup department put makeup on her, to make it look like she is a woman in her 60s or 70s, who isn't wearing makeup and put a white wig on her).

People in their 60s today generally don’t look as old as people that age did a generation ago. But as for me, mostly I’ve stayed out of the sun.

ETA since this is still really, really bugging me: This is a quote from a review of The Golden Bachelor, and what younger reviewers are getting wrong about it, written by a 68-year-old woman (emphasis mine):

Quote

When Amanda Hess in the New York Times complains, “One of the women did this age-play striptease [in her limo exit on Night 1] involving an ‘old’ wig and dress, as if to say, Don’t worry, I’m not like those other old people!” it’s clear to me that she’s misreading the bit. Leslie Fhima’s old-age drag wasn’t meant to disparage the other “old people” of her generation. It meant, “For Christ’s sake, I’m not that old. None of us are.”

…

As much as I’m enjoying the show, it’s jarring to feel patronized—cooed over—by the people covering it (these old people are so adorable!), and it’s even more infuriating to be told that these old people aren’t the right old people, the ones who accurately represent those their age. All the women on the show are recognizable variations of women my age, to me. I take daily ballet classes with women in their 60s and 70s. Not one of us dresses “our age.” (What the hell does that mean, anyway? And why is it younger women who are telling us that?) Sure, the women on The Golden Bachelor are mostly “tight and toned.” Everyone on reality TV is unrealistically good-looking. Why should those my age be the exception? Why should the cast offer “wisdom and respite” without glamour?

And for the record: Just like the Golden women, my friends in their 60s and 70s get up and dance like crazy at parties when music we like comes on. (And the music we like goes well beyond Motown, OK?)

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by CarpeFelis

[marinw]

In addition to Canada, another nation I'm interested in finding out about is North Korea. If they are active participants on Mars, the FAM NK can't be the same as the isolated, repressive  "Hermit Kingdom" of our own timeline. I think the FAM NK is like Russia, claiming to be totally Communist but also with more than a little capitalism creeping in. I woulds like to think that NK will go the route of Norway with oil in our timeline and re-invest the Mars wealth into making the overall country better. But i doubt it.

[Mr. R0b0t]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

In addition to Canada, another nation I'm interested in finding out about is North Korea. If they are active participants on Mars, the FAM NK can't be the same as the isolated, repressive  "Hermit Kingdom" of our own timeline. I think the FAM NK is like Russia, claiming to be totally Communist but also with more than a little capitalism creeping in. I woulds like to think that NK will go the route of Norway with oil in our timeline and re-invest the Mars wealth into making the overall country better. But i doubt it.

I found that brief scene showing NK giving a jubilant parade with smiling faces simply bizarre given the reality we live in.

[PurpleTentacle]

11 hours ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

I found that brief scene showing NK giving a jubilant parade with smiling faces simply bizarre given the reality we live in.

That's about how parades look in NK now.

I mean you better simle when they point a camera at you, or else...

[whiporee]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:30 PM, theartandsound said:

And apparently in this universe, baseball worked out pretty well for Michael Jordan, lol.

I think they made a change in the last one, too, where Jordan was drafted by the Blazers and led them to a few titles before switching to baseball. 

[theartandsound]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:40 PM, whiporee said:

I think they made a change in the last one, too, where Jordan was drafted by the Blazers and led them to a few titles before switching to baseball. 

In this universe, I'd imagine the Air Jordan may never have been created, and thus Nike may still be a niche company and not the global brand it is here.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Poor Aleida. There's never a good time to have a panic attack.

Bet Miles' wife will end up pregnant from that bon voyage sex. (I just found out the actor playing Miles is English. He does a decent generic American southern accent. A lot of Brits overexaggerate the drawl, IMO.)

There was a throwaway line about Howard Stern. He's still on the air in this timeline? That's hilarious.

So does Ed have Parkinson's? It's funny to me how they've tried to make him looked bedraggled. Sorry, producers of For All Mankind; Joel Kinnaman's foine remains undefeated.

Quote

It seems like 9/11 didn't happen in this timeline.

Spumors say it'll happen in Russia instead of the US, and the Saudis won't be behind it. We'll see, I guess.

[transitfan]

On 11/25/2023 at 5:45 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Poor Aleida. There's never a good time to have a panic attack.

Bet Miles' wife will end up pregnant from that bon voyage sex. (I just found out the actor playing Miles is English. He does a decent generic American southern accent. A lot of Brits overexaggerate the drawl, IMO.)

There was a throwaway line about Howard Stern. He's still on the air in this timeline? That's hilarious.

So does Ed have Parkinson's? It's funny to me how they've tried to make him looked bedraggled. Sorry, producers of For All Mankind; Joel Kinnaman's foine remains undefeated.

Spumors say it'll happen in Russia instead of the US, and the Saudis won't be behind it. We'll see, I guess.

Wonder in the FAM timeline if Howard is on SiriusXM or still syndicated on “terrestrial” radio (I assume that SiriusXM itself is still a thing, or maybe I shouldn’t?)

[wmdekooning]

On 11/10/2023 at 8:38 PM, marinw said:

Yes, given (Ed’s) age and all those years in lower Mars gravity returning to Earth would be difficult

I believe his age was given in previous seasons, but how the FRAK aul’ is Ed this season?!
 

He looks like he’s barely able this season, and apparently he might be. Still the same fly by the seat of his pants jackazz who feels the rules don’t apply to him…

[PurpleTentacle]

20 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

I believe his age was given in previous seasons, but how the FRAK aul’ is Ed this season?!

72

[wmdekooning]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:00 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

72

Then they are giving Joel Kinnaman some poor aul’ age makeup.

 I thought Ed was supposed to be closer to 80 or even aulder. Maybe it’s his crotchety attitude…

[marinw]

4 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

Then they are giving Joel Kinnaman some poor aul’ age makeup.

Joel Kinnaman is 44 and looks very, very good! It's jarring to see him in other roles or in photos of him IRL.

Edited December 18, 2023 by marinw

[vibeology]

He's lived a hard 72 years and who even knows what aging would look like if you spent as much time in space, on the moon and then on Mars like Ed has. 

[Black Knight]

On 11/11/2023 at 4:59 AM, Haleth said:

Ooh, that's right.  Maybe the world's lower dependence on oil also contributed to the avoidance of 9/11?

Without the dependency on oil, Saddam Hussein wouldn't have invaded Kuwait. The invasion of Kuwait led to American troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia, which is what so infuriated Osama bin Laden into carrying out multiple terrorist attacks against the United States, most infamously and horribly 9/11. So that's correct, without the oil economy, no 9/11.

I was glad not to see the face of either of Tracy/Gordo's sons. Hopefully for the younger one, the bit in the news montage will be considered sufficient. I guess we'll have to hear eventually what happened to Danny, but I hope he's dead.

Damn, Aleida, huge step back career-wise for her. It's always nice to see Daniel Stern though.

I recognize Toby Kebbell from Servant, another Apple TV show. Seems odd that he'd get his name second in the opening credits after Joel Kinnaman, ahead of multiple people who have been on the show longer with major roles. It's not like he's a big name.

[Hanahope]

Who is Miles?  I don’t recall him or his wife from the prior season. 
 

GHWB must have been fairly old to be running against Gore in 2000.  
 

[paulvdb]

On 3/24/2024 at 1:27 AM, Hanahope said:

Who is Miles?  I don’t recall him or his wife from the prior season. 

He is a new character this season.

[paramitch]

I don't know. I'm back, but I just feel sad after watching this.

I realized afresh this episode that I don't like this show's view of male-female relationships.

Take Miles -- by the end of the scene, I realized it was supposed to be "good guy aims for last chance with the woman he loves." But for most of their scene, all I could focus on was that she had evidently asked him to leave and he didn't want to, had asked for a divorce and he had said he would sign then didn't, and that she had not wanted him to come in, but he blustered his way in looking for a shirt I didn't really believe existed.

And then he was just kind of weird and over-intense and kind of stalkery  ("won't take no for an answer") with her?

I don't like it.

And then we're back with Ed, who I always thought had a mean face, and now that he's old, it's meaner than ever. I hate him. He just looks like the meanest, grumpiest man in town in a bad Hallmark movie, and ugh.

I knew I would feel terrible for Margo, and I do. She is probably the main reason I'm still watching.

I'm not thrilled with this opening. The dialogue is still so blunt and bad to me -- everyone says what they need to to forward the plot.

But I want to know what happens, so I guess I'm in.