S01.E03: First Class

[Athena]

Quote

Frasier begins a new career at the university, determined to be taken seriously as an academic--but finds that a nearly twenty year stint as a daytime talk show host is not easy to escape.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I like that they acknowledged the implausibility of Frasier being hired at Harvard and are trying to justify it in-universe, even though the idea that Harvard of all places needs a dancing bear to excite students about learning still makes little sense. (Based on the ending, I'm assuming Olivia's spiel at the end was all bullshit, so she really does just want him there as the bear?  Rewatched. Maybe not.)

They did a good job using the whole cast, but on the whole I thought this was weaker than the first two. Frasier's dialogue still felt forced, and the combination of the terrible tan and stiff-legged walking he was doing made him look and feel really old. Combined with all the embarrassing show stuff it made me sad for him. (Though I realize Frasier being humiliated was a recurring theme on the old show too.)

Freddy came across as really smug and unlikable, and the long section mocking Frasier about dropping out of Harvard really just served as a reminder that "dropped out of Harvard" is 90% of Freddy's personality on this show (with the Backdraft joke to indicate that "firefighter" is the other 10%). Fine. You dropped out of Harvard and are a firefighter. What else is there to you?

I thought David was less annoying (and for better or worse, he does have a distinct personality.)

Finally noticed from the credits that the student in Frasier's class who wanted him to talk to his mom on the phone and who he inspired not to be a dancer in the first episode is played by Owen Lloyd, who I'm pretty sure is the son of Christopher Lloyd, the producer and showrunner of the best seasons of the original show--1-7 and 11 (whose father David was a legendary writer on the original show and many others, and whose brother Stephen is a producer on this one). Variety said Chris is involved in the revival, and I guess that's proof, though he doesn't seem to have a credit. However much he's contributed to the show, I suspect it could use more of him.

Edited October 19, 2023 by TheOtherOne

[paigow]

Eve is a Meat Grinding Norma Rae... that is something Harvard Theatre should be staging...

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

(Based on the ending, I'm assuming Olivia's spiel at the end was all bullshit, so she really does just want him there as the bear?)

I thought they were telegraphing that Olivia really had been a “Craniac.”

The “rerun” of Frasier’s TV show introduction was a wonderful parody of Stephen Colbert’s and Jimmy Fallon’s entrances pre-pandemic.

I’m mostly watching for Kelsey Grammer’s perfect pre-punchline pregnant pauses.

And I am confident Toks will continue to grow in importance as the writers appreciate what she brings to the table.

But I haven’t read the 3rd episode reviews.
The show’s not cancelled, is it?

Edited October 19, 2023 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

Olivia might also be a proxy for Kate (station mgr) who Frasier ends up seducing... Violating several HR policies along the way....

[TheOtherOne]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought they were telegraphing that Olivia really had been a “Craniac.”

I just rewatched it and I think you're right. The first time through when he said the part about the "pathetic Craniac thing [she] made up" I read her reaction as that yes, she had made it up. But now I can see it as more that, no, she hadn't really made it up. She could have played it bigger, or differently, to make it clearer, but I get it now.

[Guest]

I didn’t love the first two episode but thought there could be potential but I found this to be nearly unwatchable. Kelsey Grammer is doing a good job but nearly everyone else (and the plot) was just irritating. I do like Alan when he is allowed to have some depth and hint at his brilliance. 

 I can only assume the actors are being directed to ham it up and it is grating. David is painful to watch. All I can see is the actor desperately trying to be like Niles.

The Harvard part was ridiculous. Kids work their asses off to get into the Ivies but are going to act like a toddlers when a daytime talk show host shows up. Sure, Jan.  Most people in that age bracket would have never even seen Frasier’s show.

I’m not giving up on it yet but had to fast forward through that final scene with Olivia. 

[Magnumfangirl]

19 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

Freddy came across as really smug and unlikable, and the long section mocking Frasier about dropping out of Harvard

I thought that scene was the best part of this episode and the rest of it was pretty blah.  The show needs more Frasier and Freddy interactions.  

[Egg McMuffin]

I don’t particularly care for Freddy. I like the college angle, but too bad they felt the need to use Harvard - I just don’t buy that they’d ever hire someone like Frasier.

I did like the flashbacks to the Dr. Crane show era (“I’m Glistening” - lol). And I liked when David mentioned being “twinsies.” I think this has potential.

The woman with the baby who lives across the hall (can’t remember her name) adds nothing to the show.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Egg McMuffin

[Annber03]

47 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I did like the flashbacks to the Dr. Crane show era (“I’m Glistening” - lol). And I liked when David mentioned being “twinsies.” I think this has potential.

"I'm glistening" was great :D. Especially the way Frasier said it, so pained. I just would've loved to be a fly on the wall whenever Niles heard about Frasier being mentioned in People magazine, of all things :p. And he would've absolutely had thoughts about Frasier's show, too - the "Morning Becomes Entertainment" episode of the original series was eerily prophetic! 

I also liked how the "Dr. Crane" show was such a jab at shows like Dr. Phil's. Which is rather ironic, considering Dr. Phil himself was on an episode of the original "Frasier" :p. 

Quote

The woman with the baby who lives across the hall (can’t remember her name) adds nothing to the show.

Eve. I like her, myself - I like her interest in acting, I'd like to see what more they could do with that for her character. Frasier snarking on the play she was in was fun. 

(I also thought she looked cute in that turtleneck she had on when she and David were arguing in class.) 

I think David was a little stronger in this episode, too, I could see more of Niles in him and he had a few moments/lines that felt very much like the sort of thing I could hear Niles' son say :p. 

Yeah. I seem to be in something of a minority, but I liked this episode quite a bit. Lots of moments and lines that gave me a good laugh. Like Freddy's whole snarky rant to Frasier about dropping out of Harvard :D.

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Olivia might also be a proxy for Kate (station mgr) who Frasier ends up seducing... Violating several HR policies along the way....

I get strong Bebe vibes from her, myself, especially in the moments when she's pushing Frasier really hard to do something. I feel like those two would get on frighteningly well.

I also feel like Olivia should reach out to the Frasier Crane fan club from the original series :p. And I loved the outfit she had on when she came to talk to Frasier after half his class up and left the room. Especially her coat. She looked really nice in that whole outfit.

I liked the nod to Frasier and NIles' ill-fated attempt to run a restaurant. 

[Nozycat]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

I can only assume the actors are being directed to ham it up and it is grating. David is painful to watch.

Yeah just terrible for me. Don't like much of the rest of the cast and writing either, feels way to forced and cringey to me.

1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I thought that scene was the best part of this episode and the rest of it was pretty blah.  The show needs more Frasier and Freddy interactions.  

Agreed, the only scenes I like are the ones between Frasier and Freddie, feels to me like they are written by different writers. And the actor who plays Freddie seems so much better than the other new actors. Loved the bit where Freddie has a go at Frasier over quitting Harvard.

[baldryanr]

6 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I like the college angle, but too bad they felt the need to use Harvard - I just don’t buy that they’d ever hire someone like Frasier.

Obviously no reputable school would, but once they decided on Frasier going back to teaching it had to be a school with that stature.  Frasier's too pompous to teach at what he would consider a lesser school, especially since he doesn't actually need to work.  Heck, he could have set up a podcast if he wanted to stay in Boston but didn't want to live as a gentleman of leisure.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Obviously no reputable school would, but once they decided on Frasier going back to teaching it had to be a school with that stature.  Frasier's too pompous to teach at what he would consider a lesser school, especially since he doesn't actually need to work.  Heck, he could have set up a podcast if he wanted to stay in Boston but didn't want to live as a gentleman of leisure.

Now I’m pissed they didn’t go with a podcast. It would have been a fun and realistic way to bridge the two shows. A lot of celebrity podcasts have a non-celebrity co-host which would have been perfect for Eve. They really don’t seem to know what to do with her at the moment.

For me, the Harvard scenes are the biggest problem with the show. Everything there is turned up to 11. 

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

Now I’m pissed they didn’t go with a podcast. It would have been a fun and realistic way to bridge the two shows. A lot of celebrity have a non-celebrity co-host which would have been perfect for Eve. They really don’t seem to know what to do with her at the moment.

For me, the Harvard scenes are the biggest problem with the show. Everything there is turned up to 11. 

They could still axe the teaching gig and have Frasier and Cornwall (now emeritus/retired) start a podcast with any or all of the younger characters.

[Camera One]

This episode was also uneven.  There were actually moments in the first half where I thought the show was finally getting its legs.  The nephew character had some decent line deliveries.  

The flashback TV sequences were pretty funny in parodying talk shows.

But in the second half, it was back to cringe.  The nephew and the mom fighting in the lecture hall was embarrassing, along with that dean setting up the talk show environment.  David's rant at Frasier "quitting" dragged on for too long.  

At the same time, it still felt like I was watching Frasier with only him, so I am still surprised at that.  Unlike the characters in the Murphy Brown reboot, Frasier still mostly seems to maintain his energy of old.  

I agree the Harvard setting isn't working any better.  Neither is the living arrangement premise either, but the Harvard parts really stick out as unnatural.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Frasier and Cornwall (now emeritus/retired) start a podcast with any or all of the younger characters.

Only Frasiers In The Building

[Sarah 103]

15 hours ago, Dani said:

Most people in that age bracket would have never even seen Frasier’s show.

They probably weren't DVRing it to watch every day, but I could see it being something they might have seen once or twice when they were home sick from school. 

12 hours ago, Nozycat said:

Loved the bit where Freddie has a go at Frasier over quitting Harvard.

I agree. I think that might have been the best part of the episode. You could tell Freddie had been waiting for years to be able to do something like that. 

7 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Heck, he could have set up a podcast if he wanted to stay in Boston but didn't want to live as a gentleman of leisure.

 

3 hours ago, Dani said:

Now I’m pissed they didn’t go with a podcast. It would have been a fun and realistic way to bridge the two shows. A lot of celebrity podcasts have a non-celebrity co-host which would have been perfect for Eve.

 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

They could still axe the teaching gig and have Frasier and Cornwall (now emeritus/retired) start a podcast with any or all of the younger characters.

I am now disappointed this is not the premise they went with and may like the hypothetical version of the show with a podcast instead of the actual series.

Frasier goes to Boston and decides he wants to reconnect with Freddie. (Freddie agrees to move in for a better reason than given in the actual series).  Meanwhile, Frasier spends time with Cornwall. Cornwall is complaining about how he is being encouraged to retire (getting bad teaching assignments, bad committee assignments; because it's TVLand, you can get away with stuff that might not be 100% accurate).

Frasier misses really being able to help people, like he did with his radio show. On the spot, he pitches a podcast and appeals to Cornwall's ego, because he is so well known in the field (you can set this up a line of dialogue about how Frasier has kept up with all of his friend's books or articles in leading professional or academic publications in the field). Listeners who may not take Frasier seriously anymore would take Cornwall seriously.

Eve becomes the producer. It still allows her time to audition. (All of the above is the first episode)

David wants to help so he offers to do promotion/social media. Frasier and Cornwall assume that because David is Generation Z, he is a tech genius, but he is not. (This is the second episode) 

Main sets:

Frasier's living room and kitchen

The recording studio in Frasier's apartment

Eve's apartment (it's where Freddie goes when he needs a break from Frasier)

Mahoney's (this is the bar from the new series. I like the idea of a hang-out spot like Nervosa, and the name is a tribute to the actor who played Martin) 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Sarah 103

[paigow]

22 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I get strong Bebe vibes from her, myself, 

Only Bebe could have negotiated the Faustian Chicago deal [and retired on her cut] that made Frasier the real estate titan he is today....

[North of Eden]

Boy did I call it last week when I said David was like a 1960s sitcom cartoon character brought to 2023? The way he messed up Frasier/Single Mom's plan in the classroom was right out of Gilligan's playbook.

Are the writers trying to make the fans actively hate Freddie? They will if he's going to be sarcastic, disrespectful a-hole every week.

Freddie and David both blow but the other three supporting players are great additions to the world of Frasier.

[Chit Chat]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:44 PM, Annber03 said:

I get strong Bebe vibes from her, myself, especially in the moments when she's pushing Frasier really hard to do something.

I feel that way too.  Olivia as a Craniac was funny.  When they did the flashback to Frasier's Chicago show, there was a woman in the audience with a really big afro sitting on the aisle seat.  Maybe that was Olivia. I should've gone back and looked at that scene.

I don't like the premise of Freddy having quit school.  I think they could've come up with something more original than that.  It's going to get tiring listening to him and Frasier go back and forth on that subject.   I liked the retrospective of Frasier's career the past 10 years.  He went from "I'm listening," to "I'm glistening!"  The hat was the ultimate insult to his very being.  Poor Frasier.  Dance, bear, dance!!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

I don't like the premise of Freddy having quit school.  I think they could've come up with something more original than that.  It's going to get tiring listening to him and Frasier go back and forth on that subject. 

Maybe Freddy will take some night classes at a community college?

[Chit Chat]

43 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Freddy will take some night classes at a community college?

For me, it's not about whether he attended college or not, it's that the constant pissing contest between him and his dad over it has already worn thin with me!

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

For me, it's not about whether he attended college or not, it's that the constant pissing contest between him and his dad over it has already worn thin with me!

Oh, I get that.
I just thought having Freddy take some classes might dial it back a notch. 
I've started watching the OG show from the beginning because I never saw it live and do not know which episodes I've seen or missed. 
There's a crap-ton of arguing between Frasier and Martin. I guess they're trying to reproduce that with the reboot?
And Frasier is really kind of [your-expletive-goes-here] most of the time.
But then he gets nauseated if he violates the ethics of his profession. 
🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited October 22, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Lois Sandborne]

I've enjoyed these first few episodes on their own terms. I've laughed at each one, and even though some parts are really dumb (looking at you, the entire Harvard plot) I want to see where it goes. But I'm not sure I'll go back and rewatch them. Guess we'll see when the season's done.

I really, really, really don't like Freddy.

(And it should go without saying, but quitting an unfulfilling job is not the same as dropping out of school, so wipe that smug smirk off your face, you inexplicably antagonistic twerp.)

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

There's a crap-ton of arguing between Frasier and Martin. I guess they're trying to reproduce that with the reboot?

Probably so, but their relationship was a bit more complicated. I loved how the original series showed how Frasier, Niles & Martin all came to see how much they loved each other, despite the differences between them.  In the end, I think Frasier & Niles really appreciated who their father was.  Niles dressed up as his dad for Halloween for the "who is your hero" theme after all. 

We know that even though Frasier was miles apart from Freddy, he was always thrilled when he came to visit him in Seattle.  Besides the Goth phase that Freddy went through, and when he was a bit rude to his dad, they seemed to get along so well.  I was thrown a little bit by seeing a grown-up Freddy having such resentment towards his dad.  I wasn't expecting that, given how they seemed fairly close when he was growing up.  I know things can change, but I really don't like that premise, but I understand there has to be some conflict, so it gives the characters something to work towards as far as a reconciliation.  I would've been fine with them getting along and watching their antics around Boston though.

With Frasier & Lillith, their expectations for Freddy were pretty high.  That was a lot of pressure for a kid to live up to.  I'm curious as to Lillith's reaction to him quitting school.  They'll have to understand that Freddy doesn't want the same things as them, and hopefully come to respect his decision.  

 

[paigow]

58 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Besides the Goth phase that Freddy went through, and when he was a bit rude to his dad, they seemed to get along so well. 

• Klingon Bar Mitzvah
• Middle Name = Gaylord

[baldryanr]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just thought having Freddy take some classes might dial it back a notch. 

Frasier would look down on anyone in community college.  Harvard actually does have an extension school for non-traditional students, and he'd likely look down on that too. 

[shapeshifter]

55 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

Frasier would look down on anyone in community college.  Harvard actually does have an extension school for non-traditional students, and he'd likely look down on that too. 

Yeah. It probably wouldn't dial back the diatribes very much.
But it might make the arguments more relatable, given that most of the viewing audience do not have Harvard degrees, but I imagine most probably have some college education. 

Plus, if Freddy engaged in some sort of continuing education program, it would be a symbolic step closer to his father's ideals. Then maybe Frasier could lower his expectations a tad in return. 

Maybe they plan to have Freddy suffer some injury that causes him to have to give up being a firefighter? Hopefully not anything as severe as his grandfather's.
I don't think a PTSD issue would work very well either.
But all of this sounds too grim — not that OG Frasier wasn't grim at times.
I'd prefer just seeing Freddy ready to move on to the next career. I have daughters his age who have done this every 5-10 years.
And Frasier himself has done it to some degree. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

Frasier would look down on anyone in community college.  Harvard actually does have an extension school for non-traditional students, and he'd likely look down on that too. 

Yale and Cornell are regarded as second rate entities....

[paigow]

3 hours ago, baldryanr said:

and he'd likely look down on that too. 

Like Christian Lacroix knock off cushions from the same sweatshop producing Yale T-Shirts

[Yeah No]

I was a huge fan of the original Frasier and have watched every episode several times.  I am giving this one the "ol' college try" for now, but so for it's coming up short for me in a few ways.  I agree that Freddy is unlikable, but I also think he was miscast.  I wonder why they couldn't get the original actor to play the role.  This one is not feeling realistic to me as being Frasier's son at all, especially knowing what the original Freddy was like.  I don't think the character was well thought out.  I get where they were trying to go with it but it's not feeling realistic enough to me.  This Freddy feels more like a surly caricature of Martin's son, not Frasier's.  A more realistic Freddy would have aspects of both Frasier and Martin in him despite his choice of career and dropping out of Harvard.  And he wouldn't be so unlikable either.  I actually think Niles' son is conceived to be more true to his roots, although I am not impressed with the actor's portrayal of him so far nor his lines.  

As for the other actors, I don't know if it's them or the lines or just that they don't have the right chemistry together, but everything feels off about them.  I agree with what's been said about the whole thing feeling forced.  The timing doesn't flow, and some of it feels too rushed.  Some of the lines are good but the delivery isn't the best.  The only actor that feels right is Kelsey, but everyone around him is not living up to him here.  I have chuckled a few times but something is still not right.  I can only hope that this show finds its groove in time.  

[Sarah 103]

19 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

(And it should go without saying, but quitting an unfulfilling job is not the same as dropping out of school, so wipe that smug smirk off your face, you inexplicably antagonistic twerp.)

I agree. People sometimes go to the wrong college, realize it was a mistake, and then transfer to a different school where they are a better fit. They could have had Freddie do that. 

I know they were going for father-son conflict, and there's still a way to make this work within the series. Instead of Freddie dropping out of Harvard, maybe he transferred to a "lesser school" where he was much happier. After college, he became a firefighter, much to the dismay of Frasier. 

17 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

I'm curious as to Lillith's reaction to him quitting school.  They'll have to understand that Freddy doesn't want the same things as them, and hopefully come to respect his decision.  

I have the same question. Is Lilith okay with it or has at least made peace with it sooner than Frasier? Has Freddie been estranged from both of his parents for  over a decade? These are questions I hope are answered when Lilith makes a cameo this season. 

[Nozycat]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And he wouldn't be so unlikable either.

I like Freddy so far, the interactions between him and Frasier are the only ones that ring true for me and like the original.  All the other stuff is very unfunny for me.

[In2You]

1 hour ago, Nozycat said:

I like Freddy so far, the interactions between him and Frasier are the only ones that ring true for me and like the original.  All the other stuff is very unfunny for me.

I agree. I like their interactions. That cheesy talk show and the Harvard stuff feels too over the top

[Guest]

In the original series, I didn’t feel the Freddy and Frasier were particularly close. Frasier wasn’t a huge presence in Freddy’s life after moving away when Freddy was a toddler. I’d find it unrealistic if there wasn’t resentment on Freddy’s side. 

2 hours ago, Nozycat said:

I like Freddy so far, the interactions between him and Frasier are the only ones that ring true for me and like the original.  All the other stuff is very unfunny for me.

Same for me. It’s the one thing keeping it from being a mediocre sitcom for me. Frasier needs someone who can push back at him. Every significant relationship dynamic he had in the original show included a lot of pushback. Martin started as downright hostile. 

[Irlandesa]

Right now, Freddy is the only "new" character that feels fully rounded and it's probably because he's not a new character.  Even though he seems very different from his childhood persona, we have history with him and know what Frasier would expect from his son because we know Frasier.  It's the kind of situation where the show actually doesn't need to explain to us how dropping out of Harvard would resonate with Frasier.

On 10/21/2023 at 7:12 PM, Lois Sandborne said:

(And it should go without saying, but quitting an unfulfilling job is not the same as dropping out of school, so wipe that smug smirk off your face, you inexplicably antagonistic twerp.)

It isn't, but I find it far easier to defend Freddy's position than Frasier's.  Frasier always had a difficult time accepting Freddy for who he was rather than who Frasier thought he should be.  I have little doubt Freddy had a lot of pressure put on him to go to Harvard.

He went.  Tried it out.  He dropped out when he decided Harvard/college wasn't for him, but he didn't wander aimlessly.  He chose to become a fireman. 

I am a big supporter of higher education, but I think it's perfectly fine not to do college if the profession you'd like to enter doesn't require a degree, especially an Ivy League degree.  And I don't think Freddy needs to try to meet Frasier halfway when it comes to schooling.  He should do it if he thinks it'll help him advance in his career, but not to try and pacify his father, who sneers at anything non-Harvard. 

Frasier wanted to quit his job after one measly day when his idealized view of teaching didn't give him the ego boost he sought.  It'd also be irresponsible to quit mid-semester. It'd leave the school scrambling to find another prof to teach those classes.

 

 

 

[paigow]

If Chicago Fire is a valid indicator, Freddy should have a lot of educational options / career boosting available at Boston F.D. Academy... Arson Investigation, Advanced Rescue etc...

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And I don't think Freddy needs to try to meet Frasier halfway when it comes to schooling.  He should do it if he thinks it'll help him advance in his career, but not to try and pacify his father, who sneers at anything non-Harvard. 

Agreed.
Upthread I typed:

20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

…if Freddy engaged in some sort of continuing education program, it would be a symbolic step closer to his father's ideals. Then maybe Frasier could lower his expectations a tad in return

My including the word “symbolic” failed to convey that I was thinking of any decision by Freddy to enter some degree- or certificate-granting program would be a plot device by the writers to bring Freddy and Frasier closer together, and definitely not Freddy entering higher education to appease Frasier.
Sorry for any confusion 
— if anyone read that far in my TLDR post, heh.

[Juneau Gal]

Ugh, this is just........bad. So many nits I could pick, but for me the most egregious is Frasier's continued disappointment of Freddy dropping out of Harvard. Freddy is in his early 30s so this dropping out happened years ago. The Frasier we knew from the original series would have been initially disappointed, but by this many years later would have gotten over it and it would not be such an ongoing issue. At most it should have warranted a quick nod in the first episode and then move on. It's tedious.

I understand that they needed something to explain the "estrangement" of the two characters, but a simple "we were both too busy with our own lives the last decade" would have sufficed and be more believable. That happens a lot between parents and children as the children become adults.

Frasier teaching is a tired old trope also; it's like these writers are frozen cavemen thawed out and writing a show from the past.

This show is just bad and it saddens me. I'm bowing out so that the whole reboot doesn't color my feelings towards the original.

[benteen]

There were a few funny linesin this episode, mainly when Frasier is working off of Alan and Olivia. But this show has yet to justify it's existence and it's writing staff clearly isn't trying for anything great here, like a Frasier show deserves. What's especially disappointing is I believe this episode WAS written by someone from the original show.

The younger cast has not stood out and David's character was worst than he was in the first two episodes. The actor is doing a bad impersonation of both Niles and Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory.

This show is not as bad as some critics are saying but if it didn't have the characters of Alan and Olivia to work off of Frasier, it would be awful. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by benteen

[benteen]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:39 PM, Dani said:

 

The Harvard part was ridiculous. Kids work their asses off to get into the Ivies but are going to act like a toddlers when a daytime talk show host shows up. Sure, Jan.  Most people in that age bracket would have never even seen Frasier’s show.

If they really wanted to be more realistic with the Harvard students, they would have had the students trying to cancel Frasier for something he said on his show more than a decade ago.

College kids are obsessed with.their phones and social media so they would probably be obsessed with Frasier the teacher.

Edited October 23, 2023 by benteen

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, benteen said:

What's especially disappointing is I believe this episode WAS written by someone from the original show.

 

It wasn’t but the next episode was. 

[paigow]

There is no Bulldog adjacent character to humble / humiliate Frasier... Mikado anyone????

[TexasTiffany]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:21 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I am now disappointed this is not the premise they went with and may like the hypothetical version of the show with a podcast instead of the actual series.

Frasier goes to Boston and decides he wants to reconnect with Freddie. (Freddie agrees to move in for a better reason than given in the actual series).  Meanwhile, Frasier spends time with Cornwall. Cornwall is complaining about how he is being encouraged to retire (getting bad teaching assignments, bad committee assignments; because it's TVLand, you can get away with stuff that might not be 100% accurate).

Frasier misses really being able to help people, like he did with his radio show. On the spot, he pitches a podcast and appeals to Cornwall's ego, because he is so well known in the field (you can set this up a line of dialogue about how Frasier has kept up with all of his friend's books or articles in leading professional or academic publications in the field). Listeners who may not take Frasier seriously anymore would take Cornwall seriously.

Eve becomes the producer. It still allows her time to audition. (All of the above is the first episode)

David wants to help so he offers to do promotion/social media. Frasier and Cornwall assume that because David is Generation Z, he is a tech genius, but he is not. (This is the second episode) 

Main sets:

Now that I've read this ^^^^^ I'd prefer it to the show they've got right now. I loved OG Frasier and still hope that this reboot finds its footing and becomes great. I'm not feeling it yet, though. It's like 35% of what it could be. The podcast idea is broad enough to incorporate future directions to expand and could still draw from the wealth of history of the original show. 

Freddie's being able to point a finger back at Frasier for wanting to quit Harvard I rather enjoyed, but that's about all. 

I really didn't like this episode. It felt like the last year of the original show where they were running out of ideas and trying anything to churn out an episode to air. 

David is annoying at this point. He's holding space until they figure out what to do with him. I like Alan so far since it makes me feel like Martin is still around in spirit. Olivia and Eve are still scenery chewers right now. I really want to like this show. I've got heart and well wishes. Let's hope the writers find their groove. 

[Lois Sandborne]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:16 PM, Irlandesa said:

Frasier always had a difficult time accepting Freddy for who he was rather than who Frasier thought he should be.

I don't remember this being the case. The new show is certainly telling us this, but it's not the character development I remember for either of them or the lasting impression I had from their relationship in original recipe Frasier.

Frasier certainly was a snob (as was Lillith), but he didn't carry that into his relationship with Freddy. There really wasn't even much of a chance for him to do that. The only times Freddy was really in conflict with Frasier's expectations were when Freddy only wanted to play video games so Frasier takes him camping, and when he was in his goth phase. The camping episode had some tween style rebellion and them coming together as Crane men because it turned out Freddy was actually getting interested in girls. The goth episode had some teenage style rebellion, and a lot of jokes from everyone about how weird it was, but I don't remember the jokes being to Freddy's face, or coming from Frasier to Freddy as criticism. Frasier was disappointed that Freddy didn't want to spend time with him on his trip, not in his actual choices. And here again, Frederick's goth style and his wanting to spend time elsewhere was because of a girl, which is a very typical teenage boy thing, not a sign of a damaged relationship. The characterization of Freddy and of Freddy and Frasier's relationship in this new version to me is really out of nowhere, and I don't enjoy it.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Lois Sandborne

[Irlandesa]

39 minutes ago, Lois Sandborne said:

he only times Freddy was really in conflict with Frasier's expectations were when Freddy only wanted to play video games so Frasier takes him camping, and when he was in his goth phase.

I'm not suggesting that they had a broken relationship.  I don't even think they have a truly broken relationship now. 

But when I say he had a hard time accepting Freddy, I'm referring to the fact that he always had a picture of who he thought Freddy should be and always seemed surprised when Freddy didn't live up to the idealized version.

There was another instance when Frasier bought Freddy a bunch of "educational" Christmas presents when all Freddy wanted was something less intellectual.  Luckily, Martin came through.  But Frasier's inability to accept that Freddy chose not to go to Harvard and chose to become a fireman feels very much in line with that previous attitude. 

[paigow]

What happened to all the Greek cousins? Were they from Boston?

[Lois Sandborne]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But when I say he had a hard time accepting Freddy, I'm referring to the fact that he always had a picture of who he thought Freddy should be and always seemed surprised when Freddy didn't live up to the idealized version.

That's my point though. OG Frasier didn't tell or show us this. Or it certainly didn't in any way that was communicated to me.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lois Sandborne said:

That's my point though. OG Frasier didn't tell or show us this. Or it certainly didn't in any way that was communicated to me.

Personally, I’ve always thought that was exactly what they were trying to say in the Christmas episode mentioned by @Irlandesa. Martin even tells Frasier that he always buys presents he thinks people should want and not what they actually want. He sees Freddy’s intellect and never even considers Freddy might want what other kids want. I don’t find to be their current relationship to be out of line with who Frasier was shown to be with Freddy or his general personality throughout the show. 

[Lois Sandborne]

Wasn't that episode in like season 2? Maybe the first time we saw Freddy? He ended up getting Martin's point and giving Freddy the "cool" toy. I just don't think unrealistic or mismatched expectations or disappointment in who Freddy was is where his and Frasier's relations with each other ended, and it's hard for me to buy into or enjoy the idea that for some reason 20 or 30 years later Freddy is this resentful and hostile. I don't expect to change anyone else's mind, but it doesn't make sense to me, and it's making it really hard for me to accept this version of the character.