S03.E07: CoBro

[MisterGlass]

I was so happy to see Bunny again that I gasped.  I loved more of Uma.  And Theo.  And the Mel Brooks cameo.  And the debut of Gut Milk Blue Raspberry drunk from wine glasses.

14 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Was Theo played by a different actor? This guy did an amazing job of channeling Nathan Lane right down to the eyebrow inflections

Same actor, James Caverly.  His look is quite different from previous episodes - no coat, no beanie, new haircut, new jacket, new glasses, and a little stubble.  He did look noticeably more like Nathan Lane as Teddy.  In the past, though, there was a lot of emphasis on the distance between Theo and Teddy.  There has been some reconciliation between them, and maybe that is reflected aesthetically.

I agree Mabel turned away from him too many times, especially since they called that out in past episodes.  Dramatic staging should give way to consideration.

 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I agree Mabel turned away from him too many times, especially since they called that out in past episodes.  Dramatic staging should give way to consideration.

On rewatching, I considered that Mabel turning away from Theo (as she continued to verbally mull over the murder mystery) must have been deliberate directing to show Mabel is mostly disconnecting from others this season.
But it still bothered me —
even though it’s probably typical of conversation behavior by the hearing in the presence of the deaf —
and it’s not unlike family members with hearing in the “normal” range talking to hearing impaired family from the next room —
very irritating.

But Theo looked accepting of Mabel turning away from him, rather than irritated —
which is probably what bothered us most about that scene.

And yet, Mabel turning away from Theo at that moment parallels her telling Tobert she’s just going to record herself on her cellphone instead of using his pricey equipment, and also when she told off her Olds and stormed away.

Hopefully the next episode opens with a view of where Mabel is living.

Edited September 14, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I’m leaning against Ben having an identical twin. Dickie said that he was adopted and then Ben came along. If there were twins, you usually say “the twins” came along or “Ben and [insert name here]” came along. Saying just Ben’s name if there were two seems weird.

If there's a secret Ben twin out there, Dickie may be helping to cover it up.

I've never liked the idea of Ben having a twin - particularly an identical one. How could a famous actor have a twin sibling who no one knows about?

But it would explain how Ben "came back to life" in the season premiere. And why Kimber said that Ben had a mark on his face which disappeared shortly afterward.

[JenE4]

22 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

If there's a secret Ben twin out there, Dickie may be helping to cover it up.

I've never liked the idea of Ben having a twin - particularly an identical one. How could a famous actor have a twin sibling who no one knows about?

But it would explain how Ben "came back to life" in the season premiere. And why Kimber said that Ben had a mark on his face which disappeared shortly afterward.

With this show, it’s certainly feasible that twins Ben and Glen Roy (or even triplets Ben, Glen, and Roy) became Ben Glenroy, the world’s most prolific actor—seemingly able to work around the clock. It’s like if “Mary Kate Ashley Olsen” stayed on the Full House schedule and the viewers/fans never knew there were more than one Michelle—for 30 years! Maybe the superfan who was arrested was getting too close to the truth…

ETA: If he started really young—and we know he was in the business at least by age 8, when Charles had him kicked off his show—then it is likely that there were more than one sibling sharing the early roles.

Edited September 14, 2023 by JenE4

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But it would explain how Ben "came back to life" in the season premiere. And why Kimber said that Ben had a mark on his face which disappeared shortly afterward.

The mark on his face was explained, wasn't it? That's why Joy was in his room. He got the mark when Charles punched him and Joy covered it with makeup.

[Frost]

Matthew Broderick!  He's one of my absolute favorite actors.  If you ever want a cry, watch Glory.   Matthew being a workaholic uber-method actor was delightful.  He was clearly having a great time.  And I loved Oliver's sending him off by basically comparing himself to a horse Charles once acted with.

I don't really watch this show for the mystery, so I let the clues just wash over me. 😆  Someone in an earlier post pointed out that Tobert is probably working for Cinda because of all the podcast tools he suddenly has.  That's a good theory.

[callie lee 29]

I'm not a big fan of Theo (not really a fan at all) but I did appreciate them keeping up the episode 7 tradition. He can go back to wherever he's been now. 

 

It was nice seeing Uma and Lester again. I always love seeing all the other Arconia residents. 

I'm glad Oliver and Charles realized they fucked up with Mabel but did I miss something? Did they not realize that she was moving out did they maybe just forget or not pay attention?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 9/12/2023 at 5:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

BTW, FYI: Gerrard Lobo (Detective Biswas) is 2 years older than Jesse Williams (Tobert).

And Steve Martin is 16 years older than Jackie Hoffman (Uma), despite his unwillingness to consider himself "her age."

On 9/13/2023 at 7:32 AM, Blakeston said:

2. I really hope they explain what happened to the (completely justified) criminal charges against Nathan Lane's character and his son.

On 9/12/2023 at 8:26 AM, ofmd said:

Nice that Theo is back, but shouldn't he be in prison? Anyway, cool he can still read lips even if the person have turned their back on him, lol.

Last time we saw him, he was out on bail wearing an ankle monitor, correct?  I wonder if anything has changed.  And yes to the last part.

On 9/12/2023 at 5:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

I was definitely annoyed by the scene blocking with Theo facing away from the other speakers instead of showing him lip reading. What was up with that?

On 9/12/2023 at 6:16 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

 It did bug the heck out of me, when they've gone to great lengths to emphasize that even with lip-reading Theo is only getting a fraction of what people are saying, to have Mabel keep talking  while walking away from him, or for Mabel and Tobert to carry on conversations where their faces are both angled partly away from Theo.  

Here's an idea: ask the Deaf actor to raise his hand whenever he can't see what his costars who are in a conversation with him are saying.  Or if that's too much pressure on him while also reciting his lines, have a Deaf coordinator on the set to do it.

On 9/12/2023 at 12:17 PM, Snapdragon said:

 Minor gripe: Mabel pretending that she was a CoBro fan when talking to Dickie at the auction.  She was a big Girl, Cop fan, so why not bring that up instead?  Also, I would have liked it better if when Theo told her he was a CoBro fan, instead of just calling him a nerd she had said, "It's cool. I'm into Girl, Cop, so I can't judge."  Would have been a nice moment.  

I didn't get that either.  It didn't bother me so much when she did it with Theo, because she was just teasing him (I think he was fine with it, and "nerd" generally applies to fans of the superhero genre more than it does to the teenage cop genre), but it would have been a perfect way to interact knowledgably with Dickie. But then we would have been deprived of Mabel trying to interpret what Theo was signing, although I'm not sure that Theo would have been able to clearly see Dickie asking all those questions, anyway.

On 9/12/2023 at 3:49 PM, peeayebee said:

I wonder who the detective was talking to on the phone. The one from last season?

I believe so. 

On 9/12/2023 at 5:07 PM, sistermagpie said:

I think it was Dickey and she just didn't know him or care.

On 9/13/2023 at 7:00 AM, Haleth said:

I'd be surprised if Uma didn't know Dickie.  She seems pretty on top of things.

I'm not sure that Uma notices (non-famous) people who don't directly affect her.  She's pretty self-centered.

 

[KaveDweller]

Dumb question.....if Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, wouldn't that mean if his watch said 12:06 it was really 11:46 and not 12:26 like Mabel said. So the stalker guy would still have been there. 

I think they meant he set his watch late, since that is what would make him late for things. If you set your watch early, you will be early for things. But Mabel and Dickie said early and it has been driving me crazy.

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question.....if Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, wouldn't that mean if his watch said 12:06 it was really 11:46 and not 12:26 like Mabel said. So the stalker guy would still have been there. 

I think they meant he set his watch late, since that is what would make him late for things. If you set your watch early, you will be early for things. But Mabel and Dickie said early and it has been driving me crazy.

That wording confused me too.
Perhaps instead of:

• “Dickie said Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early”

this would have been less confusing:

• Dickie said Ben always set his watch back 20 minutes

[JenE4]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question.....if Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, wouldn't that mean if his watch said 12:06 it was really 11:46 and not 12:26 like Mabel said. So the stalker guy would still have been there. 

I think they meant he set his watch late, since that is what would make him late for things. If you set your watch early, you will be early for things. But Mabel and Dickie said early and it has been driving me crazy.

Yes, I was confused trying to figure that one out, too, but assumed the same thing you did that they just said “early” instead of “late” because the “fashionably late” thing seemed to imply he’s otherwise punctual and that would make him 20 minutes late. But now that we’re thinking about it again, maybe “early” was correct and he already is habitually late so instead of being 40 minutes late like a real jerk, the time change makes him appropriately fashionably late. I am now back on board from thinking it was a mistake in writing to very likely an actual clue.

[peeayebee]

12 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I didn't get that either.  It didn't bother me so much when she did it with Theo, because she was just teasing him (I think he was fine with it, and "nerd" generally applies to fans of the superhero genre more than it does to the teenage cop genre), but it would have been a perfect way to interact knowledgably with Dickie. But then we would have been deprived of Mabel trying to interpret what Theo was signing, although I'm not sure that Theo would have been able to clearly see Dickie asking all those questions, anyway.

Yeah, it was set up simply for the signing misinterpretation joke. Bugs me when writers do that.

 

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That wording confused me too.
Perhaps instead of:

• “Dickie said Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early”

this would have been less confusing:

• Dickie said Ben always set his watch back 20 minutes

Kind of reminds me of when I want change the thermostat setting for the A/C. I always stumble over saying "Turn the A/C down" or "Turn the A/C up." Do I want it cooler or warmer? If I want it to be warmer, it's more accurate to say, "Turn it up," but that sounds like I want it colder. Life is tough. :D

[Lugal]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:26 PM, shapeshifter said:

On rewatching, I considered that Mabel turning away from Theo (as she continued to verbally mull over the murder mystery) must have been deliberate directing to show Mabel is mostly disconnecting from others this season.
But it still bothered me —
even though it’s probably typical of conversation behavior by the hearing in the presence of the deaf —
and it’s not unlike family members with hearing in the “normal” range talking to hearing impaired family from the next room —
very irritating.

I just assume it's one of Mabel's quirks that Theo is probably used to by now.  Add in the fact that Mabel's signing isn't fluent, I have to wonder how much of the conversation either of them get.

[Guest]

On 9/14/2023 at 7:22 PM, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question.....if Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, wouldn't that mean if his watch said 12:06 it was really 11:46 and not 12:26 like Mabel said. So the stalker guy would still have been there. 

I think they meant he set his watch late, since that is what would make him late for things. If you set your watch early, you will be early for things. But Mabel and Dickie said early and it has been driving me crazy.

It threw me but I think what they said technically works. It is just very ambiguous phrasing. He set it so the watch showed an earlier time so he (and it) were running late. 

Using behind or slow would have been a lot clearer. 

 

[secnarf]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:22 PM, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question.....if Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, wouldn't that mean if his watch said 12:06 it was really 11:46 and not 12:26 like Mabel said. So the stalker guy would still have been there. 

I think they meant he set his watch late, since that is what would make him late for things. If you set your watch early, you will be early for things. But Mabel and Dickie said early and it has been driving me crazy.

I think they just meant that he set his watch to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

[sistermagpie]

26 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I think they just meant that he set his watch to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

But that would make him early for everything, not fashionably late.

[shapeshifter]

For example 
From Mabel’s observation:

Quote

The police said Ben died at 12:06, but that's because it was the time on Ben's watch when he fell and it stopped. Dickie said Ben always set his watch 20 minutes early, which means he died at 12:26!

Ben’s watch:
12:06

Real time of death:
12:26

(images generated courtesy of https://helpingwithmath.com/generators/3md1-clock-face-generator01/)

I prefer “he set his watch back,” but English language prepositions are numerous and can be both vague and specific, as well as used differently by folks in different geographic regions.

But who wears a watch anymore? 
And cellphone clocks set themselves. 
I suspect a Luddite wrote this plot point.
 

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But that would make him early for everything, not fashionably late.

Hah! Almost true! Being fashionably (or rudely) late for everything seems to be the essence of Ben’s personality and persona.

Editing after reading @secnarf’s and @JenE4’s posts below.👇 

Edited September 17, 2023 by shapeshifter

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But that would make him early for everything, not fashionably late.

No - using the example above, he would set his watch to be 12:06 when it’s really 12:26, because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the actual time. So if he needs to be somewhere then at 12:30, he will get there when his watch says 12:30, and it is really 12:50, again because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 
 

It’s an odd way of phrasing this - as @shapeshifter said, setting his watch back 20 min would be a better way to have said this, but I’m fairly sure they intended it to mean his watch was set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

[JenE4]

29 minutes ago, secnarf said:

No - using the example above, he would set his watch to be 12:06 when it’s really 12:26, because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the actual time. So if he needs to be somewhere then at 12:30, he will get there when his watch says 12:30, and it is really 12:50, again because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 
 

It’s an odd way of phrasing this - as @shapeshifter said, setting his watch back 20 min would be a better way to have said this, but I’m fairly sure they intended it to mean his watch was set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

 

On 9/15/2023 at 7:44 AM, JenE4 said:

Yes, I was confused trying to figure that one out, too, but assumed the same thing you did that they just said “early” instead of “late” because the “fashionably late” thing seemed to imply he’s otherwise punctual and that would make him 20 minutes late. But now that we’re thinking about it again, maybe “early” was correct and he already is habitually late so instead of being 40 minutes late like a real jerk, the time change makes him appropriately fashionably late. I am now back on board from thinking it was a mistake in writing to very likely an actual clue.

The issue is that Mabel was the one who inferred that the time was 12:26. She could have misinterpreted the clue at it was really 11:46 when the murder occurred. Quoted myself as to how I think it can go either way. I don’t think the writers would make a mistake—and no one in the cast or crew would question it. I think this is still an open clue.

Edited September 17, 2023 by JenE4

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, secnarf said:

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But that would make him early for everything, not fashionably late.

No - using the example above…

Yes. 
I miss-read* @sistermagpie’s post as:
“But that would make him [late] for everything, not [just] fashionably late [(for some things)].

* Sorry for adding to the confusion. I was dealing with a family member meltdown yesterday.

 

33 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I don’t think the writers would make a mistake…

I don’t think it was a mistake either, because “early” isn’t wrong — but I did think “early” was a poor word choice because it was confusing.

I prefer “back” because I’m so familiar with the phrase that helps me and others twice a year:
”Fall back and Spring ahead.”

Edited September 17, 2023 by shapeshifter

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

The issue is that Mabel was the one who inferred that the time was 12:26. She could have misinterpreted the clue at it was really 11:46 when the murder occurred. Quoted myself as to how I think it can go either way. I don’t think the writers would make a mistake—and no one in the cast or crew would question it. I think this is still an open clue.

As others said, "early" is a way that some people put it, though obviously that can cause some confusion. However, when Dickie was telling Mabel this, he said Ben did it so he could be fashionably late. That would make clear to Mabel that Ben's watch was set back not forward.

I liked that in the two scenes this ep with Dickie, an image of Ben was looming behind him. First it was the huge painting of Ben's face, and then it was the movie cardboard stand for whatever movie or TV show of Ben's (Girl Cop?).

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, secnarf said:

No - using the example above, he would set his watch to be 12:06 when it’s really 12:26, because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the actual time. So if he needs to be somewhere then at 12:30, he will get there when his watch says 12:30, and it is really 12:50, again because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

Ah! Yes, I get it--finally. It was really bugging me.

[kay1864]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:31 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

new poster and everything.

Am I the only one that thought this poster was super hot?

ETA: not the idea of Mabel with a knife in her mouth per se, but just the juxtaposition of her beauty and the macabre. Plus her gaze, and her makeup really highlights Selena’s features. Great composition overall, for a poster we only see briefly.

Edited September 18, 2023 by kay1864

[ofmd]

I hope so...

[shapeshifter]

 

On 9/12/2023 at 4:31 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

Isn’t it fascinating that Tobert is way more excited than Mabel about the podcast, with new equipment, new poster and everything.

2 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Am I the only one that thought this poster was super hot?

Maybe? LOL
When Tobert first showed Mabel the poster in the previous episode, she reacted in characteristically noncommittal, true Mabel form.
I was a bit creeped out by it, and thought Mabel was too.
But then both I and the character of Mabel have spent countless hours creating works that include portraits, and so are aware how much time — obsession? — such a poster might have involved.

And now I see @ofmd apparently agrees:

3 minutes ago, ofmd said:

I hope so...

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But then both I and the character of Mabel have spent countless hours creating works that include portraits, and so are aware how much time — obsession? — such a poster might have involved.

Tobert could be working with Cinda to lure Mabel away from the olds.

OR Tobert is an UC DEA agent, investigating Dr. C and his drug ring.

 

3 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Am I the only one that thought this poster was super hot?

You and definitely Tobert. 😆

He should add some blood drips🩸, make it more alluring.

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

OR Tobert is an UC DEA agent, investigating Dr. C and his drug ring.

That fits with what we’ve seen.

And hanging out with murder podcaster Mabel is the perfect undercover role.

Edited September 18, 2023 by shapeshifter

[KaveDweller]

On 9/17/2023 at 7:34 AM, secnarf said:

No - using the example above, he would set his watch to be 12:06 when it’s really 12:26, because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the actual time. So if he needs to be somewhere then at 12:30, he will get there when his watch says 12:30, and it is really 12:50, again because his watch is set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 
 

It’s an odd way of phrasing this - as @shapeshifter said, setting his watch back 20 min would be a better way to have said this, but I’m fairly sure they intended it to mean his watch was set to be 20min earlier than the real time. 

Is that how some people talk about time? They say early when they mean behind? I see how it could technically be right, I have just never heard anyone else say it like that. But obviously I don't know everyone.

I think I was so confused because I set my watch 4 minutes ahead of the real time, so I am never late. And I usually say I set my watch early or I set it fast. And I guess I am old and out of touch cause I do wear a watch.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

And I guess I am old and out of touch cause I do wear a watch.

No. I was being a bit rude about watch wearing. Analog watches are actually kind of cool. I bet they will make a comeback.

[Dobian]

Not only a Ferris Bueller reference, but a Wargames reference!  That brought me back.  "I taught myself how to code."  Now that's some method acting!

"You told him you're open to his ideas?  You're FUCKED!"

Love Mel Brooks.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Dobian

[chediavolo]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:46 AM, LadyintheLoop said:

So Loretta is Dickie's birth mother? Not Ben's?

Wait, how did I miss this?!  When was this implied?  I know I didn’t fall asleep during the episode. I don’t remember anything about Loretta possibly being one of their mothers. Can you please elaborate. Thanks

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Wait, how did I miss this?!  When was this implied?  I know I didn’t fall asleep during the episode. I don’t remember anything about Loretta possibly being one of their mothers. Can you please elaborate. Thanks

They're referring to popular theories. Some people thought she would turn out to be Ben's mother, and ome that she'd turn out to be Dickie's.

[Cherry Styles]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:40 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Was Theo played by a different actor? This guy did an amazing job of channeling Nathan Lane right down to the eyebrow inflections, which of course makes sense. I don't remember Theo being this convincingly Nathan Lane's progeny before.

My main question now: OK, the show opens in two weeks. Yet Oliver hasn't seen Loretta? Is she not a featured actress in his musical that opens in two weeks?!??!??

I just watched the episode and was amazed how much Theo looked like Teddy.  I never noticed it before.  I think it's the glasses too.  Theo didn't wear glasses in season one, did he? 

[aradia22]

Now that's a pull. Calling Matthew Broderick in for a patter song was an amazing choice. I do love that the show has these connections to surprise us like this. Realistically, they should have kept him instead of Charles, even if Broderick hasn't been able to consistently sell Broadway tickets and the constable doesn't seem like a big enough role to be a draw for audiences.

I loved having Theo back and that Mabel has been learning some ASL. And it was great to have that little clue with the original drawing and the R being turned into a B. I like that they're not in peril from the killer and they don't have to clear their names from suspicion this season. It creates a natural reason for them not to be solving the mystery quicker when two of the three are pretty busy and for clues like this to be uncovered later. 

I'm conflicted on whether to be suspicious of Dickie and Loretta at this point. The show has done this before where towards the end they let us become suspicious of Jan and then dismissed it only to have a fuller explanation of how Jan was connected to the murder later. This late in the season, I'm not ruling out "red herrings" anymore like earlier when they discarded Kimber as a suspect. But I am hoping for a better twist when Dickie has felt like a credible suspect from the beginning that they were mostly ignoring because they were focused on the cast. 

Quote

tobert is working for cinda

Oh, wow. Yes! I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense. 

Quote

Did not call her being a serial stealer of peoples things because she finds it hard to connect with people and that she nabbed the hankie! 

I appreciate that the writers were pretty compassionate about the kleptomania rather than just making it a throwaway joke. I mean, they had all those boxes in the closet for the things she had stolen, they grounded it in emotion rather than just anxiety or covetousness, and they didn't present it as something that necessarily needed to be "cured." Pretty well done all things considered. 

Quote

Minor gripe: Mabel pretending that she was a CoBro fan when talking to Dickie at the auction.  She was a big Girl, Cop fan, so why not bring that up instead?

I thought that was strange too but maybe the auction was only for CoBro stuff?