S07.E02: Original Sin

[CheshireCat]

Quote

Prince recruits campaign support and encourages the Prince Cappers to aim high under a new directive for big swings; Chuck negotiates with a ghost from his past to advance a new agenda; Axe shares a glimpse into his new life.

Air date: Aug 20, 2023

[dwmarch]

First, big props to Stephen Kunken, who plays Spyros. I must give credit to an actor with the power to annoy me with every moment of a character's existence. Spyros is such a smug, obnoxious prick and a little of him goes such a long way.

I'm not sure what happened in the Dollar Bill plot. He had some information that he wasn't ethically allowed to act on so he had to find some other way. So he ends up being forced to reunite with Mafee who is able to make these shady trades. Once that is done, Dollar Bill and Scooter have some weird poker game involving the serial numbers from actual dollar bills and when DB figures out that Scooter has been holding five aces this whole time, respect is given and they come to an agreement about how to get along so DB can do his thing. Erm, okay. I was hoping Mafee was going to get Dollar Bill stoned, that could have been fun.

Also, did I miss something with the visit to Jock? Chuck just brought him some nice cowboy boots and all was forgiven? I don't remember a boot fetish being part of Jock's character. In fact, that's more Chuck's thing. So I guess it makes sense that Chuck would think of it but it doesn't make sense that Jock would be so happy about it. I guess jail footwear really sucks?

I laughed at Wendy calling Axe's son Gordie Gecko and Axe taking it as a compliment. I understood that reference!

Speaking of references I'm pretty sure I heard someone make one and someone else say the target audience wouldn't get it! So rare for them to hang that particular lampshade on this show! Most of the time they just spout off obscure knowledge and whomever is receiving knows exactly what they are talking about, like Chuck and Dave having a boxing match by talking about old boxers. I know who the old boxers are which is to say I have heard the names but I could not virtually spar with someone by calling out their specific moves (unless it's the classic Tyson move of biting someone's ear off).

I wonder if Axe was just testing his crew with the temptation to work for him in Europe. Obviously he intends to join them so I would imagine he was just checking to see if they have the required level of commitment to oppose Prince? I guess the allure of shiny things is a running theme through this episode.

Least realistic aspect of the episode: a man needing to do molly because he can't get wood for Piper Perabo!

Edited August 20, 2023 by dwmarch
Removed spoiler tag after airdate

[meira.hand]

30 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Speaking of references I'm pretty sure I heard someone make one and someone else say the target audience wouldn't get it!

 

Spoiler

The Judge and Chuck at the bar, when a young female admirer smiles at Chuck and the judge says: "You're a Matinee idol now". it was the response about the target audience not knowing what that meant that made it so funny.

 

[paigow]

Axe was like Dick Winters at The Eagles Nest ...

Hey Wags, wanna try this brandy I stole from Hitler?

Edited August 19, 2023 by paigow

[Ottis]

It aired, right? I watched it.

The best line in the ep for me was Wendy noting Prince was so dangerous because Prince’s MO was to view an idea as great solely because he thought of it. It got to the heart of the matter, bypassing the point that Prince does sometime have good ideas.

It took me half the episode to figure out who Gordie was. He seemed to have aged quickly.

The fact that Prince thought he and his wife could pull that charade off is nuts.

[paigow]

Streaming is early, but Showtime cable is Sunday night.

[Dianaofthehunt]

We are going to finish out the season in penance for whatever crimes/sins we have committed, husband and me.
The writer-ish writing is getting us down, and I mean to the basement. No other quality series suffered from that. Compare “Billions” to The Wire,” or “Babylon Berlin,” for example. Or any of them.

The combination of that, terrible diction, (and the apparent e.s.p. the characters all have) spells viewer punishment.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Dianaofthehunt

[catherinejane]

In the ace scenes are they actually in the same room. I know due to sad circumstances sone of the final axe scenes from before were shot via green screen but can’t work out if they are now or not. They just feel odd.

And odder that they wouldn’t just fly the actors over to uk for a week if axe needed to be there.

 

anyway I enjoyed bar that. What happened to axe’s wife and didn’t ge have a daughter? 

[txhorns79]

I was fully convinced that Prince, his wife and the campaign manager were going to end up in a threesome, so I was happily surprised they did not go there.  Though I do wish the campaign manager wasn't just another omniscient genius character that speaks like a robot, and spends his time studying pop culture references. 

And what, Chuck gets a late night call from the President to take his old job back and is back in the office a day later?  I get it, it's tv and this is Billions, but US Attorney jobs are Senate confirmed, and even a recess appointment takes more than a couple of hours to put together.       

5 hours ago, catherinejane said:

What happened to axe’s wife and didn’t ge have a daughter? 

They divorced a few seasons ago.  I think he only has two sons. 

[NeenerNeener]

I assume that was a bottle of old Pappy Van Winkle that Axe and Wags were drinking, but when I tried to pause that scene Showtime/Roku/my tv popped up the names of the actors over the bottle label.

I hope that wasn't the last time we see Damian Lewis this season, or I'm out again. Corey Stoll bores me.

[Dminches]

What happened to the old district attorney of the southern district?

In prior seasons they would make some attempt to make it seem as though things happened over a normal course of time. Now they aren't even bothering to do that. They got the doctor to admit wrongdoing in 24 hours and the POTUS to appoint and assign Chuck immediately.

The show has some entertainment value but they are asking the viewers to believe anything. 

[paigow]

54 minutes ago, Dminches said:

What happened to the old district attorney of the southern district?

Dave is going to sabotage Chuck... She will give Prince an out and grant Axe amnesty so Chuck will have to resign.

[katenm]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Dave is going to sabotage Chuck... She will give Prince an out and grant Axe amnesty so Chuck will have to resign.

That would be the sweetest revenge play against Chuck.

[aghst]

15 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was fully convinced that Prince, his wife and the campaign manager were going to end up in a threesome, so I was happily surprised they did not go there.  Though I do wish the campaign manager wasn't just another omniscient genius character that speaks like a robot, and spends his time studying pop culture references. 

And what, Chuck gets a late night call from the President to take his old job back and is back in the office a day later?  I get it, it's tv and this is Billions, but US Attorney jobs are Senate confirmed, and even a recess appointment takes more than a couple of hours to put together.       

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking, but they want Chuck to have power so they put him back as US Attorney for the high-profile SDNY.

How convenient.

But him asking for Jock's help make no sense.  US Attorneys are let go all the time when the administration changes.  I believe the new president just asks the previous guy to submit his resignation and that's usually what happens.

So when the administration changed back, it was likely that there would be a new US Attorney in the SDNY.  However, Chuck has a couple of dubious incidents in his past, so I doubt a new president would touch him with a 10-foot pole.

Or he might have given him a post at some relatively obscure agency, rather than right back in the cauldron of the SDNY, now that Prince is running for the presidency and especially if Axe, who is still a fugitive from American law enforcement, returns.

The thing with Prince and the campaign manager was ridiculous.  Most campaign managers will jump and cash Prince's check.  After all, they don't have a regular job, get a job only every 4 years.  Sure they can run smaller campaigns but nothing is as lucrative as a presidential campaign, which will these days raise and spend $1 billion.

Fact that Prince and his ex were not together shouldn't be a thing, compared to Prince, a billionaire, running as an independent.  We saw how Michael Bloomberg did, jumping into the race relatively late.

If that campaign manager had any qualms about taking Prince's money, it would be more about how well Prince could carry himself on the stump or on the debate stage, not whether he was getting back together with his estranged wife.

Not sure why she wants to play along.  I thought she was all about that life in Denver, all about climbing walls, which was going to be an Olympic sport or something.  They really haven't drawn out that character well.

Axe is a little closer to America, living in the UK?  That didn't look like a real castle for some reason.  You could see cars moving nearby, like it was just off a main road or freeway.  It was on low ground and there weren't tall defensive towers.

I guess the old gang isn't getting back together, for now.  But Axe is making plenty of money so before long, you know he will have his company and be back in the game.

Taylor last season said they wanted to hit a billion dollar in net worth.  They prioritized that more than anything, so that they would be independent, not have to answer to Prince or Axe.

So Axe tells them he could get them that money in less than two years and they walk away?

Again because stopping Prince is so urgent?

They still haven't shown why Prince is such a danger, other than Wendy saying essentially that he's too egotistic, narcissistic, solipsistic -- she doesn't use the words but what she describes fits.

I have a feeling that by the end of the season, the case for Prince as this villain and mortal threat to the country and world isn't going to be made by the writers.

[paigow]

38 minutes ago, aghst said:

Most campaign managers will jump and cash Prince's check.

Prince - an Independent - was potential career poison... Democrats & Republicans would never call again if the campaign flamed out

[Joimiaroxeu]

Of course Axe has a castle. With a moat.

I liked watching Dave in a dick-swinging contest with Chuck. She gives as good as she gets and he seems to respect her for it.

Lola Falana? Now that was a next-level out-of-the blue reference. Maybe the show was scared to use Tina Turner. Too soon.

And also of course the doctor at the Bluetooth medical device clinic was a cocaine dealer. He just had to be compromised in one of the most clichéd ways possible.

Jeffcoat better be in solitary confinement until he's released because otherwise I bet those cowboy boots will get stolen and used for a makeshift toilet so he'll never want to wear them again.

Now it's merely a matter of who's gonna slip up on the giving the appearance of a conventional marriage thing first, Prince or his wife. My money's on her.

Prince winning the Oval as an independent only seems plausible on paper. I think this show will be heading into science fiction territory if they let him get elected without pulling some backroom shenanigans.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[Broderbits]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

They still haven't shown why Prince is such a danger, other than Wendy saying essentially that he's too egotistic, narcissistic, solipsistic -- she doesn't use the words but what she describes fits.

That describes everyone in the damn show! There are no worthy presidential candidates here.

[katenm]

They really reached back for one of tonight's cultural references, "Geoffrey Holder's interest in uncola nuts."  

 

[CheshireCat]

As a couple of posts have been removed, this is a reminder to remember the Politics Policy as the show dives into presidential politics. Speculation that references real life events is just that: speculation. It does not constitute anything that has happened in an episode.

[Starchild]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:51 PM, Ottis said:

It took me half the episode to figure out who Gordie was. He seemed to have aged quickly.

He's not quite as cute as he used to be. 

 

On 8/19/2023 at 1:39 PM, Dianaofthehunt said:

We are going to finish out the season in penance for whatever crimes/sins we have committed, husband and me.
The writer-ish writing is getting us down, and I mean to the basement. No other quality series suffered from that. Compare “Billions” to The Wire,” or “Babylon Berlin,” for example. Or any of them.

The combination of that, terrible diction, (and the apparent e.s.p. the characters all have) spells viewer punishment.

Sometimes it seems that the writers are pushing the limits to see how far they can go with their similes and metaphors before some reviewer calls them out and tells them to knock it off. It's just so aggressive. Do they actually want to be obscure to younger viewers?

 

On 8/20/2023 at 7:13 AM, NeenerNeener said:

I assume that was a bottle of old Pappy Van Winkle that Axe and Wags were drinking, but when I tried to pause that scene Showtime/Roku/my tv popped up the names of the actors over the bottle label.

I hope that wasn't the last time we see Damian Lewis this season, or I'm out again. Corey Stoll bores me.

1. I hate it when the scene is obscured when you pause. Don't these people realize we pause a scene to examine it? The last thing we want is to not be able to see it. If we wanted info we'd push that button instead.
2. I read somewhere that Lewis would be in half the season's episodes, so I think we'll see him again.
3. Corey Stoll sucks.

 

18 hours ago, aghst said:

Axe is a little closer to America, living in the UK? 

...

I have a feeling that by the end of the season, the case for Prince as this villain and mortal threat to the country and world isn't going to be made by the writers.

To the first point, this confuses me. Isn't there an extradition treaty between these countries? It's not like Axe would be risking the death penalty if he was returned to face trial.

As to the second, the writers will make the point, it's just that we the audience just won't get the reference. 😉

 

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Jeffcoat better be in solitary confinement until he's released because otherwise I bet those cowboy boots will get stolen and used for a makeshift toilet so he'll never want to wear them again.

That was stupid. Jeffcoat may be in prison but he was a man of means. If he were allowed to have the boots in prison, he would have got them himself a long time ago.

 

11 hours ago, katenm said:

They really reached back for one of tonight's cultural references, "Geoffrey Holder's interest in uncola nuts."  

 

I have always loved Geoffrey Holder's voice. Like buttah.

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, Starchild said:

To the first point, this confuses me. Isn't there an extradition treaty between these countries? It's not like Axe would be risking the death penalty if he was returned to face trial.

Axe is a hero of the Ukraine War... his deal making was blessed by CIA / MI-6... so he has provisional immunity from extradition.

[Starchild]

Is that a real thing, or did they just make that up?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Is that a real thing, or did they just make that up?

Axe is now an important MI-6 asset under U.K. / EU protection. Formalized or unwritten, he is not getting extradited anytime soon. 

[Bcharmer]

On 8/21/2023 at 6:38 AM, Starchild said:

I hate it when the scene is obscured when you pause. Don't these people realize we pause a scene to examine it? The last thing we want is to not be able to see it. If we wanted info we'd push that button instead.

Me, too! But just today, I learned how to get rid of that with YouTubeTV (where, when you hit pause, the screen dims, and most of the screen is obscured with the progress bar, and title of the show). Just hit the back button, and it goes away. Ahhhhh!!!!!!!

[Starchild]

Hm, will have to try that

[Anela]

Lol, I’m halfway through this episode. When is chuck going to realize that he’s just as shitty as the men he’s going after? He keeps coming around to get the help of men he’s put in jail, or ruined his marriage in an effort to beat them.  

Edited August 29, 2023 by Anela

[boes]

I'm beyond tired -exhausted- by the oh-soo-clever comparison/references that litter every goddamed sentence because the writers are so impressed with themselves.  Nobody, ever, talks like that, and if they did, they'd be smothered with a pillow by the end of the episode.

Something I devoutly wish would happen to Chuck Rhoades by the end of the episode.

Making this character the dark hero of the story is akin to making baloney the meat of choice anytime, anywhere.

STFUAD.

[Cramps]

This is officially the episode that was so bad that I gave up halfway through and won’t be back. This show should have been put out of its misery a few years ago. It was good at first, but now the plots go around in circles, the characters are stereotypes of their former selves, or worse, do things that they never should be doing, without any real justification.
 

And every single character makes white fifty year old male bro references, instead of speaking dialogue that should fit that specific character.

I swear if they had a senile grandmother character, they’d probably have her make a reference to her wheel chair “gliding as smoothly as Jovan musk’s sponsorship of the Tattoo You tour.” 
 

I was looking forward to Damien’s return, but he and I both should have left when he first left, and not come back.